Thread 96963755

Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to first-decade, Gygaxian D&D, its faithful modern clones, and content created for use with them. Later editions (2e and newer) should be discussed elsewhere.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons played as intended by its creators from 1974 to 1983 — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching metaplots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. We also have two excellent beginner guides created by Anons with feedback from the thread that you can check for help:

>n00b DM's Guide
https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
>n00b Player's Handbook
https://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768

>Previous thread:
>>96952691

>Thread Question:
Do you use any non-medieval fantasy elements in your D&D campaign? Canonical examples, all present in first decade books, include Gamma World, Metamorphosis Alpha, Boot Hill (DMG), Barrier Peaks (S3), Cthulhu Mythos (D&DG/L&L), and Barsoom (3LBB).

AD&D 2e is really so much better than 1e. It has all the options of 1e, but more so the players/DM actually have REAL freedom and can make actual decisions that matter. It's pretty obvious why 95%+ of D&D players just switched over.

>>96963755 (OP)
>Do you use any non-medieval fantasy elements in your D&D campaign?
I'm using Gamma World / Mutant Future already, and I might add stuff from Traveller, as I mentioned last thread.

Not sure how to do Barsoomian stuff: I haven't read the books, only watched a movie, which I liked. Suggestions welcome.

Haven't tried Cthulhu mythos yet, but I'm curious.

Not such a fan of wild west stuff.

>>96963755 (OP)
I've been very happy to do the "you come across a crashed starship" thing in my games once in a while. It's a fun change of pace, and you can get a Talisman Timescape sort of vibe going. I ran my players through one of the NAP III adventures and now I have a chainsaw warrior running amok.

>>96963780
The major improvements are just QoL shit like better writing. I wouldn't say 2e is a huge improvement over 1e (they're still pretty similar at the end of the day).

Weird thing I noticed is that the Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft both began in 1e. I always just sort of associated them more with 2e though.

>>96963785
>Not sure how to do Barsoomian stuff: I haven't read the books, only watched a movie, which I liked. Suggestions welcome.
I haven't used it, but I've heard good things about this one:
grey-elf.com
https://www.grey-elf.com
PDF
barsoom.pdf - WARRIORS OF MARS - Grey Elf

Reminder not to feed trolls. Report and hide, stay on topic.

>>96963755 (OP)
Based,
Acks good, 2e bad,
Eat my ass if you disagree

>>96963822
There's no reason to even pick up 1e when 2e exists.

>>96963867
Interesting, I'll look it up. What's the relationship to the game by Gygax & Blume, if any?

>>96963927
I don't know what kind of bizarre troll post this is supposed to come across as, but please, explain these intrinsic and fundamental "improvements"

>>96963822
Dragonlance also started in 1e

>>96963905
The last guy who tried that was never seen again.

>>96963930
Not much except the source material.

>>96963819
>you come across a crashed starship
Do you allow them to explore inside? Find any tech that they can use? Weird monsters? Or is it just the empty hulk?

>>96963905
ACKS is pretty terrible, and really no one should ever play it.
In the last thread, someone spent several hours going through the economics system, trying to figure out how to explain that it wasn't actually broken, only to end discovering that the only way to make it work is to ignore/misread various rules.
Even just figuring that out looked like the most autistic process imaginable, going from book to book, going through long and unnecessarily complicated procedures, only to end up making a number of mistakes in the process. It's as if you asked someone to build a game system designed to murder the very concepts of entertainment and excitement. Like a game built from someone who looks at tax codes for a living and forgot how real humans have fun.

>>96964036
NTA, but I also throw in a splash of scifi from time to time. I recall doing a time travelling dungeon crawl back in 2e (kek) that included a scyscraper in modern day Tokyo filled with yakuza, and my players ended up with a few pistols and a handful of grenades. They were about as effective as a scroll or magic wand, and I never felt the need to control them.

>>96964042
ACKS is a joke.

It makes anyone who runs it a worse DM.

Didn't a guy get caught making something like 14k shill posts on discord and also trying to shill here?

>>96963905
2e as in AD&D 2e or as in ACKS II?

>>96964042
>>96964116
Good for you, no one cares though. Do you actually play any games at all?

>>96964116
Not just worse as a DM, worse as a person in general. I don't think I've ever met a single person who said they liked ACKS who wasn't either the most milquetoast non-person or a completely retarded asshat, sometimes both.
Just looking at the mass combat rules should get a normal person to say "Oh fuck, no, no, fuck that." Pages and pages of the kind of procedures that you know nobody ever really bothered to playtest because that would mean hours lost doing the least fun sets of time-wasting rolls and calculations ever conceived. Even just a basic run through would have gotten someone to say "This is kind of ridiculous, let's at least combine/cut out some of these steps so we can do more than this one playtest without wanting to shoot ourselves."

>>96963927
I'd say there's no reason to pick up 1e as long as B/X and 2e exist.

>>96964116
You still kvetching about your online boyfriend?
Acks good btw

>>96964098
Even if the pistols and grenades were super powerful you know your players will never use them. They will save them for the right time which will never come.

>>96964116
Half of last thread was just shitting on that guy.
>96964276
...and he's back.

>>96964276
Hey! It's the diaper-baby shill lolcow!

Is Fishfag even trying by this point?
It's like he's trying to will truth into existence through pure petulance by this point.

>>96964397
Trollcow, we saw all your dirty diapers in the last thread, you're not going to convince anyone with your boogeyman business anymore. Actually, I don't think anyone ever thought your fishfag forced meme was real to begin with.

>>96964416
>You're trying to force a meme
He said while trying to force a meme
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/Trollcow/

Projection really is all you have to work with isn't it?

>>96964397
You seem upset about something.

Do you really want to talk about it, Argent?

>>96964446
I'm not the guy who coined it, and even you have to admit it's a perfect name for you, since you're the dumbest troll and biggest lolcow. It also seems to make you seethe, so there's no better way to demonstrate its effectiveness.
I think every little community on this board is gonna end up giving you their own nickname eventually, depending how far your trolling activities take you.

>>96964416
You seem very focused on diapers. Methinks the coroner doth protest too much?

>>96964491
It's also based on his discord name "sacredcowkiller".

>>96964491
>I think every little community on this board is gonna end up giving you their own nickname eventually, depending how far your trolling activities take you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH08DLqKTo0

>>96964497
Let's be real here. Finding out you have a diaper fetish is one of the funniest developments in your whole trolling saga.

>>96964504
Sacred Cow Killer supports ACKS though...?

>>96964526
Who do you think you're talking to? Do you think everyone on 4chan has a diaper fetish? Or do you think everyone you talk to is Argent?

>>96964528
Fishfag is currently attempting a creative new tactic of doing the exact same thing he always does but attaching a different name to his Emmanuel Goldstein.
He thinks this is clever and going to work somehow.

>>96964508
You don't seem to understand the difference between the world and your brain.
You've been trying so hard to force your meme, while everyone else is just happy to give you their own nicknames. How many have you collected so far?
That's why you're stuck crying about the time you lost an argument about ACKS, but trying to give that name to anyone else who makes fun of you.

>>96963780
Truke! Recently finished my 10 months AD&D campaign. Lots of fun.

>>96964321
>Half of last thread was just shitting on that guy.
Considering his fetish I think he may have enjoyed himself.

Still waiting for OSRIC 3. Read somewhere (maybe here?) EOTB and Melan are somewhat involved, don't know how true that is but sure got me hopeful.

>>96964579
Don't be a fag and tell us about it!

>>96965055
As far as I'm aware Melan is planning a supplement to it about playstyle including mass combat and domain play, given AD&D and thus OSRIC offer rather bare bones for domain play and either 1:10 scaling as per Swords & Spells (basic and straightforward but not very fleshed out) or Battlesystem (not exactly well-liked). I'm not clear about EOTB's role but it could be either or both of them were consulted for rules clarifications and examples of procedural play, I don't have that clear for myself.

To the Janny currently working these threads: good job on cleaning up fairly. Your predecessor was a subhumanoid who picked sides and I respect you for being even handed.
I will stop using Janny as a slur for the next 12 hours as a mark of respect.
Alright, 8.

>>96965055

The party started as

NG Half Orc Cleric
LN Dwarf Fighter
N Elf Necromancer
NG Elf Ranger (& her pet Parrot)
N Gnome Thief
LG Human Fighter

The party was hired to investigate an undead outbreak that destroyed a hamlet. This lead them on a goose chase through dungeons across the land after a powerful dragon who got polymorphed into a simple human and who was trying to regain his form and take over the land.

By the end, the parrot, the elf necromancer and the half orc cleric were the only one to make it to the end with their OG characters.

>>96965163
That Melan FAG supplement sounds way too good and maybe it's what OSRIC needs to become an actual game rather than a rules repo. EDMT never disappoints.

>>96965236
Love how the parrot seems to have survived its master, it definitely deserved to become a PC!

Why is WoHF so fucking... comfy? I can't describe it but it feels oozing with soul

What's the best one page dungeons and what makes them good?

I don't know if this is the right thread but some anons may remember a thread or two back, when my players delved a six room dungeon and barely powered through the second encounter of it.
They decided to continue on, and scraped through the following encounter. Now all of them are at one hp and they've lost three out of the four hirelings they brought.
They succesfully wiped out the goblins - The visiting necromancer escaped in the night - but haven't made it down into the undead portion of the lair. The party's now permanently missing two hands and six dexterity between them.

>>96965488
Because it's a setting made for you to play in rather than a book for you to read and fantasize about. It has exactly what you need at the table: Nothing more, nothing less.

So it doesn't overburden you with spurious information about plot, backstory, or metaplot reasons.

>>96965574
Practically none of them are good, one page dungeons are mostly just a reddit meme.

>>96965574
Stonehell is decent

>>96964042
It's a scam, not a game.

>>96965607
Geez, you reek. What is it that I smell coming from you?

>>96965607
This. But it's also a very successful exercise at "show, don't tell". A largely lost art, particularly in modern D&D (2e and later).

If you like WohF, you should take a look at Mike's World. Very similar feel.

>>96965619
Stonehell is probably my favourite dungeons, but it's over 300 pages too long to be a one-page dungeon.

>Gygaxian
Play Be Upon Him

>TQ
I consider beholders, mind flayers, etc alien creatures from deep space and the ones direct from space will have sci-fi technology.

