Thread 713260293

You now remember the Deionarra sensory stone

>>713260293 (OP)
updated my journal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZOuy4YM0AI
love deionarras theme btw

No... I don't.

Planescape's soundtrack was almost going to be done by Lustmord which really would have been something. But I am happy with Mark Morgan's work on it

>>713260293 (OP)
Of course, my love. Life is sacrifice — this I have learned.

>>713260293 (OP)
Probably the best written part of the game

>>713261930
It's a shame Morgan is a massive plagiarist

is there a more manipulative evil cunt than the practical incarnation in all of gaming?

>>713262430
It's between this and the dialogue with Ravel in her maze for me. Transcendant One at the end coming closely after - Dak'kon dialogue also underrated. Fall From Grace dialogue vastly overrated imo.

>>713260293 (OP)
This is the best written part of the game, and of any game ever created since Pong. This elevates the game to Art, and anyone that thinks otherwise is a drooling, shit for brains, AIDS-ridden brown moron faggot.

>>713262545
There was nobody even close, until we got Verso this year

>>713262545
I did my fourth playthrough recently and went full evil for the first time, hoping to mimic practical incarnation to some degree - I was bitterly disappointed by the roleplaying options though, good alignment feels vastly superior in every way. Most of the evil things just came down to me killing people impulsively, there weren't really any implications and your party doesn't really react.
I was looking forward to pushing Morte into the pillar of skulls and leaving him there this time, as it was about the most evil decision I could think of, and he just leaves your party and that's that. The end of the game in the Fortress of Regrets feels completely written for good alignment characters, and being evil just felt hollow by the end of the game.

PST was clearly inspired by JRPGs, and it makes the game much more charming. It's a shame the rest of the genre is either inspired by Bioware slop, or just throws walls of text at you and calls it being inspired by PST.

>>713262983
For as much as people praise PS:T as an RPG its story is pretty rigid.

>>713262983
Well, yeah. The game's goal is to find your redemption after all, it was written with that in mind.
Just like you benefit immensely more from high INT and high WIS

>>713263187
The ending only really makes sense from a very narrow interpretation of who TNO is as a character - him happily trotting off back to the Blood War only really makes sense from a redeemed/good alignment perspective

>>713263015
I'm pretty sure Avellone has cited Final Fantasy VII specifically as a massive influence on Planescape: Tormentt

>>713263187
The story is praised for its quality, not its flexibility yes.
It's only really recently that branching paths/different endings somehow became an expectation in all RPGs. Most classic RPGs - BG1/2, PS:T, Gothic, Morrowind - were all pretty honest about you being a hero that saves the world, despite some evil options here and there

>>713262983
>being evil just felt hollow by the end of the game.
that's how being evil works IRL
you'll see if you try an Evil Playthrough of life

>>713260293 (OP)
The practical incarnation did nothing wrong as far as she's concerned. Keeping her bound to the fortress of regrets was integral to defeating the transcendent one.

>>713263604
I wouldn't say that recent. Fallout had a pretty flexible story with multiple potential endings.

>>713263015
Like the other anon said, the devs proudly state that FF7 was a major influence on the game. Unfortunately, that influence affected the higher level spells which forced the player to sit through tedious "flashy" animations every time they cast one of them.

>>713263608
i meant more that your companions, the good incarnation, and transcendant one all act towards you like you're good aligned, even if you only do evil things throughout, and the final stretch of the game is when they engage directly with TNO's actions the most

>>713263647
Being murdered by a man who lied about loving her would probably bother her a little I would think

>>713264071
she is a willing victim in the end, which is the tragedy

>>713260293 (OP)
I know this has been said a thousand times before but I'm a newcomer to this game so please indulge me.
The entire idea of The Nameless One is so fucking clever. Not only is it just a really interesting narrative idea that they executed well in its own right, the meta subtext of how we use a character as a vessel to experience several "lives" over the course of replaying a CRPG is genuinely more thought provoking than any other game I've ever played. I actually feel more strongly about my own mortality and role in reality after playing Torment.

>>713264593
>How Torment broke me

>>713264593
The Planescape itself is pretty meta since it isn't really shaped by the belief of its residents but the beliefs an imagination of the players

>>713264593
Finding the tomb in the drowned nations blew my mind the first time

>>713263187
Narrative flexibility is overrated and many stories are undermined by allowing the player to do things that are out-of-character or thematically incoherent. I guess PST could've better accommodated an evil playthrough, but then what would the story be about? You were an evil bastard and you still are? Redemption is impossible?

>>713265412
Why's that?

>>713265452
>You were an evil bastard and you still are? Redemption is impossible?
I think that could have worked in the context of you obsessively trying to change your nature to prove Ravel wrong — you purposefully kill and fuck everything over to prove a point and then discover it was all meaningless because at the end of the day TNO is just a fuck up who kept getting it wrong

The first DnD game in which dexmaxxing was a bad idea.

>>713265452
I suppose an evil version of the story could be about you trying to maintain your immortality instead of destroying it.

Was it ever confirmed if TNO started the blood war? I forget.

