Thread 96975564

For discussion of D&D 3.0 and 3.5e
Synad edition

> Tools
https://srd.dndtools.org
https://dndtools.one/
https://d20srd.org
https://www.realmshelps.net/

> Indices
> 3.5
https://archive.burne99.com/archive/4/
http://web.archive.org/web/20080617022745/http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php
> 3.0
http://web.archive.org/web/20060330114049/http://www.crystalkeep.com:80/d20/rules3.0.php
> Book PDFs
https://mega.nz/folder/GMMUDLCK#1IXzJk1_yxlgNmPABGjcyw
> Dragon Magazine Index
https://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/
> Web Articles Orbital Flower Index PDF
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/91811106/#91824954
> Errata
https://web.archive.org/web/20201111205827/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata

>3e Resource Index Version 2024-04-17
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/92491374/#92530275
Previous thread: >>96842457
Experimental merger previous thread: >>96947623
Thread Question: What is your favorite non-humanoid playable race?

>>96975564 (OP)
Thri-kreen and it's not close. I love their multiple arms, I love their stupid knives, I love the bonus to jump checks, and I love how cute they are.

>>96975616
Thri-kreen are cool for sure. My personal favorite is probably Synad (hence the image), or if templates are allowed Necropolitan.
When you say cute, do you mean "adorable" or "hot"?

>>96975616
>>96975564 (OP)
Addendum: if that's too humanoid then I'll have to go with the the one-shot where I played a slaughterstone evicerator with spiked chains instead of swords

>>96975620
Or?

>>96975564 (OP)
>OP didn't include any of the shit they were talking about last thread and split the threads intentionally again
This is the faggot that was trying to start an unnecessary skub war last thread and drag us into OSR/2e drama.

Fucking troll is at it again. Why is he so fucking persistant
Here is real thread:
>>96975712
>>96975712
>>96975712

>>96975728
>>96975677
Returning to the previous format after a clearly failed "experiment" that was done entirely to stir-shit up is not trolling. There's no reason to merge the generals.

>>96975743
Failed in what way? Literally everyone but the anon having a melty was having fun discussing both pthfinder And 3.5. You're pissing and shitting yourself because you were WRONG.

>>96975743
Anon, you didn't even include the donated pathfinder stuff from last thread despite anons otherwise agreeing to name-change back to 3.5 and establish 3.5 as the main topic.
You're clearly not doing this because anons wanted it. You did this for your own ego.

>>96975774
I'm not the OP, and that's an alteration I would have made were I to have created the thread myself. I'm the one that always uses book screenshots as OP images anyways. Here's a screenshot of the goddamn notepad document I keep the header in, if that assuages you.

>>96975677
>>96975728
>>96975750
>>96975774
Fuck off.

>>96975782
Nope. Anon, you sided with this:>>96975789
This guy was trying to drag our threads into whatever fucking internet drama

>>96975782
Anon, I know you mean well, and it would actually be fair to include the pathfinder troves (even thuogh they'd likely fit better in the Paizo general). But it is true that there's some autist here who merged the threads in the first place, probably for internet drama reasons..

>>96975728
Lol, jannies deleted the wrong thread in less than a minute. Any bets on if the skub-whatever is a jannie? It'd explain why he hasn't caught a ban yet.

>>96975814
I'm aware of that, and it's what I'm pushing back against. I'm fine with the megas in the OP as a general resource for reference, but I'm also fine excluding them if it will simply continue to muddy the waters. I care more about this community continuing to have a place more than quibbles over a few links. It's the topic and core charter I wish to defend.

That being said, you do bring to light that anons are mixing each other up in the confusion and bickering over the particulars matters less than continuing forwards and discussing what we actually enjoy discussing. The drama last thread was incredibly banal.

>>96975782
>>96975814
>>96975832
Anon is samefagging. Literally no one on 4chan would suck each other off like this.

>>96975878
No one under the age of 30 gives a rat's ass about 3.5, and by then if you're still in this pisshole you've hopefully realized that earnestness and a willingness to actually have adult conversation is going to be far better recompense for any time invested than spending all day shitflinging.

What I'm confused by is why some random 2e fag had a melty over a whether a 3.5 thread is merging or not? Why the fuck does he care?

>>96975886
Anon, you dropped your mask.
You kind of just openly admitted that the anon against the thread merging was (you)/trollanon.
That kind of kills the mystery for the rest of us watching with popcorn.

>>96975887
It's a pathfinder player, their will is inscrutable.

