Thread 96733615

The Neighborhood Stray Edition

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>>96720673
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>White Wolf Wiki:
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>Thread Question
Have you ever seen or heard of a LARP session going horribly and comedically wrong?

>>96733615 (OP)
>Have you ever seen or heard of a LARP session going horribly and comedically wrong?
All of them, duh. What kind of thread question is this?

Big blond vampire putting down female human hunter and filling her up with his thick giant vampire cock.

>>96733658
Got any good stories then?

>>96733734
No, no, no, you got it all wrong
>female human hunter staking big blonde male vampire and then riding him amazon position

Okay chaps, how do we fix this tribe?

I'm looking to run my first chronicle soon. Is it better to design a chronicle that's more of a sandbox or more of a story?

>>96733785
Have you tried...I idk, murder?

>>96733785
They're perfect, just don't make it so all the other tribes act like they're better than them and all of their characters are villains. All Garou should be unreasonably violent, the Red Talons have a place at the table for a reason. If you want to make a heroic PC for the tribe, emphasize how the things most important for them are the voices of the animals of the natural world and the wolves, and they're willing to look for compromises that don't require human genocide.

>>96733785
Bacon usually works. Have you tried giving them bacon?

>>96733841
Story. Sandbox stuff requires more practice as a GM.

>>96733615 (OP)
Should I buy Deviant? Anyone have any insight into how it plays?

>>96733557
something like BG3 set in WoD would be amazing but paradox would never let it happen
also, games like BG3 are really outstanding by themselves and only happen once every few years

>>96733785
Red Talons are built almost specifically to make sure the Garou can never truly unite, as them united would require they work with humans more closely, and Red Talons would rather destroy any chance of that happening even if it was the only way to save Gaia.

'Fixing' them would mess with their role. Make them too reasonable and they stop being an antagonistic force. Make them more feral and they stop being feasible for keeping around.

>>96734023
Let's go 50/50. We supply the Red Talons with bacon, and the Red Talons are allowed to kill certain dog breeders and as many Pentex executives as they want.

>>96734023

Because the other Garou have pushed out almost all of the wolf in them and stood by while wolves were exterminated. Which, in case you've forgotten, would cause the Garou to stop existing, except, ironically, for a few Red Talons in India and Africa, who were close to the local Mokole and learned to become dholes and African wild hunting dogs, respectively.

They've already had a role beyond Kill All Humans. W5 spoils it by letting humans in, as if they weren't perpetually not quite the Talons' tempo, and just hating humans without having a reason why, i.e. every last one of them lost family and possibly offspring to humans, who kill them without regard, in many cases legally, and would not stop until all of the wolves were dead.

What's the average age group of wod players
just looking to see what I'm getting myself into

>>96734083
Oh no, never said Red Talon anger wasn't unfounded. But I am stating the truth in that their role within the setting's narrative are to be the anger filled disruptors that serve as the voice of the wild animal within all of them. They are the ones most likely to go against a plan due to their own anger, and them being exclusively lupis born in the old lore is there to make sure the human connection garou typically have are absent and have to be treated as such.

>>96734093
They're the reminder that humans are the ones that need to change radically. Balance cannot be achieved if humanity continues to act in selfishness, greed, and are agents of destruction. It's not enough for humans to join on the side of the Garou in fighting Pentex, the BSD, fomori or whatever other easy target there is. The need to kill the Wyrm in their head.

>>96733785
Do we need to though? It's just going to turn into W5 type of mess where everything is stamped down, shaved into a bland pile of shitpaste.

Red Talons are fine.

>>96734092
Hmm, they are probably.

Grognards: The old crowd from before 5th Edition or even 20th Edition was a thing. They are between 30 to 50 year old. Mostly ST than players. They are usually the guys who backed the Kickstarters for 20th Edition (lmao, Technocracy crushed the Traditions there)
OG Bloodlinesfags and oldfags: Usually between 20 to 30 year old. They came to the scene with Bloodlines and mainly played Revised and 20th Edition. A mix of players and ST, they are slowly turning to grognards thanks to how shit 5th Edition is and how old even 20th Edition. Some turn to 5th to try to "keep up with the times"
Newfags: They started with 5th Edition 7 years ago and didn't know any better. Usually between 16 to 25 years old, they either become defenders of the 5th Edition, or turn to older editions, usually converted by Oldfags and Grognards.

We will have a new wave with Bloodlines 2 in a week or so.

>>96734121
>The need to kill the Wyrm in their head.
True. As long as the Wyrm is in our heads we won't be able to fully embrace the Weaver.

>>96733855
There's part of the solution here.
Talons should be the path all about doing things outside of human thinking. Just about every other tribe outside of the Wendigo filters their world view through a human lens of some kind, Talons should be THE natural world and umbra faction. They see and figure out the angles nobody else can quite reach. They're the best at rooting out and dealing with the wyrm and wyld horrors in the dark places, the off-trails of america, the deep old woods of europe and russia, the stuff nature creepypastas are made of.
Also should have a "return to nature" angle they actively push on garou and even humans, but that's too elaborate to get into when I'm already over my bedtime (don't laugh kids you'll hit my age soon enough). Suffice to say make them appeal more to those who wear those faggy wolf t-shirts.
But yeah they need something more then a fuck humanity gimmick that everyone rightfully interprets as them being BSD-lite.

>>96733785
It is ridiculous that they're still around while the Get are put in the naughty corner.

>>96733615 (OP)
>Have you ever seen or heard of a LARP session going horribly and comedically wrong?
There are larps that don't end like this?

>>96734428
They're kind of already all of that, the issue is that one of their (valid) non-human outlooks is that the rest of nature would be better off if humans didn't exist.
That's the part people, and many writers, get stuck on. They're the voice of nature and human civilization has done nothing but commit genocide on nature for the past thousand years.
Genuinely look at it from the non-human perspective: They've been murdering everything in sight for Centuries and the moment you return-to-sender in a desperate attempt at self defense, Now suddenly You're the murderous psychopath for Wanting To Survive. That's why the talons are so pissed all the time, humans suggesting "Peace" after they spent their entire existence being the most wyrmish pieces of shit possible is a fucking Insult.
They're wrong, for the same reason every radical ideology is wrong, but they're wrong in an understandable way. The issue is that most readers are human.

>>96734428
>every other tribe outside of the Wendigo filters their world view through a human lens
Native Americans confirmed for non-humans BASED

>>96734519
>They're wrong...

They're not that wrong.

>>96734428
>But yeah they need something more then a fuck humanity gimmick that everyone rightfully interprets as them being BSD-lite.

I normally detest making analogies with Vampire cultural corners with the Clans, but ever since DA: Werewolf, the Red Talons have been like the Garou Nation's Malkavians, in the capacity that Malks ended up as seers and heralds of what's to come, and so, too, did the Talons. Their nonpareil connection to the wolf within while all the other Garou have viewed it as negotiable has left them with keen insight into what is hidden and what eludes others.

>>96734444
The Red Talons may hate humans, but at least they aren't RAYCISS
>t. Karim Muammar

>>96734552
It's bullshit that the Prophecy of the Phoenix wasn't given to them. Fuck Silent Striders, they aren't good for shit.

>>96734444
You know what they say. Death of the author.
>"But the authors are still alive?"
Only until the bubbles stop.

>>96734586
Reminds me of a meme format a pal made up once, went something like:

>Black Furies:
>Seething wojak: Please let me into the tribe, I'm your son!
>Yelling wojak: You're a MISTAKE, a wretched evil irredeemable MALE and you're the root of everything Wyrm! Now get out of here before you rape someone!

>Get of Fenris:
>Femchad: Let me in the tribe or I'll beat the fuck out of you
>Nordchad: Beat the fuck out of me and we'll let you in

Two newcomer questions:
1. What is this wyrm thing? It's particular look keeps popping up in illustrations but nothing statted or in the wikis seems to fit the bill. Just supposed to be a default for banes or something?
2. Do Lupus have the same violent First Change as their human counterparts?

>>96734811
fucks sake, forgot pic

How do I sabbat?

>>96734863
By being a retard.

>>96734811

The Wyrm is the spirit, as well as force, of destruction, dissolution, occasionally referred to as entropy because WW authors didn't know what that was back in the day.

Or rather, it was. The Weaver, which was like the Wyrm but toward order, form, and various degrees of stasis, became extremely cross that patterns it created would end up being torn down and recycled before it could really study them. So, it put its all into binding the Wyrm.

It succeeded. Bound as it was, the Wyrm thrashed around, uncertain of what was going on. Eventually, it began to process the breakdown in this relationship. It viewed itself as a failure, and in that moment, in tendem with its desire for freedom, its self-depracating thoughts formed the Triatic Wyrms, based on its increasingly broken perception of the Triat of which it was a part. Eater-of-Souls was the broken reflection of the Weaver that trapped it, consuming everything endlessly but never being satisfied; the formless Wyld that gave the raw essence of creation that could be shaped was seen as a ravening thing of fury, those ruminations creating the Beast-of-War.

And toward its own broken self, it produced the funhouse mirror reflection that was the Defiler Wyrm. Rather than destroy and break, it slid down the Weaver's webs, doing the one thing that the Wyrm couldn't, be free. However, it also ruined the webs where it touched them, corroding their substance and twisting them into something wrong.

This process continued with its various emotions until the Wyrm was not really there. It's even more broken, now; unable to free itself, in constant pain, and dependent on a staff of malign sycophants born of its own self-loathing to do anything. It doesn't care about how it gets free anymore; it just wants to break its bindings. What happens afterward, however, is unlikely to be its return to health, if it does it on its own.

>>96734885
>occasionally referred to as entropy because WW authors didn't know what that was back in the day
It fits tho

>>96734811
Forgot to answer second question.

Yes. In fact, wolf packs will often ostracize a lupus Garou when the change is imminent. Relations might get better afterward, if the lupus spends time mending that fence, but wolves aren't more inclined than humans to spend time around a potential hazard to life and limb. At other times, violence comes to the Garou's pack and the change happens in the heat of that, giving them a convenient different and frequently more deserving target to vent their Rage on.

Also, the look in the illo is just one example of many of forms that banes can take.

GAS THE HUMANS RACE WAR NOW GAROU PRIDE GAIA WIDE THE IMPERGIUM NEVER HAPPENED BUT THEY DESERVED IT

>>96734915

Not really. As an expression of degrees of freedom, the concept actually has more to do with the Wyld!

>>96734920
Dog fucker hands typed this post

>>96734920
Funny thing is there's like five tribes one could attribute that attitude to. Werewolves are morons who could've fixed the world a thousand times over.

>>96734920
NEVER ask a Garou what species his girlfriend is

>>96734999
According to every game the protagonists broke the world and are responsible for their own downfall and avoid doing incredibly obvious things that could help so that the setting can be tragic.

Move beyond this Thunderdome.

>>96734730
They're oddly very Australian in that sense, aren't they?

>>96735058
The Werewolves are probably the worst about it, just because of how self-righteous they are about it. They're like a stinkier version of the Order of Hermes

>>96735058
Not true, mummies are good

>>96735058
Vampires aren't really responsible for more than their curse really it was all Caine and the antediluvians. Mages also did nothing wrong

Would you eat Garg-O’s brand Friggin’ Chicken?

>>96735084
>Vampires
>not responsible for more than their curse

Which makes the world an unquestionably shittier place. The setting continually belabors that the Kindred are a substantial net negative on the world around them. It's not just that their forebears broke the world, they continually squat in place of anything that would make it better. The terrible shit that other games' protagonists did are things that Kindred keep doing.

>Mages did nothing wrong

As a start, let's talk about the Himalayan Wars.

>>96735074
Only because they end up spending massive amounts of time inactive. And even then, the Spell of Life gave rise to the version that creates Bane Mummies.

>>96735071
You should see the drama of Changeling. The fae of the Dark Ages started weaponizing baptisms and other religious rites against each other until they broke the Dreaming. And then they continue to drive the commoner vs noble divide.

>>96734121
Take one look at the Garou history and see why so many humans chose the wyrm

The Wyrm was never able to kill off a single breed, But the Garou genocided 6

Werewolf is the most moraly right splat but they allways fuck themselves and others so badly its reasonable you side with the world destroying super company

>>96735239
I mean, they did that because of the Wyrm. The War of Rage was orchestrated by the Wyrm, the Garou might have fallen for the manipulation and the trickery, but it literally wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the Wyrm turning the Fera against each other. It's what the Wyrm does, he makes use of the tools that he has at hand to cause as much death and destruction as possible, he can't just send a legion of Banes across the Gauntlet to invade the physical world on a whim.

Do the Dreamspeakers cover western spiritualists and mediums who deal with ghosts rather than animistic nature spirits or would that better fit some other Tradition?

>>96735283
You can do that, just talks a bit with your ST

>>96735283
Depends on whether your instruments and paradigm are more compatible with theirs, or with some other tradition.
Like, the hermetics probably have a house that deals with ghosts, I imagine choristers have some exorcists, etc.

>>96734885
I thought when the Weaver went mad it tried to bind the Wyld first but couldnt trap it so it bound the Wyrm instead. Im a vtmfag so my mileage with other splats varies. Also isnt there one apocalypse scenario where the perfect metis would actually restore the wyrm to its former self?

>>96735306
Yes but when it comes to Triatic lore, the Wyrm gets 60% of the attention, the Weaver gets 30% and the Wyld gets 10%. The Wyld's a non-entity that doesn't really do much in the setting as a mover or shaker, so it can be brushed over without much of a problem.
>Also isnt there one apocalypse scenario where the perfect metis would actually restore the wyrm to its former self?
The "best end" to the Weaver Ascendant scenario involves liberating the Wyrm so that it can destroy the Pattern Web before the Weaver dominates the entire Tellurian. This snaps both of them out of their madness, at the cost of enacting a hard reset of the World of Darkness that deletes civilisation and everything supernatural except for spirits.

Werewolffags are almost as annoying as magefags
Almost

>>96735283
In 1st edition, yes. After 2nd they became the Minoriteam.

>>96735353
Sorry that a dog raped you.

>>96735370
Don't you have children to molest, furfaggot?

how do you quantify banality
i feel like the very act itself is inherently banal

>>96735353
Honestly, if the World of Darkness was more popular, it would really help to have its own general for each splat. Having a bunch of very different games sharing the same thread because they share the same system and the same base setting just leads to a whole lot of bitching and moaning.

>>96735282
Everything is blamed on the Wyrm and no responsibility is placed on the Werewolves
>Maybe the neolithic rage bezerkers could have saved Gaia by not killing allies >BUT NOOOOO we need to fight something, driving the genocided humans and Fera to the Wyrm
If every one of your 30+ EX girlfriend/boyfriend's was manipulative, abusive,rotten there comes a point you must ask
>Maybe it's me at fault

>>96735412
Nah, werewolves are to blame for the War of Rage but it's retarded to think that they just did it because they wanted to with zero manipulation from the Wyrm. It's almost like there's a middle ground between "werewolves are innocent dindus and it's all the Wyrm's fault" and "werewolves are solely responsible for everything bad ever."

>>96735411
I would also put the onus on WW/OP/Paradox for over emphasizing the metaplot and clearly playing favorites

>>96735411
I think that's what sets this general and /co/ threads apart from DnD and PF in a good way, the arguments and loredumps/memes are fun

I have never had a tabletop role playing experience.

