Best Domestic Toy Company? - /toy/ (#11482551)

Anonymous
7/7/2025, 5:50:41 PM No.11482551
IMG_4547
IMG_4547
md5: 2c71e53a0573524faccb2c4ae4243b76🔍
Obviously /toy/ likes to argue about the best import companies, but who is the best domestic toy company? Hasbro and Mattel are obviously the biggest, with Hasbro producing more stuff that’s popular here, but they’re not the only companies. There’s Jakks, McFarlane, NECA, and more. Personally while I collect a lot of Hasbro stuff, I’d have to give it to NECA. I mostly collect just their horror stuff, but they always feel well worth the price with the amount of accessories and unique sculpting you get. With Hasbro, it’s mostly reuse and they always skimp on accessories. But I’m curious what other anons think.
Replies: >>11482559 >>11482605 >>11482606 >>11482888 >>11483040 >>11483046 >>11483293 >>11483610 >>11484322 >>11490971 >>11491748
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 6:07:40 PM No.11482559
>>11482551 (OP)
Honestly we're pretty blessed with the variety of stuff we can get right now.
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 6:55:10 PM No.11482605
>>11482551 (OP)
They're all pretty bad. NECA is right now the best I guess since their QC is improved. Their downsides are they're too big and the articulation tends to be poor. But at least they're painted and look proper. They sure botched gargoyles though with those wings though. Their current IPs aren't too interesting but if they actually had good IPs I'd consider buying more.

Mattel has the most reasonable standard MSRPs but masterverse is too big and their level of reuse from figure to figure is quite high. Their articulation also tends to seem like it'd be at least acceptable but is limited in nuanced ways.

Hasbro has the best size and does the "best" articulation out of all of them (which is hilarious given how bad it typically is), but lazy reuse and no effort at sculpted detail as well as their ridiculous pricing scams and attempt to milk their customers for all they are worth with 2-5 packs drag them far down.

McFarlane fell as far as he rose in the last 5 years and now has made his stuff near impossible to get, the figures are still even bigger and more unwieldy than most others, he botches a huge proportion of figures, has skyrocketed his prices from when he used to be the most reasonably priced, and somehow now has lazier reuse than Hasbro in many cases when he used to be all about unique sculpts.

Super7 we all know are crap and probably the worst among all these.

No experience with Jakks, Vala, Loyal subjects or modern 4horsemen.
Replies: >>11482664 >>11482725
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 6:55:48 PM No.11482606
>>11482551 (OP)
Ngl I think people don't appreciate Hasbro enough and they get more shit than they should. I would say most of their figures have a solid balance of good engineering, sculpting, and articulation. They feel sturdy and good to handle too. Meanwhile you can pay double or triple for an import figure and get something inaccurate or something overengineered and fragile that breaks easily. And many imports are skimping on accessories too.

I'll admit I don't pay too much attention to other companies but from what I have seen, overall I feel like they probably aren't as good as Hasbro. I don't like 7" figures like Neca and McFarlane make and McF is still using ugly pin joints.
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 7:58:11 PM No.11482664
>>11482605
Jakks is decent, they do nintendo and sonic figures. Mcfarlane has been a weird experience, like he just started making toys despite making toys for close to 30 years.
Replies: >>11482719
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 8:47:22 PM No.11482693
Jada
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 9:26:17 PM No.11482719
>>11482664
>Mcfarlane has been a weird experience, like he just started making toys despite making toys for close to 30 years.
I can't fathom the mental gymnastics of someone who hates articulation being in the action figure making business.
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 9:32:51 PM No.11482725
>>11482605
>delivered a full line of incredible modern figures of the Gargoyles when no one else could
They didn't botch anything you fucking mong.
Replies: >>11482729
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 9:35:03 PM No.11482729
>>11482725
Modern figures of the Gargoyles that can't do anything but fly because they have huge outspread wings
Replies: >>11482743
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 9:50:45 PM No.11482743
>>11482729
Sounds like a you problem.
Replies: >>11482761
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 10:15:46 PM No.11482761
>>11482743
Sounds like a problem for anyone that wants them to do things other than fly
Replies: >>11482775
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 10:31:21 PM No.11482775
>>11482761
Sounds like you don't know how to pose your toys
Replies: >>11482876
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 12:55:31 AM No.11482876
gargoyles
gargoyles
md5: a905469176fd7926014aef092c464879🔍
>>11482775
Try to hit this pose with those outstretched wings, mr expert.
Replies: >>11482894 >>11483272
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 1:12:29 AM No.11482888
>>11482551 (OP)
Jakks and Jada doing good vidya, but Jazwares being quality > quantity
I liked Nacelle's Robo Force, but now I want to see how their Moo Mesa line holds
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 1:18:16 AM No.11482894
>>11482876
Oh boy, your stupidity rears its head again.
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 4:26:57 AM No.11483040
>>11482551 (OP)
For some of these it depends on the line.