>>96975892
>not sure if this is actually a problem with paizo thread or if this is the troll trying to start a new skub
>I'm too lazy to check

>>96975887
There's been a turbo autist disrupting random generals in /tg/ for a while now, he was in /cyoag/ for a stint too. The moderators could pull his MAC and perma-ban his ass if they wanted, but they won't do it.

>wake up
>check new thread
>20 posts of thread wars drama and nothing else
Good start lads keep it up

>>96975372
Thanks anon your lone reply mad it all worth it

>>96970881
Spell Level x Caster Level x 2,000 for a continuous effect magic item
So a third level spell cast as a 5th level wizard would be 30,000 gold, and would take about month to craft.

>>96975743
wasn't a merge. merge implies pf1 has some other general and it doesn't.
also this >>96975677
if you are the anon that was against it, you were outvoted like 5+ to 1 last thread

>>96977939
>wasn't a merge. merge implies pf1 has some other general and it doesn't.
You mean other than the Paizo Games General thread that's been used for PF1e discussion for almost 10 years? Let's check in with them and see what they think about the situation:

>>96948161
>Fucking why though, the only thing stopping 1e discussion is that there's fuckall left to discuss with no major content updates, and also probably the fact that all the people who give a shit about 1e fled to private discords years ago
>>96953858
>holy shit looks like that thread was completely fucked by osr schizos

Hmmmmmmm.

>>96977353
I was curious why one would bother but then remembered that Permanency is an explicit list rather than being generalized. Items it is I suppose.

>>96978118
I'm pretty sure there's a metamagic feat to turn any spell into a permanent version, but it might be an epic one so it's out of the question 99% of the time

>>96978118
It is little bit stupid how limited Permanency is but I can imagine they were worried about constraints on the "design space" of future supplement content.
>>96978218
I don't see anything like that from a cursory googling but if you can find it I'd be interested to see it

>>96978254
I feel like there'd be some relatively straightforward way to scale its costs off the duration/costs of the original spell; i.e. spells that innately last longer are easier. I could even see utility in a version of Permanency that only lasts a week or a month rather than 'until the next time you didn't notice that anti-magic field'.

That being said, it really does twist the knife on any weird balance decisions that do come up because now a fucked spell is just one more layer of armor that an evil wizard would put on themselves in the fullness of time.

>>96977939
Just report him. Maybe the jannies will get so annoyed by the stream of reports that they actually range-ban his ass. Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

Links OP tried to bury because he's a drama-loving faggot:
> (pathfinder 1e)
link repository: https://pastebin.com/RSt0rF0T
>PF1e Book PDFs
https://mega.nz/folder/OIUTAIgS#1mIpxubgBzcme1WjpdlKtA
https://mega.nz/folder/TAsiDLCQ#5_VrrgY18E_P6ilo_oWrnw
https://mega.nz/folder/1A0FzJrC#r-sKFy3CUFwCle8KJkhqmg

PF question: What's the best way for a 3.5 player to start getting into PF1e without getting overwhelmed by options? 3.5 eases you into customization by having most of the options gated behind level, but PF front-loads most of their options at level 1.

>>96978218
>I'm pretty sure there's a metamagic feat to turn any spell into a permanent version
No, but there is an artifact in dragon magazine that does that. It just requires being the sock-puppet of the evil god Set before you're allowed to use it.

>>96978394
Probably the best advice is reading old forum threads about whatever specific thing you are trying to accomplish

>>96978394
>without getting overwhelmed by options?
Realize that 80-90% of them are complete and utter dogshit, go find the collection of guides on zenith games for the class you like, and just read through it and cross-reference with the archive of nethys. Also, like the other anon said, maybe look up forum threads about stuff.

>>96956323
After reading through Quintessential Drow, I've realized you can apply all the masterwork bullshit this autist was ranting about to actual living creatures with Craft(flesh).
Anyone have a list of wtf anon was talking about so I can make Monks viable?

>>96978394
>What's the best way for a 3.5 player to start getting into PF1e
Read the corebook, because there are some changes to core conceits that you will miss.
>options
You need to learn how the game works before you talk about 'options'. PF is NOT 3.5.
>frontloads
That is an illusion, most options are gated behind feat chains with requirements or class growth. The only real difference is alternate racial features, but that is only a thing if you are using the online srd that has most material in front of you.

>>96978730
>Read the corebook, because there are some changes to core conceits that you will miss.
This. There are a bunch of minor differences that completely change how the game plays.
An example: Regeneration. In 3.5 it converts damage not of the appropriate type into non-lethal and doesn't lower the creature's real hps. It's amazingly powerful.
In pathfinder, regeneration is just fast-healing with the added benefit that you can't die from lethal damage not from your weakness. It's okay, but nothing amazing. A troll can get downed by sword damage and coup de gras'ed by an alchemist's acid flask.
The above means pathfinder doesn't have the "Weapon Collection" effect 3.5 enemies have, where player collect different weapons to have something for every enemy.

