Is Diablo II any good?

Yes but I don't get the grind of finding runes or rare items. I just start a character and complete it to maybe Nightmare and end it.

>>713876746 (OP)
I've got like hundreds of hours in it since it first came out and I've never passed Act 3. God I hate Act 3.

So yeah sure it can be real fun.

>>713876805
>>713876817
which class is most fun?

>>713876746 (OP)
Worst game in the series, just play act 1 and uninstall it
Play 3

>>713876746 (OP)
It's one of the original rodent brain addiction games, that's built around making you want shinier things. Luckily it's also a decent ARPG with enough build variety to make up for it, so just play it to the end (maybe try Hell but doing it solo kind of sucks unless you're really lucky or have a perfectly optimized build) and call it at that.

>>713876957
They're all fun. Except Barbarian.

>>713876746 (OP)
It's slot machine experience so if you like gambling then yeah, it's good.

the first character I got decently geared I had a good bit of fun with. I farmed a bunch of different shit on my sorc for a few days till I got bored. Once I got close to BiS on her, I got pretty bored though

>>713876746 (OP)
No. 1 is way the fuck better.

yea but not the remake, you gotta use PlugY so you get unlimited stash space and can hoard items like crazy

>>713877337
>yea but not the remake
why not

>>713877665
because you can't use plugY and also some of the 3d models are uglified

>>713876746 (OP)
it's alright

play the original, they probably ruined the remake

>>713876967
>Play 3
>just eat literal shit

playproject d2

>>713876967
no way you are serious
fucking diablo 3? i'd even buy 4, poe or grim dawn, but fucking 3?

>>713876746 (OP)
Until you start using Runewords and removing class identity, yes

>>713878704
Runewords are what made the game completely shit.

>>713876746 (OP)
It's not called the KING of ARPG for nothing

>>713876967
bait

>>713876746 (OP)
By modern hack n' slash standards with all the QoL improvements, et al. that implies? No. If you were there when it became a genre definer overnight, then it's amazing if you used mousepads maphack for the qol fixes

tl;dr: nostalgia goggles

Also, the demake is a soulless cashgrab. They even censored it to make it palatable for the mythical Modern Audience™

>>713876746 (OP)
yes the OG version

What's the best fan expansion, Median XL or some other one?

>>713879591
True

>>713876746 (OP)
nice graphics.. but severely lacks qol stuff that are present in newer arpgs..
hell, even just the pet system in tl1/2 makes them superior imo to diablo 2 already.

diablo 2 WAS fun, you had to be there

>d3 was my first diablo
>have played d1, d4, poe, poe2, grim dawn, last epoch, titan quest, torchlight 1 & 2 since
>have tried to play d2 4 separate times
>every single time I get bored by the desert

>>713882805
>hell, even just the pet system in tl1/2 makes them superior imo to diablo 2 already.
Huh? Those pets were useless. Even sending them to sell stuff didn't mean much because you could just portal back and do it yourself in 10 seconds instead of the 2 minutes the pet took.

>>713882912
the pets worked for me because there's this buff i got on their accessory that makes them come and go in less than 20 seconds
so i just let them sell and buy potions, while i continue exploring

i would also just like to add that the artstyle of tl2 doesn't bother me.. and strangely enough it feels like it was a good choice because it looks good, imo, to this day..
Grim Dawn's art style didn't attract me
D2R is really beautiful, but i don't think it's worth the extra space just for that, plus no local network play

>>713876957
Excellent: Necromancer, Druid
Good: Sorceress, Amazon
Eh: Paladin, Rogue
Shit: Barbarian

Barbarian is mostly just a right click simulator. He's good, but really boring.
Paladin is Barb, but you're an actual character, with abilities.
Rogue has a fuckton of interweaving abilities that do shit, that were complicated when the game came out, but pretty easy now. Probably better if you like that sort of thing.
Sorceress and Amazon are fun, both are basically dps fuckers that try to kill everyone as fast as possible before they explode. Sorceress kills and explodes a little faster, Amazon is a bit more versatile.
Necro and Druid are really fun, and probably have the most different ways to take the characters. Necro is a bit harder to build well, Druid is a bit more forgiving.

>>713881478
I would say Project Diablo 2

>>713880656
project diablo2 has all the QoL you'd expect from a modern game, including wasd unlike poo1

>hear d2 is peak
>try it out
>first enemies are demon imps that are faster than you and run away from you
>offscreen shaman resurrects them
>there's a stamina system for running .exe
>make it to the next zone thinking im finally done with them
>nope, here's a reskin
>uninstall
why do people think this game is good?

>>713876746 (OP)
its objectively worse than diablo 1 but the classes offer more variety so it's the one that everyone glazes.

