>4 player coop PVE game
>Developers insist on nerfing weapons to "balance" the gameplay
>Meanwhile, 90% of the other weapons are dogshit even when buffed due to poor design
>Also the highest difficulty mode literally requires you to be meta slave, eventually resulting in giving devs the data on what needs to be nerfed

How does one solve all these issues without making the game less fun or without disgruntling the fans?

Is this dark tide?

>>712988692 (OP)
I have seen this trend of balance updates to nerf shit in PvE games and I really dont get it
It happens in darktide, helldivers, path of exile

>>712988781
yes. they've announced the next round of nerfs.

>>712988692 (OP)
>How does one solve all these issues without making the game less fun or without disgruntling the fans?
by not being fatshark, they probably think their meticulous balancing is their strength, clueless swedes.

>>712989002
Helldivers does the same thing too tho.

>>712989045
>Arrowhead Game Studios is a Swedish video game development company

>>712988863
>I really dont get it
The devs want you to stop having fun with broken shit.

Meta-Gamers are NPC's with no free will, no imagination, no creativity, no emotions. They will reduce all fun and activity into numbers until everything is a grey void where nothing happens.

>>712989519
Meta gaming is necessary if you value your time and if you are competitive.

>>712988863
Fatshark tends to have a yo-yo mentality with nerfs/buffs. I’ll never forget when they nerfed the homing weapons in VT1, only to introduce attack helicopter Kruber.
It’s why you should never rely on the meta and always keep in practise with using the slightly suboptimal weapons/builds.

>>712988692 (OP)
Every competetive game needs to have a meta. It is an eventuality. Devs just need to accept it and stop with the juggling antics.

wow only took 2 years to remove 100 cleave plasma light shots better late than never

>>712991237
yea thank god they nerfed the one good veteran ranged weapon.

>>712991672
time to come back to earth and learn how to play with normal weapons you trash can

>>712988692 (OP)
why didn't they nerf taunt ogryn? they have almost infinite toughness.

>>712991672
I do pretty well with a bolter and shock maul build.
Helps ease off relying on shout/stealth, too.

>>712992264
>shock maul
really? In havoc?

>>712988692 (OP)
If you don't rock and stone....

>>712992608
dead game

>>712988692 (OP)
does Darktide have a decent singleplayer or is it just multiplayer dogshit?

>>712992973
It's a multiplayer game.

>>712992391
you know he's only using that shit in fucking Malice

>>712992391
I don’t bother with havoc, just aurics.

>>712988692 (OP)
>without making the game less fun or without disgruntling the fans?
That's actually very simple,
Don't nerf shit so blatantly. Buff shit to make everything fun at the community's preferred power level and then add a higher difficulty for torturing people.

>>712993372
Auric is baby mode. You should play havoc.

I still desire a new Eldar game.

>>712988692 (OP)
truly the 40k of game balancing

>>712993864
>add a higher difficulty for torturing people.
Havoc 40 is as nutty as it can get. They probably can't push it any further without breaking the game.

Veteran
Catachan devil knoife
Full auto autogun
Shout

Let me guess - you need more.

>>712997137
>dies to a random crusher

>>712997137
Good luck shooting anything past ten meters away.

>>712997137
You are a burden to the team

>>712993874
Nah, it just doesn’t feel fun.
Playing gimped builds in auric is more entertaining.

The problem isn't the dueling sword and plasma per se its the fact they're pretty much mandatory on Havoc 30+. Dueling sword is one of the only melee weapons that can deal with the mountains of crushers and bullwarks thrown at you quick enough to deal with the dozens of other specials being thrown at you. People think nerfing the DS will open the meta back up but players will go right back to running knifes for their mobility, so now the meta will be a kiting game. Tbh the buffs don't look good enough to fill the gap but time will tell. Also nerfing the plasma is nerfing the vet which is ludicrous when he's switched places with the Ogryn for least picked. Plasma's cleave is almost essential when that sniper or bomber terrorizing your team is tucked away behind 9000 poxwalkers and bullwarks. The revolver used to do the job just fine but it got powercrept out and can't keep up with it's low ammo economy.

