I just watched a video from a Jacob Geller wannabe that claimed the TF2 scoreboard hurts players' self esteem and drive to play the game, and concludes with "success isn't real, it's all subjective, as long as you had fun that's all that matters". He made a serious effort to equate TF2's quantification of engaging with the game's mechanics to irl critical theory and spent a third of the video making bad jokes about Elon Musk and whining about how we didn't totally shut down during COVID. If I had to choose a best part, it's that he claimed the scoring system is useless because you can farm teleporters and ubers via methods only ever seen in trade servers. I'm still processing what I watched. It's the biggest externalization of self-centered inferiority complex I've ever seen. Pic related, no I'm not linking this shit

>>713576432 (OP)
Now that I think about it, I understand why HLDM had no scoreboard rankings in "places" like Quake and UT, that was a very wise move by Gaben. So when every match ends it is not so clear who is the winner, the game does not do it openly. You still can count the frags, deaths etc and figure it out yourself from endgame scoreboard, but the game did not do that by itself.

>>713576432 (OP)
I found the video, it is actually focused on how point awarding system is bullshit, and does not reward player skill.
https://youtu.be/4m-achtEJ44
Did you made up your opinion just to make me finding and watching it for the purpose of correcting you? Are you a shill? How could you do this to me anon?

>>713576432 (OP)
>as long as you had fun that's all that matters
Then it doesn't matter what it says on the scoreboard

>>713577139

>>713576432 (OP)
>>713577139
Uh okay Jacob Geller or whoever you are
I'll maybe watch your silly stupid video later if I remember
Try not to sink into a sump of making a clown of yourself for views, that road only goes one place

>>713577139
Not to mention these small arbitrations mean little in the face of the full system, which I addressed with teleporter and uber farming. Who is sitting in spawn going through teleporters placed right next to each other in a serious match?

>>713577515
>the value of a person
Yeah that isn't what the scoreboard is tracking though.

if you watch youtube "essays" kill yourself
if you make threads about them, kill yourself again

>>713577515
The post with such amount of dubs cannot be wrong.

>>713576432 (OP)
I have a question, OP: If someone is stupid, then why did you waste your time listening to him?

He's not wrong. The value of a person isn't how many "kills" they got in a "video game". It's not that fucking simple my dude.

>>713577591
Meanwhile I took the time a watched a video till the end. While he goes too far away I like the idea. Today multiplayer games are rather a place to communicate than a place to compete.

That happens because:
1. people are lonely, and look for any means to connect somehow, which is clear if you look at free to play multiplayer game population and what usually happens there.
2. Skill is pointless in 2k25, and if you seek competition you certainly won't find it in multiplayer games, and there is no more purpose in it.

>>713578224
>the value of a person isn't X
>no, I won't say how their value is determined

Impressive. Feel free to post again. Ideally in the 99% auto filtered section that you're dodging because it's a real thing and everyone in there is of your intelligence level.

>>713578274
>Skill is pointless in 2k25

Is it? Have you ever played a game that requires skill? I doubt you've even tried this one. I know for a fact everyone on this website is stupid, but the last thing they want is to know for sure. That's why they don't even try games like Dota 2.

>>713578396
Anon...

>>713578117
I thought it was gonna be an actual video because of the opinionated title and it was only 7 minutes, then it got so weird I saw it through
>>713577850
Right, but that's what he believes

>>713576432 (OP)
New players think that because they don’t understand the game. TF2 is for casual death match shit and fun first and foremost. Compfags can stay in their pen or find some shitty FOMO to live out their delusions of esports shit.

>>713578538
>I thought it was gonna be an actual video because of the opinionated title
>an actual video

I have no idea what that means. The fact that you think that means something tells me all I need to know. Thread being added to 99% auto filtered shitskin section. Sub-humans will make new threads after I filter everything. Need to increase the wordfilter so they removed regardless of image.

>>713578559
this is based.

>>713576432 (OP)
faggot

>>713576432 (OP)
Imagine being this asshurt because you bottom score in TF2 constantly.
It’s not even that hard to top score, just pick Medic or Engineer and play somewhat competently and easily the most points with little effort.