>>96965755
>Play Be Upon Him
Nunc et semper in ludos ludorum.

>I consider beholders, mind flayers, etc alien creatures from deep space and the ones direct from space will have sci-fi technology.
That's actually a great topic: Which monsters are alien?

What about carrion crawlers, cerebral parasites, dopplegangers, intellect devourers, mimics, otyughs, ropers, rust monsters, shambling mounds, and thought eaters? Perhaps even the bulette and the umber hulk? And probably the black puddings and some of the slimes as well might be from outer space.

>>96965681
Want to know one of the worst things about old adventures? The amount of "you need to read the DM's mind" stuff, and other forms of pure bullshit and bad design that you can find in them. Rather than "Show, don't tell", it would just be "don't communicate at all." That's the kind of bad design that lead to later D&D moving towards a "Actually communicate with the players" approach. Some designers did get a bit heavy handed with the exposition, but it definitely beats having to guess at what moon logic the adventure/DM decided to use that particular day.

It's one of those things that isn't good just because it's old.

>>96965681
>Mike's World. Very similar feel.
Seconded. It's a bit sparsely populated, though, so it benefits from using something like Wilderness Hexplore to flesh it out a bit more.

And the travelling times are a bit silly, but he just took the B2 ones, which were almost certainly a typo of some kind to begin with.

>>96965815
I would add aboleth and grell to the list

>>96965950
Agree. I was focusing only on the ones in the first MM.

>>96965815
>>96965815
I unironically like the 3.5 Lords of Madness lore for aboleths and other weird things.

>>96965866
> The amount of "you need to read the DM's mind" stuff
I hate Gygax-written adventures because he'd do that stuff all the time.

Guy never seemed to understand the basics of "fair" game design. They're not too far from rules of a "fair" mystery, which is why designers like Cook made so much better adventures. Cook even made full on mystery-style investigation adventures like The Veiled Society, so he definitely knew at least the basic rules.

To be fair, most of the early designers didn't know what they were doing, but Gygax seemed to take a real joy in putting in shit in his adventures that no one would get unless you read the adventure.

The new thread got mass false reported for spam >>9695903 by trollcow and they replaced it with this one. Just want to make anons aware of it.

>>96966001
It's hard to idolize Gygax when you actually play through the stuff he wrote. It gets even harder when you read through the adventure later.

>>96963755 (OP)
>Do you use any non-medieval fantasy elements in your D&D campaign?
Yes, my LBB game is straight planetary adventure stuff. I'm very inspired by the old Planet Algol blog, by which I mean I'm stealing his ideas shamelessly. I like it because I feel like there's more creative freedom in it than trying to stick to some kind of classic Tolkien-Gygaxian mold.

>>96966051
Just talk about 2e and laugh at the cow.

>>96966162
I intend to but want to make sure anons know what he has done.
Speeaking of which, does dark sun have sny good dungeon crawls?

>>96965595
>The party's now permanently missing two hands and six dexterity between them.
lel
That can't last.

>>96966177
Dark Sun is more about being in the wilds than dungeon crawling, but you can drop most dungeons from other settings in without much trouble, just as long as they're proper ruins.

>>96966162
>>96966177
>>96966321
Sorry, I'm afraid 2e is off-topic in this general – as you can see in the OP. There's a dedicated 2e general for you to take this to here: >>96893030

>>96964223
hey retard ever play de bellis antiquitatis?

>>96966604
NEED

>>96966604
>hey retard ever play de bellis antiquitatis?
That would require him to play games, so no.
Tell me about it though, I'm curious.

>>96966775
>>96966604
Same, share your thoughts. Seems like a simplified universal wargame ruleset which sounds like it would be my shit

>>96966555
Nah, this is the OSR general, and 2e is OSR.
If you want it to not be the OSR general, then you're gonna have to do a lot more than just just hijack the OP, you're gonna have to use a different name so people don't get confused.

>>96966808
Sorry, no, you're mistaken! 2e is not an OSR game and never has been. Nobody anywhere on the planet believes this. Try /2eg/ as above. Hope this helps!

>>96966884
You don't seem to understand the genesis of the OSR or what an OSR game is.
2e is very much an OSR game and always has been.

When do you think the OSR started?

>>96966966
We don't need to have this discussion again .as every one of your ridiculous "points" have been clearly refuted with extensive explication a dozen or a score of times. At this point you must be satisfied with being told. 2e is not an OSR game. Nobody has ever considered it an OSR game at any time. It belongs in /2eg/, its own dedicated general, so go there.

>>96966979
No, see, this discussion has happened dozens of times, and every time you get so buttblasted that you try to distract from all the points that clearly refute you.

Right from the top. When do you think the OSR started?

Or, will you just stop being a little bitch, and let people disucss OSR games like 2e in the OSR thread without trying to police them? If you don't want to be policed yourself, quit being a little bitch.

>>96965595
>6 room dungeon
>almost tpk
Probably not the right thread for it.
6 rooms is about 1/6th - 1/7th as many as it should be. Your previous description of the rooms was setting it up like a wotc 5 room dungeon. Very different mode of play that doesn't suit osr at all.

Does anyone have any advice for building a region for a new AD&D 1e game? Specifically how many miles wide/tall would you suggest? I know I can always add expand as the game goes. Currently working on linked pic with 5 mile hexes.

Think I'm gonna do a soft reset and just start writing my own shit instead of using the Wilderlands and plugging in random modules. Seems like the random shit I say off the cuff gets my players interested more than anything I pull from published material.

And what's the deal with the recent BROSR troll? I'm not too interested in that "movement", but some of the blogs are fun to read for the session reports.

>>96966966
OSR started in 2002 out of concern that WotC was dropping support for pre-WotC editions. So yeah. 2e is pre-WotC D&D. Case closed. Something the entire internet understands and is aware of.

>>96966307
>The party's now permanently missing two hands and six dexterity between them.
>That can't last.
Now now, let's not point fingers.

>>96967065
With 5-mile hexes, I like to have a 48x32 starting map (otherwise my experience is the players travel off the edge too easily), but you can get away with a quarter of the size at 24x16, I'd say. (You'll notice that the Wilderlands maps are slightly bigger than my suggestion, even.)

>Seems like the random shit I say off the cuff gets my players interested more than anything I pull from published material.
Nice! That's a cool feeling.

>And what's the deal with the recent BROSR troll?
Fishfag's latest angle is to accuse everyone with a clear grasp of what the OSR is of being "BrOSR", a term he doesn't even understand. He doesn't realize, or wants to pretend he doesn't, that it only denotes a small group of guys obsessed with one very specific way of playing AD&D. (Since you read their blogs I'm sure I don't need to explain to you about 1:1 time, patron play and all that)

>>96967135
jej

>>96967095
>Later editions (2e and newer) should be discussed elsewhere.

>>96967213
Actually, that’s entirely wrong.
Even self-proclaimed BrOSR have different ideas of what constitutes their "one true way" to play. What makes them BrOSR is just them professing there is a "one true way". While most say it’s AD&D1e, they include different specifics (like some doing that 1:1 time thing, others not), different interpretations of what’s truly “Gygaxian”, and there’s even some self-proclaimed BrOSR who play not even AD&D, not even OD&D, and not even B/X, but games like ACKS. And that’s just the self-proclaimed ones, with most BrOSR desperate to avoid being labeled as BrOSR because of how much the rest of the OSR community hates them.
The “BrOSR”, as understood everywhere on the internet, are just guys LARPing as dudebros and being dumb in the OSR and misleading people about what OSR games are, using every kind of fallacy, though primarily appeals to tradition and authority, though often completely fucking up what counts as an authority or even what is traditional. That's around where you get those ACKS playing self-proclaimed BrOSR.

>>96967336
Here's an example of one of those self identifying BROSR who uses ACKS.
https://bdubsanddragons.blogspot.com/?m=1

He's kind of the prototypical example of. BROSR. He really can be just pure cringe.
https://bdubsanddragons.blogspot.com/2021/07/jeffrogaxian-time-keeping-vs-variable.html?m=1

>>96966884
>t. mistaken retard.

>>96966979
Source: stupid ass.

>>96966321
One of the box sets has a dungeon crawl some ruins that has symbiote armor in it.

>>96964042
I'm the anon that went through the rules. Working through an example took about 5 minutes, they work as intended, and I'd say I have yet to receive any substantial criticism of them and my example, although I'm open to hearing it.
Take a look:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96925707/#q96943491
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96952691/#q96953894

>>96956766
>Except it doesn't due to the supply going negative from market increase.
Being in the city's range of trade does shift the market modifiers of the village, yes. However, the actual numbers still show that we can expect a profit of 2.54 GP, even at this suboptimal distance.
>Except... It doesn't. It has villages within trading range that would have negative supply because of market influence.
All of the locations I listed as examples (Andrastem, Sarotem, Kruantem, Mityatem and Luseatem) are not influenced by other markets, as none of them have another market in their 24 mile range of trade. Try to keep up.

>>96966775
>>96966793
ntayrt
DBA and Horde of the Things is a very abstracted wargame for large scale conflicts. The writing is british to the point of filtering, but its interesting to look at and count pips. Not my go to for domain scale conflict wargame but ymmv. Lots of good options.

>>96967065
>how big hexmap
I tend towards 10x10s of 5 mile hexes.

>>96967408
That's a pretty dumb dumbfuck.

How do you motivate yourself to actually map/stock a dungeon? I've got a concept, I've got a handful of ideas for what would be in the dungeon, but I just don't want to actually draw a map or write full on encounters.

>>96968034
Your pic makes me think of this https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7eJZfSphwRY

>>96967589
I think something like DBA/HOTT would be good for an osr wargames system, acks daw attempts it but misses the fast play element and drags on too long

>>96966321
Yup my stuffs gotten deleted again. Trollcows militantly at it i see.
Id love to run something similar to lovecrafts nameless city. That whole kinda feel would be cool in
dark sun.
>>96965962
Its just trollcow. He false reported the actual original thread, and made this ine to replace it. Ignore him.

This thread is much more comfy than the display of genuine mental illness in the previous one. Let's discuss games, shall we?

