Thread 713277627

>Play RPG
>Warriors get multiple armor and weapon types with varying stats/uses
>Mages get some cloth robes and maybe two different wood staves at the most
Why are developers afraid of letting mages equip shit

I don't complain since I always go unarmed

>>713277627 (OP)
Its not balanced
Mages should always be one shottable, otherwise you get havel mages like dark souls 1

Because you have a party and each character is supposed to play a role which emphasizes their particular toolset. It's not Elder Scrolls where the player character can do everything and have every skill, since they'd have too little utility otherwise.

>>713277627 (OP)
Because mages are overpowered why are you asking why water is wet? Have you played one single video game?

>>713278102
but i need to be a heckin battlemage because i have no self control and cant handle having a downside!

>>713277627 (OP)
Great we're at the town shop, black mages can't equip shit so I'll wait outside
just wait outside

>>713278218
>but i need to be a heckin battlemage
The battle mage is literally IN the OP's image as the Red Mage

>>713277627 (OP)
If mages could be both effective fighters and effective spellcasters there would be no point to fighters.
If you mean it in technical terms, then it's because the game in question likely doesn't feature proficiency bonuses/penalities so your mages would end up with similar stats as the fighters, creating a more homogenized party.

>>713278374
Yeah but it has downsides so it doesn't fit the OP power fantasy retards crave.

>>713277976
Just offset this by giving better armors magic damage penalties.
They'll take no damage, but they won't deal any either.

>>713277627 (OP)
mages have magic variety warriors have equipment variety

>>713279605
What do Rogues get?

>>713277627 (OP)
Arbitrary nonsense "balance"
Anyone going out to fight demons and shit better be strong as fuck and have a sword on their hip just in case. All of them.

>>713279902
If you could shit fireballs you probably wouldn't bother buying a sword.
Might still want to wear some armor tho.

>>713279658
Skill variety
FF doesn't do it as well but Dragon Quest had the thief be the money and treasure skills as well as steal. As well as the jew and jester class that rounds out the Skill monkeys.

>>713277627 (OP)
Well the mage has lots of different magic attacks and the warrior can only auto attack so you gotta give them "variety' in other areas

>>713280154
A good mage would at least have a holdout weapon in case they run out of mana. The shitting fireballs on a cool down timer has only been a recent update in rpgs.

>>713277627 (OP)
"a strong mage with armor would be unbalanced." and?

the purpose of a party is that each member has a role and that they all need to work together. the mage is supposed to be in the back, where they are protected by the frontline so they dont get hit.

>>713277627 (OP)
Why do (white) mages get hammers and warriors only get swords and axes?
Shouldn't warriors as tall, physically strong, fit, agile and well trained people get to use hammers as they are heavy weapons, while mages as physically weak people get swords because they are lightweight and easy to use?

>>713277627 (OP)
QUIT WITH THE BITCHIN' GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN

>>713280958
I think the question is whether it looks like an incense burner or just another religious architecture.

>>713277627 (OP)
Mages get to buy spells, warriors do not. If we're talking FF at least.
>>713278276
There was a time people on here would know this lyric.

>play rpg
>wizard is supposed to be physically weak with limited equipment options to balance out having powerful spells
>but actually he gets special wizard only equipment and buff spells that make him stronger than the fighter
>while still having magic that does everything else too
why did wizard become such an obvious developer's pet class? is it because they think it's a nerd class and identify with it?

>>713279658
they pick locks and disarm traps

>>713278276
GAY LEO!

>>713280958
white mages in ff1 are based on dnd clerics. the whole game is dnd/dragonlance lite because kawazu is a mega grognard.

>magic is powerful
>magic has ridiculous utility
>magic has range
>meanwhile warriors have to run into melee range to hit the monster with a stick
Them getting gear variety is fine.