>>712998535
zealot and veteran are 100% going to be dogshit after the nerfs.

>>712998804
Vet, absolutely. Plasma is his only really good unique weapon. They don't like it's light spam but I think it's pretty balanced for high Havoc seeing as how you have to manage heat all the time. Charging the thing is just stupid when it takes too long AND it's not really enough higher damage for break points AND you risk blowing up. Zealot might be good with the parry game of the claws like it used to be over a year ago and the heavy eviscerator dunking on bosses with it's bleed stacks.

>>712999502
The heavy evi charged attacks are left untouched though. They are only buffing the normal attacks which are whatever.

>>712999502
>Plasma is his only really good unique weapon.
You need to start using hellebore. It's not as bad as most people think.

>>712998430
I don't feel entertained in darktide unless the game gets my pulse higher which never occurs for anything less than havoc 20.

>no content

>>713001168
your havoc 40 clear, sister?

>>712999502
don't forget charged shots taking ridiculous amounts of ammo
>>712999934
>shit sights
>shit draw time
>having to ADS/charge
I am curious to see how it handles with the buffs though

>>712999934
not him but its horrendous. I tried the Helbore V since it has the faster swap and charge and at any point I tried to take it out to kill something in the distance I had to wait what felt like a solid minute of tickling it balls and rubbing the shaft only for someone else to kill a sniper, bomber, etc. and genuinely felt like any other weapon would've served its purpose in a quarter of the time.

ok chink you gonna tell me the duelling sword wasn't too op?

>>713003557
fully charged weak point hit from hellbore kills almost all disablers.

>>713003596
It was only ever OP on the zealot due to the stacking buffs.

>>713003985
and specials.

>>713004076
the vet has a few buffs to make it obscene like piss toughness on demand, weakspot dmg boost and more attack speed

>>713004336
all of veteran's good melee weapons were nerfed to shit like power sword and devil claw before that. Now he would have absolutely nothing but a shovel.

>>713004513
the powersword powered push attack Light kills a crucher

>>713003596
did they nerf it? goddamnit, the only fun melee on my psyker

>>712988692 (OP)
Anyone who did not see the duelling sword nerfs coming has zero foresight. The weapon was far and away too good at its job to merit using any other weapon without losing a ton of flexibility or survivability. The thing carried a lot of shitty players to havoc 40 and even if it's overnerfed it's deserved, the other melees need to be picked so that their weaknesses are built around
Zealot is going to need a talent tree rework though, it's been horrible to play zealot in havoc for a long time. Way too feast or famine with the talents and they're a huge burden on the team if they aren't significantly better players than normal
Plasma got completely killed but Veteran will be fine, he has quite a few strong ranged weapons to rely on in Havoc. The improved Helbore swap speed might actually make me pick it up because I like the ammo efficiency lasweapons and I won't have to run deadshot for it. I really, really wish they gave Surgical to the infantry lasguns though.

>>713004554
It used to have infinite cleave for hordes.

>>712988692 (OP)
>>Developers insist on nerfing weapons to "balance" the gameplay
>>Meanwhile, 90% of the other weapons are dogshit even when buffed due to poor design
I have no idea what you're talking about.

The weapons in this game are not 90% dogshit. In fact the dueling swords, the combat knives, the revolvers, the plasma rifle, the pickaxes, the riot shield, the bully clubs, all of these weapons are overpowered right now. Most of the other weapons are OK. The only really weak ones are shotguns and tac axes. The only truly dogshit weapon is the ogryn's power maul.

The weapon balance of this game is in a good state, it's even a bit too good because with the right weapons even the hardest masochism modes can be a bit too easy. The dueling sword is in clear need of a nerf and the community has said so for months.

When's the last time you played this game? Have you played it at all, or are you just vaguely bitching?