>>96735440
If you say so. I think that at the very least, it's clear that the CofDfags and VtMfags would rather have their own generals. Can't go more than a couple of days without some rambling about the superiority of CofD or why the rest of WoD should be written to be more like VtM (read: more like Bloodlines).

>>96735465
>>96735472
what are you even doing here then

>>96735423
Nah the books had the Wyrm help accelerate what was already brewing
If they didn't get what they wanted then they took it by force
The Wereboars were Genocided only after helping the bears escape
They killed,ate and enslaved every single one with the rest becoming skull pigs

It's surprising how little was required
One dead wolf at the boarder
One powerful wolf being told that he can bring his son back but the bears tell him that's impossible
Bats using furry blood magic
Snakes existing
Bulls having cool trinkets
That shit with black tooth
And can't forget the Bunyip

>>96735486
BL and HtP

>>96735486
VTMB and HTP

>>96735507
>it's surprising that a major diplomatic incident orchestrated by the god of all things evil led to war
lmao

>>96735486
i just lurk because it's the only way i can get invested in a setting i think is really cool
AND i enjoy asking stupid questions too

>>96735562
asking stupid questions is part of the experience

>>96735486
It’s really easy to bait fa/tg/uys and this is pretty much the only social interaction I can legally have.

>>96735528
>god of all things evil
The Wyrm isn't evil. The Wyrm represents the pressure by which evolution occurs. A series of tests of character were set out before the Garou and they failed every single time.

>>96735579
>this is pretty much the only social interaction I can legally have.
Are you in house arrest, or something?

>>96735411
>it would really help to have its own general for each splat.

Even if it were more popular, it'd be a real dick move to add 5+ generals to the board. Not to mention, how would that work across game versions? Vampire general would need to decide if it's just Vampire the Masquerade or if it's the Vampire general and Requiem's allowed. Is V5 allowed? Not to mention only three gamelines at best would be able to support regular generals, everyone else would have to go kick sand.

As much as I may not care for every gameline, or even most of them, staying together is just the correct play.

>>96735588
I’m a pathological misanthrope who instigates fights in real life because I’m that much of an aggrotard asshole.

>>96735606
seems perfect for a W:tA player

>>96735528
It usually only takes one or none at all
That's his point

>>96735507
>It was already going to happen!
>Message that would have commanded dingus bloodthirsty underling of a Garou king to stand down disappeared because of a corrupted Nagah
>Corrupted Nagah also the one to kill the king's son

There were certainly some volatile personalities, but to suggest that it was absolutely inevitable and always what was going to happen is just believing BSD copium a few millennia before they existed.

>>96735587
>The Wyrm represents the pressure by which evolution occurs

Not even remotely.

>Tests of character

That's not what a Diabolus Ex Machina is, anon.

>>96735606
lupine hands typed this post

>>96735631
>Not even remotely.
The Wyld is growth. Unchecked, it is cancer.
The Weaver is order. Unchecked, it strangles.
The Wyrm is opposition. Unchecked, it overwhelms.

>>96735606
well at least you’re honest

Can a vampire drain shell fish for blood

>>96735681
If your ST allows it, but I’ve only allowed players to sippy on warm-blooded mammals.

>>96733615 (OP)
Drawfag here, with another sketch. This time, Drones. I felt that their portrayal in the sourcebooks to be sort of underwhelming. Here, I imagined them as looking very much like mannequins, even down to having plastic-looking skin. Their insides have also become solid plastic, one single mass all through. They lose their eyes, but they don't need them anymore anyways.
I felt this made them very sinister, and very distinct from Fomori and Gorgons.
Anyways, hope you like the sketch! More to come with this and my other peices!

>>96735681
>>96735703
Vampires can drain anything with blood but shellfish are a odd area
I'd say yes just because it's funny

>>96735681
Are you playing a Mariner Gangrel?

>>96735283
You could do that but generally no. Mediums are more of an Orphan/Euthanatos/Hollow Ones thing. Occasionally some other traditions. If you wanna go full ghostbuster instead, Etherite is the way to go.

>>96735606
You would make a great garou.

>>96735606
god imagine how fucking fat this dudes cock is haha

>>96735725
Very good! Let us know if you want requests or ideas for future drawings. It's always a joy to have someone creating OC.

>>96735851
Oh, come on now, we both know the true relation between anger issues and dick size

>>96735873
not in my otoume vns desu ne

>>96735085
There are Banes in that shit, so no.

>>96735921
BUT THAT’S SOME GOOD FUCKIN’ CHICKEN
I mean
FRIGGIN’

Thonking about HtP I feel like every single "Villain" Splat Group in Norfolk is gonna have at least one "Is this guy a parody of himself or what?" character in it.
>Sabbat: Ape-Boy
>Pentex: idk
>Slasher Org: idk

>>96734863
There are so many disparate groups within the Sabbat barely united due to their mutual hatred and/or interest in the downfall of the Camarilla that there is no one path to Sabbating.

The one commonality most Sabbat have is their inhumanity, or rather, their belief in their own inhumanity. There is little the Sabbat does that is actually inhuman, look thoroughly enough in history you can find some mortal person, government, or religion that managed to match or even surpass them. To join the Sabbat you have to be fine with serving alongside and even aiding people who torture random people for fun.

Broadly, there's three types of Sabbat. Sabbat that have some sort of copium to justify the mountains of contradictions that exist within and even make up the core of the Sabbat. Sabbat that genuinely believe this shit. And Sabbat that are just out for themselves and view, for one reason or another, the Sabbat as the best route to get what they want. Even within those three broad archetypes, you are dealing with the same Sect that has an inquisition which is designed to enforce strict orthodoxy, but also more infernalists and lilith worshippers than the Camarilla, not to mention the fifth column that is the Black Hand. Accept the dumpster fire, embrace the dumpster fire. Be the dumpster fire. That is how you Sabbat.

>>96735991
They aren’t parodies, they’re just Bri’ish. Very confusing, I know…

>>96735725
They're supposed to not attract attention, anon. That's the entire point. Being litral plastic would make them more like a fomor made with a corrupted Weaver spirit.

>>96735645
You've still failed to prove your point.

>>96735725
Looks good.

>>96736014
I mean they huff their factions copium pipe like it's going out of style, but they barely know anything about anything and are likely either a Shovelhead (Ape-boy) or the Factional Equivalent (For Pentex this is probably Blair)

>>96735486
I treat it like WHF, I'm here for the lore

>>96735725
Literally me?!

>>96733615 (OP)
>Have you ever seen or heard of a LARP session going horribly and comedically wrong?
OH BOI DO I HAVE A STORY FOR YOU
>Have three players
>Have a friend with four other players
>And she has a friend with three players
>Our chronicles do fit quite well together so we decide to have a few small crossovers. One day we decide we'd like to do a big one, and LARP seemed fitting
>Another friend is throwing a goth party at an abandoned building he's turning into a nightclub
>Fucking perfect. Ask permission to have our LARP there. He turns it into a vampire (generic) themed night to help us "blend in." He keeps it somewhat exclusive with himself and his gf as DJs, BYOB, only a bit over two dozen people outside of us
>Genuinely cool place too. Four floors, spacious, spooky. He keeps the party on the first two floors and allows us to use the other two if we want
>We get there before the start of the party to sort things out, everyone seems to be cool with each other. Keep the session's plot thin and instead let the players roam and lead the story. STs are only there as referees.
>Then as the party starts and everyone "arrives" in character I get a bad feeling
>The kind of feeling where you know shit is gonna hit the fan but you can't predict how
>Gangrel and Brujah start by hanging out by themselves, the two Ventrues strike a "friendship", Giovanni and Toreador hang out in a corner, the other women make their own circle
>Toreador starts hitting on the Giovanni. Aggressively.
>Ventrue failure introduces Ventrue pugilist to Gangrel and tries to play them against each other by appealing to their ego
>Brujah befriends Malk and Ravnos, they start making jokes and having what seems like wholesome fun
>In truth, Malk and Ravnos immediately bonded over wanting to inflict grief on others and are measuring the other players to find weak spots
>Gangrel doesn't fall for Ventrue's manipulation, but the other Ventrue kinda does and starts malding on his own

>>96734519
>They're the voice of nature and human civilization has done nothing but commit genocide on nature for the past thousand years.
Thing is, nature has done nothing but commit genocide on nature since nature existed. I'm not really fond of the retarded faux-empathy in saying "nature" would have any view except might makes right and survival of the fittest, let alone one based on entirely, 100% man-made conceptions of things like "self defense" or a "right to live" or anything of that sort.

>>96735507
It is truly funny to read multiple Breed books and they are all contradictory to each other.
And I am not just talking about origin tales.
They are all like "We were innocent", "It's all Garou's fault", "We never practiced Impergium"

I know it's all in perspective writing but it is hilarious.

>>96736394
>Ventrue pugilist starts telling other people, unrelated to the LARP, that the Gangrel is a coward. He gets some seriously weird looks. I try to intervene but it's a bit too late, the other attendees start avoiding him.
>Brujah tries to defuse the situation and offers to fight him instead (almost like flirting)
>He looks down on her and mocks her, saying he would beat her into the ground in seconds
>Other attendees hear them and pull her away, believing he's a violent misogynist. One even asks the host to kick him out, but both him and Brujah explain we're doing a roleplay thing
>We (STs) pull him away and ask him to tone it down a bit. Tell him to go dance a bit on the first floor. Have the other Ven keep him company
>Maeghar and Gangrel start bonding over their pagan stuff. I look away for a moment and when I look back they're sloppy kissing in the corner and he has his hands all over her thighs
>Malk, Ravnos and Setite go to the third and fourth floor to do things with the other STs, dark McGuffin things
>Toreador keeps staring at the two lovebats making out, green with envy
>Tries to hit on the Giovanni even harder
>Mind you, Toreador player is a woman, cosplaying as a man. It's a good cosplay ngl but still, she's a woman
>Giovanni is a gay man. The character is gay, so "in character" he's into the Toreador. OoC he's also a gay man, so he makes it very clear he's not going to make out with her but says they could pretend to do it touching only above the waist and without kissing
>Toreador is not pleased. At all.
>Brujah tries to defuse the situation by pulling them into the dance floor and then offering them a blood pack (aliexpress bags filled with cherry vodka jelly we prepared for the event)
>Awkward as fuck but god bless that Brujah girl, she's trying her best to play a role she didn't sign up for
>Ventrues chill out. Pugilist meets a girl, he explains the LARP thing and instead of cringing she plays along

>>96736456
<<<GANGREL GANG>>> CAN’T STOP WINNING

>>96736456
>"She's a worthy rival on the dancefloor, so I can feed on her." She laughs her ass off but continues playing along, let's him "bite" her and they end up making out
>Ventrue failure is now alone so he tries to go look for Gangrel
>He's too busy dancing with the Maeghar. Tongue dancing that is
>Tries to look for the Brujah, they dance a bit and he tries to pull a move on her
>Gets shot down in such an awkward way that makes both the grumpy Toreador fujoshi and the Giovanni laugh a bit
>Ventrucels, when will they learn
>Malk, Ravnos and Setite return from the third floor
>Malk feels bad for the Ventrucel so she pulls him away for a moment to dance with her
>She starts whispering something in his ear
>This is the moment where I should've noticed things were going to end up really, really wrong
>By this point everyone has consumed vodka jelly packs so their judgement may not be the best
>Myself and the other STs included because we also had some edibles
>Gangrel and Maeghar stop eating their faces for a moment so she can go to the bathroom
>Ravnos pulls Gangrel for a moment and takes him to the third floor
>She involves him into the whole dark mcguffin plot thing. Apparently the Setite is guarding the "Idol of Aion", which due to the pagan and time-related name instantly gets him interested
>Right, forgot to mention the Gangrel is learning fucking Temporis (I regret letting him pick that instead of Celerity every single day)
>She convinces him to seduce the Setite to let him pass
>Ravnos says she'll keep the Maeghar company and make sure she doesn't find out
>Gangrel tries to seduce the Setite
>It works
>It works a little too well and they end up making out
>Meanwhile the Ravnos goes back to the Maeghar and makes sure she's entertained. The two hang out with the Brujah, Toreador and Giovanni for a while, shooting the shit and having seemingly innocent fun
>Toreador is still malding over not getting her fujo fantasy fulfilled

>>96736516
>Maeghar, in character, starts throwing shade at the Toreador and being generally a petty bitch
>Toreador calls her out on her bullshit. "You were presenting your ass to a mongrel-I mean, gangrel, you just met tonight like the animal in heat his kind pursues and I'm the whore?"
>Maeghar tries to say she simply found her one true love
>Brujah noticed this, but when she said it the Ravnos immediately smiled. Not a nice smile. Not a mocking smile. It was the kind of smile that you'd expect a fucking anime villain to pull
>This is the moment where colder heads should've intervened. Sadly I was making out with my ST friend and the other ST was vomiting outside the building because the edibles hit him like a truck
>Brujah and Giovanni intervened, tried to keep things peaceful and mostly succeeded
>Ravnos went off to dance on her own for a bit, but quickly joined Ventrue and Malk
>The three danced together for a while. His face was one of pure bliss and happiness. Like, seriously, he felt like the king of the world getting that much female attention
>Ravnos eventually pulled him for a kiss and started making out
>Malk left them to look for the Setite. She found her and Gangrel tasting each other's tonsils
>She pretended to be shocked, but pulled both of them down to the party floors. Sent the Setite to spend some time with the Brujah and the rest. Isolated the Gangrel
>"Hey, I won't snitch on you. In fact, I'm gonna help you make sure Maeghar loves you. I'm her friend, so I know her very well."
>She takes him to his car, where she's keeping a preset box. It's a nice cute dress she bought for her friend, but she will give it to him because she just wants to see her friend happy
>They come back to the party, a lot of the attendees start leaving around this time
>Gangrel gives the Maeghar the present, she's delighted. In character, she's apparently never received a present so to her this is borderline the equivalent of an engagement ring
>shit is about to go down

>>96736578
I’m certain everything will turn out well for our Gangrel protagonist.

>>96736578
>Malk pretends to be super happy for her friend and takes her to the third floor so she can put on the dress
>Maeghar is drunk. Malk is not.
>Maeghar puts on the dress and at the moment doesn't realize it's at least one size, maybe two, too small and it makes her look fat
>Remember that detail about her being self conscious about her weight?
>This Malkavian piece of shit PLANNED IT IN ADVANCE and purposefully got her a dress that was too small
>Meanwhile, the Ravnos asked the Ventrue to wait a bit
>She drags the Gangrel to the dance floor and starts grinding on him
>Right in front of the Setite and Ventrue
>Both are seething
>She locks eyes with the Ventrue
>And starts making out with the Gangrel
>At that moment, Maeghar and Malk come down
>Maeghar looks heartbroken
>Malk has a massive shit eating grin on her face
>Brujah and Giovanni look at each other in panic and give each other the perfect "oh shit" face. Toreador just bursts out laughing.
>Ventrue fighter is too busy making out with that other girl, who is giggling way too much and at this point I'm convinced she's stoned out of her mind and that's why she didn't cringe
>Maeghar wants to get violent with the Ravnos
>And so does the Setite
>Ravnos goes for the jugular and makes fun of the Maeghar's small dress
>Toreador joins in and calls her a goth Ms Piggy
>Brujah has given up on trying to be the peacemaker and is desperately looking for alcohol
>Gangrel wants to get between them but is promptly told to shut the fuck up by the Maeghar because otherwise she's going to pull out his prostate and make him eat it
>Before Gangrel can respond he gets interrupted by the Ventruecel who wants to fight him
>At this point, the party is pretty much over and the only people remaining are us larpers, the owner and his gf, and like three of their friends who are just watching the goth telenovela with a mix of horror and curiosity

>>96736625
Next time you should type this all out in Notepad first so you can just copy-paste with the only delay being the post timer.