>>96978254
>>96978278
Kicking the party wizard in the shin to make sure he tracks his spell durations is miserable.
Personally I think buffs should be either Concentration, for the big impactful ones, or from Dawn to Dusk / Dusk to Dawn for all the others.

>>96978218
There's Persistent Spell which can be combined with Extend Spell to get up to 48 hours, if you have the spell slots (or Divine Metamagic).

>>96978394
In addition to all the others PF1e has 99% of its rules available for free in an officially endorsed SRD (along with 2e and Starfinder content).
https://www.aonprd.com/

You're a 16th level wizard who has obtained a trio of huge-sized platinum padlocks bearing artifact-level magical power oriented around containment.
Assuming the magic itself has no value to you, but the platinum is platinum, and thus extremely valuable.
You obtained them illegally and basically every religious organization in the region would seek to execute you if discovered on the open market.
What do you do with these locks?

>pic unrelated

>>96979143
>bearing artifact-level magical power
>the magic itself has no value to you
Unless our character is literally a got, these two things can't be true at the same time.
If we Are a god, platinum would also have no value to us.

>>96979143
Put them into cabinet in a tower until I can find out what they actually do. I'm level 16, I have fucking Planeshift, no way I'm going to sell artifact level loot for the price of platinum scrap. I can always go to Plane of Minerals and dig diamonds with a shovel if I need money, even if it may take me a year or two to organize the expedition.

After that I probably forget about them for fifty years, cause I have other stuff to do.

>>96978394
>PF question: What's the best way for a 3.5 player to start getting into PF1e without getting overwhelmed by options? 3.5 eases you into customization by having most of the options gated behind level, but PF front-loads most of their options at level 1.

There isn't one.
Pathfinder is bloat-central as the consequence of trying to go too simulationist as opposed to abstractionist.

What I mean by that is, 3.x gives you a set of rules, and several examples of how those rules might be applied, but basically expects you to add further depth through personalized house-ruling.
PF1, on the other hand, tries to provision that depth for you by describing all the things which 3.x expects you to house-rule, and as a result, its absolutely CLOGGED with options - unfortunately, just like in 3.x, most of the options provisioned by the creators are kinda shit.
Like, its cool they tried to do something with Sorcerers, ala the bloodline angle, but the result was that they just created a bunch of scenarios that, absent strong roleplay motivation on behalf of the character, nobody is ever going to play.

As someone who started in late 2e, and who played in the Alpha and Beta of PF1?
I would say restrict yourself to the 3.x core classes.
PF added a bunch of other core classes, some good, some bad, but if you want to get into PF1 as a 3.x person, the real concern is not getting overwhelmed - its failing to understand that PF1 and 3.x ARE NOT equivalent.
A lot of people try to imply they're 'mostly the same', but that's really not true - attempting to intermix 3.x material and PF1 material has, in my experience, always been a mistake that led to power variance issues, and people who start with one and don't take their time investigating the other often make severe game-impacting mistakes because they assume they are equivalents mechanistically (they are not).

>>96979197
>Put them into cabinet in a tower until I can find out what they actually do.
YOu know what they do. And their magic is of no value to you.
>I'm level 16, I have fucking Planeshift, no way I'm going to sell artifact level loot for the price of platinum scrap.
Thats its only value to you.

>I can always go to Plane of Minerals and dig diamonds with a shovel if I need money
Which is extremely dangerous and time consuming, and of little interest.

You have this thing here.
Its magic, but the magic is of no value to you.
The platinum is however, and in an immediate sense no less, as you don't have 'two years' to plan an expedition.

>>96979197
>After that I probably forget about them for fifty years, cause I have other stuff to do.
I wonder how many dungeons are just some random wizard's bank vaults that they forgot the locations of. It'd explain why so much loot is so random, some of it is the shit he made as an apprentice and couldn't find a buyer for.

>>96979217
>trying to go too simulationist
Pathfinder isn't simulationist anon. I don't think you know what that word means.

>>96979234
>Which is extremely dangerous and time consuming, and of little interest.
>Level 16 wizard of any competence
Pick One.

>>96979143
Can't you travel to another plane (or bring another plane's denizen to you) and sell it like that?

>>96979143
>>96979234
Anon is trying to fish for advice on his campaign, not asking genuine thread questions.
The actual answer is the anon is an idiot who doesn't see the value of things right in front of him and isn't competent enough to make money even with limitless mystic power.

>>96979249
>Pathfinder isn't simulationist anon
It is, compared to 3.x, which is the point of discussion.