>>713264593
I actually found it a bit disappointing, I think it could have taken the idea a bit further.
Truth: "They say the Planes are evil."

As someone who isn't a big DnD nerd is all the stuff in the Planescape setting still considered canon?

>>713265580
Came very unexpectedly — as I recall up until that point there's nothing to really point towards TNO being anyone of any real significance other than the fact he can't die. I think there's a couple of characters who act a bit shifty like they know more than they're letting on, but you haven't really found any evidence of your previous incarnations until that point.
You've just finished a dungeon crawl and would expect just to get a standard item based reward, then end up discovering that you must have been a pretty big deal to build a large tomb in such a remote area and fill it with traps.
Then there's the 'don't trust the skull' reveal.

>>713260293 (OP)
I missed it somehow... I thought I was done with the building, and was eager to leave

>>713261930
Meh, there are far too many tracks which are just yet another variation of the title theme. I believe he only had like 2 weeks to compose the whole thing and it definitely shows.

>>713265953
I never got the 'don't trust the skull' twist. Morte doesn't really lie (except by omission) or do anything underhanded.

>>713265718
No but it makes sense

>>713264593
Back when I played it for the first time in the late 2000's I thought the concept of a literally immortal MC was pretty daring gameplay wise. It's impossible to game over, you just respawn (but there are some story consequences for each death). However now every From game and their copycats all have this mechanic lmaooo

>>713266332
I actually liked the recurring themes and saw them as leitmotif. Maybe it was accidental but it made the different elements of the story feel more connected.
>>713266195
These warnings were likely left by the paranoid incarnation

>>713266136
I actually liked the recurring themes and saw them as leitmotif. Maybe it was accidental but it made the different elements of the story feel more connected.
>>713266195
These warnings were likely left by the paranoid incarnation

>The Nameless One loses his memory after every death
>Except when the player starts the game, where he remembers everything after death for no reason

This seems like such an obvious plot hole it's weird they don't try to address it at all.

>>713266195
That's kind of the point though - he's the first companion you come across and despite being a floating skull, essentially acts as a bridge for the player to understand wtf is going on in Sigil and the Planes. Then after trusting and going off everything he says for 1/3 of the game, that trust is totally undermined in an instant.
Unfortunately it doesn't get explored much more than that, but it's still a nice twist and tbf him knowing the answer to basically every question the game throws at you in the first 80% of the story and not being willing to tell you is fairly untrustworthy behaviour

>>713266734
It's heavily implied he only loses his memories when he is killed by the shadows, or over a much longer period than the game takes place in

>>713266659
>These warnings were likely left by the paranoid incarnation

Yeah, obviously, which is why it doesn't feel like some mind-blowing twist like people seem to believe it is.

>>713266734
Pretty sure they explain it isn't after every death

>>713266734
Didn't they did address it at some point during the game? I thought that remembered it being brought up a few times but I don't remember what the game's explanation was. I haven't played PST in a decade.

>>713266896
Yeah, now I remember. Ravel explains this I think.

>>713266897
that section is the first time you directly see something your previous incarnations have left behind — you don't know about the paranoid/practical incarnations at that point

>>713266896
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo96PgA35mA
Aren't you killed by the shadows in the alley?

>>713267750
Yes — which is why you wake up in the mortuary with no recollection of what happened, and Annah later reveals she found you in the alley and brought you back to Pharod. It's a flashback.

>>713268158
Ah, I haven't played the game in years and only remembered the cutscene without the context. Makes sense.

>>713263604
Morrowind is the opposite of being honest about the character being the hero, on a surface level you are the reincarnation of Nerevar fated to fulfill the prophecy and save Morrowind, but when you look into it the Nerevarine is just a pawn of Azura that fullfil steps she arbitrarily created and disseminated through a made up prophecy that could apply to literally anyone that fit her, and the emperor's/the balde's plan and the main players just go along with it because it breaks the status quo.

>>713269007
>it was all le conspiracy
Explain why the Moon-and-Star ring works.

>>713269123
..because Azura makes it work?

>>713269386
The ring kills everyone but Lord Nerevar, and the MC was able to put it on. I feel like this single fact completely invalidates the theory that the prophecy was fake all along.

>>713269007
I was talking about the hero from a player standpoint, obviously
In PS:T also you're not saving the whole world

>>713262983
>Being bad has.... BAD CONSEQUENCES????

>>713269883
Read Dune

>>713270282
erm, that's literally the point in the post - it doesn't have any consquences in the game

>>713263364
That's because only the Good Ending made it to release. An Evil and Neutral ending were also planned, they even got their own themes on the OST, but ultimately had to be cut.

They were so rushed for time that the entire Curst section was outsourced to a different studio altogether.

>>713266195
Morte was the man who lied to the Good Incarnation about the nature of Ravel's ritual, hiding from him that he would lose his memories.

>>713270491
If you're evil you really don't get the real and true ending, though. You also lose all the actual interactions with the characters. So yes, it has consequences. You get a shit ending + lose all the cool stuff and extra dialogue + you don't get to save anyone. I guess you can steal from people and have a lot of money, which is a logical benefit. But don't complain you got exactly what an evil character would get in the same situation, especially in a story about redemption.

