Thread 713423714

Why is Chrono Trigger the only game with Chrono Trigger's battle system?

>>713423714 (OP)
It's not?

FF7 and other ATB games use the same feature.

>>713423741
FF7 cuts to a traditional battle screen. I think OP is referring to the way CC battles take place in the field.

>>713423714 (OP)
The camera angle?

That's also something you can find in other games like Grandia.

>>713423791
Yea and also the way enemy position matters for what moves hit them.

>>713423714 (OP)
I am Setsuna is a good recommend homage from Square.

>>713423791
Parasite Eve's battles also do not cut away to a separate area.

>>713423741
?? Have you played ff7 before?

I never understood what's good about a system where all skills are position-based but you can neither influence your nor the enemy's position

>>713423970
CT fans didn't understand that either, don't worry, just accept that it's good because it just is and if you disagree you're a contrarian

>>713423970
that surprised me when i first played chrono trigger. i knew there was pattern and position to the skills, but then you can't do anything about it to line up enemies, so it's just "one enemy, small aoe, full screen" at the end of the day, and you gain nothing compared to the four niggas in a line system.
i also found the game to be boring and too long, after the third time they go "actually none of this matters and this is what actually matters" i dropped it. apparently i wasn't even halfway through the game.

>>713423928
Yes?

kys passfag

>>713423970
Well because it gives you a lot of things to take into account.
Different moves have different AoE properties so you have to weigh which one is gonna be the most useful.
You might even have to think about whether it's more beneficial to sit on a full ATB gauge waiting for enemies to be in a more favorable position, which in turn puts you at risk of giving them an extra turn.

>>713424145
He is a nigger who literally eats shit and plays with it, and the worst you can do is "passfag"?

>>713423741
FF7 ATB is fucking stupid because it discourages strategy.
in order to minimize damage to yourself and attack sooner you're incentivized to just spam an action as soon as possible.

>>713424205
I dunno why he pretends to care about me.

>>713424187
No it doesn't, lol
You just select the strongest single target attack vs the strongest aoe and that's it

Three niggas on a field instead of three niggas in a row.

>>713423714 (OP)
isn't sea of stars like it?

>>713424232
It can get like that in Final Fantasy. Relying on the counter is pretty much the only way to beat some bosses in the early game without grinding or overleveling.

Chrono nigger fucking sucks dude, give me either 3 or 4 motherfuckers in a row with atb and no parry or dodge gimmicks or your game sucks. Stop making rpgs for people who don't like rpgs

>>713424232
yes, that is the point of ATB.

>>713424281
I don't remember there being any AoE attacks but I might be misremembering. It's mostly doing QTEs to do more damage

>>713424319
Wow you waited over 30 years to say this.

>>713424319
>atb
Disgusting. Pure turn-based for me, thanks

>>713424235
But there's more than one type of AoE.
Sometimes it's more beneficial to use a Slash, other times Cyclone will be better, and sometimes neither is good and it's up to you to consider the enemy positions and figure that out.
Like I said it might be better to sit on an ATB if you think you can kill two enemies in one go since it'll automatically stop a turn that would go off otherwise had you just killed a single enemy, but doing so also puts you at risk of having them both attack before they're positioned right - it's a risk/reward system.
It's fun.

>>713424451
>you can wait two turns to kill two enemies at once
>or spend one turn killing one, then another turn killing the other one
nice "strategy"

>>713424232
No you're supposed to think ahead and select quickly, and combine durations of spells like haste and slow and poison.

>>713424335
it result in mashing through 90% of the game.

>>713424496
You must really hate Bravely Default

>>713424592
I don't play tranime coomer slop

>>713424391
I can respect pure turn based. But it needs to be 3/4 in a row format like dragon quest or it sucks

>>713424451
>But there's more than one type of AoE.
It doesn't matter, positioning in CT doesn't matter, the game is an unbalanced, primitive mess of poorly designed mechanics with nonexistent difficulty, it's a game for literal elementary school children

>>713424637
>Bravely Default
>coomer
Why are you like this?