>>713578559

I can't really imagine anyone giving a shit about points
like at most if I play soldier or something and get a shitton of kills and see I'm top of scoreboard i just go "neat"
who the fuck cares past that point

Kill all video game youtube "essayists". Throw them into volcanos

>>713576432 (OP)
There will never ever be a new Wolfenstein game made because Trump's election proves that fascism is now mainstream and therefore killing Nazis has become controversial.

>>713578841
Exactly

>>713576432 (OP)
Any time I don't top score in a TF2 match I feel compelled to take my own life from the shame.

>>713577515
>value of a person
It's fucking TF2

>>713578908
Here’s your (You), pig. Go find another thread to derail.

>>713578559
I've never seen anyone complain about the implications of points before this video, let alone in the context that it can be compared to systemic inequality and cause advanced butthurt to fragile minds

>>713578983
What do you mean?
OP asked for cracked out gaming opinions, and I posted one from a video I skimmed through

>>713578959

what game should be used to determine your value as a human being

>>713578284
>just filtering everyone who has ideas different than yours
talk about intellectual cowardice

>>713579024
It’s a mix of mental illness and lack of actual problems in life. Also being a massive fucking normalfag that doesn’t play games.

>>713576432 (OP)
>think this might be about the issues with TF2's score system like Sniper getting double points for half their kills
>nope its just some shitter that can't frag seething that everyone in the lobby knows hes a shitter
the lack of a score board is how you end up with the toxic MMO situation where every retard thinks he is the big fish and every failure HAS to be someone else's fault.

>>713578959
Everyone Is Political(TM), sweaty
The video isn't worth watching, it's 7 minutes of this guy taking shots at right-wingers and arguing that everyone should be dragged down to his level so he can continue not trying and have any quantification of his lower performance hidden. This
>value of a human
Shit really just means "I'm so insecure that I can't actually follow my advice of not caring and doing what makes me happy, I need everyone else to play pretend and externally validate me"

>>713579076
None
Games and other media are for entertainment

>>713579119
>It’s a mix of mental illness and lack of actual problems in life
Addressed this in the last chunk of >>713579183. He's clearly deeply insecure and instead of taking his own fucking advice, he wants what I described. The problem is, what he wants is to make his problem everyone else's problem by taking away an experience that others enjoy, and that's why I take issue

>>713579183
>Everything is political
God the pseuds ruined that phrase ages ago

>>713579148

I think the only time I've ever seen someone get shit on for lack of points is if they're being annoying the entire game and haven't done shit I guess. Otherwise people just assumed you just joined mid-match or whatever if they even care about your score at all.

>>713579305
It directly translates to "every discussion should center around validating my feelings on hot-button idpol issues"

>>713579183
>>713579305
>everything CAN be used as a vector to rape you mentally with, watch out
To
>I am now using everything to rape you mentally and physically if I can

Literally no one but the most annoying shitters care about the scoreboard, I only use it to see how much damage I'm doing and my k/d

>>713579351
Every instance of someone getting called out for points has been a shit talker bottomscoring or going friendly during a match being played for the sake of the objective, which are both reasonable. Nobody yells at me for getting 5 points as Bison trolldier

It does hurt self-esteem if you give it the power to do so, like almost all things can. It's not like this is a secret, game has taunt and domination mechanics intended solely to generate salt. But that's what gives the game texture and meaning beyond accumulating Casual XP.
One of the first steps to doing well is knowing you're doing bad, and the scoreboard doesn't do anything but conveniently tabulate that information. Playing TF2 is some of the best I've ever felt in my life and it wouldn't be if the game was designed to spare feelings.

>>713579302
So he’s a narcissist then? This kind of shit fits their MO, not to mention the cognitive dissonance from his insecurity and narcissism problem causes issues as well.

>>713579458
I guess domination isn't "solely" for salt.

I actually didn't know the Huntsman adds a point.

