Now that it's over, what went wrong?

as always, the playerbase

>>712976905 (OP)
you posting

>>712976905 (OP)
Glad you asked OP.
>OP runes/abilities made the game more retail minus than classic plus
>abhorrent pvp balance that made the game not very fun if you werent specific classes.
Things like druids being given what was basically a pom pyro tier spell on a 6 second cooldown that cost no mana was a little over the top. leveling on a pvp server is suppose to be fun for people other than druids, keep in mind druids were already top tier world pvp class in classic.
>quest design was often terrible and needed 3rd party websites to tell you where to find things and you would spend over an hour just ruuning back and forth.
this was cool when you were lvl 16 doing druid travel form for the first time experiencing new zones but its lame as fuck when you are max level and backtracking through old areas to right click an NPC one time then run back across the entire world then having to run back again. ONe quest for the raid epic had me do like 1 hour and half of just running around the world while reading a website on where to go next because it was literally impossible to figure out on your own as the game gave no hint that one of the things you needed was underwater in a zone 30 minutes away from the quest giver
>those incursions
just terribly designed. i could write a huge essay on just this, i dont even know where to start. blizzard SHOULD be fucking paying me to roast them on this but i dont feel like writing more

>>712976905 (OP)
>Auto-report weaponised by 3rd world cartels which enables:
>Rampant botting which causes:
>Rampant gold selling which causes:
>Rampant GDKP which causes:
>Literal death of leveling and gearing up experience.
All supported by dadgamers who'd rather spend their day off doing overtime at work in order to buy everything rather than play the game. Why? Because it's a faster and more efficient way to reach end-game. Why such obsession over end-game? Because blizzard groomed both them and the general MMO landscape through FOMO and "latest patch>previous patch" game design.

I don't think blizzard understands what the community means by Classic+.
Not that it matters when you have private servers offering better services and Blizzard not giving a fuck on botting and RMT.

>>712976979
Zoomer, to be precise

the retail-ified class design and catch-up is what ruined it. You should never be able to get tier gear from a vendor

Turtle WoW would be perfect if they didn't also add in shit like those retarded flying cloud mounts and put the pre-patch TBC talent trees in

I played the entire length of it. The main problem was they never had an actual vision for what SoD was beyond the first phase. They were just using it as a testing ground by throwing shit at the wall and seeing what stuck.

>>712978878
Please stop pretending like those silly mounts are common. If anything, it's the giant Gnomeragan robot mounts that litter the landscape. Talents are fine as well because turns out retail had the right idea until Cata/MoP.

Turns out it's the same Blizz applying the same "lessons" they learned that turned WoW into what retail now over 20 years.
It's actually scary how fast they defaulted back to lazy invasion events as filler content and shit like badge gear and catch up buffs.

Add that the loudest voice in across all WoW game modes are retail andys who can't stand the thought missing out on new, original WoW content even if the game mode wasn't meant to cater to them and I see no way that Classic+ will be good.

>>712979335
badge gear is fine when it's just pre-bis and nothing else

buy an ad maye

>>712976905 (OP)
pozzard is unable to make a good videogame
not that it matters to you cultists

>>712979432
That kind of badge gear is also bad because it invalidates world epics, dungeon drops, proffesion crafts and reputation rewards. The proper solution is a game design that rewards geared players for helping out players that are still gearing up. Stuff like Stratholme Holy Water, ZG shoulder enchants and Alchemy Lab in Scholo are good examples. They force geared players to return to places they already completed to get their neccesary consumables for end-game. Same places also happen to be ran by lesser geared players so they might as well help them out.

>>712976905 (OP)
Just play Turtle if you want Classic+.

>>712980294
I don't recall the badge pre-bis in TBC being better than prof crafts nor did it invalidate dungeon gear or rep rewards. It was more of a compliment to the loot system than invalidating anything. Maybe this changed later on in wows life but badge gear at first was well designed

>>712980451
It was definetly the case in WotLK where you could get previous tier sets for Emblems which dropped from running WotLK heroics. That being said it was still a reasonably good solution because Dungeon Finder funneled geared and gearing up players together.