>Hasbro
Marvel Legends is shit, Gi Joe is fantastic

>Mattel
I don't even know what else they do, but their MOTU Origins/Masterverse and JW stuff are fantastic.
Replies: >>11483049
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 4:31:18 AM No.11483046
>>11482551 (OP)
Lego
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 4:31:53 AM No.11483049
>>11483040
>Marvel Legends is shit,
Wrong
Gogg
7/8/2025, 9:09:16 AM No.11483265
614RvotLD2L
614RvotLD2L
md5: 5ab273c642f96efeb71a82544df42903🔍
Pokemon selects, is the only line i actively pursue and buy. I bin alot of toys,but these are the only ones that usually get back out of the bin.

I think the fact each one is a unique sculpt, really made up for the limited articulation. I was waiting so long with wicked cool toys, and they only made 1 good gyrados, so every year, getting a handful of articulated pokemon has been great.

Don't like the humanoids though.
Replies: >>11483279
Gogg
7/8/2025, 9:17:29 AM No.11483269
Jazwares-Pokemon-Select-Super-Articulated-6-Moltres-Action-Figure
All the 6 inch domestic sculpts suck. The only exception was Jada toys, but they had articulation issues, where they were either too stiff, or not stiff enough.

Pokemon selects, is only not beloved because most /toy/ is 80's boomers. In 10 years, ML, Joe, Dc, etc. Won't be around, as those people enter retirement age. Pokemon likely still has 30 years left in the tank, unless some better monster fighter comes along.
Replies: >>11483279
Gogg
7/8/2025, 9:19:39 AM No.11483272
>>11482876
This line was fine, except for the wings.

Neca needed to make them out of cloth on a metal armature, or some other solution.

Clearly meant for display and not play.
Replies: >>11483279
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 9:28:40 AM No.11483279
>>11483265
>>11483269
>>11483272
I've watched enough YouTube gaming channels to know pokefags only care about plushies of their favourite pokemon
Replies: >>11483284
Gogg
7/8/2025, 9:32:29 AM No.11483284
161
161
md5: 32b143c5eac34605343a5e17aef17fb4🔍
>>11483279
No. Now they only care about cards, from a game they've never played.
Replies: >>11484244
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 9:46:21 AM No.11483293
>>11482551 (OP)
>best domestic company
>everything is made in China

what did the ameritard mean by this?
Replies: >>11483620
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 6:42:20 PM No.11483600
>shit products
>hasbeen company
>Lets others do their work
>Incompetent
>Dishonest
> Loyal fanboys constantly win the "fell for it again" award, pretending the shit the company does is perfect

