Strategies peaked here

Red Alert 2 was too tacky with flying blimps and giant squids and other meme units. Red Alert 1 had some meme stuff, but it wasn't that immersion breaking. Red Alert 3 was Borderlands tier bad.

>>712524230
The camp is part of what made it fun, though I agree RA3 went a bit too far.

>>712524230
Most of the retarded shit in 1 comes from the expansions. Aside from time travel, I guess only iron curtain is too retarded but it thematically fits as a counterpart superweapon.

>>712524814
>They made Yuri in a skirt
>NO-NO-NO THATS TOO FAR
What's the difference?

>>712526073
>permathirsty nigger can no longer see anything beside some broad
Your brain is literally fried.

>>712524230
Campy Cold War supervillain stuff was still popular back then, I guess. If the game was made like a decade later, it would probably be about Allied/Nazi wunderwaffe instead.

>>712523226 (OP)
There was still room for improvement

>>712523226 (OP)
GENTLEMEN

>>712527395
IT'S A NUCLEAR DEVICE

>>712527770
TIME IS RUNNING OUT
TI-TI-TI-TIME IS RUNNING OUT

>>712523226 (OP)
Strategies peaked during ww2.

So, can anyone explain to me what is the point of Kirov Airship? Sure, it does a fuckton of damage, but it's ridiculously expensive, takes forever to build, is cripplingly slow and can get hard-countered by a bunch of cheap rocketeers.
In general, the Soviets seem to have a lot of toys that look cool on paper, but then you realize the Allies have a counter for every single one of them.

>>712530837
Soviets were worse in basically every aspect. Worse range, mobility, versatility, firepower, aircraft, artillery. I guess their navy was more sensible overall, and the desolators were pretty good.

>>712530837
It's supposed to be a fuck your turtling kind of unit but it's so fucking slow your enemy can just mass produce anti-air units, or a single aegis cruiser lmao, and kite the Kirov until he dies. Also it's one of the few units that's globally announced to every player when created, so you can't use it to sneak up on the enemy while he's busy fighting your main army. Usually it's better to just make an apocalypse tank since it's cheaper, faster and still really good at fucking up buildings like a Kirov.

>>712530837
Soviets were a rush faction that you had to capitalize on a good early game lead into a quick win or transfer the strategy into just burying the enemy in a pile of easily replaceable bodies and tanks.

>>712531318
C&C balance in general was always out of whack. In TD, RA1 and TS, it was always Nod/Allies that was the underdog, because while they have a lot of fancy toys, it didn't matter, because GDI/Soviets can just bruteforce their way by drowning Nod/Allies in tanks and they have no counter for it.
With RA2 Westwood oversteered in other direction, and the ONLY viable tactic for the Soviets is bruteforce... while the Allies have like a million ways to counter them.

>>712531448
>Also it's one of the few units that's globally announced to every player when created, so you can't use it to sneak up on the enemy while he's busy fighting your main army.
Also, you can't really sneak up on the Allies, because by the time you are able to mass produce Kirovs, your opponent will most likely have a Spy Satellite and like a million rocketeers to counter your stupid baloons.

the garrison mechanic was a huge force multiplier for the extra shitty conscripts but buildings were a limited resource too.

>>712531796
Right, I forgot Soviets also had worse scouting at every point of the game.

>>712532995
They had the Psi Emitter... until YR took it away from them, because I guess Yuri's forces weren't OP enough already.
Not that the Psi Emitter was any help when your Allied opponent literally has a maphack.

>>712531653
>In TD, RA1 and TS, it was always Nod/Allies that was the underdog
I have replayed RA1 and TS again recently. Nothing even close to that.
Muh mammoth or even heavy tank meme is so exaggerated it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad unless you're legit terrible at the game. There sure are bullshit units for commies but so there are for Allies too.
And in TS it's even better because Orcas are still as bullshit as I remember them from the original (still haven't gotten to replay it this time). Nod's broken good artillery can't shoot up turns out.

Oh, right, you're complaining about Nod being too weak. Well, I could list subterranean APC allowing strikes from unexpected directions, mobile stealth generators breaking that even further, deployed tick tanks being better than titans and a number of other things but I think it would fall on deaf ears.
There are no significant advantages for either faction in either game unless you're really, really bad.

I still think C&C3 doesn't get enough love. Sure, the FMVs were lame compared to those in TS, but the gameplay was fun as fuck.

>>712533492
Hard for many players to view it objectively considering it sucks as a sequel. I avoided that and I can enjoy it as a sort of reboot/spin-off. It's also great for mods.