>>712980693
yeah, like I said, badge gear is fine when it's worse than raid gear. The problem is letting people buy raid quality purples and tier gear with it

blizzard doesn't have any actual game devs in their team to make a video game resembling anything like classic + with unique content

when does tbc come out? I wouldn't mind doing tier 4 again

I still LOL at the 75% Rockbiter nerf

>>712976905 (OP)
It's 2025 and not 2005

>>712980741
We could still have that by making all emblem drops dependant on your raid progress. Example: If you defeated all bosses in Ulduar then all Heroics dungeons, Naxxaramas and VoA bosses would now drop Ulduar Emblems. Geared players would have reasons to revisit previous raids to stock up on emblems and gear up quickly while new players would get help from geared players in completing content they haven't done yet.

Blizzard has no idea how to make WoW good or how to develop content that fits into Vanilla WoW's design, and anyone who thought otherwise is a total retard. The only fuckers dumber than the Classic+ crowd are the Warcraft 4 crowd.

>>712976979
Now that's a fpbp if I ever done seen one

>>712978652
>Rampant botting
I don't care if they pay subs, if you don't weed out bots as fast as you fucking can they will devour your community, your economy, and eventually they'll more or less run the game itself (except for hosting the server).

This is shit we knew nearly 20 years ago. Hackers, multi-boxers, auto farmers, etc. for all of them there has to be a zero tolerance policy. I don't care how you enforce it. Someone running in and out of dungeons clearing the exact same mobs with the exact same spells? Turn off loot or make everything in the instance junk worth 1 copper.

>>712978770
>I don't think blizzard understands what the community means by Classic+.
The community doesnt understand what they mean by Classic+

>>712976905 (OP)
They went way WAY too far with it to the point it didn't even remotely resemble the classic wow anymore

They need to stop focusing everything on raids. Vanilla WoW has a raid logging and economy problem. Its not a game that can sustain its own ecosystem. These are the problems they need to address by making playing in the actual world fun.

>>712980294
Why would a modern hyper optimization mmo players "help" low geared randoms? That kind of content is done with the members of your guild and raid group so you can skip everything extra in the dungeon with only that goal in mind.

>>712983254
Those people that populated MMORPGs in 2004 aren't ever coming back though. In 2025 one type of person plays old school MMORPGs: hardcore raiders that are out to get themselves best-in-slot everything because of autism. They will happily pay botters real money if it gets them closer to BiS, otherwise why would botters waste their time?

Exploration? Socializing? World building? Relics of the past.

They swapped the bottom text (unironically)

>>712984110
letting that fat kike aggrend who mains ret paladin be in charge of class balance was a fucking disaster

>>712976905 (OP)
>giving money to blizzard
lol
lmao

>>712982256
Unfathomably based.

>>712982256
The bots weren't even bothering to hide it, through all of classic it was enough to do /who z-"Zul'Farrak" c-"Mage" and you'd get a list of dozens of bots with names like Mvmclsfdoe.
A single GM could ban thousands of bots daily if they cared at all.

>>712984110
I preferred wiping raids over wearing that gay ass robe
I only wore mail and plate on my holy paladin

>>712976905 (OP)
>what went wrong?
Modern blizzard made it. I'm just waiting for epoch.

>>712984110
>t.

>>712985202
nobody cares pinky

>>712984773
I remember seeing a rust admin have some cool thing he could apply to hackers where they dealt damage to themselves instead of enemies, couldn't pick anything up and would randomly drop their weapon instead of banning them so the game was unplayable for them.
Doing something like that to botters to fuck with them would be funny.

>>712976905 (OP)
>Massive pvp imbalance
>relatively long wait times between phases when the only new thing was a single revamped dungeon raid
>incursions fucking up the economy and leveling experience causing a lot of people to lose interest
>releasing 20th anniversary classic and cata classic which siphoned players away
At least it was very fun in the beginning.

>>712985841
If they were to put a bit of effort into it, they could make a system that e.g. lets the bot play, but whenever he tries to transfer his shit, it all gets deleted and the person it was transferred to gets flagged as probably-chink as well.
After a couple weeks of increased GM load, surviving chinks would at least have to get much more creative with their bullshit, which would cut into their profit margins and reduce the scale of botting.

>>712976905 (OP)
They just took classic and designed it like a retail season, which is why retail is so shit and why people prefer to play on classic servers in the first place.

