Why is there a recent backlash against JRPGs that try to do something different, unique, and engaging, when games like this used to be beloved precisely because they breathed new life into a genre famous for menu scrolling and excel spreadsheet gameplay?

Idk man, these are just bait images made by random autists. Who cares?

>>713069058 (OP)
The mechanics doesn't really add any strategic depth to your decisions. In fact, it removes the role playing element since the result if your decisions aren't tied to the abilities of the character, but you dexterity as a player.
This has been expressed since the first time those elements were explored, but maybe some e-celeb revived the sentiment?

Unique mechanics are often welcome, but action commands aren't unique as your image shows and fundamentally against the point of turn-based RPGs.

>>713069417
There you go
/therad

>>713069058 (OP)
Because the "unique, engaging, different" thing is nothing more than a cheap trick that doesn't fix the fundamental issues with the games' mechanincs

>>713069058 (OP)
Jarpiggy combat is boring and braindead as fuck, so adding timing challenges helps it be more engaging.

Jarpiggies have always been a braindead genre appealing to the lowest common denominator. Braindead, poorly balanced, grindy games for retards who lack the intelligence for strategy games and CRPGs

>>713069417
pretty much, it just makes it annoying to play if you have to actively parry trash mobs

>>713069752
crpgs suck, there's nothing intelligent about looking up other viable builds or specializing the stat of one unit

>>713069058 (OP)
Only Expedition 33 did it well.

>>713069417
JRPGs are not "role playing games", they're number crunching simulators where your only roleplaying is choosing which anime girl you want to bone. You could argue that action elements intrude upon your number crunching experience, but the argument that it "infringes on the roleplay" is ridiculously weak. It holds water like a sieve.

what a shitty thread with bad faith intentions
i will not give it any more of my vitality
tfu

>>713070131
>t. 5

>>713070131
JRPGs are a weak minded interpretation of what a cRPG is
japs cannot code
it makes sense that a weak minded shit coder would produce a subpar mimicry of the actual thing

>>713070262
Why do you need an excel speadsheet overlaid with anime jaypegs to enjoy the fruits of your imagination? You can engage in maladaptive daydreaming without paying $60, you know.

>>713070131
>>713070375
>The west coast hebrews with Japanophobia have entered the chat
I bet you faggots played dragon quest once at your cousins place and never touched a jrpg again

>>713069314
fpbp

bait images are not real life

>>713070460
Great argument for not playing games at all

>>713069058 (OP)
If those are "mediocre" then what is a good JRPG?
>inb4 some garbage that you played once when you were 12 years old and thought it was hella deep because the story was copy-pasted from Neon Genesis Evangelion

>>713070763

>>713070536
not those anons and I don't hate Japan at all, on the contrary, however JRPGs are 99% of the time pure slop, especially ones that get praised incessantly like FF, Persona, and SMT or whatever it is with the tranny in it. The art is almost always trash and the writing is dogshit without fail.

>>713069417
Yes it makes them fun we get it.

>>713069058 (OP)

>>713069752
We get it zoom zoom. You have insecurities. Being cracked at video games isn't going to solve the issue though.

>>713069058 (OP)
Timed inputs in a turn based game are fucking annoying. They are not new, unique or engaging

>>713069839
That's like saying written tests suck because you can open up a text book and look up the answer. How about you stop cheating yourself out of experience?

>>713069058 (OP)
Because jrpg fans don't really exist in the same capacity as they used to and the media/gaming industry/"journalists" have a blatant bias toward & open hatred of jrpgs + the Japanese in general.