>>713281693
Depends on the game.
ADOM made mages OP because they could snipe most enemies before they could hit you, avoiding many abhorrent effects like permanent stat drain, 100% armor pierce, corruption or dooming from meleeing Karmic beings, while warriors were super-hard mode and any unlucky hit could ruin your run.
Salt and Sanctuary on the other hand literally made most of the lategame bosses resistant to magic, while either hammers or axes could shred trough them. I think the best hammer took only 12 attacks to kill the final boss and it even had the fast swing flag.
Most RPGs lie somewhere in between.

>>713281693
Many people unfamiliar with RPGs tend to assume wizards are weak and difficult to play until the late-game. I assume devs overcompensate to keep new players from thinking they picked a hard class and possibly dropping the game.

>>713281693
It's magic, that's inherently better than swinging a stick around no matter how you slice it.

>>713281693
whats wrong with a mage that can create things of thin air to use a magic weapon

>>713282193
Warriors are superiour to mages. Warriors are sturdy, hardy, fast agile and, most of all, much strionger than mages. A mighty warrior can break all of a mages bones in a single swing. A LV 1 spellcaster may beat a LV 1 peasant with a pitchfork, but a mighty martial champion will break any mage in seconds.
Even though warriors with magic weapons and items are even better.

>>713281693
The very concept of magic in RPGs inherently invokes this. Magic is utility. Not having magic means not having utility, and often the bigger numbers in combat aren't enough to make up for this. It's why DnD introduced feats in an attempt to give fighters utility.

>>713282193
that defeats the purpose of a level system. the whole point is that level 1 of anything is equivalent to level 1 of anything else. you can't just say "uhhh my level 10 wizard is actually as strong as a level 40 fighter because he's special ok."

>>713282556
>but a mighty martial champion will break any mage in seconds.
He isn't even going to approach without getting fireball'd first. Basically no different than putting a martial artist against me with a gun.

>>713282193
>teleport behind you
>swing at you.
Nothing personal magicfag

>>713282701
a fireball hitting a high-level martial is inconsequential, and if using a D&D-like system can do actually nothing if they have evasion

>>713282701
He is gonna roll out of the way and the fireball will go into the wall. Warriors are more agile and have more stamina than mages.

>>713277627 (OP)
Mages are suppose to be spellcasters and their spells are sometimes like miniature nukes for hitting multiple enemies.
Also, mages indirectly came from the concept of ancient European sorcerer-priests who dressed like ghosts (flowing robes and pointy hoods or hats) in order to manipulate ghosts/spirits of the outdoors to perform rituals. They were normally suppose to carry tools that would not scare them off except when collecting herbs or the use of specially made equipment with runes or other symbolic inscription.

>>713282656
this is just a problem of utility being massively undervalued by game designers. look at dungeons and dragons where a level 5 wizard can learn fly, invisibility, and fireball, while a fighter is only getting a bonus feat for +1 to hit with a specific weapon.

>>713277627 (OP)
Because mage variety is in its wide range of moves while warrior just selects attack

>>713282696
Your take leads me to believe that you've become passively aware of the power gap issue but not aware enough to understand why it's actually happening.

>>713282807
Shit man what's their body made of if they can just shrug a literal ball of fire?

>>713282842
Unless it's a goddamn DS character I guess.

>>713282706
>teleport
That's magic

>>713279658
High number of attacks per-turn and high speed in FF1, also minor black magic after upgrading to Ninja

>>713277627 (OP)
spellcasters usually get daggers as well as staves, unless they're healers/clerics where they get maces too. the hybrids like red mage can use swords as well.

if you wanna talk about a pigeonholed class that gets fuck all for weapon types then it's thieves and monks.

Developers aren't afraid of anything, you're the one afraid of actually playing what you want and branching out.
>>713281892
Sort of, it's a bit more complex than that, White, Red and Black mages are nods to Dragonlance's orders of mages, but with some added Wizardry elements.
https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Order_of_the_White_Robes
https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Red_Robes
https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Black_Robes
So white mages are not really based on clerics, because white robe mages are still technically arcane casters and can't heal for shit, they're a bit of both, he also dropped this idea entirely with FF because it's kinda silly.