>>712526658
It's weird how little Cold War stuff there is now, it's all contemporary or set further into the past, WW2 or pre-WW2, very little that focuses on the American capitalism vs Soviet communism dichotomy.

>>712533918
I guess we can't be mean to Russians anymore, anon.

>>712531653
>allies underdog
medium tank spam was and is the bread and butter of MP fags
heavy tank doesn't do double damage despite twin cannons

>>712534084
Are light tanks nerfed or mediums buffed in the patch? I never replay anything but the original release because it's just for revisiting the campaigns and they were good enough on release.

>>712533386
I think most people in this thread are complaining that the RA2 Soviets are underpowered.
And they are, especially after YR.

>>712534201
He specifically mentioned RA1 and TS. I don't remember the C&C that well so I left that out. That's the only case where he might be right because GDI does have lots of good things while Nod has to play very aggressively to leverage the faction's strengths.

>>712533918
I think there might be a fair number of relevant strategy games overall, but the focus is on politics, diplomacy, espionage, tactics, or the nukes.

>>712534076
I think it just doesn't thrill people anymore, capitalism has achieved total victory and an entire generation has grown up that hasn't known anything else, modern conflicts are all about nationalism and squabbling over resources and power.

>>712523226 (OP)
I miss westwood. >>712524230
I did not mind ra3 campness.

>>712533918
rise of nations has a cold war campaign that was decent iirc

>>712526887
>improvement
>by listening to feedback from 300 APM tournament players that have been playing nonstop for twenty years
>turns the campaign into a gookclicker when it's not a commando mission

>>712523226 (OP)
Tiberium Wars is better. I'll die on that hill.

>>712530837
it's almost like RA2 is a terribly balanced game...

>>712535107
It has the same problem as RA2: it's a much better game mechanically but a bad sequel. It's better and worse respectively too.

I fucking hate Tim Curry's SPACE scene now because whenever C&C comes up in a topic, brainrotten zoomers quote that fucking scene, instead of mentioning literally anything else from C&C.

>>712535304
The problem with Tiberium Wars is that it really wants to turn back the clock and be Tiberian Dawn again while at the same time moving the story forward. And in the end it just becomes schizofrenic. But the Nod gets the best aesthetic, trooper uniforms (that were updated in KW) aside.

>>712531653
>TS, it was always Nod that was the underdog
1) Build artillery
2) Cover it with anti-aircraft units
3) ??????
4) PROFIT!!!
I literally don't know how to counter this. Only in the FireStorm they also gave artillery (Juggernauts) to GDI, which at least equalized the factions a little. A little, because NOD still had Scorpion Cyborg infantry

>>712533918
I guess the Cold War is a distant memory and an acquired taste by now, while the middle ages, WWII and fantasy are as popular and romantic as ever. Maybe one day it'll make a big comeback as a cursed buzzword, like 'defcon-punk' or something.

We will never get that TS/RA2 remaster, won't we?:(

>>712534385
>TS, it was always Nod that was the underdog
Like I remember NOD mission where you need to destroy Mamonth MKII which is some crazy imba in the story. But nope couple of shots from NOD artillery and poor Mamonth didnt't even had a chance

>>712535709
and thats a good thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UYh22j8JM4

Well, Nod in TS had one advantage over GDI - a cloaking device. That shit was some pure "fuck you". IIRC, you were forced to lug the mobile scanner around with you at all times and then there was 99% chance it'll get blown up by the cloaked Nod artillery.

>>712535464
I remember how EA played with Obama's slogan "Yes, we can". I then thought how cool it was that the game reflected something from the real world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaKziuu1nP4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pduRbz7IbIo

>>712524230
Boobs make everything better. Shut up.

>>712535709
iirc they lost the source code in 2003, so I guess we won't be getting a remaster anytime soon.

>>712523226 (OP)
That's not World in Conflict

>>712535464
That scene probably introduce more people to red alert than any marketing campaign ea ever did
I dislike it for being extremely overused, but I appreciate it for what it is

>>712535709
Why not just make a new CnC?

>>712535487
>But the Nod gets the best aesthetic, trooper uniforms (that were updated in KW) aside.
Ehh. They are nice but I prefer the TS one. Even some of the Renegade's were pretty good too.

>>712535525
You make more harvesters and inefficiently trade your Orcas for the arties. The enemy ceding control over most of the map dooms him.

>>712536524
And experience another C&C4?

>>712535796
It's really vulnerable if unsupported. And yes, mods for TW implement it much better.

>>712536658
We were close to Generals 2

>>712536073
Scout with infantry or with titans and pull them back for repairs. Mobile generators are more difficult to handle but then sensor array has a pretty good radius too so sneaking up on a base with a few of them requires some brainpower too.