Nothing added by SOD added to the experience that was classic WOW, did vanilla need more weekly lockout based bullshit?

Everything about SOD, like retail WOW, is designed to hamstring your progression, because the devs can't properly pace their content and are worried nolifers are going to nolife their game, but in doing so they absolutely kneecap casual players, all while adding in "QOL" updates that invalidates any progress you make in the first place.

I knew SOD was doomed when they said that they were going to make BFD a raid and cap levels to BFD, which means that the next update will just invalidate everything you do simply because you level past your BFD gear.

All they really needed to do was add in new zones, and new BRD sized end game dungeons, with content designed for everyone not just raiders, litterally any classic remix is a chance of doing something actually interesting for once and all they did was make retail styled vanilla.

>>712976905 (OP)
everything

>>712983747
Doesnt stop people from still playing EVE

>>712976905 (OP)
Third party information and communication sources have made it impossible to have an organic mmo community anymore.

>>712976905 (OP)
There were some aspects that I enjoyed, but the fact that I left after the first phase and never came back tells you that I didn't care for the additions. The current dev team simply doesn't have a proper vision of the game and it shows.

>>712976905 (OP)

Blizzard being usual Blizzard is what went wrong. It sucks too, because it was fun as fuck at first. But with each phase being launched Blizz found so many different ways to fuck it up. I quit around Phase 3.

Crazy that SPP seems like the only way to prevent the scourge of botting.

>Blizzard sent Epoch a cease & desist
Good God they're smart enough to recognize a threat but stupid enough to not implement vanilla+ content themselves.

>>712976905 (OP)
nightmare incursions and molten core difficulty modes killed it for me, just started to feel like retail and i stopped caring

>>712978829
why do they always ruin everything?

>>712985841
>generate false invisible resource nodes
>gathering these fills your inventory with worthless items that can't be deleted

>>712976905 (OP)
Nothing except Shamans, Hunters and Moonkins.

>>712979335
>retail andys
andys? what does that mean?

>try to change the classic formula
>ruin it completely

they don't have the talent to improve it so they shouldn't bother.

>>712993181
Shadow priest. Making it a fucking zookeeper spec was the last straw for me

Hours after launch, I was seeing advertisements for boosting services.
On fucking launch day I was seeing bot trains literally fly through stormwind.
Regretting subbing to try it out immediately.
I picked warlock as did many others for the tanking spec they got, and immediately at like hour 3 they were malding and sneething and crying to the game's jannies that they didn't immediately get told where the new stuff is.
So basically, what went wrong is that it was actually kind of decent if you like wow(it was better than classic/vanilla imo at least) but an mmo can never be a good rpg again while still having mass appeal, too many retards have been groomed out of having any sense of exploration whatsoever. Only a truly imaginative person can turn numbers and code into a wide world of secrets and intrigue to explore, and only a true retard can spend every ounce of effort to reduce it back to soulless numbers and code.

>>712977264
>>712976905 (OP)
>OP runes/abilities made the game more retail minus than classic plus
My biggest issue with SoD was at the start runes were meant just to fill in the gaps in a class' playstyle, like giving Warriors a modicum of survivability or Druids/Paladins an actual ability to press in combat. But as soon as Phase 2 it was clear that that was NOT the intent by the devs, and they just were wholesale porting retail abilities and talents into the game to make what were essentially simplified versions of retail playstyles, but in vanilla content.

>>712981797
>Geared players would have reasons to revisit previous raids to stock up on emblems and gear up quickly while new players would get help from geared players in completing content they haven't done yet
All this would do would make it so players who have cleared Ulduar would never group with people who hadn't, basically forming two groups of haves or have-nots within the community.
>LF3M H UP need tank/heals, must be Ulduar complete or kick
>LF1M Naxx 10 Saph/KT need heal, get your quick emblems! Whisper Ulduar complete acheive for invite
>LFM VOA speedclear, last boss only! Need plate/mail classes, come to Dal fountain for inspect of ulduar acheive for invite
>+++SELLING ULDUAR FULL CLEAR+++ Come get your emblem access, quick fast for you CHEAP, $10USD/kill FAST AND AFFORD