>>713278374
Thing is RM fucking sucks

>>713282975
>a literal ball of fire
a magic one
if you want realistic results don't introduce magic

>>713277627 (OP)
Because then you would complain that warriors get nothing cool going for them

>>713282930
The problem is you either balance the game around having the utility, or you nerf the game out of consideration for the fighters who don't have it. DnD balances around having utility, since they assume by being a party based game that you will have some wizards. The fighters are supposed to get their utility from their party members, but this solve the issue of their gameplay being basically auto-pilot. This becomes a more noticeable problem in video games where you only play one character.

>>713277627 (OP)
>Be warrior
>Find wand of fireball
>Find wand of teleport
>Can now do anything that mages can do but also fight in melee, not need any mana and be stronger, faster and fitter overall.

>>713277627 (OP)
Mages get spells to boost stats and the get ribbons in FF which are OP as fuck. Instead of body armour they get armbands and etc shit along with helms only for mages that boost stats. They also have higher evasion and can cast spells in the backrow.

Do you even play video games. Also mages are normally busted as fuck in every game because magic is so fucking OP they can easily one shot final bosses with a few buffs well before warriors can one shot the boss.

>>713282975
No, teleporting like that isn't considered magic, it's the result of long training, it's like how marital artists can train to punch mountains and stuff

>>713278276
quit with the bitchin now get back in the kitchen

>>713283643
Eh depends. Martials certainly can't teleport in older RPGs and tabetop, the game is built around having spellcasters or get fucked.

>>713283332
big problem too of both players and developers being dumb mongrels when it comes to fighters getting anything, 4E had the weeaboo book of fightan magic which made the completely natural assumption that with every class becoming the pinnacle of their craft as they approached max level, fighters should begin becoming so good at fighting they're superhuman or borderline, and anybody can pick up magical tricks over time (it's the entire justification for bard having magic as a class that they're well traveled and learned lots of stuff over time)

instead, basically, wizards screeched that fighters got anything resembling a magical effect, so they remained attack-bots in 5E, where the battle master archetype was supposed to just be part of the vanilla class but again their internal teams screeched at the thought of fighter actually being good at anything but attack actions

>>713283819
older RPGs like daggerfall just litter you with magic items that end up turning into >>713283386 scenario instead
and in older tabletop the spellcasters would need martial bodyguards too early on or they could risk dying to a regular cat once their single spell slot's done

Random question, do you like power systems where power is tied you and you stick with what you have or powers where you can learn most abilities?
I feel the latter might break society

>>713283819
The strongest characters in Dungeons and Dragons are Tarrasques, Krakens and the likes, who are in fact martials.

>>713283113
Assuming you are actually playing the NES version of ff1, red mage is amazing. In subsequent rereleases, not so much though.

>>713284023
may be an autism thing but I prefer the latter sorta because permanent progression on my character feels like a "stain" that can't be undone, whereas if all my progression is tied to equipment and personal player skill I could theoretically go back to my starting equipment and be the same as if I just started

>>713284107
I wasn't really counting monsters.

>>713283958
I made a character in Daggerfall with "No spellcasting in the dark", "No spellcasting in the light", "Stunted magicka" and dumped int and willpower. I got so many points that I could get a crapton of HP, Athleticism, expertise in blunt weapons and very high strength and speed.
With this build I ended up shredding trough the entire game on steroids. Nothing could stand against my might. I was just too fast.
This shows that even in old RPGs, martial fighting is superiour.

>>713283958
A party of spellcasters with maybe one bodyguard for early game can overcome most foes.
A party of martials is fucked unless every encounter is designed around being beatable by swinging.