>>712536490
>laser Orcas
>Cuban Hind
>Kane used the Chronosphere ever
>Mobius sone of Einstein
>Kane assisted Hitler in original timeline
Source?
>Scrin in the C&C
Do you mean the UFO easter egg?
>ships aren't destroyed when teleported into pools
Why would they? It does expose one of the many retardations connected to "time travel".
>one side is better in RA1 than the other
Retarded.
>mission 3/11
In what?

>>712535075
There are no 300 APM RA2 players to listen to

The real RA litmus test: Hellmarch 1, 2, or 3?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3YzmjmAGoI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyDwuwwlXcQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM9uQ1fqV2I

>>712537447
just 1

>>712537447
1. 2 is nice too.

>>712537695
2 is all "look at me i'm a remix" because they couldn't just reuse it

>>712537447
1 is the best, it's so clean. But 3 > 2

>>712537731
It's a nice spin on it that is more metal than rock. But the original is unsurpassed. Klepacki made plenty of other, completely great different tracks, of course.

Completely different great tracks. I need to stop using the quick reply window.

which command and conquer game you recommend the most? Out of all of them, red alert or not

>>712540338
For what? It will be different for MP, for mods, for setting/story/videos/atmosphere.

>>712540489
gameplay. which ones are the most fun?

>>712540338
2D - RA2
3D - CnC3

>>712524230
>flying blimps
these literally existed irl

>>712540338
C&C Generals

>>712540893
is RA3 bad?

>>712540338
For me it's Tiberian Sun for the top-tier atmosphere, RA 2 for fun factor or C&C 3 for gameplay.

>>712540668
Anons seem to still like RA2 but its flaws became too much for me over the years. EA's "C&C3" is definitely great for gameplay.

>>712530837
Kirov style units are literally useless in every C&C game
Kirov in RA2, Emperor in Generals, Oliphant in BFME, all useless because they're too slow

>>712524230
i like it, it's a video game, devs will want to add weird cool unrealistic shit

>>712541008
Why not C&C Warcraft or C&C Total Annihilation?

>>712541024
...no.
But it's a step back compared to C&C3 IMO. And for every one good idea it introduces, it also adds two bad ones. And it's campy as all fuck.

It still blows my mind that Kane appears at the very last video of Soviet campaign in Red Alert 1

>>712541158
i am fine with the campiness, I head the new faction is gimmicky?

>>712524230
To be clear a blimp that doesn't fly isn't a blimp it's just like a shed.

>>712541352
RA2 is good campiness
RA3 is a soulless attempt to recapture the magic

>>712541352
Very. It's not as batshit OP as the Yuri faction in Yuri's Revenge, but it does have that "we are making shit up as we go along" feel to it, to the point it feels a bit disjointed.

>>712541495
I see, lore wise(i know, caring about lore in these games of all things) but still lore wise are they the most advanced?

>>712524230
>with flying blimps
My god

>>712541562
They have a naval unit which is kind of like a mobile base that transforms into a giant flying head that is FIRING MAH LAZOR!
They also have archers with energy bows. I forget whether entirety of the bow is made of energy or only the drawstring. But at least it's not bear cannons I guess.

>>712541562
Yeah, as per Japanese stereotypes. I hope you like anime technologies.

Does anyone remember that the Scrin were a faction in C&C 3?
Does anyone care that the Scrin were a faction in C&C 3?

>>712541835
scrin were a mistake

>>712533492
Literally the only thing wrong with the gameplay was the decision to go with specific limited locations for ore refineries.

If they had ore fields and collectors like previous games it would be drastically improved.

>>712541835
I liked them :c

>>712541760
bear cannons are funny, seriously are gdi and the allies the only factions with no goofy shit?
>>712541761
they have psychic shit too

>>712542016
>and the allies the only factions with no goofy shit?
You forgot about the war dolphins?
>they have psychic shit too
Like I said - anime technology.

>>712542105
wait i thought the dolphins were for the soviets?

>>712541835
It's a pretty big event in both human campaigns. And yes, they were really controversial. I don't exactly hate them but they're underwhelming. TE made them somewhat better but it's still off.

>>712542005
Sure, I can see that. But for me, they were just so fucking generic I keep forgetting they are in the game. It doesn't help that they are just giant bugs with no memorable unit designs or quotes.

>>712542230
not him but I always liked their biomehanical designs

>>712542016
>bear cannons are funny
I'm sure something like fart jokes can be funny too. I guess I just can't get into the right mindset.