>>96736625
>Owner and Ventrue pugilist explain the situation as a sort of improvisational theater. Which only makes them even more interested in the drama.
>Ventrue's squeeze is still giggling like a retard on helium
>So Maeghar, Setite and Ravnos want to beat each other up. Toreador also wants to gang up on Maeghar so he immediately takes the side of the Ravnos. Ventrucel wants to fuck up Gangrel.
>Ventrue pugilist decides to snap back into character and join the fight. He's happy to 2v1 the Gangrel.
>Meanwhile the Malk is having the time of her life, Giovanni is trying to console Brujah and the third ST is MIA (actually out cold in the back of his car)
>Owner's gf asks me if they're actually going to fight because she's ready to call the police
>That's my queue to stop exercising benefits with my ST friend and be the referees we were supposed to be
>We accept it's gonna be a combat scene no matter what, so we do the whole "deck of cards" thing to resolve combat
>I would describe it as the badass "in-narrative" brawl it was meant to be in our imagination but that'd take like six more posts and I have to wake up in like three hours to go play warhammer
>The result
>Maeghar and Setite vs Ravnos and Toreador
>Ravnos beaten so bad she went into torpor
>Toreador was one hit away from joining her
>Setite beat up Maeghar into submission
>Toreador took the last bit of his strength to send her into torpor
>Gangrel sent into torpor
>But not before cutting one of the pugilist's arms and leaving the other one close to torpor
>Malk enjoyed the show and forces the Setite to stand down, not like she was in a condition to keep going
>Brujah tries to fight Malk but is backstabbed by the Giovanni, who is still protective of his "little schizo sister"
>We officially end the session here, with every character going their own way. Every gang has at least one standing member, who drags the unconscious ones away with the help of unseen ghouls.

>>96736664
>The result
>Three games fractured because the players no longer trust each other
>Friendships jeopardized
>The owner asked me to never try that stupid shit again at his place
>The audience thought the "fight" was cringe because we didn't even pretend to punch each other
>The giggling retard remains giggling to this day
>I'm never doing LARP again
>>96736650
You're right.

>>96735587
>The Wyrm isn't evil.
I haven't seen bait this good in ages.

>>96736664
>>96736672
Cringe. Not even cringekino. I can’t believe… I refuse to believe a Gangrel could… His Protean 2?? His Fortitude?? Was this SOCIALIZING HIGH-HUMANITY FUCKER STALLING TO SPLURGE ON TEMPORIS?!

I’m gonna throw up. I can’t… I’m fucking… FUCKING CAINE!! Animalism and Enduring Beasts?! I’m gonna… I need to go beat my ghoul. Oh my sweet Ennoia, what a humiliation…

>>96734920
Ah yes, because provoking the second global Inquisition would be such a GREAT idea. I see absolutely no reasons as to why it would go horribly wrong.

>>96736695
I genuinely believe he would've wiped the floor with them if he fought them 1on1.

>>96736694
It isn't though, it's just overactive

>>96736763
this furfag was robbed of a w

>>96736772
>It isn't though

>>96735084
>Vampires aren't really responsible for more than their curse really it was all Caine and the antediluvians.
Basically anyone moral who becomes a vampire would either step out into the sun and ash themselves at the first opportunity or feed exclusively on animal blood for the rest of their miserable existence. Vampires are literal parasites.

>>96734920
Found the Ratkin false flag.

Just got invited to my first ever vtm game(dark ages technically but whatever)
What am I in for

>>96736806
This is racist against India sir.

>>96736806
Kek, Warhammer skaven tier plot

>Friends ask me to run VtM
>Friends reject my favored by Night setting (fair, race violence was pretty prevalent in it)
>Friends reject my mind rot slop that utilizes non-WoD settings
>Friends request NYC by Night
>Friends reject Modern Night
>Friends request chronicle set in the mid 90s
>Check NYC by Night
>It assumes you start play after the Battle for New York, and all of the characters are based off of having survived that
>It doesn't even provide stats for the Prince of the requested time (because she exists to feed Sabbat her mass embraced childer and get decapitated in '98/'99)

I need a primogen council, sabbat packs, and others. Hit me with your suggestions, anons.

Would it be correct to assume WoD5 is coming to the end of it's lifespan? Bloodlines 2 is releasing soon and Paradox wants nothing more to do with the tabletop.

None of the WoD5 lines lit the world on fire and it seems like a good time to start work on a new edition to wipe the slate clean.

>>96736873
Or, and this is a wild take so bear with me, they just release worldbuilding guides for the base ruleset of v20 so that you can make your own worlds, factions, clans/ tribes/ etc., and we are not stuck in a shitty forward marching timeline that doesn't bring anything of true value much like the D&D edition setting updates.

>>96736872
Celebros has a character sheet. I’m not bothering to spoon feed you any further since you haven’t done your research and not even I am muscular enough to carry your fat ass.

>>96736899
How is that any different from just running V20 as is?

>>96736909
*Calebros

>>96735725
Looking forward to more art!

>>96736809
You know Skyrim?
That but with more politics, gothic aesthetics and less bugs.
See image for Dark Ages shilling.

>>96736909
Calebros was not listed as Primogen in the 90s, and is only Prince pro tempore for two years, as he resigned months before 9/11. Maybe if you were literate, you'd know I was asking about Prince Michaela and her court, you worthless fucking retard! Please kill yourself and improve the world.

>>96736916
Most of you impotent faggots shrieked with rage when Baroviafag suggested running the system of VtM in literally any other setting than shitty edgy real world. If you like TES vampires, you like VtM in literally any setting outside of edgy real world bullshit, since that is explicitly what TES vampires were.

>>96735991
>Thonking about HtP
Harry the Pottering?

>>96735991
Ape-Boy was a sincere False. Pyotr was a sincere True. The parody of the Sabbat was Shitbeard.

>>96737061
Calebros served until 2005 you silly billy.

>>96736872
Malkavian Prince who's weird as shit as a cover for being a machiavellian mastermind. Elysium is "within 20 feet of me while I sprint around the city at night."

>>96737122
Not per NYC by Night (we aren't using the trash that is v5). He retired in the summer of 2001. It was explicit. They wrote a whole foreward about 9/11, since the book released 3 days after. But, that literally does not matter, since the game is sent in the 90s, almost a decade before a Nosferatu is permitted to assume praxis in an important metroplex.

>>96737141
Oh, my mistake :^)

>>96737124
Already have a prince, thanks, since that is a canon event. And I reject fishmalks on principle.

>>96737159
WELL FUCK YOU TOO THEN BITCH

>>96736873
>Would it be correct to assume WoD5 is coming to the end of it's lifespan?
That's very unlikely.

Some more thoughts about a World of Darkness CRPG

>multiple splats are playable, but limited within splats to make it feasible
>2 or 3 "normal" vampire clans, one or two mage traditions, 2 garou tribes, 2 changeling kiths, hunters are just hunters
>you can choose special traits at character creation that change the game like being a garou kinfolk if you are a mage or a hunter
>NPCs will change their reaction to you based on your character. Garou will always attack on site if you are a vampire, no exceptions. They will harass you if you are a kinfolk mage in a way they won't if you are just a normie mage

Checked the mega and found like 10 Technocracy book, what's the 'correct' one?

>>96737224
The Syndicate is the only correct one, the others are pure hypotheticals.

>>96734193
>Mostly ST than players
Stop, anon. The truth hurts me! ;_;

>>96734121
Why don't we just kill them instead? Humans are out for humans, noy gayia.

>>96737223
I think an MMO would work better overall. Players can play as any splat, every splat is fighting every other splat, just set it all in a big city with different zones and hoods controlled by specific splats.

>>96737255
Speak for yourself, real humans fight for total weaver supremacy

>>96737266
Mages collapse the server, what now?

The only games that matter are Vampire and Pimp. all the other games aren't important and their lore is made up nonsense

>>96737266
MMO is a fundamentally different kind of game and would be much less about the world and story by its very design

>>96736013
>the fifth column that is the Black Hand
What is their deal? I think I've read three or four stories of what they do and each was different and contradictory

How come the Followers of Set don’t seem to get as much hate as the Tremere or Tzimisce?

>>96737255
Humans have been out for themselves, and now they're the toys of the Weaver and Wyrm. Enjoy the endless ai slop as you cough out your lungs and scarf down garbage.

>The Sabbat are objectively correct in their belief that the Antediluvians are gonna wake up and end the world soon
>However, they're also a bunch of absolute loons who do whatever the fuck they want, zero compunctions about treating humans like less than dirt or breaking the Masquerade, which ironically causes more conflict between vampires which accelerates the awakening of the Antes
>even when the Antes actually wake up, the Sabbat all just go full retard and berserker rage charge at the ancestors rather than, you know, having a plan to actually kill them, they're wiped out instantly
Excellent villains

>>96737329
Humans have a higher standard of living now than at any point in the past. Beats being a hunter gatherer who is murdered by werewolves or dying in childhood due to easily treatable illnesses. We will crush all these spirits as well

>>96736763
... What the fuck is this discipline spread?

>>96737341
This is what happens when someone has balance-itis and want to be good at everything (they end up being good at nothing)

>>96737335
They are so useless it is adorable.

>>96737305
They're technically meant to be the Sabbat's secret police, a sect within a sect ensuring that the antediluvians don't take control of the sect, originally founded by (if I recall) a whole bunch of Warrior caste Assamite Antitribu.
Instead, they secretly got infiltrated by the antediluvian worshipping cult known as the True Black Hand (or Tal'Mahe'Ra)
The jokes write themselves.

>>96737321
Simple, no one gives a shit about the snakes.

>>96737341
A gangrel who seems to have been snacking on a LOT of Trujah

>>96735725
Amazing workpiece as always, anon!

>>96736394
>>96736456
>>96736516
>>96736578
>>96736625
>>96736664
>>96736672
Your mistake was allowing substance abuse during the LARP. That's one of the first rules in the books.
Also, too bad shit went down the drain 'cause having an amazing place like that to LARP could have lots of potential for future games.

>>96737061
Wrong. People got mad at Baroviafag for doing bait&switch with his players, even though players didn't mid and had fun anyway.

>>96737338
>degenerates into a fomori
Ok wyrmfood

Humans have unironically won more victories against the wyrm than the garou. Human factions have stopped all sorts of demons and world ending scenarios. The garou can’t do shit because they are poorly designed bioweapons.

A good example is that some human mages can actually dance the black spiral without being corrupted. Garou can’t

>>96737404
To add to this: Humana falling to the weaver is more plausible than them falling to the wyrm. Humans are very weaverish but most of them don’t desire absolute stasis, just control of the environment to eliminate threats and improve QOL. The weaver is more tempting to humans than the wyrm

>>96737329
HITmark, erase this reality deviant for insulting static reality.

>>96737404
And yet humans are powerless to stop the Wyrm and are it's prime recruitment candidates. How many other species produce Nephandi? Red Talons once again are right.

>>96737426
Black spiral dancers are basically their version of nephandi. All sorts of creatures and spirits have fallen to the wyrm. A better example would be which creatures have altered the very nature of reality to be more banal and static. That is why I say the weaver is a bigger threat to humans than the wyrm

>>96737223
I don't have a working PC at the moment but if I ever got one I'm thinking of tinkering with KoboldAI to convert Bloodlines to an AI Dungeon style game. More clans available, more freedom and reactivity but in text form
I think it'd work well

>>96737404
>Humans have unironically won more victories against the wyrm than the garou.
No? The modern world has done nothing but empower the Wyrm more and more. Humanity is feeding its own apocalypse, blind to the cost of its greed. That's the entire point of WtA

>>96737463
We already lost. We have no choice but to ACCELERATE.

>>96737224
>OG Technocracy Convention Books:
They tell you about the Conventions inside the Technocracy. They are based on the 1st Edition Technocracy. If you want to run a cartoon evil Technocracy, who by all logic should have imploded, go for.
TLDR: Evilest Technocracy but also the most powerful. Ironically, people still supported them more than the Traditions.
>Guide to the Technocracy and Revised Convention Books:
The Guide gives general guidance on the Technocracy and Convention books are updated versions of the previous ones.
They are from the 2nd Edition and have what many consider the standard Technocracy. Do they do evil shit? Yes. Do they do good shit? Yes.
>Technocracy Reloaded
It's basically an updated version of Guide to the Technocracy. Same as before and while it assumes 2nd Edition's stance on the Technocracy, it is more agnostic and left to ST to determine whatever Technocracy eats babies, saves babies, are doing their best or fallen to Nephandi etc.
It's not the worst M20 book, certainly not when Gods&Monsters and Lore of the Traditions exists, but you might be better off with Guide to the Technocracy and Revised Convention Books.

>>96737475
Nick Land inspired virtual adept

>>96737475
Black Spiral Dancer spotted.

Don't supposed anyone has uploaded Night Horrors: Primordial Peerage to any of the folders yet?

>>96737488
>>96737501
THE FOREST BURNS FOR NEW TREES TO GROW
THE MOUNTAIN CRUMBLES SO NEW PEAKS CAN RISE
THE VALLEY WIDENS SO NEW RIVERS CAN RUN

SLAUGHTER THE MOTHER SO HER DAUGHTER MAY BE BORN FROM THE CAESAREAN SECTION
A DAUGHTER BORN OF WAR AND STRIFE
A DAUGHTER BORN OF BLOOD AND DEATH
A DAUGHTER THAT IS A WORTHY BRIDE FOR WARRIORS
INSTEAD OF A CODDLING MOTHER WHO BROUGHT ABOUT HER OWN SPOILAGE BY SPOILING HER CHILDREN

>>96737200
How long do WoD editions typically last for? V5 was 2018, so that's 7 years. IIRC there were 3 editions published in the 90's.

>>96737061
>Most of you impotent faggots shrieked with rage when Baroviafag suggested running the system of VtM in literally any other setting than shitty edgy real world. If you like TES vampires, you like VtM in literally any setting outside of edgy real world bullshit, since that is explicitly what TES vampires were.

What the fuck are you on about?

>>96737552
There's no real 'usually'. Three editions came out during the 90's. 1st edition went over very fast into 2nd, revised came out at the turn of the millennium, then 20th like 11 years later.
Paradox especially has been ungodly slow with releases compared to old WW (which, to be fair, had absolute garbage editing, especially during revised, but Paradox now tends to overedit shit instead) so don't expect them to just release a new edition anytime soon.

The Technocracy isn't truly scientific. If they were truly scientific they would be trying to figure out how to shape paradigm in whatever convenient ways they wish, and not just to to infiltrate the traditions. A true mage scientist would figure out how to wear paradigms like clothes, or use them like tools, no different from other materials.

inb4 "but muh avatar is above your science!"

Fuck off?

