Stat based progression is the least interesting form of progression in video games.

>>712371817 (OP)
The best source of progression is playing a well designed singleplayer game like hollow knight, halo 2, or sekiro.
Fuck MMORPG skinner box fags
Fuck rank chasing online comp fags, (1v1 skill-based games are ok tho)
Fuck busy body stat numbers go up fags, like in vahalla ect.

Yes we all know niggers and jeets can't do math. Stick to tendie games.

>>712371817 (OP)
Which ones are better?

>>712371817 (OP)
well......explain your opinion OP. Why is it the least interesting? What is the most interesting? We're waiting

>>712371817 (OP)
The only form of progression should be new content, so you are right in that regard.
Take fantasy life for example, I complete the campagin in 18 hours.
After that there was nothing left to see in the game, except grinding 100s of hours for meaningless digital loot doing the same rote thing over and over again.
The game had ended in terms of progression.
Its the same with all other games.

>>712371817 (OP)
Not if it allows for divergent stat allocations for different playstyles

>>712372170
New content you dumbfuck
Would you rather have games like Amored Core, Claire expedition, and other new games, or a fucking fishing expansion to runescape, or a new stat in vahalla.
This isnt even up for debate.

>>712372194
Skinner box, trade time for neuron activation and Bing Bing wahoo. That's needed to sell games, as people will be pretty pissed if there's "nothing ot do".

>>712372346
Thats the thing though, take souls games for example.
Stats only increase health, damage, and stamina.
I guess stamina can confer a slightly miniscule difference in playstyle aggresion, but it is the weapon and spells hitbox, timings, and recovery frames that denote actual new gameplay not stat allocations.
If sekiro lets say had 10 different base weapons to choose from instead of just the katana it would likely be just as rich, if not more so in playstyles than ds3.

>>712372594
you are 100% right, and thats a said idea to come to the realization of.
But there are still lots of gamers who thankfully prefer sequels, and new games.

>>712372597
These games have hilariously bad stat progression.
>>712372194
Forgot to add: takuza takuza gaiden. Beating the game and plat is almost the same. This needs side and main content to tie together, as that's time consuming in the dev process. Don't forget that game devs are usually exploiting Jr level devs.

>>712372346
this

>>712371817 (OP)
Skill based progression will always be the best if its designed well to allow the player to learn before they confront the next skill level, I think Half Life 2, Quake, Thief And DS1 when i think good skill based progression.

Video games are still pretty bad at the whole game thing.

>>712371817 (OP)
but what if i find it the most fun?

>>712372872
>Forgot to add: takuza takuza gaiden. Beating the game and plat is almost the same. This needs side and main content to tie together, as that's time consuming in the dev process. Don't forget that game devs are usually exploiting Jr level devs.
but thats not unique to that game, that concept is true of pretty much all AAA games.
Look at the ubisoft tower argument for instance, to get all the ahivs/100% the game or whatever, you have to climb across copy and pasted towers that look visually identical from the rest, transverse the same terrain, same areas ect.
All open world games do this to 100% them
I remember the GoW ahivs on the 360; the hardest being kill 10000 grunts or whatever, its not new content, its just imaginary self imposed bs.

>>712372897
I forgot Hitman

>>712372897
>Skill based progression will always be the best if its designed well to allow the player to learn before they confront the next skill level, I think Half Life 2, Quake, Thief And DS1 when i think good skill based progression.
What are good singleplayer games with skill-based progression. Here is what I think of when I think of that (and correct me if I'm wrong)
>Doom eternal
>Nioh 2
>Slay the Spire
>DCSS
>Nuclear Throne
>DMC games.
I feel like theres not much sp games the skill-based progression with a high skill ceiling

>>712373169
I'm saying beating gaiden pretty much gives you a plat. Maybe 2h or so extra are needed.

>>712373379
God i forgot about DMC, my list was just shit off the top of my head, yours looks good, dont know what DCSS is but nuclear throne can pretty much be in the same boat as Binding of Issac or Enter the Gunguon where its 60 percent skill and the rest is RNG unless youre doing a zero items youtube video.

>>712371817 (OP)
It's the easiest to make uninteresting. Stats should naturally lead to paths and skill trees that favor a certain type of play-style. Not just be a way to grind past difficult sections.

The games with the most coherent systems tend to be games that are virtual recreations of real world games. Multiplayer vidya has the benefit of allowing players play against each other, but even those games tend to become overly predictable and static because their systems aren't well though out and can't reward more eccentric playstyles. The mark of a good game is that players can't rely on just reflexes and repetition because the playing field is constantly transformed by the players' actions and no session is the same as the last one.

>>712374620
Yep just like nioh 2

>>712375085
So fighting games and arena shooters? Those games are all reads and mind games rather than flowcharts at least at high elo

>>712371817 (OP)
it's the most controllable form of progression. They can gate power and have a general idea of exactly how strong the player will be for certain challenges.
If you just give players new tools and expect them to grow mastery over the course of the game, some players never will, and they will not feel like they have gained power during their experience. that's why we have number go up stats

>>712371817 (OP)
Lack of progression beyond maybe the levels being a bit harder is worse.

>>712376035
In arena shooters there was basically no counterplay if you were up against an opponent with quicker reflexes and a steadier hand, which is about as complex as losing at arm wrestling because the other guy was stronger. Team modes could potentially be different depending on how they worked.

>>712371817 (OP)
>player skill based progression

>>712372194
>new content
That's just novelty.

>>712379635
So you would rather have a new number go up skill in new world, as opposed to the ringed city?

>>712379782
Games should be fun to play so that you don't need "progression".

>>712371817 (OP)
What about stats based regression?
>As you play, your characters stats get worse
>Enemies stay the same
>To progress skill must advance as stats regress

>>712371817 (OP)
>stat based progression system that takes literal months to level up
>devs regularly wipe out that progress to further pad out the analytics

>>712372426
wut, some of the games you mentioned have stat based progression