>>713283332
it's still not even attempting to balance what each class gets per level. in no reasonable universe is the sum of what a level 5 fighter gets equal to what a level 5 wizard gets. imagine that you are the developer and are creating classes with a behind the scenes point buy system. what drugs would you have to be on to think "hmm yes +1 to hit that's about 20 points. ability to fly? 3 points at most."?

>>713284570
examples? because if we're talking D&D then encounters have to be designed with the inevitability that your wizards are retarded and prepared stupid spells, or wasted all their slots, so the only recourse is swinging
a party of martials is only fucked in /tg/ white room scenarios that don't see actual games

>>713282930
>>713284709
level 5 fighters get extra attack, not an ASI

>>713277627 (OP)
because the weapon shop for the black mage is the magic shop just down the street, blame modern rpgs for making spellcasters get their shit automatically

>>713284840
the extra attack is supposed to be balanced with the fireball which can hit multiple targets.

>>713284107
super monsters are martials so players can have a chance of beating them. the mage equivalent of a tarrasque would be the dm saying "a wizard from another dimension went back in time and killed your parents before you were born. everyone make new characters."

>>713284195
He's clearly inferior to BM early on since he takes longer to get the multi enemy spells, also BM makes random battles go way faster since he also has more casts. Late game you'll just be using items anyway so both are useless in that aspect.
>but he has low hp
just stick him on the last slot of the party.
>RM can still melee stuff at least
Just bring in another fighter if you need more melee, RM is a shit healer and a shit damage dealer

>>713285124
>"a wizard from another dimension went back in time and killed your parents before you were born. everyone make new characters."
what spell is that?

>>713285257
A lesser form of the Genocide spell.

>>713285679
from what game?

>>713285124
>super monsters are martials so players can have a chance of beating them.
wizard BBEGs are never used because they are famously known to be unbeatable

>>713285726
Genocide is from Nethack. It deletes the entire targeted race from history.

>>713285124
Super monsters are martials because martials are more powerful than mages.

>>713285861
then it's not exclusive to wizards

>>713285980
I was just answering questions. I wasn't aware I was arguing something.

>>713286026
that is fair, apologies

>>713285825
those wizards have to be played as holding back. if the dm was a metagaming cunt with them and played with their full potential they would be unbeatable.

>>713286159
>if the dm was a metagaming cunt
then a wizard is irrelevant to causing a TPK, "rocks fall everyone dies" doesn't require anything

>>713285825
>Wizard BBEG
>Distract him by setting off explosives.
>Heroic warrior comes swinging from behind with his grappling hook.
>Kicks magic BBEG to the floor.
>Crushes it in one hit with his maul because mages are weak.

>Martial BBEG
>Mage hero throws fireball at him.
>5% damage.
>Martial BBEG starts spamming a boatload of attacks in one turn.
>Mage hero gets crushed in second.

>>713286442
>>Martial BBEG starts spamming a boatload of attacks in one turn.
The issue is that he won't even reach the mage. Also the mage would cripple the martial first.

>>713286608
>The issue is that he won't even reach the mage.
This is irrelevant to any character who can use a bow i.e. martials.
>Also the mage would cripple the martial first.
This is fanfiction, because mages have poor initiative due to dumping physical stats.

>>713286608
>Mage hero casts "hold person" to cripple martial BBEG
>Martial BBEG resists because he is a boss and hold person only works on trash mobs
>Mage hero wastes turn
>Martial BBEG mauls him to death

>>713278374
ashchtually red mage are more spell sword coded

every thread like this reaches the point where everyone is arguing using vague abstractions instead of specific video games and the argument goes nowhere because everyone is right according to their own meaningless hypothetical headcanon

>>713277627 (OP)
Its balanced because mages get a couple dozen spells to cast while warriors just get to do normal attacks.

>>713287061
>only way to make a martial threatening is straight up giving him magic immunities
Uh

>>713286336
a high level wizard using the rules as written can already hide in another dimension, scry the party's location, and then use any number of spells to kill them. this is just a regular wizard, not even an epic level tarrasque tier one.

