They say they're like Disney, but (and this might just be a me-thing) doesn't Nintendo outside of the NES/SNES feel soulless as a company?

It omes across like after the SNES, they didn't focus on making quality, sophisticated consoles and games and instead coated on this "meme" factor of "fun". It's something you can really pick up on in their aesthetics and ost's post-SNES. It doesn't feel as authentic as the NES/SNES era. It's overly buoyant and actively trying to appeal to the audience in some "hey we're a casual everybody-get-together games company, we and we LOVE money. Please give us money, get excited for next product. We expect you to and know you will because we have your nostalgic mindshare."

Their OST's come across as though the composers aren't trying to authentically make music but instead make something that sells the audience this meme concept of "fun". All I can describe the stuff as is pseudo- funky, jazzy, snazzy, accessibly melodic, sometimes blandly orchestral, but it never sounds authentic fun like Sega's music or authentically orchestral in an emotionally compelling way like Square Enix music. People laud the Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda, and Smash Bros soundtracks but they don't sound authentically emotionally resonant. It sounds like Nintendo composers are playing into this meme concept of "fun"

Can you elaborate on the
>meme concept of "fun"
What do you mean by that?

>>713216335 (OP)
>They say they're like Disney, but doesn't Nintendo outside of the NES/SNES feel soulless as a company?
No, they've always been Disney.
From Miyamoto being eccentric like Walt, to extremely strict brand control and copyright enforcement, to even getting into theme parks and "lifestyle games" like Wii Fit (while not on the same scale as EPCOT, still the same type of grandeur of "being more than an entertainment company"), with patent trolling over Palworld in a similar vein as the aggressive Disney lobbying, and the Disney vault rhetoric.

>>713216335 (OP)
You forgot the third guy in the iconic trio

I have to make comparisons. I didn't have room in the OP to put them, but reason I say and respect the NES/SNES era is because it feels like Nintendo were being an authentic company that wasn't just trying to make money and be "fun." "Fun" didn't develop as a meme philosophy for them yet.

Something like Link to the Past or Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island I think of as being so artistically compelling. The games still hold up phenomenally as adult experiences like classic Disney films. It's not dumbed down in a kiddie way. Or trying to be brainlessly entertainment or "fun".

Listen to the intro here.

https://youtu.be/iC0KIrKIEYM

Look how plainly Nintendo appears just saying in small white text: "Nintendo Presents"
It's so feature-like. The intro is so simple and poetic, melancholic, and haunting.

Other Zelda games try to aim for being "artistic" compared to other Nintendo games but they're so in a meme sense. Like they're consciously trying to be art as opposed to just being created out of a passionate drive to make something resonant and quality. Something akin to old artisans that were just incredibly skillful craftsmen.

https://youtu.be/F9ohCKS_LUM
Ocarina still has some emotion in its track. Has the haunting and simplistic, melancholic flair, but you can already sense this attempt to TRY to be artistic with the new 3d hardware. It's like something that would appeal to arthoes on tumblr and instagram. It's aesthetic, but it's not art. Link to the Past doesn't have that same meme-art appeal

>>713217020
This is some of the stupidest shit I've ever read, sweet projection anon.

>>713216912
Julian, look! It's You!

>>713216662
It's tough to describe but it's something I pick up on explicitly big time in any ost threads on /v/ where a bunch of nintendo fans post stuff like tracks from ds and wii games. I think of something like all these party and simple (not arcade-y because I respect arcades deeply, Nintendo never was arcade-y only in the NES era, their modern games that mimic arcade replayability styles is never score-centric or rhythmically complex in what you can capably do in any of their games like real arcade games). But basically something like this mario hoops ost. I think off the top of my head as being "meme" fun. It tries to actively sell the audience on being welcoming and inviting and acting as though it's just trying to have a fun time. No thought, no skill, no finesse, just fun.

https://youtu.be/egn9B37GwpM

It sounds superficially funky and jazzy like something Capcom might've released. But it's too "FUN". "Don't you got to see it" lyrics, sparkly arragements in the composition, snappy groove, keyboards, sounding like an iceskating performance, just superficially entertain you, but not have any conflict in the sound that comes across like something compelling is going on, bigger than just the game itself.

https://youtu.be/2-_unC-g_rY
This capcom track is way different. It's not about "FUN" it's about getting in together in a rhythmic dance between highs and lows, dominants and stimulants, a flurry of ecstasy, mixtures in the pot. Not a flaccid iceskating performance that isn't engaging the audience. The track is getting you in. You're participating instead of being puffed with"Fun" confetti and cotton candy.