>>713270956
>the entire Curst section was outsourced to a different studio altogether
Didn't know that - I always put the fact it feels like a different game down to it just being rushed, but that makes complete sense

>>713271094
An evil character, via the Anarchists, can join all the factions on a single playthrough. He gets unique interactions with Dak'kon, including a different resolution to his personal quest, as well as with Ignus. He gets a ton of unique interactions throughout the game, actually, but a bunch of them also often have Strength requirements, something nobody invests into.

>>713271094
You're 100% wrong on all those counts - that's exactly what I expected from an evil playthrough, but you still have the conversation with the good incarnation as before, the bronze sphere still works, and you don't lose out on any character interactions. I was shocked you could still invoke two deaths as one with Dak'kon despite being evil.

>>713266734
>>713266896
>>713266934
>>713267750
You are all incorrect. The Practical Incarnation's greatest achievement was that he discovered and carried out a ritual that would stop further deaths from erasing his memory.

Unfortunately, the Rule of Three kicked in, and said ritual would only activate for the third incarnation to come - the player. That's why he devised this super convoluted plan to get (You) to him in the first place.

>>713263737
Fallout 1 and 2 only have 2 endings. You die or you save your vault/village.

Honestly how the fuck was our player character so powerful? Even your own mortality managed to no dif a all powerful witch and you then go ahead and no dif your own mortality if you want to.

>>713271471
>You are all incorrect. The Practical Incarnation's greatest achievement was that he discovered and carried out a ritual that would stop further deaths from erasing his memory.
Not referenced in the game, only in the novel.

>>713272023
Belief

>>713260293 (OP)
Hell of a game. Makes me wonder how many completely missed recruiting Ignus.

>>713260293 (OP)
>If there is anything I have learned in my travels across the Planes, it is that many things may change the nature of a man. Whether regret, or love, or revenge or fear - whatever you believe can change the nature of a man, can. I’ve seen belief move cities, make men stave off death, and turn an evil hag's heart half-circle. This entire Fortress has been constructed from belief. Belief damned a woman, whose heart clung to the hope that another loved her when he did not. Once, it made a man seek immortality and achieve it. And it has made a posturing spirit think it is something more than a part of me.

>>713272162
Its written in one of the panels inside the fake tomb

>>713260293 (OP)
Was this the best RPG to make use of stat checks until Disco Elysium made it its entire point? I remember CON checks always resulted in weird shit that got you more health in the long run.

>>713272785
No it fucking isn't.
This is the most relevant inscription and doesn't say anything like that:
>There is nothing that can be done. Memories are gone, perhaps never to return. With every death I lose a part of me.
>How can one be immortal and still die?
>He told me that my mind is weakening with every death. I asked him how this could be, but he could not answer. He was of no use. I butchered him so that no other incarnation would ever benefit from his uselessness.

I don't understand why people consider a mage the only class worth playing. I enjoyed a thief much more:
>can still experience all meaningful story content and stat boosts by swapping classes
>stealth and backstab shenanigans actually make him fun to play
>can get away with low physical attributes in the early game
>cute class-specific conversations with Annah
>fast leveling, can farm the Undersigil to quickly increase stats and cover all meaningful checks
>punchdaggers are the best weapon class in the game if you have a high luck
But frankly, you should've been able to use all unlocked classes at once, but gain experience only in the current main class.

>>713272023
Wasn't it supposed to be that TNO has lived so many different lives that he's essentially max level in all classes, but he can't remember?
Either way, he was probably fairly skilled or powerful before he gained immortality anyways.

>>713266659
>paranoid incarnation
Man. I love that part at the end when you talk to him and if you took the effort to learn the secret language the entire situation peacefully resolves itself.

>>713272919
The only stat that really matters is WIS, everything else is situational, or you can have a party member do it.

>>713273271
My bad, it's inside the paranoid journal

>There is NOTHING he can do. Memories are GONE, he says, NEVER to return. He says/lies and tells me this is what he told me! LIES! He says my mind is WEAKENING from every death! LIES! He sat there, BETRAYING my CONFIDENCE with every turn.
He says that only after THREE MORE DEATHS, THREE MORE LIVES will I gain the benefit of keeping my memories, but that I, MYSELF, I will DIE when I die. DIE! How can one be immortal and still DIE?! He could not answer, so he was of NO USE. I BUTCHERED him so that no other incarnation will ever benefit from his USELESSNESS.

>>713273470
INT and CHA are just as good in dialogues, even though WIS is universally useful gameplay wise.
DEX has one incredibly based option, but otherwise it's just for silently killing people you don't have to kill.
STR is pretty pointless outside on bonking harder.
Maxed CON gives you insane regeneration, but it's useless in conversations.

>>713274408
Yes - and it still doesn't say anything about the practical incarnation performing some kind of ritual to prevent the memory loss.
That's not in the game. Only in the novel - which is "loosely based on the story".
It's an unfinished plot thread that's essentially been head canoned.