>>713424572
That's a good thing, you shouldn't waste time calculating every move in a turn based game.

>>713423714 (OP)
this game's combat is serviceable at best, but at least it's not fucking xenogears which LITERALLY made me fall asleep

>people keep going on about the 4 niggas in a row genre
>most of them are actually 4 niggas in a file

>>713424710
>it's a game for literal elementary school children
who do you think was the target audience when the game came out?

>>713424710
Extremely based take, chronofags BTFO

>>713424570
>cast haste all at start
>if the battles gonna be long cast slow on enemy too.
'real time bar go up' doesn't really add anything to this.

>>713425060
Elementary school children, i.e. the only people who praise this poorly made mediocrity as the second coming of christ.
It's fine if you treat this game for what it is, a generic sunday cartoon in game form, but do not pretend it is deeper or more difficult that it actually is.

>>713424778
Play Xenosaga 1 next. Please.
If gears was enough to make you fall asleep for real, Saga's combat will literally put you into a thirty year coma, which will give us all a nice break from your mangy tasmanian ass.

>>713424710
If kids can play it and enjoy it, it's doing something a lot better than modern JRPG's.

>>713423714 (OP)
Chrono Trigger's battle system is awful. It has 0 mechanical depth. FF6, which removed like half of 5's mechanics, still runs laps around Chrono Trigger. Fuck.

FF1 has never been topped
>everyone just gets one move each turn
>haste simply increases how many hits you do
>monks do like 64x hits a turn
Fucking kino

>>713425118
It really does, but you just can't see it. Very sad

These 90s/early 2000's Squaresoft jrpgs all experiment with gameplay systems in various ways, but ALL of them do it in a way where it actually has zero fucking impact, and ends up being the same incredibly shallow mashy game that it would've been if they hadn't experimented whatsoever. it's probably nothing this cynical but these combat systems almost seem like they're meant to just be window dressing to trick people into thinking the game is actually different.

>>713423714 (OP)
>>713423845
Nobody copied the enemy positioning because it's a retarded system. You can't move your guys and you can't affect the enemies' movement either. It's just situational shit where one move occasionaly hits 3/4 enemies because the 4th one was arbitrarily out of range.

>>713423970
Not only that, but enemies all have set positions so it's not like you can randomly encounter a situation where position is more favorable, every battle will always play out the same way.

>>713425283
NTA but if you want a game with a good position system where it's actually relevant, play Grandia. Also a much better combat system in general

>>713425278
>Achskutally all games BAD because they just are
And here comes the heavyweight midwit, we are on /v/ after all so the rat race of retardation is very much a thing

>>713424637
>left
>tranime
>coomer

>right
>not tranime
>not coomer
Learn the difference, it could save your life.

>>713423714 (OP)
Just say I want a Chrono Trigger thread next time

>>713424187
>it gives you a lot of things to take into account.
Lmao

>>713425338
Yes reddit, we know you prefer story-rich JRPGs to gameplay focused JRPGs.

>>713425393
your post is literally just noise. might as well just have typed dheiwowiejiejdhejakawkeurudisixbdbsjsksllaowoeos

>>713425278
Low IQ take

>>713425463
>Comes into thread to make retarded statements with literally zero weight or arguments behind them
>Gets told like the retarded motherfucker he is
>"u...ur post is just noise blud"
I'll give you a slight pass because it's summer but you really should implement more 9mm bullets in your diet

>>713425425
Based Ayla Appreciation

>>713425249
Ff1 really is the best option if you just D&D the game

>>713425641
Ayla basically cuts the turns in half, allowing you to kill 3 enemies at once with a single dual-tech.

>>713425278
Not an absolute truth, some games did have some meaningful contributions but very true for a lot of shit like Chrono Trigger and like you said specifically a lot of Square's side projects. They all on the surface seem totally different but play exactly the same.

Live a Live's system is the best of all turn based.

>>713423714 (OP)
Because japanese developers got terrified to death by babby's first time limit mechanics

>>713423714 (OP)
It was too situational. Those attacks that moved across a row or whatever were only helpful in the early game, but by the time you reach the prehistoric area, you're very likely going to be making enough to buy ether and will use double techs for all the bosses constantly, with your regular attacks being strong enough to take on pretty much any enemy in one or two hits.