>>96967946
I know the feeling but I always go the other direction: I have an idea about themes, layout and features but always get stuck on stocking the dungeon as I worry about over/understocking treasure specifically. I really enjoy sketching dungeons or just rolling stuff up with Appendix A.

>>96968103
I played DBA at a con once and had a blast. It's a great little pocket sized wargame. I'm not sure about HoTT but I wonder if things like AD&D monsters and magic can be massaged into it.

>tq

I like scifi, gonzo etc. fantasy but I'm not always in the mood for it. As such, I try to keep my ongoing campaign grounded in a more vanilla setting. Somewhere between Conan and LotR aesthetically and technologically, with big titty sorceresses and impractically skimpy armors (which provide full AC bonus, naturally)

>>96963780
I'm really happy that WotC did those 2e books about a decade ago. Some very high quality books, like the gold standard that all other game books should aspire to. And they weren't even all that expensive, with a lot of publishers coming out with way more expensive but way more cheaper-looking books.

I think the design helps carry them a long way, because they look like they should feel. Not too overwrought and not too simplistic, almost classy.

They also did a premium OD&D set around that time, and it was just fine. Nothing about its design wowed me, though I guess it was working from rougher original materials. Can't stray too far from the original, and the original was frankly ugly.

>>96963822
>I always just sort of associated them more with 2e though.
I think that's a natural thing to do. At least in terms of FR's use as a D&D campaign setting I don't think many people did other Greenwood himself and anyone willing to wade through his Dragon articles. It wasn't until shortly before 2e that the box set came along and it was really only with 2e that it got pushed as default. Even though it came out before the Basic rules I don't think that Greyhawk ever became as close to being a default for 1e as FR was for 2e.

>>96968640
Might be because greenwood and friends could write half decent novels, so good cross promotion.

>>96968675
I haven't read any of Greenwood (or Gygax, for that matter)'s novels. I should probably do that. I've been reading Clark Ashton Smith lately for my fantasy fix.

Any recommendations?

>>96968710
Greenwood's novels suck, the only halfway decent FR novels are by R.A. Salvatore, and he's not very good either.

>>96968749
Yeah I was never interested in Salvatore's books when I was in high school. I read Dragonlance instead.

>>96968710
I haven't read Salvatore but in opposition to the anons who have expressed opinions so far a friend of mine who shows good taste, he is after all friends with me, liked the first Drizzt novels. If he would answer the telephone now, I'm sure he's out and it's not because he's imaginary and I can't even get him to answer in my imagination, I think he'd confirm that he liked the second trilogy as well but it's been a while since we've talked about any TSR novels so I can't say how much he liked them, just that he said I should.

After that it sort of tailed off for him. I think he read a lot of them even the stuff set in the time of troubles as he told me a lot about it, not like in a I've read the setting book way which he didn't own. I think he hooked another friend of ours into reading them too since she talked a bit about events. I was never a FR fan so I didn't pick up FR novels until a few years ago and the ones I have read I wouldn't recommend.

I'd say steer clear of James Ward, very dry, game mechanics trumping having an interesting plot, and Doug Niles. I don't think I've liked one fiction I've read by Niles, his game design is fine but not his fiction. The only one I can tolerate from those days is Jeff Grubb.

>>96968749
Greenwood's are okay, as far as RPG novels go.

If you want absolute, complete ass, you need to go to Gygax.

>>96968970
Gygax writes everything in such an... empty fashion.
He's not really a writer. If other writers are chefs, he's a cook.

>>96963755 (OP)
>>96965755
>>96964098
>>96963819
Another anon here. I love just adding dashes of sci-fi into my games. Two parties have had an alien travel with them for a while. My current game is much more dark fantasy/horror based, and I'm thinking of having an ooze crash into the planet like the Blob and then the party must find a way to stop it before it eats too many villagers and becomes too big to stop.

>>96968962
The first few Salvatore books are his best, yes. They're actually fairly good.

>>96968970
Greenwood's are subpar for licensed tie-in fantasy novels, in a bell curve where the average such novel is contractual-obligation filler written by a hack.

I haven't read Gygax's stuff myself, but I've heard they're lousy once or twice. I've always wondered if that was just salty Arnesonian camp people running him down, because they will loudly proclaim everything Gygax ever did is bad.

>>96968229
>I worry about over/understocking treasure specifically
You know there's guidelines for that, right? Between 4× and 10× the monster XP is a good range, and one that's quite broad and easy to stay within. Shouldn't be a source of worry at all.

If it's magic items you're worried about, you can either take the DMG values as references and try not to place the more powerful ones in the shallower levels, or even better ACKS II has "heroic" treasure tables that classify all treasure as common, uncommon, rare, very rare, and artifacts (or something to that effect), and that's pretty useful as well to calibrate the progression of magic items. And B/X has organised the magic items as "basic" and "expert", while Mentzer's Companion has higher powered magic items and the Master set has artifacts, and those bits are not the worst ones in CMI.

I personally don't use any of those and have made my own tables, but you're spoiled for choice with stuff that's already been published!

>>96966321
>>96967589
>>96968103
>>96968229
>DBA.
I haven't played yet, but I've read the rules and watched a couple videos and I'd love to try it if I ever get the chance.

I've even read the earlier Warganes Research Group rules, and I think it has lots of ideas worth stealing. It's pretty clear that Chainmail was influenced by WRG 1st edition, and WRG 6th seems great, even if it is very heavy.

A few of the ideas I've been stealing concern morale checks, with graded failure levels, and with monsters having to pass morale checks to obey orders, with average rolls representing discipline and obeying orders, low rolls reluctance to fight, and high rolls undisciplined battle frenzy. Different troop types are more or less likely to be disciplined, cautious, or overaggressive. It's made my monsters behave in more varied and unpredictable ways, and the rules are completely DM facing, so they don't add complexity I have to explain to players (until they raise armies at least) and it's made my monsters behave in more interesting, thematic, and unpredictable ways.

>>96968970
>>96969070
Greenwood is a decent worldbuilder when he isn't kneeling to WotCock. Being an old, zany, pervy wizardman probably helps. He's also a genuinely a nice lad and good storyteller, as in literally tells his stories in a fun, interesting fashion.

His writing is meh at best. Might be due t his apparent allergic reaction to editorial.

>>96969070

The Icewind Dale trilogy is set before the first trilogy. Would you say read them in publication order or chronological order? Is one of them better?

>>96967213
>>96967336
>>96967408
The BrOSR can be cringe, obnoxious, and stupid, and get a few things wrong, but at least they play games, which makes them much better than the Anon who's been spamming conspiracy theories about them all over the board just to stir drama about /osrg/.

Also, reminder that their stated goal (AD&D 1e by the book) is an excellent one, their only issues are in the execution part. Which places them a few hundred tiers in the OSR food chain above storyfaggots, D&D novel faggots, D&D readsettingbooksbutdontplayfaggots, and other kinds of 2e faggots.

>>96963755 (OP)
>Do you use any non-medieval fantasy elements in your D&D campaign?
Yes, à la Might and Magic: at medium to high levels (7+) I start to mix high adventure with high technology. But only REMNANTS à la expedition to the barrier peaks.
Activated robots cannot be fully repaired.
Power sources are sparse and have a limited lifespan, many less charges than wands for example.
The high-tech gear from the alien faction only functions in their own home dimension.
etc.

>>96969481
>t. nogame faggot larper who tries to feel superior

>>96969478
I meant "first" as in "publication order" because yeah, ID's better than the prequel trilogy.

Relevant

>>96967065
If using pre-written means you're focusing on your book or struggle to find the next readable part then yes, they'll prefer when you improvise if that means you're now focusing on them and being articulate.

These modules are "creativity aid, not creativity replacement" as Melan said once. Read one from time to time to steal cool stuffs and make it your own.

>>96968469
It is rather hilarious that those revival books had a limited print run, especially the AD&D ones. Of course the margins aren't good enough to keep printing it, but what a service it would be to keep them in circulation rather than the sad state DM's Guild/DTRPG POD is.

>>96969415 The AD&D DMG and B/X or OSE stocking rules are both readily accessible and easy to understand. You could even try the OD&D geomorphs and monster and treasure assortments to get a hang of it.

>>96969628
Of course one would do well to implement Drow, the Underdark and related ideas the way they were first presented before taking even a paragraph off a page of the deluge of splat that came after.

>>96969718
Shadow Elves are cooler than Drow. They're one of the best things to come out of all the BECMI spew IMO

>>96969443
If that's your jam you can also check Warmaster Revolution and Dragon Rampant 2nd Edition.

Does anyone know anything about mutant epoch? I heard from someone that it is kind of like gamma world, but I have not heard much or seen many reviews about it.

>>96969481
Excellent point, Anon!

>>96969736
They really are. The gazetteers are extremely uneven, but Shadow Elves might be the best one.

>>96967946
Get off the internet.
Get out the paper, pencils and dice.
Draw the owl.

>>96967095
Is Shadowdark osr?
Is knave osr?

>>96969481
Man, you BrOSR really are disgusting snakes.

>>96964262
>reason to pick up 1e as long as B/X and 2e exist.
2e is an actual dog shit dumpster fire and you are a troll for recommending it.

>>96970428
You really need to step out of your discord echo chambers and play with real people who still remember what actual fun is like, and stop injecting yourself with the dumbest ideology imaginable.
>let's play rpgs like soulless analog video games, and pretend anyone who does differently is putting on a play!

>>96964223
You don't play any games at all, actually

Picrel, DMG pg. 102. Can I deduce from this the wilderness travel day is 12 hours long/roughly from dawn til dusk? Does that period include stopping and making temporary camp to cook dinner at least, or do travelling parties mostly subsist off cold/dried/sugared/salted meals from rations? I feel like such a retard on the specifics of wilderness campaigning as I've only started doing it seriously as a DM running B/X, now looking to learn to run AD&D.

>>96970457
NAYRT. Real people who have ever had actual fun would never recommend 2e.

>>96970469
>shitpost
Gross. Dude, people are trying to have real discussions.

>>96964116
You should stop drama posting about your gay lover o algo

>>96970469
He's absolutely correct.
>>96970457
You should stop letting these psychotic delusions bleed over into real life please, and actually play games instead.
You do have a character sheet, right?

>>96969481
>>96970424
Maybe you should play games and discuss them instead of just endlessly drama posting about your Boogeymen in every single thread.
You guys do play games, and have character sheets that go with them, right?

