Thread 96799468

Accidental Encounter Edition

>What is this?
/TG/ DEVELOPED A GAME
IT IS PLAYABLE. IT HAS BEEN PLAYED.
EXPEDITION is a ~1880s era, Jules Verne-inspired retro-futurist, underground blood soaked adventurescape.
It is a Skirmish wargame. Two players with their own expeditions, on a hexgrid map, explore & fight each other for victory and profit.

3 versions of the rules exist, 2 of which have been playtested. The main one is 2e, to be found :
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/us7vnek39dc6k/AgarthaRules
as with maps, tokens and lore resources.

>TL;DR Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LxdaGoBlJRTMuziMDupG5TeeFwNDnsIW2pfaRAcFDgA
>Main Lore Doc, including links to anon-written short stories and additional lore in "Recommended..." section
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRrxdD1BMLmcMDFeszwqg2Rcjrt8DDo7tjAxoOB6KQ8
>3e Rules Doc (READY FOR MORE PLAYTESTS)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ZpHhEyUbjt-SCx2xuAd0lyh7Rs4J7rK5kHkljqykhk/
>Unit Spreadsheet - Currently outdated, requires an update
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rcleQtrT4Q0INiBW50-kq2ZXWJ-cjLOeVTLTJg_oX5E
>Unit Design Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n0X89OdMPXJKQGm6kYcOABjhjE4NZER1fvmpDmDX1JA
Wiki
>https://eadsttcoteg.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page
Kaiser Anon's audiodrama (now complete!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwfxQxrHe4M&list=PLKLbVXLsxBBw1EHR-81wTYMJkWKKiQFfH

>What can I do?
Shitpost, meme, get comfy. Read over the docs to settle in.
Familiarize yourself with rules and ask for an intro game or participate in playtests. If you are interested in designing a faction for a wargame, this is the place.
Contribute if you have ideas. Give feedback on contributions if you don't.

>TQ: What exactly happened in Halifax?

>Previous Thread
>>96678434

Archived threads in suptg here.

https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Wargame+Political+Compass

Last thread archived

https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2025/96678434/

>>96799380
>more death in the lower corridor, this time on both sides
>i am forced to rally again, and this time to spend 1 LP, locking me out of "letting all men know"
>Warm Meals are given to the late comers, and one Snacks while the other Affixes
>the Landwehr in the upper foothills and the north most Revanchist exchange hits
>the Revanchist with the Pyroclastic Flow had eaten a Warm Meal himself last turn. i feel very much like i'm screwed, him having eaten too early, preventing me from using the Pyroclastic Flow to it's full effect without condemning him to death. 2eanon and i work out how i can make the most of a bad situation
>he engages the Landwehr in the foothills using the extra movement from the Flow, Grievously burning the already Deeply wounded Landwehr
>he then unloads his Kalthoff into the burning man, revealing them both of the need to Disengage
>with the tip of his Affixed Bayonet, he swiftly removes the near Anomalist's head, before booking back behind the Wall
>the Landwehr are now Panicked, forcing 2eanon to Rally.
>i move the Agarthan Fisherman up

>>96799468 (OP)
>TQ:
I can go for a writeup today or tomorrow if I remember. The Fenian ram seems like a very good fit, for a start at least.

>>96799596
I mean, I didn't design them, I think it was 2e anon, but I imagine it was meant a reference to the heavy use of mines during the Crimean war. Anomalies function as traps mechanically, so they work with them too. I built on it mechanically when making the Tsardom units by giving their Engineer a mine laying ability against which the Crimean Vets work as a counter.

>>96800005
>Anomalies function as traps mechanically
Wait, do they actually or am I misremembering?

Ok, after a long process of checking all of the dates, I think I have a rough draft of how the timeline should look like. I have moved some dates and added a ton of OTL dates for context (the ones that would happen regardless of agarthan weirdness).

Other than the stuff yet to be written, like the Sebastianist stuff or the Taiping Revolution, the two events I've not gone too much into detail are the Second Oriental Crisis (because that still needs a lot of discussion, I've left some dates as reference but that's as far as I'm going before discussing this further) and how the Hokkaido stuff ended up (did the Mu keep the island or did Japan retake it? I'm warming up to the second option, but we still have to explain it). Also a couple of notes in certain dates.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

>>96800170
Forgot too add Doggerland. Fuck.

>>96799604
We played a bit into the 4th turn before 2eanon gave me the game.
>both parties retreat, and chose to blame the Lost Men: a diplomatic crisis is narrowly averted.
Believe the final Silver totals were

Austrians: 77
NSR: 71 + 25 (Pyroclastic Flow)

Dread I don't remember.
>comments
I believe this game was itself an anomaly. I rolled an atrocious amount of criticals, often on 2s and 3s, but also sometimes 7, and those 7s where the really harsh ones, as they are what killed the Specialists. Even with my good rolls, I won off anomalies. If it wasn’t for that very specific interaction with the Pyroclasic flow, I would have lost for sure.

That the Danes got more attention in the batrep isn’t favoritism, it’s just that they did more. Austrians just kinda stood there and fired. It would’ve worked, too. The Anomalous Shell never got a chance to get fired, or I don’t remember that it did. Also, having the Specialists near the front, while it gave him good volume of fire, it was also quite the risk. A solution to both issues might be to change the range on the Kropatschek Mechanism from a static 3, to Awareness of the model spending AP. Maybe lower the Awareness of the models that can do it, and give them Faction access to Growing Insight, and a trait that allows a model to pick up Unknown Tokens to “increase Awareness for the purposes of Activating the Kropatschek Mechanism”? It would help give the faction a more dynamic feel, I think.

Offensive Unknown tokens don’t work; they are too random. Rather, they should be treated like an econ thing. Put them on your side of the board, and try to collect them, either as Artifacts, or with Isolation Jars. The Anomalous Shell and Grenade should not have the chance to spawn as Artifacts, otherwise you are litterly throwing money at your enemy.

>>96800233
>comments continued
If the Landwehr is going to be cut, this doesn’t matter, but it should really be 7 Silver, not 8. I should say, I don’t think it should be cut, though I can understand the reasoning. I should also say, the Untergrenzer should absolutely not be cut, because without it there is no ‘basic infantry’, no ‘core’ model, that has a normal interaction with Ethnic.
On the PKZ, 2eanon pointed out that it goes with the Field Telephone; I’d like to point out what a static interaction that is.

As for the NSR, they should also, I think, be lowered to 7. Quickshot Kalthoff is overvalued, and their stats are really nothing remarkable. I will say, I’m less sure of this than I was, because I realize I should have had 2 more on the board than I did. One idea is to put Quickshot on the Kalthoff itself, and bring its cost to 2. Another idea is that, seeing as they are going to be transmuted into a Faction unite, drop the Kalthoff. A Hyperborean version of it already exists as the Time Gun, and that’s probably a more fitting place for such a weapon anyway.
While the Kalthoff is overvalued, Assault Commander, it seems, is undervalued. The Warfare Existentialist and NSR Commander should have their costs increased, at least by 3, but maybe more like 5.

>>96800311
>Golden Syndicate
We talked about our next game, and it came up I might play them again as part of a Neptunium Baron list. I suggested Nothing But Glory lose its last clause, that says effected models don’t generate Dread. Maybe have it only effect Soldiers with Affixed Bayonets, instead of all Soldiers, and have it give Semi-Expendable instead? I like that idea. I still think the reward for Affixing Bayonets is too little...
Bayonet Training is too prevalent; the Kentuckian Rebel ought to have it regardless. Or, maybe he gets some bonus for Affixing, or they Affix automatically, or automatically after one does Manually? I'd rather just give them the common rule, but I can understand wanting Bayonets to not be the go to weapon, but for them (and to a lesser extant the Imperial Japanese Armyman) specifically, I feel it makes good sense. Automatic Affixing would go well with Automatic Alcohol, like we talked about changing Shot of Moonshine to with the Alcohol change, it would give them a sort of mechanical theme, and it could even be under the same rule "This model does not spend AP when Consuming Alcohol or Affixing a Bayonet".

>>96800170
The Eternal war starts in the mid 16th century during the period of conquistador contact. Atlan/Atlantis don't lose contact during the fall of Atlantis anymore.

Is there a version of the timeline out there you'd be willing to share? There might be a way to do it anonymously and let people put suggestions instead of edits.

>>96800333
>effected models don’t generate Dread
I think when I wrote that I meant for it to say something like "only take dread at the end of the turn for any models lost" but it was 1 am and the rules came out evil and twisted
Or maybe I'm George Lucas gaslighting myself.

Either way, I agree with the bayonet thing. They were a premier weapon of the age so I don't see too much of an issue with them being good. Colonials getting into melee is already a bad situation most of the time so throwing them a bone isn't the worst. Now, giving bayonet abilities to the weird number of armored colonials might be a bridge too far.

>>96797725
>I beseech the proponent to consider these words and consult the sources
Shall and am.
>>96799213
>it might be interesting to have any form of a wider scandi faction be in a developmental stage where they're only just starting to collaborate instead of being a coalesced union
I agree. That's my intent.
>>96797644
>Wasn't containing Greenland why UK and US made up and kissed after the Fenians had their wild ride?
Makes sense to me. Even if that wasn't how it was (it rings a bell), its a good way for it to be.
>>96797636
I say we change it to when it makes sense, and come up with the reason later. Maybe Halifax? That might be putting too much on one event. It would have to be something underground. I can't happen before Halifax, at least, i think.

>>96800502
Doggerland and Paris makes sense to me, one goes up and the other goes down. Maybe just have it so Doggerland isn't fully formed until a while later

>>96800488
>"only take dread at the end of the turn for any models lost"
That would be fine too. I like the idea of Semi-Expendable on a high Discipline model, and limiting the rule to Soldiers with Affixed Bayonets, rather than all Soldiers. Maybe "don't take Dread until the end of turn" is a blanket thing, but then the rest of the rule only apply to Soldiers with Affixed Bayonets? I'm not in love with Semi-Expendable, and it may be too much together.
>They were a premier weapon of the age so I don't see too much of an issue with them being good
You misunderstand me.
It's already a good cheap weapon. Training with it had models with 5 Acc hitting on 7, because it already gives 1 Acc (and Eva). Anyway, they weren't more premier than blackpowder, and that can sometimes be the case. Bayonet Training shouldn't be this default thing all colonials get. If we want to give colonials some default Bayonet bonus, it ought to be giving "Affix Bayonets" on many Leaders. It's good on the BAP, Kentuckian Rebel, and IJA, but otherwise i'm wary of it.
>Colonials getting into melee is already a bad situation
Not against other colonials. Against other colonials, it's often a good thing for whoever forced the melee.

>>96800588
The semi-expendable thing works for me. Having it limited to affixed bayonet models seems a little strangely worded but seems alright.

I admit freely that I forgot about weapon accuracy bonuses when thinking about training. That does put a different shade on matters.

>>96800170
>5000 BC
I don't really mind, I've given up on trying to make it make any semblance of sense, but be ready for people to tell how it absolutely must take place like 1 million years ago then refuse to elaborate.
>Eternal War
Mapanon, pls, we retconned that. >>96800467
Do we really need all those irrelevant historical dates? Napoleon is important to the lore, but do we need the Mexican-American war or the Opium War or the Belgian revolution. I'm literally autistic and I find this excessive. Funnily enouh you did miss the somewhat relevant Polish uprising in 1863.
>1848 Vulcanists
I believe the intention was to point out that they've been infiltrated by that point. Small nitpick: Carbonari were *reformed* under Vulcanist influence, the original organization died in the 30s.
>>Italy post 1860 should be just Italy
>1864 Alexander II attempt and eye
Where did you even get that from? And it happens before the Tsardom even has any colonies? Before Karakozov? Leave this one to me please.
>the Danish speleologists discover the entrance
Lidenbrock would've told everyone already?
>No 1868 Paris Commune
>War of the Tyrant
War of the Coals
>Kulturkrieg and Germany
Will have to be rewritten/clarified with Kaiser's input because I feel there has been some confusion about what was supposed to set it off. Like, I actually have a point here, I swear.
I feel the African colonies might have to be established before the Crisis, if we do want Germans in the Gulf, but it's not critical.
>Crisis and the Russo-Turkish war
Naturally will need some changes soon-ish, as we didn't settle it yet. I'll post it in some hours.
I will insist on the later Ethiopean war for many reasons and there seems to be at least one (1) person who agrees.

>>96800789
I wonder if picrel is what New Mu Blademasters look like under the robes
I don't think they're getting any from the Priestesses.

>>96800660
>The semi-expendable thing works for me. Having it limited to affixed bayonet models seems a little strangely worded but seems alright.
I mean, only Soldiers with Affixed Bayonets would be modified by the rule, and the "take your Dread at the end of the turn" would be a separate, blanket thing.
>>96800541
>Doggerland and Paris makes sense to me, one goes up and the other goes down
Yeah, I suppose. If it ends up helping Denmark, it further implies that both are the work of La Ombre, which is nice.
>Maybe just have it so Doggerland isn't fully formed until a while later
Slow rise out of the sea? I guess that works. Regardless there is going to have to be an element of it simply being overlooked for a while.
>>96800170
>5000 BC
It must have taken place 1 million years ago.
>Hokkaido stuff ended up (did the Mu keep the island or did Japan retake it? I'm warming up to the second option, but we still have to explain it)
I'm still in favor of forgetting the whole thing. However, pushing back the Mu invasion to after the Satsuma Rebellion, and having it be a fairly short/small affair that the Japanese handle well enough on their own, and having the Entrance have some devaluing issue, would have me in favor of it. It should be like the raid on New York City, if it was on New York State. Mu should never actually control the island, just some out of the way parts of it and the Entrance.
I'll ruminate on a proper Imperial Japan proposal. I've already shared plenty of my mind regarding them.

Thoughts on Tonkin? I think we should have Japanese involvement, so the Mu thing has to be resolved soon enough for that. I guess a less stable China and victory against Mu would have them more confident in getting involved, especially if we involve Son Doong.

>>96800963
>It must have taken place 1 million years ago.
Elaborate.
>Mu should never actually control the island, just some out of the way parts of it and the Entrance.
What if the Japanese just, like, block the entrance? Or completely collapse the cave system. Unlike most entrances it's not a safe hole if perhaps uncomfortable gate to free real estate, but a route for foreign invasion. While they'd get more interested in Agartha once they figure out the Kyushuu entrance and reconnect with the Satsumans, I can imagine their first reaction being "fuck this shit".

>>96800963
>It must have taken place 1 million years ago.
How about, and hear me out, 1 million years IN THE FUTURE

>>96800170
I still think pushing Malcolm back to Crimea instead of putting in some existing conspiracy that would later prop him up to start his rebellion kinda wrecks his personal history of being "Highland regiment commander who met Lemurians in India during the Sepoy rebellion"

>>96801033
How about, hear me out, it happened uknown years sideways. Like they were ripped out of a parallel loop (there are infinite loops going on at the same time but their are all on they all end and start the same singularity point). That can potentially explain anything. Why are they Greek? Well, they are the Greeks in their Loop. Why are they on the 5th Layer? They were supposed to fall there in their Loop.

>>96801065
>Like they were ripped out of a parallel loop (there are infinite loops going on at the same time but their are all on they all end and start the same singularity point
Doesn't this kinda ring with something about Napoleon looking at alternate timelines?

>>96801021
>Elaborate.
I refuse!
>>96801065
My personal theory is that the loops loop. Each complete loop adds a new Layer. All the lower Layers are 2nd layers from previous loops, like rings on a tree. All the Layers are recorded and destroyed in every Deluge, then reform one Layer lower than they were before. Each time this happens, the record gets more and more distorted, and the pressure from the Layers above causes things to compress... So, you can't really put a date on it, because it happened before time. It never actually happened, it's just an echo of an echo from a previous loop. That is to say, they are on the 5th because they fell to the 3rd.

The world is a living thing. The world is a dead thing. Time is the world. The world is time. Circles within circles. It all ends up down there. In the dark.

>>96799604
Thank you for the batrep!
>>96800233
>>96800233
>A solution to both issues might be to change the range on the Kropatschek Mechanism from a static 3, to Awareness of the model spending AP.
We could try that, yes, that's a nice little nudge.
>>96800233
>Offensive Unknown tokens don’t work
I am sad, but I agree. Two games in a row now I'd have just throw you money around. You've been incredibly lucky (or at least I feel so) in both the last games but still... We already discussed this, but
> Gonna make it more explicit that you can stack Unknown tokens (or if/when you can do it).
> Shells & Caged Anomalies are no longer going to have a chance of dropping an Artefacts.
> Probably going to up a bit the lethality on all anomalies again. At least have them do some splash damage on arrival.
>>96800005
Not anymore, although that was the early intent.
>>96800005
For the Crimean Veteran I remember the rule was suggested by someone else, I couldn't tell you really. I see it as them being extra nervous about mines, which Anomalies kinda are...? Best I got.
>>96800311
>On the PKZ, 2eanon pointed out that it goes with the Field Telephone; I’d like to point out what a static interaction that is.
True, and its the best one I could come up with. I guess we can cut the PKZ then.
>>96800488
>They were a premier weapon of the age so I don't see too much of an issue with them being good.
I did see an argument on that on a /k/ thread not long ago, one anon quoted a book where a french medics reported bayonets accounted for only a fraction of the wounds he treated (2-6%). The obvious reply being that that focuses on wounded and not casualties... Anyways, not that it matters that much. Bayonets are good stat wise but have a mediocre Lethality output. Basic Colonial melee weapons are meant to suck somewhat, so the Saber is no better, you choose between Reach or Flurry 2.
>>96802106
Now this is the stuff. Proper Immunologist posting.

>>96802106
It is not a circle.
It is a hypersphere.
4 dimensional time.

>>96802640
Circles... Within circles...

>>96802529
>I guess we can cut the PKZ then.
In retrospect it's largely just an observation balloon that can crappily melee, and we already have the Aeronaut professor for the balloon part. I gave it a go with the rules but it won't be especially missed.

Although, on the topic of flying units I have been toying with the rules for the Atlantean wing artifact in my mind, if we're still looking into those.

>>96800789
>the sinking of Atlantis
I have no stake in this one anyway, I found this date repeated all the time in the sources, so I just added it.

>Eternal War around the 16th century
Sure, I'll change that one.

>irrelevant historical dates
More for context to follow the evolution of the different nations, plus a bit of worldbuilding. Plus, the opium wars is going to be relevant for the taiping stuff.

>January Uprisisng
Added.

>The order of events regarding the Tsar's eye
Mostly following the order of what's written in the wiki article. As per tsarist colonies, I just added the dates on the wiki timeline, as there is little info on when those came about.

>>96801049
>Malcolmite stuff
What would be the proper order of events for this, then?

In regards to Malcolm, I'd like to bring up a lore tidbit from the second big loredump I ever wrote, where I suggested that his defeat at the arsenal was a result of the first successful prediction of an Analytical engine.
I think it connects things together nicely.

>>96802738
>What would be the proper order of events for this, then?
1858 is the definitive end of the Malcolmites, their crushing defeat at Greenrock. I remember someone saying that we should push Malcolm's origins back to Crimea, but that conflicts a bit with the idea of him fighting in India for the British. It does scrunch down his time in the sun a bit, but I think that's fine. The Malcolmite rising can be a short flare up.
There was some discussion that there should have been an existing Scottish movement that Malcolm became the leader of, I think we can safely put its origins some time around Crimea.
>>96802835
I do like that idea, as well as the implication that the Lemurians had a hand in its creation.

>>96802048
Where the fuck are you whenever I ask how the Layers work? Thanks, I like it and it does clear things up.

>>96802733
>and we already have the Aeronaut professor for the balloon part. I gave it a go with the rules but it won't be especially missed.
That's true.
> picrel
As we move forward toward Doggerland (intro doc later on today) I will be rushing some much needed updates to the participant books, as well as the main Rulebook.
Here is what I'd like to modify for France. The Envoy Hero traits may be undercosted, a bit, but its not on a survivable model anyways, and it has an LP cost.
Upon rereading it the Belt-fed mod could use an additional -1 Acc to Long or something to balance it out.
Added Terror to Enfant Perdu because otherwise sacrificing models for it won't ever be something you'll want to do. Still harsh, but at least its something. Maybe add Critical Instability or something so that shooting it may blow it up?
The Cannoniere is just a floating artillery piece, the missing one for the French book. Garnier will very much appreciate its inclusion. Its pretty bland as far as big units goes but I figure it'll become a modded monstrosity every game it's fielded.
If there is no huge outcry over this I'll be uploading the book tomorrow.

>>96800170
Alright, second draft.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7FhGMrkQ-IwZXKRq53etUNvgKos99XQajecMApCazc/edit?usp=sharing
Reasons:
Most agreed there should be more space between the Entombment and the Incident.
Rewriting the Eastern War I realized the old Russo-Turkish war and peace versions didn't fit anymore. I made something halfway between OTL Berlin and San-Stefano.
Decided to cripple Bulgaria more after I learned about the obscure project to crown Carol I king of Bulgaria in addition to Romania (I was extremely suspicious when everybdy kept referencing the same author that I couldn't read, but I took time to look up another source and it seems legit). If the Husks retain a major city in the Balkans it allows to make them look like more of a big deal.
Hopefully I made the Constantinople landing palatable enough, it's mostly there to have the Tsardom get BTFO and let Skobelev get his moment. Gotta hype up the Leader units.
I left the fate of Abdul Hamid vague in case anyone has any ideas.
Included the Germans in the crisis proper. As for their timeline, I suggest moving the outbreak of the Kulturkrieg a bit after the Treaty of Venice. So maybe Prussia sends the ultimatums in the same year, 1868. Catholics are notably touchy and suspicious due to the Schism, then by 1869 there are rumors that the Prussians will force them to renounce ties with Rome just like in Austria, at which point an open revolt starts. Wouldn't Prussia still effortlessly destroy Baden and Bavaria and be able to do the unification in 1870?
I moved the Stromboli treaty with 1877 along with the Triple Alliance. Putting it during the Crisis felt a bit awkward.
I do wonder what Carol I thought of the Kulturkrieg. He was from the Catholic branch of the family, was he not? Or was it a kind of "Hohenzollern first, Catholic second" deal?

>>96803141
Looks good. I've been out of the loop for a while, did anything change about Evasion and Cover? I remember us testing different rule versions and I assume you've settled on something after more playtests with others.

>>96803141
>mitrailleuse
I've been talking about a Hired Gun (Gatling) mercenary for a while but never did it because i wasn't sure how to make it worse than the mitrailleuse while still being good. Now, it would be easy, just give it Set Up, 5 Discipline, and have it be otherwise the same (or 20 instead of 25, if you go that way).
It's last mercenary i would think to add.

>>96803141
>Can I have a boat, please?
Okay, but only since you asked nicely.

Smoke on the cocktails is interesting. I bet there's a way to have some fun with that. Are smoke bombs anywhere in the game? I think Outlanders might have them.

>>96805465
>Are smoke bombs anywhere in the game?
That's effectively what Chem Grenades are at present.

>>96805465
Atlanteans have them.

Is Ammo Feed the number of shots you can take before reloading, or the number of Reloads you get to skip? Does Reloading reset Ammo Feed?

I've seen this bit in the googledoc:

>A [french] expedition is trying to find a road to the Puy of Sancy from below, to no avail so far

When was this discussed? I don't remember it being around in the threads.

>>96808516
It's ancient lore. We didn't really do anything with Bruniquel or this and have been treating Paris as the de facto only French entrance. I suppose they could be relegated to minor entrances - you can physically go to Agartha through there, but you can't use it for large scale logistics.

>>96808425
The first one, reloading resets.

I think I have a possible 100 silver list to try the game. If I haven't messed up the list-making.