Hasbro is the (((Trump))) of toy companies
Replies: >>11483620
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 6:48:27 PM No.11483610
>>11482551 (OP)
Mattel>Hasbro>Jakks>McFarlane>NECA
Mattel doesn't have the range of IPs like Hasbro does, but for what they do have they make really good toys (that are still toys) with consistently good paint and articulation. Sure they have made an art form out of re-use and don't use faceprinting on all their stuff, but you do get what you paid for every time and you aren't paying through the nose for it.
Hasbro have some of the biggest licenses right now, and they have made leaps and bounds in terms of articulation and face-printing in the last few years, but their quality control can be worrisome, outside of the face-printing their paint is getting worse in terms of fewer actual paint apps and going thinner with coats so you can see through the paint apps in places, they also seem to be constantly reducing the amount of accessories figures come with (even necessary ones) and are removing articulation points like thigh swivels, but the biggest issue above all is they're constantly kicking you in the balls by upping the prices every six months and they seem to have almost entirely forgotten they are a toy company.
Replies: >>11483613 >>11483629
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 6:49:27 PM No.11483613
>>11483610
Jakks have some really interesting licenses and make decent toys, but their plastic can feel cheap, and the articulation is often useless, but they also commit to a line. Their Mario line has been going strong for years now and they're one of the few companies that consistently put out playsets to put the figures in. I like 'em and haven't regretted a single figure I've ever bought from them. Also wonky articulation aside their Mario movie line was a work of art, a Bowser figure that "breathes fire" by putting a water vaporiser and red LED in the mouth was awesome, and the size, sculpting and paint on the figure is great.

McFarlane may never achieve the heights they had in the early 00s with the Movie Maniacs Line and other horror themed lines, but at least the new line of DC Multiverse has been consistent in its output (especially if you like Batman). The style may not be for everyone and the articulation is not great but at least Todd seems to like making figures just because they're cool (even if it's only cool to him). The Avatar line was really solid and using the different scales to fill different niches was a pretty solid move, the larger figures for display items of the main characters, and the smaller line for playsets and to do all the crazy Pandoran animals. Also the black light paint jobs to create the bio-luminescence was a nifty idea. Also the DC Super Powers line and Music Maniacs lines are both great.
Replies: >>11483617 >>11483629
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 6:50:29 PM No.11483617
>>11483613
NECA quickly usurped McFarlane's spot with their own movie statue figure line Cult Classics and for a while there they had the best sculptors in the business doing excellent work, great sculpts, good paint, interesting light gimmicks where appropriate, and extremely affordable. But the brittle plastic meaning that it was 50/50 shot whether your figure survived coming out of the packing fucking sucks, their paint has gotten worse over the years as they've moved to different factories, it's too think and often sloppy, which fucks up the great sculpts. The added articulation has made the joint breaking issue even worse. Also unless it's TMNT, Alien, or Predator they seem to be reluctant to put any real effort into any license they get.
And before you even start, fuck you, NECA anon, everything I just said was 100% true. Go slam your nuts in a refrigerator door, you in-grown toenail of a human being.
Replies: >>11483625 >>11483629 >>11483653
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 6:52:19 PM No.11483620
>>11483293
Pedo
>>11483600
Dead Cats Pedo
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 6:53:33 PM No.11483625
>>11483617
Bonus.
