Why are there so few Hitman clones?

You’d think that sandbox murder sims would be a popular genre to explore.

Level design is hard.

Because it sucks without investment? We already know almost everything about agent 47 because of the past games, so its easy to just make gameplay >>>>>> narrative.
Other devs would need to tell a narrative to entice people and get you hooked which would destroy any gameplay elements that would be aped from IOIs horrible hitman series.

>>712978698
this, Blood Money was a complete freak accident, like someone spilling SOUL into the ocean siphoned from every single game dev alive at the time.
Some levels in WoA get close,
Paris, Miami, India, Mendoza
but a lot of them suck, plus, they removed the 2000s bolt-ons and edge so a lot of the NPCs look unimaginably boring.

>>712978797
>Other devs would need to tell a narrative to entice people

“Assassin killing people for money and/or personal reasons” is all you really need. That’s effectively what Hitman itself boils down to. The rest is lore that you don’t need to engage with unless you want to.

People play Hitman for the gameplay, level design and player freedom, so you only need that to reasonably compete with Hitman.

You would need people experienced in designing these types of games and most of them work for IOI.

>>712978797
I don't think anyone plays hitman because they're just so super duper invested in the narrative. Like it's neat but it's not the draw. It's pushing people into trash compactors.

>>712979508
Theoretically, a dev like Rockstar could probably do it if they weren’t so obsessed with linear and cinematic mission design. I imagine that Arkane Studios and the more talented devs at Ubisoft could do it too.

>>712978502 (OP)
>Why are there so few Hitman clones?

He killed most of them.

Because making a game like Hitman is hard, even IOI took a long time before they got consistently good. Most devs today are barely even capable of making generic open world slop, let alone something like this.

>>712978698
Yeah, that's basically the only reason. Even linear Hitman games like Absolution have a big amount of details and stuff to fuck around with, some random low budget dev like old City Interactive wouldn't be able to rush a clone like that out.

>>712979082
>Blood Money was a complete freak accident
I disagree. IO had already shown they can design good levels with the previous three Hitman games. It just took some time to make a game where all levels are great. All of the first four Hitman games came out in like 6 years anyway. God I want to go back to that era of gaming.

>>712980471
WoA is the most consistently good Hitman game by far. Even Blood Money had some dud levels like Death of a Showman and Amendment XXV.

Meanwhile, the worst levels in WoA are Colorado and Carpathian Mountains, and they’re only considered bad because the other levels simply set the bar so high. As levels judged on their own merits, they’re okay.

>>712979318
>>712979585
You say that because you know 47.
The past 3 ioi hitmen were garbage and botched beyond bullshit. It took almost a decade for them to release a decent game. This is a no mans sky sort of cope by stans. Nobody wants to make games like this because theyre not worth it. Without agent 47, youd have 0 incentive to play iois abortions.

noone does it better

>>712981178
Noone does it, period.

>>712978502 (OP)
>You must put in a shitload of effort into level design, graphics, and stealth gameplay to have a shot at 10k concurrent players

>>712978502 (OP)
yandere simulator is still being worked on, somehow

>>712980709

WOA killed previous installments for me. I'd play blood money every year, but haven't touched it since HITMAN 2016 was released. Shame, since I loved the the atmosphere in that game; the new hitman just kills it in gameplay and QOL.

>>712981341
>somehow

It was a victim of feature creep because Yanderedev is a retard with no self-control. It pivoted mid development from a Blood Money clone to a Persona clone. Classic example of what happens when an amateur dev lacks discipline.

>>712981331
Those 10k concurrent players are loyal, and will buy whatever you put out though. Better to make a niche cult classic with a loyal fanbase than make a multi-million dollar AAAA flop that people will forget after a month.

>>712978502 (OP)
>Why are there so few Hitman clones?

Yandere Simulator.

Other than that, it's because Hitman's gimmick is quite unique even amongst stealth games. It's hard to replicate it without making it an obvious knock-off.

>>712982540
Knock-offs aren’t inherently a bad thing. Lots of games rip-off other games and put their own spin on it. The early Assassin’s Creed games were also clearly Hitman inspired.