>>96809268
The Sergeant is a specialist, not an Elite or a Leader. I think you might have him confused with the Lieutenant, who is a Hero but not an Elite.

The Heiress is a Character which is functionally identical to a specialist.

Going off the 0.05 book, here's something close to what you have that should be good. Unless it's not, in which case I'm apologize in advance:

>Lieutenant: Born to Lead, Witty, Swole, Agile (12 Silver, no equipment?)
>Heiress Explorer (26 Silver, +20 to chest)
>Torero: (16 Silver)
>4 BAPs with equipment (15 each)
6 Silver spare, I recommend equipping Lieutenant and giving him one of the special traits if you want.

>>96808838
I like the revolvers should reload one by one, or else have their reload increased. They are cheap and Ammo Feed 5 with a Grievous is really good, even with that short range.

Eider Officer: 22
Leader, Soldier
AP: 2 LP: 3
Movement: 3, Accuracy: 5, Strength: 5, Discipline: 6, Evasion: 5, Labor: 4, Awareness: 5
Health: L1 B2 H1
Armor: 000
Hatred [British, Germans]
Water and Ice Affinity

Equipment: Any Danish Weapon, Horse, Rations, Alcohol, First Aid Kits, Material, Torches, Lanterns

Assault Commander: Friendly Soldiers may resolve resolve a Ranged Attack as part of any Move or Charge Action they take, however they suffer -1 Accuracy when doing so.

Teleological Suspension of The Ethical: [2 AP] For the rest of the Turn, Friendly Faction Soldiers may Charge models they are already Engaged with, but must first suffer a Melee Attack from the Charged model.

“Lad alle mennesker vide, hvor tom og værdiløs er kongernes magt” [3LP]: Until the end of the turn, when any model dies as the result of a Charge, reduce it’s Leader’s LP by 1; if that Leader has no LP reduce instead it’s AP by 1; if that Leader has no AP it’s
owner takes 1 Dread.

Hyper Industrialist (10 Silver during Recruitment): This model gains the Diplomat, Engineer and Mechanical keywords, and may equip Hyperborean Weapons. You may recruit Clockwork Scouts in your Expedition as Elite. Additionally, during Recruitment you may choose between being allowed to recruit 1d3 Hyperborean Relics and equip them on Leaders, Specialist, Characters or Soldier models, OR recruit 1 Hyperborean NPC model as a Friendly model.

>>96811220
>comments
Price increased by 5 and one Health lost because the Faction is shaping up to be cheaper than I'd like. I don't want it to be a swarm faction, and now that's how it seems. A lot of their strength is going to come from this model, and his from Assault Commander, so it makes sense for him to be a more expensive one. Superfluous stats were lowered; his roll is now clear. My hope is that the Teleological Suspension of The Ethical will allow "Lad alle mennesker vide..." actually see use. I bet it will be a fun rule; nice and tense, but not pure random. I don't know what a River is, so changed his Affinity to just be Water and Ice, nice and simple.
As you can see, I've come quite along with the mechanics of Denmark. I'm ready to post most everything, though the Hero is unfinished, and I'm missing a big boat. My hope is that 2eanon and I could test them Thursday, so they can be revised, and properly finished by the time Doggerland gets going. Lore 'Soon', first in the form of Unit Descriptions, because those are easier for me. It won't be another Atlan situation because Denmark is real; there will be a wright up at some point.
I say I'm ready to post, but still need to find images...

Danish Infantry: 8
Soldier
AP: 2
Movement: 3, Accuracy: 6, Strength: 5, Discipline: 5, Evasion: 5, Labor: 4, Awareness: 4
Health: 2
Armor: 000
Fear [Deep]
Water Affinity
Remmington Training

Equipment: Colt SSA, Remmington, Krag-Jorgensen, Bayonet, Sabre, Rations, Alcohol, First Aid Kits, Material, Torches, Lanterns, Climbing Gear

>comments
I said about lowering him to 7, but I prefer this. They aren't meant to be a swarm faction. Krag has a unique profile I'll post with the Elite.

Jutland Dragoon: 14
Soldier, Elite
AP: 2
Movement: 3, Accuracy: 6, Strength: 5, Discipline: 7, Evasion: 5, Labor: 3, Awareness: 5
Health: 2
Armor: 000
Fear [Deep]
Hatred [German]
[Quick Shot] Krag-Jorgensen

Equipment: Horse, Colt SSA, Remington, Krag-Jorgensen, Bayonet, Sabre, Rations, Alcohol, First Aid Kits, Material, Torches, Lanterns, Gas Mask

Dragoon of Faith: While this model is equipped with a Gas Mask, it suffers -1 Labor and Awareness, but may Charge through Smoke and Chem tokens, and ignores cover granted by them.

>comments
Most of his value comes from Quick Shot and Discipline. I'm not really sure how to explain the gas mask thing, its mostly mechanical and just feels right to me. I don't see it adding anything to the cost, because it has its own cost. I couldn't think a Dragoonish special rule in time, so I settled for the horse being optional. They get much better with the horse, but it's a horse. They are meant to work well with the Eider Officer.
"What is this, a dragoon for ants?" I can only give what I am given.

Krag-Jorgensen: Cost 3
Range 14, Long -2, Pen 2, Lethality G, Reload 1
Smoke, Ammo Feed 2
Special: This model’s Ammo Feed is not reset when it Reloads, instead refilling by 1 for each Reload.

>comments
It's the Kalthoff but good. Denmark adopted it in '89, otl. That 3 cost seems low, I know, but if you think about it, it tracks. Smoke makes one benefit of Ammo Feed, being able to attack twice in one turn, lesser, because while you still can attack twice, you will be doing so at -1 Accuracy or you will be in melee and your target will have Cover. If we bumped it to 4, I'd want to bump Ammo Feed to 3, and maybe that's the thing to do. I want to try it how it is, but invite criticism of it.

>>96811572
>"What is this, a dragoon for ants?"
Really not that bad, looking at it now.

>>96811220
For hyper industrialist, I would like to point out that I wrote it specifically for the Golden Syndicate. The clockwork scouts aren't a hyperborean thing, they're a Golden Syndicate thing. I'm not sure how involved with Hyperborea the NSRs are but there's probably a more faction-specific rule we can get involving that angle.

Volunteer Revanchist: 7
Auxiliary
AP: 2
Movement: 3, Accuracy: 5, Strength: 5, Discipline: 4, Evasion: 5, Labor: 5, Awareness: 4
Health: 2
Armor: 000
Fear [Deep]
Skirmisher

Equipment: Any Danish Weapon, Rations, Alcohol, First Aid Kits, Material, Torches, Lanterns, Climbing Gear

>comments
The difference between Any Danish Weapon and the stuff the Soldiers have was going to be access to Jarmann (Beaumont) and Lefaucheux, but now I'm not sure if they should be in the book. This is your Serbian replacement, basically.
>>96811282
T/N: Remington means Gras

>>96811590
>probably a more faction-specific rule we can get involving that angle.
Yeah. I'll add it to the stew. It'll be easier to figure out when the Hyperborean stuff is farther along. I'm not sure how they relate to the GS anymore, but they certainly are the most familiar with Whalurs. I guess consider it a place holder. If you have an idea for it, post it.

Scandinavian Sailor: 6
Worker
AP: 2
Movement: 3, Accuracy: 4, Strength: 5, Discipline: 4, Evasion: 5, Labor: 6, Awareness: 4
Health: 2
Armor: 000
Fear [Deep]
Water Affinity

Equipment: Remington, Colt, Harpoon, Sabre, Bayonet,

Tidal Bore: When this model Engages an enemy model, a Friendly Soldier already Engaged with that model may immediately Disengage at no AP cost.

>comments
Everyone should have Daggers as an option. I always forget that. I think the Colt is worse than the Lefaucheux, in a way, because the extra ranged accuracy isn't worth the Silver the better part of the time. It's better on a Leader or something, can be, but on a guy like this it's just a tax. Tidal Bore is a reference to two things: How King Cnut might have set up that stunt of his, and the strategy the army wanted to use in the war (kite with the Navy).
I don't really have a good image for this one.

>>96811748
>It'll be easier to figure out when the Hyperborean stuff is farther along.
I've got an idea. I'm writing up Halifax stuff right now so I can't make an epic in-universe proposal with thousands of words and dozens of misspellings but I can do this:
>The firmament is a torus. Or there are waterfalls of pain at both of the poles. Either way, Franklin's expedition went North and ended up in the 9th layer, and the thing which is not and never was Cromwell lives in Antarctica pseudo-thinking about how much it hates the concept of the Irish
>The Americans have first hand experience with Hyperborea and know not to touch. The British are naturally distrustful of any strangeness and agree to help keep Greenland under control. It also placates the US about the Canada-Pact thing
>The Tsardom is too busy having national indigestion to look at what's going on above Siberia
>That mainly leaves Scandinavia as the region closest geographically to Hyperborea
>OTL the main explorers of the North pole in the 1870s were the British, Americans, various Scandis, and some random Germans.
>While Denmark is the state with the most revanchism, Sweden is actually the most likely judging by OTL to make Hyperborean contact.
>If they avoid getting lost in the first layer like Franklin's expedition they could theoretically enter and return from the psychic sea with only severe mental and physical derangement
>Denmark can see this as their second chance, instead of an entrance leading down they've found one leading up
>Then they start what is effectively a space program into hell, sending men in diving suits up the psychic waterfall and trying to figure out how to use what they find
It makes them the scientific counterpart to the other Hyperborean factions. Where GS is weaponizing secondhand relics, NSR are trying to invent things from first principles. It's probably more humane but also more risky since at any moment they might awaken something or widen the breach.

>>96811916
I'll say that having a faction with Hyperborean ties not be automatically and irredeemably evil would be a new one. Warfs manage to be sociopathic LN leaning LE rather than psychopathic CE largely due to how little they're actually involved with Hyperborea. Everyone else tastes a little of the rainbow and goes off the deepend.

With Denmark only the himmelsejlers (sky-sailors) and some of the researchers would be severely tainted. Everyone else could be reacting with equal parts horror and fascination, since they probably haven't met any of the more sentient inhabitants of the firmament on a personal level yet.

Lastly, I'm seeing these as very brief dips. Think less than a day. Under no circumstances should colonizing the firmament be even physically possible.

Until they complete the second space-gun anyways. Where did you think all those men from the Baltimore Gun Club disappeared to after their own expedition vanished? Denmark is paying them quite well from what I hear.

Dammit the ideas keep coming. This also ties to Vikings and the rainbow bridge, which is something we've brought up before but in this case it's something Denmark could draw from in-universe for names and justifications instead of just being an excuse for Husked Vikings.
>This is the same bridge spoken of in the Sagas! Why are you afraid?!
>Please commander, I can hear it speaking to me. I don't want to go
>Nonsense! Up you go!
And then diving suit is shoved into the pain waterfall and sucked up while dozens of men hold onto the ropes and try not to listen.

>>96811916
>Then they start what is effectively a space program into hell, sending men in diving suits up the psychic waterfall and trying to figure out how to use what they find
This speaks to me.

You've kinda killed my Tsardom plans on several levels and at this point I don't see any way to salvage it, honestly.

>>96803938
Having reviewed the material, I can say with certainty that the German involvement is represented appropriately.
On Carol I, his origins lie in the Swabian (Catholic) branch of the Hohenzollerns. Prior to taking the Romanian crown, Carol I spent most of his life in Germany, and would be able to see the impact of the Kulturkrieg in this altered timeline. In OTL, it would not be until the middle of the great war and the accession of his son, Ferdinand I, to the Romanian throne, that Romania would take an anti-German posture. Perhaps Carol's lingering connections are frayed by the Prussian's actions in southern Germany, and by the time of the Great War, the connection is so damaged that his successor takes the opposite side.
We can push the Prussian ultimatums to the southern German states earlier, if we need to conclude the crisis on time.

>>96811916
>It'll be easier to figure out when the Hyperborean stuff is farther along.
By that I mean the faction and npc books. The only sentence about lore in that post was the one with proper nouns.
I'm saying now, the lore explanation is that they get the Hyperborean stuff from Whalurs. Either the Whalurs find Hyperborean stuff in the whale guts, like ambergris, and sell it, or else something to do with whale products. I want Denmark to be still 'small', both in model count, and in a more vague way. if Hyperborea has too much gravity for that, I'd much rather cut it than succumb to it. Meaning, if you all don't find that to be a satisfactory explanation, I'd remove the thing that requires explanation.
To my mind, what you're suggesting is really a whole nother faction.
>>96812324
It's just talk.

Unnamed Jutland Pastor: 5
Specialist, Academic
AP: 2
Movement: 3, Accuracy: 3, Strength: 3, Discipline: 7, Evasion: 5, Labor: 4, Awareness: 5
Health: L2 B2 H1
Armor: 000

Equipment: Colt, Lefaucheux, Sabre, Dagger, Rations, Alcohol, First Aid Kit, Materials, Torch, Lantern

Friday Communion: On the Fifth Turn, whenever a model within Awareness of this one (including this one and enemy models) consumes Alcohol, lower your Dread by 1.

Growing Insight

Bergen Correspondent: 7
Specialist, Diplomat
AP: 2
Movement: 3, Accuracy: 3, Strength: 4, Discipline: 4, Evasion: 4, Labor: 4, Awareness: 4
Health: L2 B2 H1
Armor: 000

Equipment: Colt, Lefaucheux, Sabre, Dagger, Rations, Alcohol, First Aid Kit, Materials, Torch, Lantern

Favorable Letter: [1AP] Whenever a Friendly Faction model within Awareness earns Silver, this model may immediately take this Action to gain a Favorable Letter equipment worth 5 Silver.

Armed Neutrality: When a Friendly Faction model within Awareness is Wounded by an enemy model, if the Wounded model has not resolved an Attack, this model may immediately give 1 of it’s AP to any number of Friendly models within Awareness that have also not resolved an Attack. (meaning, you can give AP to 2 models, but not the same model twice).

>comments
Came up with these first, but didn’t type them up until last night (why I stopped the dump). The Hero isn’t done, but I’ll post what I have. Comments would take too long, I’ll do them later.

>Faction Traits
Danish: This model gains Soldier. If it would gain Soldier a second time, it gains 1 AP. Steam Boats are taken as Faction Elite, and each Crew member may be replaced with either Danish Infantry for 2 additional Silver each, or Scandinavian Sailors for 1 additional Silver each. Friendly Faction Models on the decks of Boats gain Nimble.

Swedish: This model gains Engineer. Faction Soldiers may equip Dynamite

Norwegian: This model gains Diplomat. While this model is alive, friendly Auxiliaries that have gained AP from Armed Neutrality count as Soldiers until the end of the turn, and Faction Soldiers may be given AP for Armed Neutrality even after they have Attacked.

Faroese: While this model is alive, Scandinavian Sailors gain Auxiliary, Whalur 1, Harpoon Training, and +1 Movement, as does this model.

Icelandic: This model gains Academic, Hatred [British], Growing Insight, and may equip Survey Tools. If it would gain Academic a second time, it gains instead Hide.

>The Hero Himself
Krigsveteran:
Hero
AP: 2
Movement: 3, Accuracy: 5, Strength: 4, Discipline: 5, Evasion: 4, Labor: 4, Awareness: 4
Health: 2
Armor: 000
Fear [Deep]
Hatred [German, British]

Equipment: Any Faction

This model gains only 2 Leadership from Born to Lead, and may not Rally unless it has either Born to Lead or a Faction Trait.

>His Traits
Attack upon Christendom: This model and Unnamed Jutland Pastor gain Armed Neutrality.

Scandinavian Cooperation: Volunteer Revanchists may take Faction Traits. Each Trait may only be taken this way once. (1 Silver)

Fear and Trembling: [1AP] Take 1 Dread, regain 2 LP. (1 Silver)

Working Title: [1 LP] Test Awarness, if successful, set Wind Direction to North. If Wind Direction already is North, immediately move all Smoke, Chem, and Floaters 1d3 with the Wind. (1 Silver)

Kalthoff Tuning: Krag-Jorgensens Taken by your Leader, Heroes, Characters, and Elites may be given Belt Fed. (12 Silver)

>>96809680
Sorry, I corrected it. Something like this?

>>96803938
I'm starting to read it. I'll give you my opinion in a moment.

>>96811220
I like the profiles. You've clearly done the research.
However, I would be remiss if I didn't bring up the striking coincidence that the proposal essentially creates a faction, almost purpose-built for the upcoming Doggerland campaign, wherein a good number of the models have specific faction [Hatred] keyword towards two of the other 4/5 factions that will be participating. I know that +1 Strength on Charge/Melee attacks isn't game-breaking, but it's an interesting coincidence.
Assuming no foul intentions, they look alright. Although I would argue about the Krags. I recall that, when the German proposal was vetted by the thread, in the 1st version where most of the followers had access to M71 'Kropatschek' Mausers, that there was a strong back and forth as to how that should be implemented. In the end, it as decided that the way their Neukraft rule works as cumbersome during a game where most of the AP is spent on infantry shooting at one another. We then settled on an idea more in line with the 'ahead of time by a small margin through [REDACTED]', and provided them with, effectively, a Gewehr 88 at a fairly high cost.
I will admit that I don't see the full picture with what Hyperborean interaction that this faction will suffer, so perhaps something can be provided, and we've yet to see a lore write-up, so I will withhold judgement. But giving the Danes a just as/ or more modern rifle than the Germans at half the cost seems sketchy.

>>96813658
Bayonet + Lee Metfield is 6 Silver in the latest version of the book, this seems to be over 100 Silver in total.
The Lieutenant is 10 without weapons.
Heiress is 25 and brings her own loadout plus the 20 for equipment.
Torero is 15.
This leaves you 50 points.
4 BAPs leaves you 30 Silver, so you could outfit the Lieutenant and the 4 BAPs with the Lee Metfield + Bayonet combo, but you would have to cut out the Sergeant Major and the Queen's Colors.
Still looks really good for 100 Silver, although I keep thinking I might have been too harsh on the Lee Metfield and the Gerwher last time I went over them.
>>96811220
>>96811282
>>96811572
>>96811731
>>96811828
Alright, on first glance this feels very optimized toward aggression. I don't want to get bugged down on rule discussions at the moment but Assault Commander being mostly on a Merc profile was a way to control it. Colonials are not meant to be good in melee and Assault Commander compensates for that. Combining Assault Commander and so much Smoke availability is a very straightforward way to fuck your opponent in a way that doesn't feel good, and these models are priced mostly as baseline discount infantry (7~8). Compare this with the utility you get from a Garde Nationale (oh you get the option to trade Soldier for Worker, that's cute) or a Kentuckian Rebel.
This shit isn't supposed to be a ww1 game damnit. Oh well.
>>96813721
>specific faction [Hatred] keyword towards two of the other 4/5 factions that will be participating.
There's also that. On its own it wouldn't be worth worrying about, but this will be another faction that will want to Charge in, will get to shoot as it goes forward, provide its own Cover/LoS blocks as it does, then Charges in, then gets to Disengage for free and cycles in. Hatred (brits/Germany) is a small bonus to what is already really good wound charge potential (the shot + the charge itself).

>>96814094
I hadn't considered the overall strategy, but looking back on the stats this conclusions seems warranted. For an extremely minor power, the level of army professionalism that would be required for these rules to make sense is entirely incompatible with realistic projections.
Consider the following;
The separation of Schleswig and Holstein from Denmark cut the population of Denmark from 2.6 million in 1864 to 1.6 million. This was a loss of nearly 35% of it's contiguous territory. Motivation enough for a movement of revanchism, sure. They take power, as the proponent describes, but then what happens? How are you facilitating the large-scale reforms that would be required to attribute the level of proficiency in the Danish military that is presented in their rules? You can't Hyperborea your way out of being fifteen years behind in doctrine.
Short of changing the outcome of the 2nd Schleswig war, and outside of invoking some phenomenon from the Inner Earth that the Danes would lack significant access to, how is this at all a realistic representation of the military at the time? You can purchase machine tools and foreign experts from other powers, sure. Who would sell them to you? The Germans certainly won't, when the government harbors the described ideology. The British certainly won't. The Russians, what little they would be willing to export, ought not to play ball, as assisting in Scandinavian revanchism could backfire, and such a entity might try and take Finland back, or at least harbor hopes of doing so. I suppose you have France, potentially. I know too little of French-Danish relations to take a position. I recall the Danes playing ball with L'Ombre when he was a flesh and blood man, but that might be, in this setting's context, more of a problem than a solution.

>>96814307
But let's entertain the hypothetical that the Danes succeed in uniting Scandinavia and seize the Doggerland entrance, as may yet be demonstrated by the events of the played campaign.
They seize a newly cleared, fairly proximate entrance. Excellent. Germany, the Tsardom, Britain and France then examine the situation and realize that a largely agricultural, lacking in population density, insignificant power has seized a point of critical access to the Inner Earth.
That could not stand. Scandinavian shipping would be swept from the seas, and if there wasn't some diplomatic solution to the problem, a land invasion of Denmark and Sweden by Germany and the Tsardom, respectively, would be seriously considered, if not enacted.
I like the profiles. I like the passion.
I also think this is bloat. Not only bloat, but bad bloat that could not be reasonably justified in-setting.
I invite the proponent to prove otherwise.

>>96814094
So it would be:
>Liuteneant
10 silver + 5 silver for traits

>Heiress
25 silver

>Torero
15 silver

>Private
10 silver + 6 silver (lee metfield + bayonet)

Basic count
10 + 5 + 25 + 15 + (10x4) = 95 silver

Equipment
(6 (lee metfield + bayonet) x 4) + 1 (torero's sword) = 25

95+25=120

Would this be correct?

>>96803938
Ok, I’ve read the new version of the writeup. A couple pointers:

>Tsardom near win
I’m warming up to this version. Maybe describing it in the timeline as “Crimean war ends in Allied humiliation, despite their victory. Treaty of Berlin. Russian secures the independence of the Danubian Principalities and Serbia, as well as assurances on Bulgarian autonomy”. I imagine they’d have to sell it to the population as “the big powers had to join together to stop us and only did so barely. The next time it will be the final victory”.

>The collapse of the Quing dynasty
Now that I think about it, how strong would be the Taiping in the Central Asian borders? I imagine they’d have no friends in Mongolia, and areas bordering the Neo-Mughal and the Tsardom. Maybe in Manchuria they’d have a stronger grip? Considering no western power would want the Taiping around due to their anti-western attitudes, would there be a big push to kick them out after their takeover? We really need to develop China further.

>Greece is initially warned not to interfere by the great powers
Why? It’s not like the greeks entering the war would tip the balance of power in the anti-ottoman’s favor, the war was very lopsided as it is, and Greece would be closer to french-british interests, rather than the Tsardom’s.

>Egyptian Hejaz campaign happening in 1872
I still think this should happen closer to the Balkans’ campaign. The crisis should look like things are going off the rails for the Ottoman Empire quickly. Unless we specify that the anti-ottoman coalition is getting their victories in late 1871 and the Egyptian attack is very early 1872, they should be in the same year.

>>96803938
>Persian campaign in Mesopotamia
Same as above.

>The only remaining lands on the European mainland under direct Ottoman rule are coastal Rumelia, Macedonia and Kosovo.
It’s not a big deal anyway, but I was envisioning as the Ottomans losing all their territorial claims in Europe but Rumelia (as in, just the small fraction of Rumelia near Istambul). That way, it sells the impending death of the empire much clearly, and makes Murad’s gambit much more desperate and rushed.

>The treaty lets Italy dissatisfied
Would Italy have been invited to Paris? They are still pretty much pariahs, and they haven’t intervened in the crisis thus far.

>The crisis still hasn’t fully started by early 1873, the Necropolis is in 1874
Still think this is too slow. The feeling of this should be that is a crumbling house, where things just go from bad to worse much faster than anyone can do anything about (per example, the Congress of Paris would still be happening when Egypt launched its campaign on its own, throwing away whatever conclusions they had arrived at thus far, that kind of crumbling house of cards).