>>713287061
>Martial BBEG resists because he is a boss and hold person only works on trash mobs
This annoys me greatly. Confusion, paralysis, sleep, ect. are useless in almost every game because every non-trash encounter is immune to all of them. Also extends to the instant-kill spells which are super expensive and only work on the lowest level enemies in the game.

>fighter bullies you at the tavern
>hit him with the ol' [delayed spell: greater erectile disfunction] when he's not looking

when will they learn?

>>713287493
This is because magic kind of sucks.
Bashing the enemy into pieces with superiour martial prowess remains the most effective way to dispose of mighty foes.

>>713277976
But then the warriors become better than the mages instead
So that's not balanced either
Mages need to have actual utility. In alot of RPGs they have no pros and only cons

>>713287335
name the spells being used for each of these actions
in any case, that doesn't refute the fact that the dm doesn't need a wizard to cause a tpk

>>713287335
assuming you're talking about D&D there is a fairly basic item that blocks all scrying.

>>713278459
Except that in alot of RPGs fighters and rangers also have ranged attacks
So mages just become a squishy inferior class with no utility
I think game devs focus too much on gimping mages

>>713287191
obviously, nobody here plays video games and I don't know if I'll ever get a response if I reference Tales of Maj'Eyal
>wizards do shit damage but are borderline impossible to kill once they start rolling
>martial classes can oneshot superbosses with ease but can die in a second
>arcane blade can be borderline invincible while doing a shit ton of damage but only if you build it counterintuitively

>>713277627 (OP)
Its balance half that team cant even get anything in the magic shop. The other melee user on the team can barely equip anything either while the red mage has every shop at his disposal

>>713278824
What's the downside for being a warrior though?
Doesn't seem like there is one
>>713280580
Mages dont have a role, atleast in ff1.
In most games other classes can do their job better.

>>713288195
>Everyone sucks

>>713288292
the opposite, everyone is fun
except alchemist

>>713281693
The exact opposite is true retard. In ff1 mages were weak and offered no advantage.
The perception of mages is that they are weak. And that's because in most RPGs they are a gimped class with little utility.
Other classes often get ranged or magic attacks without the physical weakness

>Warriors SUCK
>Mages SUCK
>Archers SUCK
>Bards SUCK
>Spellblades SUCK
>Monsters SUCK
>Modern gunmen and Sci Fi gunmen SUCK too
Everyone SUCKS and is a jobber equally!!! Deal with it.

>>713288497
But if everyone sucks nobody does.

>>713277627 (OP)
Holdover from the DnD days where the idea is that a mage is a glass cannon. You can one-shot assholes or turn their dick into a venomous snake that'll bite them to death, but casting takes time, your spell use resources are limited, and the mage can't take a hit. Unfortunately this has gotten really fucked up in the last 20 years, where casters have lost all the cannon but kept the glass for the sake of balance.

>>713280468
Thats a boss retard

>>713278276
Clicked on this thread just in hopes of finding this and was not disappointed, thank you.

>>713277627 (OP)
>let all classes equip anything they want
>each class has different carry weight that discourages mages from going full heavy armor
>allow characters to gear overweight if they really want to while incurring a meaningful penalty that still has specific advantages in some situations
Problem solved. Locking gear to a specific class is a mistake. Design items in a way that clarifies why a specific class would benefit most from it and let the player make the final call themselves.

>>713277627 (OP)
Wizards being stuck with robes and sticks is from way back when it was because they needed the flexibility to do silly dances 'n shit to cast spells. That concept has nigh completely eroded, but the look remained.

What are you talking about? There are plenty of staff options in Final Fantasy. And plenty of different kinds of robes, too.

>>713277848
Based

>>713290907
I would just say
>Heavy armor
>Slow tank with health regen on hitting enemies, most powerful style but highest skill point cost, meaning you get less point to invest into other things like weapons, special attacks and utility skills
>Light armor
>Decent speed and protection. Medium skill point investment.
>Robes
>Fast glass cannon that dies in a few hits, weakest style overall, but lowest skill point cost.