>>96737444
>Black spiral dancers are basically their version of nephandi
The gap between those two is so vast that it's an outrageous comparison. BSD are just shitty Garou. Nephandi are on a level of their own in terms of horror. Don't mistake the Weaver currently being ascendant as mark of its supremacy. Every second, it's foundations are being chewed and dissolved by Nidhogg.

>>96737610
I mean yeah that’s because mages are the most powerful splat. They change the nature of reality. The BSD are just as corrupt but less powerful than mages. There aren’t that many nephandi though.

The wyrm does love to corrupt mages. The books give a guide for selling your soul as a mage and make it clear that this is really bad because of what mages are, and the wyrm will pay much more than it would for a random soul

>>96737607
>The Technocracy isn't truly scientific. If they were truly scientific they would be trying to figure out how to shape paradigm in whatever convenient ways they wish, and not just to to infiltrate the traditions. A true mage scientist would figure out how to wear paradigms like clothes, or use them like tools, no different from other materials.
Anon, paradigm is belief. Willworking is based on truly believing in it and putting your Will behind that Belief.

It's like asking someone speaking English to suddenly speak German and then French. Or someone to truly believe in Flat Earth and then nope, truly believe normal Earth and then truly believe that we are on top of a boar that is on top of a Turtle.

Sure, the closer you are to Ascension, the more you can discard your paradigm but 99% of Mages aren't there.

>>96737583
ok cool.

>>96737656
A lot of the Enlightened Scientists working for the Technocracy have no idea they are doing magick. That’s how the Technocracy wants it, they think they’re getting “sparks of inspiration” and are told to report strange voices in their head to their technocracy assigned therapist. There’s no such thing as an “avatar” that’s just your inner genius at work.

>>96737607
Paradigms are specifically stronger than that. A flat earther could still have a scientific paradigm, as long as they can justify to themselves they got that result from scientific methods. Otherwise etherites and VAs wouldn't be able to do magic at all.

>>96737656
>Anon, paradigm is belief.
Psychology? Cool.
>Willworking is based on truly believing in it and putting your Will behind that Belief.
So shove an Avatar into a simulation chamber and fool it into believing anything you fucking want.
>It's like asking someone speaking English to suddenly speak German and then French.
Retarded analogy. It's still possible. An AI can do it.
>Sure, the closer you are to Ascension, the more you can discard your paradigm but 99% of Mages aren't there.
Sounds like a you/them problem. Science is materialistically detached from your failures. If you can't or don't know how to start a fire you buy a pocket lighter.

>>96737673
>Paradigms are specifically stronger than that.
Doesn't matter. Successor theories are inevitable. The sound barrier was "explicitly stronger than that", once. Eventually relativity as we know it will be transcended. Exoticer and exoticer physics. The Hermetics actually did this already by transcending the Pillars into Spheres. What comes next?

>>96737364
>People got mad at Baroviafag for doing bait&switch with his players

What was the bait and switch? He offered to run a game for his players. Then did so? Do you expect all plot relevant twists to be preapproved by the troupe before the game starts?

How would the World Of Darkness fare if XCOM took place there too? Would mutons be a match for werewolves? Would XCOM and Hunters work together?

Think of the Technocracy a bit like Scientology but in their case the inner mysteries are true. At the lower levels it’s sort of mundane. You’re a brilliant scientist/economist/whatever that has been selected for your great talent or insight. Then in 20 years you’re working on a giant space arcology near Jupiter and use a wormhole portal to commute

>>96737697
Invading WoD Earth is suicide

>>96737697
>WoD cross XCOM
Earth would be a little overqualified against the aliens. WoD Earth is basically just stronger than XCOM Earth which is a 'normal' Earth. WoD could unleash all kinds of supernatural magic and abilities the aliens don't have any technology or knowledge to fight against. XCOM would just be the 'human' answer to the alien invasion, the Camarilla and Technocracy would rapidly engineer their own specialized alien-hunting units to fight them in the shadows. The other splats would probably not get involved much since the scale of such a war would be more or less beyond them. It would be cool, but I don't think the aliens stand a chance.
There is one interesting direction you could take it though, where the aliens represent a 'final' form of the Technocracy from another world, and WoD Earth has to find a way to defeat it. The Technocracy of Earth realizes the aliens are them but more evolved/better, and see the consequences of their philosophies that created, in this alien species, a caste-based clone society with the lowest as little more than slave drones and the highest as living gods who could do anything, but were beholden to nothing and no one, mad kings and queens that tormented the subjugated aliens under them and eventually declined to the point that they had to start invading other planets to sustain themselves.

>>96737681
>Successor theories are inevitable. The sound barrier was "explicitly stronger than that", once. Eventually relativity as we know it will be transcended. Exoticer and exoticer physics
All of those were "transcended" through the use of the scientific method. People didn't just take some drugs and come to the understanding that they could break the sound barrier. None of the things you listed there are a paradigm, they're too narrow for that. Except for Spheres, which yes they changed but it's not like they did it purposefully to become more powerful. They changed because they thought it was true.

>>96737697
XCOM canonically loses in the first week or so, so them working with another group wouldn't matter

>>96737767
>All of those were "transcended" through the use of the scientific method.
The scientific method is literally just doing and repeating shit. Even religion is a precursor to science in observation-theory. All mages are doing science.

>>96737697
The Void Engineers would crush xcom aliens long before they reached Earth. They’ve got advanced starships and actual fucking space marines like in Warhammer 40k

>>96737777
We got a technocratic infiltrator here boys, get him!

>>96737774
That's because all the sponsors got alienkiked and pulled their support even though XCOM was doing well at the time. If the Camarilla and the Technocracy were involved, those powerful sponsors would be either 'persuaded' or outright mind controlled into continuing to support XCOM because both of those organizations are not going to be interested in Earth turning into an alien-ruled hellhole

>>96737345
I get that, I'm just trying to picture what they were aiming for.

>>96737791
>That's because all the sponsors got alienkiked and pulled their support even though XCOM was doing well at the time
When does this get stated? IIRC what happened was aliens immediately do a base assault and XCOM loses
Is that something they changed with War of Chosen? I didn't play that expansion

>>96737786
It’s funny because the Border Corps Division (which is their actual name) hate being called Space Marines and people do it behind their back to troll them

>>96737681
I know you are a retard but have your you.
>So shove an Avatar into a simulation chamber and fool it into believing anything you fucking want.
That isn't how it works anon. You have to fundamentally change your own belief.
Even for Marauders problem isn't the Avatars, Mages themselves are insane and Avatars translate things between them and the real world. When you yourself truly believe the color red is speed, you can paint things red to make them go faster.

>>96737697
Didn't another anon a similar questions like a month back.

It would be like "Pencils downs, Deathrays Up" fic, Go read it.

>>96737788
>He doesn't know
This is a Technocracy thread.

>>96737813
>That isn't how it works anon.
Does the Avatar exist? Then it can be worked.
>You have to fundamentally change your own belief.
Psychology? Cool.
>Even for Marauders problem isn't the Avatars, Mages themselves are insane and Avatars translate things between them and the real world.
Simulated. Torture. Chamber.
>When you yourself truly believe the color red is speed, you can paint things red to make them go faster.
Cool. There's a recipe for that somewhere. One ingredient is "insanity".

>>96737552
It's not really a matter of the average lifespan of an edition, I don't see paradox being confident enough to try that particular manoeuvre but who fucking knows?

>>96737809
The aliens wouldn't have been so interested in studying the Commander and using him as the basis for the Avatar project if he wasn't an anomalously talented tactical overseer that was kicking their asses in the field. Likewise, they wouldn't have bothered invading XCOM HQ if XCOM wasn't an actual threat to them at the time (having progressed to at least mid-game tech levels and with numerous successful missions)

>>96736788
Agents that claim to act in service of the Wyrm are comically evil. But they really act in service of themselves. If all of them were killed and their souls obliterated to remove the totality of their tainted presence from the fabric of reality, the Wyrm's image would be a lot cleaner.

>>96736694
The wyrm is a metaphysical force of entropy, destruction, renewal, etc. I don’t think it can truly be said to be evil in the way a human can be evil because it isn’t a person in the same way. It’s one of the building blocks of reality. It’s closer to a deadly storm than, say, a nephandi.

Some aspects of the wyrm remain untouched by its madness even now

The Wyrm, like the Demiurge, is unjustifiably hated.

>>96737871
gnosis, delete this poster

>>96737840
>>96737856
>The Triatic Wyrm, the Urge Wyrms, the Maeljin Incarna, Black Spiral Dancers, Malfeas, Nephandi, Pentex, Banes, Fomori and literally everything else corrupted by and in service to the Wyrm might all be evil, but don't you dare say that the Wyrm is evil, he's a good boy who didn't do nothing wrong! Please ignore all of the Apocalypse scenarios in which he's actually freed and actually does try to defile and destroy the world in the same fashion as everything that follows him!

>>96736694
>>96737897
>>96737984
You need therapy.

>>96737994
WE GOT AN AGENT HERE BROTHERS
RIP AND TEAR

I like how consensual reality only effects Mage and no other gameline.

The wod is so stupid lol

>>96733754
You'll be more likely to trip on a pothole, fall down an open sewer grate and come out of the drink with a pearl necklace around your neck.

>>96737788
>He noticed?
>Drain his bank accounts, take away his internet acces and twist his testicles counter-closkwise

leave the wyrm alone

>>96737984
I’m not saying the wyrm is good, I’m saying it is closer to something like physics so those concepts don’t really apply to it in the same way. The mage way of viewing the triat as dynamism, stasis, and entropy is the most correct

>>96738028
If there was an endless swarm of gravity demons that wanted to increase the density of Earth to make it collapse on itself and anyone under the spiritual influence of gravity also shared that desire, I'd call gravity evil too. The Wyrm is not entropy, it's an insane spirit-god of destruction and evil, and Mage and Werewolf are two separate games.

>>96738054
His view is actually pretty close to the orthodox one among the garou. Some of the garou thought the imbued hunters were sent by the sane aspect of the wyrm in a flash of sanity. Thinking of extremely powerful and inhuman spirits in anthropomorphic terms is not correct

>>96736872
Don't be a slave to "canon" princes.

Make all that shit up.

>PHYSICS IS EVIL
>IT LITERALLY WANTS TO KILL YOU
>YOUR BLOOD BOILS IN THE VACUUM OF SPACE

>PHYSICS IS THE REASON EVERY GIRLS’ PUSSY IS DRY AROUND YOU
>YOU HAVE A BANE THAT MAKES YOU UNFUCKABLE
>YOU GOTTA KILL THE WYRM IT’S THE ONLY WAY BRO

>>96738054
>If there was an endless swarm of gravity demons that wanted to increase the density of Earth to make it collapse on itself and anyone under the spiritual influence of gravity also shared that desire, I'd call gravity evil too.
Uh... the Wyrm isn't demons, it's not even anthropomorphic in nature, it's just a fundamental force of the universe. You've predefined it as evil by calling it demons. Kind of retarded, as expected of technocracytrannies

>>96738005
It affects changelings a lot, probably because they were born from human dreams. Mages can also be huge sources of either glamour or banality. If you’re a changeling an archmage might generate so much glamour that you go into bedlam. Or they could instakill you with banality by disbelieving in you so hard your fairy soul winks out of existence

>>96738104
Fun fact: I’m one of the mage technocracyfags and I was arguing against the wyrm as a source of evil. The wyrm is just another thing to be understood and used by humans

>>96738005
Mixing splats never ends well

>>96737341
>>96737345
>>96737801
>>96737355
From my understanding, he was originally going for a Protean, Animalism and Potence spread. Then he had a bunch of issues in social situation that led him to pump Presence. That point in Fortitude was a freebie.
Then I allowed him to learn Temporis and that's his current autistic fixation, and claims he won't stop until he gets it to 5.

>>96738141
Tell him I’m going to kick his ass if I ever see him at a Thing.

>>96738005
Consensual reality is like...
>humans have a sandbox called Earth
>they unknowingly shape the way Earth works by believing in it
VtM introduces the idea of a curse that is beyond human consensus
>God placed this curse on Caine, punishing him forever, and cursing his offspring forever as well
>if God's curse could be broken or bent by human consensus, it clearly isn't God who put it on Caine. God is something that exists beyond Earth, beyond human consensus, as he was acting on the world before humans even believed in him
WtA expands on the idea of external forces beyond human consensus with the introduction of the Trinity, who are all forces that predate humanity and exist beyond the Consensus. The Consensus itself could be a region of the Umbra, though this is absolutely not confirmed and is likely to be an oversimplification of how these forces intersect
Changeling as a splat is sort of an entire species of Consensus-born supernatural beings, though it gets more complicated because the Dreaming is not ruled by Consensus directly but rather acts as a mirror of human belief. It's complicated but Consensus and Dreaming are very closely linked conceptually. You could theoretically break down the Consensus itself into aspects of Glamour and Banality, which would explain the entire dynamic that Changelings are dealing with
The Underworld of Wraith is also something that predates humanity and does not bow to the Consensus

>>96738066
Using the fact that there might be a tiny shard of the Balance Wyrm left that is yet to succumb to madness doesn't change the fact that the majority of the Wyrm is undeniably insane and evil, as can be seen in the Triatic Wyrm and the Urge Wyrms, which are all aspects of the Wyrm itself. These aspects include:
>Calamity
>Corruption
>Consumption
>Fear
>Greed
>Power
>Desire
>Hatred
>Cruelty
>Violence
>Consumption (again)
>Lies
>Paranoia
>Despair
>Apathy
This is not anthropomorphisation, these the actual, factual spiritual domains of these aspects of the Wyrm. The Wyrm might be a spirit associated with a fundamental force, but it's also insane and evil.
I can't believe I took this bait, but it's just that good.

>>96738176
I’ve always liked the idea that WoD is the future of Exalted and that avatars are exaltations that have grown in power (exactly where they came from open to interpretation, it could be Exalted’s Gaia or that robot primordial.) Because of this humans have the collective power to shape the raw structure of existence like the primordial in Exalted but it is limited and can be resisted by other forces

>>96738191
Read the Garou end times novel and realize how far off from a trad Garou view you really are. The wyrm’s evil is explicitly referring to as a lie/story for its followers

Just think about it for a second. If you actually want to return to balance you *require* the wyrm. The wyrm can’t be done away any more than the wyld could

>>96738141
He really needs to find a focus for him unless he is going for a "my power set is a cluster fuck" gimmick.
Maybe that's just me, knowing how much of a pain in the ass to use XP like that.

>>96737526
None of which are things that BSDs actually stand for or believe in, because that would imply hope exists in their shattered souls.

>>96737610
No, both of them get shoved through a doorway in reality that utterly breaks them. They're the same general concept in a different game.

>>96737856
Uncorrupted aspects of the Wyrm are very, very few and far between. Like, off hand, there's the Elder Serpent of Pangaea, a fragment of Bat, and basically nothing else mentioned.

>>96738028
>Mage
>Most correct
>About anything
>Especially in another game with the opposite themes and premise

>>96738131
It's never been the source of evil, but it does love gorging at the buffet with its various Celestines and Incarnae. They get a group discount!

>>96738191
Sometimes wrong answers have to be corrected because people just won't fucking read the books.