Pathfinder is absolutely more simulationist than 3.x, if only in that it attempts to provision all the details of the simulation for you; a noble intention, but achieves similar faulty outcomes.

>>96979258
>Pick One
No, after playing this game for decades, I've got enough experience to know a Level 16 wizard who thinks he's got it in him to casually dip off and steal resources from one of the Prime Elemental Planes is not a minor endeavor.

Kind of silly to imply "I could take 2 years to do this" and then suggest its not extremely dangerous and time consuming, but maybe you're not the same Anon.

>>96979271
>Can't you travel to another plane (or bring another plane's denizen to you) and sell it like that?
In theory, but in context you're dealing with religious organizations that have outlets all over the place.
You could travel to another plane to sell it, but the deities/orgs you're dealing with have plenty of means of discovering it on the market.

>>96979279
>The actual answer is the anon is an idiot who doesn't see the value of things right in front of him and isn't competent enough to make money even with limitless mystic power.
You're very confrontational and kind of a moron, to be honest.
You assume that character is not already wealthy, not well-supplied.

That's not the point.
The point is, here is a resource, how would you go about using it?
The answers thus far have been
>go to another plane to sell it
Which was addressed, and
>forget about it because I can get money elsewhere with a 2-year-planned expedition to a deadly locale
Which is silly and ignores the question.

>>96979288
Again, no. Pathfinder is highly Highly gamist. More so even than than 3.5.
Your spectrum is also wrong, it's simulationist vs gamist, not abstractionist(a completely different measure not related to the other two).
The bloat comes from pathfinder cramming as much game mechanics as it can into its runaway power-creep. More content is not the same thing a being simulationist, the same way adding more perks to a skyrim skill tree won't make it better at simulating real HEMA.

>>96979315
>deities
Oh. We have deities involved then.
Yeah, that complicates things.
It's not a proper artifact, right?
Could you Disjunction it into a normal pile of platinum?

>>96979315
>Which is silly and ignores the question.
It ignores the question because your question is fundamentally silly. You want a wizard to waste time scrapping an Artifact for cash, when cash is much easier to get elsewhere for a wizard of that power. You're also assuming an artifact hold no use or research value to a wizard that can't make artifacts. Every inherent assumption in your question is just factually wrong on some level.

>>96979279
>>96979315
Also, if I may?
What differentiates a "genuine thread question" in the context of a game that's like 30 years old?

>>96979324
Again, no, Pathfinder is pure bloat-ware simulationism.

I don't care about your spectrum, because you seem like a confrontational douchebag with far too much confidence, on the verge of arrogance.
>The bloat comes from pathfinder cramming as much game mechanics as it can
Yes, exactly.
>into its runaway power-creep.
Runaway power-creep is the consequence of trying to be simulationist, trying to fill in every empty space with RAW information.

>More content is not the same thing a being simulationist
Depends on what sort of content and what your motivation is.
If you're trying to fill in every niche and hole with material you created, you are trying to provision the players with a set of written-rules for literally as-much-of-the-simulation-as-possible, allowing no room for player-introduced novelty to fill abstraction space.

Sounds like we just disagree, but since you're kind of a douchebag, you'll probably just go 'no ur wrong', which is fine by me.

>>96979337
>Oh. We have deities involved then.
We have religious orgs involved, so yes, we have deities involved.

>It's not a proper artifact, right?
It effectively is.
>Could you Disjunction it into a normal pile of platinum?
Unclear, however, disjunciton is a risky venture towards artifact-level power.

>>96979352
>Anon accidentally dropped the mask that early
WTF is with the quality of shitposters lately? We were getting into the start of a good skub-war anon, why did you give up the goose that early??? Fucking blue balls man.

>>96979338
>It ignores the question because your question is fundamentally silly.
Its not, youre just kind of an arrogant nitwit, it seems.

>You want a wizard to waste time scrapping an Artifact for cash, when
When he could spend 2 years planning an expedition to a dangerous-as-fuck locale, instead of doing something with the materials he has at hand?

>You want a wizard to waste time scrapping an Artifact for cash,
Is that all that you can think of to do with it?

>cash is much easier to get elsewhere for a wizard of that power.
Which was never the point.

>You're also assuming an artifact hold no use or research value to a wizard that can't make artifacts.
No, you're ignoring the paradigm of the question's presentation.
What it does is known.
It is of no value to you magically. Period.

>Every inherent assumption in your question is just factually wrong on some level.
Pot, meet obnoxious arrogant probably-autistic kettle.