My view of the crisis’ timeline would be: 1871-the ottomans lose the war against the coalition, the entombment happens. 1872, the Necropolis event, the entire year is the anti-ottoman alliance being trounced by the husks. 1873 – the tide turns, victories against the husks slowly but surely, Miracle of the Desert and so forth. 1874 and forward – the war quickly stalls and the crisis slowly dwindles in intensity.

>>96803938

>General Skobelev’s anabasis
I’m still not convinced of the Tsardom occupying Istambul before the show starts, but I really like the idea of the general having to fight his way out of the ruins of the fallen city and across Mnemosynia, and all the adventures there, a lot of potential for storytelling. I was thinking of something like a “filibuster”, as in an unauthorized move on his own to take over the city. Maybe he is there in some sort of diplomatic mission, then the Entombment happens, the city goes into disarray, and he thinks that is his chance to take the city for the Tsardom, so he gets the few tsardom army men, plus whatever mercenaries and orthodox volunteers he could find, and he becomes one of the factions vying for power in Istambul. Then the city falls and he and his small army of men have to fight their way out of the city as fast as they can.

>The Great Blockade of the Husk holdings in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Black Sea.
Would this be a fleet-based effort? What would this entail exactly? The husks don’t have many ships, if any by the time of the end of the war. Also, while we’re at it, what would happen with the renegade ottoman admirals and captains who want nothing to do with the husk sultan?

>>96803938

>The Italo-Ethiopian war happening after the whole crisis
I still think this would be a mistake, at least in narrative terms. By the time the crisis starts, the vulcanists have had victory after victory, even against big powers like France and Austria. I can see them being overconfident and launching their Ethiopian campaign in the middle of the crisis, while also taking on Albania and Libya. Their logic would be that the Ethiopian campaign is going to be quick and easy, and that the other powers are not going to care for a land grab in Africa while the crisis is going on, and that their big worry is going to be keeping Albania from the husks and Libya from the french. And yet, it is Ethiopia the thing that goes wrong, being a quagmire that proves to be the first major loss for the vulcanists.

>New borders for Egypt
I don’t think Egypt would be able to keep the Hejaz after they lose it to the husks. The Sinai peninsula? Sure, but not the whole Hejaz. Too many husks.

Also, while we are talking about it. Kaiseranon and I were thinking that maybe the difference between the risen husks in their sentience and skills would be their sense of purpose. Since Akamnandag in the book was a sentient husk with a great purpose of recording history, maybe that purpose was the key to keep him sentient all this time. We could apply this logic for the husks in the crisis: regular peasants and common civilians are risen as just regular Holywood zombies, whereas old soldiers and personnel with a deep loyalty to the Sultan and/or the Ottoman Empire are risen with most (or all) their faculties. That way we can get both types of undead going around.

>>96815144
>Since Akamnandag in the book was a sentient husk
Is this really the case? I figured he was closer to whatever Napoleon's become.

>>96815281
An excerpt from the book:

'You have been mired in this place since?'

'It was of my own choosing. When the living death took me, departure from this place became impossible.'

'The living death?'

'Eternal Life. The Lotus Grasp. Ewigkeit. Mercurial majesty. Immortality. Husking. It goes by many names.

Also, before I do another sweep to the timeline. The main dates to revise (aside from those in the Second Oriental Crisis and whatever we decide with Hokkaido) are the malcolmites (>>96802862 so 1857 would be the start, and 1858 would be the end of the rebellion), and maybe the dates regarding the tsardom's colonies?

>>96800789
Are you going to do some lore for the origins of the tsardom's colonies? I was under the impression that the Tsar's eye was the thing that pushed the tsar to move into the deep.

>>96815491
Also, like I pointed out before, we need to clarify a bit about the USA's Chicxulub's mines.

>>96815325
I'll admit I was mostly thinking about the L.N.B's Garlic bread in that scene.
I was hungry and it was described well.

>>96803141
Would you be up for buffing the discipline of the Old Guard to 7 and their post-merde buffs to +2 each? The gimmick with the unit is that it's a middling and very overcosted worker that can turn into an above-average stats but below-average equipment soldier once your dread is at dangerous levels. But right now the window between them becoming useful and shaken is a little too small I think, and the stat buffs aren't really worth the price.

>>96816581
Meant +3 for the accuracy buff, apologies.

>>96813721
>the striking coincidence that the proposal essentially creates a faction, almost purpose-built for the upcoming Doggerland campaign
No coincidence, that is my expressed entent.
>wherein a good number of the models have specific faction [Hatred] keyword towards two of the other 4/5 factions that will be participating
The only follower that gets Hatred is the Dragoon (an Elite). One (1) Volunteer Revanchist can get it for British through Scandinavian Cooperation, and the only other models are the Eider Officer (a Leader), and the Kirgsvet (a Hero). I'd be fine with the Hero losing it, and giving it as a low cost trait option. Actually I want to, because otherwise Icelandic Kirgsvets don't have to chose and that bothers me.

>>96817207
>guns
I don't really remember that discussion, but I believe it was about the mechanics of the gun rather than a lore thing. Mechanics wise, the Krag might should be brought to 4 as is. Lore wise, a slightly expedited development, production, and adoption given the radically different posture seems excusable to me. I don't see it as having anything to do with Hyperborea, it's just a admitted small stretch on my part to include a cool gun. You could change the name to Jarmann if it’s really such a problem. Also, their 'default gun' is the Remington 67 (Gras). If the issue is disconnect between mechanics and lore, you can take Belt Fed and that should bridge the gap well enough. Kalthoff Tuning is costed at 12, meaning if you take 3 Krags (one for each Dragoon at 150 Silver), you end up paying an additional 4 per gun, bringing them above the cost of the Geweher, and that isn't including the cost of the Hero. Although the Dragoons have Quick Shot with the weapon, that also makes Belt Fed's penalty twice as likely to trigger. You also have to consider that the Smoke blocks also your line of sight, and gives cover to your enemy, and because it will always be placed closer to you when you have less AP, it arguably does a better job of blocking your own line of sight. At least it means you can't use that one (1) extra shot you get on the same activation without having an extra AP (just like guns with no Ammo Feed), or suffer -1 Accuracy and potentially give up a good position or put yourself into a dangerous one to do an Assault Charge. The Dragoon the third option of suffering -1 Awareness and Labor to be able to Charge through the Smoke, but he can only Charge, pays the cost of a Ration for the privilege, and it makes the malus of Belt Fed more likely to occur.

>>96817221
If the Krag is really, really, a problem, it could be a Special weapon for the Dragoons, to show only limited adoption has taken place, even by the time of Doggerland. That would also give an easy replacement rule for Hyperinsutrialist, if it comes to it, where it would allow you Krags as a regular weapon, or an extra Elite, and allow recruitment of some Deep or Mechanical models you couldn’t normally take. “Hypo Industrialist”.
>>96814094
>I might have been too harsh on the Lee Metfield and the Gerwher last time I went over them.
I think both could cost a Silver less than they do and be okay.
>Combining Assault Commander and so much Smoke availability
Only the two natural Soldiers may take the Krag, and it's the more expensive option. As I pointed out above, the Smoke is itself a control on Assault Commander. Regardless, I'm very much open to increasing the costs of the Eider Officer, because I don't want him to feel necessary. I’m also alright increasing the cost of the Krag. If the problem is Assault Commander that's what should be addressed, not all the things around it.

>>96817234
>these models are priced mostly as baseline discount infantry (7~8). Compare this with the utility you get from a Garde Nationale (oh you get the option to trade Soldier for Worker, that's cute) or a Kentuckian Rebel.
The 7 cost follower the same stat line as the Moblot, only with Fear [Deep] and Skirmisher instead of being able to change keyword and gain +1 Movement. The 8 cost follower has stats comparable to the BAP but with Water Affinity instead of Bayonet Training and no Line Fire.
>gets to Disengage for free and cycles in
It's a one-in-one-out thing, so you will still have a model Engaged, but you get to substitute one for the other. If that rule is too much of a pain, I'm fine cutting it. Maybe lowering the Sailors' Acc to 3 and Evasion to 4 would be enough?

If Hatred is actually going to be a problem for Doggerland, just give them some kind of penalty, like negative priority for choosing sides or turn order. It would be weird if they had no models with Hatred.

Me and a buddy are going to try this game out, but I don't seem to understand the list creation in this as far as heroes go.

What are faction traits? Does everyone get that faction trait, or just heroes?

If it says I can pick 5 generic traits, does every hero get to pick one from those 5, or all of them can pick each of those 5 chosen as you have silver for?

Also, how many heroes can you have?

>>96817625
>What are faction traits? Does everyone get that faction trait, or just heroes?
Just heroes. Any heroes in the faction can take faction traits.
>Also, how many heroes can you have?
2
>traits
Each hero can take 5 traits. Of those 5, any number may come from generic traits, only 1 from a faction trait, and up to 2 from the hero traits. Hero traits are just for that hero in particular, while faction traits are shared between all heroes in the faction.

What lists are you guys considering?

>>96817718
I'm looking at Morlock, and my buddy is torn between Lemuria and America.

Also, quick note: I can't find any definition for what the Thrown weapon quality is supposed to do. It exists on Javelins as a ranged weapon, but then also exists on tomahawks and tridents as melee weapons.

>>96814307
>How are you facilitating the large-scale reforms that would be required to attribute the level of proficiency in the Danish military that is presented in their rules?
For one thing, a number of their officers being ex-Warfex. It means they would have been exposed the cutting edge of military doctrine (at the time, but still), and they would have carried those ideas with even after the Danish chapters break off. They would ofcourse break with the others on the issue of nationalism. They practice by protecting merchant ships and expeditions in Agartha and "debating" with the Warfare Apologists.
>fifteen years behind in doctrine.
They have about 20 years to catch up before Doggerland. How many years behind was Japan? Also, while Doggerland is do or die for Denmark, for the others it's a colonial conflict, albeit one closer to home.
>I recall the Danes playing ball with L'Ombre when he was a flesh and blood man, but that might be, in this setting's context, more of a problem than a solution.
Could go either way. I might argue Doggerland is a him giving them a chance. There is also Arne Saknussemm, though we haven't done anything with him.
>France
Either they're Liberal and support Danish policy against German, or they're Catholic and will find an excuse to support Denmark just to stick it to the greater of two heathens.
You should also consider that Dousicily and Austria might would support them in order to prevent Germany from gaining too much sway over CEAIC, or breaking too free from their influence, in light of Doggerland ambitions. They couldn't do it in the same way as the French, but once the German's ambitions are apparent, it would be to their benefit to help the Danes economically.
States will sell to anyone, won't they?

>>96814350
>Danes succeed in uniting Scandinavia and seize the Doggerland entrance
Their goal is to force a diplomatic confrontation, not to hold that entrance. Doggerland is leverage for a Scheslwig plebiscite, and convincing Sweden into confederation/union. In a sense, changing the outcome of the war is their goal, only retroactively.
Maybe even that much would blow up in their face, maybe they don't know when to quit and drive themselves off a cliff, or maybe they perfectly thread the needle, only to get obliterated by Hyperborea: Whatever happens after, it happens after.
>seized a point of critical access to the Inner Earth.
Doggerland is a white elephant. Only the British could actually hold it if seriously contested, and the entrance is, quoting the world book quoting the lore doc, "a perilous route across barren lifeless cliff faces 100 kilometers down to the peaks of the Third Layer", and "Adding to the danger are various Wyrms, Lemurs and other creatures infesting the island". On top of that, we said the winds about it are too harsh for air travel to it. To my mind, the fight is more over whose problem it's going to end up.
>>96817932
I recommend America for a first game. Let us know how it goes, please.
>can't find any definition for what the Thrown weapon quality is supposed to do
You can resolved a Ranged Attack with it as part of a move or charge, i believe, but that may not be quite right. On the Trident and Tomahawk you lose the weapon after you do the Ranged Attack. The Javelin you have a number of before you run out and lose the weapon.

>>96818175
Warfex are comprised largely of veterans of recent actions that prompted the spark of nihilism to take hold in their minds. Denmark's last conflict is 20 years old by the time you're suggesting. Perhaps I've misunderstood. Ex-warfex? How does one disengage and go back to supporting national interests after membership in such an organization?

Japan is not a fair comparison. It can be argued the Doggerland is do or die for Germany, a singular chance to control an entrance within local proximity.

Austria and Italy are firmly within Germany's wheelhouse of interests. The CEAIC doesn't make all decisions for the Emperor or the Monarch in Italy. Krupp building railways and the Germans providing the aid that they did, even OTL, would warrant not stabbing them in the back in such an absurd fashion.

States will absolutely not sell to anyone. Where did you begin to believe that was true?

>>96818224
You're out of your mind if you think you can force a Schleswig plebiscite without the complete defeat of Germany in an enormous world-spanning war, as was done after WWI.

Doggerland is an entrance. With the advent of modern technologies, no threat, short of the INNER SVN going supernova, cannot be overcome with sufficient time, resources and effort. Where would be a better spot for Armstrong or Siemens to build a giant freight elevator?

Your proposal is patently absurd. And you know it, which is why the diplomatic repercussions for forming a unified Scandinavia were not addressed. If 2eanon, the man chiefly responsible, it seems, for giving the content a pass/fail stamp for use in the game, is willing to let this material through, I would be tremendously disappointed. I have seen him exercise discretion in this matter before. Remember the Haitan/Creole taking away of Florida from the U.S. thread? In those long forgotten days? This proposal has just as much merit, and the same petty motivation.

>>96812324
Now to actually elaborate. My plan was for the Tsardom to start laying the foundations for some bullshit retrofuturistic space program of their own. It would be done by the more mundane means of a rocket ship, and would rely on the Firmament not being a conventional wall of solid matter, but more of a metaphysical barrier that can be crossed over through application of esoteric sciences. For a nation that produced Tsiolkovsky, Vernadsky and Cosmism in general it's pretty much a given angle to explore. And I wasn't even going to have it all start with Tsiolkovsky, believe it or not, so you know I've dug real deep. However, this was going to be a set up for the future, both due to feasibility concerns and because I was operating under the assumption that we're not having any HyBo exploration until later in the timeline.
If we were to have it happen much earlier, let alone make it an NSR/Danish/Scandi gimmick, it would pretty much kill all the ooomph a secret Tsarist space program would have. Frankly at that point I was convinced everyone would just cream their pants at the polar hyperdiving idea (valid desu, the idea itself is pure cinema) and any argument against it would be untenable and result in pointless coping and seething on my part. But perhaps not.
I do legitimately believe this is too direct and early of an interraction with Hyperborea. If you look at current HyBo aligned organizations they are eiher aligned in spirit, rather than some concrete connection, like the Warfex, or are clandestine cults like Whalurs, GolSyn and the Bifrost Society. The U.S. have some first hand experience, but their ongoing link is what's left of Paraguay and even they don't know that much about what the fuck is going on. The moment actual Hyperborean exploration that doesn't result in some kind of catastrophe is viable and performed by a public organization or a government it would kick off the setting's "space race" analogue.

>>96818398
>Perhaps I've misunderstood. Ex-warfex? How does one disengage and go back to supporting national interests after membership in such an organization?
"Ex-Warfex" was a bad way to put it. I mean to say they were warfare existentialists before they coalesced into Warfare Existentialists. Not like they joined then bailed, more like they split off when you started to have to do stuff like renounce your nation to join. Late 1860s would be on time. A big, seminal even, existentialist writer was Danish, and would have died just 10 years. But, there is something of a split between him and the later guys. Given that and wars, it seems to me that Copenhagen would have been important in the early days of the movement.
>States will absolutely not sell to anyone
The States. The United States of America. Sorry, wasn't clear.

>Japan is not a fair comparison
Oh, if you say so.
>stabbing them in the back in such an absurd fashion.
Selling machinery is now an absurd stab in the back.
>You're out of your mind if you think you can force a Schleswig plebiscite without the complete defeat of Germany in an enormous world-spanning war, as was done after WWI.
>It can be argued the Doggerland is do or die for Germany, a singular chance to control an entrance within local proximity.
Do or die, but not more important than Schleswig. How do you figure that?
>Where would be a better spot for Armstrong or Siemens to build a giant freight elevator?
Everybody gets an Eiffel Tower!
>which is why the diplomatic repercussions for forming a unified Scandinavia were not addressed
No, it's because there is no unified Scandinavia. Scandinavia isn't the faction, and it wouldn't exist until after Doggerland, which is late enough that it doesn't matter. If there is ever a 90s-00s game I'll come up with something then, but until then, it does not matter. If it's so damn important to you, come up with it yourself. I won't dispute whatever you come up with, because it won't fucking matter.

On the subject of Denmark, I've pretty much said the same thing but less eloquently. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that we're unironically discussing putting Denmark into the game alone is already us giving a lot of leeway to Atlan Anon. Denmark that was famously selling off it's colonies IRL, Denmark that here is weaker than IRL, that Denmark.
I believe he was given plenty of suggestions on how this idea could be made tolerable, suggestions he is way too quick to dismiss. As if it is the others making some bold demands in this situation and not him. The only reason I'm willing to engage with the suggestion is his contributions, but I would like to remind everyone that Haitischizo made some great contributions as well and that didn't stop us from just saying "No".
Ironically I, having started dissent over this issue in the first place, find myself with a far less harsh stance on the matter. My red line, at this point, is not letting them back into Iceland and not giving them any Hyperborean gimmicks out of nowhere. Sure, you could potentially contrive a reason why Britian might give them some deal (though that deal is not likely to be in Denmarks favor as Britain has all the leverage). The issue is not if we could, but if we should. And I don't think diluting the narrative/aesthetic impact of Britain's conquest of the island is worth anything Denmark would bring to the table. It's very much to the detriment of both, as it equally dilutes the revanchist angle.

>>96818937
I recall some time ago there was a fellow in these threads that summarized rather succinctly the problem that can often arise via design by committee.

A fellow can come by and post his proposal for a collective of hermaphrodite nazi elves that live on the bottom of an ocean of piss. That sort of thing can and might come up but the critical thing is that others will come along and suggest ironing out some of the glaring problems and you end up with something worthwhile. Or you end up with Voodoo Haitians potentially consuming the American South.

You've dressed your piss elves in excellent Danish uniforms, given them relevant equipment, and even had a some good quotes. You've done the bare minimum of spending an hour on wikipedia. And you need not be so defensive when someone hits you with some cold water and rational criticism.
Keep the profiles. Shove them in the Merc Book. Run your playtests this weekend. Report how it goes. We will all be waiting.

But at the end of the day, so far, you can't defend your poorly written excuses as to why this faction should exist other than 'I had a fixation'. When presented with the realities that would obstruct your vision, you don't adapt, and instead handwave away the entirety. It is summed up best in you concluding statement here.
'It doesn't fucking matter'.

Then why bother? Why did any of us bother? Why do we continue to post?
Because it does matter. Because people give a damn about the setting and its detail too much to let some nimrod come by and be allowed to insert whatever he wishes into the game without scrutiny.


Japan soon.

>>96819341
Man, that is rich. At least you learned to be straight.
>>96819106
>the fact that we're unironically discussing putting Denmark into the game alone is already us giving a lot of leeway to Atlan Anon
>The only reason I'm willing to engage with the suggestion is his contributions
I appreciate that.
>not letting them back into Iceland
I'll live with it. I think Paris is less practical, but i guess that's a moot point. It does make more narrative sense, and that is more important. I still don't don't see it diminishing the Seizure, but thinking about it, it does dilute Cunningham's aesthetic, and that's just as bad.
>not giving them any Hyperborean gimmicks out of nowhere
I'm in agreement. I'm more than happy to cut the rule, or transmute it into a hypo version.

I'll make one last suggestion regarding them, though you could consider it parallel, even an alternative, as it could stand alone, and that's adding Hans Bjelke as a Character. In faction, he would serve as their primary Agarthan representation, and as less 'intense' militaristic list. Even if everything regarding Denmark is rejected in the end, i think he could stay. He would be very good for Denmark's feel as a faction, but he wouldn't need them. He could a rule where he has to go to certain rune stones left by saknussemm.

> 96797456
What we've been doing for a while now, and its probably not clear in the Rulebook so your interpretation isn't strictly wrong as of now, is that we simply do not roll on the second attempt, since it is guaranteed to remove the Wall. This should reduce by half the potential Silver gen.
An alternative, and we could keep the 2 swings to crack the wall thing, would be to turn these into Ore, so that the model will have to survive to the end to score the Silver.
>>96814371
Yes, that's good.
>>96816581
Not without upping its cost, Discipline 6 is already pushing it for its price point. We could make it so that Merde! triggers off Dread 4 and above instead of just above it? It'll still work off Dragoons, Cavern Climbers, Garde Nationale and Petroleuse, just not the other infantry models with 5 Discipline.
>>96817625
2 Heroes max, they can be both from the same profile, and there is no restriction on matching Traits, they can be identical if you want.
5 traits in total. You have 3 spots from where you can take Traits, the Generic ones, you can take as many of your 5 from these as you want. Each Faction has a Faction Trait list in their faction book on the same page as the Generic ones, right below, you can take 1 of your 5 from that one. Most Hero profiles also come with their own lists, which is usually limited to 2 out of 5.
>>96817932
>Also, quick note: I can't find any definition for what the Thrown weapon quality is supposed to do.
Can make an attack at the end of a Move.
>>96817932
>but then also exists on tomahawks and tridents as melee weapons.
Those are dual weapons, they have (or at least are supposed to have, unless I messed something up) both a melee and a range profile.

>>96819390
>He could a rule where he has to go to certain rune stones left by saknussemm,
... and then leave the map from there, exiting on an opponent's side.

>>96818398
>>96814307
Here's what bothers me.
I don't particularly care that that a faction's profiles be representative of the strength of their military at the time. The game is fairly anachronistic in representing tactical innovations however, Prussians getting an additional bonus from laying on the ground is supposed to be representative (in part) of them being the premier military power of the time. Warfare Apologists are basically two decades in advance to everyone and playing by different rules. If armies of the Great Powers could just adopt those practices en masse, if there wasn't some strong suspicion around Warfex as a whole, the Danes would not be the first to have done so.
>>96814350
To be clear, participants in the Doggerland Campaign do not know that there is an Entrance on Doggerland. Reports of structures and people seen on its shores have been coming in for the last year, despite it being cordoned. A few weeks ago, news leaked that France was planning an Expedition to investigate. It isn't clear that whatever is roaming the land and building shit wasn't spewed with its emergence rather than the result of there being an Entrance there.
The Bank keeps (very) slowly rising as well, so one paranoid concern is that whoever claims the Isle of Dogger (the main risen area) will have the upper hand during whatever hellish nightmare negotiations would come out of the landbridge actually reemerging completely (not at all an immediate concern, apart from it being forced right now).
>>96818421
There's already a precedent for a space program with Vernes and the Moon Bullet cracking, so it doesn't really take that much of the surprise factor out of it imho. Especially if what the Danes ended up doing was some weird "lets send folks up the PAIN Waterfall and see where it goes" instead of a proper rocket ship, it doesn't really seem to be in competition.