I say ether because you're absolutely wasting your money in this game if you're not stealing from enemies because they actually give you great stuff. That's why I usually play as Chrono, Marle, and Ayla, because they can use Twin Charm to practically guarantee a steal. You can get weapons and armor and everything for free. Shit, you can even get speed tabs from the wall machines that shoot missiles on the Black Onyx.

>>713425687
It's just a slightly worse sRPG system

>>713425725
sRPGs are a thing of their own. Compared to most 4 niggas in a row, Live a Live mogs.

>>713424710
>it's a game for literal elementary school children
And yet you utterly fail to comprehend one of it's most basic mechanics.

>>713425278
You're right and CT isn't even the worst offender. That would be FF6. The worst part is that it works, retards genuinely believe that having to input button sequences to select a basic attack makes for compelling game design.
>HURR DURR WHY HAS NOBODY COPIED THIS
Nigger, nobody has ever copied gimmicks like this because they are literally worthless lmao. They contribute nothing to the game.

>>713423970
It's not great but it could be easily improved.

A) Get rid of active time bullshit so it's not about clicking menus fast and how much enemies move is predictable
B) Make each ability affect you or the enemy's position in some way

>>713424391
I like ATB, so long as it pauses while you're in menus its good. Makes speed stat a relevant consideration.

>>713426012
You're basically slowly arriving at Into The Breach
>>713426034
The problem is that WAIT only ever pauses in the actual menus, so if you want to have time to think, you open the spell menu or whatever. It's a bit silly

>>713425878
There's nothing to comprehend, positioning literally does not matter in CT, it might as well be just a visual effect.
Your fancy AoE shapes do not matter either because nothing in the game poses a threat and all those circles, straight lines and Xs do nothing outside of maybe enforce the delusions of poorly developed minds like yours, those combo attacks are mechanically the same thing as your attack command or your Fire 1-2-3 spells but with a slightly higher attack multiplier, there's no depth or nuance to anything in CT because again, it's a game for young children to mash through and enjoy the cute graphics and music.

>>713425382
Of course there are JRPGs and SRPGs with meaningful positioning systems, CT just isn't one of them.

>>713424710
You're a tremendous faggot.

Epic Battle Fantasy > *

>>713423714 (OP)
Why does this game make /v/ seethe so much?
Is it actually just because it's well received?
I've been seeing the same shit with Pokemon Gold and Silver recently.

>>713423714 (OP)
It's FF's ATB but better. Don't know why they made FF7-9 worse.

>>713426034
>Makes speed stat a relevant consideration.
It was important in FFX's CTB too

I hate ATB systems in every game they appear in
I can still enjoy these games for what they are and I've played quite a few JRPGs with ATB but I would always prefer having either a fully turn based game or real time action combat

>>713426083
if you minmax, every game is the same.

>>713426294
Attack animations slowing the ATB sucks so hard

>>713426404
Outside of the fact that you do not need to minmax anything in CT to simply mash attack and spam heals, that's not true at all.

>>713426368
>I hate ATB systems in every game they appear in
Same, except for CT it's passable, since it actually does something with it.

>>713426479
RPGs get better when you try to be efficient. Sure, you can attack and heal and take 5 minutes more time per battle.

>>713426220
People don't actually hate Chrono Trigger. It's still a fucking fantastic game despite having tons of fair criticisms raised against it.

The problem is that the game's accessible nature also attracts drooling mongoloids who literally cannot engage with any sort of critical thought and you are one of them, you retarded nigger.

>>713426479
Yes it is. Games and their experiences are designed for casual players. By minmaxing you ruin that for yourself whatever the game. In horror games you'll be stocked with everything. In RPGs you're overleveled. In FPS games like CSGO people have entire tournaments tryharding the same map a million times, doing retarded smoke throws and shooting specific pixels to wallbang people. The base game in comparison is just one for "elementary schoolers", because you gamed all the fun out of it that you haven't had in years.