>>96970467
I would say that with 12 hours of travel and 12 hours of rest, cooking food *must* be included since people only sleep 8-9 hours at most even when very well rested.

That said, parties may or may not still have to subsist of iron rations since regular rations only last for a week. Any long wilderness (i.e. no contact with towns) trek will likely require iron rations, even if only to supplement hunting.

(In my games I tend to assume iron rations take the form of pemmican since tinned food didn't exist im the middle ages. That implies the PCs will still most likely want to cook it)

>>96970467
A day is 16 hours because you require 8 hours of sleep.
A half day of marching is 8 hours.
A forced March is one and a half, making 12 hours.
Yes this accounts for time spent setting up and breaking down camp

This retard really just can't stop being a shitposting troll.

>>96970495
You don't actually play games, just like how you didn't actually address his question of what he was asking.

>>96970503
Let's counteract that, do you have any games to discuss? Perhaps a character sheet from the most recent game you have played to show us your progress?

>>96970428
2e is the peak of OSR.

>>96970457
I don't know who you're quoting, or why you think I'm on discord like yourself, but yes, 1e is much better than 2e.

>>96970574
Maybe, in South America

>>96970592
You dare to accuse the Swamiji Nisarj of these pleb tastes?!??

>>96970457
Please stop your discord drama posting.

>>96970623
That's actually myself, John Tarnowski, and yes I concur, 2e bad!

>>96970592
No, in the US, the land of God and Gygax.
Once you read the wilderness guide and the UAs it becomes obvious that 2e was DnD was Gygax intended after refining it.

>>96970670
>read the worst 1e books as an appetizer, they really season up the dog shit entree!
Lol bait used to be believable. You'll have to get up a lot earlier than that to fool the RPGpundit!

>>96970670
Whew lad, that's a big one.

>>96970712
If you hate Gygax's vision for DnD, the 5e thread is the other way.

Anyone who worships Gygax is poison.
Man had good ideas, but also had lots of bad ones, and was only ever a man.
OSR is not about "OLD=GOOD" but finding the good in the old.

>>96970738
>2e is gygax's TRVE DND
Even the 2e thread doesn't play 2e lol, lmao even

>>96970756
Gygax good
1e good
Odd good
BX good
ACKS good
2e bad
shrimple as

>>96970773
>shitpost

>>96970794
>Opinions...bad!!
Do you actually play?

>>96970467
>Can I deduce from this the wilderness travel day is 12 hours
No, since it doesn't say anything to that effect.

Also, it would be retarded because for a good chunk of the year there ain't 12 hours of daylight. So you can deduce that the travel day is 8 hours at the most.

>>96970424
I'm not BrOSR. You, however, are a Mongrel Banquet Club brigader.

>>96970853
In his defense, it does say half a day, which somebody who is less experienced could interpret as 12 hours.
That being said, considering that we are asleep 8 hours, leaving 16 hours away, you are correct that 8 hours is the properly deduced amount

>>96970898
>"Well I'm playing a necromancer so let me just-"
>Proceeds to jack off to climax right there at the table

>>96970880
>considering that we are asleep 8 hours, leaving 16 hours away, you are correct that 8 hours is the properly deduced amount
It's also more or less the minimum number of daylight hours in the winter in much of temperate Europe. If the full travel hours required were longer than that, there would be travel penalties in the winter or at least a requirement for torches.

Which brings me to forced marches. If you assume 8 hours of walking for the standard travel day, you can't force march in much of autumn and winter. If you assume 6 hours, then there's usually time for that if you take twilight into account even at the end of December.

I'm neutral on the issue. On the one hand I love the effects of weather, climate, and the seasons in my campaign, so 8 hours is nice. On the other hand, IIRC the Roman army marched for 6 hours in a day, so that ruling is fine too.

>>96970939
That doesn't become an issue for me because I like to keep things simple so in my world the meteorology or whatever is completely different because it's basically a flat Earth and the Sun in the sky is actually a portal to the sun gods realm and all of the seasons are basically equal in proportion and the sunlight is basically the same throughout all of the year. (I do this because I'm simply too stupid to keep track of a more complex system)

>>96969415
There are definitely plenty of resources available. I should take another crack at making a dungeon. The last one I had started with Appendix A yielded some interesting results for the first floor. It would make me a better DM to get more familiar with dungeon anatomy as it were.

>>96970773
Ayup.

>>96971288
Basiert und Arnesongepilled.

>>96970424
What games are you playing lately?

>>96971824
Basao y macrispastillao

>>96971851
Basé et Ouesely-pilulé.

>>96970773
Acks bad tho

>>96972042
Incorrect, falsehood and slander of this nature demands a public punishment. Prepare to be spanked with the DMG!

>>96972042
If you think ACKS is bad you should check out the edition I shan't name because it's off topic here. Hint: The Bowdlerized knockoff for the storygaming special education kids of Satanic Panic moms.

>>96970637
This is the Canadian Mounted Police: surrender yourself!

>>96972042
It's not just bad, it makes you less of a human and more of a shitstain.

>>96970469
>t. someone who never played 2e or anything else.

>>96970773
Everyone can tell you are shrimple in the head.

>>96970898
While I would not call that a dungeon if I plopped that somewhere near the players they would go in and poke around. OSR games have stuff happening outside of dungeons.

>>96972172
Your stupid shitposts are not a game, anon.

>>96971880
>Ouesely
Le mao

>>96972510
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with wilderness lairs looking like that. I like them a little bit more elaborate myself, but it's hardly a problem.

>>96970898
ahkshully, this follows post-OSR designs of functional dungeons that are designed to have verisimilitude to real world ruins. So, you get a tomb full of skeletons that has already been looted of valuables. Similar to most egyptian tombs found.

Made a starter city for B/X, so might as well share it here. Nothing special yet but has the bare bones such as shopkeeps and so on, and plenty of empty space for people to develop as their own thing.

And now I find out PDFs can't be posted here anymore.

>>96972663
Not every area the players go into is going to have stuff worth taking.

Island area off the coast.

Does anyone know if The Forsaken Wilderness Beyond was for the Mystara or Greyhawk Keep On The Borderlands version?

>>96973142
I am 95% sure it the Mystara version.

>>96972663
But the skeletons are undead ya dingus

>>96972663
This is a true OSR dungeon. An unfair, borderline ridiculous amount of enemies and a horrible punishing death trap with minimal reward.

Session 5 of Stonehell on the Borderlands last night. In the preceding week I ran some PbP in the discord where the Thief broke into the friendly Priest’s apt & found his secret robes, bag of loot etc.
As the Party had decided to take out the Kobold cave, I planted a map drawn on the Priest’s stationary to begin to establish the collusion between the Evil Chaos Priests & the other Cave Inhabitants.
It feels with B/X that the wheels definitely come off if the players are operating in any other time frame than the dungeon turn. They wanted to stake out the Kobold cave and wait to ambush, so do I just check for wilderness encounter every hour they wait? Every 10 minutes?
Luckily they instead decided to bait the first set of guards out of the cave mouth and force the encounter. The rats followed & the sheer number of them was enough to have one MU cast use their Sleep spell.
As one guard would have run back, the others were lying in wait.
When being ambushed do I need to award surprise on a 2 or 3/6? In this case surprise was not granted to the guards hiding behind cover, but I did roll simultaneous init so their bows did take out a hireling, causing the others to fail their ML and flee.
The PCs led a charge under fire and managed to force a surrender by the remaining guard, but tables turned when the 17 males from the common chamber came thundering up behind them. The guard used this opportunity to slip into the Chief's room. The other MU Slept the horde. Oil was splashed on the ground in front of the Chief's door, but another round of simul init meant the harem of females and the Guard were able to pass over before the torch was thrown. The Chief was behind, but only suffered 1 dmg from the flames, before he & the others quickly fell. The Party found the loot & my clue and now are scheming to use this information against the Priest. The stolen foodstuffs they recovered from the Kobold storeroom will suffice to trigger the invitation to the Castellan’s table.

>>96972663
Today, we learn from some Old School Revisionist millennial retard that modules like G1-3 Against the Giants is post-OSR.

>>96972734
Looks decent Anon, I like the abrupt shape of the shoreline. The outer wall seems a little bit hard to justify since there are basically no houses in that ward, but eh.

>PDFs can't be posted here anymore
No, we got niggulated by the hax.

>>96973482
>The outer wall seems a little bit hard to justify since there are basically no houses in that ward, but eh.

outer ward has a lot of empty foundations. Not decided it if economic decline, plague, or the town was sacked yet.

>>96973454
Do those have no treasure? I'm pretty sure they had treasure, anon.

>>96972734
I like it. The castle on the coast is cool. What are demographics like?

>>96973116
I dig it. I should do more nautical stuff. We had a riverboat encounter on the Harp River heading to Innspa where the party was ambushed by Lizardmen after halting the boat to avoid being crushed by Hill Giants who were tossing boulders in order to fish.

>>96973427
Sounds like a great session. I get what you mean with running into the edge of B/X. This would be a good reason to pull stuff that you want/need from the DMG (which is required reading:^) )B/X+DMG is a great way to play.

>>96973518
Any of those would be thematically interesting. Maybe a population of poor citizens and craftsmen attempting to rebuild after a siege.

>>96973427
>They wanted to stake out the Kobold cave and wait to ambush, so do I just check for wilderness encounter every hour they wait? Every 10 minutes?
It's been a long time since I ran Keep – does it not have any instructions about the habits of the monster groups? B/X doesn't have routines to handle this in the rulebooks, though, no.

As for suggestions on how to referee a case like this, am I remembering correctly that you've put Stonehell in the valley and moved the Caves to various different sites in the surrounding wilderness? In that case, it makes it simpler to adjudicate since you don't have to decide whether any of the other cave inhabitants might stumble on the PCs first, or distract them by their appearance. If so, I think the easiest way is to decide when the kobolds are active – say they creep out at night to attempt evil deeds. Then roll one wilderness encounter check to see if anything happens first, and if not the players are set for their ambush.

>>96973518
Oh, cool! That makes sense, and it's a nice bit of worldbuilding.