>>96815072
>>96815103
>Maybe describing it in the timeline as “Crimean war ends in Allied humiliation, despite their victory. Treaty of Berlin. Russian secures the independence of the Danubian Principalities and Serbia, as well as assurances on Bulgarian autonomy”
But this is completely not what I wrote. Tsardom would be in no position to make any demands, let alone these ones.
>China
Yeah, I'm mostly illiterate on China, but I really doubt the Taiping victory would result in them just gigngerly occupying all of China. The fall of and flight of the Qing government a perfect chance for the fringes of the empire to become de facto independent and have outside powers make opportunistic plays. Qing exiles in Manchuria was not my idea, I have no qualms giving it to the Taipings.
>Greece
Because it literally happened in the actual Russo-Turkish war lol.
>Egypt and Persia campaigns
I don't care enough to argue, we can start it in 1871, sure. The war itself, now that I think about it, could be over by winter if the Tsardom is supposed to be really STRONK.
>Paris Treaty
Italy doesn't have to be there to be dissatisfied.
The treaty itself can't be that favorable to the Tsardom. Even the boldest claims made in San-Stefano didn't imply full independence for anyone in the Balkans, just creating a huge Bulgaria as a de jure vassal and more autonomy for Bosnia. More bold ideas floated around, but the competing interests wouldn't allow them to materialize. But as it is, this treaty puts the Ottomans in a state almost as bad as at the outbreak of the first Balkan war. Perhaps that alone is enough to embolden Egypt and Persia (especially if the latter is influenced by the Tsardom). There's also the factor of Murad. IRL he was a crazy man, here he is a crazy man with the plan. His actions are already determined by the existence of Agartha, the Giza entrance and whatever he hoped to find there.

>>96815103
>>96815114
>timing
I'm very much following the vibes and what seems to be the consensus. Murad needs to actually do something underground before shit really hits the fan. One year and some change is enough calm before the storm. I'm also trying to tie everything in with the internal turmoil the Tsardom experienced in late 70s, so Necropolis Incident happening in 74 and Crisis ending in 77 or 78 works better for me. Trust the plan. It will be glorious.
>Constantinople
But the landing now happens after the start of the show. The situation is much different from the original proposal, as after the Incident, even before Murad returns, it is crystal clear that something is rotten in the Ottoman empire and restoring order before they have some kind of Middle Eastern undead Paraguay on their hands would take precedence over any other concerns.
Oh, sure, everyone would know what the Tsardom is pulling, but what are they supposed to do? Just let the city fall? Let the British do their own landing? Will anyone at this point be wiling to just drop everything and oppose the Tsardom? It's not like they get to hold it anyway.
>Italo-Ethiopian war
I think it works fine. They get a seat in Athens, sign the Triple Alliance and get German and (more) Austrian backing. I imagine they'd also be working overtime since 1868 to cajole Britain. Britain's only real concern with Duosiciy/Italy would be in the early years, when they could potentially serve a staging ground for another wave of 1848 or even 1789. After 1868 they are just a regular tyrannical regime that dumps an ambiguous number of people every year into Stromboli. So I don't think anyone would fuck with them directly. This leaves France and the Pope to turn it into a proxy war.
>Egypt borders
Once gain, I followed on others' input. I'd be down to have independent Hejaz. The only stake I have is that pretty much everyone would do their best to cuck the Husks out of the Red Sea and the Gulf.

>>96815114
>Would this be a fleet-based effort? What would this entail exactly? The husks don’t have many ships, if any by the time of the end of the war.
It would entail making sure that nothing makes it in and out, and any refugees undergo inspections. Not just to deny the Husks... well, everything, but to ensure no genius who decides to trade with the fallen empire does not bring a boat full of Husks or some necrotic doomsday artifact home. I imagine smuggling still happens. Some Husks are clearly lucid enough and there's a living population there too.
>Also, while we’re at it, what would happen with the renegade ottoman admirals and captains who want nothing to do with the husk sultan?
Okay, hear me out. What if the Ottoman Empire still exists de jure? Abdul Hamid II is relocated to Cyprus (still nominally an Ottoman territory, as per the treaty), where he rules as sultan and caliph in official capacity.It's just that the British handle, well, everything there. The remnants of the Ottoman navy help protect their home seas under British command. Ditto for German Mesopotamia, though the sultan is yet to visit. Britain and Germany are civilized law abiding powers, they would never engage in barbaric landgrabs. It's all legitimate, perfectly over the table.

>>96819416
Another idea would be a sort of Secret Passages thing, but with a physical entrance on the map, but that might just be better as an environmental thing.
>>96818421
>Warfex
I don't tend to think of them as Hyperborean aligned. To my mind, they are there for the game, not the pain, but i guess you don't really get to chose if you are Hyperborean aligned or not. Just thinking out loud.
>>96819622
Regardless of how it effects the other factions, I don't like the idea of any country having a hyperspace program at present. I could come round to it, but again, it feels like it should be a separate thing. Polar Explorers mini-faction? The problem i see with a Polar Explorers faction, is that it would be hard to contrive reasons for them to interact with other groups, though Vega would be a cool leader. I'd be cool with the Tsardom having one, if it could be cleverly tied to the Eye.
The cracking of the Firmament is different, because they didn't know there was such a thing. It's one thing to accidentally discover Hyperborea, and another to go actively seeking it. Generally, I think anything to do with purposeful Hyperborean exploration should be saved for 'the future'. Also, i feel like if you manged to send someone up the PAIN Waterfall, they wouldn't come back.
Separate from all that, I really do not want Denmark to be a Hyperborean faction. It just has too much gravity, that i fear it would eclipse everything else.

If we are still on for tomorrow morning (10am?), this would be my list.
-Leader: 29
GS Commander (17) Confederado (3) Horse (6) Webley (2) Sabre (1)
-Characters: 56
Dirt Man (8)
Neptunium Baron (25) Horse (6) Dynamite (5)
The Speleologist (10) Lefaucheux (1)
-Followers: 65
5[ Hired Hand (1) Shovel ] {5}
6[ Kentuckian Rebel (7) Gras (2) Bayonet (1) ] (60)

>>96820152
>I don't tend to think of them as Hyperborean aligned. To my mind, they are there for the game, not the pain, but i guess you don't really get to chose if you are Hyperborean aligned or not. Just thinking out loud.
Some of them heard about Thomson guns falling from the sky and are too busy excitedly arguing over the proper tactical usage of such weapons to consider the broader implications. Others are attempting to acquire more and greater weapons still.

>>96813120
>We can push the Prussian ultimatums to the southern German states earlier, if we need to conclude the crisis on time.
As it is I'm suggesting moving it a year later, compared to the current tmeline from the wiki. If it's going to be that close to the Avignon-Vienna schism, there's no reason no to tie it in more concretely.
So the ultimatums would be issued in 1868 but after the treaty of Venice, probably towards the end of the year, with Kulturkrieg proper breaking out in 1869, but otherwise things would stay the same.
>Perhaps Carol's lingering connections are frayed by the Prussian's actions in southern Germany, and by the time of the Great War, the connection is so damaged that his successor takes the opposite side.
Yeah, I figured if the Tsardom was going to make faster moves in the Balkans his Germanophilia might pose a problem for the Romanian alignment, so I initially wanted to do something with Cuza (which would be a whole another can of worms). But if he's more conflicted over the Kulturkrieg he might be more receptive to the Tsardom's influence.
>>96819622
>There's already a precedent for a space program with Vernes and the Moon Bullet cracking
Yeah, did we actually have anything concrete for it? They way everything else is looking it would either have to be a failure or at least end with the expedtion not coming back, and the project being lagely forgotten. Otherwise Americans or somebody else would be trying to make more launches. I imagine in the future when the first hypernauts and first rockets make safe journeys, Americans would start frantically looking for anyone involved, any blueprints, any documentation on the project and make another space cannon (probably through some Edison electromagnetic laputite-assisted bullshit). A Russo-American space race with the first using neptunium powered rockets and the last using space railguns sounds cool to me.

>>96820152
>If we are still on for tomorrow morning (10am?), this would be my list.
I apologize, I'll have to take a rain check, can we do tomorrow morning or Saturday?
>>96819106
>>96819341
(assuming both are from Tsardom anon)
>As far as I'm concerned, the fact that we're unironically discussing putting Denmark into the game alone is already us giving a lot of leeway to Atlan Anon.
This impression is unavoidable, given the timing of it (before Doggerland). What matters is the result. I don't know if Atlan Anon was the one who initially suggested having Denmark participate, but I know he wasn't the only one putting up NSR profiles, so there was at least some interest into it. Until I switched some things around which made it more sensible for me to participate, I was planning on being a Game Master, and the plan discussed then was to have Atlan Anon play as France in my stead.
>>96819106
>that Denmark.
There are factions that have no colonies with representation in the game. A mini-faction (and that's more or less the status that Denmark seems to be going for) could have a few hundred members as far as I'm concerned. La Ombre surely doesn't have tens of thousands, much less the Malcolmites.
I don't know if your frustration at this comes from perceiving this as ruining your plans for your own faction, but it seems very much out of scale to what is suggested here. The comparison to Haitischizo is pretty telling. I suggest you go back and reread those 2.5 threads of extensively researched bullshit and compare it with what you are accusing Atlan Anon of pulling off here, that might give you some perspective. There is no comparison here to the level of world breaking that was pushed there.
> And then the futility of these discussions in a setting that will 100% end within the next 2 decades hits you.
Lol.

>>96820325
>>96820152
>can we do tomorrow morning or Saturday?
Fuck my betraying brains.
Friday morning or Saturday?

>>96819739
>But this is completely not what I wrote.
Oh, I misunderstood then. My bad.

>Greece not intervening
I just checked, you're right. Still think they'd have no real reason not to intervene here, but if the british promise them gains without fighting, I can see them accepting, at least initially. I do still want to see the Crete uprising and all the chaos that happened in the island when the dead rose back.

>>96819935
>timing
When I wrote my proposal, I imagined that Murad had been planning stuff for many years, but the quick fall of the empire after the war with the Tsardom had put him on the clock, and had to rush whatever he was doing. Hence the near immediate nature between the Entombing, the sinking of Istambul and the Necropolis Incident.

>Moving the big crisis to 74-77.
I could agree, but if that is the case we'd have to move the Italo-Ethiopian war a bit further. If in my proposal the war happens between 73-78, in this it can be 75-79, and move the franco-ethiopians dates a bit tear further. Italy needs the cover of the crisis somewhat to do their thing in Ethiopia, otherwise the british and the french would simply close the suez canal and make the campaign a logistic nightmare. Starting in the crisis means that the british and the french wouldn't really oppose the italians as much so as to get them to help against the husks.

> The situation is much different from the original proposal, as after the Incident, even before Murad returns, it is crystal clear that something is rotten in the Ottoman
We could write that a massive uprising happens within the empire after the ottoman defeat in Europe, motivating Egypt to invade and take Hejaz.

>What if the Ottoman Empire still exists de jure?
I thought that was still the case. There's enough living people and sentient husks to keep the empire going.

I wrote too much and I don't know why. I'm not even that invested in this lore footnote, I swear.

THE HALIFAX INCIDENT:

There were many questions asked following the Muan raid on New York. Foremost amongst them was “Where?”, or more specifically, “Where had the attackers come from?” Many of the Saur riders who terrorized the city were riding distinctly terrestrial mounts. They could not have simple emerged from the sea. Searches initially focused on New York state, then wider, and wider still. Caves, mineshafts, and wells were ransacked in this desperate search as the government made preparations for a reprisal using known entrances. The mania which possessed the country, rankled as it was by an attack on the 100-year anniversary of the nation’s founding, continued to grow.

It was at this point something unfortunate was revealed. The British, using a new sort of sounding machine, a Kelvite model, had discovered that the Bedford Basin of Halifax was not the second-deepest harbour in the world, but contained a geographic anomaly which easily made it the deepest by an order of magnitude. From early in the year they had been attempting to chart the anomaly, and had just succeeded in sending various small objects to the Northwestern regions of the Fourth layer, where they would emerge battered and soggy from a small spring near the layer’s Atlantean holdings.

>>96820393
No one is quite sure who revealed this information to the American press, but what happened next can only be described as a failure on both sides. The Americans, unfamiliar with the layer and the Agarthan politics neighboring their newly founded settlement, assumed that this was the entrance used by the Muans. British attempts to dissuade this, arguing over the forces that emerged, their own surveillance of the entrance, its location next to Atlantis and its relative size, all fell on deaf ears. To some these explanations even suggested complicity, bringing back memories of the Chesapeake and Trent affairs of the Civil War. The British were equally at fault, bringing large numbers of soldiers and ships to protect their new discovery and slowing down negotiations by taking all diplomatic control from the recently confederated Canada. This inflamed what was already a tense situation, one side speaking coolly while apparently preparing for war, while the other was seeing threats at every turn from within and without.

The American government, headed by President Grant, reacted as rationally as could be expected. They understood that it was unlikely the Halifax entrance was the primary point of attack, and the British government’s desire to secure their new entrance. Nonetheless, Grant began diverting small numbers from the upcoming Mu raid, just in case. The American public was a different story entirely. Wild speculation and rampant falsehood stirred the public, the expedition against Mu itself still ramping up all the while. Some began to take it into their heads that if the government was unable to act against this clear threat, someone else must.

>>96820397
The Fenians, Irish Nationalists operating in the United States, had previously launched raids into Canada in 1866, and again in the early 1870s. Each time these were defeated with a massive response from Canadian militias, unifying a national spirit and forming a backbone of the 1867 confederation of Canada. By 1876 the Fenians were largely underground, planning their next moves with severely reduced numbers. It was at this point they struck upon a scheme. Why not use the Halifax entrance as a flash point? With the American public inflamed, support from the private sector would hardly be impossible to find, and the British empire seemed to value entrances to the underground more than almost anything else. It almost seemed providence, for they already had a man for the job.

John Philip Holland was an Irish engineer, but not a nationalist. After his submarine designs were turned down by the US Navy in 1875 he turned to the Fenians for funding. The money and resources they could provide to him had been limited, until several unknown investors gave clandestine support to the Fenian Halifax plot. What could have taken three years to design and build accelerated, taking months instead. A submarine, not the first, but the first of practical use. It was christened “The Fenian Ram”.

>>96820404
In 1877, following the start of the Long March to New Mu, the Fenian Ram set off Northwards from New York City. At first towed behind an inconspicuous ship, it was released around Nova Scotia to make the rest of the short distance under its own limited power. Neither especially deep or quick, the early morning water of the Dark Atlantic was more than enough to obscure the craft. There were close calls with British naval craft, deviating from their normal patrol routes almost as if to shadow the invisible submarine. Eventually, this pursuit was halted, and the Ram was able to approach the floating dock which was serving as a preliminary construction site for a deep polder. An explosive device was loaded into the Pneumatic gun, the internal hatch sealed, the external firing port opened, and the trigger pulled.

The North Street Station was a magnificent building, opened that very year in 1877. Magical arches of glass and metal covered special colonist trains, which whisked arrivals to the New World straight to the heart of the continent. The second largest in Canada, it was at that point the most modern station in the whole of the Western Hemisphere. Its glass canopy, the pride of Halifax, would be found in the garden of a Canadian farmer dozens of miles away. The glass was clinging in jagged iridescent shards to the metal frame, crumpled up like a butterfly held in a fist. Other fragments, bricks, rods, and shimmering glass would all be found across the countryside. The Bedford basin, clogged with debris and silt, was no longer the deepest by any metric.

>>96820408
The hope of the Fenians had been to damage the position of the British and thereby compel Irish home rule. Removing an entire city was not simply damage, but a declaration of war. No one publicly took credit for the attack, though the British would eventually discover the culprits and institute harsh reprisals in Ireland itself. Before then, it was the turn of the British empire to scramble for an explanation. Where America had blamed the British for complicity in the New York Raid, the British now had their own accusations to throw. Those same soldiers who had been heading for Halifax were now diverted, lining up across the border of Maine and down to the Great Lakes. The remainder of the professional American army not on the Mu raid, and vast numbers of militia, tried to do likewise. The British demanded reparations, formal apologies, territorial concessions in Agartha, and half a dozen other punishments for the loss of Halifax. America refused each. While the British soldiers were outnumbered by the combined American forces, their use of Analytical engineering allowed them to outmanoeuvre deployments at every turn. To the Americans it seemed as if their entire Northern border had become a thin red line of sour-faced Tommies.

The stalemate wore on for a week, reports of occasional skirmishes hushed, though no fatalities would be reported. Foreign observers noted a slowly sharpening decline in the British stock market, and an influx of panicking American ambassadors to their embassies. Only Germany showed any significant interest in the affair, the other powers either contemptuous of both sides or focused on other matters. Acting as a neutral mediator, they attempted to work out the actual timeline of events. American G-men and Cunningham’s forces tried likewise. Only by an eventual and tentative pooling of the facts would the truth come to light.

>>96820413
The Fenians were tricked. The investors who had funded their project with expertise and gold were uninterested in the cause of Irish independence; they had wanted a war. The Sao Paulo Golden Syndicate, then a legitimate organization of academics and industrialists, had supplied expertise and weaponry the Irishmen needed. What they had not done was explain what exactly they had supplied. A strange weapon, one-of-a-kind and dug from the mud of the Paraguayan jungle in secret. The Fenians were told it would destroy the entrance with a sort of harmless electrical wave. In reality it simply exploded, catastrophically. The syndicate had done this to provoke a war between the United States and the British Empire, through which they could free Brazil from the PACT and set about establishing a version of the long spoken-of “Golden circle” of Antebellum dreams. Much of the expertise supplied to the Fenian Ram actually came from Confederato expatriates involved with the Hunley project of the Civil War.

America could not safely reveal the source of Halifax’s destruction, and it could not alone militarily strongarm Brazil into crippling their industrial center. But it could do the latter with the backing of the British. The Sao Paulo syndicate was beaten down and driven into hiding in the deep jungles of the Amazon, and the cordon around Paraguay tightened as much as possible. Investors from both nations would try to prop up the factories of Sao Paulo, but the people of Brazil nonetheless grew ever more wary of their United States allies. In time this would allow for the clandestine reemergence of the syndicate as a criminal organization with subtle public support in certain regions of the country.

>>96820415
Both sides, with someone else to blame and Agarthan matters to worry about, breathed a sigh of relief after the apparant destruction of the syndicate was complete. The British would never admit it, but many suspect that to accomplish their predictive masterstroke they enlisted the help of nearly every privately-owned Analytical engine in the country, almost crippling their stock market in the brief period of the crisis. Questions were raised as to how these engines were unable to detect the Fenian Ram, only for it later to be revealed that they had. Equations designed around detecting incoming vessels had found one, but diverted craft could confirm nothing and assumed it to be a miscalculation. This failure of British intelligence revealed the harsh limits of predictive technology, as the machines could produce devastatingly cryptic and unclear results even when operating on strict mathematical formulas.

The Americans preferred to leave the affair entirely behind them and focus on retribution against New Mu. The public was soon engrossed of stories of American Saur cavalry and Morlock rebellions against the tyrannical corpse-stealers, wholly forgetting their earlier fervor over entrances as the press moved on. The government, however, did not. To this day the search continues for the entrance used by New Mu, an eternally worrying thorn in the side of the Federal government.

>>96820420
In Halifax, nothing grows, and nothing breathes. The other three Imperial fortresses, Malta, Gibraltar, and Bermuda, were reinforced as much as possible, Iceland taking its place as the newly-crowned fourth fortress. Some say Beatrice Roads will be the fifth. The affair persists in the British mind largely as a prejudice against submarines as a coward’s tool, something which taints their perception of the Spanish, the French, and especially the Germans. But one final event connects to the Halifax explosion. In the docks of the city, now blasted clean, once stood a factory. It was the heart of a mining concern, refining and shipping a miracle material worldwide. Those who benefitted from it are unconcerned with its loss, now seeking greater goals.

On the sign, before the explosion, one could read the following:

“THE CORNWALL ASBESTOS COMPANY”

>Tl;dr: Brits find an underwater entrance at the same time America is having a post 1876 paranoia meltdown, Fenians are tricked by G.S into nuking Halifax to ostensibly free Ireland but really to start a war. A war almost starts but the British juke Americans with predictive technology and then G.S is stomped into hiding. Everyone agrees to forget it and move on with their lives. G.S seethes and goes back to doing pulpy villain schemes (Look at Wild Wild West if you want further inspiration)

>>96820325
>(assuming both are from Tsardom anon)
You're assuming wrong. Judging by the posting style, besides me, Kaiser Anon and someone else have at some point argued against Denmark.
Though now that I think about it...
>>96819341
>A fellow can come by and post his proposal for a collective of hermaphrodite nazi elves that live on the bottom of an ocean of piss.
Holy shit, that's me! That's my joke!

>but I know he wasn't the only one putting up NSR profiles, so there was at least some interest into it.
That's also me! I made the sailor. I believe it was after we played that Mu-Tsardom game in the snow, so I had an idea for a unit with an Affinity for cold water terrain. I didn't mind the NSRs, precisely because they didn't insist on themselves like Denmark does. Their existence, just as the existence of the Malcolmites, L'Ombre, GolSyn does not have the same implications. On an expedition scale, you could conceive of a scenario where they go toe-to-toe with the likes of Britian or France. But Denmark is not a band of mercs, criminals or madmen down there, in the dark, they are an actual nation and their interactions with the big factions and general integration into the larger game world will have to be handled differently. And that's where the myriad of concerns already raised come into play. His willingness to adress them has been mixed, and his insults are not winning him a lot of points. His other opponents, if a little harsh, were still at the height of civility by 4chan standards. So if this brave Dane has been hoping for 1848, he's now looking at 1864.
He has largely adressed my >>96819106 grievances and has yet to reach Haitischizo levels of obnoxiousness, you are correct. So I'm content to take up the position of slightly anti-Danish neutrality on the matter. I still think we could do without it, but I don't dislike it enough to raise further fuss. I implore both sides to settle this without uncalled comments about each other's sexuality.

>>96820415
Overall, good, however
>The Sao Paulo Golden Syndicate, then a legitimate organization of academics and industrialists
I wrote some lore for them, I'm not sure if you've seen it. They wouldn't really be a legitimate public organization, more of a secret cult/club.
>The syndicate had done this to provoke a war between the United States and the British Empire, through which they could free Brazil from the PACT and set about establishing a version of the long spoken-of “Golden circle” of Antebellum dreams. Much of the expertise supplied to the Fenian Ram actually came from Confederato expatriates involved with the Hunley project of the Civil War.
Confederatos themselves may have had such ambitions, but the leaders would be more interested in esoteric affairs and/or simply being able to loot the PEZ after the Americans are gone.
>it could not alone militarily strongarm Brazil into crippling their industrial center, But it could do the latter with the backing of the British. The Sao Paulo syndicate was beaten down and driven into hiding in the deep jungles of the Amazon
Likewise, if the implication here is that the Syndicate was some kind of legitimate organization that was so involved with the Sao Paolo industry, that cracking down on them would have tangible impact on the economy, it portrays a whole different organization and a different Brazil. The original chart proposal was based on a joke/stereotype of modern Sao Paolo being the industrial heartland of Brazil. I believe it only reached this status in early XX century.

>>96820523
>>96820490
Ah, well don't worry too much about it, sometimes its hard to follow this. I've spoken to Kaiser (and I believe also the other anon) and I believe most of those doubts have been addressed, or at least, will be addressed.
>>96820393
Kek, this in turn ruins a bit of a narrative I had for the Eldest Guard & Kentuckian book, but I actually like it, I wasn't terribly fond of what I was going for with it. And anyways, I could say La Ombre was acting through the GS in some fashion and get away with it.
> picrel
Finally figured out a way to cut different shapes of tokens without spending an hour on the mask every time.
The pitch is just that, a pitch, if nothing else this could be used to redo some of the 7 hexes model that most cry out for it, or buildings.