>>713216662
They make terrible non-engaging games. The Nes and SNES I respect deeply. Still hold up tremendously well. True gaming. But everything after is simplistic, rote, basic, and aimed at being "appealing" and "fun" in a casual sense. Even games that have competitive appeal like Smash, still aesthetically and mechanically are drenched in just trying to be "fun" as opposed to genuinely making great games. They try to be "fun" so much that I would genuinely outright call them non-games. Like legit. Phone games still retain arcade-y roots in many ways versus Nintendo superficially carrying the appearance of the arcade. So phone games would be considered more gamelike than modern Nintendo games. I really don't have any way to peg modern Nintendo games beyond being "fun" casual party stuff. It's an entertainment aesthetic playground. But it's not even really a playground because you're not allowed to do much in these games. Most people that are Nintendo fans aren't really gamers I'd say. They don't really like games or at least don't know the theory or philosophy behind what uniquely makes a game strong and compelling. Nintendo fans just are drawn to the aesthetic and I would say it's a horrendously apocalyptic capitalistic outcome that Nintendo has emerged as. They have made enormous bank on just selling out to this idea of easy fun. And they've sucked up a large part of the industry. When I watch their directs, it depresses me. Their cold, sterile approach to just wanting to "be fun". Their bland cookie cutter non-games. Somebody can say just ignore it, but it genuinely depresses me with how much traction they get online for just being a cartoon aesthetic that people get absorbed in, make fanart of, listen to the music as opposed to being compelling games in themselves.

>>713217186
>This is some of the stupidest shit I've ever read, sweet projection anon.
Tbh it's some of the stupidest shit I've never read.

>>713218538
embarassing post. You're not smart and you should stop trying to convince yourself that you are.

>how dare nintendo make FUN games?
>I need to HATE playing the game, I need to smash X a million times mindlessly while the character performs choreographic movements for me
>I need to READ a bunch of text and WATCH a 20 hours of cutscenes describing a bunch of uninteresting narrative plots invented by DEI hires that never even read a book in their life, now that's GAMING

Embarrassing thread

I am leaving now

>>713216335 (OP)
You seem to have forgotten that Disney is soulless, too.

>>713218684
What do you mean? I'm not trying to sound smart. They're long posts but it's because it's tough describing the differences between NES/SNES Nintendo and everything else after. Most Nintendo fans like everything after, so it's hard for them to see the massive downgrade in quality.

>>713218903
This isn't comparing them with Sony. I'm more of a Sega fan if anything.

>>713216335 (OP)
Disney is also a soulless company though so the comparison holds true.

>>713220545
Yes Disney after Walt. Even probably 60s Walt is soulless because of Disneyland. But classic Disney is high art. So much so it doesn't really appeal to people today as much. Too slow and somewhat plotless, sentimental.

>>713216335 (OP)
This post reads like it's written by Neil druckman.

>>713216662
Tldr.
He's calling everything forced soul

>>713220703
see here >>713220790
also jews took over 80s. so Disney sold out and became wackier with pop culture references like Warner Bros. They still had great artistic tenets though. The skill of animation is remarkable.

https://youtu.be/OElUWCKsPgM

I can't say I agree. There's a massive amount of craft and engineering that goes into Nintendo games as well as a high degree of polish.

>>713221181
In the 80s and 90s. Not afterwards. I doubt it takes that much effort to make Mario Party. I appreciate the acrobatics you can do with controlling 3d mario, but there's something vitally missing compared to 2d mario. I'm not really drawn to play 3d mario games like I am with 2d. And I don't think it's just the fact of being 3d. I like the Sonic Adventure games a lot.

>>713221491
Mario Party is just... Mario Party. I'm talking more specifically about their games which aren't just casual party games. DK Bananza for example looks brilliant put together as well as games like Xenoblade 3 which are highly emotional experiences and without any falsity.

I personally am not the biggest fan of Odyssey myself but it's still an excellently made game. Easy criticisms aside.

>>713220848
This the thread would litterally be more effective if he just had a pic of bananza and said forced soul.