>>713004760
Assault chainaxe, shock maul, crusher, shredder autopistol, etc etc are all dogshit.

>>712997137
I like being an ogryn and throwing the whole box of grenades right in the face of the berzerkers, makes me laugh every time

>>713004976
>Assault chainaxe
Nope.
>shock maul
It's below average but not really worse than tac axes.
>crusher, shredder autopistol
Kek fuck no. Crusher with impact blessings + skullcrusher is great, shredder autopistol is above average.
Post your playtime dumbass.

>>713004684
There is effectively only one fucking playstyle for the zealot and it's tiresome. The 3 subclasses isn't even true because of how bad the talent tree for zealot is.

>>713004760
They should nerf Zealot and Psyker shield imo. It's WAAAAY too commonplace

>>712988692 (OP)
>>712988863
>hmmm should we nerf this ONE thing that's OP
or
>Buff these 100 other things that's in line with how we want our game balance
midwits like you is the reason so many games get ruined by powercreep

>>713005170
Ogryn taunt is way fucking OP and no one gives a fuck. Actually every class should be nerfed.

>>713005114
completely agreed, it's REALLY badly designed and not fun to build zealot when your entire life is decided by your critrate and you have one or two points spare (and then you perform worse than the ogryn because you can't shit out toughness and DR on demand)

>>712988692 (OP)
the nerfs are for the Dueling Sword and the Plasma Gun which are both 100% warranted nerfs

Plasma Gun is not only deathly boring but is overtuned in a way that is inconsistent with how the weapon is supposed to be used. primary fire is supposed to be the low commitment light attack, secondary the high commit heavy attack. but the light attack is so OP there's no reason to use the gun as intended
Dueling Sword is blatantly overtuned when combined with zealot/vet skilltree. does 3x more damage than anything else when aiming for the head, fast, very mobile, easy to use, and for some reason still solid against hordes. what's the point of intimidating boss music when a monstrosity spawns, if you can just poke it in the head with a dueling sword 8 times and it goes down? this should've been addressed months ago

>>712988692 (OP)
You got to understand. They need to nerf things so that their paid class is sufficiently OP for people to buy.

>>713005693
>They need to nerf things so that their paid class is sufficiently OP for people to buy.
it's a PvE game retard, one weapon being weaker will not make another competing weapon stronger
btw all shotguns are getting buffs even though they directly compete with the new shotgun coming with the paid class

>>712988692 (OP)
Quit. Playing. Multiplayer. Trash.
>It's that easy.
Bonus points for Deep Rock Galactic.
>People on this board dick ride it.
>Meta gated by RNG that gets worse due to cosmetic slop everywhere instead of weapon overclocks.
>You could be really unlucky and not have Sticky Flames for Driller for a while and not be viable for Haz5+

Kinda funny that this balance pass is literally all buffs and the nerfs aren't even confirmed (and are not going to be in this one anyways) but OP just told a fucking lie and baited everyone.
Also fuck DS and Plasma kids, stop being a little meta bitch.

>>713006079
What do you use on vet?

>>712988692 (OP)
if you complain about these particular nerfs (rapier and plasma) i will instantly know you don't actually play the game therefore your opinion is invalid

>>712988692 (OP)
The new class seems much worse than any of this though. The 4 arbites team they had on the gameplay showcase weren't able to manage a dogshit malice horde with a couple of ragers in it.

>>713006079
I use DS because I liked rapier in VT2
also rapiers are based

>>713006523
Post loadouts

>>712988863
no fun allowed

>>713006079
kys fatshark cum gargling faggot

>>712988692 (OP)
>next patch will blanket buff underperforming weapons
>the nerfs arent final and arent in yet AND will be subject to discussion
>screech and shit about it
dont reeee too hard bro, your overtuned crutches deserve to be nerfed even though the WIP nerfs for plasma primary fire are a bit overtuned

>>713005548
>if you can just poke it in the head with a dueling sword 8 times and it goes down
people play on modes harder than easy

>>713006667
I literally dont see any point of the arbites class other than the use of its gimmicky dog mechanic. A melee centric class having very poor melee damage but high crowd control seems pointless. Ogryn pickaxe can do both, zealot relic blade and heavy eviscerator can do both.