>>713579428
I use it to find Spies
>>713579458
>It does hurt self-esteem if you give it the power to do so
>Playing TF2 is some of the best I've ever felt in my life and it wouldn't be if the game was designed to spare feelings
>if you give it the power to do so
But this isn't good enough for some people. They can't find comfort within themselves. (You) also need to get down to their level and exist for external validation. (You) can never visibly outperform them, because that's systemic discrimination and genocide

>>713579183
everything is political, in a way. everything either contributes to political thoughts, or results from them, or both. but making everything political and thinking about politics all the time is still very gay. people just like to say "everything is political" when they want to start getting all political for no real reason

Folding Ideas had a much better video about sucking in games. "Just have fun" faggots ruin the game for the whole team.

>>713579475
lol yeah pretty much. He's the kind that doesn't try because life is unfair and he can't be expected to put forth effort until it becomes fair all by itself, using the circular logic of "it's unfair"

>>713578274
>Skill is pointless
lol, lmao even. The game is clearly designed around competition, one side has to lose so that the other can win and in this context, skill is the ONLY thing that matters when you break the game down to its base elements. That doesn't mean that people like playing with hypersweats but it does mean that trying to do the exact opposite just to spite the rules of the game is even more pointless and counter intuitive that being extremely autistic about winning, no one likes a non-team player in a team based game regardless of why said person isn't partaking in the team.

The score board does its job at conveying the general state of both teams at that specific moment which lets a player determine what the threats are and how they are threatening at a glance, reducing it down to "HURR DURR, METRIC ON HUMANS BAD!" is fundamentally misunderstanding the goal of the game.

>>713579458

domination is such a great mechanic
you get dominated? you at least have an idea that someone has been wrecking your shit consistently so you should be more wary of them and it's cathartic getting at least one over on someone wrecking you
you have dominations? nice little ego boost to know that you're doing well in a match (or bullying the shit out of some shitter)

>>713579760
You don't understand, implying that people can be unequal by any metric, no matter how small, is alt-right propaganda

>>713579760
TF2 is based around casual play, there are matches but the purpose is not to simply get a hard win but to have a fun time. TF2 was one of the last multiplayer games to focus on this. If you want comp shit go back to cowadooty.
>no one likes a non-team player in a team
The conga taunt alone was made specifically for this.

>>713579980
>TF2 is based around casual play, there are matches but the purpose is not to simply get a hard win but to have a fun time. TF2 was one of the last multiplayer games to focus on this. If you want comp shit go back to cowadooty.
This feeds into the false dichotomy. TF2 is a game with objectives, mechanics intended to be exercised and mastered, and effectively countless ways to play to accommodate virtually anyone. Not wanting to play 6s and be punished for losing doesn't mean you want to play hoovy on trade_minecraft_realms. It's fun to cap the ooint. It's fun to win pushes. It's fun to get good at a class. But it's not the end of the world if you don't win. You can leave at any time without punishment if you're not having fun, teams 2-3 times the size of most other team shooters increase the amount of unique interactions and likelihood you'll encounter a group about on par with your level of skill without a scuffed punishment-giving and sweat-inducing MMR, and it's a game with objectives meant to be completed so you can win. It's not invite 6s or crouching Heavy. There's so much outside those extremes, by design, so that pretty much anyone can find a style of play that they enjoy. And the bell curve lies right on killing other people and doing the objective with the class and weapons you happen to find fun with no threat of lasting penalty for losing

>>713580349
This is the shit that people are talking about, people that play and enjoy TF2 the people the game was made for don’t think about this shit. They’ll just play the game and do whatever the fuck they want. They’re not thinking about builds or how to best complete the objective they’re just thinking who looks good and who do I want to have the most fun with. Meanwhile with trash like cod everything is geared towards this kind of mindset and it’s miserable and leaking sweat.

The scoreboard tracks kills. If you're killing the other team and you are very good at it, then you are the best player. You could be in that position because of an accompanying medic, but a medic is not doing anything but elevating your ability to insure the other team can't do their job. Therefore, the scoreboard is an accurate representation that the player is doing a good job.