Jada have been going from strength to strength the last couple years. They obviously did their research before stepping up to the plate, immediately articulation is fantastic, paint is clean, and the have picked some solid licenses to start off with that let them carve out a solid niche for themselves to start working. The Street Fight line has been excellent and on par in terms of quality with either Hasbro or Mattel.
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 6:55:33 PM No.11483629
>>11483610
>>11483613
>>11483617
Oh cool the trolls are posting again. Mods you know what to do.
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 7:09:49 PM No.11483653
>>11483617
Not a single thing you said is true. You are such a shitposting retard. Like God damn, you really worked to be WRONG on every point. You've never fucking encountered one of their figures before apparently. Good job showing your ass to the world.
Replies: >>11483721
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 8:10:17 PM No.11483721
>>11483653
Every single word I said was true. I own multiple NECA figures I have two on the shelf right next to me (the Ultimate Predator Jungle Hunter and the Cult Classics NEW Nightmare Freddy, assuming you even know which figures those are), you don't own a single NECA figure, why even bother sperging out so hard for a company that you don't own anything from, and even more doesn't give a shit about you? Randy doesn't know who you are, NOBODY at NECA does. But I'm sure if they did, they would hate you. Not just because you're an annoying retard, but because the amount of hatred and contempt you instil in the people on this board (and probably real life too) has probably cause people not to buy NECA figures. I don't think about you all the time, because I actually have a life unlike you, but I do when I think about NECA figures. I think about the figures, then I remember how often they break, and how crappy the paint has gotten over the years, and how much I hate you, and then I don't buy the figure. Part of me wonders if you hate NECA as well, is this all some weird kind of reverse psychology thing? Are you trying to be such an annoying retard and piss people off so much that they swear off buying another NECA figure ever again? Because if so you're doing a bang up job. I cannot fathom how utterly empty your life must be that you can spend this much time shit posting for a company as irrelevant to the modern toy hobby as NECA. I've bought toys from every single company that OP mentioned this year, except NECA, Hell I bought the Mattel TMNT Last Ronin figure instead of the NECA version because it's a better toy, in fact I'll probably never buy another NECA figure again, not just because they make bad quality toys, but because you are such a sad piece of shit, that you have tainted any enjoyment of NECA I had left. Here's a couple videos of NECA figures breaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F96deENDA7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGb3SP9O0kk
Replies: >>11483793 >>11483953 >>11484225
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 9:12:53 PM No.11483793
>>11483721
All this total horseshit lip flapping just to show off not only what a liar you are, but that you have some kind of insane vendetta. Not only that but it's very clear you've never had any kind of interaction with the figures, or at least not without throwing a tard fit. The problem is without question -you- in this equation. Get help. You need it more than anyone. You're a revolting human being.
Replies: >>11483803
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 9:13:54 PM No.11483798
Jada
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 9:16:18 PM No.11483803
>>11483793
NECA sells shitty broken toys.
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 9:23:48 PM No.11483815
Hasbro and only the TF team because they work with the smart team over at Takara. Rest of Hasbro’s team are Slop maxers who only have to work on humanoid static body sculpts. The DND team was cool though.
Replies: >>11484457
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 11:27:10 PM No.11483953
>>11483721
Jesus, what an unhinged tirade. You're actually fucked in the head.
Replies: >>11483963 >>11484450
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 11:30:22 PM No.11483957
Burgers?
Burgers?
md5: 47bf70c31264a499a7d8abf5c86d9c7e🔍
>”Toys?”
Anonymous
7/8/2025, 11:37:08 PM No.11483963
>>11483953