>>96738292
To be fair... I hand out XP like candy at Halloween

>>96738246
Thanks for the laugh, but I can only conclude that if you're serious, you're a magefag trying to impose Mage's cosmology on a separate game. The Wyrm is a crazed and evil spirit of immense power and fundamental importance to the Umbra, but it is still an entity. It's closer to Satan than it is to a force of physics.

how do I convince my ST to hand out more XP (V5)

We played for 5 months all I was able to do was level 1 discipline from 3 to 4. This is suppoed to be an ancilla game but it feels like every NPC is actually more powerful than us

>>96738342
From The Last Battle

>"No," Moon-Sister said. "The Wyrm, once freed of its prison, is a force of balance. It is supposed to destroy only those things which are out of balance: the Weaver that chokes the universe."

>Altair gave them a wry smile. "In a perfect universe, this would be true. But in a perfect universe, there would be no imbalance. The Wyrm is not truly free. It is loosed from its cage, but it is leashed to the will of its own corrupt children. Do you now see the dilemma of believing an illusion rather than the truth? The Wyrm has succumbed to its own lies, a story it told to those it hoped would set it free. Now, like so many beings, it is trapped by its own story."

>"How can you be so damn cold?" Canopus yelled. "That thing is destroying all we know and love - the very planets themselves, damn it! And you sit here philosophizing about it!"

>Altair raised an eyebrow. "What would you have me do? Fight it? To what end? It acts from ignorance. The cure is truth. How would you administer it?"


Noted for emphasis
> has succumbed to its own lies, a story it told to those it hoped would set it free. Now, like so many beings, it is trapped by its own story."

>>96738342
I wouldn't recommend using Satan as a comparison. It brings in the Demon fans and creates another clusterfuck. Especially when we already have a point of relation for it as a palpable entity as a centipede-dragon that got shibari'd and then neglected for millions of years by something that looks a lot like a spider in some light and a silkworm in others, which is also the Infosphere from Futurama.

Given that the centipede-dragon has been shibari'd in a corner for so long, it is in bad shape all around. It has blood clots everywhere, its genitals are getting cut into (which strangely gets it off), and it can't really move very well, even if it can madly thrash around. It has been casually violated and so seeks to devour and casually violate in turn, when viewed as a whole. And some parts of it have started to get off on that.

>>96738323
As you should, wod's progression is ass.

Ironically the belief that the wyrm is inherently bad because it acts as a force of destruction is itself very weaverish. That is why the weaver imprisoned the wyrm in its web, it was tired of the wyrm wrecking all the cool shit it made because of some hippie bullshit about balance and Gaia.

>>96738357
Why not just ask why he's not giving out more XP?
>Hey, ST, I want more XP, how can I get it? All I've managed to do is improve a discipline by one dot.

>>96738422
Turns out, Weaver is the only force capable of thinking for itself and saying "Balance? Destroy my stuff? I think not, get rekt nerd"

>>96738442
>Weaver imprisons the Wyrm
>now criminals and monsters go unpunished on Earth
>Weaver is essentially aiding and abetting all the evil on Earth
>evil on Earth continuously destabilizes the status quo, dragging it closer to the apocalypse despite the Weaver desperately trying to duct tape the universe back together more and more and continues to attack the Wyrm to prevent it from doing its job, which only guarantees shit will continue to destabilize like cancer building throughout reality
but it's the Wyrm's fault that bad shit keeps happening?

>>96738484
>>now criminals and monsters go unpunished on Earth

>he thinks the wyrm just kills criminals or bad guys

Anon, when they say balance it includes things like most humans being genocided. Time to take the technocracy/human supremacist pill

>>96738504
>Anon, when they say balance it includes things like most humans being genocided
lol, that's not what balance means, that's the overcorrection that the Wyrm is being forced into by the Weaver due to its inability to cull the bad elements from the population
And what the fuck is the Wyld doing as all this is happening? That's right, nothing. The Wyld is a coward pussy bitch

>>96738484
The solution? We embrace the Weaver.

>>96738422
The Wyrm isn't inherently bad, it's bad because it was driven insane by the Weaver long before civilisation ever stood and its mind fractured into what's effectively the Seven Deadly Sins and their multitude of inbred cousins. It's not evil by nature, but it is still evil.
>>96738504
The hilarious part is that it's the Wyrm's Urges govern the various emotions that drive most criminals and other harmful human elements to do what they do. Criminality plays an important part in destabilising society and nudging it closer to the Apocalypse.

>>96737404
>The garou can’t do shit because they are poorly designed bioweapons.
They've stopped the Apocalypse from occurring twice in the past millennium, see the Croatan sacrifice and the Storm Eater. That's not counting how their preventative measures might have theoretically slowed the Apocalypse or prevented other Apocalyptic scenarios. As much as people love to flanderise the Garou and as much as they are responsible for some of the world's problems, they do actually do their job and the world would have already ended if they didn't exist.

Hello , i tried looking for Chronicles of darkness 1e rulebook but couldn't not find it , i did manage to find the 2e , my question is can i use the CofD 2e instead of 1e or that will not work ? ( im using the 1e splats [ vampire , hunter , mage] because some of them have more source material)

ty for your Attention.

>>96738067
I want to tell the story of the decade long struggle for NYC. Once the chronicle hits Calebros' abdication I would go hard off those rails.

That said, one player wants to play a Ravnos, another an Ahrimane. So that is half the troupe fridged in '98/'99 due to meta shennanigans.

>>96738552
Unironically. The weaver is the one giving humanity the tools to conquer the stars and leave gaia behind as a relic of the past, while gaia wants to reduce humanity to a group of stone-agers that're dependent on her mercy to survive.
The earth bitch is just mad she's losing for once.

>>96738715
>The weaver is the one giving humanity the tools to conquer the stars and leave gaia behind as a relic of the past,
uhhhh that's the Wyld my guy, if the Weaver had her way humanity would never leave Earth and upset the status quo

>>96738552
>>96738715
>no becoming a cog in the machine is good!
I am so fucking tired of Weaver propaganda.

Imagine being an Unseelie trying to suck up glamour from a mage, not knowing that it's an archmage with an effective banality of 0, going crazy in the process and then exploding like a popped balloon from the excess glamour.

>>96738785
Go fuck a dog or whatever it is that you mutts do, Weaver (unlike Gayia) consideres humans her favourite child

>>96738805
Only as agents that can bring about a static reality for her.

>>96738805
>Weaver (unlike Gayia) consideres humans her favourite child
She's an abusive parent and has been trying to delay human advancement for generations. You really shouldn't be fanboying for the Weaver, she's anti-Technocracy. The Wyld is the Technocracy's patron, as the spirit of creation itself, the Technocracy (and mages in general) are unleashing the Wyld's gifts every time they use their powers.

Frankenstein Promethean and a Crinos form Werewolf. Who wins the arm wrestling competition?

>>96738851
The Werewolf in 9 out of 10 cases, Prometheans aren't powerhouses unless you exploit a few very very strong key abilities like regenerating health from electricity. And I don't recall Promethean strength boosts being that significant, at least not at low level play

>>96738323
You are a good bean.

I don't trust the Weaver either, but I am sincere when I say I totally reject the whole concept of "balance" and valuing all life as much as humans. Non-sapient animals are not as important as humans to me. No one could ever convince me to change my stance on this. Human flourishing and ascension is what matters to me, not Gaia. Perhaps you could argue that caring about Gaia more would serve the interests of humans, but that is a purely practical argument. It is the principal I reject.

>>96738622
Chronicles of Darkness 1e was still called World of Darkness, it should be in the Mega under that title.

>>96738552
Found the OneSong.

>>96738820
Another worthwhile reminder in this line: the Weaver's goal is like the InfoSphere from Futurama. It wants to catalog everything, understand it, and then freeze it as it is. It only values humans in the same way one might Warhammer figurines. And much as with WH, it'll put you back on the shelf behind a lot of other shit the moment the new codex comes out.

>>96738896
I think Humans would benefit the most from trying to balance all 3 out but
>wyrm and weaver both turned psychotic
There's no solution anymore there

>>96738896
The health of Gaia is necessary for the health of humanity. Gaia is the soul of everything, not just trees and wolves and other hippy shit. You are on the path of becoming a Weaver drone and should seriously just go outside and take a walk. You're putting too much thought into this and going into weird headspaces.

PLEASE sop talking about werewolf, it is the most boring splat

>>96738342
with all the cosmology arguments all WoD threads might as well just be Mage threads

>>96738724
>uhhhh that's the Wyld my guy
No. The fuck are you talking about? The wyld is all about random generation, the weaver is the one who makes things into other things(AKA all technology).
She called the WEAVER anon, what do you think WEAVING is?

>>96738896
That's a lovely opinion to hold in reality, less so in the World of Darkness where human ascendancy involves the death of all things magical and all of the other marvellous forms of intelligent life and all of the potential and possibilities that magic holds, in favour of a comfortable, stable existence for humans and only humans.

>>96738827
>She's an abusive parent and has been trying to delay human advancement for generations.
Exact opposite anon. The weaver is the main force behind human advancement and actively encourages it. You're disregarding the lore from the Book of the Weaver itself to try and strawman the weaver as some kind of god of apathy and laziness.

>>96735991
Characters getting so high on their own supply the spiral into parody is kind of based though

>>96738996
do you think Technocracy magic is 'making things into other things?' Cause it's not. What you think it is is science, because you've never read the books, but Technocratic magic is conjuring new concepts and inventions out of thin air, and gradually these inventions get filtered back down into the Consensus as 'science' through Technocratic propaganda.

>>96739001
>That's a lovely opinion to hold in reality, less so in the World of Darkness where human ascendancy involves the death of all things magical and all of the other marvellous forms of intelligent life
Magic and wonder in WoD is the purview of parasites, rabid animals, megalomaniacs, and amoral monsters. Fuck 'em

>>96738987
>Waaaaah! Anons aren't autistically fixated on things I Like!
Grow the fuck up. Either contribute or leave.

>>96738987
You will fuck the dogs and furries and you will like it

>>96739024
>parasites, rabid animals, megalomaniacs, and amoral monsters
So, humans?

>>96739021
>Thinks tenchocracy magic is the root of all technology in werewolf
Magefags are so tiresome.

>>96739031
Go do your homework, you have school tomorrow

>>96739031
TRUKE
R
U
K
E
holy shit the Technocracyfag will never recover from this one

>>96739021
>Magefag reveals his true colors
Oh, now your retarded lorebreaking take makes sense.
Have you ever considered the fact that wod, as a setting, doesn't revolve around Mage?

>>96739033
...yes. Because that's where human technology comes from in OWoD. That's the metaplot. If you don't like it, take it up with White Wolf. Or don't, since they're gone.
>>96739050
are you stupid or something? See above

yeah
we should talk about the fae instead

>>96739061
there is literally nothing interesting to talk about with CtD. It's a doomed world, nothing can be done, changelings are just delaying the Forever Winter a few more years at best. It's also extremely self-contained and has pretty much nothing to do with the rest of OWoD, it's not even mentioned in the big crossover events or anything. It's boring. Ironically the splat about escaping boredom and ennui is, itself, a source of boredom and ennui.

>>96739001
>That's a lovely opinion to hold in reality, less so in the World of Darkness where human ascendancy involves the death of all things magical and all of the other marvellous forms of intelligent life and all of the potential and possibilities that magic holds, in favour of a comfortable, stable existence for humans and only humans.

>But if humans ascend into a new golden age then how will parasites that need to feed on our dreams and blood survive?

that sounds like a "you" problem

>>96739061
Burn the fae
Burn the fae

>>96739085
Sorry, I'd rather live in a world where wonder and terror both exist, than a world with neither. I won't drink the banality kool-aid.

>>96739050
WoD kind of always has mages making things worse or otherwise in the background though. Not accurate to say it revolves around Mage but mages are pretty much the strongest and most versatile splat to be using

>>96739057
>Because that's where human technology comes from in OWoD
Even the Mage books call this out as wrong anon. Read the fucking lorebook and stop taking your mage facts from social media.
Fucking retard.

>>96739178
why do people who have never touched a single WoD book in their lives insist on being so wrong? Talking about you btw

I find it hilarious how all of the people drawn to the World of Darkness because of how intricate, moody and full of personality, character and life all end up taking the side of the antagonists who want to make the World of Darkness as sterile, monotonous and tedious as reality, all because of "muh humanity."

>>96739220
>either join the antagonists and get spiritually raped or join the "protagonists" and get physically raped, cuckolded, forced into servitude
Nature of the setting

>We made better, more mature arguments about fucking HtP last thread.

Maybe... secondaries are a-okay.

>>96739220
>You know what will get people to side with us? Making the antagonists cool as shit!
>Yeah, don't forget to make the somewhat likeable too!

>>96739220
I just don't share some retard boomer's idea of "wonder", the Technocracy has way more character and personality than the ethnic stereotypes that the Traditions or werewolves are made up of.

>>96739220
You know we can understand the message without agreeing with it, right? Also, Syndicate being literal a literal shadow gang of money wizards will never stop being cool.

>>96739304
>I just don't share some retard boomer's idea of "wonder", the Technocracy has way more character and personality than the ethnic stereotypes that the Traditions or werewolves are made up of.

>>96739201
>Talking about you btw
The fact you're aware of the irony and still don't see anything wrong with your stance is another layer of hilarious.
Anon is the one who told you to read the fucking books, your "No U" is worthless.

>>96739220
Don't look at me, I voted for the Sabbat.

>>96739271
Hunter superiority confirmed once again.

>>96739061
I want to fuck the fae and beocme one

>>96739271
Why do people keep talking about Harry the Pottering? Fucking magefags I swear

>>96739220
I unironically joined the military industrial complex IRL and it was the best decision of my life. I'm retired at 28 with free healthcare for life.
Compare to the people trying to "Find Themselves" getting hundred of thousands of dollars in debt and become wagies entirely because of their own stupidity.
Joining the technocrats is genuinely the best option and the traditions are what made the wagie class from their incompetence.

>>96739388
Anon, just because someone says to read the books doesn't mean they have the slightest idea what they're talking about. That retard is so violently upset that the Technocracy creates technology in WoD that he's now refusing to acknowledge it as part of the wider setting because it hurts his stupid furfag WtA arguments. If you don't think the Technocracy creates technology, you seriously need to read Mage.

>>96739418
>because real life is a banal existence in which selling out and becoming a cog in the machine is the best possible choice, i demand that this fictional setting in which magic and wonder and the supernatural actually exist suffers the same fate
Weird take, but okay.

>>96739439
Anon, the magebooks have been talking on about independent scientists making their own discoveries since the original guide to the technocracy. MTA has also been steadily walking back on the idea of total consensual reality since 2e.
Unless anon is a hardcore 1e only fag, then he's just straight up wrong.

>>96739452
Enjoy being a tradition wagie I guess.

>>96739463
individual exceptions to the rule have existed since 1e, but these scientists are not the majority of technological progress and what they do is essentially taking known laws of physics (as established by the Consensus) and then applying their understanding of it to create new results. They work within the paradigm set by the Technocracy and do, occasionally, innovate something never-before-imagined, but to act like the Technocracy isn't the primary font of new technology fed to society is ridiculous.
Yes, I know the Technocracy's influence and importance is eroded in every new edition.

Since this thread turned into a battle of tisms I guess I can throw something into the mix.

Best hunter group?

>>96739487
>Yes, I know the Technocracy's influence and importance is eroded in every new edition.
Anon, the entire validity of your argument hinges on technocratic importance being absolute.
If you yourself understand that this has been steadily declining every edition, how is it that you still don't understand how cognitively dissonant your point is?

