>"War has changed."
>"War. War never changes."

Which vidya quote is right?

Both

did they get that from fallout and change it slightly or was it just a coincidence

>>712561659 (OP)
War never changes until it does.

>drone blows up your comrade
Yeah, war ha changed

>>712561659 (OP)
Both statements are true.

what is human history if not endless war?

>>712561776
>"War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War – and its consumption of life – has become a well-oiled machine"
>War. War never changes. The Romans waged war to gather slaves and wealth. Spain built an empire from its lust for gold and territory. Hitler shaped a battered Germany into an economic superpower.

They're not similar at all. But the way Hideo Kojima wrote it has more soul, more poetic and packs a lot of punch behind the lines.

How to fight a war and reasons to fight a war changes constantly, but war itself never changes.

This reminds me of a video of some bald retard that took both quotes and concluded that games are shallow as art. Apparently because they contradict each other(????). He then virtue signaled about reading fucking Lord of the Flies. You know. That fucking book that you read in elementary for class.

>>712561659 (OP)
Both are right.
War never changes talks about how humans will always be in conflict.
Snake's War has changed talks about individual skirmishes how they evolved over time.

They're both overly poetic shallow interchangeable garbage.
Video Games are Video Gay

>>712562401
Yeah, you put it more eloquently than I was going to.
Fallout focuses on the macro
MGS focuses on the detail

>>712562080
I always thought fallouts intro was way more well written

>>712562279
who?

>>712561659 (OP)
>The means people use to wage war have changed, with proxy warfare and machines fighting most of the battles.
>The reasons people have to wage war will not and have not changed. Greed, wrath, and lust drive mans soul to wage war against his fellow man.

>>712561659 (OP)
>fallout nv 1 and 2 talks about the fall of mankind and how people will still be killing each other no matter what situation they're in even in a desolate wasteland

>Bethesda fallout intros just say war never changes because war never changes

I wanna beat up Emile and cancel the tv show

>>712562080
This but the exact opposite.

>>712562837
I guess you didn't play past the intro. That's fine but refrain from shitposting about it please.

>>712562984
>this post has been removed
what the utter fuck lmao

>>712562984
I hate that place so god damn much.

>>712562904
I did play past the intros
4 and 3 are just recycled shit from the last games without anything new or interesting

It has been settled
https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/14qkr7e/which_statement_is_right/

>>712561659 (OP)
I'll be the faggot centrist

''The more things change, the more they stay the same. Boundaries shift, new players step in; but power always finds a place to rest its head.''

>>712562984
The explanation the tv show gives for the war is possibly the most retarded piece of writing I've ever suffered.

>>712562837
War. War never changes.
Since the dawn of humankind, when our ancestors first discovered the killing power of rock and bone, blood has been spilled in the name of everything: from God to justice to simple, psychotic rage.

In the year 2077, after millennia of armed conflict, the destructive nature of man could sustain itself no longer. The world was plunged into an abyss of nuclear fire and radiation.

But it was not, as some had predicted, the end of the world. Instead, the apocalypse was simply the prologue to another bloody chapter of human history. For man had succeeded in destroying the world - but war, war never changes.

In the early days, thousands were spared the horrors of the holocaust by taking refuge in enormous underground shelters, known as vaults. But when they emerged, they had only the hell of the wastes to greet them - all except those in Vault 101. For on that fateful day, when fire rained from the sky, the giant steel door of Vault 101 slid closed... and never reopened. It was here you were born. It is here you will die.

Because, in Vault 101: no one ever enters, and no one ever leaves.

yeah it's pretty weak.

the fallout quote doesn't even make sense outside of the first game.

>>712561659 (OP)
The means of war change, but the basis doesnt

>>712561659 (OP)
top sounds stupid
bottom is just straight up false

I enjoy all the quotes.

>>712561659 (OP)
>War has changed: war hasn't become safer with technology, it's now dystopic where soldiers are desensitize to violence with the use of drones, and getting groomed into recruitment through video games like Call of Duty
>War never changed: pseudo-intellectual meaningless nothingburger that means nothing more than "violence IS violence"
I like to meme on Kojiumbo, but he's actually a creatividad on this one

>>712564534
Fucking this. So much this.

I feel like both could be justified under different reasoning, arguing that the basis of upon why war is waged being the same, but the methods in which it has been fought has changed.
Like, simply looking at the Russia : Ukraine situation, we're seeing mass deployment of drones with HD camera footage bringing the gruesome nature of war to your living room, but at the core of it, it's a landgrab for mineral rights, bodies, and expanding territory.

>>712561659 (OP)
one world has dead canadians and the other has 2 legged robot cows

>>712564787
>and the other has 2 legged robot cows
God I love Kojimbo

>>712564534
I like how you wrote your own version to make kojima's writing not as shit

>>712562080
midwit take. and kojima was wrong like he often is, romans like Livy and Tacitus were bitching about soulessness of war

>>712562080
>"War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War – and its consumption of life – has become a well-oiled machine"
Kojima wrote that? that's actually a good quote. And proxy battles he's 100% right even today, moreso than over a decade ago.

>>712562984
Lmao redditors are such faggots

Kojima cucks convinced themselves death stranding was good, they will eat up anything that comes flying out his ass

>>712563893
Interplay Fallout
>war never changes because people will always feel the need to take power and hold resources for themselves, and the ones starting the war always think they'll be the ones to win it.