>>712542214
Dolphins were the Allies. Soviets had giant squids (in RA2, I don't remember what they had in RA3).
Lt Eva can't believe it either.

>>712542230
>with no memorable unit designs
Not in my experience.

>>712530837
ITS COOL YOU RETARD

>>712542354
In RA3 Allies still use dolphin while Soviet got the tesla boat that can walk on land.

>>712542315
no i meant like, their harmless who cares?

>>712526887
Pic not related

>>712536271
Boobs are a cheap way to appeal to niggers like you without actually improving the game

I for one am VERY ticked off that the Apocalypse tank in RA3 no longer has any anti-air capabilites.
The whole point of Mammoth/Apocalypse tank was that it is a workhorse unit that has counters for everything, but is insanely expensive to produce to balance out the firepower.

>>712542571
They are somehow more retarded and repulsive than cryo-whatever and shrinko-whatevers. Which is impressive in and of itself.

>>712543221
but those are standard high tech gadgets in most sci fi settings

>>712542665
VERY related, brother

>>712536816
>bioware was making Generals 2
it was ogre before it even began.

>>712542016
Is that just the Bullfrog launching the bear or you mean the elephant size Ursa Major that is campaign-only?

>>712543454
>magical shrinkinator that works because shut up
>standard in anything
You're just attempting to troll at this point but it is so pathetic it's looping all the way around.

Which factions would do better if they got dropped into Gear of War?
GDI/Nod or Allies/Soviet/Empire?

>>712543678
I am really not man, it's just that in most cartoony sci fi settings that sort of shit is there, why does it matter if the game has them, it clearly doesn't take itself seriously

RUBBER SHOES IN MOTION

>>712537447
I like 2.

>>712542016
>dual welding jetpack soldiers
>teleporting man with a gun that back to the future erases you
>regular tree

>>712545206
I think only the time stuff are silly, a jetpack guy is a bit grounded(lol) compared to cyborg squids and anime mechas or literal aliens or a giant robot that can pull vehicles and attach their parts to upgrade itself

>>712545446
...but cyborg squids were in RA2. Also, remember flying saucers in YR?
Why are we even discussing the techological plausibilities of units in a fucking RA game?

>>712543839
Definitely allies/soviet/empire since they can time travel and stop the entire plot.

>>712545446
or almost everything from yuri's faction

>>712545446
Literal aliens are more grounded than a jetpack guy because they're still a complete unknown. Jetpacks were tried and found wanting.
Also funny how despite the extreme retardation that is avatar upgrading the backflipping giant robots with katanas are still more retarded.

>>712545565
I am not, I am just saying it's normal for these games to be goofy, some anons were complaining about how silly some of the units are

>>712541004
And were phased out as weaponry during WW1.

>>712545446
A dedicated jetpack battalion in what, 1970? Is pretty whacky, plus they've got robot hover tanks and giant apcs driven by drunken Scotsmen that can just roll over the biggest soviet tank in YR.

>>712537447
1 obviously

Constructed a tesla coil.
Stay the fuck away from my post.

Red Alert 4 when?

>>712545792
anon they have more advanced shit than the jetpacks, they have time tanks for crying out loud
though the allies and even gdi do focus on fire power over crazier stuff like lasers and whatnot

>>712545694
I wasn't complaining I was disagreeing that allies were a faction without whacky units, I like them.

>>712545605
or Yuri himself.

>it's normal for these games to be goofy
>these games meaning RA2 and RA3
>with a few really retarded exceptions from EA's soft reboot
The old unreliable "haha it's just bideo gayms bro" defence.

>>712545897
you are correct, though they do tone it down a little bit, just a little smidge compared to other factions

>>712545913
I absolutely adore Udo Kier's utterly confused performance.

>>712545919
yes RA is goofy, with or without the cutscenes they still have weird units, who cares?

>>712545897
>>712545984
Do they need to tone it down though?
RA2 was fun and one of the cornerstones of RTS, i've never heard anyone outside of this thread say it was worse off because there are giant squid and dolphins.
RA3 was fun and the campaign was great with big name actors hamming it up.

I don't think it's fair to say Red Alert has ever tried to be grounded and realistic.

>>712526887
good stuff

>every C&C game has amazing campaigns
>but what about online balance?!

>>712546285
doesn't RA1 also have chrono and tesla weapons?

>>712545991
Confused performances have been a C&C staple since Tiberian Sun.
>James Earl Jones trying his hardest to counter Kane's maximum cheese.

>>712546402
The plot from the very beginning was Einstein going back in time and removing Hitler by shaking his hand.

>>712546614
well then where the hell does all of that "not goofy" and "ruined because squids" talk even come from?