>>96820374
>Greece
I mean the implication is already that they did intervene despite the warnings.
>Suez
Mapanon, we've been over this several times. I really don't think the British are closing the Suez on them and the French would have no control after the Sinking, because if I remember correctly, this was brought up some time ago and we settled on the British buying out the crashed stock. And I am dead sure nobody thought that at the time of writing. This awkward 'round the cape version of the Ethiopian war serves no purpose. At least one person agrees, what exactly makes this hill so appealing to die on?
>We could write that a massive uprising happens within the empire after the ottoman defeat in Europe, motivating Egypt to invade and take Hejaz.
I suppose, but I'm down to just have Egypt and Persia invade earlier, like you've suggested.
>I thought that was still the case. There's enough living people and sentient husks to keep the empire going.
I meant the living one. The original one. I don't think anybody recognized Murad & co as a legitimate continuation. So the British would be keeping Abdul Hamid II as a pocket sultan in Cyprus and the army and fleet are just integrated in some way into the colonial forces of Britain and Germany in their possessions. I suppose a lot could move to other countries and find service there too.

>>96820918
That's what I posted back then
>"The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom." - The Call of Cthulhu, H.P. Lovecraft

>The origins of the Golden Syndicate go back to the enigmatic Schulz brothers (made up), two German '48-ers who migrated to Brazil
>Johann and Karl Schultz eventually settled in and became involved in the gold panning business, however back in Germany their true passion was for the occult
>Because of that the brothers took interest in the local Afro-Brazilian cults like Candomble, worshipping African gods under the guises of the Catholic saints with peculiar and sometimes bloody rituals
>The discovery of Agartha, Indian Rebellion, Abomination Wars and the 2nd Oriental Crisis caused a great wave of occult awakening across the world. The brothers could now pull on their own knowledge of European occultism and newer creeds like Spiritism, as well as scraps of the mystical traditions of Agartha, living and dead, to take their craft even further
>Using their vast knowledge to refine the local rituals, the brothers eventually managed to contact a Hyperborean entity by the means of experimental skull trepanations. The entity took on the form of the African rainbow serpent god Oxumare, but the brothers came to know it as Ouroboross (VRBRS)

>>96820956
>Ouroboros revealed to them many secrets and granted them some unnatural powers, both of which the brothers used to start a secret cult, attracting a following from among the white Brazilian elites, lured by the promises of salvation, immortality and other gifts
>After the Paraguayan Incident, funded by their vast network of patrons, the Schultz brothers organized their first illegal expedition into the Exclusion Zone, returning with many artifacts, kicking off its explosive growth into a larger organization and attracting its international following of amoral scientists, industrialists and God knows who else
>The cult, with its main headquarters in Sao Paolo, has grown and evolved into an international criminal syndicate specializing in the smuggling of Hyperborean and other artifacts and illegal slaving, often for the purpose of human experimentation
>Owing to the first legal source of the cults funds as well as them still employing gold panning as a cover for fishing out anomalous flotsam from the rivers affected by the Paraguay Incident, the organization became known as the Golden Syndicate
>The unification of Germany, however, has ironically caused an ideological splinter among the Syndicate's two founders
>While Johann seemed to have abandoned any semblance of humanity as he delved deeper into the secrets of Hyperborea, mutilating his mind, body and soul with its profane arts and technology, Karl seems to have never outgrown the nationalism of his youth, even if it has long since lost its liberal character
>Eventually Karl abandoned the Syndicate and returned to Germany where he went on to create an organization of its own. Pulling together a motley crew of new generation of occultists, ex-Theosophists, Volkist nationalists and other eccentrics from across Germany and Austria-Hungary, Karl Schultz founded the Bifrost Society, that has been a bitter rival to the Syndicate ever since

>>96820962
>The Syndicate leaderships pursues power and knowledge for their own sake. Even their relations with their Hyperborean patrons are ultimately transactional. Their end goal is to survive the Deluge by embracing it before it arrives, by changing themselves in ways that will allow them to thrive in the hellscape that will emerge. They treat political causes merely as tools, like with their entanglement with the Brazilian republicans and the anti-PACT elements in the Southern Signatories. Their vision is not one of great schemes but individual empowerment, and they see their twin organization as deluded fools.
>The Bifrost Society, on the other hand, seems to have more deeply bound itself to the cause of Greater German nationalism, believing Hyperborea a kind of higher stage of human evolution that is destined to be ushered in by the German people. They see German militarism as both a tool for bringing about the Deluge and the way through which the Germans will themselves be reshaped into Hyperborean perfection and claim it as their birthright. The organization has made some inroads among the German military staff, businessmen and German pan-nationalists, though they keep a very low profile. Anyone hoping to bring about the end of the world would do well to keep their cards close to their chest.

>>96820490
It's good to see some comradeship in skepticism.
It's not personal with the fellow. He seems alright enough. But he is deeply autistic as many of us are and resistant to change or responsive to criticism. The principle of thread vetting is more the issue here. Just because something is someone's pet project doesn't free it from criticism. The root of the issue is believability, which, given what we have so far, is stretched into cellophane with how much reaching he's doing and how little of the substantive criticism he's dealt with without resorting to ad hominem.

2eanon, when you and I spoke last weekend, I cautioned you both about bringing this stuff forward without the fellow doing his due diligence. And wheb predented with some facts and a request is made for explanations i dont think the guy met his burden of proof. And the Haiti comparison I admit it was asinine but it illustrated the principle which is at issue here.

As I said before the easy solution is cramming his profile, which are well designed and synergistic, ibto the Merc Book. The guy gets his busted units, can play them in Doggerland, and we don't have to entertain the Danes as a faction.

Do whatever. In reality, it doesn't matter, as he himself said. Has PDF posting been resolved yet? I might have to break Japan up into a couple or posts this afternoon if I can't get jt uploaded.

>>96821430
As as stated previously, and with every proposal that this thread has examined, the impetus is on the proponent to adapt and argue the merits of their material. The burden has always been on them to demonstrate that the material they want will not just effectively integrate into the already accepted material, but that the material presented also helps develop the complete picture of the setting. The argument is that he has not done this before going off and designing what appears to be an arguably busted faction for use in an upcoming campaign, one of the few instances in playing this system where one could say the game is played for 'keeps'.
>>96820943
I hope it will be addressed as well. But the concern that the fellow was going to proceed forward with a rubber stamp from 2e was ongoing.
>>96819390
I've been playing it straight since this argument began. I had no designs on Denmark. In fact, the only design for the entirety of Scandinavia would have been to keep it as it is. Innocent bystanders to the rough and tumble great imperial game. Narrative construction would appreciate a source of narrators and characters that do not hail from nations with explicit ambitions and interests in the imperial game. MapAnon and his tourist guide works well because the Swedish author, his publisher, his nation, in universe, have no stake in the game, and there is a certain additional novelty that the reader experiences as a result. Perhaps that's too nebulous of a justification.

>>96820948
>the French would have no control after the Sinking, because if I remember correctly, this was brought up some time ago and we settled on the British buying out the crashed stock.
That's a fair point. How would the policy of the canal work around warships? The Convention of Constantinople hadn't been signed yet, that was 1888. Were warships given free passage before the signing?

>>96820918
I've just realized that we have two different versions of Golden Syndicate lore floating around right now. I was working off the simpler one I slapped together for the merc book.

I'm good with cutting the section about Sao Paulo's industry and just having them be a publicly facing gold mining concern that gets apparently wiped out (but really driven into hiding) by British and American pressure. My thoughts are that even when they had a public face it was just a front for the weirder shit.

I checked my usual haunts of the lore doc and the world book but I can't find your lore. I do recall seeing it many ages ago. Can you get it up somewhere so I don't do this again when I inevitably decide to write dozens of pages about the clockwork scout?

>>96820943
>Kek, this in turn ruins a bit of a narrative I had for the Eldest Guard & Kentuckian book
Dammit I am stepping on all the lore toes this week. First Tsardom's space program, then G.S, now this. I need to start updating the wiki more but it's less fun than adding more lore to the horde.

On the topic of the Denmark/Tsardom firmament exploration, I have ideas to present the Denmark side in a hopefully interesting but extremely limited manner to avoid wrecking shop, I can post later today. I think that without any sort of weirdness that Denmark is kind of just a generic military microfaction, but also that we don't want to just repeat earlier ideas again with them.
Before then I think we should probably figure out the exact canonicity of From Earth to the Moon. The space gun from that has been brought up a few times on and off.

Gentlemen! Two things, one ive lost my copies of the final Above and Below political compasses, if someone wouldn't mind posting them again.

Two, im playing as Lemuria tonight. When do I activate prophecies? Do they count as an action? Im fuzzy on the timing.

Im really excited to play with the fleshy growth mechanic though.

>>96823236
I use this thread to source the final charts:
https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2023/88692518/

Lemurian prophecies activate depending on their description. Some have conditions, others are instant. I've always used prophecy as a 1 AP action but that could be completely wrong

I forgot about the fleshy growth thing to be honest. Lemuria is such a weird faction, but we love them for that. What's your list like?

>>96823270

Its an absolute cluster fuck; but my main gimmick is having the Cultivated and the Flesh Construct pal around together shitting out Growths. This is supplemented with inevitable deaths of my Degenerates. Then my Enchantress with buff the fuck out of Officer.

This is all theory of course. I have a feeling my friends Morlock list will tear me apart.

The Lemurian Officer 28

Armor of Office, Enchantress Pet, Born to Lead, Officer Training

Two Handed Axe

Enchantress 40

Daggers, Mummy Tongue, Cultivated Eye

The Cultivated 7 Silver

Musket, Bayonet

War Shaman 18

Torch, Sword

Flesh Construct 21


X3 Vedic Warrior 15 each

Buckler, Sword


X 2 Akashic Archers 16 each
Long Bows

X5 Degenerate Lemurians 2 Each
Pickaxes, Torches

Japan now. Hopefully this will work. If not, it's going to end up on the vile application because there's not a practical way to get eyes on it.

Expedition: Agartha Descent - Scramble for the Center of the Earth
Japanese Empire Supplemental Proposal

Critical Figures
Emperor Meiji - Per the records dating back to the times of the Gods, the 122nd Emperor of Japan, responsible for the command and control of a no longer feudal, imperial state. It was at his majesty’s behest that Japan began the painful metamorphosis from backward feudal state to an industrialized, world power. The man himself is a complex animal. Devoted in early life to the classical confucian studies of poetry and calligraphy, his birth was rapidly followed by the expedition of Matthew Perry, whose ‘Black Ships’ sailed to Edo, and attempted to open Nippon to the world. Under his leadership, and that of his council, Japan has evolved from prey, into a predator in this great imperial age. Despite the debacles in Satsuma, and the tragedy in Hokkaido, his government has presided over the greatest time of progress recorded in Japanese history. It was under him that the industrial revolution was brought to Japan, and it will be under him that the rising sun will be acknowledged as the foremost power in Asia, and all the layers of the earth.

>>96823985
Marquis Jutoku Saigo - Raised to noble rank back up from the origins of a disgraced family of samurai, Marquis Jutoku Saigo acts as General of the Infantry and Marine Divisions of the Imperial Japanese Army. His uncle, Saigo Takamori, led the Satsuma rebellion against the rising power of the new Meiji emperor, until Satsuma itself subsided beneath the waves, only to be rediscovered many years later, an exarchate, a moment frozen in time from the days of the shogun. Saigo was foremost responsible for repairing the damage done to the Japanese military apparatus after the rebellion, including the reincorporation of rebel forces into the army and navy. It would be through him that numerous foreign advisors would be employed in Japan, helping demonstrate modern tactics, and the use of modern technologies, on the ever-changing landscape of the battlefield. In his clandestine capacity, he directs the cut-out of the Japanese government that the Satsuma domain has become, now that it has been reconciled with the homeland.

>>96824001
The Meiji Oligarchs - Other than the German Wertwirtschaftfuhrers, or the Rockefellers or Chase families in the United States, perhaps economic and political power is nowhere as effectively concentrated within individual servants of one nation state as it is amongst the Meiji Oligarchs in Japan. Primarily held responsible for the abolishment of the ‘four classifications of people’, or ‘four occupations’ a Confucian principle that had informed the social structure of feudal Japan, in favor of a, while not entirely free, and not entirely westernized, modern social structure. Toshimichi, Aritomo, Takayoshi, and Hirobumi are just a few of the names of men that now strive to pull Nippon, kicking and screaming, into the modern age. A rotational system of reforms have been adopted. It begins with state subsidization of industry and the construction of infrastructure, paid for by taxes levied on the citizenry. As the taxes increase, social agitation reaches a point where societal reforms are made necessary. With societal reforms completed, the great Meiji wheel continues to spin. As members of the Imperial Diet and men who counsel the Emperor on critical matters, the power they wield to direct the new nation is immense. Down below, where a fragment of their past lies in state, they might find their grasping fingers cut by the remnant samurai’s steel.

>>96824011
Yamagata Aritomo - Leader of the new model Imperial army in the Satsuma rebellion, and now kicked upstairs to Chief of the Japanese General Staff. Controlling the rebellious former servants of the samurai and the samurai themselves in the aftermath of the Boshin War would never have been an easy task, but Aritomo would not have himself been given tasks of an easy nature. Following the Takabashi Mutiny in 1878, his issuance of an ‘Admonition to Soldiers’, attributed to the philosopher Nishi Amane, would set the groundwork for the next decades of Imperial Army reform. The bedrock of this admonition, in his own words, is ‘steadfast loyalty to the Emperor of Japan in all capacities’, not just on an individual level, but the unit and formation level as well. Questioning the order issued by higher officers is not simply a shameful act, but a potentially treasonous one. Discipline is to be enforced, in the German fashion, and flogging might be the least of a non-conforming Japanese soldier’s fears. All this to say, that Aritomo would go on to accompany Iwakura Tomomi on his journey throughout Europe and North America, seeing what the very center of modern life looked like. Initially a proponent of the French model of army drill, after a brief stay in Wiesbaden while examining the offerings of Krupp at the Volkerschiessen, where the news circulated of a great victory against the nefarious denizens of the Inner Earth in 1884, Aritomo became a proponent of the German model. His plans for an overhaul of infantry and artillery doctrine are still in the making, and he, per the wishes of his emperor, will continue to support the Imperial Navy’s adoration of the British. At least, for the time being.

>>96824027
Fukuzawa Yukichi - While his origins lie in a lower-ranking samurai family during the end of the Tokugawa period, philosopher, autodidact, and eventual founder of the University of Keio has, with the written word, begun to upset the prior two thousand years of Japanese history. While still under the governance of the Shogunate, Yukichi would be sent to the United States in 1860 and Great Britain in 1862, to gain insight into how the world had changed since Japan had closed it’s waters and borders several centuries before. To his surprise, he saw not only great strides in technology, but an opportunity for Japan to finally divorce itself from its now-backward, Asian neighbors. Now with this great ‘Heavenly’ rising in China, an opportunity comes for Japan to become an Imperial predator, rather than colonial prey. These philosophical principles are presented and, to many reader’s satisfaction, effectively justified in Yukichi’s numerous writings, which, now with modern presses, can be distributed widely amongst the Japanese population. While Seiyō Jijō (Conditions in the West) gave insight into how technology and industrialization have permeated the social structure of European countries, and Gakumon no Susume (An Encouragement of Learning), explained Western civilization and it’s near faustian pursuit of knowledge, Yukichi now advocates for fundamental social change in the empire, as a tool that might bring them closer to the West, than to the East.

>>96823486
Upon closer inspection it seems (at least to me) you can kind of use your prophecies willy nilly (aside from High Prophecies which I assume you can declare at the start of a turn the other one resolves/fails.) Of course the more you use them the higher chance of your Prophets turning into mewling, dribbling Degenerates.

>>96824043
Iwakura Tomomi - Just as Peter the Great endeavoured to modernize the Tsardom by establishing a ‘window on the West’, that he might look through and gain insight, the Japanese Empire isn’t just building a window. They’re building an entirely new home, windows and all. While tensions from the recently concluded Boshin War remained in the nation, the Imperial faction had decisively grabbed, and held onto, supreme power. Thus, it became necessary to dispatch representatives to learn and make judgments on how Japan would rehabilitate its political, economic, social, and military structures from the previous centuries spent lagging behind in isolation. Enter Iwakura Tomomi, an older man born into nobility under the reign of Emperor Komei and the Tokugawa, who began his life dressing in silken robes and wood-block sandals, but now rises in the clatter of a business suit and a steel kettle on the stove. It was Tomomi that began the eponymous Iwakura missions, effectively dispatched to determine which of these new modern nations in the Western World performed what task or developed what technology the best. Naturally, the mission would note their findings, and eventually present them to the Emperor and his Diet for adoption in the legislature, acceptance by the Zaibatsu, or integration into the military. His own focus was largely of monetary policy, and his propositions to the Emperor in 1873 included the formation of a central bank, the mutual adoption of congruent coinage between both the Japanese Empire and the Satsuma Domain, and the importation of machine tools and foreign experts to begin building a domestic, Japanese copper industry in the newly-recaptured island of Hokkaido.

>>96824053
Critical Events

The Boshin War and Sinking of Satsuma - When the American Commodore Matthew Perry landed his ‘Black Ships’ on the coast of Japan and began establishing relations with the previously isolated island nation, he began a string of events which would culminate in a great civil war across the island chain, and the eventual rise of a supreme authority in the form of the Japanese Emperor. As it became increasingly obvious that the Samurai and the Tokugawa Shogunate social and economic models were insufficient to the task of keeping Japan safe from colonial predation by greater powers, and as the internal disruptions such as the coups in Choshu and the presentation of a Proclamation of Restoration to the national assembly, the struggle began. Within a year and a half, the conscript army modelled on the western powers had destroyed the last vestiges of military power held by the samurai and the shogunate. However, the determination as to the role of the samurai under the new Imperial system had not yet been made, and many samurai considered the encroachment of Imperial power into their sphere of social control to be a step too far. Eventually, this tension would again flare up in the form of the Satsuma rebellion, which, and the culmination of the battle of Shiroyama in the spring of 1877, the entirety of the island subsided into the deep blue waters of the pacific. Later, in 1880, when the reconquest of Hokkaido afforded the Japanese Empire a glimpse into Agartha, it was discovered that, just as Paris had survived her fall into the inferno, the Satsuma Domain, with it’s feudal structure, had not simply survived, but had adapted and thrived.

>>96824066
The Meiji Restoration - With the Imperial victory in the Boshin War, and the crushing of rebellion after minor rebellion throughout the country as unruly samurai were brought to heel and integrated into the new system, the Emperor Meiji, who now wielded a centralized power not seen since the mythological emperors far back into Japanese history, began to evaluate his priorities. It had been through the adoption of a new model army that victory over the remnants of the shogunate had been achieved, and the Emperor, his privy council, and his Imperial Diet began the process of economic, socio-political, and military modernization that would become known as the Meiji Restoration. After a jet-lag of nearly three hundred years, and only maintaining contact with the outside world through the Dutch and Portuguese in controlled circumstances, Japan walked into the outside world and beheld a great change. Not only had the world modernized, the world had been hollowed. Below the surface, the great empires now take their slice of the melon. The emperor intends to bring his own knife to the table, soon enough.

>>96824072
Hokkaido Unrest - In 1879, Mount Usu, once thought to be a long-extinct volcano on the southern neck of the island of Hokkaido, began to roar with life. The villages most proximate to the base of the mountain were quickly vacated of life. Survivors would eventually escape to the mainland and report the unthinkable; the great masked legions of New Mu, rising up from their domains in Pangea and Mnemosynia. Spears in hand, and magicks on the wind, Muic forces rounded up native Ainu and Japanese colonists all the same, drove them in herds towards the mouth of the volcanic mountain, and bade them march downwards, into whatever senselessly brutal captivity would please their arcane masters. By 1881, it became apparent to the Japanese government that some measure of intervention had to be launched. Their prior experiences with Taiwan in 1874 demonstrated the effectiveness of their fleet and their army in joint operations. Now would be the true test, against an enemy from within the earth. A bloody and ferocious campaign would thus be fought across the breadth of Hokkaido, the liberation of each Japanese possession revealing more of the Mu’s tendencies. By the spring of 1883, forces of the 3rd and 5th Marine Brigades, or Rikusentai, working in concert with the Japanese fleet, had bottled up the Muic forces around the foreboding silhouette of Mount Usu. There, a deadly stalemate had been created. No authorization to push forward from the Emperor had been provided. No Muic sallies from the mountain have been sighted. What manner of detente have the Japanese fallen into?

>>96824082
The 1874 Taiwan Expedition - Less than a decade after the end of the Boshin War and the start of the great Meiji modernization, Japan embarked on it’s first colonial venture. It will not be the last. Three years prior, a Japanese ship had run aground on the coast of Taiwan, and it’s crew, 54 hands in all, were brutally murdered by the native tribes of Paiwan, which had been nominal tribute-bearers of the Qing Emperor, and since the ascension of Hong Zinquiang to ‘Heaven’, stood unguarded and without allies. A perfect target. Six warships and nearly four thousand men landed in the island in May 1874, and within six months had reduced and subjugated the native peoples of Taiwan, in the fashion that the Chinese had several centuries earlier. A partial occupation force remained on the island for the next ten years, but western observers from Britain and France noticed a certain savagery by which the Japanese treated the native population. These tendencies were tempered when the Japanese soldiery began to notice western photographers, but not entirely stamped out. The occupation force remains, and Taiwan, as it is, was integrated as the first overseas territory of the Japanese empire.

>>96824093
The Blood Tax Riots - While many Japanese commoners were appreciative of the abolishment of the shogunate at the end of the Boshin War, there were unaddressed questions and concerns for which the new Imperial government did not have immediate answers. When the Emperor and his cliques began to present new innovations and modernize the country, there were those amongst the populace, even outside the former samurai class, that resisted. In the summer of 1873, the Imperial Diet enacted a universal order of conscription for all males in the Japanese Empire. Further, the Diet enacted a law that required all children to be enrolled into the newly-constructed public schooling system, on penalty of fines. Particularly in rural areas, where the peasantry were confounded as to how to transport their children to the urban centers to get them to school, lest they face fines, and where they were angered at the thought of losing their sons, husbands, and fathers to an order of universal conscription rather than having them contribute to the maintenance of agricultural land, riots began to break out against the enforcement of the new laws. Salacious tabloids, a new phenomenon in Japan, began to circulate rumours that the lower classes would be forced to provide syrettes of blood at gunpoint by the government, and that the Burakumin, the effective untouchables of feudal Japanese society, would be integrated into society through the laundering of their identities. Local police proved ineffective in restraining the unrest, and the Emperor, in an ironic twist, approved the dispensation to the treasury of funds for the hiring of samurai mercenaries to begin dousing the maddening flames of hysteria that wracked the Japanese countryside. Until the winter of 1874, more than 60,000 individuals were arrested in connection with the riots, hundreds were killed by the police and their samurai auxiliaries, but only a baker’s dozen were executed after trial.

>>96824107
Satsuma-Tokyo Reconciliation Conference - When the remnants of the Samurai Satsuma Domain were discovered during the course of Agarthan colonisation, a strange nerve was struck in Japanese society. Many recalled the days before the Emperor took supreme power and began the process of modernization. Even the few sufficiently educated and even fewer in positions of power could answer the question as to what would be done with this effective exarchate situated down below. There remained little communication between the Home Islands and the Satsuma, until an expedition, led by the Lieutenant General Jutoku Saigo, nephew of the Satsuman Shogun Saigo Takamori, was dispatched to resolve the conundrum. The General’s orders from the Emperor were short and sweet, as the tea times afforded with the Emperor did not permit a grand debriefing. ‘Get it under control.’ Four words that now would determine the fate of the last Samurai. By the summer of 1879, a kind of accord had been reached. It became clear that, rather than just preserving a great deal of Samurai in this subterranean stasis, almost the entirely late-feudal Japanese society had survived, and built a sizable domain on the shores of the Neo-Tethys. Despite several weeks of argumentation and prevarication from both parties, even this new Shogun was compelled to respect the authority of the divine Emperor. It was under this basis that the ‘Two Nations, One Sovereign’ principle would be adopted. The Satsuma Domains, extensive as they are, and defended zealously by the last remaining samurai, may maintain a nominal independence, but swear fealty directly to the Emperor Meiji. Furthermore, the Satsuma would be economically tied to the Japanese on the surface through the adoption of a single currency, and would be required to defend and aid citizens of the Japanese Empire traversing Agartha, if attacked.