Bethesda Fallout
>war never changes because folks just LOVE killing, y'know!

>>712564534
I see footage from Ukrane, where fields are covered with hundereds thousands of miles of fiber optic cable, to defeat EMF jammmers, and think about what kojima said.

I know exactly what the buzz of a suicide drone sounds like now.

>>712562984
how is Reddit still up, it's the most antifun website I've ever seen and everyone walks on eggshells

most posts start with an apology

>>712565349
>Has never made one bad game
>Never been in one controversy
>Still manages to make gamers seethe

>>712564534
the top one is a nothingburger statement too. even less meaning to it because it's just saying war isn't fought for nations which is so wrong it's brain damaged

>>712564534
I think the drone footage has had the unintentional effect of showing what war really is and how your life can end at the hands of a flying dish

if anything it has turn people off from war and anything like it, nobody wants to go on a ditch to wait until they get drone strike'd

>>712565605
>Has never made one bad game
Do Kojima cucks really? Death stranding was the most fart huffingly pretentious walking simulator ever created

>>712565556
It's funded by goverment and certain political parties.
>>712565753
It also makes me DEEPLY CONCERNED that the us has no manufacturing anymore, and that one country holds almost every single card when it comes to drone manufacturing.

>>712565697
>he thinks the wars being fought on behalf of the military-industrial complex are being fought for their home nations' benefit

>>712562080
so fucking cringe midwit takes, almost to the level of the "I am euphoric" reddit quote

They're both right but are talking about War in different scopes. MGS is about micro-level war. The battles, fights, tactics and weapons used in war have changed. Fallout's quote is about war on a macro scale. Wars are, and always will be, fought by those less fortunate to "defend" ideals of those in power. Countless deaths and endless suffering for a supposed "cause" that has no effect on the common man.

>>712565917
midwit alert

>>712563996
it kinda does, people still fight for the same reasons the world ended

>>712565889
>Walking simulator
>Has driving
>Stealth mechanics
>Shooting mechanics
>Manage and protect cargo
>Crafting mechanics
>Still have to fight BT's and other soldiers
>Various obstacles throughout the entire game

This meme again. You guys just steal the opinions of others and pretend you thought of it yourself. That's like 90% of all the Kojima haters.

>>712566076
MGS fans are well familiar with micro sized things

>>712563893
yeah it is

>>712566290
Oh wow it has stealth and crafting, crazy. Now tell me what you do most of the game? You walk

>>712566417
>Oh wow it has stealth and crafting, crazy. Now tell me what you do most of the game? You walk
Just wait until you find out that the majority of games requires you to move your character

>>712566496
>>712566290
I kinda agree that while it does have those things, it tends to be more cinematic than it needs to be
it's like they make good mechanics but it feels like they don't use them as often as they should

>>712561659 (OP)
MGS is correct, there is zero chance of a Fallout style nation state war and natural resources are too fungible to matter
the most valuable material on earth is TSMC microchips made pointlessly on a pacific island because the right people live there

>>712566703
also, in Fallout the world ended before they got the technology to do things like they do in MGS
both quotes work for each of the contexts they exist in

>>712566628
>I kinda agree that while it does have those things, it tends to be more cinematic than it needs to be
It's really not though. One of the only creative video game directors/producers/writer or whatever that manages to be able to make games cinematic without forgetting it's crucial part of what makes a video game, a video game. You still gotta prioritize and manage lots of equipment, worrying about enemeis trying to steal your shit. BT's trying to hunt and kill you. It's a dangerous world in DS.

You want pure cancer movie games? Go play The Last of Us, it's nothing like Hideo Kojima's games, which these retards like to lump together for some odd reason.

>>712561659 (OP)
They're both right but MGS4 is more right. The reason being that the essence of "War Never Changes" is that humanity's inherent tendency for violence means that no matter what else happens, there will be war. As a result, war is a constant in history. But the thing is that in MGS4, it turns out that the endless wars in the future have nothing to do with man's violent nature but instead with an AI that is trying to control the world through a global war economy. Every war is a proxy fought by machines and mercenaries representing a number in some grand statistical model created by artifical intelligence. There is very little humanity left in it. You could argue whether it could even be considered a "war" in the same sense as we traditionally see one. So the Fallout prediction is still right in MGS4 but for the wrong reasons. The nature of War has fundamentally changed to a point where it has almost nothing to do with the human traits that originally defined its permanence.

>>712561659 (OP)
The MGS quote is very specific to the details of the setting, which is why the Fallout one is quoted infinitely more.

>>712566989
it's really depressing when you realize how fucking close we are to that point or how we are already kinda there without the AI part

>>712562448
This

>>712566989
Just to clarify. The reason MGS4 is right is not because it's not about nations or ideologies anymore, or even because of profiteering and the war economy. These things are nothing new. It's right because the entire thing has become a controlled process driven by an algorithm. Hatred, patriotism, greed, fear, all the things that drove people to go to war before. They do not factor into it anymore. If you remove the mercenaries and make it all drones, you just have a machine fighting against itself endlessly so it can justify building more guns.

>>712567154
We've been there for a long, LONG time, you can find endless historic writings on how the evolution of combat from edged weapons to ranged weapons to cavalry to guns to artillery dehumanized war and made it soulless.

>>712562723
I just remember the avatar. It was a bald dude with piercings and a black tshirt. I think

>>712561659 (OP)
kojima was right but fallout 1 is the better game

The reasons for war never change but the way they are fought, do