>>713425679
Crono’s sprite during Falcon Strike is the coolest shit

>>713426414
>>713426294
I recently replayed FF X-2 and the ATB in that game might be one of the worst implementations of such
>wait your turn
>select attack
>it's instant and your next turn charges right away
Great now lets look at special abilities
>wait your turn
>select special ability
>character enters a charging animation
>if the ability you chose was a spell a second wait gauge will need to be filled
>if it wasn't a spell the character just stands for a while
>after the arbitrary second wait time your character performs the ability animation
>after the ability animation your character has to return to its position and go into idle again
>now your next turn charges
The game actually wants you to spam basic attacks all game long

>>713425283
>The system is bad, because it doesn't have these very obvious features that would improve upon the system.
Are you even listening to yourself speak? God, I can't stand people like you. People who stare a solution in the face, and refuse it for NO REASON.

>>713426775
>minmaxing ruins games
I'm appalled that /v/ still hasn't learned this.

>>713426294
*Worse.

>>713426662
Efficiency is only worth it when game systems are interesting and enable actual strategy and depth, something CT does not have since the enemies are pushovers and the game has somehow less mechanical depth than FF1.
>>713426775
>Games and their experiences are designed for casual players
No they're not, what the fuck are you talking about? Something like Cogmind is not designed for casual players, GG+R is not designed for casual players and so on.
CT does not need any minmaxing, it's braindead by default, what little RPG mechanics it has are window dressing to a game that is 90% about its graphics and generic sunday cartoon story.
Stop trying to gaslight other people with your twitter tier mental diarrhea, you're vastly overestimating your intelligence.

>>713426803
Yes it is.

>>713426816
People praised the X-2 system to death so much I thought I was going crazy
Prefer X, turn order is the GOAT

>>713426981
>Prefer X, turn order is the GOAT
Preach it, brother!

>>713426803
Hell yeah. I saw that shit done two ways at each other in Tenchi Muyo, and some wandering Samurai love action dramas.

>>713426981
The only cool thing about X-2's combat is the dress-up spheres which is admittedly a pretty cool class change system for an all-female RPG party but the ATB itself fucking sucks.
Why yes I would love to deal 50% extra damage at the cost of 400% the wait time. Said absolutely no one ever.

>>713423714 (OP)
4 niggers in a row>three niggers haphazardly placed

>>713426928
That "improved" system is called real-time with pause and it's been used by countless games. I don't even mind Chrono Trigger as a game but why is it that its fans speak as if they've played NOTHING else in their entire lives? Fucking hell.

>>713427167
>4 niggers in a row
For low test high anxiety autists relying on routine
>three niggers haphazardly placed
For high test risk taking alpha males

>>713427246
>real-time with pause
Set combat to WAIT

I like Cross more than Trigger.

>>713427246
It's the deadly combination of squarefaggotry and toriyama attracting the worst kind of spics, like this>>713425425

>>713426012
Quest 64 was going in the correction direction. Underdeveloped, but still on the correct vector.
-Battles happen on directly on the field.
-Infinite time to choose your action.
-Freedom to move within a radius, allowing you to position yourself.
-Enemies similarly position themselves before attacking.
-All of your attacks have different and unique zones of damage.

Of course it's lacking in other ways. But it's really something to learn from when developing a CT style battle system further.

>>713427246
>real-time with pause and it's been used by countless games
Which games? I've never seen a game with CT style battles.
>Grandia
No

>>713427579
>Which games? I've never seen a game with CT style battles.
Every cRPG ever made. Let's say Dragon Age Origins as an example

>>713425393
>>713425587
low iq

>>713425684
>>713425973
high iq

>>713427686
If you think this gameplay... https://youtu.be/MNlCCoPeghg?t=2371
...is anything like Chrono Trigger, then you really don't get the fucking point.
Chrono Trigger is a turn based game. You don't just click on an enemy, and watch Crono limply waggle his stick in front of the enemy's face repeatedly, while calculators figure up the hits and misses. That is NOT a CT style game. Try again.