>>713006715
its just not the same without the pistol offhand

>>713007018
hoho we are now pretending the Dueling Sword's headshot damage is balanced on damnation are we?
thread finally makes sense, made by a Dueling Sword crutch user seething because his wheelchair is finally receiving a well deserved nerf

>>712988692 (OP)
>4 player coop PVE game
>Developers insist on nerfing weapons to "balance" the gameplay
>Meanwhile, 90% of the other weapons are dogshit even when buffed due to poor design
>Also the highest difficulty mode literally requires you to be meta slave, eventually resulting in giving devs the data on what needs to be nerfed

zamn... just like Helldivers 2 before they started tard wrangling the game balance guy...

>>713007061
The bully club and thunderhammer as well. A support CC in a game which is all about DPS is retarded.

>>713007227
It's nearly like the game is intended to be played at a "power" of those 90% "useless" weapons and you need to git gud and stop being a metasheep.

>>713007223
you faggot yes-men cum slurpers are what's wrong with every pve game community.
Just can't accept that shits fine and every other option sucks ass

>>713007595
>Just can't accept that shits fine and every other option sucks ass
if you think the Dueling Sword is fine and every other option sucks ass, you're just the one that sucks ass

>Meanwhile, 90% of the other weapons are dogshit even when buffed due to poor design
I would immediately fix this by removing 90% of the weapons in the entire game and converting them to skins
From a game design stand point, most weapons in this game are fucking pointless and are basically just slight derivatives of the base weapon for that weapon class, so slight that there isn't even a justification for their existence

>>713004760
You're retarded

>>713007667
no you are just a fucking moron
thunder hammer sucks ass, chain weapons suck ass, power mauls suck ass - all things that should be good at single target damage but aren't

I’m starting to think having interchangeable loadouts in a co-op pve game was a mistake.
L4D and KF did it better.

>>713007459
Thunderhammer is bugged. Landing hits doesn't register often.

>>713008060
true they should've restricted some weapons because clearly they aren't up to the task of balancing properly

>>713007827
You're shit at the game if dueling sword is the only way to stop you from feeling weak.

>>713008227
No. you're retarded because you actually believe that most weapons in it are good.

>>712988692 (OP)
The dueling sword should have never been implemented in the game, it's a silly idea for a combat weapon in a horde shooter

>>713007980
thammer and chainaxes are both good at single target damage, your definition of "what is good at single target damage" is completely skewed by the dueling sword being absurdly overpowered
rapidly tapping a crusher in the head two times should not kill it, if that's your baseline for proper weapon performance you're nuts

>>712989617
>value your time
>playing video games
ok man

>>712997137
Bet you use smokes as well

>>713008327
The only truly weak weapons in the game are tacaxes (getting buffed), shotguns (getting buffed), shock clubs (also getting buffed) and the awful ogryn power maul. If you think any other weapon type is too weak, know that I am aware of you being bad at the game.

is the ranger class still the one with the best melee weapon ?
that was pretty funny shit
as in absolute retardation

>>712988692 (OP)
>game spawns Karnak twins + beast of nurgle + 2 hexbound daemonhosts in havoc 25
Why don't they balance the game instead of the weapons?

>>712988692 (OP)
Pretty dishonest, OP. The devs put in these patch notes that they are buffing a ton of underused stuff first before going to nerf the overperformers.

>>713008652
nah power sword is shit now

>>713004684
>Dueling Sword was powerful but restricted to a weak melee class (psyker)
>fatshart gives dueling swords to strong melee classes (zealot, veterans)
>dueling sword gets nerfed because vet and zealot and now psyker doesn't have good melee weapons

>>713008706
they omeganerfed the cleave unless you had a blessing because fun things cannot stay fun

>>713008741
The meta for psyker is knife now.