>>96973518
NTA, the size is more akin to a town rather than a city as it is on the very small size. There should be walls along the waterfront if someone went to the trouble and expense to ring it with two sets of walls. Too many gaps between buildings. There's going to be competition for street frontage and space within the town walls, so you would see buildings packed side to side. Currently, it looks like a medieval-ized American town.

>>96973560
>I like it. The castle on the coast is cool. What are demographics like?
Population of 8,000 (Housing is somewhat abstract) 90% human. Its a "Points of light" style setup so this is locally one of the bigger towns.

>>96973584
My idea is that it will become a boomtown -- points of light and recently the humanoids where defeated in battle, meaning that there a big block of land that can be explored by smaller parties and clear out, so people are arriving to make their fortune.

D&D meets deadwood.

>>96973586
That simply makes sense. One encounter check, resolve that & then timeskip to hours later when finally some Kobolds show up.
As to B2's instructions, for the Kobolds I believe there's just the chance that some are hiding in the trees. In fact it does seem to read that most of the caves are just waiting for adventurers to walk in.

I seem to have a mental block when DMing, because I'm uncertain if there is a rule I'm less likely to just handwave a ruling before thinking through what processes I'm forgetting that might already be in place.

Nothing's more fun for the PCs than exploring a hex and discovering natural resources. Alluvial gold, saffron, myrrh, even ivory. Are there resources for determining these things in hexes beyond looking at the Trade Goods list and trying to eyeball where they'd be on a map?

>>96973842
>I seem to have a mental block when DMing, because I'm uncertain if there is a rule I'm less likely to just handwave a ruling before thinking through what processes I'm forgetting that might already be in place.
I would recommend separating studying as a DM and practicing as one very clearly. There's a time for each, but ne'er the twain at the same time.

When you're playing you just HAVE to improvise based on what you have learnt before, you can't start wondering if there's any rules you're forgetting. Roll with it. Nobody is sending you to /osrg/ jail if you fuck up even if you deserve it.

Then, AFTER the session it's time for a review: Look back, see if there's any rule you've missed, or any procedure from the DMG you want to add in next time. And generally decide what you would do differently next time.

Trying to do both at the same time is a recipe for stress, enjoying the game less, and probably even performing worse than just winging it.

>>96973988
Very good advice, Dubs Anon.

How good or feature complete is mutant future? I was looking for something to add some more out there tech and enemies to a hyperborea game, and I wanted to know if it was a solid game or reference on its own.

>>96974506
>How good or feature complete is mutant future?
It's fucking amazing. MUCH better than Gamma World and Mutant Future.

>>96974506
>How good or feature complete is mutant future?
It's fucking amazing. MUCH better than Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha. Particularly when using the Mutant & Mazes rules in the Appendix.

>>96973988
Sound advice. Well stated.

So what are the best megadungeons to run (Outside of making your own of course)

>>96969443
If you need b/x compatible wargame, check my Battle aXe it's free, and excuse me for the AI cover

>>96975281
Anon, I recently tried to find one that would help me run it with minimal prep, but then I realised that it would actually be easier to design a level or two each session than read up all about a fucking megadungeon, so I'm eyeing that path...

>>96975465
Barrowmaze can be run with very little prep. But it needs something other then the dungeon nearby as it becomes a slog due to it being waves of undead.

>>96967213
>>96969630
Thanks for the kind and inspirational words, dudes. I've been really digging the Fomalhaut zines and going to think differently about how I use them and other modules going forward.

>>96975526
Oh yeah, Melan's zines are great. Lots of good material, I like the Fomalhaut content best myself.

>>96975281
>>96975485
I love Barrowmaze but it has too many undead. Diplomacy and the reaction roll are king in my games, and undead negate both.

>>96963755 (OP)
If your only deciding factor was the largest amount monsters available that require zero conversion, would you run S&W 1e or LL 1e?

>>96976087
S&W: it's not even close. Both Monstrosities and Tome of Horrors were made for S&W: over 1,200 pages of monsters between the two. Plus the base Monster Book and Tome of Horrors 4.

>>96975281
Stonehell.

>>96976087
>If your only deciding factor was the largest amount monsters available that require zero conversion
you would be a moron because there's NO reason to pick a system based on that.

>would you run S&W 1e or LL 1e
I wouldn't run S&W, full stop: It's OD&D with some random changes that don't have any rhyme or reason. Highly overrated IMHO.

Labyrinth Lord is probably the best retroclone, and criminally underrated at this point in history. Particularly LL-Advanced is much better than OSE-Advanced, and Mutant Future / Mutants and Mazes is a masterpiece.

OSE wins hands down on presentation, though.

>>96976344
>Both Monstrosities and Tome of Horrors were made for S&W
They were branded for S&W, but there's nothing mechanical in them that makes them more suitable for S&W than for any other first decade / OSR game.

>>96973957
What's the "trade goods list", what book are you talking about?

Anyway, I've never used either, but I remember that Wilderlands of High Fantasy / Wilderness Hexplore have at least one table for prospecting, and ACKS II has full procedures for it. You probably want to take a look at both if that's your thing.

So OSR is basically PbtA in a sense that it does away with simulationist bullshit and boils it down to narrative and simple rolls, right?

>>96976537
Not really? That's what dummies on reddit think, I suppose, but they've lost the plot so bad that they can't say what OSR even is anymore.
OSR is about old Gygax/Arneson D&D, a game with concrete rules that create a specific kind of play experience. The rules don't try to be "simulationist," being fairly game-like, but it is structured rather than just narrative and a few rolls.

Check our the noob guides listed up top, it has more detail.

>>96976537
You could run it that way but you'd be missing out on what this thread is about. Trust the gameplay loop and emergent storytelling coming from the game mechanics themselves and don't dilute them with subpar Critical Role/Dragonlance storyslop.

>>96976963
Forgot to add pic

>>96976963
>>96976968
I think that one of the things that really made OSR click for me is realizing that it basically switches around the types of control Player & GM have.
In modern D&D players have the most control during character gen because if it exists they can insist on using it, then the entire rest of the game is up to the GM and they're stuck on his wild ride, so it's no wonder you get them cramming all kinds of shit into elaborate backstories. It's the only chance they get to actually have an effect on the game.

OSR meanwhile gives most the control in character gen to the GM, it's where you establish what the world is and who reasonably fits in it, you give stringent guidelines on who is going to be an appropriate hero for the things to come in terms of abilities or interests, ect through establishing what the setting is in broad strokes (For example, PCs for an Avenum style "You're all exiled to the underdark by the new Emperor because he's a mad cunt" will have some archetype overlap with other settings, but there's some that simply wouldn't fit).
But then hands control over to the players to decide what they want to do within that setting, who their characters become, their goals and desires.

It's kind of a painting and frame type deal.
Modern games have the players build a frame for a painting and then let the DM paint the picture, so you end up with retarded, garish looking frames as players try to influence the art yet to be painted.
OSR games expect the DM to set up a frame, lay out paints, brushes, all the tools then hand things over to the players to decide what the painting is going to be.

>>96976968
I hate this particular delusion. Shitty 5e characters are made by shitty players with little esperancie in regards to story telling, in a game or otherwise. It's not baked into this or other system. And OSR does not offer an answer for that. Shitty or inexperienced players are gonna make a bland, sparkledog character in 1e as well. Just play with people who aren't 16?

>>96976537
>simulationist bullshit
FOEGYG

>narrative and simple rolls
FOEGYGGER

Jokes aside, absolutely not. A good chunk of NuSR might fit your theory, but definitely not OSR.

>>96976989
Interesting thought. You're probably mostly right. Might even be n00b Player's Handbook worthy, if the Anon who created it agrees.

>>96977075
>esperancie

>>96977216
>>esperancie

>>96976560
>That's what dummies on reddit think, I suppose, but they've lost the plot so bad that they can't say what OSR even is anymore.
The funny thing is that when Simulacrum's blog posts about OSR history were first posted on Reddit they didn't get much pushback, and they still don't whenever they come up, people just go "oh, that's very comprehensive, nice" – but then they just memoryhole the posts and keep on with their retard definition.

>>96977317
Bold of you to presume that they read it. Too much words not enough pictures.

>>96977075
Still might add the oe part to my houserules as part of it goes over that my game (S&W or B/X) can be lethal and its best to develop the PC in play.

>>96977216
>esperancie
Why must you kill me for phoneposting brother?

>>96977343
Don't get me wrong, OSR is really good at emergent storytelling. I'd argue, far better than modern systems where a lot of power is baked into "expected" rewards like leveling up and "building" character.This is part of the appeal.
But there ain't no system that can heal a truly retarded player.

>>96976989
Interesting point, Anon. I think you're on to something.

>>96977075
Walk me through how to make a sparkledog PC in LBB OD&D.

>>96977365
>Walk me through how to make a sparkledog PC in LBB OD&D.

Exactly the same as the 5e sparkle dog from the picture. You write stupid, elaborate backstory and try to reflavour your abilities as cool anime shit.

>>96977378
...your abilities???

>>96977356
Yes and no.

I had a player who first day showed up to a White Box:FMAG game with a 10 page backstory. 4 months later (and about 12 sessions.) he had figured things out.

>>96977401
What kind of abilities a 1st level 5e fighter has that are more outlandish than a 1st level fighter from previous editions? Or thief vs rogue? Wizard is obviously more powerful level 1 than magic-user because 5e babies need their cantrips but that's an exception rather than rule.
You could argue that races in 5e get more flashy bullshit and to some degree it is true. But it's hardly basis for the overblown backstory special snowflake shit that some players try to pull.

>>96977406
Hey, then they weren't retarded. Maybe just new. I've had a dozen of players who really took to liking the sharper, more satisfying curve of OSR games. But some of them started pants on head stupid.

(Man, it's nice having a general that isn't being insistently shit on, huh.)

>>96977427
The backstory bullshit can ultimately be traced down to the lack of XP for gold, not to anything related to character power. 2e/WotC D&D has no goal, so people come up with all kinds of bullshit to make up for that. Perhaps the same thing would happen in Chess if you removed the checkmate rule.