>But a spy scores 2 points per kill and thus can be at the top of a board, providing an illusion that they are the best player
Is often brought up to dismiss the scoreboard. A good spy is an annoying hindrance to the enemy team and can be a soft and underappreciated reason for victory.

>>713580767
If a Spy is topscoring, it's because they really are good. He's the weakest and most "felt" class. He's the class that makes you throw your hands up and groan when a good player is on him. I'd say Soldier, Pyro, and Demoman follow up on this "feel" metric. You really know when you're being bludgeoned by an obnoxious, in-your-face combat class

>>713579980

>MUH SCOREBOARD MADE ME FEEL BAD
okay, go play on a pub and be a friendlyfag

>>713576432 (OP)
>WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA NOT BEING THE BEST PLAYER MAKES ME SO SAAAAAAADDD
I don't care. Git gud

>>713580885
Basically put it in better words than I could. I honestly don't get how the scoreboard could be se seen as anything but an accurate representation of who to prioritize from the other team to prevent the halt of progress. If anything, it gives a great idea of how the match is playing out.

>Pyro is leading the top, likely grouping with the objective and providing a field, isn't being prioritized.
>Engineer on offense? Likely enemy team is letting him get away with turrets
>Sniper? Doesn't really need to be said. Isn't being countered in anyway.
>Heavy? Likely a very solid composition insuring he can be as deadly as possible without any of his massive weaknesses coming through.

>>713581131
I've gone anti-air because of a topscoring enemy Soldier more than once. Imagine arguing for people to gimp themselves of a legitimate strategy for muh feelz

We really are at the end of discussion for TF2, aren't we? The scoreboard? The fucking scoreboard?

>>713581529
We've been at the end for several years now

KDR is meaningless in a objective based FPS game where picks & damage are more important. Kill streaks being added was one of the worst things valve ever implemented because it made people play for themselves instead of objectives or team gain.

>>713581529
It feels like, every passing year they want to turn that corpse of a game into a literal hugbox that everyone is forced to accept.
>No sprays
>No decals
>No "broken" weapons
>No "no-no words"
>The community is so "nice" and "wholesome" unless you're not from their inner-circles
>Most of the hats nowadays are made by a small clique that hates the game and it's players
>E-celeb worshipping to the max
It's been like this for years! E-celeb video-essays like op's included

>>713581868
You're completely correct, but obligatory
>hi Zesty

>>713582612
I don't watch e-celebs Anon. Let alone TF2's e-celebs.

Reminder that TF2, and Team Fortress in general, are designed around the idea that players can be contributing to the team by doing their own thing.
source: TF2 commentary.
Love that design philosophy, means you can be team orientated, or you could be a roaming soldier bombing people and you are still contributing.

>>713580575
>people that play and enjoy TF2 the people the game was made for don’t think about this shit.
>people that enjoy and play the game do not engage with the game mechanics
Are you a fucking retard? The zoomers who play and enjoy fortnite engage with the mechanics and actively try to better themselves at the game even though it doesn't punish losing at all. Game mechanics are the fun, idiot. People generally have fun learning new skills.

>>713577515
any FUCKING questions?

>>713578274
You are retarded.

One of the things that makes TF2's casual team gameplay work is that it's mostly 12v12. Everyone contributes a bit in different ways and aside from probably 1 medic and 1 engineer, you don't strictly need anyone to do anything to win a fun game.

All these other new games are 6v6, with very strict class roles, and you can instantly feel if you one player isn't picking up the slack. This'd be fine if it was comp but most people just wanna play casual and suddenly everyone's fucking screaming at each other. You'd fix half the toxicity and half the anger people get at these games if there was just a tiny bit less focus on demanding every give it 100% or get crushed in every setting.

>>713578538
>Right, but that's what he believes
Whathe believes is stupid.

>>713576432 (OP)
I got recommended this dogshit too, he's actively deleting any comments that are negative.

>>713578908
As a Wolfenstein fan, that video makes my blood run cold every time I'm reminded it exists.