I understand his pain. After being wronged so much by a toy company and retailers, and when your life is total shit, your job works you to near death, you have no future, you just end up venting all your hatred at the companies because there's nothing else you can do. Right now I hate McFarlane Toys for not letting me buy a toy, specifically designing its release so as few people can get it as possible, and I hate Walmart for canceling 5 of my orders when they say they have the toy in stock.
Replies: >>11484239
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 5:35:10 AM No.11484225
Flygon-Pokemon-Selects
Flygon-Pokemon-Selects
md5: 8258eb14b2d155173b2dad7a24e26461🔍
>>11483721
>thread is about favorote toylines
>instead of posting your favorite, you argue about neca

Why not just post good toys? Had flygon in my window for a year before binning it.
Replies: >>11484257 >>11484459
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 5:52:31 AM No.11484239
>>11483963
Dude, just give in and get your Cyborg Superman on Ebay
The amount of time you spend hunting for it isn't fun and isn't worth it the older you get.

If it makes your pee-pee hard for the hunt then go ahead but in the end you just wasted time and gas money for plastic and cardboard.
Replies: >>11484631
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 5:55:18 AM No.11484244
Screenshot 2025-07-09 at 12.55.01
Screenshot 2025-07-09 at 12.55.01
md5: 61743d40e631890edc92e1e4d0f2812c🔍
>>11483284
Yeah, I was chatting with a Poke-card "collector" and she was like "oh, I only buy the cards for the pictures"..... WTF
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 6:15:46 AM No.11484257
>>11484225
He's a brain melted troll, that's why.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 8:37:57 AM No.11484322
>>11482551 (OP)
Neca, they do all sorts of scales and excel with each new thing they do, jakks is great, but they like to keep all their shit cheap, mattel and hasbro are jackoffs that kill good lines and fuck with distribuyion on purpose to make sure customers can't get everything they want at once
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:20:54 PM No.11484450
>>11483953
No, unhinged is simping for a company, who make broken toys, but rather than either dropping the company or respectfully bringing up a complaint with them in hopes that they will listen to their customer base and improve, instead going into every single thread on /toy/, sperging out and attacking people, and doing it day-in-day-out for literal YEARS. Ruining threads, for YEARS, harassing people for YEARS. That's unhinged, I'm just pissed off.

NECA are scam artists.
Replies: >>11484564
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:25:54 PM No.11484457
>>11483815
Can they really be considered domestic if they work with Takara?
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 1:29:33 PM No.11484459
MOTU Cheetara
MOTU Cheetara
md5: 819ca1479362971fa2b8ba1f7864da35🔍
>>11484225
>Had flygon in my window for a year before binning it.
Why did you bin it?
Also in the vein of posting good toys, I picked up this MOTU Cheetara the other day. Didn't even know this line existed, and hot damn if it isn't one of the best toys I've gotten all year. Only downside is Mattel using that annoyingly flexible plastic on the joints, meaning the pegs twist before moving.
Replies: >>11484558
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 4:27:36 PM No.11484558
>>11484459
>hot damn if it isn't one of the best toys I've gotten all year.

-single jointed knees and elbows
-a waist swivel but no other torso articulation to speak of
-no butterfly joints