>>713277627 (OP)
They're not. Why would you say otherwise?

>>713287493
Same here anon. Doing my own game and tried really hard to avoid it. You know what it took? Drop the freeze/sleep/timestop and insta death status. That's fucking it, no idea why so many games still rely on full immunities.

>>713277627 (OP)
>Wahhh. Mages should get everything that every other class gets!
>But don't give other classes spells like the mage has, that would be unfair!
Kys

>>713291824
Insta death status is fucking retarded game design and the only way to make it not completely batshit overpowered is making every major boss and elite enemy immune and give the player a way to obtain immunity, which consequently turns instant death into underpowered garbage.
Insta death status is by default either overpowered or useless and never good game design.

>>713287061
>>713287493
As much as I like DND Its a fucking shit system

Low levels are filled with random omeshots, but its more of a tool to get a story going, and some RP
High levels are extremely geared towards "Save or die", mostly because the game scaling means more rounds for combat is bad, and the GM is suppose to fudge edge rolls to speed up the process anyhow.
It always remains interesting what adaptions of DND do away with. The key one is either the HP system, or making the Roll or Die into very niche systems

>>713292051
Choreographed instant death can be used to pressure the player into focusing on specific targets first.

>>713292051
t. never played SaGa games

>>713290907
No its not the advanced jobs let fighters use magic and anyone can use the magic items that function as unlimited spells

>>713283113
Eat a dick, nigga.

>>713292440
>never played some of the most obtuse and boring excuses for jarpigs ever designed
there's a reason SlopGa never went mainstream, because it fucking sucks ass and is just an excuse for Kawazu to fellate himself.

>>713292051
Exactly, just a fuck you to the player. I think it's a holdover from TTRPGs where it's more about flavour, and you've got a human to mediate. Preperation is a much bigger part of the TTRPG tradition because these where books that you bought and read before meeting with your friends on the weekend. They were not video games where you only learn that a monster exists when you meet it.
One thing that also sucks is spells that just attempt to inflict a status and do nothing else. You have no idea what your chances are or if the enemy is immune, so you're just wasting turns. I get you want some variance, but at least fall back to the monster hunter/dark souls method of building up a meter.

>>713292197
D&D is 40 years of narrative conventions, unspoken rules and sacred cows. The players hated it when 4e tried to be gameplay first.
While the human element can make pretty much anything work or just houserule, it's a terrible base for a video game.

>>713292818
>SaGa
>Not mainstream
Maybe in the west where "people" like you buy nothing but trash like Final Fantasy, and even there you still have a sizeable cult following with several small devs being influenced by it and paying respect to the series.

>>713292896
>it's a terrible base for a video game.
Seeing how much Ultima, FF and DQ tossed out to make it work, I am not even sure if I agree or disagree.

>>713277627 (OP)
Mages in FF1 can learn a bunch of different spells, while warriors can equip almost any weapon and armor in the game (which doesn't mean much, because the weapons and armour that other classes can use are weaker than the ones limited to warriors only).

>>713293435
If it didn't make it in the west, it's for a reason. Westerners actually have good taste in RPGs and even a mediocre WRPG/CRPG btfos "masterpiece" JRPGs effortlessly.
No Japanese game has come close to matching Fallout 1/2, Planescape Torment, Neverwinter Nights 2, KOTOR, hell we can reach back to some hood classics that JRPGs can't even hold a candle to like Pool of Radiance and Dark Sun: Shattered Lands.

>>713278218
That can work if the RPG features a one man "party" (like dragon quest 1).