>>713884861
>D1
>1995-tier gameplay
>D2
>2020-tier gameplay

D1 has the atmosphere but holy FUCK it feels janky

>>713884560
Cheers, I'll give it a run.

>>713884917
its not janky in any way. it's called grid based movement and it's the reason diablo 1 is good because you can actually make tactical decisions instead of just run around and abuse the AI to click everything to death. diablo 2 is a twich game with the worst controls for one, diablo 1 is a tactical action rpg reminiscent of a modern rogue like

>>713876746 (OP)
Top 10 best games ever

>>713885239
>it's called grid based movement and it's the reason diablo 1 is good because you can actually make tactical decisions instead of just run around and abuse the AI to click everything to death. diablo 2 is a twich game with the worst controls for one

diablo 2 literally has the same grid based movement

>>713876746 (OP)
Its GOAT

>>713885313
it doesn't. Let yourself get surrounded. it's not a grid.

>>713885239
>it's called grid based movement
yeah, it's fucking janky
>tactical decisions
>sit in a doorway and spamclick
>get behind bars and spamclick arrows at butcher till he dies

>>713885375
sounds like you got bored at level 1 and quit. amazing because theres nothing challenging in diablo 2 act 1 until practically the end of it, which is comparable to almost beating 1. anyway if all you want from a game is to kill a bunch of shit effortlessly play musou

>>713885435
>D1
>challenging
if you're 6 years old

>>713885435
>nothing challenging
ply me not with your challenges man, if you want a challenge try acquiring a skill in real life, you aren't 15 years old anymore

Not the 'remake', grab the original for cheap on Amazon, then grab the Amazon in game and go to work. Install PlugY too.

>>713876746 (OP)
No, slop grind rng

>>713882876
true the Act 2 desert level is terrible

>>713886512
The swamp isn't super great either. Didn't really care for hell either.
Mountains were okay though.

>>713876805
So you play the game for 6 hours and quit? Sounds boring and without any challenge at all.

>>713876967
People talk a lot of shit about Diablo 3 but don't realize it's been polished into a great game. I used to hate it back in 2012-13 but about a year ago I decided to try it out again, then I found out all the things I hated about the game has been looked at and changed over the span of 13 years. I got to paragon 1900 in season 34 and I had a blast

>>713888164
It's the best game in the genre by far nowdays despide what people say. Every single other one is a complete mess or just boring and even though I love poe it has disgustingly bad combat and balance

>>713876746 (OP)
If you care about atmosphere:
D2 = D1 > D3 >= D4
If you care about pure combat:
D3 > D2 > D1 > D4
If you care about the loot and character progression feeling good:
D2 > D3 > D1 > D4

I fucking hate D4 so much. Just such a trashpile of a game, there is something so fundamentally wrong and broken about both the atmosphere and gameplay there. Atmosphere I can tell why, everyone was like "D3 was too colorful" and nu-Blizzard overcorrected to make D4 all so "WE ARE SO GRAY AND DARK AND GRIM AND SCARY" in the worst way possible, like everything screams "LOOK WE FIXED IT YOUR FUCKER" at you. Gameplay I bet some people are gonna claim it's just like D3 or better, but nah, it felt wrong to me from the start, and only felt worse when I tried playing again in later (vanilla) seasons. It's the only game in the series where I didn't bother to buy the expansion so if at least combat got better then good for you, but I also saw videos about the new class scaling being utterly broken and 10000x more powerful than the rest, so I don't think they ever got their shit right.
I spent the last weeks playing Project Diablo 2 new season and it was super fun. I can go to D2R at any time and it would be fun, the mods are finally getting pretty good there too. I could commit to getting a random build to GR150 in D3 and it would be fun for a week. I could start a new run in D1 and it would be fun. Just thinking about playing D4 again makes me feel miserable.

>>713876746 (OP)
>is good?
resurected is soulless. play project diablo 2 instead

>>713888617
Yeah, it's so good that D3 fans have to hijack D2 and D4 threads to talk about it since no one cares enough to post about D3 in its own dedicated thread.

>>713889390
D1 has the best loot since nearly all blue items are exciting to identify. You will never leave an unidentified gothic plate on the ground.

>>713876746 (OP)
it's very good, in the same way a 30yo car might be very good. do go in expecting a 30yo car to have modern equipment and conveniences

>>713888617
I played D2: Resurrected and got to the point where the only thing left is either multiplayer (not happening), making a new character to play those shit ass chapters again or kill a billion cows. Made me wonder what the fuck anyone sees in that game, outside of nostalgia
>>713889612
Yeah I'd love to read 500 posts about how bad Resurrected is and all the runes and shakos you didn't get from the 100,000 Baal runs you did

>>713888164
it's good for what it is - a week long binge every 6 months or so

>>713889810
Post an screenshot of your account. I want to see how much you actually played D2.