I can't understand how unless you are primarily a collector of retro figures or Black Series
Replies: >>11484561 >>11484562 >>11484565 >>11484620
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 4:29:52 PM No.11484561
>>11484558
It’s not all about articulation…
Replies: >>11484566
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 4:30:16 PM No.11484562
>>11484558
nta but must value sculpt over articulation.
Replies: >>11484566
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 4:31:31 PM No.11484564
>>11484450
You are an insane troglodyte. You really can't stop yourself going off the deep end in a fit of rage over a toy company. Not only that but you still lie about the toys you don't even have experience with. And then you keep spreading those lies. You are a scam artist. You are actually unhinged.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 4:31:53 PM No.11484565
>>11484558
>well it ain't a hunkin 1/12 scale bonodifed double eblow, knee jointed kinorino so I failure to comprehend how a simple baby toy can compete with actual collector premium grade quality collector figures when it's not even capable of kicking of ton of ass that's making me feel a little chunky
you six inch hyper articulated fags need to shut the fuck up already.
Replies: >>11484572 >>11484719
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 4:32:35 PM No.11484566
>>11484562
>>11484561
It's what we would call a "soft" sculpt. Not really much in the way of heavy detail. I imagine it must be character-based brainwashing or that the shape of her torso looks like a normal female and not whatever Hasbro is doing these days.
Replies: >>11484571 >>11484593
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 4:36:27 PM No.11484571
>>11484566
>lemme tell you kiddos. here in the business? it's clearly a soft sculpt, and not worth the money you sadly wasted your hard earn time on. do yourself a favour and return for something kino like a marvel legend or gi Joe classifieds
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 4:36:32 PM No.11484572
>>11484565
This manner of speech always makes me laugh
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 5:10:11 PM No.11484593
>>11484566
Anon, it's a budget figure of a character from an 80s cartoon.
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 5:35:42 PM No.11484620
71Ypt-ExEbL._AC_SL1500_
71Ypt-ExEbL._AC_SL1500_
md5: 9ac01da93f131e1403aa6b51d86872cb🔍
>>11484558
Just because it has less points of articulation, doesn't mean it has less articulation. I have figures with double elbows and double knees that can't bend as well as this can. Hell I have Marvel Legends Spider-mans that can't get into as deep a squat as this Cheetara can. Also the details simplified because it's meant to look like the 80s cartoon, but the sculpt itself is extremely sharp. The staff has tech details that run the entire length, and the filigree on the bodice is sharp. The details are even sharper in person than what you see in this picture because this is a painted proto-type.
But beyond all that, it's just fun to play with. I'll take a toy with 2, or even no, points of articulation that all I can do is do the "doot-di-doot-di-do" walk on my desk with that I can't cannot put down, over a hyper-articulated figure that poses great but just isn't fun to play around with.
Replies: >>11484621
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 5:38:07 PM No.11484621
>>11484620
>articulation that all I can do is do the "doot-di-doot-di-do" walk on my desk with that I can't cannot put down
Damn, what a fag
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 5:56:04 PM No.11484631
>>11484239
>wasted time and gas money
That's his problem. He's too fat to do that and is just making the online shopper grannies at walmart search the toy isle for it and say "this gizmo must be busted cause it's telling me to go to electronics to look for a toy". There was 5 at my local ghetto walmart where got mine last week.
Replies: >>11484712
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 7:18:36 PM No.11484712
>>11484631
I've been to Walmart electronics. Nothing there but Superman slop
Replies: >>11485375
Anonymous
7/9/2025, 7:25:21 PM No.11484719
>>11484565
Pedo
Anonymous
7/10/2025, 7:40:45 AM No.11485375
>>11484712
I'm alright with that. It's about time we've gotten simultaneous releases of toy items and movies. Better to see than all that Funko/Neca slop
Replies: >>11485576
Anonymous
7/10/2025, 1:54:14 PM No.11485576
>>11485375
Nah the Neca stuff is way better than all that movieslop waiting to go on clearance.
Anonymous
7/12/2025, 8:58:57 AM No.11487791
jakks and jada are the only ones with licenses I'm interested in.
Anonymous
7/15/2025, 6:54:23 PM No.11490971
>>11482551 (OP)
I only own Jada's Cammy but she's pretty much as good as a £24 6" figure can be. Genuinely fantastic toy. Hasbro is a weird one because Classified is top-notch (though annoyingly my Rawkus' right hind leg had a fused knee which broke when I tried to hot-water it free, contacting Hasbro support now) but their other stuff runs the gamut from variable (Transformers has some great toys but also some utter stinkers) to awful (Marvel Legends has only just ditched cut waist swivels a DECADE after they became obsolete).
Jakks' Sonic toys are pretty fun, nothing mind-blowing but still cool. Also, whilst the articulation on them is generally nothing to write home about, I do like 4H's stuff quite a bit; I have a few Mythic Legions goblins and the sculpts and paintwork are phenomenal. Helphyre goblin being my favourite, love that froggy fren.
McFarlane's 40K line is (was?) OK, but that was about it. I'm into customizing so I can overlook some of the flaws, and the big guys like the Marines are pretty good but the "human" sized figures are so ridiculously oversized that they're basically non-starters. Their Sister of Battle is a good figure but ruined by her being as tall as the Astartes.
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 8:57:42 AM No.11491748
>>11482551 (OP)
McFarlane is a awful company as far as customer service goes, when shopping directly from them, and how the treat their customers.

Their business practices are also just idiotic and stupid. I can appreciate not wanting to be buried with excess stock but you cannot, for example, just three-four days after the movie came out, find any of the McFarlane Superman Movie toys in any decent reputable Target or WalMart Super Center. I found a few random things at movie specific displays at various GameStops and that's it.

Yeah, I understand that when drops were announced, collectors and scalpers did their pre-orders and grabbed things, but toys are impulses purchases. Rando parents took their kids or teens to a movie on Saturday or Sunday but all they can find are cheap hard plastic Spin Master toys - and a limited selection of that. The only thing I saw was the one McFarlene thing that will clearly peg-warm - Metamorpho.
Replies: >>11491760 >>11491868
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 9:15:11 AM No.11491760
>>11491748
Superman sucked, James Gunn is a hack
Anonymous
7/16/2025, 2:29:05 PM No.11491868
>>11491748
At 35 bucks no kid except one with rich parents is getting the deluxes, only cheap spinmaster stuff