>>96739381
>>96739452
If they wanted to make you think that the Technocracy represents being a boring wagie, they shouldn't have made them into cool agents, cyborgs, scientists and whatnot.

>>96739510
>Anon, the entire validity of your argument hinges on technocratic importance being absolute.
It still is. As I said, these rare independent scientists are inventing based on the Consensus that the Technocracy has established. They couldn't invent anything if one of the Traditions was in charge because there wouldn't be reliable laws of physics, 2 + 2 no longer equals 4 at all times, sometimes it's 2, sometimes it's 5, sometimes it's 29192029.
>If you yourself understand that this has been steadily declining every edition, how is it that you still don't understand how cognitively dissonant your point is?
I don't even understand what you're trying to say. If you acknowledge the Technocracy is the primary driving force behind OWoD technological growth, whether it's Technocratic mages or ordinary scientists working within the Technocratic paradigm, why are you even arguing with this? That remains true regardless of the edition, even as they gradually chip away at the Technocracy's power.

>>96739472
I won't be because I'm not in the World of Darkness. You're projecting a weird amount of yourself onto this fictional setting instead of just enjoying it for what it is. Try exploring the Traditions mindset through a Chorister or an Ecstatic sometime and explore a character who chases the sublime. Not everything you play needs to reflect how you think OOC.
>>96739512
It's more that the end goal of the Technocracy is a world in which all humans live safe, satisfied existences free of unmet needs or desires, devoid of anything special or the freedom to struggle, strive and want. I agree that the Technocracy mages themselves have a great aesthetic going on, but anyone who argues in favour of their desired goals within the World of Darkness just because they look cool is a bit shallow.

>>96739531
>If you acknowledge the Technocracy is the primary driving force behind OWoD technological growth
Anon, he's saying this is the case and is siting the fact that the entire "Technocratic paradigm" argument is nonsense in newer editions.
It was always nonsense honestly, the majority of the human population of earth is superstitious illiterates that don't understand electricity, let alone physics. The idea the technocracy captured the entire human consensus was retarded from day 1

magefags really are insufferable

>>96739512
Agreed, I enjoyed 1e better where the Technocracy was more like the antagonists of the Invisibles. Brucatto fucked the setting irrevocably with his HECKIN SCIENCE pandering.

>>96739549
>You're projecting a weird amount of yourself onto this fictional setting
Anon, pretending the WoD is real has been a running joke on this thread for over a Decade.
You're either purposefully trying to misrepresent anons point with manufactured ignorance, or you're a newfag.
Make better shitposts or lurk more.

>>96739557
>he's saying this is the case
*isn't the case. Fuck this fucking phone and it's autocorrect.

>>96739565
I'm still waiting for anons to realize this was a psyop by the anon that was whining about people discussing werewolf.
Anons are so fucking gullible.

>>96739578
... you don't turn off your autocorrect?

laughinggirls.jpeg

I pass out making coffee and come back to this?

you guys phonepost...?

>>96739271
It's just a good show I think. Despite the recent episode with the heavy colonialist white guilt messaging

All of this shit is why WoD should literally just be VtM, WtO and DtF.
WtA, MtAs and CtD are absolute fucking cancer that detract from WoD in every possible way and turn it from cool to cringe with astonishing ease.

>>96739597
It's the only thing I can do anymore. I got sucked into the Digital Web while browsing on my phone and I can't get out. Fuck my bakka existence.

>>96739608
WtO and DtF do not fit VtM either. You'd know this if you read the fucking books dumb fuck.

>>96739608
based edgelord

>>96739624
They're at least thematically similar to the point where you could imagine them sharing a setting.
Furshit, mageshit and faeshit is just so wacky and fucking out of this world that it shatters any sense of immersion.

The wyrm is the unironic good guy in WtA if you look from the big picture.
It's trying to bring balance back to the world the weaver brought out of order. Mass extinction isn't even a death knell to gaia like the changers pretend, the earth has gone through multiple near-total extinctions that make humanity look like a minor annoyance at best.
The changers are just seething because they failed their main job and the wyrm's job is now to exterminate them along with humanity when it resets the board.

vampires and werewolves have an age-long rivalry, just like pirates and ninjas and it would be dumb to not include them in the same setting

>>96739512
>If they wanted to make you think that the Technocracy represents being a boring wagie, they shouldn't have made them into cool agents, cyborgs, scientists and whatnot.
I take you never heard of a thing called propaganda.

>>96739638
No you can't. You do not know shit about these settings, honestly if you actually read Vampire you'd find it distasteful too. Go fucking reinstall VtM:B, there's you're "true authentic" WoD.

>>96739646
It is nice that there's enough ambiguity in the setting where you can say; wait a minute, are the BSD the just anit-heroes?

>>96739664
And the traditions never, Ever pushed any propaganda. Riiiiiight?

>>96739672
>are the BSD the just anit-heroes?
They're just garou in their natural state.
The Garou's entire job is to kill and destroy to bring balance to gaia.
The ones that decided to work for the member of the triat who's job is to destroy things to bring balance also just so happen to be the largest, strongest, and most powerful garou tribe. Literally powerful enough to challenge the rest of the garou nation combined.

>>96739608
>cosmology is retarded and depends entirely on the PoV and the observer
That's perfectly fine and isn't nearly as big of an issue as you might think it is, it's not "incompatible" but all splats just think of events differently
>>96739649
I understand the idea behind separating WtA and VtM setting but keeping the same core splat rules

>>96739646
It's just that the big picture happens to be made out of a million tiny pictures of suffering and torment and trauma and abuse and horror and even then, it's not guaranteed that it's trying to bring about balance any more now that it's gone mad. The Triatic Wyrm exists solely because it wants to replace all of the Triat, including itself, with these mini-mes and there's a good chance that it just wants to delete everything and be done with this shit rather than do a hard reset.

>>96739598
It's not just that. The main discussion was an argument about concerns of the show's direction and the rather dissonant conclusion of it. Especially with a topic somewhat related to contemporary politics.

Despite that, it managed to have more dignity and rationality than the extant "hurr durr technocracy" shit that has blighted the general as of late.

>>96739649
Forsaken werewolves could easily work with VtM, their mythology doesn't really say anything about the creation of the world, so the Abrahamic God and Cain can still exist. And they would probably have more reason to fight vampires, the Garou are too busy with bigger things, but Uratha care about any kind of spiritual problems on their territory.

>>96739770
I guess arguing over something tangible has that effect sometimes

>>96739772
>he still thinks Caine was real

>>96739735
>it just wants to delete everything and be done with this shit rather than do a hard reset.
In cosmological terms, those are the same thing. You could sterilize the entire earth of all complex life and it would just bounce back after 2 billion years thanks to the the deep biosphere.

>>96739818
As in, utter oblivion and annihilation of all things.

>>96739770
>it managed to have more dignity and rationality than the extant "hurr durr technocracy" shit that has blighted the general as of late.
How is it that anons still haven't caught on to the fact this is on purpose. The bullshit always Always starts with the same fag complaining about whatever the current discussion is right before someone mysteriously starts another technocracy skub war.
You can see it in this fucking thread

>>96739817
It is hilarious the lack of reading comprehension that WoD fans have. They were given multiple mythological sources, often in the same splat, and cling to the most basic and banal explanations. Caine is juust a placeholder, anons. There have been *muultiple* first generation vampires, and vampires are not endemic to the Middle East.

>>96739843
I understand that just fine. But it seems like fags won't stop taking the damn bait and mods won't perma the problem.

>>96739857
b-but my book of nod!?

>>96739638
>Furshit, mageshit and faeshit is just so wacky and fucking out of this world that it shatters any sense of immersion.
Here, I made this for you.

>>96739910
The book that offers multiple conflicting explanations, has zero sources beyond "trust me neonate, my sire works in Enoch", and could easily be proven to be true by using a level four Discipline power to just force Caine or the Antes to show up? Oh, but none of the insanely old elders can do that? Hmmm...

>>96739925
None of this stuff fundamentally affects the way the world works like mage or werewolf does

>>96739857
ToJ effectively confirms Caine and Noddism as the one true canon of VtM, not just a theory.

>>96739967
That and none of the alternatives have any meat on their bones.

>>96739942
You mean to tell me that a game of telephone spanning thousands of years is not a good way to accurately pass down a description of history?

>>96736578
Kek this is entertaining, the Machiavellian bullshit going on with the alcohol is straight from Shakespeare

>>96736672
This has to be unironically what I expect from a Larp but damn was that entertaining
>retards hop up on substances make out with each other like degenerates instead of actually play out the hobby
>woman moment after women moment
>godbless the Malks
Kek

>>96737479
Thanks anon.
>Ironically, people still supported them more than the Traditions.
Why?

>>96737404
What exactly does it mean to dance the black spiral?

Is the Rokea creation myth more accurate than the Garou’s since they’ve been around way longer?

>>96740289
Maybe. But at the same time, they're even more anti-intellectual than Garou so it could be entirely off base.

>>96740289
If you want the closest to the truth, that'll be the ananasi creation myth. They were among the first shifters to exist.

>>96735681
I think the better question would be if Vampires could feed off of horseshoe crabs with their blue copper based blood.

>>96740466
If it has blood, a vampire can feed on it. Period.

>>96740531
False. Crabs do not have the spiritual resonance to give their blood the shit vampires need (outside of specifically advanced elders) without literally taking a comical amount and straining the mass of creatures. All for what, one blood point? Good job, you wasted your entire night, violated the masquerade, and are underfed.

>>96740615
It's not about blood, it's about sending a message

>>96740615
Anon, animal isn't That thin to vampires. Animal will generally have a 1/4 bp per health level. It'd only take 2-4 crabs per bp.

Do female werewolves start panting and getting all giddy when you scratch them behind the ears?

>>96740531
If vampires need blood because inherently it is the lifeline of the creatures, rather than containing nourishing substance like haemoglobin... does that mean they can literally drink any kind of blood and gain nourishment from it? Even hypothetically, an alien's blood?

>>96740784
Yes.

>>96740790
Neat.

So the ministry of set or whatever they're called have effectively a gnostic goal of breaking people down with their worst vices until they become enlightened and realize nothing actually matters because?

>>96740289
No, the woofs get priority.

>>96740815
My headcanon (real and based by the way) is that by spreading immorality they erode human goodness (such as it is in WoD), with the endgame being that in a fucked up, nihilist, hedonist, borderline anarchist dystopia, immortal creatures that kill people by draining their blood would be instant celebrities. So kinda like Sabbat but less retarded.

>>96740231
Traditions basically make life worse for everyone that isn't a mage. Imagine the universe gets reset and you're the indentured footrubber of a wizard king who gets off on turning people into toads, that's basically traditions wincon

>>96740975
Yeah imagine if the universe gets reset and you have to slave away every day at the behest of those with more power than you, who use your time and effort to enrich themselves even further, and who get off on doing heinous shit that they never get punished for because they have more power, haha wouldn't that be awful

Anything happened in the metaplot lately?

>>96740986
Yes but your boss can't turn you into a toad or mend your buttcrack just because he can

>>96741025
We'll know when bloodlines two drops assuming the game is canonized like 1

>>96740815
Because they're crypto-wyrm worshippers. Most don't get it, but they're just trying to usher in the Apocalypse as servants of the Defiler Wyrm.

>>96740972
So diet Pentex?

>>96741029
Yeah, all he can do is give you mental illnesses or break your body (as long as it's in the name of profit, of course), what a shit mage.

I was rewatching the animations proper and I can't help but think that Simon is supernatural somehow
I think he's the equivalent of an Ork weirdboy

>>96741037
why did you have to remind me of bloodlines 2 man

>>96741179
Sorry lad, if it's any consolation the game looks mechanically decent enough if you grab it at a 20 dollar steal or pirate it. for people expecting bloodlines kino though, there's always the night driving game

>>96741179
Because suffering builds character.

>>96741214
>there's always the night driving game
Night Road fucking sucked.

>>96741258
Heard a lot of anons preach that it was one of the only good Vampire text games though

>>96741275
Those anons were shills. It sucks donkey balls.

Reminder that episode 5 is the worst viewed episode

>>96741298
What the hell is this slut saying…?

I liked shadows of new york

>>96738422
The Bad/ Current Wyrm is just an aspect/ avatar of the real Wyrm, who is still a cool guy, just betrayed and imprisoned. The Wyrm that's going around like a captain planet villain is the super butthurt aspect of the chained Wyrm's insanity

Cut his strings, he gives Weaver correction and the two walk off to fuck a new universe in existence. Which is the least shit of WTA's end of times scenarios

>>96740023
To be quite fair, only the STs did anything that wasn't alcohol.
And we didn't think they'd get drunk on vodka jelly so quickly.

>>96741409
>To be fair…
No.

>>96741298
And? at this point it is clear how HtP is basically a wod primer and anthology series.

>>96741437
And if your post is true it means Werewolf is just as ass as we keep telling you furfags since normalfags don’t even want to listen to it in the background.

>>96741298
They're 2nd best episode (god bless Pyotr) is the worst viewed? That's pretty tragic
>>96741343
Haven't played any of those yet, plan on when the urge strikes me though I think I'll pirate rather than actually buy

>>96741409
That entire exercise basically did so many things I avoid like the plague
>partying
>mixing friend groups
>substance in the presence of others
>grills in hobby
Hope it at least worked out with the other ST with benefits

>>96741459
they go on sale for usually something like 80%-90% off, definitely will be on the lowest end for this upcoming halloween sale, and also probably with the arrival of bloodlines 2

>now new thread
It’s over…

>>96741506
it's only page 8 bro

>>96741510
I’m not your bro, buddy.

>>96741527
wym bro...? *pulls up shirt to reveal a blood vessel connecting our bodies* we're literal twins bro...

>>96741536
If that were true, then explain this *takes off your pants* how come your dick is so much fatter than mine, bucko?

>>96741298
It is the most recent main episode. Not to mention, it's inevitable that they were going to bleed viewers, it's hard to stay invested with such long gaps between updates. They should've tried to aim for episodes 1-3 kind of timescales. Nobody really had an issue with the animation of those episodes, and it would save them a ton of time.

At the same time, I do think episode 5 is when a lot of issues really came to a head. By all means, something that claims to be a Hunter story should involve hunting more than one type of monster. But episode 5 more or less gives up on the whodunnit formula and as a result of introducing werewolves in the way they did, wrote a lot of checks it'll take them ages to actually cash. Not to mention the massive jump from "pack of random Sabbat" to "pack of Werewolves (full Garou wank)" necessitates a fuckload of extra characters to make the odds work, which gums up the works further. Also, was I the only one who felt like the cast was being somewhat stupid in episode 5? As someone whose played a good amount of Hunter, based on the info they had at the time, they made some very questionable plays and I wasn't convinced by their logic.

>>96741539
b-bro...?!

>>96741541
I think the mistake was ambition. WoD isn't WH40K. Having all three of the big splats running simultaneously in Norfolk makes the setting claustrophobic. No one has umbrage with DoW Dark Crusade because there’s an entire planet to work with. Having every supernatural possible in a population of less than a million across 2,000 square miles is insanity.