>>713889740
Finally a correct opinion. Even a blue short sword I'll identify because it could have a massive hit chance and damage modifier. Every magic item drop is a potential upgrade compared to other looters of the genre in which you leave a lot of crap on the ground.

>>713889390
Yeah D4 just has boring classes and gameplay. They're afraid to let players have fun skills from D3 like disintegrate. They even managed to make necromancer boring. The loot never really feels good. The story is alright, but you can just watch it on youtube and skip the shitty game. The zones feel bad to traverse through, the crafting nodes and system should just be dropped altogether, and the enemies tend to blend in with the environment turning the screen into slop.

>>713889832
I'm going for 2000 or more paragon so for me it's gonna be a bit longer than a week
>>713889968
Let me stop you right there. Are you gonna have some retarded argument about how I'm in the wrong whenever I bring up how shitty and unfun quests, cow runs and boss runs are?

>Act 1, fantastic
>Act 2, great when you get to Canyon of the Magi and go on a treasure hunt
>Act 3, decent with the sorceress, tolerable at worst
>Act 4, short but sweet
>Act 5, tedious until you get to the Crystalline Path, back to being tedious when you arrive at the Frozen Tundra, afterwards manageable
I've never touched D3, D4 and will not touch Resurrected when the original D2 is still engaging and fun.

>>713890287
I lose interest at the point where you're just looking for ancient versions of the same items you already have

>>713888164
post pc specs

>>713889740
It still goes to D2, every item quality has its use, even if not always in every slot.
>white
You pick up good bases for imbue and socketed ones to use for runewords.
>blue
Amulets and gloves that can got to +3 skills, body armor and shields with 4 sockets for facets, some circlets/druid pelts can be used for a while just blue. You want to pick up some specific items as bases for crafting.
>rare
Circlets, druid pelts, amulets, rings, gloves, belts and boots can all roll to be still your best option to wear endgame.
>unique
Obviously plenty of great and iconic items, but also not D3/D4 tier of being the only possible option that makes you deal 1000x more damage from a single item legendary power.

>>713890287
>Are you gonna have some retarded argument about how I'm in the wrong whenever I bring up how shitty and unfun quests, cow runs and boss runs are?

No, I want to see if you've actually played D2 to death like you claim that you have. I'm willing to bet that you either never played it or have never actually beaten hell. Show your character screen right now.

>>713889390
>>713888164
recommend me THE most fun class in D3 to play in single player

Dueling is what made Diablo II good
It was the best PvP game of its decade

There's no reason to grind D2 for its single player and now that D2 online is dead as a doornail there's no reason to play it really
It was a great game
We can remember how great it was
Its not playable like it used to be

>>713890357
It sounds boring when you put it like that, and it is. But what made it click for me is pushing higher paragons and being able to sustain yourself while juggling 8 different boss mechanics at once. Having a fun build like any top performing necro build or Natalya's makes a big difference too
>>713890378
Some prebuilt ass PC with a 3060, windows 10 and 32 gigs of ram, why do you even ask
>>713890496
I have a level 86 offline sorcerer, and the game is uninstalled
>>713890576
Pushing your build is the fun part, a lot of them play largely the same. For better or for worse. Can't go wrong with demon hunter though
https://maxroll.gg/d3/tierlists/solo-tierlist

>>713890603
duelfags are fucking delusional lel, my favourite is the big community tournaments where 50% of the items/abilities in the game are banned

>>713890681
why does your copy of D3 have mobile gaming graphics

>>713890603
D2 online isn't dead. You just have to play on a private server. Project Diablo 2 has 10k+ concurrent players at the start of every season and a very healthy trade economy.

>>713890496
AND ALSO because you're gonna be a pedantic fuck about it, I never claimed to have played the game to death
>>713890730
I dunno

>>713890681
"Sorcerer" is not a class in Diablo 2. Do you mean sorceress? I'm calling bullshit on you having ever played it.

>>713890603
>join pvp game as taxied into hell level 8
>steal everyone's gold
devilish

>>713886790
NTA but 2 isn't really that deep of a game.
It's mostly just gearing up, the actual 'execution' of gameplay is really not that hard, even retards like Elon Musk can play these games well, and that's because they're piss easy once you get what you need.

remake can eat my shit, colours are faded worse than my old shirt after the millionth wash and they added a super annoying fog and vignette effect

>>713890576
I always had fun running Monk builds, like Wave of Light. Crusader too. I was rolling with Wizard early on, especially Meteor builds, but in the long run Wizard builds tend to feel overcomplicated to play and maintain, even if they are often the most broken ones if you put in the effort (I'm not touching Archon builds again, fuck that). Meteors was I think the first build I went to GR150 with when the powercreep started getting you there.