>>96977356
>OSR is really good at emergent storytelling.
Is it though?
That's kind of the cope that comes from it being so primitive and basic.
It's kind of like a kid getting a pile of sand for Christmas and telling the other school kids he got a castle.
It's important to separate the various levels of coping that some people in the OSR use to fluff up every aspect of old games, rather than the actual good ones. If you don't, that's how you end up with those guys who do that "Zero backstory, Zero personality, Zero character" meme'ing shit and jerk off to the idea that their shit characters are somehow not shit because at least they're better than 'imaginary strawman'.
You're going to find "emergent storytelling" in just about every RPG. Hell, you can find "emergent storytelling" in a game of Minesweeper.

>>96977446
I would disagree. Entitled cunts and kids who don't know better are gonna try to remake Aragorn or, more likely nowadays, their favorite anime guy no matter the intricacies of leveling curve. One thing that old editions are really good at is showing the wannabe main characters that you have to earn the epic stories.

>>96977455
I think it is. Tying far more power to things that are gathered, earned or ventured for tends, in my experience, make the progression more satisfactory. Lots of older games, games that, mind you, I personally enjoy and find fun, have some a degree of power baked into just surviving level to level.
It might be a bit anachronistic nowadays, but this slap dash aspect to progression, where the world shapes characters to higher degree than in more modern systems has quiet a lot of charm to it.

>>96977473
>older
I meant modern. Sorry.

>>96977473
> Tying far more power to things that are gathered, earned or ventured for tends, in my experience, make the progression more satisfactory.
The same thing happens in modern games. One advantage that more complex/refined, ie, good modern games have is that they often have more to build off from, so whatever is gained from the adventure resonates better with the character/player. It's not like "People care about what happens during the actual game" is some sort of forgotten secret.
Really, the only place it doesn't happen is when you start strawmanning up some groups, and the same thing can be done in reverse with OSR games.
>Oh wow, your fighter became a lord, how original and exciting. Lemme guess, you've got a list of things you killed and gear you gathered too?
We really need to be wary and avoid the sort of cope rhetoric that has less to do with reality and more to do with pseudo-sales-pitches.

>>96976537
No you are wrong, you're an idiot and please kill yourself before moving to another thread

>>96977519
ntayrt
>everything is just this one thing
No. Contextual factors are different and highly relevant for group experiential entertainment like rpgs. Systems and players in combination matter. I understand you like specific sorts of contextual factors. Others have different preferences or understand it suits different goals.
That's it really. You can't try convolution xyz about abc to make it back into what you want to make noise about turning everything into an amorphous decontextualized goop.
>we
fuck off with that.

>>96977519
I mean yeah, it still happens in more modern games, I agree. But modern D&D editions and derivatives also tie a lot more character power to just leveling up. Feats and special abilities are pretty much a standard. And moreover they are almost always planned. You can't bank on getting that sweet +2 sword (unless you are playing PF2E, a game that I wholeheartedly love, but could nitpick to death) but, unless your character dies, they will get their next feat or class ability. What I'm referring that is that when you move some of that power budget into items or even places (like bases) or NPCs(retainers/hirelings) it feels different.
This is not to say you can't have those things in say, 3.5. But OSR games are geared in a way that tends to emphasize those aspects. A 10th level cleric is powerful both in AD&D1e and in 3.5. But the latter is much stronger without gear and his entourage than the former.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to bash modern games, I love a lot of them. But in my experience those seemingly minute differences do create different stories.

>>96977543
Can you try that again, but talking to me like a person?

asked in the pdf thread but it might be better here

anyone got 1e adnd covers in pdf for Lulu the POD covers fucking SUCK

>>96977549
You first.

>>96977455
So sure you just here to be a shitty demoralization troll?

>>96977543
Why are you so insistently antagonistic? Go away please

>>96977553
You already got the images last thread. Create the covers then convert to pdf

>>96977589
werent me thanks

>>96977553
>>96977626
Guy who asked last time (was a few threads ago) was happy with this one IIRC

>>96977589
Don't be a dick, we take care of our own here.

>>96977546
The reason many modern games put more power into the classes themselves is because old school games had a very high chance of just ending up being shit. Gygax even had to write lengthy treatises on how DMs needed to not be stingy (and also not be too generous), and even with the best DMs luck could leave a character being dead weight or even boring to play. Giving characters some basic abilities as they level up helps prevent worst-case scenarios from occurring so often.
It's really easy to go full-nostalgia mode and only remember when things worked out, like the people who remember casinos fondly. There's no need to romanticize it too much, especially when it involves villifying efforts to bring some balance and consistency, with that vilifying involves forgetting that modern games, especially at the lower levels that people tend to actually play at, still can be incredibly treasure dependent if the DM orients the game that way.
Not saying you're vilifying them yourself, but I've seen a lot of caustic rhetoric that is often incredibly one-sided on these things. Bugs end up being treated like features, that sort of thing.

>>96977647
nice saved me looking

>>96977460
>Entitled cunts and kids who don't know better are gonna try to remake Aragorn
Thing is you can outright tell those people "Remember how we met Aragorn as a rando ranger in a bar? That's where you are. If you find out you're secretly the heir to a throne that'll be through gameplay"

>>96977455
>>96977473
I think this is a bit like having a good pair of old jeans. You can go to a nice store and buy some really great high quality ripped jeans that look worn-out and well-loved for $300, that's ok, but you can also buy some shitty basic $15 jeans at Walmart and wear them till they become YOURS, every rip, every stain is there because of something you did or happened to you while wearing them.

It doesn't make the jeans better (far from it, they are still jeans from Walmart) but I believe it makes them unique, and that's how I see OSR characters as well.

>>96975281
My group is 25 sessions into Stonehell (and surrounding area) and it's been a blast so far. I'm changing a few things aesthetically but so far I've really enjoyed it. My players haven't even made it to level two yet. They're the type to explore every nook and cranny before moving along.

>>96977932
Any guides /recommendations for running stonehell?

>>96963755 (OP)
Has anyone actually tried out Oriental Adventures? It's hard to find people online who have actually played it.

>>96977868
You're way off base here.
Comparing getting things as part of your character class with rich people faking having lived-in jeans is some of that empty rhetoric about how gaining things as part of your class is unearned or undeserved, as if getting things by chance or via a generous DM is somehow more merit based. It's part of that whole "You're only allowed to have fun after you've suffered" kind of coping that acts like enduring bad mechanics is supposed to be an encouraged necessity.
It's the kind of cope along the lines of poor people with tattered jeans saying "You know, rich people would pay $300 to look like this, having ripped jeans is good" when it's more of just "Rich people can throw away money and happily do it in ironic fashions." It doesn't actually make the jeans better, and the "they have a story" slant is a literal sales pitch.
Ending up with a shitty character because the system makes shitty characters commonplace is just something you have to put up with, not something to celebrate, especially not just because the shitty character just so happens to be yours. And, when you've played enough games to have seen enough characters get whipped around by the same rather generic random forces, the "uniqueness" falls away, kind of like how all those rainbow tiefling technically have different colors of skin and unique accessories but end up looking all the same from afar.

>>96978039
Honestly it's been the easiest module I've ever ran. It's laid out exceptionally well. My general advice would be to put a base nearby, a tavern/town within a day's travel to use as a base and map out the surrounding area a bit. Your players are going to need to go between town and the dungeon pretty often. Beyond that, just pick a place to plop it down and massage the background info of the dungeon to suit your setting. I placed mine in the far north of Greyhawk, for instance, near Kelten. I also placed a tavern on the outskirts between the town and the dungeon that caters to adventurers braving Stonehell. I've got rumors on the table that lead to other modules (Modnar's Cellar from one of the SH supplements, for instance. That was a fun dungeon.)

As far as actually running the thing, it's pretty straightforward. Let your players go where they will and ignore what they'd like. I would advise to make good use of reaction rolls and not play every monster as immediately hostile. There are some interesting faction dynamics going on within the dungeon. My players have ingratiated themselves to the Kobolds who maintain the dungeon as well as a local necromancer. Right now they are doing dirty work for Orcs and trying to plan how best to betray them when the time comes.

Does anyone utilize # of languages known as a way to limit M-U acquisition of spells? This is definitely homebrew/modding stuff, but I want Intelligence to matter more for M-U and just more in general.

>>96978039
Yeah. Print out the maps for every level.
On each map, assign each group of creatures or faction a color, color in the rooms that they are in, and put indicators on the map of which rooms have treasure or traps.
Then using each creatures color, draw lines in between the rooms they occupy to show you the territory that each faction controls.
I also highly recommend that you use my cleaned up Stonehell maps.
Also don't forget the extra add-ons that were written for stonehell

>>96978335
No, I just use the percentage chances for learning spells and the min/max spells known tables from the DMG. You could also refer to the Cleric/Druid Wisdom Score Bonus table and apply INT for Magic Users to that. I saw that in Grey Elf's house rules document and thought it was a good idea.

>>96978393
Oh hey, it's you. I'm the first anon who replied to that guy.
Thanks again for your cleaned up maps. I've been using them in my game and they've been tremendously helpful.

>>96978469
No problem, I made them as a labor of love for my own campaign. and I like seeing other people use them.
To the anon asking, I will post the maps later when I am home at my PC.

>>96978335
>Does anyone utilize # of languages known as a way to limit M-U acquisition of spells?
No.

>I want Intelligence to matter more for M-U
The answer to your problem is in the PHB, which is required reading.

>>96978825
>The answer to your problem is in the PHB, which is required reading.
Which one (, faggot)?

>>96978393
>I also highly recommend that you use my cleaned up Stonehell maps.
Did you share them here? I'm here most of the time but I can't remember anybody posting them.

>>96978232
It'd be nice to find the happy balance.

Not pure-faggot-grognard crap where people pretend they're glass-chewing badasses because they have Bob the Fighter die followed by Bob2 the fighter picking up his gear and repeat that cycle until Bob5, and not deathless games where players plan out their whole character from their backstory to their ascension to godhood.

>>96978839
There's only one PHB, Anon. Anon is referring to Intelligence Table II on page 10, which defines the chance to know spells and number of spells known as a function of INT, and to the notes on that table on the same page which explain the procedure in detail.

>>96978039
A common recommendation, (or, it's more like it's built into the module as an easter egg, really) I didn't see the other two anons mention is putting the entrance to the dungeon where the Caves of Chaos are located in B2, replacing the Caves with Stonehell. The valley leading to the gate in Stonehell is shaped exactly the same as the Valley of Chaos for a reason.