>>713008339
but how else are we going to reuse the assets we made for Saltzpyre's rapier?

>>713008883
Maybe by doing some work instead of taking half the year off?

>>713008694
>ADS Vertical Field of View from 65 to 55
>Sprint cost per second from {1.5, 0.5} to {1.25, 0.75}
Yeah that's some god tier buffs right there.

>>713008741
psykers are still paying reparations for the days of assail spam

>>712988692 (OP)
>sank 2000 hours into Vernintide 2, did most of the content short of community driven mental illness difficulty setting, satisfaction even if the game was broken on launch
>can't force myself to invest more than 300 into darktide, every major patchnote seems to miss the mark
gameplay and levels blended together after a while, skill tree change was boring
>20x +5 hp dots
>keystone ability, stone the chaos jesus
shame really, Psyker resonated better with me than Sienna

>>713009063
+abusing the smite bug

You think this is bad? look at killing floor 3 lmao

Once you get a 40 Havoc clearance ranking is there a reason to grind your assignment ranking up to 40 as well?

>>713009631
If I had a nickel for every coop horde shooter that shat the bed on its 3rd installment id have two nickels.

>>713009723
No. There's no point in any clearance above 25 since you get the cosmetic at that rank and then all you need to do is grind 50 havoc missions of any level for the rest of the gear.

>>713009723
Being at assignment level 40 means you can never, ever derank again which is pretty nice. Makes the mode much more relaxing to play and experiment with

>>713009017
>Cherrypicking
Eat shit, nigger. Enjoy learning a new weapon now that your crutch is on a chopping block.

>>713010153
But your clearance never deranks so it'd be irrelevant
>>713010151
tbf there are penances and other cosmetics for 35 and 40

>>713010153
grinding havoc gear is also pointless since they aren't as good as your premium cash shop cosmetic.

>>713010746
Not all of us are oinkers, anon.

>>713010890
Almost everyone I see on Havoc have premium cosmetics lol.

>>713010975
Are you running with the same 3 people?

>>713011117
Nah I always do pubs. You are probably playing in a third world shithole server.

>>712988692 (OP)
>>Developers insist on nerfing weapons to "balance" the gameplay
>dueling sword isn't even nerfed yet and the trannies are already seething
Cry about it you utter fucking trash can nigger. You're a fucking shitter and damnation does not require metafagging. Neither does maelstrom for that matter. Havoc is fucking gay. The game has only gotten progressively easier and if you're complaining about difficulty it's because you're clinically retarded. Kill yourself.

>>712988863
helldivers devs buffed the entire roster of weapons to the point where it doesn't even matter what you take and retards can melt the highest diff on autopilot, and everyone applauded them for it
in other words please shut the fuck up you whiny retard

>>713011475
but thats a good thing

>>713011448
>limp dick faggot who doesnt play havoc calling others a shitter
lmao.

>>713011239
That's a pretty rude thing to say about any country (and untrue for mine). Please retract this statement.

>>713007227
I love when horrible players out themselves like this.

>>713011475
>and everyone applauded them for it
these were the same devs that nerfed the shit out of 1 weapon because it was bugged on console because they didn't understand how it worked
and they spent several updates buffing the flamethrower because they didn't know it was bugged for people joining a game and didn't do AoE damage
same devs that couldn't even make it past Difficulty 4 of their own game

>>713011627
just saying. you are very obviously playing in a poorfag region.

>>712988692 (OP)
You could just play Space Marine 2 instead if its that much if an issue.

>>713011582
I've beaten havoc 40. It's not that hard. I just find the way the difficulty changed the game unfun. It's purely there to keep autistic retards away from everyone else.

DS deserves a nerf to be fair. It shouldn’t be the best anti armor weapon on every single character save ogryn

How are Ogryn looking in the coming changes? Haven't played since... Gosh, been a while.