>>713293794
>If it didn't make it in the west, it's for a reason
Yes, the reason being Square completely torpedoing the series by renaming the game boy games to be part of the Final Fantasy umbrella, refusing to localize the SNES games and then killing it off like every IP that isn't FF.
>No Japanese game has come close to matching Fallout 1/2, Planescape Torment, Neverwinter Nights 2, KOTOR
Utter delusion from a mentally unhealthy mind, nobody serious praises gutter trash like NWN2 or KOTOR, go back to your /vrpg/ hugbox before you embarass yourself further.

>>713292508
I know 1. I'm just saying when you see a caster in modern fiction and go "why the fuck is he in robes for and not armor like the battlemage? he's just chanting too" it's because of that.

>>713287335
Then the mega super duper OP monster ffies at mach 50 and gores your party before anyone can react.

>>713294009
>nobody serious praises gutter trash like NWN2 or KOTOR
Here, let me speak a language you can understand mr. jarpiggie
"oink oink oink oink oink oink"

Bro in the old FF’s sometimes the items were magic and would cast spells, so no you’re wrong just use those

>>713277627 (OP)
Play Eye of the Beholder. A fighter mage can equip anything and still cast.

>>713293476
I'm sure back then it was as much about saving memory/compute as any gameplay considerations.
For a modern example, look at the Pathfinder games. They certainly offer you a lot of cool stuff, but both choices and information is incredibly frontloaded with massive consequences hours later in the game. Like I'm sure there's an explanation somewhere for why all my +1 boni don't stack, but I'm not finding that after already reading a novel worth of class descriptions. And I don't appreciate that half my fighter perks are useless because I didn't know that there are no rapiers in the game, or that I have to pick blind fight because every endgame enemy has evasion, etc.
It's the assumption that you're already familiar with the system, I just don't think that this is something modern players want. And as a dev you certainly can't rely on it when you're not the giant established player.

>>713277627 (OP)
Never forget the original Dragon Quest 2 which had such a poor selection of weapons for the Prince of Cannock that his best weapon ended up being a basic Iron Spear that you could buy in shops.

Mages get their abilities from spells and the staves augment their spells and work as an inefficient melee weapon.
Ideally the mage should be the most powerful member in the party but also the most fragile, with knowledgeable players able to bypass the fragility to become grand wizards.

>>713277627 (OP)
>Diablo 1
>Warrior, Rogue, and Sorcerer
>Warrior has high strength so he can equip the best weapons and armor
>Rogue is all about using bows with high dex requirements
>Sorcerer is supposed to be all about spells and mana shield with weaker armor class and weapons
>uhm actually the Sorcerer can just equip everything the Warrior has because it is easy to boost strength high enough to do so
>now the Sorcerer is the best at using spells and even tankier than the Warrior

>>713289954
That's a lot of work to implement a pretty pointless feature most players would ignore

>>713296510
It wouldn't be pointless if the decision to equip [item a] [item b] or [item c] was fundamentally impossible to ignore due to strong encounter design and multiple strategic considerations for why you'd want x character equipping one of those over the other.
But most JRPGs fail in encounter design by default and barely ask players to do ANYTHING to begin with, so it's no surprise you'd say something like that.

>game lets you equip everything
>clearly still favours a certain weapon type

Oblivion Remaster reminding people how terrible anything besides 1 handed blades was in the original.

>>713277627 (OP)
>play old RPG
>go to shop
>can't tell what items each character can equip without first buying it, going into the menu, and then finding out manually
>9 times out of 10 the item is incompatible with your character
>you sell the item and only make back 50% of the cost

Infuriating.

Post underrated RPG classes
For me, it's the happy merchant

>>713298317
Dragon's Dogma had some cool weird shit in every game. Their alchemist is my favourite incarnation of the monk archetype, with double jumps, perfect counters, mines, shotgun and C4.

>>713277627 (OP)
>Play RPG
>mages get multiple spells and magic schools with varying stats/uses
>warriors get at most maybe one healing spell at a very high level
Why are devs afraid of warriors cast shit?

>>713292026
>crushing melee sound
>perished
>"""""""""""""""""""wizard"""""""""""""""""