A third anon posting about his campaign in the general is doing just this (assuming you're not him, of course, which just occurred to me as a possibility).

>>96978839
>Which one
ngmi

>>96978919
>A common recommendation, (or, it's more like it's built into the module as an easter egg, really) I didn't see the other two anons mention is putting the entrance to the dungeon where the Caves of Chaos are located in B2, replacing the Caves with Stonehell.
We discussed this a few threads ago, one of the Anons is running his campaign on this map that I made and shared a few weeks ago.

1/2

>>96978960
>>96978839
2/2

>>96978919
>>96978960
>>96978968
1 hex = 100 yards

>>96977546
>seemingly minute differences do create different stories.
This.

>>96976560
>Check our the noob guides listed up top, it has more detail.
Yeah they lost me at tracking torches. Definitely not at all what I expected from what redditards said.
Damn, not sure if there even is a general for what I'm looking for then. Which is mostly exciting unorthodox settings (I despise fantasy), little prep and rules that push players to engage with the narrative in fun ways.

>>96979098
All right no problem, see you later thanks for visiting the thread

>>96978960
>>96978968
Aaaaaaw yeah. That's the stuff.

>>96979098
Check out NuSR, it might be more what you're after: >>96829321

>>96979098
It happens, pal! Redditards can't be trusted, not your fault. Hope you find what you're looking for.

>>96979098
That N00b guide is a bad joke. It's like what? A year old and completely wrong?

>>96979200
Thanks anon, looks promising!
>>96979232
Allegedly updated in September but I have no idea obviously

I wish the D10 table was included in this OP. Some cool stuff has come from anons rolling on it.

>Ape Cowl

A cloak and cowl made from the hide of a Jambootan Giant Ape. Provides an AC bonus of 1 due to its thick leather hide. The head of the ape has been preserved with expert taxidermy in a terrifying expression of primal fury. Pulling the cowl over the wearer's face and lifting the edges high, it may be used to attempt to scare unsuspecting enemies (as Fear spell).

The hide of the Ape repels water and is quite warm, if a bit musty. It is not, however, particularly resistant to fire. When making an item saving throw, saves against fire (all types) are made at a penalty of -3.

>>96979239
>>96979232
Feel free to create a new guide and publish it here so we can share it!

>>96979239
And it's just all "gygaxian" slurping.

>>96979098
>in fun ways
I really wish that people realized there are far more "fun" things to engage with, and that little annoying rules were the exact sort that Gygax would just plow over in his own games.

>>96979275
>Tracking torches is hard
>Gygax bad!
I thought you discord -raider demoralization trolls gave up yesterday?

>>96979270
>read b/x
>you will have the base you need to move forward after you've done that

And done. And much better than that bullshit you keep trying to use to groom newfags.

>>96979286
I didn't say it was bad, I said it's not what I was looking for.

>>96979232
Ban expired, huh?

>>96979286
>hard
No, just that its a piece of bookkeeping that doesn't really add much to the game compared to the effort put into it. Some effort, for next to no benefit. It's definitely a take-it-or-leave-it mechanic, and not some fundamental core that needs its own pedestal. That's how you end up with things like Shadowdark.

>>96979232
What? For all the "LOOK AT THIS CONSTITUTION WE HAVE ALL SIGNED AND MUST ABIDE BY" the trolls been pissing about just like his faggoty concensus lie, he only made it that long ago? Shit, he's been acting like it's older than the general itself.

>>96979339
There was a reason it was being deleted. Now we just kinda got sit with it because fighting his autism just makes him get more autistic.
Let him "groom" whoever the fuck he wants. Anyone dumb enough to trust him deserves it at this point.

>>96979298
I didn't write it, but I'm not the one complaining about it, so if you have changes you want to see, try to make those changes happen.

>>96979322
>doesn't really add much to the game
Bullshit!
http://harbingergames.blogspot.com/2020/04/if-your-torches-burn-for-only-one-hour.html

>>96979401
The pastebin anon has been good about folding in changes that honest people have suggested

>>96979444
That's good. Ive never actually read it because I've never felt the need for it.

>>96979401
Except people have tried to change it. And explained why it's terrible, if that wasn't obvious already.
But, the guy who wrote it keeps hoping to pretend it's some sort of official /osrg/ document that reflects all of our views, and completely refuses to even acknowledge that there are differences in opinion. Hell, he's the same guy who's been lying about a consensus about 2e here.
His goal isn't to help n00bs or to provide actually make a guide using /osrg/'s full and accurate opinions; he's just pushing his personal propaganda cause that's how he operates.

It'd be one thing to say "This is my point of view, but the OSR has many others", but instead he's going for a straight up "This is the only right way, any other way is plebbit."

>>96979444
That's a hard lie, and made even harder for thinking you're the guy who can determine who's honest or not.

>>96979456
lmqo so just write your own guide and post it in the thread instead of this weird passive aggressive seething

>>96979464
I call 'em like I see 'em. All you fags do is bitch about it and say it's "grooming" and shit, and you're apparently mad that it doesn't accept 2e as an OSR system, which is not an actual controversy.

AD&D 2e is the point at which the new school philosophy began to get baked into the rules instead of just appearing in crappy modules like Dragonlance.

>>96979456
Who gives a shit at this point.

You going to try and stop every little cult of faggots on 4chan? There's much bigger fish to fry than Brosr tards.

>>96979521
>fish
>brosr kvetching
It's incredible that you retards actually think any of this is true

>>96979521
I just want to talk about OSR without having to explain basic shit like no, there's not a single way that even Gygax played and there's a couple hundred different interpretations of even just that. It's ahistorical bullshit that's been acting like poison in the OSR for over two decades now, and even worse there's definitely going to be people who feel pressured to use rules that are not really all that good just because they were told they HAVE to use them or its not real old school.
I don't think there's any dumber attempt at making a mini-cult on this board. Maybe there's some dumber on /pol or something, but I'm not going to bother checking.

>>96979456
>>96979521
Fuck off fishfag.

Oh god dammit not this shit again. Fuck off you faggots. Talk about games. Every fucking thread it's the same shit.

>>96979599
Okay? But that's where you're completely wrong, we completely acknowledge that there is no one universal style of play, and that old school play can take multiple forms.
What you seem to be misunderstanding is that even with this in mind, we are still specifically narrowing and focusing our scope on to the style of play that we enjoy.

If you'd like to discuss topics that aren't underneath the umbrella of this thread, you can either try to push it here, or make an entirely new thread for it. There is no need to act like somebody kicked over your personal Sand Castle or something

>>96979599
Then talk about OSR. Talk about 2e. Ignore the OP troll, ignore the troll guide.

>>96979664
He actually won't, just like he won't post a character sheet if you ask him: he doesn't play games, and he doesn't want to talk about them, he's a disruptive demoralization troll.

>>96979643
Anon, until the mods permaban that asshole he's just going to keep coming back and trolling this place (and /nsrg, and the 2e thread, and the 3e thread, and...). He's been at it for literally years. Years.

The first 200+ posts in this thread were while he was banned or forcibly sedated or whatever and look at how quiet and productive they were. There's no point complaining about both sides when there's a schizo who's just going to post off-topic crap and revisionist history bullshit whether or not anyone replies to him.

>>96979643
It's been like this for what feels like a decade.

>>96979680
11 years?

>>96979723
lol

>>96970574
It might actually be. At least as far as AD&D goes. I think it's good for it to actually feel like a game.
Just comparing the groups I've played with, the 2e groups have often felt a lot less "forced" when it came to the old school style, and definitely a lot less arguing about rules. Some 2e groups got a bit weird, but definitely some of my worst experiences were with 1e. Not all, or even most were bad, but there's definitely been a few stinkers, especially in the last five years or so.
Probably the worst player I ever met was in a 1e game. Complete grognard, non-stop arguing over rules with the DM, just a total loser of a person who'd always default to being passive aggressive and saying he just wanted everyone to play the right way.
And this was with a DM who was playing 1e pretty faithfully and strictly. That might even have been the problem, because he'd usually be right and that's why he'd try arguing with the guy in the first place, like he thought being right would be enough to quickly settle the matter.

>>96979795
Rulesplayers are weird.

Everyone says they hate them, and yet there's still rulesplayers.

Introduced my LGS owner to the concept of OSR, now he might be stocking OSE. Small steps.

>>96979680
Believe it or not, I think his fixation on the OSR only started around 2020.
I've been in /osrg/s off-and-on since 2017ish and while there was always vitriolic shitposting, it always seemed to come from an earnest place. 2020 was a marked shift in posting, where shitposting increasingly seemed less like passionate autists communicating with acid and more like people pretending to be retarded for the epic gotcha.
Like. did you notice that before he showed up even this thread's 2e talk was relaxed and/or ignored? But he wakes up and both the 2e- and anti-2e-fags are telling people to kys and someone is screaming about fishfag.
It's either a schizo samefagging both sides or a coordinated raid.

>>96979676
It would be nice if that trolling asshole just accepted 2e is OSR.

All his revisionist shit about when the OSR started or how he even thinks his personal 2e hatred is widespread is ridiculous. He even keeps lying and says it's always been offtopic in the /osrg/, when the archive proves him to be a total liar.

>>96979835
Fuck off fishfag.

>>96979827
>Like. did you notice that before he showed up even this thread's 2e talk was relaxed and/or ignored?
Mostly because it was just low level trolling like >>96972172 >>96970773, the kind of ordinary shitposts you find on 4chan. The escalating stuff is always him going the extra step and trying to claim people need to believe his lies about a consensus, or about how they should trust his guide, or whatever else he's cooking up to try and go that extra step beyond regular trolling.

>>96979723
Hoohoo, gottem>>96979835
Dude this has been explained to a million times, it doesn't matter if you think it's osr or not, the focus of this thread is much more narrow and specific in scope, to the point of excluding things like 2e.

Please answer the following question: Is Shadowdark OSR?

>>96979887
You know you're more than welcome to make your own guide and thread right?

>>96979676
I'm noticing that the 2e conversation has been calm and productive. People even discussed the forgotten realms for a bit without too much whining, which is actually kind of rare on this board.

>>96979887
His escalations show he's dedicated/motivated, but they also haven't worked.

Just talk about 2e and other OSR and his trolling will ring more and more hollow.