>>713427141
Turn off dress change scenes
Its instant after that.
Its also the same reason why you turn off summon animations in the original 10 after seeing them all once

>>713426816
All X-2 did was make the charge time that spells/special abilities had in older ATB systems something that you can actually see.

>>713427929
>Chrono Trigger is a turn based game.
Based fucking retard holy shit. CT is a real-time game.

>>713428906
>CT is a real-time game.
Talk about retards

>>713423714 (OP)
You now remember that I am Setsuna existed.

BTW retro longplay TAS on TTV. Live for another 2 hours. Not a new one, but couple hundred ppl watching.

>>713426479
What does "minmaxing Chrono Trigger" even mean? There's no stat allocation or buulds and every weapon is an incremental upgrade

>>713432102
>There's no stat allocation
Congrats on winning the 'Didn't Play the Game' award

>>713423714 (OP)
FF13 does CT's positioning thing desu

>>713423714 (OP)
Figure it was too much work to manually craft every encounter in the game, where it triggers, what you're fighting, how and where the enemies take position, how the enemies act before the fight.
Though every big game now hires a million people to model fucking useless details on background props anyways so they might as well get one guy to do it.

>>713426662
>RPGs

>>713423714 (OP)
If anything, the newer ff games play like it, ff7r for one.

>>713423845
The Grandia series has the same system.

>>713437205
Would you recommend the HD remake on steam?

>>713437560
I haven't played the PC versions, but Grandia 2 on Dreamcast was pretty fun. The story is pretty standard fare for early 2000's JRPGs, there's no world map, and there aren't really any sidequests or optional dungeons until the very end of the game (and it's really just the one area), but the battle system is fun to play with. Once you learn it, you can get through some boss fights without even letting them get a turn off.

>>713437205
Fake fucking news. Grandia let's you move around the battle and enemies will move and reposition themselves to attack. It's several orders more complex than CT.

>>713423714 (OP)
dragon fantasy book 2

>>713423714 (OP)
>posts a still image
Well gee OP I can surely understand the system!

>>713424187
This applies to the imagined version of CT where it isn't the most braindead easy game ever made, but not the CT that actually exists

>>713424071
Valid criticisms for the most part, but too long? I did all the side quests and had like 15 hours on that save file.

>>713424071
>but then you can't do anything about it to line up enemies, so it's just "one enemy, small aoe, full screen" at the end of the day, and you gain nothing compared to the four niggas in a line system.
I found myself thinking about positioning and shit a lot on a replay, having learned some enemy behaviors and gimmicks.

Some enemies resist or even counter attack, so you can't always haphazardly magic the whole screen. Then there was that boss built for a vertical line strike, etc.

>>713423714 (OP)
I Am Setsuna is a direct copy of it with some small twists.
There was even a girl who wore a frog outfit, a emo Magus ripoff with a scythe, a non-talking sword wielding deuteragonist, and time travel elements for good measure.

>>713440583
I couldn't get past I think the first town in that. I don't know what it was about it, but it felt so fucking boring
Do you think it's worth going back and sticking with it?

>>713437560
Grandia 1 is amazing, top 10 all time JRPG. Grandia 2 is great if you haven't played a lot of JRPGs and aren't used to the tropes, but it doesn't even attempt to put any twists on how generic its plot is. Like, I'd have fond memories if it were my 1st through 5th game in the genre I've played I think, otherwise just a 7/10

>>713425425
both look like very tranime to me, one is just made by sameface toriyama

>>713440691
I enjoyed it, but at the end of the day it's a watered-down Chrono Trigger that copied elements of FFX's plot and also watered them down and doesn't do enough to stand out on its own against a genre full of gems. If you love love love JRPGs, it's worth it. If not, the story doesn't get more intriguing until it dumps an avalanche of plot twists on you right before the last dungeon and the gameplay isn't much improved (gets inches better as it goes on) from the beginning of the game until you literally get to the room before the last boss, turn around, and wrap up the last sidequests and superbosses in the overworld.

>>713432385
Tabs aren't stat allocation you fucking retard, and you don't need a single one of those.