>>713069058 (OP)
Incel thread

>>713070980
It's the gaming equivalent of rattling keys in front of a cat
Maybe for you, not for me

>>713069417
>since the results of your decisions aren't tied to the abilities of the character but your dexterity as a player
Isn't that what should matter most in videogames? Also, dexterity is not the only factor. There are tons of games where you can prevail just by planning correctly and making the correct decisions in advance, like strategy games.
Maybe the conclusion to take here is that "role-playing" elements established through stat allocation and other spreadsheet mechanics trampling over gameplay and player ability are inherently anti-videogames? WRPGs, JRPGs, even ARPGs tend to be more on the interactive moviegame side than actual, engaging high-octane pure action games. If you invoke the role playing aspect, then what you people want are visual novels or experiences that are really close to that, like Disco Elysium. At least the games in those cases are structured specifically for it, instead of frustrating combat mechanics like in Dark Souls, The Witcher, Fallout or TES games.
And no, before you say I'm a ADHD zoomie filtered by turn-based mechanics or strategic planning in vidya, I'm 1380 ELO on AWBW standard and 1250 in fog.

>>713071267
All those "achievements" and you have never held a girl's hand.

>>713071267
>Isn't that what should matter most in videogames?
Not necessarily. You can have games that test other skills as you just mentioned, turn-based RPGs are effectively light strategy games.
> Also, dexterity is not the only factor.
When turn-based RPGs add action commands, that's usually the result: a dumbed down action game where your builds or stats don't really matter, as you are able to completely nullify incoming or inflate outcoming damage either way. Hell even if you didn't have those, imagine how chess would look like if you had to play an action minigame every time you try to capture a piece, the strategy depth would obviously suffer because it doesn't matter how you are moving your pieces, only whether you are actually able to successfully capture the opponent's through the minigame or protect yours in the same way.
> "role-playing" elements established through stat allocation and other spreadsheet mechanics trampling over gameplay and player ability are inherently anti-videogames?
That's fucking dumb, gameplay trampling over gameplay? Since when the term is only used to refer to action mechanics? These "spreadsheet mechanics" originate from wargames in the first place, are you going to say they are not games or that somehow putting that in vidya form invalidates it because "it just does"?

>>713071267
Not quite sure what you are arguing for here. Rpg fans should play visual novels because to you they have more pure role playing?

>>713069058 (OP)
People are so fed up with "X with a twist" they hate "with a twist" retroactively now.

>>713072028
It's overused would be my guess

>>713072028
It's hardly a twist, but also not a good one.
There are other ways to introduce action elements in RPGs without diminishing the the character building/strategical depth, that's the kind of thing Xenoblade games tried to do by never going pure action or pure menuing.

Thiis isn't just about JRPG.
Some people mistakenly believe that attacking childhood means becoming an adult.

>>713070536
I'm Lithuanian, I study Japanese and I love number crunching simulators. If you think JRPGs are actual RPGs you're a delusional retard. They come short of the role even in comparison to WRPGs, and those too are simple choose your own adventure novels.

Really the closest thing to an actual RPG we have in gaming is Space Station.

>>713069058 (OP)
I did not learn about the HP ticking down thing in Earthbound until Magicant.

There's no "backlash". It's simply basic awareness that giving your 4 niggas in a row game a simple 1 button qte mechanic doesn't make it something extraordinary. It's doubly funny when motherfuckers pretend its something mindblowing when a modern game is doing the same thing as Paper Mario.

>>713071125
They can't help themselves. They need to 100% every game with a guide they found on the internet in order to enjoy anything. Failing a skill check because of a dice roll is antithetical to that.

>>713069058 (OP)
Oh look fun games.

>>713069058 (OP)
You want battles in JRPGs to go as fast as possible. >>713069417 is right, but it goes beyond that. It turns the game into a drag because now you can't only skip through repetitive battle animations, you have to do a stupid QTE every time yo want to do something right. And generally it adds nothing to the gameplay.
It's not like in action JRPGs where you can actually make up for this with skill. You end up with a game that's the worst of both worlds.

>>713070131
They always hate the truth.

>>713073129
How.
Didn't the exploding trees make it obvious?

>>713070375
JRPGs are older genre than them dumbass. They're very faithful to how older RPGs were. Western RPGs didn't all use to jerk off over simulating tabletop and embraced being video games.

>>713073995
I accept your concession.