>>96979816
It's because that kind of guy never sees themselves as what they are.

>>96979951
Most of that FR talk was about how Greenwood can't write, which I think is a bit unfair.

The Temptation of Elminster is decent. Greenwood has really spent a lot of time thinking of things from the perspective of a D&D mage, and a mage going through the process of restoring lost magic gives a lot of bits and pieces to think about. I think I preferred it over Making of a Mage, which is more of just the same path everyone else has trod a thousand times before.

>>96979947
>thread
Didn't people do that, and didn't a guy end up flooding it with spammed shitposts?
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96881801/#q96887950

>>96980050
No idea, I wouldn't have any reason to post in a thread like that so I wouldn't open it up.
But the same thing can happen in literally any thread, so you can either keep complaining about the one that you are in, or you can just talk about what you want, or make a new thread, but for the love of God stop complaining.

>>96980050
Just ignore it.

>>96980005
He's being compared to the early Drizzt books.

>>96980050
You're skipping the minor point of "guy also tried to hijack all of /osrg including the pastebin and title". Of course that's going to get trolled by actual /osrg members: no one likes hijack threads. But notice that the only person fucking with /nsrg and /2eg, legitimate split-off threads that don't try to claim the mantle of this ancestor thread, is fishfag: no one here is bothering, because no one here minds that people who want their own thing go off and do their own thing.

>>96979951
Still waiting on you to show us a character sheet

>>96980064
Those Drizzt books never appealed to me. One of my friends was into them and he was very much a "brooding edgelord rogue" type player. They just felt a little Gary Stu to me from the outset. In hindsight it's funny to me that I felt that way because I read Eragon and Dragonlance instead which are arguably much more guilty of that sort of behavior.

>>96980091
There's no login for this website, you know you're allowed to just make whatever threads you want? If you don't like a thread either stop complaining or just make a different one

>>96979951
>I'm noticing that the 2e conversation has been calm and productive.
A little off-topic isn't harmful, but now we're back to "2e is OSR you chuds fuck your noob guide stop grooming people" bullshit. Don't pretend like you can't see the difference.

>>96980091
>/nsrg and /2eg, legitimate split-off threads
/nsrg is a maybe, but man are you trying to troll us with that 2e and saying you made it for any reason beyond your "2e us offtopic" crusade here.

And, most of the /nsrg trolling came from some ACKS-shilling faggot who everyone blasted to death.

>>96980091
You're really gonna just try to ignore that link showing your shameless shitspam, aren't you?

Maybe should have thought about people showing what kind of troll you are with it before you spent hours doing it. Several times. In multiple threads. Same style, same pictures even, just so no one could mistake you and all just to show how little fucks you give.

>>96979827
>both the 2e- and anti-2e-fags

>>96980317
Are you still actually kvetching about your discord boyfriend?

>>96980317
Why are you upset that there's a thread for the thing you want to talk about?

>>96980432
He's upset because as he has demonstrated in the past he has no desire to actually talk about the subject, he simply wants to disrupt and demoralize this thread like he has done with other generals.
He is attempting to make the site unusable through undesirability by infiltrating the populace and fomenting inane drama.

>>96979339
>>96979372
>>96979456
>>96979464
>>96979498
>Samefag Revenant
Well, boys, no doubt he's trying to shitpost out this thread so he can slap up a new hijack OP, so be careful you don't leave it too long making the new one.

For the record. The thread was going pretty peacefully and constructively for the most part. Then, all of a sudden:

>>96966162
>Just talk about 2e

>>96979951
>Just talk about 2e and

>>96979664
>Talk about 2e.

This is all from one person. It's the third time in a single thread that he calls for Anons to bombard this general and clutter it with posts that are not the its subject according to the OP. The first time he did this it was deleted, and now he's come back and starts doing it all over again.

Add to this all of his flamebait posts about "grooming", the BrOSR, and all kinds of other bullshit. Also deleted, and again he comes back and starts posting the EXACT same flamebait all over.

Not sure if he's ban evading or what, but it's pretty obvious he's not on /tg/ to discuss about games, he's only here to disrupt the conversation, like he has been doing for years at this point.

Recently his "activity" has even started to spread to other generals like /2eg/, /nsrg/, and even the D&D 3e and Pathfinder ones.

It's simultaneously fascinating and infuriating how much power a single malicious and highly motivated individual has to spoil conversation on the whole board.

One would think that there should be easy ways to prevent this from happening, though.

>>96979498
Whoops, didn't mean to tag you there lad, that was a misclick. Good post and apologies, Anon.

>>96980432
Because it was an unneccesary split. Even the /nsrg is limping along now, and I'm starting to suspect it's because it wasn't made by anyone genuine or with enough people actually wanting a seperate general, and just by you as a way to further split OSR topics.

The point of a general is not to make a private thread for a few people. It's to consolidate what would otherwise be multiple threads about a topic. When the general slows down to the point where it's lingering for weeks on one or two bumps a day, it really is just taking up space.

Imagine a 1e only general. Or a b/x only general. Kind of ridiculous, but yet you think the OSR should be split into "things i like" and everything else is put into the generals you only made to be a dumb asshole.

>>96980470
The way he attempted to hijack and fuck with the Pathfinder general was absolutely deplorable.
He came into that thread screaming and crying and blaming the brOSR from having chased him off and that's why he has to act like a baby in a different thread. The dude should be studied by psychologists

>>96980455
>don't leave it too long making the new one
I'm sorry, but I disagree. Racing to get a new OP out early is NOT a solution to hundreds of brigading and flamebait posts.

>>96980485
You were immediately outed on that lie and for being the one who did that, you psychopath.
Jesus christ, you are literally shameless.

>>96979456
It *is* an official /osrg/ document that reflects all of our views; that's why you're seething, fagballs.

>>96979599
Nope, that's incorrect. There's one single way to play that reflects the intentions of Gygax and Arneson as encapsulated in OD&D, AD&D, and Basic. Everyone in the entire OSR agrees on this.

>>96979835
That anon is talking about you, you idiot. The revisionist schizo he's talking about is you, and you're doing it right now.

>>96979951
>the 2e conversation has been calm and productive
Because there wasn't any. There were some limp, half-hearted trolling attempts at the beginning of the thread, nobody replied, and then actual OSR players talked about OSR games without any gay trolling until you managed to work out how to restart your router.

>>96980485
>The way he attempted to hijack and fuck with the Pathfinder general was absolutely deplorable.
He won't stop at anything in his pursuit of his goal to destroy /osrg/. It's not like he even cares about the discussion here, he's never once posted anything about any games.

All he ever does is post meta flamebait about what the OSR is or isn't, the BrOSR, ACKS, grooming and implying we're all pedophiles here, claiming we have a secret plan to make AD&D 1e off topic (odd months) or B/X off topic (even months), and making new bullshit up all the time.

He has a single-minded obsession to cause mayhem.

>>96980540
>shameless troll begins his meltdown
Man, eat shit, you wannabe-manipulative shit.

No one's stupid enough here to just go "oh, i should trust this dumb faggot, he's declaring something is official. On 4chan."

You don't get how this website even works, which is why all your bullshit about consensus and official seem so fake, even when you're not doing shit like trying to make boogeymen, flooding threads with shitposts, or hijacking not just this general, but other people's generals.

You have no limits to how shameless you are, and you still expect anyone to actually trust you. How fucked up are you?

>>96980482
>a way to further split OSR topics
But all OSR topics are in this general? 2e and NuSR games aren't OSR topics any more than 3e or 4e is. Just look at the OP if you're confused, our nice new OP text clarifies any inadvertent confusion there might have been on this point previously.

>>96980573
Thanks fishfag. Run along and take your meds now.

>>96979816
Not all are bad.
I have a few grognards in my regular 5e group (sue me)

However, through them I have met and played with some of their grog friends. One guy I was told would always read the PHB for whatever system and memorise that shit.
And he did. He was a little rusty on the old rules, but I met him after he had been into 5e for only a few months and he knew the book like the back of his hand.
He was however well adjusted to my grogfriend being the DM and would always accept "I'm the DM, I make the rules"

>>96980573
TOUT TOUT!

>>96980589
I think you mean "Trout"

>>96980552
How the fuck do you think you can just lie like this, when the archive shows how much of a shitbag you are?

There's even a reason why in that 3.pf you made, no one believed you or your samefagging about how it was really your fishfag's fault, and there was even a guy who recognized you the last time you tried posting in the 3.5 general about ACKS and had your now-famous meltdown about fishfag.

You've trolled too hard on this board, and people recognize you because YOU are the one with weird obsessions and you don't know how to handle them like regular posters do.

That's why you keep doing these dumb escalations.

>>96980573
>>96980611

>>96980594
Ah, yes, the ToutTrout.

>>96980611
Fascinating how the ToutTrout keeps trying the Towelie comeback every single time he gets called out on his misdeeds.

>braindead samefag trolling in an attempt at damage control

Still reading from the same playbook as always.

>>96980625
Anybody wanna stat it up?

>>96980497
Misrepresenting your delusions as reality isn't a good look. You seem to forget that the archive exists, and people can just go back and look at your bullshit.

>>96980670
You put way too much effort into being a troll.

>>96980611
>Fishfag used DARVO!
>It's not very effective...

>>96980694
No u.

>>96980699
Any efforr is.

>>96980611
What the fuck did you just say about me you little bitch?

>>96980005
Greenwood should probably stick to lore stuff and maybe short stories. It's seem it is novels where he has problems.

>>96980731
lol, that navy seal post he made is still one of the funniest things to come out of this whole mess.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96434718/#96583816
The best part is that he's gotten so embarrassed by people reposting it, in the last thread he even tried saying that it must have been a falseflag post made by fishfag just to make him look stupid.

>>96980797
He drops little short stories in his novels that are pretty good. Have little to do with the main story, but they're usually the best parts of his novels.

>>96980845
That was me actually, I'm fishfag and I was just really drunk when I posted, my b.
I'm trans btw if that matters

>I-it's not a falseflag
It's fascinating how you always give yourself away by going for anything that hits a nerve and seething about it.
And the fact you've got no poker face and always repost your own posts as proof you're right is the reason people picked up on it being your work in the first place. There really is no escaping from the original sin of being (you) is there?

He's genuinely embarrassed.