>>96741572
I have nothing to add but Dark Crusade of my favorite game ever

>>96741541
They're leaning in hard on the "hunters don't actually know what they're doing" thing, which I can't recall if old or new lore but regardless. Whether it's esoteric stuff like one hunter and his society not realizing it was a Redcap that he saw kill that girl in college, not a vamp, or more inexperience/incompetence things like another hunter letting a vamp feed on other vamps and when it gets loose promptly leaping out a two-story window to break his everything and letting the whole rural region know about it.
Doesn't help that the one person who's actually knowledgeable is a schizo soul-mongrel who when lucid doesn't want to endanger people with knowledge that could keep them out of danger until the danger finds out.

>>96741539
>>96741570
Some Mage came by and cast steal dick girth

>>96741657
I thought “skidaddle skidoodle your dick is now a noodle” was just a meme, not an incantation…

I'm sad to say that I realize after several attempted readings that I'm too dumb to understand Mage...

>>96741541
>>96741625
I think it's a mixture of
>character bloat
>introducing stakes
The clearly want to do more than Monster of the Week but they can't do more without both introducing more large factions at play (this is still mostly focused around the Tremere Regent as the main antagonist) as well as introducing other splats to vary the formula. Werewolves was just a REALLY big leap that I don't expect will be resolved any time soon. I figure most of the viewership bleed out for one of their best episodes in pacing, animation, and VA work probably comes from the year long delay of the production and the
>sorry guys we spent 3 months on an audiolog that ballooned into 3 hours long

I really wish Chronicles had a better reception. I keep trying to get my friend group to run Beast but they just don’t want to try anything new. One girl even said “if it’s not vampires why bother”.

>>96741670
I'm starting to think Mage was made by crack heads to not be understood

>>96741679
I'd love to play CtL...

>>96741657
>Syndicate lenght deflation is real

>>96741679
>I keep trying to get my friend group to run Beast
Why?

>>96741679
>playing beast
>with a girl in the group
ishygddt

>>96741572
I'd say it's more a matter of execution than concept. I'm willing to accept that a place can be a mortal backwater but a supernatural hot spot. Especially for kinds of creatures that aren't necessarily tied to dense populations or may even benefit from having a lot of countryside to run around in. Granted, there's going to be problems with trying to fit all of the oWoD splats together anywhere (I'm not a OneWoD purist). I think the issue is we jumped rather quickly from "okay so the Sabbat isn't a major player, and the PCs just took out one of their packs... but there is a mysterious Tremere Elder that seems to be at the heart of some tunnel based conspiracy..." to "WEREWOLVES ARE HERE AND SO IS PENTEX AND THEY KIDNAPPED AN MC GO NOW!" god help us all if magefaggotry starts bleeding in

its just bloat
the video alfa used as an intro to 40k is like 5 minutes long
speakerd’s intro to wod is over an hour long
speakerd is just so incredibly self indulgent it devours any progress the rest of the team could have and hes too important for both the main chapters and norfolk wizard game to get bitch slapped down or put on the backburner

>>96741625
Oh, I'm fine with Hunters not knowing the full story, in fact I encourage it. That's not my issue with how they acted in episode 5. My issues are

Immediately going to "it's a vampire" was a questionable leap in logic. Even if a vampire could've done that (and depending on the vamp, they easily could've), the main issue is that vampires burn in sunlight and struggle to stay awake during the day. It would be extremely difficult for an infiltrator to hide their undead nature for long, because they'd only show up at night and be all but unreachable during the day. If that were the case, they'd immediately realize who matches that description (nobody). So, either the infiltrator isn't a vampire, or it isn't one of them. But let's assume they do have good reason to suspect a vampire killed Fatigue.

Splitting up to go to the armory. Guns aren't an ideal weapon against vampires, so splitting the group to get them is questionable. They're a lot better than nothing, but if a vampire attacks you in a chaotic, close quarters situation, you're more likely to blow your friend's head off than do any real damage to the vampire. Fire and blades would be better, and they're easier to get.

The last thing that really annoyed me was Occam, and this partially goes into the previous episode as well. Occam's "blood test" being done by himself was a really bad idea. Not only did it leave him open to being ganked, but if he just showed up an hour later and said "Grimal's the ghoul, get her", the ghoul would have a very good defense of "none of us saw you do the ritual, you could be the ghoul and you used the time alone in the archives to steal the data and pick a scapegoat." it added needless points of failure to his plan. And why the fuck did he leave Marckus alone and try to drive a wedge between Kitten and the cell in the middle of a crisis situation?

>>96741751
I agree with all of your points, but to play Devil’s advocate, I think a writer believes Occam’s blood investigation could cause Paradox, which is why Occam wanted to be left alone (also why isn’t he voiced by Plague of Gripes?).

>>96741674
>Werewolves was just a REALLY big leap
It has a lot of baggage attached to it, but the bigger issue is that it was introduced abruptly, as a huge J-turn from the extant plot (Tremere fucking shits want our data, let's find a ghoul). But they don't have the upload speed to keep that sudden "oh shit everything's going down" momentum going.

>>96741769
>Occam’s blood investigation could cause Paradox

Isn't he very explicitly a Sorcerer and teleported in front of an entire room of people?

>>96741778
Yes, which is why I think that mistake is solely a writer’s misunderstanding. The possibility that the entire Arcanum are actively backstabbing the Arcanum exists, however, but we don’t have enough evidence of that yet. We do have evidence of bad writing (Kronik needed permission to go to the Philippines so he went to the Philippines to move infants around to get the permission to go to the Philippines under the guise of looking for the kids he moved around in the Philippines).

>>96741679
>I really wish Chronicles had a better reception.
Vigil and Lost unironically get a lot of love, despite Paradox's attempt to utterly destroy CofD. I also love taking ideas from Requiem (I get why it had such a negative reception, but it really doesn't deserve the hate) and recently I've come around on Forsaken hard.

>>96741541
The animation style they landed on is so weird and off-putting, paper dolls would've suited whatever they wanted to do way better.

>>96741769
>>96741778
Yes Occam is a Sorcerer using their homebrew Solar Sorcery stuff, the reason he wanted to be alone I thought was quite clear mostly so that they could surprise the ghoul with the information rather than the ghoul anticipating that his blood will react and acting out suddenly. Essentially he was trying to make the situation easier to manage by allowing the ghoul to either second guess the ritual or by surprising it with the speed of it

>>96741832
I'm not sure I agree with his assessment then. If you are under the impression that you are only dealing with a ghoul (what they believed at the time) why would you want the ghoul to be able to contest your accusation rather than be in a room with over a dozen other people who could easily subdue and pummel them? By all means, have everyone frisked and disarmed before the ritual begins then if you're afraid of the ghoul pulling a concealed carry.

Or, put more briefly, if there is nobody who can corroborate that your ritual actually did anything, you aren't making an argument, you're just asserting that there is no way you could be compromised, and everyone has to trust you.

>>96741858
oh, and to add to that, he trusted everyone outside the room to not immediately wander off and get into trouble when they had been fighting since the minute they got there and he had been the only reliable mediator so far.

Honestly from my perspective Occam came off as very suspicious in both ep 4 and 5 because he was asserted to be the level head in the room but was routinely throwing.

I'm writing a character who is turning out to make more a lot more sense as a chick than a dude, but I've never roleplayed and don't know how I would realistically roleplay a chick. Should I just make the character a dude and save myself the headache? How often do you guys run into this problem?

Hello, HtV ST here hoping to get some help.
I've got an idea for a werewolf npc that my Hunter cell is going to encounter, but I don't know enough about either versions of Werewolf to really know which version to choose, let alone the details like tribe or auspice. I figure if I describe him/his pack, I could get suggestions on what makes sense and what doesn't.
>group of werewolves in Southwest Virginia
>Living out in one of the wilderness areas
>Their day-to-day goal is combating the deer overpopulation caused by humans killing off their bigger predators
>As easy as it would be to slaughter them by the hundreds, it would attract too much attention
>Instead they pose as hunters, hunting and shooting deer all year long
>Marcus is the thinker of the pack
>Came up with the posing as hunters idea in the first place
>very gruff and a bit curt, but is always the first to consider compromises amongst the pack
>The rest of the pack considers him the softie
Thanks for any help in advance.

>>96741343
>>96741473
Speaking of these, which are the best and worth playing?

>>96741858
Well, Occam also let himself get caught with his pants down despite that he should have known about entrances, he also dated D, frequently failed to manage the situation, repeatedly split the party. He's trying his best I'm sure but he wasn't exactly very reliable at managing the group

>>96741866
If it's not a fetish thing you can make them a chick and it will be fine. Just have more emotional responses and be more open to other people’s suggestions, and be more passive-aggressive rather than intimidating. If it’s a fetish thing, stop.

>>96741670
It's not that complex, it's just (somewhat intentionally) contradictory.

>>96741866
>but I've never roleplayed and don't know how I would realistically roleplay a chick.
It's not as hard as you think it is, in ye olden days dude actors played women all the time. That being said it might not be easy to start by playing a woman. I was averse to it until I started running games, by necessity had to play members of the opposite sex and realized that doing that didn't turn me into a fag.

What's the concept and why does it make more sense as a woman?

>>96741862
I think Occam was just overwhelmed

>>96741888
By reliable, I meant "the one authority figure that was able to stop D and Remold from fighting".

I'm not disagreeing that Occam bungled it hard. He absolutely did.

>>96741870
>but I don't know enough about either versions of Werewolf to really know which version to choose, let alone the details like tribe or auspice.

Genuine question. If you're running Hunter... do you need to get into matters of tribe and auspice? It's not the kind of thing even uncharacteristically friendly Werewolves would explain to the PCs. Not to mention unless you use Forsaken mechanics or homebrew such things as tribes and auspices don't even exist.

>>96741879
only played shadows of new york
it was good but if you don't like girlboss characters or lesbians, you might not enjoy it
if going by reviews, coteries of new york is only slightly less rated, and reckoning has much poorer ratings. i'm waiting for a steeper sale to give those a try

>>96741903
I could see that; the question is will the story acknowledge he buckled under stress and made several huge mistakes?

Though I still am not sure that any amount of stress can justify trying to get Kitten to defect mid crisis situation when a man is dead. That's "villain intentionally trying to create cracks amongst the heroes" shit. Try to get him to defect to the Arcanum when we aren't on defcon one, you paddy fuck.

>>96741866
Here's all you need to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8

>>96741928
He’s the only gay orangutan to ever exist, he was never fit for leadership. Give the keys to Remold and let’s be done with it.

>>96741907
Yes he had his moment at the start but I think the character mannerisms and expressions really hammered down that he was letting the stress build up past his limit somewhat, not entirely on him because the vents bit was something only Grimal knew about
>>96741928
We'll have to see, but tbf he wasn't telling him to defect rather explaining that Kitten was "one of the good ones" and still welcome. Kitten was also rather vocal that he was still salty about getting kicked out because of his association with Markus and D instead of for his own errors

>>96741918
>If you're running Hunter... do you need to get into matters of tribe and auspice?
That's the problem, I don't know if I do or not. From what I understand, your Auspice is like what moon you were born under, or first changed under, or something. The tribes are like the different compacts/conspiracies?
>Not to mention unless you use Forsaken mechanics or homebrew such things as tribes and auspices don't even exist.
Do you mean in Hunter? Well yeah of course, this guy's just an NPC. I just want to know what sort of external forces might influence his decision-making so I can keep it in mind when doing dialogue and stuff.

>>96741927
I don't mind girlboss or lesbos as long as the writing is good and characters are hot frankly

>>96741957
yeah, you'll like it
it's a very good portrayal of a lasombra imo

>>96741954
for Hunter you don't really need to get into the detail of tribes or auspices unless you think the PC's will be very insistent on involving themselves with the werewolves and even then that's just a crazy unnecessary danger for them in a place where no one will really trust them. The most they'll get trusted with is maybe the tribe name or a general statement of what their mission is. Even the most liberal werewolf pack would probably not trust outsider humans with anything political or spiritual.
If you're thinking about what external forces might influence his decision making it's mostly around how useful the party can be without allowing them to get too close or involved in the pack unless they're willing to become breeding slaves or something (unlikely anyway). If he can send them off on some dangerous thing without getting Garou involved or implicated that'd probably be a good deal for him if they're one of the less extreme tribes I figure. Grain of salt though it's all up to you and what you understand of the lore

>>96741938
>Give the keys to Remold and let’s be done with it.

I dunno if it's a funny accident or artistic genius that the Blacklaws ended up coming out of the incident so well. Remold is very much written as the inherent antagonist but he
>was suspicious of the help, and one of the help was in fact a culprit
>actually destroyed the data, meaning that even if they all died, the enemy wouldn't get what they were after
>was skeptical of Big FrauD

Captain Car Battery came out like the MVP of the entire boondoggle.

>>96741953
He was clearly pissed from the word go, but a leader that cracks under pressure isn't a very good leader. Everyone has their limit to be sure, but relative to others he reached his limit easily and made critical mistakes as a result. I will die on the hill that doing the ritual alone was needless with the information they had at the time. Also, whatever his intention was, otherizing D's cell while the crisis is still ongoing is a horrible idea. You do not want to sow distrust and division when there is an unknown threat amongst your ranks.

>>96741954
>I just want to know what sort of external forces might influence his decision-making so I can keep it in mind when doing dialogue and stuff.

If you really want to bring in the heavy baggage that comes from either oWoD or nWoD Werewolf just to get into a character's head better, I suggest you bite the bullet and read the lore for yourself. I prefer Forsaken myself, which version of Werewolf someone prefers is heavily a matter of personal taste.

>>96741889
Makes sense. And no, it's not a fetish thing, I'd be much more comfortable with a dude, and I understand that I do not understand the female brain
>>96741901
The character was born into a strict family with very old fashioned values, and they disliked being controlled by someone who sits on top and who everyone listens to - the father. They managed to break out and set a life on their own, until the tragic embrace, which left them clanless too, to boot. They were given an opportunity by a Giovanni, but that would mean going back to... serving under a family, and a much worse one at that.
I think a man would simply understand his position, and understand some things have to be done because they have to be done. But I want a character who is at odds with themselves, and it makes more sense as a chick, I think...?. She's not a "down with the patriarchy" butch punk, but she's seriously tired of getting told what to do by older men.
>>96741932
Noted....

>>96741986
Even Brock was kind of a chad for trying to keep Markus out of danger, the Blacklaws definitely went in with a bad impression and came out much better. As for the other part, I think part of the reason he went into the ritual alone was that if he kept D and Remold around he would be worried that the ghoul would probably make short work of the rest of the Arcanum, most of whom aren't specced for actual Hunter work or injured other than Kitten, D, and Remold. It was a hard situation, and D bringing the data forward so willingly should cast some suspicion on his group as well despite our PoV. I think perhaps Occam just got dealt a very shit hand

>>96742017
>female brain
If you want the lowdown to RP'ing a chick
>don't accept responsibility
>passive aggressiveness
>gaslight, girlboss, etc
>get other people to do things for you
That's a rather rough but basic guide to trying to RP a girl

>>96742026
Gatekeep, because it makes you seem valuable.
If that doesn’t work, girlboss because it makes you seem important.
If that doesn’t work, gaslight because it makes you seem like you’re being mistreated.
If that doesn’t work, commit murder to get rid of the problem. Them repeat steps 1-3 when you’re investigated.