>>96824119
The Iwakura Mission - Emerging from three centuries of isolation, Japan’s national structures were as a termite-ridden house. Creaking, smelling of dry-rot, and desperately in need of a new framework on which to build. It was a strange example of Japanese introspection, the realization that they had fallen so far behind, and in contrast to other peoples who would look inward to determine shortcomings and begin overcompensating in some fashion, they looked outward, and became determined to learn all they could about what each great power did best. In 1871, lead by the former noble turned diplomat Iwakura Tomomi, a large Japanese delegation travelled the world and began an in-depth analysis on the relative strengths, and weaknesses, of the great powers of the world. While most of the time of the mission was spent in traversing Europe, some time was also dedicated to examining the United States, the nation most responsible for bringing Japan out of the past and into the present. It would be here that Japan would learn how it might become a great imperial power as well, and the attitude of the delegates that they ought to become more like the West than seek companionship and solutions from Taiping China endeared them all the more to the hosting powers.

>>96824123
The Christian Faith and the Japanese Empire - When Christianity first found its way onto the shores of Nippon, it was not received with particular grace. In some instances, the proponent of Christianity towards the Japanese population might be slowly boiled to death. Over time, as Dutch and Portuguese trade became part of Japanese interaction with the world, Christianity was studied, and then largely rejected by the ruling powers. The key point of contention being that, Christianity implies the existence of a lord that exists above all on the earth, even the allegedly divine Japanese emperor. For centuries under the Shogunate, there had been a large-scale persecution of Christians, both converts and missionaries, who attempted to spread the word of God in the island chain. However, as Japan became open during the course of this century, and modernization methods were imported from Christian nations, a certain detente had to be reached between the Japanese government and the Christian faith. Unlike in Europe, where nations often pick one denomination or another, Japan does not discriminate in this fashion, and simply identifies the follower as a Christian foremost, a Catholic or Protestant second.

>>96824135
Critical Innovations
Zaibatsu Principle - While the aggregation of economic power and resources in the form of central organizations is not a new principle in the history of the world in general, such a concept was new to Japan when she opened her bosom to the modern world. As a form of family-owned, vertically-controlled monopolies over certain industries, the Zaibatsu were formed in an effort to provide a structure that a modern industrial economy could be built upon, and could act at the French outlined under dirigisme, as the directors of economic activity, vectoring the industrial development of innovation into the most worthwhile endeavours, and leaving others for less critical parties to explore and develop. It is their actions and contributions to modernizing Japan that will determine their legacy. Mitsui, building the first private bank in the empire. Sumitomo, funding the excavation of copper and coal, plentiful as they are in the Home Islands. Mitsubishi, serving first as mining logistics, and expanding into the construction of engines and ships, providing a beating heart to the new economy. While most of these organizations have origins that lie deep in the shogunate period, their new management, and the new power, is something yet unseen.

>>96824146
Drycell Battery - An innovation by the young inventor Sakizo Yai, who first applied the principle to use in powering an electronic clock. The drycell battery, in contrast to modern aggregated glass mat, or lead-acid, does not rely on a liquid conductor and instead, on a conductive paste that is laid into the body of the battery. Innocuous in itself, the potential for application is immense. Drycell batteries have a smaller profile and lighter weight than traditional batteries, and may be used to power smaller devices more practically. With the Japanese adoption of the German mechanized walker program, and innovating in their own fashion, the use of large drycell batteries permitted their version of the walker to not require reciprocating diesel engines to provide power and locomotion. Far quieter, far sleeker, and far less costly, as the Japanese Empire lacks an immediate natural source of petroleum.

>>96824156
Naval Telegraphy - Learning from the best is important to improve oneself. The principle applies to individuals as well as nation-states. No nation-state perhaps understood this better than Meiji-era Japan. When it came to determining the model on which the Japanese Navy might be based, there was no choice other than the Royal Navy. Despite it’s continuously strained logistical system, it remains the most effective seafaring force in the world. The British shipyards have received numerous construction and purchase orders from the Japanese government for everything from torpedo boats to armored cruisers, and the British are happy to provide doctrinal instruction, welcoming Japanese naval cadets into the schools in London, just as they did with the Germans. A true Japanese contribution however, would be their installation of telephone exchanges into the bridges of their vessels. As the Austrians brought the Grand Budapest Telephone exchange online in the early 80’s, the Japanese looked on in wonder, and beheld a weapon. Seamless communication between vessels, now no longer bound by weather conditions and a banner-semaphore system.

>>96824166
Shimose Powder - The modern world of chemistry has been the unsung hero of the century, and certainly overlooked since the discoveries made within the inner earth. However, just as every other field of science, it continues to advance apace. In addition to penicillin, quinine, and the more recognizable innovations, smokeless blasting powder and propellants have come into use in the most modern of weapons. Even Japan, whose small but burgeoning chemical industry has had the chance to skip the prior three hundred years of mass poisonings and laboratory accidents the history of chemistry has demonstrated in the rest of the world, has contributed their own innovation on the advent of modern explosives and propellants. Namely, the Shimose Powder, as the naval engineer Shimose Masachika, not unlike those propellants based on picric acid that are currently in use in Western navies. However, picric acid itself becomes unstable upon contact with iron and other heavy metals. To combat this, the western powers dilute the mixture with vaseline or other colloids, losing some of the explosive power that picric acid offers. The Japanese, instead, have applied the resin of the Oriental Lacquer Tree, and sealed away the acid from contact with the shell housing, maintaining the excellent explosive potential without dilution.

>>96824174
Garabo Spinning - For many centuries, man would journey across the breadth of Asia to gain access to the textile that most in the world now call silk. Demand for silks among the European aristocracy actually increased, as a pandemic of flacherie among silkworms in Europe nearly destroyed production locally. While popularity of silk has decreased at the midpoint of the century as more contemporary fabrics have come into fashion, the material remains useful in a number of applications. Perhaps most infamously, in the creation of parachutes and safety equipment for those men foolish enough to board flying machines. In Japan, where the cultivation of silkworms and the production of silk have been economic cornerstones since 1000 B.C., modern methods of fabric manufacturing meet old traditions to create the Garabo Spinning Machine. Essentially a planetary gear with extruding teeth that bound together strands of silks, affixed them into a loom-frame, and wove silk thread without the need for human input, besides the pedal to power the mechanized movement, the machine itself is simple to produce, and can be made even with the limited domestic machine tooling that Japan can import from western nations. As a result of the application of this machine, silk exports and production have doubled under the Meiji Emperor.

>>96824185
Two Nations, One Emperor - Notasmuch a new concept, as an already existing governmental principle applied in a new fashion. Take the British Commonwealth and Empire, whose Australian, Canadian, and South African holdings are all tied to the sceptered isle by a shared sovereign. All share the majesty of her highness, and all walk, more or less, together, towards a shared destiny. In the case of the Japanese, we see a similar position adopted by their government, as it pertains to their relations with the fallen samurai domain, Satsuma. It is a strange thing, to have an outgrowth of your nation that is a reflection of your own, but situated far in the past. It isn’t inconceivable. Men in Japan, in living memory, recall the Shogun and the samurai, some with a certain fondness. But as we near the modern era, those differences may need to be reconciled. The conduct of the samurai and their stark contrast to the changing nature of Japan itself, may prove troublesome, if the rising sun is ever meant to eclipse its enemies, both above and below the earth.

>>96824193
Critical Entities
The Imperial Japanese Army - In contrast to some nations whose standing armies were born from the dissolution of the local nobility’s personal retinues, Japan’s army was born in the office. After the Boshin War concluded, the conscript army that had learned modern western tactics and utilized modern western equipment, went home to their families and didn’t consider that they were going to be part of an organization that demanded years-long service. The new Imperial administration, realizing that their army was heading back to their ploughs and homes, lacked the resources and infrastructure to recruit and train the men in the fashion that the westerners did. Thus, the first budget allocations for the military in Imperial Japanese history were for the construction of offices and practice fields, where that work could be done, and the military could be built from the ground-up. Once built, peasant men looking for work, masterless samurai, veterans of the Boshin War, all stood together on the drill square, and began to form the core of the most effective fighting force in Eastern Asia.

>>96824211
The Imperial Japanese Navy - The first naval review, and assembly, in Japan took place in Osaka Bay, just before the start of the Boshin War. One year and six months later, the Imperial Japanese Navy was formally established, with six steamers, three paddleboats, and one formerly French ironclad. In the following sixteen years, and with the input of both French and British naval engineers, the Japanese now sport the most powerful Asian fleet in Asia. In this time, the Japanese have formed marine landing divisions, learned torpedo drill, and made the progress in that decade and a half that took the European powers more than a century. Now finally receiving budget allocations from the central government that equal that of the land army, a tension begins to creep up the spines of both generals and admirals. Whose forces will it be that leads the rising sun towards it’s ultimate goal of empire in the Pacific?

>>96824222
Satsuma Reconciliation Committee - One of the strange requirements of Japan acquiring it’s ‘second colony’ in Satsuma, is that there needed to be some interface of government by which complaints against the samurai, or by the samurai, which had been disregarded as the social reforms of the Meiji took hold in mainland Japan, still took place in Mnemosynia. While the Emperor’s command that the raucous samurai domain be brought ‘under control’, was effectuated, a mechanism by which news, law-making, and other innovations be brought towards the Satsuma was needed. From the samurai’s perspective, there needed to be a mechanism by which their ancient, legal rights were to be administered by a previously powerless, now all-powerful emperor. Herald then, the coming of the Satsuma Reconciliation Committee, a body of legal authorities, some based in Tokyo, others down below, whose singular purpose is the resolution and congruence of jurisprudence between the two states.

>>96824233
Imperial Diet - In contrast to the autocracy of the Tsardom, or the iron-hand of the German Kaiser, or the parliamentary monarchy of Britain, setting aside the republics of the United States and France, the government of Japan is a complex beast. Nominally, as with all things, the Japanese emperor sits at the top, presiding over his subjects. After the Boshin War and the literal fall of the samurai, the Emperor and his council of oligarchs approved the creation of a closed docket, inquisitorial form of judiciary, based on the French model, and a bicameral legislature amongst whose ruling membership a Prime Minister is selected by the Emperor. Drafting of a modern constitution is still ongoing, but rumours abound in the legislatures that universal male suffrage may be introduced sooner rather than later.

>>96824251
Bureau of Agarthan Colonization (Agaruta shokuminchika-kyoku) - All the great powers of the world, since the discovery of the inner earth, have made strides to go forward and engage with this new set of worlds beneath our own. The Japanese are no exception. While a latecomer to the great Imperial game of colonization beneath the earth, their exarchate in Satsuma provides an excellent springboard by which a more fully-fledged colonial effort might commence. While the passage between Satsuma and mainland Japan is presently only navigable by balloon, foreign powers with certain technological edges are being sought by the Japanese to rectify this shortcoming. As it stands, outside of the Satsuma domains, there is no independent Imperial Japanese presence. For now.

>>96824261

Army List
Imperial Japanese Infantryman
Field Kabuki
Imperial Japanese Marine
Kempei
Imperial Guard
Satsuma Geisha/Clockwork Geisha
Naniwa-class Cruiser
7cm Mountain Gun
28cm L/10 Howitzer
SKH Walker - Sōkō kikai hokō-sha
Hokkaido Survivor
Lieutenant
Colonel
Admiral Saigo Judo

Army Rules

Tenno-Heika, Banzai!

Gyokusai

Two Nations, One Empire

Faction Traits
???

That's a wrap for that. I really hate to spam the thread but without PDF functionality, that's the only way to convey all ideas drafted simultaneously. We had discussions some time ago on what the nature of Japanese-Satsuman relations would be but I don't recall which one it was. Might be worth reviewing. Faction traits and unit draft cards to be presented soon.

>>96823486
>Its an absolute cluster fuck
Lemuria is like this. It is a very powerful clusterfuck however. It definitely is the faction with the highest complexity atm, so good luck on using them for your first game.
Prophecies all have their own mechanics, I realize now its not clear from the rules so I'll add that up.
High Prophecies are meant to not cost AP and can be attempted during Deployment before the game (you can only have one at a time anyways). Low Prophecies should costs 1 AP, unless they are resolved through a profile's special rule (like the Warrior's version of Shield says you can do it once per turn, that's free, I'll specify that.)
The Infested Degens make the Fleshy Outgrowth mechanic easier to run, you just have to sacrifice one other non-degen model and they all melt down. It isn't essential to run the Chrysalis, however, but it'll make it faster.
Morlocks are busted when they have all their bubble effects stacking, which requires keeping the whole shoal tight together. Don't throw your Warriors in just because they have much better stats, if your opponent brings Morelocks & Tall Fins all the other fishes close by are suddenly actually decent tier.
Anything that is outside of the overlap of two Tall-Fins can die every attacks you make, so check for those. If your opponent stays static, use Predestination early on to get some free charges in a row in the late game.
It depends what your opponent brings, if he goes for the 5x busted Tall-Fin heroes, the individual fishes will be strong, but you should be able to outfight them. If he goes for the Ink Sacks and puts his models Hidden, then Altered Fate will be your friend.
The best of luck.

>>96822777
>Can you get it up somewhere so I don't do this again when I inevitably decide to write dozens of pages about the clockwork scout?
Sure, no prob. I might as well make a wiki page for GolSyn and copypaste it there as a placeholder.
>>96821775
Before the Italians even become a factor, Germans would (ideally) have to pass there to start messing around with the Gulf. I imagine with the British taking over the canal faster there'd also be an earlier push to internationalize its use by the other powers. I believe the Austrians were also somewhat involved there. With the Germans feeling comfortable enough to do their thing in the Gulf in 1873, I imagine it was already a thing by then. Perhaps it could be signed as soon as it's open, or maybe in 1870, seeing as how it would be obvious that the British would have de facto control of it.
>>96815491
Sorry missed this
>Are you going to do some lore for the origins of the tsardom's colonies? I was under the impression that the Tsar's eye was the thing that pushed the tsar to move into the deep.
Naturally, but I did not plan for anything special? They found the entrances, they set up the colonies. Perhaps they could be somewhat neglected until Alexander II gets the eye, but having these colonies sounds like enough motivation on its own. It would be a pretty welcome outlet for the overpopulated and land-starved central regions. The dates look fine to me.
Also, Map Anon, looking back on our conversation I realize I might come off as a bit rude. I don't really *mean* anything by it, it's just how I talk at this point. You don't seem to mind, but that's no excuse. I'll dial back the constant unnecessarily confrontational post-ironic semi-snark and try to talk like a normal person.

>>96821430
>>96821747
I wasn't going to purely make these profiles 1 to 1 without review. They aren't busted, they certainly are a bit above the power curve, but not in anyway OP.
This shit is draining my will, not going to lie. We use to seek synchronicity, now its all this fucking bullshit.
Kaiser how is this any different than what you are doing right now. You are aware we have made 8 profiles already for Satsuma, right? Apart from a mention in the OG lore doc which was never taken as a directing document until you suddenly started insisting on it, Germany was not mentioned in any of the discussions of factions to be included in waves which had been made before. This is all about our pet faction of the moment for fuck sakes and no, presenting a 3 page documents to prove that what you are doing is realistic is not going to make the end result better.
Fuck.

>>96819106
>Denmark that was famously selling off it's colonies IRL
You know, this does raise a good question: whom would they sell Nicobar to? Certainly not Britain or Germany. Unless they'd decide to hold onto it out of spite, I believe Italy and Austria were both interested.

>>96824513
Well, try not to crash out. I'm not going to argue the issue further. The feedback has been given and a discussion took place. It's in 2eanon's hands now.
This material now is presented in this way because we still can't put a PDF up. It would have been one post otherwise. Just because you aren't interested in reading anything longer than a paragraph doesn't mean there aren't other that might offer constructive critique, and those that want some context to the contributions.

>>96824532
Probably the dutch? It's not like the islands are far from their area of influence.

>>96824447
Thank you anon. May destiny smile on you.

>>96824510
>I imagine with the British taking over the canal faster there'd also be an earlier push to internationalize its use by the other powers.
I imagine that as well. If we add some sort of international conference a year or two after the canal is built, then I don't think there would be an issue, at least until the french go to war against Italy and they can block most of their ships in the Mediterranean (Crete does make for a great base of operations for the french fleet to blockade the italians from going near the canal).

Also, don't worry about it, trying to fit together each of our vision of the setting is bound to be difficult. I don't take any issue, especially since you clearly care about the event and have done your research.

>>96824599
>It's in 2eanon's hands now.
Those are the hands being drained. I had specifically asked to not do this shit. Atlan anon has contributed more than anyone on getting the game to a playable state, now he's getting piled on and compared to haitischizo for what will essentially be a reskin of a few units for a campaign I am no longer sure I want to invest this much time in given how shitty all of a sudden everyone allows themselves to be.
Calling his profiles busted is pretty rich coming from the guy who insisted on making everything German the best possible. I was half dreading this shit from others, but honestly, not from you.
I need a long walk. Sadly there's no snowstorm around. (If you don't get this joke you are just not old or Canadian or boring enough).

>>96824513
Atlan Anon, please, collect yourself.
>Apart from a mention in the OG lore doc which was never taken as a directing document until you suddenly started insisting on it, Germany was not mentioned in any of the discussions of factions to be included in waves which had been made before.
I, famously not Kaiser Anon, repeatedly floated the idea that Germany would have to be inevitably included at some point. People made the Landsknecht merc. Kaiser did use it as an opportunity to make a pet project, sure, but he did it to develop something that, realistically, we would have to cover anyway.
You're unironically arguing that the German Empire has about as much, if not less reasons to be present in a game about 19th century colonial race to the bottom than Denmark. Nothing good lies at the end of this path.
>presenting a 3 page documents to prove that what you are doing is realistic is not going to make the end result better.
As far as I'm concerned, it will, in every conceivable way. Why not try and do something similar?
1/2

>>96824513
>We use to seek synchronicity, now its all this fucking bullshit.
Your proposal, at least the way you've originally pitched it was bound to cause friction. My main grievances are well known and we seem to have reached an agreement on them. I'm willing to work out a solution. People have raised legitimate concerns, but as it is, I feel they are handwaveable enough. If nothing else than not to alienate one of our own.
Denmark alone, I feel, would not cut it. Maybe Denmark is the tip of the spear, but they'd need Sweden and Norway backing them. Some kind of loose Kalmar Union, forming as a mutual military-economic alliance as a reaction to Denmark being predated on by Britain and Germany, making a desperate play for Doggerland - it is not a horrible idea, by any means. Sure, the other powers would be concerned about this development, but things were already looking grim. Who's next on the chopping block? Why not just go for it at this point? You put some meat on these bones and we might have something cool here, at least for any Doggerland purposes.
2/2

>>96820490
Straight in that context means honest/frank/unpretentious. It's an understandable thing to misunderstand, but despite his reply to you, he clearly understood what i meant, as evidenced by his reply to me. I was referring specifically to how in his first reply to me he said "You've clearly done the research" and "I invite [you] to prove otherwise", and then in that post said "You've done the bare minimum of spending an hour on wikipedia" and "you need not be so defensive". However, it was also and independently ironic, as he was and is still not being straight, but had just shown clearly that fact. It's an accusation of underhandedness, not a personal attack. He even admitted that the comparisons to Haitischizo were asinine, but then goes on in is reply to me to claim he was being straight up the whole time. I'm not the one being unfair here.
>by 4chan standards
Another way of saying by no standards.
>insults
What insults? I can be frank, rude, and blithe, but i actively try not to be insulting. If you tell me what insult i made i'll apologize for it.
>His willingness to adress them has been mixed
What have i skipped over addressing? I've at least offered some explanation, reasoning, or justification for every point brought up. Do i actually have to explain in detail why Germany getting an Eiffel Tower on Doggerland is ridiculous, and how it doesn't make it any less of a white elephant?
>>96821430
>It's not personal with the fellow
Frankly, i don't believe you. This thread reminds me far too much of 96528583.
>>96824882
Kek. Definitely don't believe you now.

If i was being reasonable, "prove to me my opinion is wrong" would have been where i stopped, but i was patient against reason. I don't care how many flowers or fouls he packs with each post, if he is always making an exception of himself, he is being uncivil.
If he wants to get off his damn high horse and talk with me like a human being, if he wants to actually read and respond to my posts, instead of ghosts, then we would get somewhere. Well, no we wouldn't, it would have all ended much sooner and without a bitter taste.
>Perhaps that's too nebulous of a justification
Rather, i find it a very good one. I think it can be remedied enough without ditching the whole thing, but maybe not: My remedy is also my contingency.

>I'll make one last suggestion regarding them, though you could consider it parallel, even an alternative, as it could stand alone, and that's adding Hans Bjelke as a Character. In faction, he would serve as their primary Agarthan representation, and as less 'intense' militaristic list. Even if everything regarding Denmark is rejected in the end, i think he could stay. He would be very good for Denmark's feel as a faction, but he wouldn't need them. He could a rule where he has to go to certain rune stones left by saknussemm.

>>96824804
Here's the anatomy of the situation.
We have a proposal for material. Some amongst us express concern over the material, some amongst us more voraciously than others. We engage in discussion with the proponent where explanations request are not provided and miscommunication takes place to the point where the conversation devolves into shit-flinging because the concerns aren't addressed. I recuse myself having said my peace, and attempt to move onto another topic.
Then we are told that the proponent is getting piled on and there might be a potential halt to a planned campaign.
As you wish. You're the captain of the ship. If you'd like to shelve Doggerland over a spicier-than-normal thread, by all means. I won't argue it. If you'd like, strike my material. The Germans/Austrians, the novel, the audiodrama, the wiki, now Japan, strike all of it if you would like. I don't attach emotional significance to posting in this thread or contributing to this project. I've enjoyed playing games with you and meeting the folks here. But any more than that sort of thing isn't particularly healthy.

When I came and presented my German material before the shutdown, there seemed to be a positive reaction, largely owing to the fact that the groundwork and research had been done thoroughly and the material fit the setting. It would seem that either good research makes a better proposal, or, 'presenting three page documents to prove what you are doing is realistic doesn't make the result better'. The two principles cannot be true simultaneously.

Had I been asked to justify the German stats and rules that I presented, I would have, and I'm fairly sure that somewhere in those archived threads, I did.

I'd express now an interest to drop from the Doggerland campaign, if that might solve the problem. It wasn't my intent to stir the pot. You have five players. Now you have four, an even number, and better suited to the map layout you demonstrated to us last time we spoke.

>>96821430
The "it" in, "it does not fucking matter", refers to what happens after the vanishing point of the timeline, that being the end of the setting. I'm not saying the setting doesn't matter, i'm saying what you are asking me to explain is something outside the scope of the setting.
>>96821747
>he burden has always been on them to demonstrate that the material they want will not just effectively integrate into the already accepted material,
There is also an element of goodwill and grace. I am keenly aware of that i am a recipient of that element; you should know that you are too.
>that the material presented also helps develop the complete picture of the setting
U-Boats diminish Rakkad significantly. ICEs are a betrayal of the period and aesthetics of the setting, and neither the consequences of their existence, nor more appropriate alternatives were given a single thought. Actually, i was dismissed off hand, called autistic for caring, and willfully misinterpreted so that Diesel engine meant the fuel and not Internal Combustion. Germans on the 3rd through Paris is a betrayal of Dousicily, and no consideration was given to why or what they are doing they're.
>MapAnon and his tourist guide works well because the Swedish author
MapAnon can speak for himself. Also, he was a Norwegian, and what the Bergen Correspondent is in reference to.
The faction is not Scandinavia, it is Denmark. Norway and Sweden are not officially involved, and i don't imagine public sentiment is overwhelmingly in favor of Denmark, just that there is a sentiment strong enough to matter. Doggerland is what would convince the others, particularly Sweden, into confederating. What convinces them could be something discovered on Doggerland, rather than the outcome of the campaign. They are still, on the whole, bystanders.
Were they already all in bed together, the Bergen Correspondent would not make sense.