>>713221784
>DK Bananza for example looks brilliant put together
Dude wtf, you're high on Nintendo laughing gas. It's worse than a Lego game. There are no puzzles, no challenge whatsoever in what they've shown of that game. It's just a big empty copypaste world when you mash buttons to destroy shit. There's nothing to it. It's literally an insult to something like Donkey Kong Country games on the SNES or the goat arcade game on the NES

>>713222404
It's you who is high pal. That original DK arcade game has the same amount of craft put into it that a single challenge course in Bananza has.

>>713222404
>It's just a big empty copypaste world

? Kek

>>713222876
>>713222950
I admittedly didn't see the latest direct showcase for it. Just going off the reveal I pegged it as trash. It certainly does have more effort put into the movement and smash combinations you can do, also traversal options. But in the end it's still mainly a lego game. There isn't any challenge to it. I can guarantee you that Donkey Kong arcade and the SNES games will still beat your ass more than this new Donkey Kong. Challenge courses are tacked on wannabe arcade modes that don't really commit to being arcade fully because the control mechanics themselves were never meant for arcade gameplay. It's meant to be a casual collectathon. No real obstacles to avoid while alternating gameplay styles on the fly.

>>713216335 (OP)
There's the bing bing wahoo meme for a reason

>>713216335 (OP)
Awful bait. Made me read that garbage.

>>713216335 (OP)
Yeah well PS5 has no games, so

>>713221491
I dunno, I don't have that problem, I think Mario Odyssey is one of the greatest games ever made. Breath of the Wild is too. Kirby's in great shape, so is Metroid.

Certainly they've retained "soul" more than most other major companies if not ALL other major companies, I don't even know what to even compare them to, Squenix is a fucking joke compared to Squaresoft. Capcom puts out some nice stuff like Kunitsugami still. Sega's offerings are total consumerist gacha-flavored bullshit, just compare any Yakuza to Shenmue, or hell even any new Yakuza to OG Yakuza, and the difference is night and day.

>>713217328
uh oh

>>713216335 (OP)
>doesn't Nintendo outside of the NES/SNES feel soulless as a company?
actually it was soulful until I grew up, not whenever you grew up
nice try though

You know I just realized theres a certain movement of posts through a v thread where when ever a new thread comes up you'll have billigerent faggy anons giving their useless opinions at first and then leaving and it naturally culls the thread down to people who want to discuss and debate properly. Im shocked we dont have a name for this phenomena like a "first wave fags" because it seems the ones with the shittiest and quick remarks are first and anons on their level will label fpbp it then leave.

>>713231060
>Kirby's in great shape, so is Metroid.
Stop.

>>713231060
You might be on the younger side and not too familiar with the NES/Super Nintendo. I suggest going back and really immersing in that era. Those games still hold up phenomenally well today and put modern games to shame. See this video (ik IGN but still valid.)
https://youtu.be/UyLmDf_xdOI?t=13

>>713216335 (OP)
N64 and GameCube games were soulful though. Wii had that sterilized feel, but you could still feel the love poured into the games. It was the Wii U when everything started to feel entirely manufactured, but the 3DS still had soul.

>>713216335 (OP)
I know exactly what you are getting at and you make some really good points. If I see one of those dead eyed modern day Nintendo nerds with their lame switch devices when I'm out and about today I think I'm going to roundhouse kick them. Fuck Nintendo.

>>713216335 (OP)
This stopped being a good comparison ages ago. I hate tendies, but Nintendo has not stooped as low as Disney. Yet. They're walking towards that image, but they may start frantically dashing for it any moment now.

>>713216335 (OP)
You're touching on something relevant. The way I look at it starts with the fact that all games in a "franchise" are, by definition, forced. There can be nothing spontaneous about a sequel. We had a creative idea game one, and then out of necessity we try to milk it with a game 2 and it doesn't work. Most of the time all games in a "franchise" are marginally improved remakes of the original. Even franchises designed to be trilogies that end, like Halo or Mass Effect, always end up wearing out their welcome.

Starting with the 3D era, Nintendo has been more reliant on franchises. It especially picked up with the passing of Iwata. Splatoon was the last notable new game Nintendo made that wasn't part of a franchise. The game had soul. The soundtrack was good, the concept unique. But for more than a decade now, they have released nothing spontaneously creative. There were some smaller side project tech demos like Arms and Wii Fit Ring Adventure, but nothing as substantial as Splatoon, Custom Robo, Chibi Robo, Pikmin, F-Zero, or countless other examples from when they first released.