>>713011850
zealots shouldn't even have it tbf, they should be the designated horde clearers

>>713011850
Ogryn should get DS

>>713011954
Ogryns were buffed in a recent patch. They're fucking OP tanks now.

>>713008741
Force swords are still very fun and more than viable. You can use basically any weapon you want outside of high level havoc.

>>713011850
they should've left it with saltzpyre, why does everyone else get it?

>>713011769
Havoc 40 in havoc 2.0 is not the same as in old havoc.

>>713011745
SM2 is boring.

>>713011693
>same devs that couldn't even make it past Difficulty 4 of their own game
Fatshark couldn't even go past 3 lol

>>713012153
I haven't played it since way before 2.0. If they've improved it so it's actually a fun challenge instead of autistic bullshit then I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong.
>>713012212
Sad but true. I hate the over reliance on the parry system. The game is far too reactive rather than proactive. Your weapons are secondary to your parry/block and it's extremely lame. At least the pvp is better about that.

>>713009723
You can't get demoted as a 40 host and can play it for fun as your main difficulty safely to get better and dunk on shitters in the baby modes (snoric maelstrom)

>>713011708
I never said I didn't see paypiggies.

>>713012513
I'm not even joking when I say everyone has premium cosmetics. I play exclusively on Europe server and had atleast 20 havoc matches last week. I can count the number of people who didn't have premium shit in one hand.

>>712988692 (OP)
>>712988863
I'm really fucking glad the swedes took their Retard Pills and stopped doing that shit wirh Helldivers 2.

Since the 60 Day Patch a year ago the only nerf they made was on the Ultimatum, the singular time it was actually justified.

>>712988692 (OP)
Playing plasma and dueling swords all the time is boring.
Balance that encourages variety in gameplay is good.

>>712988692 (OP)
Atrox axe + brutal momentum bros.... we are fuarking back.

>>712988692 (OP)
>plasma nerfed
dropped

>>713014841
Isn't posting this picture a banneable offense?

>>713008386
lmao, good post. Normalfags are really something else man, they play video games not because they see something cool about them, they do it because it's popular and there are cool explosions and shit on the screen. Video games are like movies to them

>>713015179
Doesn't this guy just evade the bans anyway?

>>712997137
Too based for this thread.
Shitters can't parry so they take DS.
Good on FS for forcing them to learn or swap.

>>712997137
sedition difficulty calls. It wants its build back.

>>712988692 (OP)
The next balance pass will
>buff shotguns
>buff axes
>buff catachans
>nerf the stab sword
>nerf the plasma coil
this all exactly the way it should be, the underperforming weapons are getting buffed while the drastically overperforming weapons are getting nerfed. This all seems good so I don't know what your problem is. I guess power mauls need buffs too.

>>713013310
I think Plasma is fine for high Havoc desu. The problem with nerfs is it might set a precedent to start nerfing everything that's useful for 30+ like the recon lasgun, knife, purgatus staff, bubble shield, voc shout, book, and taunt ogryn with fast bully club. Basically everything that's overkill for Auric but fits right at home for Havoc. The problem is should they balance the game for top tier havoc players or the more numerous random pub Heresy filtered players? I was hoping the bolter would be useful on vet after it's buff but the ammo pickup debuff is too strong. If it's powercreep everyone's worried about then biggest powercreep was the skill tree introduction. The DS's finesse damage was doubled when they introduced it to the other classes for some reason so it might need a slight finesse nerf but it's a pve game so I don't really care that much desu. I'd wish they would rework Executioner's Stance though that shit is useless when you're getting mobbed every nanosecond.

>>713016843
>The problem is should they balance the game for top tier havoc players or the more numerous random pub Heresy filtered players?
the latter. every time a for-fun game tries to competitively balance itself for the top 1% of the playerbase, it becomes unfun and shit

>>713016939
To this day tf2 players hate compfags for ruining their game.

>>713016939
>>713017485
That's pvp tho this is a pve game.