I thought gambling on the campaign would be fun, and prevent us from arguing over it. My intention wasn't to swindle you guys, and i'm sorry if it came of that way. If you guys want to call off the bet and leave the outcome of Doggerland undetermined, I'm fine with that. In fact, if the bet has become a point of contention, i'll call it off myself. Regardless of the bet, i don’t think anybody should point to the outcome of the campaign as ultimate authority until the end of time. Also, i'd like to mention that i offered a handicap for the campaign here 96817246.

>>96824906
>>96825045
I'm not sure if you're thinking that I'm multiple people, or that multiple people are me from different IP's but I think Tsardom anon or someone else is here and agreeing with me.

This is Kaiseranon.

>>96824274
I really like what you've done here. I can't speak as to the historicity of it but the writing is evocative.

I will say that unit-wise I think a cruiser might be way too large for the game scale outside of special scenarios. Are the Lieutenant and the Colonel both heros? That might be easier to simplify down to just one.

>>96825128
Unlike you, I can actually tell who's who. My posts were directed at the correct people, as anyone could tell by their content. You aren't fooling anyone with a screenshot.
>>96825045
>willfully misinterpreted so that Diesel engine meant the fuel and not Internal Combustion
That didn't happen, i was just ignored after clarifying.
>called autistic for caring
That did happen, but it was when he spectated a game. Forget it, i guess.
>>96824964
>Had I been asked to justify the German stats and rules that I presented, I would have, and I'm fairly sure that somewhere in those archived threads, I did.
94894522

>>96825205
The principle was to write a rule 'Gyokusai', or the breaking of the jewels, and use multiple versions of officer models. The records indicate that, aside from the large inter-service rivalry between the IJA and IJN, you have an ongoing legacy of lower officers, colonels, lieutenants, etc. showing extreme bravery, taking unilateral action outside the chain of command, etc.
That was the thought but I'm struggling to word it properly, or figure out how something like that would work.

>>96824906
>Straight in that context means honest/frank/unpretentious. It's an understandable thing to misunderstand, but despite his reply to you, he clearly understood what i meant, as evidenced by his reply to me.
Yeah, I seem to have misunderstood you. I'm sorry. Remember, I'm ESL.
>What have i skipped over addressing?
I feel you were not replying to the criticism in good faith, especially by the end of it.
Some of your suggestions, like the Schleswig plebiscite, were genuinely quite out there, yet you got snarky at well-warranted pushback.
German allies will jeopardize their alliance by helping the underdog Denmark. I could maybe see Italy engage in *very* low profile support, as they stand to lose the most, but why not support Britain at this point? They're more likely to win.
The prospect of another power (with far more means to do it) seizing Doggerland and improving the entrance is somehow this setting breaking thing, apparently.
But this is all largely water under the bridge at this point. It's irrelevant. I don't care. I think those points are all generally handwaveable, like I said. I'm just pointing out how you've contributed to this outcome. If Denmark & friends are not going to have colonies, if they are mainly there for the Doggerland campaign, I really don't see much issue at this point. I suggest others show leniency as well.
And if they win Doggerland I'm willing to treat this as canon. And let them have more presence in the game. No, seriously, how about we do that? Whoever wins the campaign, wins in the lore. Let cannons define canon.
>>96824906
>Kek. Definitely don't believe you now.
Do you genuinely think only 1 (one) person wanted Germany in the game? Be reasonable.

>>96825214
The intention was not to inspire a schizophrenic reaction in you. Come into the vile application at like 7 PM EST. I'm out in a couple of hours. We'll have a chat and sort this out and we don't need to have the entire thread hit the bump limit from autistic callouts.

Also why would I argue for a compromise if I am Kaiser Anon, he's clearly far less interested in that. Does he have DID? Am I just a figment of Kaiser Anon's shattered mind? Deepest lore.

my two cents is that i dont think anyone who frequents these threads would use inspect element shenanigans to deceive anybody else who frequents these threads

>>96825222
>and use multiple versions of officer models
I like the idea conceptually; it sets it apart from the different officer types a lot of other factions have. What I'd do is have one hero profile and several traits to represent each level. So taking the colonel trait gives you higher leadership but a lower rank might give you a higher evasion. And since it'd be a hero unit you can buff up even higher ranks.

Gentlemen, please. Let's be reasonable here.

>>96825338
100 seconds in paint

>>96825382
Nice.

>>96825229
>>96825266
Okay, my paranoia got the better of me, and i'm sorry for that. It seems i also need a walk.
Tzardomanon, you were not replying to me, that's why i freaked, but i should have read your post through and assumed the better.
Kaiseranon, I can't talk at that time today, but i'm fine to talk about it at some point. Maybe tomorrow.

>>96825430
Understandable. How about that time (7-8 EST) on Friday? I would like to put this to bed, decide on the Danes, and then get on towards Japs.

I feel I *do* disagree with both Kaiser and Atlan Anon on a crucial point though - my line was since the start that, realistically, there would have to be some kind of confederation by the game start. The faction already has rules to represent the other nations, but I don't see the harm to expanding it - the faction only stands to benefit from more ideas. If the Scandis pool their resources I can see them building themselves up at a reasonable pace. I'm far more willing to handwave any potential fallout from Scandinavian nations confederating (but not fully uniting, because I don't think that was ever on the table) and presenting a united front in foreign affairs, than Denmark alone just punching so above their weight. Denmark had good relations with the Tsardom due to the dynastic ties, if they manage to tardwrangle Sweden from being autistic about Finland they'd have that front covered at least. But this is just a soft suggestion, not a deal breaker.

What are we arguing about and which side should I take to be a contrarian?

>>96825660
You should make a pitch for Peru-Bolivian Confederation/Neo-Inca Empire.

>>96825699
Have there been previous pitches?
I ask because I don't want to step on any toes.

How does Bodyguard work? I cant seem to find it in the 2e book.

>>96825781
No, and that was a joke. I will have to hunt you down IRL if you actually do it.

>>96825814
I'm considering it and currently cracking open 19th century South American history.
Thinking about a faction less interested in colonialism, and more of a faction of irregulars and ranchers. Maybe it'll be an alliance of Mexico and Argentina? A general South American alliance?

>>96825828
Not with the way the U.S. is written.
If you want to make units, Leaders, Characters for the U.S. book representing the PACT signatories that could actually be good.

>>96825884
Well, by "alliance" I don't mean geopolitical. I guess it could be a US subfaction.

>>96824653
The French would explicitly NOT go to war with Italy, by that point it would start WW1. The whole point of signing the Triple Alliance was to guard that flank. Ethiopian would have French support, and "crusader" volunteers operating from French Obock.

>>96825789
>Bodyguard: If this model is within 2 of a Leader, Character or Specialist model, you may assign any successful Attacks targeting that model to this Grímsvötn Guard instead. Roll Armour as usual.

It's one of those classic single-unit rules that became general like semi and fully expendable. Some of them have yet to fully make the transition over and so exist in a state of limbo.

>>96825828
>Thinking about a faction less interested in colonialism, and more of a faction of irregulars and ranchers
Do you mean colonists in Agartha or groups on the surface? We don't typically do games on the surface so if it's the latter then I don't think that they'd show up anywhere.

>>96826233
No.
Here is my basic idea:
>South American private company, let's call it 'La Plata'
>ambitions to exploit Agartha for temporary profit, oil derricks or ranching, or just general looting
>brings some South American troops, but mostly thugs and armed civilians
>as South America is a minor power, this plays like a minor power
>fun ideas: Ground Sloths, Giant Penguins (both as a reference to Antarctica, and Lovecraft), and maybe some riverboat battleship fun

>>96826274
And you can alter this pitch if you want. It could easily just be a US subfaction or something.

>>96826329
we've already got an oil drilling character with the Neptunium baron and South American gold looters with the Sao Paulo Golden Syndicate. leaning into a ranching idea would be a better focus I think. There's mention of a Triassic ranch in the US book but the only saur units are military ones, so having a few civilian ones dedicated to underground ranching would make sense. They could be US faction units or merc ones. Saur Gauchos I guess?
>Giant Penguins (both as a reference to Antarctica, and Lovecraft)
I'm surprised this one hasn't come up yet.

>>96825229
>Schleswig plebiscite, were genuinely quite out there, yet you got snarky at well-warranted pushback
The pushback was well warranted, and very poorly executed. My point was legitimate and answerable. He made an obvious contradiction: Is Doggerland worth more or less than Schleswig? If less, it isn't such a stretch the Danes can compete for it, but the plebiscite becomes a stretch; If more, then the Dane's participating is hard to justify, but the plebiscite becomes not such a stretch: He was trying to have it both ways.
Now that the worth of Doggerland is set within certain parameters, the plebiscite it pretty far out there. However, it can be reeled in with specifics. For example, making the Danes pay for it, and pay a gratuity 'if' it goes their way. Another way to mediate the idea would to have it only happen in the north west, or even only the north west islands.
>I could maybe see Italy engage in *very* low profile support, as they stand to lose the most, but why not support Britain at this point? They're more likely to win.
Why not? I don't have a problem with that. Britain is the only serious contender. I haven't closely been following the conversation, but maybe Dousicily dragging it's feet with Doggerland is they get out of looking the other way with Ethiopia. They wouldn't need to directly support Britain, they could just drag their feet and be annoying about it. Rather than support the Brits, oppose investment in Doggerland. Austria has less to lose, but they probably have better terms with Italy than with Germany, and would want to keep a sort of balance of power within the alliance. For that, reason, and because they are still technically Christain, i could see them politically opposing/dragging their feet with Italy's efforts in Ethiopia. I guess they can't pull that bullshit too much though, or the other will start looking at them like a ball and chain.

>>96827648
But, to answer your question, it's because Denmark isn't a threat them, and isn't peer to Germany. So, they don't have to worry about the support itself coming back to bite them, and can use the "it's good for the Economy" excuse: same goes for Austria. Hell, they might just do it because it is legitimately is good for the economy. Remember, we are talking about economic support here, and before Doggerland.
>improving the entrance
It's another Eiffel Tower, not a simple road, river, or rail. It isn't setting breaking, it technically could kinda makes sense, but has the same problem as the UK allowing Denmark to use Iceland, in that it diminishes the potency of a more important and established thing. Also, the Eiffel Tower was built out of necessity, while Dogger Tower would be a vanity project. No way in hell that thing would turn a profit in a hundred years, and as a military investment its redundant for everyone, and for everyone but Britain (and maybe France) also a liability. I'd be much more okay with another tower if it was also Eiffel doing it, but even then, it would feel cheap to me.
>>96825619
All we'd need for that mechanically, strictly speaking, is one explicitly Swedish unit, probably a Worker. I'd say max, 1 Norwegian regular unit, and 2 explicitly Swedish units with one regular and the other restricted, and a "Scandinavian" generic leader. I really like Doggerland being the catalyst for confederation, especially if it's because off some discovery there, but i'm not unwilling to give up that image.
>if they manage to tardwrangle Sweden from being autistic about Finland they'd have that front covered at least.
Maybe they get access to Agartha through the Tzardom? That would be enough for the Swedes in Sweden, i think. Would you be alright with that?

>>96827666
>Maybe they get access to Agartha through the Tzardom?
A deal with the devil, so to speak. It'd have to come back to bite them in some way, i suppose.
>>96825458
Actually, no. Even outside of the thread, i've had a stressful month or so, and have an out of town familial obligation this weakened, and i'd rather do just about anything the day before than argue with you about Denmark on discord. Additionally, i see no reason why it can't be worked out in thread, and wouldn't benefit from doing so. It should be easyer to work out in thread because it's public, recorded, and non-immediate. Non-immediate is the most important part, maybe.
But regardless of medium, i'm utterly completely fucking done with this conversation until at least next Tuesday. In the meantime, if you want to reread my recent posts on the matter, meaning this thread and the last, and give thoughtful and honest replies to their content, then you can either post them in the meantime and let me get back to you when i do, or have them prepared for later. You are the only one who wants to keep this conversation going, so now here the burden is on you to accommodate me.

>>96827666
>Maybe they get access to Agartha through the Tzardom? That would be enough for the Swedes in Sweden, i think. Would you be alright with that?
That's... quite a solution. I think it's a little too awkwardly positioned. I can only conceive of very limited scenarios, like scientific expeditions, where any troops from Scandinavia would go to the Urals, then under them.
Swedish business interests were involved in the Tsardom, most notably the Nobel family, who were very big in the oil industry. I imagine they'd be interested in Neptunium as well. But I imagine they'd just fund expeditions from Tsardom itself.

Anyway, by "not be autistic" I didn't mean some treaty renouncing claims or something, I just meant not actively antagonizing the Tsardom, between Britain and Germany they'd have their hands full.
I feel this runs in similar problem as with Iceland, where realistically speaking, they have to make a deal with very little leverage, this time for even less benefit. The only good reason I can see is that it justifies fielding them on the 4th Layer.
Honestly, they work as is. They'd cut their teeth on expeditions though Paris, then, when they feel ready, try at Doggerland. That's realistically the most we can squeeze out of them.
The future (or current) Kalmar Union can also have their hyperdiver space program. If you really think about it, just sending dudes into a stream of PAIN is the poor man's option and they are well positioned towards the pole. My only real concern there was it being too early, as I'd prefer any Hyperborean exploration to be a kind of last frontier everyone would get to explore more or less simultaneously, and making it some specific Denmark thing.

>>96827916
>The future (or current) Kalmar Union
As in, whether they form now or later, in the future they can have it.

So, me and a buddy tried this out. I was playing the morlocks (red) and he was playing the Lemurians (Blue)

I, uh, decided to flood the world. Had tiderunner tallfins, all the shamans and apprentices spending all their AP every round to fill everything with water, while my Hardscale Morelocks and grunts would keep up the frontline. With tridents and staves, I could poke things from out of the water.

He couldn't really kill anything, with all the evasion boosts on the tallfins (Spy, Evasion) and the armor on the hardscales, since all my guys were in water they could evade pretty much everything. Once I took care of his Officer and War Shaman, his dread was boosted to the point where most of his units were broken, especially his infested (hence the masses of flesh and such)

We ended up conceding at the start of round 3, because it was likely I would just spread through his territory and take it all over.

My buddy's comments:
>Lemurian tiger is not statted in the book
>He also thinks the book should
>Fuck tridents.

I do agree with the tridents, though. My tallfins had like Evasion 9, 6 Armor in body and limb, and (with morelock support) could deal Grievous wounds every round.

>>96828238
>he also thinks the lemurian book should explain prophecies in the handbook itself

Sorry, that got cut off.

>>96828238
It was good fun. I fucked up terribly though, on my list and my tactics (if you could even call them that.) I'm not giving up on Lemuria but I have a ways to go learning it.

I NEED MORE PROPHECIES.

>>96828238
>Evasion 9
>Amphibious
Dios Mio

>>96828289
>I'm not giving up on Lemuria but I have a ways to go learning it.
I wouldn't say anyone has ever come close to mastering it in all of the tests. It's easily the most complicated and gimmicky faction out there. I recommend an artillery list with the pale dweller, camels, and rocket tartaradon next. For the laughs.
>I NEED MORE PROPHECIES.
If you have any ideas please lay them out. There's a lot of low prophecies compared to the high ones, so a few more there couldn't hurt. IIRC the philosophy is that high prophecies rely on player predictions and low rely on dice rolls.

>>96828371
My next list was going to be Chariot King with Rockbreaker drive bys.

I'll try to wrack my brain for ideas. Until then I'm gonna sleep.

>>96828431
also a classy list.

>>96809680

I'll be able to play today evening and this weekend with this >>96814371 . Would there be any issue?

>>96828525
don't ask me, I just work here.
More seriously, I'm really not the guy to ask in this case since I don't do discord games.

Did someone change the settings in the wiki?

Apparently the wiki is closed and I can no longer make edits to it. Not sure why, here it says that the wiki is inactive for a long time, which is not true, there have been multiple edits in october alone. Anyone knows what happened?

Having slept on it, I think I'll give way to AtlanAnon. I don't think perpetuating the fruitless hostility that began this debacle is useful. With my withdrawal from Doggerland, I take Tsardom anon's position of 'against, but neutral'.
I've decided to withdraw from this project entirely. I would ask 2e, as manager of the Mediafire, to please strike my material from the game, that is to say the German/Austrian army books, and the written material above for the Empire of Japan. I don't feel that me contributing further will help the project. I would also like to hand off the Wiki's administration off to someone else. I have locked it to transition that role over to perhaps 2e or Mapanon, whomever wishes to do so should come forward this weekend. Further threads, I would ask, be baked without the link to my audio-drama, and I've gone ahead and begun the process of winding down the channel.

I hope that this project succeeds. If someone else would put forward different ideas for the material I provided, that might solve some of the problems. Best of luck to all of you.

>>96830186
Wait, what?

>>96830186
Mapanon here. Havig read this, I'm a bit blindsided. If there is no other choice, I will take the administration of the wiki if you want, but can we at least talk about this?

>>96830263
Certainly. It isn't a complex thing to manage. I pass the permissions onto an 'authorized user'. I think you just need to make a throwaway email and have it associated with a Miraheze acct. The wiki really manages itself but the admin permissions should go to someone who is going to stick around.

>>96830186
I can understand getting burnt out, but you've submitted everything you made semi-anonymously to a collaborative project. I don't know if that's the sort of thing you can really pull back. I can't speak for everyone else, but I have been operating on the assumption that whenever something I make gets put in, it's staying in. Even the whorelock, rage as my conscience might against it.

Would you be alright with the things staying in but remaining relatively unchanged aside from occsaional updates as the rules change? Losing 2.75 books is a big blow.

>>96830705
I can't make the fellow take down the books. If he wishes, they can stay up there forever. I'm asking him if he would be kind enough to take them down so that someone with a better understanding of what this project wants and needs can fill the space, and replace the content that I produced. It's a courtesy to the next person down the line.
I can't compel him to do it, but I would think that he an I have been cordial enough for him to grant one favor.

>>96830722
>so that someone with a better understanding of what this project wants and needs can fill the space, and replace the content that I produced
I just don't quite understand this part. The books up there are good and match as well with the setting as anything else to my eyes.
I also don't really see anyone redoing all of the faction work at any point, and especially not with the same commitment.

This is somewhat hard to articulate, I apologize if I am not wording it correctly. I like your books.

>>96831041
I am just as confused. When I submitted my material, any material, I tended to do the lore/background first so that we could pull the veil back on believeability, and so that when more concrete information, Army Lists, Abilities, Faction Traits, was presented, the entire thing was in context. People seemed to appreciate this method of doing things. People stated that this aided their understanding of the material. So that was the method. Now, after this debacle, I've have been told by the gatekeeper of information, and the man responsible for determining what does and does not qualify as acceptable content, that the approach that I use is neither preferable, nor useful.
When I say I don't understand what this project wants, I mean I don't understand what 2E and AtlanAnon want, because they have determined the course of the development of this project. Such is their right, they kept the fire burning. I don't contest that. But the sudden change in methodology is something I cannot understand, and I am attempting to end the debacle here and now by withdrawing my material, in the hope that someone can fill the gap. Whomever you are, perhaps Tsardom anon, I appreciate the sentiment, but to get material through, it has become clear that contributors need not write for the thread, but for 2E/Atlan. And that's a hard pill to swallow.

>>96831120
Tsardom anon here. I suggest you actually talk it out with 2e, as his later comment seems like the most immediate issue here. Preferrably in the Place That Should Not Be Named, because 4chan doesn't lend itself to these kinds of conversations. While your reaction is understandable, I wouldn't make such a decision based on something that was clearly said by him in the heat of the moment.

>>96831120
I am the wretched craven known as the ProfileAnon. I make chart profiles and chart profile accessories.

From my point of view, the normal process for doing Agartha is that someone posts an idea, other people post additions, historical tidbits, and criticisms, and then that idea is developed. That's how it went with Germany where I suggested they're trying to pre-empt technical progress despite not having the science to properly do so, and that became a big thing with them. And from what I saw, that seemed to be what was happening with Denmark after the initial two merc units. Atlan anon does have a habit of making units based on lore that exists mainly in his mind, like with the various different Titanium mystics, but people were discussing their motivations and plans and how industrialized they were and it all seemed alright.

With Denmark I have been fairly open, I think. It's not just 2e and Atlan who are working on it. I said that I liked the idea of them trying to create a confederation and having other scandi units, I put forward the hyperborean space program idea, got criticism, and was going to post revisions until things exploded. (It hardly matters at this point but I was going to change it from a whole program to a single expedition with a character unit for the one man who made it to the firmament, probably Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld since he went to Greenland in 1883. That way it's more of a thematic foreshadowing one-off instead of a space race)

The normal process for Agartha is hardly the only one though, seeing as we got Taiping largely complete and they're cool. Denmark coming out like it is does not repudiate your way of doing things, it just necessitates more discussion than something like your Japan proposal which is out of the oven thought-through.

This post is more edited than normal and I still feel it's a disjointed mess. I'll finish by saying that I really do not think removing your books is good for Agartha or your wishes

>>96831754
when I say I'll finish I actually mean that I'll write a little more, but that's probably obvious after me being here for so long.

I do not believe that Germany is going to come back if your book is taken out. I have thought about doing Haiti lore a few times, but it never felt right since it was someone else's thing and I didn't want to risk either them coming back or screwing up the cool stuff that was there, which there was despite all the nonsense with that one. Germany is larger and better developed than Haiti, but I don't think anyone else here will ever be as invested as you are in it, or that any newcomer will be able to match what you have done with it. I know for a fact that I'm not going to try and do anything with it or Austria if they were to vanish. Clearing the way for someone else doesn't encourage development in this case, it just leaves a hole in our tiny black hearts.

>>96831781
It's good to hear from you. I appreciate the thought, but people roll in and out of this thread fairly frequently. Just above us, two new people tried out the game, and because we were distracted by the Danish Debacle, the rare event of growing the game wasn't given the attention that it deserves. A tragedy, surely.
As I've said, I have no interest in arguing the matter with Atlan. Let him prevail and have what he wants. It isn't worth having everyone have a meltdown. I have three pages of notes that I had ready when I offered to talk to him off the thread, and we could have gone over that in 15 minutes and been done and have this entire thing done, but the fellow changed his mind at the last minute, and provided a rather exasperating response. So be it.
The fellow is going to get his material through. That's fine.
I have lost interest in contributing and have my work be part of this project. The year or so of work that amounted to the novel and my contributions was time that I willingly wasted. I don't blame anyone but myself, but I would like to withdraw on my terms. I think the only thing left outstanding is for 2e to make the adjustments to the mediafire I requested, and for MapAnon to provide me his Wiki username so I can pass administrative privileges to him.