>>712978502 (OP)
A single Hitman level has more thought put into it than most games have in their entirety.

>>712978502 (OP)
Hitman but you are a femboy and gay sex is always an option to get closer to the target and you have a lady operator in your ear always trying to convince you to dress up and seduce guards.

>>712982832
>tfw Paris alone took 5 years to make

Granted, a lot of that time was also spent programming the basic mechanics of the game on top of that, but damn. IIRC, they even said in the NoClip documentary that a single level is months worth of work.

How do you make a Hitmanlike without being a blatant rip off and with fresh ideas?

>>712983314
>it took 5 years to make a building with 5 drain pipes and a couple rooms.

>>712983457
>Hitman, but with magic and powers ala Dishonored.

>Hitman, but in a historical setting, like Assassin’s Creed, but more in depth.

>Hitman, but it’s about stealing shit instead of killing people.

There’s a few ideas I can think of.

>>712983524
That is being a bit disingenuous since they had to basically design a lot of the mechanics from scratch with only a few reused Absolution assets to work with, plus considering how complicated the AI scripting is. WoA might have some of the most complex AI scripting in all of vidya. Only MGS really competes with it on that front.

Hitman WoA is incredible, and freelancer is just the cherry on top.

The thing is with Freelancer though is that theres still so much untapped potential still. It's still really good as it is right now but you can only imagine how much better it would be with some changes or a whole game based around it

>>712981140
fuck you, nigger. Die.

>>712983942
I can guarantee that the next Hitman game will probably have a big emphasis on Freelancer. Also, they’re apparently adding a co-op mode to the game.

>>712980471
Hitman C47 and Hitman 2: SA have maybe 3 "good" levels between them.

Contracts has a few good ones too.

But we must not ignore how fucking bad the plutonium level is in C47. Literally the worst level I've ever played in any game I've ever played.

>>712984053
You'd think that but I don't know. It seems like theyre sticking with WoA for at least another decade.

007 is their next game, then it's likely gonna be Project Fantasy, and because the 007 game will sell like hot cakes theyll probs get commissioned for another 007 game.

They are hiring for Hitman still, but only ET's. That's about it.

I am surprised they're STILL supporting the game though - especially adding co op. It'll be sick if its for every level.

>loved old hitman BM best hitman
>pirate nu hitman
>it just doesn't click
>delete
what causes this

>>712984239
because you lose all progression when you pirate. There's no incentive to unlock shit and try it out.

I say this as a fag who said BM was better until Hitman 2 came out

>>712984137
C47 was an experimental game where they were throwing shit at the wall to see what stuck. They found out that Traditions of the Trade style levels worked the best.

2SA had the basic formula down, but lacked polish and still had some non-assassination levels.

Contracts was the first game that was consistently good.

>>712984410
The vibes in contracts are unmatched

>>712984216
They’re still supporting the game because it has a loyal fanbase and still makes money. Plus, it’s really the only money maker IO have.

I don’t see them shutting the servers down for another decade at least. They’ll probably shut it down once the next Hitman comes out, at that point, they’d better include an offline mode.

I love Hitman so much bros. It's been such an ever-present part of growing up since silent assassin.

I found the nu-hitman to be really cool in some aspects, but the questmarkers really didn't do it for me, but if you turn them off the game often becomes way too big and unwieldy to navigate.

I really wish they'd design the game without hints in mind, and go design tighter levels rather than these five levels stitched together.

The way I hear it though the new games sold like shit, so maybe we won't get anymore of it.

>>712983314
Paris was originally a level of the scrapped Absolution sequel. That's technically the reason why it took so long. Paris was also used as the vertical slice for the rest of the game.
>>712983524
Paris was also originally way bigger than what we got. It had an exterior like Sapienza that was cut because the engine at the time couldn't run it without tanking the performance. The restaurant in Bangkok was originally in Paris.
https://youtu.be/dX3mfvG9jYY?feature=shared

>>712985178
You gotta let go of the fomo of not finding the coolest most intricate accidental kills and just play without the hints.