>>96979380
>We were getting into the start of a good skub-war anon
Yeah, you suck in every conceivable way and are the Platonic form of what I stopped visiting this board years ago - all you retards do is slapfight, because it seems like 9/10 on the chans these days have SEVERE personality disorders.

>>96979380
I think it's the anon that had a melty over the threads merging.
He's not very good at maintaining quality shitposts. He can can start a good bait threadchain, but he always fucks it up way too soon.

Hey, I've heard the Complete Psionic book is sort of bad. Is there anything in particular worth plucking from it, or should I just read the whole thing myself?

>>96979399
>Dubs and Moggs

>>96979399
And of course, you're also all paranoid on the verge of schizophrenia.

Thank you for reminding me why I stopped frequenting this pile of sad, psychologically disturbed retards.
You may not return to your autist slapfighting.

Before I go
>>96979413
3.x Psionics is an utter shitshow. Read the book, with the understanding that basically anything you want to use out of it will require adjustment.

>>96979413
You should read it to understand how bad it is, but there is good knews:
WotC fucked up their rules policy so bad that supplemental books cannot update anything that came out before them. Literally the only thing that can overwrite a previous book is official errata.
As far as the rest of 3.5 works, the rules in complete psionic function as suggested optional houserules.

>>96979413
Power points are an interesting concept if wildly imbalanced, and some of the classes are cool. The main issue is that if psionics operates in the same sphere as magic it's just magic, and if it doesn't it's busted because something can have god-level spell resistance and will save but still get punked by psionics.

Soulknives are also cool as fuck and their entire gimmick is worse than a decent magic weapon.

>>96979440
>3.x Psionics is an utter shitshow. Read the book, with the understanding that basically anything you want to use out of it will require adjustment.

Hold on, whats wrong about the expanded psionics handbook?

>>96979440
>>96979445
>>96979455
He's asking about Complete Psionic, not the EPH

>>96979457
That Anon doesn't know the difference between complete psionic and the expanded handbook.

>>96979465
They repackaged the psionic shit so many times with so many rewrites that I get it all confused. Which I suppose is the point of the original question.

>>96979474
Complete Psionic isnt any repackaging, its an expansion on what was introduced in the EPH

>>96979465
Why the fuck did you reply to me?>>96979445
I was talking about the complete psionic dumbass. It can't overwrite XPH with it's dumbass rules updates like the 1 astral construct maximum

>>96979481
That anon is the troll baiting the thread dude. Report him and move on.

>>96979385
Anon, you are fucking retarded. Lock weights 1 lb - or equal to 50 gold coins. Huge lock would be 5 lb or 250 gold coins. Platinum costs 10 times gold at the same weight. Meaning your three artifacts cost 7500 gold pieces if sold as scrap. It's fucking retarded to sell them as such. It's chump's change for a level 16 character. Especially wizard.

In the worst case you can store them for later and see if anyone interested in exchanging them for favours or magical equipment you are interested in.

>>96979413
They nerfed a bunch of shit, some of which needed nerfing (like the power that lets you force your damage on your enemies) and some that didn't (astral constructs)

It also introduced dampen power, which is ridiculously good and turned psychic warriors into one of the best tanks in the game

>>96979506
>Anons are still coming into the thread not realizing the obvious bait question was bait
Anon, disengage your autism for a moment. You're being played.

What if you played a Warshaper and in combat you made your penis really big lol, straight elephant dong

>>96975564 (OP)
I need a sanity check. I want to believe I remember some 3.x race that had something to do with writing and words or some such (nothing to do with Truename magic). They perhaps were featured in one of the Races of books (Probably Races of Destiny which did Human and Human adjacent races).

>>96981277
Sounds like Illumians, which I'm pretty sure were in RoD.

>>96981328
Yes. I recalled them because I remembered reading that their creator was some kind of wizard/monk which was a weird thought on my mind that made me remember them.

>>96981024
just use a combination of morphic weapon+morphic reach to turn it into an extra long tentacle. It would become a natural weapon that you coud attack people that are 10 feet away with.

>>96982170
Worth pointing out that while the fluff text indicates you are inhumanly reaching with your arms, the bonus reach from the abberant feat applies to reach in general...

>>96982170
Only ten feet? You are thinking way too small

>>96982380
you can't bust out Operation: Viet Dong on every single encounter, you've gotta save that for the big fights

>>96981024
If you're using the Lewd Rules book(not BoEF), your attack bonus and unarmed strike are the mechanics used for measuring how well you fuck.
So a warshaper turning their dong into the most pimped out nubbed, knotted, spiked, horse-cocked, hentai-tentacle abomination would be the most optimized sex class. Monk would come in second thanks to their unarmed strike progression letting them go full kama sutra(rare W for monk).