>>96827916
>meant not actively antagonizing the Tsardom, between Britain and Germany they'd have their hands full.
Ah, yeah then that's easy enough to explain. I think Sweden and Denmark would naturally temper each other.
If we do a hyperdiver, I think it should go to Whalurs. It could be a riff of the Muic Diver. I think Bjelke should be the source of strangeness for the faction. It ties it to Iceland and Agartha further, and it’s something that has a basis in the current lore.
>>96831754
>single expedition with a character unit for the one man who made it to the firmament, probably Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld since he went to Greenland in 1883. That way it's more of a thematic foreshadowing one-off
I'd be cool with that. I was actually thinking about how to implement it, and another idea would be to tie it to Whalurs, seeing as the UR-CA travels the PAIN waterfall, it makes sense they would see that and try to do something similar. They are also already stated to be the only ones active in and around Greenland, which isn't represented in their book. It would also be an Above version of the Muic Diver, in the sense that they are also trying to reach a sacred place, but they're going up instead of down.
>>96828525
Sorry it's short notice, but i could play this evening. I'd be clear 5:45 Eastern or later, but before ~8:30. I'd use a modified version of the list i posted earlier, that being this

-Leader: 29
GS Commander (17) Bandeirante (3) Horse (6) Webley (2) Sabre (1) Ration (1)
-Characters: 25
Neptunium Baron (25)
-Followers: 45
5[ Hired Hand (1) Shovel ] {5}
4[ Kentuckian Rebel (7) Gras (2) Bayonet (1) ] {40}

>>96832900
Unless something last hour comes up, I can. I would bring the list in >>96814371

Clearly, the idea of running an online campaign here was just dumb and stupid and the dozens of hours I put into that in the last few weeks have all been for nothing. Thank you for clearing that out, I won't pursue the matter anymore. I won't pursue any matter in fact, since this has clearly run its course and I don't believe there's anything left for me to get from these threads. I set out to make a game and its done. Enjoy it for what it is, take the books and make a 2.5 edition if you want, refine everything to the degree of alt-history autism you wish to impose on others if that's the way you want to go, whatever. I am fucking tired of being asked to be corrector for a class I didn't fucking take (and the credits are meaningless) and which the students keep updating the curriculum every 6 months without telling me.
Thanks to everyone who contributed their time. It ended on a frustrating note, but it is still something I'll look back on fondly in the future.
2e anon out.

Man this is such a shitshow. As far as I'm concerned the argument was almost done.
Atlan Anon, I don't know your circumstances, but did you absolutely have to walk away from that offer? Did you not yourself want him to "talk to you, and not ghosts"?
2e anon, was alienating one of the thread's greatest contributors with your ill-conceived remarks worth it?
Kaiser, I can't blame you, but you know damn well ripping out your work wholesale will likely kill the project.
Kaiser's crashout, if undesirable, is easy to understand. I don't really get this image 2e anon seems to have of him and me (?) as these unreasonable bullies. The last time I remember Denmark being brought up, it was at most proposed to be a micro faction purely for Doggerland. I remember giving a somewhat unenthusiastic "why tho?", Atlan Anon made the NSRs and I considered the matter settled.
This new Denmark version was sprung on everyone after you two just decided it between yourselves. It was, as originally presented, something way bigger than a "small faction just for Doggerland" had to be, demanding unwelcome alterations/additions to Britain's lore, at the very least. My concerns were glibly dismissed as empty hyperboles, as if I was some kind of retard for even bringing it up, *I* was told that I was asking too much and hit with "it all makes sense in my head", at which point I considered the argument not worth continuing. We've come to an understanding since then, but it's not a good look, no matter how you cut it. I'm sure it was not some malicious plot on your part and that everyone involved had the best intentions. But there was obvious favoritism at play here and unwarranted willingness to disregard any opposition to, let's face it, a rather bold proposal. I imagine this had, at least in part, contributed to Kaiser's thoughts on the matter.

I'm so god damn confused.

Did me and Kaiser both overreact? If this was truly always meant to be this small Doggerland-centric thing, yes. But maybe if you were actually willing to deal with the inevitable pushback from the start, rather than after Kaiser went into autism overdrive on Atlan Anon, everyone had their feelings hurt and rational discussion became impossible, it would've been settled last thread.
But whatever their disagreements, it was not Atlan Anon who, barring some criticism, completely devalued Kaiser's work to his face and claimed that it was all some superfluous flight of fancy. No, 2e anon, this is on you. Nobody forced you to get mad on Atlan Anon's behalf and demean Kaiser like that. And from what I know of you, I doubt you meant what you said. Why wouldn't he want to quit at that point? This is, as I see it, not about Denmark anymore, but about (self-) respect.
I don't know what kind of other grievances have accumulated between the three of you during games or other discussions, but I doubt they are worth destroying the project over. Talk it out. Make amends where necessary. For my part I am sorry I put 2e anon on the spot the first time the issue was broached. It was not fair to you.

Can we all just talk about this? We clearly all care about this project, otherwise we wouldn't have lasted two years and +90 threads, we at least have all that in common. We have written more lore and rules than some published games, and we clearly were going in the right path until now. It would be a massive waste to see it go down in flames like this.

Please, let us cool down for a moment and think about this.

If nothing else, we have come far. Probably further than any other project on this board ever has or ever will. That has to count for something.

Unironically tho, if 2e walks, the thread is dead. I played like 6 games, I ain't clutching this.

>>96833812
If we can get the wiki unfucked I'll try to get more stuff on there. That's about all I can do other than posting models every once in a while though.

>>96833282
I don't know who you are, but this is the first sound examination of events I've read. I quit smoking cigarettes (used to be a pack a day) about two days ago, and I hadn't thought it would impact my work here or elsewhere until my wife brought it up. Perhaps my more extreme reactions were not necessarily warranted. I don't want my nicotine cravings to kill an entire game.
Although I don't necessarily agree with you that extracting my work from the game will kill it. This thread chugged along just fine before my contributions.

2E, you're the face of this madness. You kept it from devolving into chaos. Don't let my near brain-hemorrhage diatribe kill this.

AtlanAnon, I am not a duplicitous Hydra made of Pickelhaubes. I used language that was unnecessary, but I have notes to work from, if you'll listen. Won't you help me?

>>96833074
I remember the GM wanted Army Lists this weekend. Here we go:

Oberleutnant - 8 Silver
Born to Lead - 3 Silver
Duellist - 3 Silver
G84/88 - 6 Silver
S84 Bayonet - 1 Silver
Material - 2 Silver

Soldat - 11 Silver
G84/88 - 6 Silver
S84 Bayonet - 1 Silver
Material - 2 Silver

Soldat - 11 Silver
G84/88 - 6 Silver
S84 Bayonet - 1 Silver
Material - 2 Silver

Soldat - 11 Silver
G84/88 - 6 Silver
S84 Bayonet - 1 Silver
Material - 2 Silver

Maschinengewehr Maxim - 30 Silver

Maschinengewehr Maxim - 30 Silver

Jaeger - 13 Silver
G84/88 - 6 Silver
S84 Bayonet - 1 Silver
Material - 2 Silver
Pickaxe - 1 Silver

Jaeger - 13 Silver
G84/88 - 6 Silver
S84 Bayonet - 1 Silver
Material - 2 Silver
Pickaxe - 1 Silver

>>96833846
>I swear to God, the 7th layer will burn to ash unless I get a God damn cigarette -Kaiseranon, probably

>>96833846
I realize it makes me look weak to walk back my statements, but I didn't want to kill the thread over this.
I didn't want to kill the game over this. God as my witness, I will not let it die.

Woah what. I step away for a few months and everything explodes. What the hell's going on?

>>96834376
I've been in and out and I'm not really following it.
I have a bad habit of going tl;dr on some of these posts, though, so jot that down.

>>96830136
It says the last edit was made on 24 April 2025. So that's why.

>>96833846
Let me just preface all of this by clearing this misconception, I love everything you've released and added to the setting. It would be devalued by its removal.
My contention however is that it did not come without some adjustment and work at the release. If you remember, some anons disliked the idea of using the Eiffel tower, or giving the Germans colonies, or having a heavy mechanical focus. I backed you on every occasion, more because I wanted you to have the space to tell the story you wanted to tell, because it was cool, than because of anything else, really.
The one point that I did raise in regards to your profiles, if you remember, was that everything was the absolute best possible. You said it was justified, and sure, it is, so in the end I ended up making everything cost a lot. That's the one drawback you have, so I am sorry, but your comment on Atlan anon's "busted" units did piss me off. The profiles are good, but not better than yours by any significant margin, and you know I was going to be reviewing them anyways before the campaign started.
I probably overreacted, but by the time I had come around you walked on the campaign, and then asked to remove your material from the game. The German book didn't take too many hours to make in total, but the Austrian book did, and the campaign took at least 3 days of my last 2 weeks to redo. I can't get anything meaningfully done on this without investing 3~4 hours at a time.
I am tired. Fucking exhausted is more like it, to be honest. This was dumb of me to try and pursue this far.
I'll turn the campaign into something that's preset on the main TTS, that way everyone can run it with their friends as they wish it. This is all meaningless if it doesn't get you to have fun with your friends. If the game still manages to do that, somewhere sometimes, then it isn't dead.

>>96835069
>I'll turn the campaign into something that's preset on the main TTS, that way everyone can run it with their friends as they wish it. This is all meaningless if it doesn't get you to have fun with your friends. If the game still manages to do that, somewhere sometimes, then it isn't dead.
Will we still play sometime?

>>96835069
While it pains me to read this, I'm grateful for everything you've done and your decision to finish the campaign at least. And I'm sorry for all the ways I've probably contributed to your decision. Still, even without this debacle, the idea that you'd at some point step down should have crossed our minds if we had any intention of this project survivng. You've been overworking yourself as is.

After the initial wojak phase, this has been a thread for /tg/ to develop a game, not for one guy to do all the work while everyone shitposts about it. Assuming Kaiser does not walk away with his books, we're already in a far better spot than we could be. We still have a group of people who know the system and have some experience with the game, some more than others. I suppose that would be a good place to start: let's have a headcount, see who can still contribute and what. No use just *assuming* it's all over.
Speaking for myself, like I said, I played 6 (?) games total, wrote some units in the initial vague ruleless stage, some after 2e was codified, but my main contribution was the Tsardom faction. Assuming there would still people here to see it, I could at least finish my lore proposal and finish the units - the faction lacks the third leader I planned, generics and I could think of some additional units too. I can help with any further rules writing. Keyword "help". At the very least I am not suitable for any de facto leader position. Not just because I don't have nearly as much diligence as 2e anon, but because, living where I live, my ability to post here relies on circumstances beyond my control (I had to buy the 4chan pass with crypto just to post here for the past month), not to mention a low but very real possibility of me being forced into a skirmish wargame IRL, one where I'd be utterly expendable.

>>96835140
>Will we still play sometime?
Send me a PM (if it isn`t already done, I haven`t checked)

Posting the battle report of yesterday's game. Brits vs Golden Syndicate. Maybe I fumble the technical details of the game, as it was quite late, but I'll try.
- - -

Illegal mining prospections are becoming a growing problem in many areas of Agartha. The lack of oversight makes many unscrupulous parties to exploit precious resources from below, selling them in the black markets all around the globe. In New Wellington, an anonymous tip made local authorities believe one such prospection was taking place, deep in the barren wastes of the colony. Having to respond to the crime, but believing bringing a strong force to the middle of nowhere would be a waste, they send Liuteneant Benedict Brash to the task. A famous loose canon and somewhat of a maniac, B. Brash had been sent to New Wellington as punishment for multiple brawls during his service. His superiors, believing that sending him to the deep would be a better punishment than forced labor in the Australian coal mines, were happy to put him and his small squad of ne’er do wells to chase nuisances in the desert. Bored to death after patrolling the streets of Folly for almost a year, he took to the challenge with great zeal, gathering his team with such speed and hurry that he forgot his rifle and pistol in the city, having to take a dagger from one of his privates to not go to battle completely empty handed. Accompanying him, two strange figures accompanying him: Miss Helena Murray, daughter of a struggling prospector of Folly, she had compromised to pay for the logistics of the mission, in exchange of rights of ownership if they actually found anything of value. The second one was a strange figure, a Spaniard in a golden suit embroidered in sequins, flowers and wearing a wide hat, he presented himself as “El Maestro”, offered his services to the squad, having heard a great beast lived around the area they were going, and wishing to have its head. Believing him to be an eccentric hunter, he was let in.

>>96838054
In the middle of the desert, conspiracy brew. Two men saw how his team were preparing the prospecting tools and maps, and smiled, sharing a toast of good brandy for good business. The man only known as “the Baron” believed that this area was rich in resources, and the lackluster british forces in the area had led this region ripe for his projects. For he suspected that deep within the Broken Skull Caverns lay a possible neptunium deposit. If correct, it could make him a fortune that would make the profits from his illegal dinosaur smuggling look like regular chicken farming. Alongside him, a representative of the Golden Syndicate, who had offered his and his mercenaries’ services, was smiling contently, until one of his men came with news that a british patrol was closing in. Realizing that the british force was quite small and hastily prepared, he decided to stand and find.

From the other side of the dunes, the british forces saw the encampment of the criminals. Craving for action, Lieutenant ordered a charge against them.

And thus the stage was set.

>>96838060

>TURN 1.

The british forces moved in unison, moving side by side to push against the Kentuckian mercenaries. From their part, the Neptunian smuggler’s men were divided into two groups: while his Kentuckian mercenaries moved to meet the british troopers, his workers were quickly sent to the Broken Skull cave, to extract as much neptune as possible. The clash between the british troopers and the mercenaries resulted in an exchange of fire that costed the lives of one mercenary and one trooper. However, when the lieutenant ordered the Spaniard to charge with them, the man simply smiled and ran towards the cave, bringing out a cape and a sword. While the lieutenant wanted to shoot him for not obeying his orders, he once again remembered that he had left his fire guns at the pub. So he left the Spaniard to his fate.

Once the man in gold arrived near the cave, he bellowed a defiant cry, a primal challenge that was quickly answered by an even more primal foe. Coming out of the caverns, a herd of bullsaurs quickly charged against the interlopers who had dared attacking their territory. In particular, a magnificent specimen, bigger and bulkier than the others, locked his smile beady eyes into the figure afar. Drawn from the movement of the red cape, this provocation to the dignity of the beast was more than the monster could stomach, and alongside another bullsaur, charged at the Spaniard, while the other monsters moved toward the prospector’s workers. The men simply weren’t prepared for this strange attack, but they had to stand their ground, knowing that the consequences for disobedience to their leaders would be more dire than a mere prehistoric beast’s horn in the gut. The Spaniard, for his part, began the dangerous dance around the lizards, weaving and spinning around them while screaming provocations at them.

>>96838075
>TURN 2

North to their position, the firefight continued. A series of shots managed to damage the british formation, taking down another men, and leaving them in a numerical disadvantage. Luckily, Miss Helena Murray had brought her brother’s Webley, and with great aim, cold blood and determination, managed to tip the scales and evening out the number of combatants. Seeing the tide of battle slowly turning against his men, the Golden Syndicate Commander move alongside his men, rallying them to resist the red-coated fools who were standing in the way of an excellent paycheck. Meanwhile, the unfortunate hired hands were being trampled by the enraged bullsaurs, their equipment thrown into the sand and turn into scrap by the rampaging lizards. The Baron, seeing this, demanded some of them to move back, beginning the prospection where they were, though for now they were only left with muddy waters in their hands.

Meanwhile, one of the miners managed to sneak away from the beasts, arriving at the caverns, and began digging in the rock. A couple hits of his pickaxe proved the Baron’s suspicions right. Neptunium! Now the fight would not stop until the Baron had his neptunium, or he and all his men were dead.

All while the great bullsaur and the Spaniard continued their deadly ballet, the desert sands scattering to the sky and the circular movements of the combatants forming a ring in the dirt, occasionally splatted by the blood of the monsters. The stampede of the reptiles and their bellowing screeches were only met in ferocity and intensity by the man in gold’s “Olé!” and the shots at the other side of the dunes.

>>96838097
>TURN 3.

A change in wind quickly helped the british forces gain the upper hand. With the dust no longer on their eyes, they managed to begin making quick work of the Kentuckian forces. Seeing the fate of his men, but now aware that there truly was neptunium in the cave, the Golden Syndicate Commander moved to defend the works at the cave.

While this was going on, one of the bullsaur realized that someone had enter the caverns, where their nests were hidden from predators and the sun. Having disposed of one of this strange bipeds a moment earlier, the gore and guts from the worker still dripping warm fron his horns, he rushed back in to fight these interlopers.

>>96838108
>TURN 4.

Seeing the opportunity to deal a blow to the criminal forces, the british troops began chasing down the commander, while the remaining Kentuckian forces followed suit. However, while the raging charge of Lt. B. Brash was enough to inflict severe wounds of the commander, his reckless decision resulted in him being stabbed in the back by the single Kentuckian survivor. The fight devolved into a chaotic brawl, and while they were fighting, a chilling roar made stop and look at the charging bullsaur, rushing at them at top speed. B. Brash, however, decided to risk it and tried to continue the fight against this new threat. A futile choice in the end, as he was once again wounded by the beast, trampled under the monster’s crushing weight. Seeing this stroke of luck, yet knowing full well he was in no condition to fight this opponent, he quickly ran from the caves, only to be spotted and shot in the back by one of the troopers.

This began a last desperate attempt to dislodge the workers from the mine, while the saur tried to dislodge the workers from the nest. This resulted in a final brawl between the remaining worker and the british trooper, all while the bullsaur charged at the mammal in red. After being distracted by the bullsaur, the miner managed to kill the soldier, a lucky strike of his pickaxe landing deep within the trooper’s back.

Seeing that there were not enough men to continue fighting, and seeing as leadership had been lost, Miss Helena Murray ordered the men to escort her back to Folly, realizing the Neptunium was not worth losing her life. The last thing the survivors saw from that accursed place was a cloud of smoke, and the Spaniard continuing the duel with the dinosaurs, laughing and launching improprieties at them, as if nothing else mattered in the world, as the sand clouds began to hide even the bright colors of the man in gold.

>>96838119
>FINAL RESULT

I don’t remember the exact number, but the Golden Syndicate won handily in terms of silver, both by combat and by neptunium obtained, and also for having less dread. So victory for the Golden Syndicate.

>>96836244
Welp, I tried.
Atlanschizo, here's your last chance to triumphantly return, gloat and tell everyone how all this could've been prevented by making Austria-Hungary Orthodox.
Haitischizo could pop in too.

>>96840876
Give it some time. We've had slower days than this in the past month alone.

>>96837975
I have now.
>>96833846
Post your notes in the thread, if there is too much text use this https://pastebin.com
>>96838054
This was a fun battle report. You told the story very well.
You didn't get anything important wrong, except,
>>96838125
>Golden Syndicate won handily in terms of silver, both by combat and by neptunium obtained
You had more silver than me from combat, but i won off the Wells.

I hope we can play again sometime.
If nothing else, the game will always be there, so even if the general dies, hopefully Agartha threads never will.

Having been here since the start, I think it would be a shame for the threads to die off because of drama. I still need to read through the posts sent in this and the last few, since I haven't dipped my head in for awhile now, but perhaps if everyone involved steps back for a few days and cools off we can work something out if people feel prepared to do so. Regardless, I (britanon) will be contributing again, and we've had slow threads before so I hope we can keep this going for awhile yet. The game is in a good playable state, and most of what's needed is refining the backlog of stuff we have, plus whatever people come up with for the factions.

>>96840876
>haitischizo
I still feel bad about that, they were a big contributor to the early threads and did a lot on the artwork side of things which is one of our weak points. They did a lot of work on it too, just the issue with colonies on the mainland US was too far for people, myself included.

>>96842002
I genuinely don't understand how this hasn't been resolved yet. As far as I'm concerned, the actual argument was essentially over, everyone just said some stupid shit to each other and got mad.
Realistically, the thread has no reason to die. We have an actual game, so it's a legit general. Content-wise, even during the most active development phases, even before 2e handled most of it, the threads were dominated with discussions about lore or other ideas, with some sporadic additions to the game and batreps. So anyone who was mostly in it for the lore or writing can carry on as usual.

To whoever is trying to hack the Mediafire...
What the fuck?

>>96841928
I'm gonna reduce it down to one post, just for brevity and clarity. Take it, think about it, don't think about it, do whatever.
THE PROFILES
I don't know enough of the crunch to get a judgement. Looking back, I maintain that the profiles were flavorful and synergistic, and the smoke-cover thing that Tsardomanon mentioned was something of a concern, but i think that's a shortcoming related to the mechanics of smoke and not the faction.
ON THE LORE MATERIAL, AS I UNDERSTAND IT
We didn't see a formal writeup yet. Whether or not it exists, reading back the thread reveals to me several points. I'll start with what I find to be excellent material.
Polar 'Firmament Diving'
The Saknussem-Bjelke Connection
The Origin of Warfex Thought in the Schleswig Wars - (I don't know if that's what you meant, but I read it that way).
This is all good stuff, and it would help characterize a colonial faction that, as it initially was presented, didn't seem terribly different from the other baker's dozen.
MY CONCERNS
The reason I wanted the 'eventual'/not-within-scope-of-setting Scandinavian unification explored was not because that was the identity of the faction, but because that appeared to be the sovereign goal of Denmark. That sovereign goal would inform foreign and domestic policy that we could permutate into appropriate and believable lore.
ECONOMICS
Creating a Danish-American trade connection, whale oil, dairy products, and facilitating large Danish emigration to the United States would help us eventually realize American provisioning industrial capital to Denmark, if that was the plan.
North Sea/Arctic Circle - Oil Exploration/Exploitation. I realize you believe internal-combustion/petroleum technologies are a betrayal of the nature of the setting, and if we had set the game in 1864/1874, I would agree. 1884 is a different matter, imo, and this might be a way to get the Danish economy growing at a pace necessary to support their foreign and domestic goals.

>>96842744
HISTORY
If the NSR ideological angle must, at all costs be maintained, there are questions as to how pressure from outside, larger powers, might impact Danish policy. If the NSR's come to power and take some flexibility in their policy after taking account of the situation, then we can do a bit more. If you want a southern-Jutland plebiscite, or want to create a diplomatic mission to Germany as an attempt to reconcile and exchange technology, or a similar thing with Britain, that might help bridge the gap. I can't tell how attached you are to the ideology.
MILITARY
I do think that military professionalism is the grade at which we provide stats to factions, especially colonial factions whose units are largely of a military nature. If we take the former Warfex angle, I can see it. But insofar as the Warfex are concerned, isn't there a fear that their ideas and thoughts, as a secret society, might be exposed by former members serving in a national military? Historically, their navy was better than their army, if I'm reading my sources right.
DOMESTICALLY
Scandi countries, Denmark included have a reputation for being hyper-literate. Moving people into industrial jobs and have them partake in complex economics isn't a huge hurdle. This could be played on more, the literary angle. It's hard to think of Denmark without Hans Christian Andersen. We have something in the Byronic Battle-poet that is a literary riff. There's something there but I lack the will or skill to dig it out.
FURTHER CONTEXT
Having Denmark win the war against Sweden in 1814 and maintaining control over Norway helps a great deal.
Having Sweden intervene and get ass-blasted by the fresh Prussians in the 1st Schleswig War, only for Danish troops to Blucher the Prussians and arrive just in time would also help. Getting Sweden as weak as possible on a diplomatic/military reputation basis helps believability.

>>96842795
With the firmament diving, you could have a North-Korea style government cut-out organization for the sale of black-market Hyperborean artifacts to support the economy.
FIREARMS
If smoke-accessibility is critical, and you wanted that to be a cornerstone of the faction's fighting methods, go for the 10mm black-powder Jarmann. But there are cool things to be done with the Krag. The 'trapdoor' and swing-gate mechanism let you, according to the sources, fill an already partially loaded magazine easily. You could represent this as reduced cost reloads? Ammo feed 2 works, I suppose but there may be a better way to do this. I also agree the G84/88 is a bit pricey but we aren't here about me.
CONCLUSIONS
Realistically, have the NSR come to power in Denmark and set pan-Scandinavianism up is believeable. I think you would have trouble holding together a government for much longer than 5/10 years. If the element you're describing takes power in 1864/1865, following the disaster at Dybbol, I think interesting narratives could be composed regarding how the fiery ideologues born in the foxholes during the war have their heads cooled by geopolitical realities. As I said before, butter alone cannot build an empire. But it could help.

>>96842627
Wait, what is happening?