>>712981140
>The past 3 ioi hitmen were garbage and botched beyond bullshit
Delusional contrarianism.

>>712981140
>nu-sIOIs didn't like this one

>>712985178
>if you turn them off the game often becomes way too big and unwieldy to navigate

The game is perfectly manageable without them. Your first playthrough of a level isn’t going to be the most elegant due to the sheer size and intricacy of the levels, but that’s by design so you can replay the level to do better next time.

>>712979082
Blood money was the shittiest Hitman game to date bar C47. 100% guarantee you're a retard who started the series with WoA, went back to try the original games for OG cred, and could only tolerate BM because its casual as fuck mechanics and level design managed to somewhat appeal to your "modern audience" sensibilities.

>>712978502 (OP)
>sandbox murder sims
that's basically the definition of immersive sim, so:
Metal Gear 5
Thief
Deus Ex
Mark of the Ninja
Dishonored
and more

>>712978502 (OP)
Here's your indie Hitman clone.

>>712985178
>The "new" Hitman games, referring to the World of Assassination trilogy (Hitman 1, 2, and 3), have collectively sold 25 million copies and have been played by over 75 million players. Hitman 3, in particular, had a very successful launch, with sales exceeding its development budget within a week and performing 300% better commercially than Hitman 2, according to Hitman Forum. The trilogy, now packaged as "Hitman: World of Assassination", is considered the most successful entry in the series.
They sold really well apparently, so i'm full of shit glad to hear it. I think I heard it in Superbunnyhop's videos at the time where he lamented their poor sales for how good they were. Maybe H3 was enough to offset this.

>>712986906
>Thief
>murder sim

Thief outright punishes you for killing. It’s also not a sandbox in the sense that you’re encouraged to fuck around and see what happens.

I wish they had made the sniper kills in the normal levels like in the sniper assassin levels, having to account for bullet drop, leading shots and maybe even wind.

Nothing quite like infiltrating the perfect sniper's perch, but the shots themselves are often underwhelming.

>>712978502 (OP)
>so few
Is there anything besides Death to Spies and other game from that studio?

>>712987185
I personally don’t know why they don’t bring over the ammo types from Sniper Assassin mode. Maybe they’re concerned about it breaking some levels, but I don’t think the wall piercing ammo and shockwave ammo would be THAT broken.

How did you guys like the AI in nu-hitman?

>>712984053
>>712984216
having a competitive multiplayer mode where you play as bodyguards who have to escort the target through the level on its scheduled route could be fun, maybe throw in an assassin who's hunting the other assassins. Would probably be a nightmare to balance though, nevermind.

>>712987053
They sold a lot because they're assholes with rereleases. I bought Hitman 1 and its dlc. Then the same with Hitman 2. I heard that they were going to do an all in one with discount with previous owners and decided to wait on 3. Then WoA releases with 90 different editions and 0 discount. Fuck it

>>712989628
I think I picked up world of assassination for free as part of some campaign...though I owned Hitman 1&2. I never understood if there was a hitman 3 or if world of assassination is it or what.

>>712989942
The WoA that they gave for free is just one mission from the first game or so. WoA is all the games in the same engine. The thing is before if you had a game you could play the previous ones via owning them or a dlc.
A bunch of shit anticonsumer

>>712988124
It’s honestly the best it could realistically be. Smart enough to pose a challenge, but consistent enough to reliably predict.

The only thing I’d change is having them notice blood pools.

>>712990526
So you can't just play WoA and import Hitman 1&2 levels and only buy the hitman 3 levels? If you only need to buy the H3 levels, isn't that like a discount? Or is it literally like 60 dollaroos to buy all the h3 levels?

>>712991392
I just remember enemies swarming locations they shouldn't reasonably have known you were at, but maybe there's no way around that without removing all challenge

>>712991605
The AI is programmed to investigate your last know location. If they only notice a bullet, and are distracted rather than alerted, then they’ll investigate where the bullet hit. If they’re alerted, they’ll investigate where the shot came from.

Basically, they don’t know where you ARE when they’re alert, but they know where you’ve BEEN. It would be impossible to outrun and hide from guards otherwise.