To be fair to Nintendo, all major game publishers are guilty of this to some extent. But Nintendo has been the most egregious of it as late. The Pokemon series is rivaled only by Madden and CoD by how incremental its so-called new entries are. And now we have complete open world sloppification of even franchises like Mario Kart and Donkey Kong. Every game Nintendo makes is becoming more and more homogenized and forced. And the people don't really care because they are unconscious manchildren enamored with the superficial aspects of games.

Nes and snes definitely had soul. The problem isn't necessarily that they no longer have soul but rather the world has changed so much that there's no mainstream entertainment that's soulful anymore. It's just the cultural zeitgeist where everything is just lowest common denominator/widest audience possible thing where stuff is fake and generic. Taylor swift is soulless, marvel movies are soulless, tv shows are soulless. Nintendo is operating in the same zeitgeist but they are at least doing as a respectable job as you can. Tears of the kingdom gets a lot of shit but it's honestly one of the more soulful mainstream games of the last decade. Plus Nintendo publishes xenoblade and its about as soulful as you can get nowadays. It's tough for anything this century to have soul

>>713233921
The Forgotten Land is objectively the best kirby game

This is a AI thread

>>713216335 (OP)
Tl;dr anon can't cope with aging and seeing the furniture of his idealized past change with time, reminding himself of his stagnation.
Nintendo constantly reinvents itself for its audiences. It isn't a company catered to middle aged men who never grew up.

I dont know what to tell you but to me 64 and especially sunshine and galaxy are more soulful games than whatever 1 to world was.

>>713220656
the post is embarrassing because you refuse to actually talk about what makes the games bad or more simplistic in any sense while acting enlightened for thinking "fun" games aren't actually "fun"

>>713235464
Totk had some amount of soul because it was clearly an original idea that they hamfisted a zelda coat of paint on. If they weren't weighed down by the baggage of forcing it to be in the Zelda universe, it would have been a much better. But it also would have sold much less and reviewed much lower even if it was released identical to what they put out.

Xenoblade isn't soulful at all beyond the first one you play in the franchise. If you played the first game, Xenoblade 2 and 3 are unplayable slop. X is tolerable because it tries to spin things off a little bit at least. But I'm biased towards X because I played X first before 1

>>713235831
>more soulful games than whatever 1 to world was.
You had to be there. Or at least have been in a world resembling that one.

>>713224976
>I admittedly didn't see the latest direct showcase for it.
just stopped reading here, if you were so confident to talk about a game in its entirety, without actually having seen anything of the fucking game itself, you seem like a massive faggot who just wants to shitpost about how soulless nintendo is without any actual discussion
i guess that shouldve been obvious from the fact that at no point in this thread have you actually gone on to talk about specific games and what exactly they're missing other than vague references to the "vitals" of 3d mario missing something

>>713216335 (OP)
The one thing Nintendo does that seriously differentiates them from Disney is Nintendo does not use copyright expired material aka Public Domain. The only Nintendo property that uses the public domain is Kid Icarus with characters like Hades and Medusa. The rest of Nintendo's game properties are original.

That aside Nintendo is shit and the sooner they die the better. As for Disney I wish them failure and death and may Kingdom Hearts 4 sell like shit.

>>713236031
XCX is the closest we can get to 'soul' in the modern era

>>713216335 (OP)
Nigger you like nigger cocks and you suck diiiiiiiiick

>>713234621
Annoying post. You've done nothing to actually discuss anything about game design that can lead to any interesting discussion on your topic, you just keep confidently asserting that things were better in the past because they were fun and not "fun". Kill yourself next time instead of throwing your tantrum in public for us all to see, christ.

>>713236159
That's a defensible take if you only play Nintendo games. The key to experiencing soul in the modern era is to play games from franchises you haven't played yet.

Another fucking zoomer who never lived through the nes/snes/gb/n64/cube era and is spouting nonstop garbage.
When will this end? I feel bad for them, but their opinions on shit they don't know NOTHING about borders on revisionism most of times. It's fucking annoying

Nintendo died when Iwata passed away, it's never been the same since. Reggie had good intentions and high hopes for Nintendo of America and it was Iwata that vouched for Reggie whenever other Nintendo execs and shareholders would show concern of a foreigner getting too involved with a Japanese company. Iwata dying is what made Reggie leave and it all fell apart from there. Even Miyamoto, who some may argue is a blight on Nintendo, still held the values Iwata had and respected him greatly but now he's an old mess handing over his IP's to let corporate soulless husks run them into the ground for money

Nintendo is dead, I don't care whatever this mimic wearing Nintendo's skin does or say it will never be what it was in 2015. It took them a decade to ruin everything for everyone

>>713236293
I played the silent hill 2 remake this year and it was lame. Only silent hill game I've tried. Same with sekiro.