>>96742034
Based, frankly

>>96742034
I know this is just a meme but it’s weird because my mom would do this all the time while I was growing up but to be fair she is bipolar so whatever

>>96742017
I think you're putting a little too much stock into sex here. Men can have daddy issues and grow resentful of gerontocracy and overly controlling families as well.

>>96742045
>he doesn’t realize all women are bipolar
you ever hear the phrase
can’t live with them can’t live without them
?

>>96741998
I mean, if it'll be more trouble than it's worth I don't wanna do it. The rest of his pack's been killed anyway, so I don't even know if it's important to know.

>>96742021
Yeah Brock in the pub log was a borderline psycho bully. Brock in this stood on business.

>if he kept D and Remold around he would be worried that the ghoul would probably make short work of the rest of the Arcanum
Just keep everyone present. You will not convince me that it's somehow a bad thing to have everyone present to see you do your ghoul-detecting magic and then be present to jump the singular ghoul. If 12 people can't restrain one ghoul without incident and a literal magic box to throw the ghoul in, then you guys deserve to have your data stolen.

>>96742048
I couldn't in my right mind accept playing as a guy with daddy issues, even if it is as realistic
But you might be right

>>96742066
Unless you want this NPC to show up again, or to be used as a gateway to later werewolf and werewolf related fuckery, I think it is a lot of trouble for relatively diminishing returns. If I recall correctly, this character's primary purpose was to guide the PCs out of the wilderness after a plane crash, and provide an example through this mysterious guide that not everything supernatural is hostile per se?

>>96733615 (OP)
> buy the humble bundle
> renegades dowload service is so shit i look for a megalink instead
thanks anons for compiling this shit, this is what i get for supporting official means like a good bootlicker i guess

>>96742090
Ultimately, it's your choice to play whoever and whatever you want to play. Ask yourself the following questions:
>Which is more uncomfortable, RPing a woman or RPing a dude with daddy issues?
>How married am I to this idea?
>Do I have any other PC concepts I may want to pursue instead?

>>96742092
Yeah, that was me. I've developed the idea some more since then, which has shifted things a bit.
>The Hunters are boarding a jet flight to West Virginia, but a gremlin (the WWII type) has stowed aboard and is gonna sabotage the flight mid-air unless they do something
>Except it turns out you couldn't open the door on a plane mid-flight even if you tried due to the air pressure differential oops lmao
>Also planes fly way faster nowadays so this thing has to be R E A L L Y strong to be able to climb across the wing mid-flight without getting flung off
>So plane crashes and the gremlin escapes into the woods
>runs into Werewolf pack and kills most of them and escapes
>Now the Werewolf and the Hunters have a shared goal, to fuck this gremlin up

>>96742101
>>Do I have any other PC concepts I may want to pursue instead?
Yeah, I just think it's my favorite concept so far because there's a bunch of other stuff going on. Lots of hooks for the ST.

>>96742130
Has the crash already happened or is this just session planning?

>>96742174
It's session planning. While I know they've got things they can do while in the plane, I legit couldn't think of anything they'd be able to do to prevent the crash so I've been preparing for after it happens.

>>96742181
Not to provide you with further doubts, but why does the Gremlin need to be very powerful and on the outside of the plane? Why couldn't it be weaker but entered the plane before it took off? Then the players can have a chance at stopping it.

I say this because there's certainly some people here that will balk at the notion of Hunters being able to do anything to a creature that can kill most of a Werewolf pack, even if it takes them by surprise. Unfortunately, every version of official WoD werewolves (the auspice + tribe kind) comes with a lot of baggage, it's why the much more agnostic Spirit Slayers is usually recommended for HtV Werewolf plots. I'll give you a very short QRD on Auspice + Tribe in both Apoc and Forsaken to give you some place to start if you still wanna go that route, but it could have long-lasting consequences if you decide to commit to either.

>>96742142
If I may be so bold…

After reading your posts, I would like to share that females generally oppose authority due to physical reasons. Women rebel against their family because of an expectation to be breedable. Women tend to break conformity specifically to incite their parents, particularly their fathers, because women don’t want to become a wife or mother, but rather remain a daughter under the assumption they are “independent” for rejecting the expectations put on them to mature. A female in your story would work if she had a Brujah nonconformist, was a Toreador whore, or even a Gangrel that rejected the idea of personal beautification or putting in heirs.

A man, meanwhile, tends to reject authority for spiritual reasons. They are the ones who abandon power for true love, or give up their career in a hospital to join Doctors Without Borders. That’s not to say women CAN’T do these things, but they tend to not do this as an act of rebellion. Men harm themselves physically to rebel spiritually, while women harm themselves spiritually to rebel physically.

If you want your PC to be taken in by the Giovanni, then it’s more suitable for a male to reject their family business to work in the slums directly to provide charitable aid, only to get fucked over by a Sabbat mass embrace that turns sour when the Camarilla arrives to clear everyone out and your PC is lucid enough and of a proper education when living to be considered worthy of keeping unalive. Your PC went looking for an escape from their family for MORAL reasons, only to be taken in by the most AMORAL family in Vampire. This is the dramatic irony that would frame your PC.

>>96742204
Throughout the airport I was doing a "Terror at 20,000 Feet" thing where only one of the Hunters would see glimpses of the Gremlin and was unable to get anybody else to see it. It even manages to taint photos of it to up the paranoia. I feel like it'd defuse the tension that I've been ramping up? I'm amenable to better ideas, of course.
When it comes to the Werewolf, I had already talked up Werewolves when I was explaining aggravated damage, so I just assumed I'd run WoD/CofD Werewolves. What sort of long-lasting consequences are you referring to?

>>96742278
not him but which is funnier
“there’s… something on the wing…!”
“I AM TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW THAT MOTHERFUCKER BACK THERE IS NOT REAL”

>>96742209
That's pretty deep insight into male/female psychology, or sociology or whatever it is. I never considered the sex as important until now. I appreciate the serious response

I'd like to imagine the character is someone who was always very intelligent and independent, someone who isn't a fool and has a knack for things, yet for tragic reasons, is always forced back into a system to get told what to do again. And it's at that point where they may rebel not out of difference, but out of habit. They hated their family in life and they kept that trait in their death.

I guess I might just keep the sex uncertain now and adjust it later, if I ever get the chance to bring them to a story. I don't intend to make it a big trait, but I am conflicted on which side of the coin I'm on. Maybe it will be a coin toss.

>>96742278
>I feel like it'd defuse the tension that I've been ramping up?

I'm not sure I see how it would. They're in a plane, if it's a normal jet liner, they're in a plane with many other people. A monster does not need to be a massive ball of stats to be dangerous, or capable of causing a lot of harm. It's a creature that can cause an airplane to crash magically. It doesn't need to be able to physically climb on the outside or rip through a pack of werewolves (especially if you've been talking them up, how strong will you need to make it to justify that?!). I also think it could be dissonant for your players to make it some sort of combat powerhouse when Gremlins, even in the WW2 aviation context, are characterized as sneaky, often intangible until they want to be little shits.

The creature is dangerous because it's hard to spot, they're on a public flight where they can't run around tearing up floorboards, and if they fail everyone it at the mercy of the captain's controlled landing and the plane's safety features. I understand that if they can stop the plane crash, they skip the Werewolf plot entirely, but at the same time I would caution against putting your players in absolutely unwinnable situations where they can't even run damage control. It's a gateway drug to hardcore railroading.

>>96742295
Then what you want is a character who is a pathological narcissist. They don’t have to be an aggressive one, but one that negatively impacts the ability to make close connections with others. They threw the family business’ quarterly earnings into the red because they made a deal with long-term benefits that won’t be realized for 5 years. The last partner they had they drove off because your PC kept showing them how to do basic tasks like cooking or exercising “better”, ruining their partnership activities… but who cares, since now your PC doesn’t have to worry about burnt food or not getting gains at the gym? Who needs friends that are just going to keep talking the PC into bad plans like possibly getting an STD from a random hook-up at a party?

The tragic circumstances leading your PC back to their family are self-inflicted because your PC IS intelligent and DOES have a knack, but in their spiral of frustration they keep refusing to communicate with others and ends up making mistakes as a result when everything could have been avoided if they had just trusted OTHERS to be intelligent and have a knack.

If this is the route you want to take, then the drama is that the PC could have always gone back to their living family and always had a chance to get out of their circumstances if they had just decided to make a personal change. No matter what they did in life, their family was willing to take them back, and the PC BLAMED them for “them setting up the circumstances forcing the PC to come back to them”, when that was never true. It was the PC’s own doing and severing connections that did that.

Now, they’re trapped in a family they can never leave, and they can’t ever undo the mistake that led them to being a vampire. Their flaws have caught up to them, and now they need to discover just how intelligent and how much of a knack they have to keep their humanity… or continue their self-destructive behavior and become exactly what the Giovanni wants.

>>96742288
That is... quite a convincing example.
>>96742310
and that's a good point, I don't wanna immediately hit the Werewolves with the Worf Effect. I guess it'd be better to make the situation more interactive, and if they manage to let the Gremlin crash the plane, then I just have it get chewed up by the Werewolves.
Thanks for the outside perspective, I got too caught up in my own trappings that I didn't see the potential better options! I'll have to do some thinking... but it'll be from a new angle now.

>>96742288
Ah fuck you

>>96742278
>>96742310
Following up on the "long lasting consequences" of introducing Werewolves... neither Werewolf game just introduces Werewolves. It also introduces Spirits, in a vaguely animist sense, as well as a whole other host of antagonists and in some cases, setting fixtures. Some players and STs are fine with taking a single thing and discarding or not dwelling on the rest, but it can cause other types of people to start getting expectations that now everything is legit. Here's the QRD, I am an expert on neither.

>WtA
Apoc is one of the most skub lines of oWoD, see some earlier posts in the thread for evidence. Very love it or hate it, in fact I am sure someone will have an issue with my short description of them. Garou are a supernatural creature, allegedly created by Gaia, the spirit of the earth itself to be her warriors. They do not spread by bites; they must reproduce with humans or wolves to make more of themselves. These days they primarily battle against the forces of the Wyrm, a primordial, godlike spirit of entropy and destruction that was driven insane in ancient times by one of his counterparts, the Weaver, a similar spirit of order and stasis. Garou are theoretically heroic, but practically rat bastards who cause more harm than good. It also opens up the massive can of worms called The Umbra. It is also notably, oWoD, and you're running Vigil, which while setting agnostic, would add an additional barrier mechanically.

>WtF
In Forsaken, the Uratha are the descendants of Father Wolf and Mother Moon, two godly spirits from the dawn of time. Once, there was no barrier between the world of spirit and world of flesh, but the two were sundered around the time Father Wolf was killed by his children. The Uratha are divided into two major camps, the Forsaken, who view it as their sacred duty to uphold balance between spirit and flesh and the Pure, who hate the moon and want to fuse the Spirit and Flesh again.

>>96741670
If you can't understand the whole thing,try to understand a part,i began studying MtA with simple stuff that could be referenced to my players with well known movies or pieces of culture,created a scenario in the vicinity of my home region and just rolled with it with not that much informations about the big lore,just what you need to understand how a character works and at almost every session,i learned something because players asked me stuff after the session and that's how i came from a group with disparates and traditions to a full technocracy group that i know (mostly) how their conventions work
The lore is important but the system isn't that hard and the sphere system can be simplified,just try piece by piece,anon

>>96742336
>and the PC BLAMED them for “them setting up the circumstances forcing the PC to come back to them”,
Man I love this, but I hate that I would've never thought of it this way. Maybe I am an unaware pathological narcissist, or more likely I'd like to think, I just suck at writing. I need to start reading real books...

Thanks again for the pointers.

>>96742278
The Gremlin should die in the plane crash, or at least become seriously injured. If a single being can take out most of a werewolf pack, then there's no way throwing more werewolves + a few hunters is going to do anything to it unless it is impaired in some way.

>>96742398
The only reason other people, like myself, have ideas is because someone else shared their own ideas. If you feel guilty, don’t be. It’s your character. I just want you to have stable ground to grow your PC and, in turn, grow yourself by exploring what you would do in a given hypothetical situation.

But, a little more reading never hurt…

>>96742374
Ohh... I'm not interested in developing some sort of spirit world when I haven't even developed the regular world, no thanks.
>>96742402
but big number good, surely bigger number better, yes?

Can vampires grow their claws at will, like their fangs?

>>96742491
Protean 2, yes.

>>96735084
>Mages also did nothing wrong
ask any mage what they were doing between 1939 and 1945

>>96742509
IT WAS A WORK CAMP
ALL WE DID WAS ASK THEM TO WORK with us for purely scientific purposes

>>96742502
so not without a discipline?

>>96742515
Vampires can’t even see in the dark without using a discipline.

>>96742522
Anon please don't tell me they need a discipline to enter a house uninvited

>>96742530
Okay, I won’t.

:^)

>>96742533
<:^(

you make vampires sound like they lick bootyhole…

>>96742548
that's dangerous, it could close

>>96742564
My brother once lost a finger because a girl closed her asshole when he was fingering it.

>>96739061
Fae as presented in changeling are too content to sit in their own pond. The other splats save demons aren't even resistant to the Mists, so none of them can really bother the Fae. The fae have 0 interest in maintaining a Masquerade of sorts beyond the threat of Dauntain and maybe the Imbued. I think the Mists shouldn't work on other supernaturals and fae's seemings should show up to aura perception abilities (namely Auspex and Mind.)
>>96739408
I think the only fae you can outright become without having possessed a fae soul since birth are selkies.

Oh on the topic of the mists and selkies, I'm kinda confused as to what you're supposed to do with merfolk as presented in Blood-Dimmed Tides. So they're fae... who are fae from birth... and rarely if ever come to the surface... so they don't engage with the normal drama of being fae. I guess they're set dressing for if your motley ever goes to sea? Yet again because of how the Mists work, Rokea shouldn't be able to interact with them effectively. I've always been a little surprised there isn't an option for your normal human to go through their chrysalis and end up as a merfolk, like the Little Mermaid in reverse or The 13th Year.

>>96740289
No, because the Rokea do not care. From W20 core, what Rokea have to say about Mokole:
"You are the Memory, little brothers and sisters, not because we do not remember but because we do not care."
They aren't dishonest but they're not scrupulous either. Their myth works for them and gets them to do the right thing, why bother questioning it and making sure it's perfectly accurate?

>>96740781
they all do, not just females
>>96740815
either because nihilism is a good thing because Set is going to end the world or because only in nihilism can you find Nietzsche-ism because Set is going to save the world. In order to keep the Setites from just being "evil snake men" vampires the writers kept adding more contradictory doctrines to the religion and giving it more splinter sects to make understanding what's actually going on with it as confusing as possible. I love it, it makes them feel like the most "occult" clan. Setites have degrees of initiation so they don't even know what they're about. Level 2 Setites think they need to spread vice to bring about the coming of Apep then when they are initiated into Level 3 they're told that they must stop the spread of vice to prevent the coming of Apep. Whatever the methuselahs down in Uganda believe, that's for the ST to decide. Whether the methuselahs even control most of the rest of the clan, is also for the ST to decide.
Basically, there are four possibilities: Set is good, or Set is evil. The Setites are doing what Set wants, or the Setites are not doing what Set wants.

>page 10
>no new thread
owari da…

>>96742530
This is a flaw you can pick up if you want

new thread
>>96742740