If someone plays a Soulsborne game without looking up any lore/wiki/fan discussions and walks away with near zero understanding of what the story of the game actually was, is that the player's fault or the game's fault?
One of my friends has gotten very frustrated with me lately for 100%-ing the Dark Souls trilogy without really understanding its story, or even remembering the names of most "important" bosses. He insists that I'm not really engaging with the games, but I insist that I only get what the games give me. Who's wrong?

The dev's fault for being too lazy to write coherent lore.

>>712702226 (OP)
Objectively it's the game's fault if the player can't even form a basic idea of what the fuck is going on and why, provided that the player isn't some drooling retard. It's also not the player's responsibility to engage with the existing lore bits to actually piece together the basic plot as long as it's not actually essential to complete the game.
I'm still tempted to call you a faggot for just blowing past shit without caring, but I do get why.

>>712702226 (OP)
player's fault, i got a vague idea of what was going on just from the intro in DS3, and that was my first souls game, then by playing the game i figure it was some post apocalyptic thing and so

>>712702226 (OP)
>One of my friends has gotten very frustrated with me lately for 100%-ing the Dark Souls trilogy without really understanding its story
once upon a time, there was darkness + dragons chillin n shit. then one day, fire. the fire gave a few specific people the power to be gods. they weren't satisfied with this though, they wanted more, so they decided to go to war with the dragons. they fought hard and actually won, and as time passed the realized they had a problem; the fire was dying. they need it, though! the fire is what gives them strength. so they cooked up various schemes to keep it going and most of them were a failure, until one of them sacrificed himself to keep the flame alight. those he left behind saw this and they devised a scheme to get retards to willingly sacrifice themselves to the flame in order to keep it going perpetually. this worked for a while until the world started unraveling at the seams, as the end of all things is an inevitability that can't be forever postponed.

---

aeons later in another kingdom/same universe, implications are implied that undeath happens when humans fuck with the abyss so they can have more power, and the world resets in perpetuity when this problem reaches its natural conclusion

---

aeons later in another kingdom/same universe, the forsaken ash are awakening to answer the call of the bell because the lords of cinder are neglecting their duties; thus proving that even those ostracized by fate are fit to bring lords to their knees and meet their destiny at the end of the world.

it's not that hard to understand.

>>712702226 (OP)
100% user error to care bout this shit because none of these are story games, they do not need a coherent narrative to drive the gameplay forward. I've played all of them and I only remember what happened in DS2 from my own findings. The rest I learned by osmosis from talking to people about the game.
It would be a glaring fault if these were "real" rpgs where story matters and you make meaningful choices that impact what is happening (sure, you can get different endings, but you know what I mean)

>>712702226 (OP)
Sekiro is the only good game in that image.

The games are clearly meant for replays, at least up until Sekiro. Blowing through 1-3 isnt going to give the same value as actually soaking in and trying new builds

100% a game isn't enjoying it by the way, you're not immersing yourself to enjoy an experience you're trying to "beat" it for chievos and cred

Sorry I'm too busy hitting the enemies with a giant metal stick than to spend my brain cells on some item lore

>>712702226 (OP)
I don't know. It feels like there's some sexual tension between you fucking faggots. You should both kys yourselves.

>>712702226 (OP)
Your friend is a fag. The lore's there if you want it, or not. I love these games but personally I don't care about Zanzibart either.

OP is refusing to play sherlock holmes with the clues, for him, these games aren't mystery detective games.
I remember hating bloodborne a bit until i understood what was going on. Without that lore and context i found it more boring.
Sekiro's context was more straightforward and i understood it without any investigative work but i didn't find it interesting as a plot.
In the end it's a cool story that i love, no matter who tells it, as long as it's well told. If the game won't tell it to me then somebody else will tell me a bedtime story.

>>712702226 (OP)
You aren't giving enough information to make a proper judgment call.
Let's just start with DaS1. What information did you get from its plot?

>>712704054
Land plagued by undead curse, kill the bosses to link the fire (though I'm not clear on the connection between these events). I don't remember the name of the mustache snake or why I rang the bells or who exactly I was killing along the way. Nobody repeats themselves and I sure as shit wasn't writing anything down. The thing that really pissed off my friend was not knowing the name of the knight in the DLC, the one that throws purple stuff at you.

>>712702226 (OP)
You don’t need to get the lore to enjoy the games. That's why they're real games unlike cinematic movie "games"

>>712704495
there are two mustache snakes, one is kingseeker frampt and the other is darkstalker kaathe. frampt wants you to collect the remnants of the lord souls and use them to open the kiln of the first flame, and then usurp lord gwyn for the sake of kindling the first flame. kaathe wants you to do the opposite; snuf out the flame and usher in an age of dark.

you are ringing the bells as a sort of pilgrimage, so you can reach the gilded anor londo and retrieve the lordvessel from gwynevere, who is the daughter of gwyn, and who wants you to do what frampt says (die for israel er uh I mean anor londo).

the knight in the dlc is artorias of the abyss, he is one of gywn's four dragonslayers, who braved the abyss to defeat manus the primeval but failed miserably. you effectively put him out of his misery.

>>712704495
You rang the bells to fulfill the last request of Oscar, the person that freed you from your cell, which he did part of a prophecy he believed in.

>>712702226 (OP)
If we're talking about the lore given by dumb item descriptions, who cares. Shit has no bearing in game and is sometimes even altered in different versions/patches. There's no weight to it and I find it amazing how Vaati and others managed to make a careers out of something so vapid.

>>712702226 (OP)
>des
player's fault, the intro tells you everything you need to know really
>das1
Player's fault, you only need to listen to 3 npcs to understand the main plot of das. the intro lady, oscar and frampt.
>das2 and das3
50/50, the stories are worse and the npcs are harder to grasp, but as long as you talk to most npcs you can get what is going on.
>bb
From's fault, bb has a good story but most npc's will tell you fuck all that is useful to understand the main plot, most revelations are actually in fucking easily missable paper pieces
>sekiro
player's fault, so many fucking forced npc conversations you have to be a retard to not get the main plot
>er
25/75 on From's part, same problem as das2 and 3, but the world is even fucking bigger and some main plot points make no fucking sense
>AC6
Outside of the last ending, player's fault.

>>712702226 (OP)
Player fault
The collective IQ is all time low and even when the games explain things directly people fail to understand it

>>712702226 (OP)
even if you learn whats going on in the lore, dont tell him and play dumb

let him seethe forever about how you are playing videogames wrong

>>712702226 (OP)
Story being there doesn't have to mean you need to engage with it unless the game is very narrative heavy which those aren't.
I think Micheal Zaki is on record saying that he wants people to make their own story anyway

>>712708039
Wrong

Sekiro and AC6 both have a plot told you through characters you WILL talk to.
At most you'll get a shit end.

>>712702307
its actually a genius way to force the player to interact with the community. Millions of soulsfaggots watch mechanics and lore explanation vids which helps spread word of mouth

>>712702226 (OP)
I like it because it filters retards out of a story and requires being observant and actually smart, while also giving to the locations and settings a lot of character.
It's interesting how when Miyazai got a lot more control over the work the lore started relying a lot more on iconography and repetition of specific metaphysical concepts with their own lingo and terminology as well as straight up historical references.

>>712702226 (OP)
>not really engaging with the games
Are you actually, you know... paying attention and reading stuff.

If players can't beat the game, it's the dev's fault.
If players can't understand the story, it's the dev's fault.