>>712546364
Nothing.
I am just forever salty that every friendly online match I had with my buddy ended in my defeat, because I kept PICKING SOVIETS BECAUSE I THOUGHT THEY ARE FUCKING COOL AND HE DELIBERATELY KEPT PICKING ALLIES TO HARDCOUNTER ME I AM NOT MAD JUST DISAPPOINTED IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO IT STILL HURTS
But I'm not angry.

>>712546671
I think you're thinking about someone else.
I literally said
>I don't think it's fair to say Red Alert has ever tried to be grounded and realistic.

Either you misread that or you think i'm someone else in the thread.

>>712530837
You make a fuck ton of them then send them all out to annihilate the enemy base, they can’t destroy them all.

>>712546539
On the other hand Joe Kucan and Frank Zagarino had the time of their lives. I guess being the bad guy is the actor's dream job. You can just ham it up and have fun.

>>712546678
I hate to say this but your buddy was a cunt. I played a lot of Starcraft, Warcraft 2, Age of Empires and Myth with friends and we always did wacky shit but never specifically countered anything at least on purpose. It was more mind games than anything, trying to secretly forge alliances and then maneuver the other guy into a position where you can betray him and still win the game even if all you're doing is massing priests to convert his shit.

>>712546818
no not you specifically, talking in general

>>712546364
>EA trying to cater to the esports audience

>>712546614
Does he make friends with Hitler and avert his villian arc?

>>712523226 (OP)
real talk C&C was always better than WC or SC.
>b-bbut muh balance and e-sport
nobody cares you faggot.

>>712546979
To be fair, Warcraft and Starcraft had some kino campaigns as well. WC3 especially... if you don't think about the plot for too long.

>>712547112
sure, the campaign is great, but Westwood invented the genre. WC1 is literally a hard copy from Dune II.

>>712546937
No and yes.

>>712546882
Yeah, maybe it was him that was the problem. Because we played AoE 2 as well. He kept picking Brits and went on to turtle up and spam a metric fuckton of longbows, so my every attack ended in a slaughterfest.

>>712546869
>Tim Curry when reading the script for RA3

>>712547496
To be fair, he was literally corpsing with every second line he had and the directors didn't even bother with second takes because they knew this is the best they can get out of him.
And he literally starts laughing midway through his infamous SPAAAACE rant.

Is it contrarian to like RA3?
>fun campaign
>great campy cutscenes
>good (but not great) music
>wacky units
>expansion had a fun challenge mode

>>712547726
no, you just have an opinion that not many share
but you like it, it's fine

>>712547726
Never really tried it, how does it compare to RA2? I for example love Tiberium Wars.

>>712547726
Nah, it's fine. IMO, it's not a bad game at all, it's just underwhelming compared to C&C3 and especially RA2.
Also, the campaigns were ridiculously easy and short. A huge step down compared to the looooong C&C3 campaign.

>>712524230
Yeah sure, but the atmosphere was top notch, and that's what matters in a game like C&C.

>>712536816
No we weren't.
The kike in charge of monetization was the same than on shartgate.
What he had planned for Generals2 was literally the main reason the project got canceled.

>>712547669
Makes it even better that he is holding it in just barely

>>712547909
It feels like RA2 but...more, and less serious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAvcxeXtBz0
https://youtu.be/3rrWZ5xYpNs?t=29
You got flying psychic japanese schoolgirls, attack dolphins and a flying head that shoots lasers. But it's somehow a coherent game with solid gameplay.

>>712548203
he would get canceled for that nowadays lol.

>>712547909
For me it's a step down compared to C&C3. It feels simpler and much more streamlined and the campaigns finish before they even start for real.
It's not neccesarily a bad game, but I think EA sacrificed the single player content for that e-sport buck with this one, hence the coop and robust multiplayer and whatnot.
But you get Kelly Hu in a bikini, so there is that.

>>712548267
I still can't get over the fact that Soviets lost their nukes. I get the story reason, but that was kinda their signature superweapon and without it they feel a bit... defanged?

>tfw the female commander of Japan looks so bad that they have to swap her another eyecandy in the Uprising expansion

>>712549160
You mean Kelly Hu? She was already in her 40s by the time RA3 dropped, she can't be an eyecandy forever.
Also, I think every RA3 bridgebunny got replaced? I remember the Allies having a new one as well.

>>712540338
Red Alert 2 is the most fun story.
C&C Generals has the most fun gameplay.

RA2 Tanya was the best, hot but still able to pull off being a tomboy.

>>712549567
Honestly, that's just Kari Wuhrer playing herself.