>>713069058 (OP)
Undertale and Deltarune put normal Rpgs to shame, someone just needs to take that gameplay and put it into an actual lengthy game

There is no build variety in the toby fox games, there needs to be a game with deltarune combat but multiple party members that actually get more spells and shit throughout the game

They literally are the only good turn based RPGs. They have actually engaging gameplay that's not "make big number appear on the screen". If you don't have those non-rpg mechanics then it becomes just endless grinding or luck.

>>713071125
I don't. I always complete them on a second or third save because I fuck up my first one, but it is a waste of time to do so. There's no challenge behind CRPGs, just hours of tedious trite bullshit to dig through.

>>713072316
xenoblade fuckinh sucks, i hated that it played like an f2p mmo rpg like flyff

>>713074302
>someone just needs to take that gameplay and put it into an actual lengthy game
All this would do is clarify that Undertale and Deltarune don't actually have as good of gameplay as you seem to think.

>>713074956
MMOs wish they actually played anything like that.

>>713069314
Bait bothers me on a broader level because it says something bad about society when individuals feel compelled to goad for fleeting attention from faceless strangers. It's not hard to imagine 1 person in such a desperate situation, but seeing an increase in depraved people to the point it's become common, isn't great to witness.

>>713075136
its hilarious that white boys mock minorities for being oversensitive despite being constantly peer pressured by online mspaint images

>>713075818
I'm speaking generally, as in all peoples. Not sure what you're referencing specifically.

Jrpgs aren't RPGs because you cannot choose your role in the story. Actually if it doesn't have turn based, dice based D&D-style open ended roleplaying then it is not an RPG. Right now AI generated text world games are the closest match

>>713075818
>I know the race of everyone posting things online
Nothing is as important as you think this is.

>>713075136
It's because, broadly speaking, that's what people use internet for nowadays. Social media is all about getting attention and many newfags think the same culture also applies to 4chan when in reality this is more of a otaku/hobbyist thing.
Also the vast majority gave up having intellectually honest discussions and debates on the internet, because being disingenuous gives you more engagement and you might get idiots to actually agree and repost your shit as opposed to reading up lengthy and elaborate arguments backed up by proper proof.

>>713070131
JRPGs are RPGs.
The idea that because they aren't "roleplay"-intensive, they aren't actually RPGs is stupid considering the earliest tabletop RPGs and the tabletop wargames these early TRPGs weren't even roleplay-intensive either.
The idea that RPGs must be full of LARPing and life simulation mechanics was an 80s American thing, while Japanese tabletop games were still stuck in the 60s-70s since Dungeons & Dragons never took off in Japan and so Japanese RPGs were far more influenced by "miniature wargames" and late 70s-early 80s CRPGs (which were less roleplay-intensive than their tabletop counterparts).

Number crunching WAS what RPGs were entirely about until Dungeons & Dragons became big with nerds. Japs just took number crunching and slapped a linear story on top of it. There's loads of Japanese tabletop RPGs from the 80s and early 90s with predefined characters and almost entirely linear stories lmao.

>>713078449
Finally somebody who gets it.
Yeah we call them "Role-Playing GAMES" as opposed to just group storytelling or LARPing because they have game mechanics, generally speaking they all use stat checks and battle systems where various interactions between numbers happen.

>>713069058 (OP)
>breathed new life into a genre famous for menu scrolling and excel spreadsheet gameplay?
Just like your post, they reek of someone that looks down on the genre as a whole yet wants to make a game in that style almost as a way getting an easy win because they think theyre making the only good game in a genre thats shit. Its like how people call any anime they like but belongs to a genre they disrespect a "deconstruction". You are posers that dont understand the fundamental appeal of the genre or what makes its most influential games good, nor the reason why its conventions developed the way they did.
Games like those you talk about invite the type of retard that thinks "jarpigs" are all about grinding and number crunching either because they didnt even play them or are so retarded that they have to grind levels to beat a boss instead of hitting them with their obvious elemental weakness.