>>713236503
Look at the bright side be glad Iwata died and Reggie left because it means we can see the mask fall off. We can see Nintendo Corporate exposed and do many nasty things which will KILL the mystique and good faith Nintendo used to have.

And sure there are annoying Nintendo Fanboys but Nintendo acting nasty will PREVENT new diehard fanboys from being born. I always support any company behaving as shitty as possible so that it shaves off customers. My hope is Nintendo keeps at it with more extreme actions. If anything I'm disappointed Mario Kart World cost eighty bucks when Nintendo should have charged the full one hundred.

>>713236674
BG3 AC6 AW2 ER Fate/Zero Remnant all had soul to me. Never played games in those genres before. CP77 had soul too but then I played San Andreas after and CP77 got revealed as forced soul to me

Samefag: The Thread

>>713236694
Inertia is more powerful than people really understand. So many institutions and mechanisms in this world are in place simply because they are incumbent. Nintendo has the strategy of brainwashing the kids young before they have the mental capacity to think critically. It will continue to work even with the stark dropoff in quality.

>>713234621
I've already played those games to death. They're very special but they don't invalidate all later achievements. Except maybe Super Metroid, probably nobody will ever top that.

if mario is mickey, who is donald? donkey kong?

>>713237412
>they don't invalidate all later achievements
>achievements
I wish I could be as rose-colored and glass half-full as you, anon. Generally I don't see how a large portion of /v/ talks about games in the past 5 years enthusiastically. I see the catalog and people are talking about games I have zero interest in. And I felt /v/ in particular used to be more against contemporary industry output constantly talking shit about it. But lot of people here like the stuff coming out. To me the industry is in terrible stagnant decline with many companies understandably getting shut down, yet game sales are through the roof. It doesn't add up to me. And people hype up nothing giving it the gold standard. When I heard a couple years back that people were saying the year Tears of the Kingdom came out was one of the best years in videogames ever, I felt like I was in bizarro world. It's like people are built with excitement over just the desire to have something quality and end up trying to fill that hole with anything mildly pleasing.

>>713236217
>>713236124
you glazed past the posts and didn't read the parts I mentioned modern Nintendo just flaccidly trying to be casual entertainment with a pseudo - "fun" factor. The "fun" they conceptualize around is just what they think will appeal at stockholder meetings. See: https://mynintendonews.com/2023/02/20/miyamoto-reiterates-nintendos-core-objective-is-to-bring-familys-together-in-living-room/

I don't hate fun. It's not the main factor that should drive the perception of a game though because it's shallow. A lot of games I consider fun didn't intend to be "fun" in the development cycle. They were intended to be engaging. Engaging is fun, but fun isn't engaging. Fun is casual and sleep-inducing. It's pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey. Everybody can do it so it's "fun". Ergo Miyamoto's philosophy from the article linked. Nintendo used to be premium and were known for seal-of-quality and challenge. They didn't have the fun philosophy back in the 80s and 90s. They made gamer consoles that weren't designed to be "for families". The family just naturally engaged with it because it was that provocative and pulling. Same with arcades in the early 80s. Groups of people of all kinds flocked to them because they were naturally interesting and inviting. They were exclusively intending to lure crowds by designing "fun". They made the game first and concentrated on the game.

>>713236124
The vital part that's missing in 3d mario is compression. 2d mario games felt like an adventure plenty enough without becoming open-stage. The level design never got boring it was always diversified and emphasized increasing challenge. You can feel progressively going along that the levels compress and get tighter with narrower pitfalls and expectations put on the player to manage and maintain the different abilities with strategic button presses. In 3d mario it's more so casual exploration. It's like those kindergarten pc games where you explore different worlds. only difference is 3d mario has more diversity in his movement. now exploring in a 3d space with less challenging gameplay would be fun as a kid. But that's where you see the philosophy is catered and geared towards this outcome. Appeal to kids. Nintendo wasn't really just for kids back in the 80s and 90s.