>>713890726
maybe in retard leagues but almost everyone agrees on the basics of dueling which isn't very restrictive;

>no healing potions
>no ephemeral shit (charged items, revives, prebuff in cold plains, ethereal breakable items, etc)
>no using shrines/wells/mercs
>no hacking

everything else beyond that was just fine tuning pvp fairness
people could bitch about slow target or absorb or overly defensive play but that's all quibbling and matchup dependent and only autists tried to set specific rules on it

>>713890784
The optimal build was barbarian with 3 points into leap, 1 point into taunt, 2x fcr wands, fcr ammy and rings
People could trap you with bone walls if you don't have leap and you can spam taunt while you steal their gold

>>713890784
>join pvp game
>hostile and allow loot everyone
>friend kills guy
>die on corpse with full equip and inventory
>they loot my body first, then pop their items
>steal their shit
man popping people was so fun

>>713888164
I've had lot of fun in D3, it was really fun to play even without a clan, random groups tend to be quite solid and could get you to actually experience some of the post game

>>713890782
Ask me how I knew you were gonna be a pedantic fucking retard the moment I said I didn't like cow runs or doing the same shitty bosses over and over again. Because that's all you do, there's no defending it or getting around it. Also, I was wrong. It's a level 84 sorceress. I gave myself an OP charm to get through the early game faster and I still remember the site I used to edit my character

>>713890908
Elon paid someone to play the game for him. D2 is a difficult game if you play hardcore normal - hell mode just using what you find on the ground even for veterans. It's still really easy for me to die if I'm careless and I have over 10k hours in it.

>>713891195
My god, you used hero editor and your gear is still fucking trash. Diablo 3 is the perfect game for no effort shitters like you.

>>713888164
Diablo 3 looks ugly and has horrible writing, but it is the most fun Diablo

>>713890576
I always enjoy the Necromancer. The corpse explosions are very satisfying in Diablo 3

>>713891425
I'm still disappointed they went away from interesting set changes to just more damage
I miss delsere bubble dps

>>713891207
>Elon paid someone to play the game for him.
The point is that he's able to bumble around like a retard and (generally) not die since the actual 'execution' of the genre isn't really that hard, it's mostly just progression and gearing up as you said.

>>713891321
Seethe more, faggot

>>713891527
It's not just that, though. In an instant, you can be sniped by a fanat/might archer pack from off screen if you're not careful in hardcore. If you're a pally, you might be spamming hammers and then a doll pack comes at you from out of nowhere and all explodes at once due to a stray hammer. You can enter a tomb and a might pack is camping the doorway due to a bad spawn. If you're strictly talking about softcore, then yeah. There is no actual skill involved.

>>713891527
Well yeah, no shit, if you get someone else to farm you the best gear in the game you can be a fucking idiot and still manage to run some early endgame content like ELON MAPS on your own. But he has no game knowledge and skill to get there, especially with bad gear that he would have to farm and improve over time.

>>713891656
At least you beat the game with a single character even if you cheated. I'll give you props for that. Still:

>I played D2: Resurrected and got to the point where the only thing left is either multiplayer (not happening), making a new character to play those shit ass chapters again or kill a billion cows

Is false. You never actually beat the game legit and you never tried beating it hardcore. You played through the game a single time with a hacked character and now want to claim mastery over the game.

>>713891773
>If you're strictly talking about softcore.
Mostly yeah.

I downloaded a fully built Paladin (Hell) save to experiment with and the game really wasn't that difficult at all, I could kill Baal and his minions just fine. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that kind of design (gearing up), but I personally think D2 is kind of a boring waste of time past Nightmare since there really isn't that much to do beyond gear progression, the actual gameplay itself is pretty barebones past that and the experience not really different at all aside from being more of a grindy waste of time (and an uninteresting and really basic grind at that.)

>>713890782
ok you caught me.I'm a liar and I'm sorry.

>>713891773
Its diablo II, the only way you can die on a reasonable well equipped character is to disconnect in a bad spot
Even the most insane pack of fanat might extra strong cursed dark archers pack still only tickles a 4000 hp 75% block 50% dr 63% dodge amazon who has 86500 EHP

You basically need to disconnect at the moment you teleport on top of de seis or baals minions or a hell bovine pack because its impossible to die otherwise
Its not path of exile with 10 gorillion burst damage if you stand in the wrong spot for 0.2 seconds too long

>>713892035
Playing through the game knowing that you can only die a single time is a totally different experience. Your gear matters and the goal is actually beating the game instead of grinding for meaningless gear that to kill enemies a few seconds faster. Softcore is still fun for me if I want to duel my friends, though.

>>713892095
This is not true if you're playing through the game just using what you find instead of having other characters feed gear to you. You don't play hardcore and I can tell.

>>713892280
I don't disagree, something I do yearly with some survival horror games is no death runs.

>>713892012
I love this. You're saying I claimed "mastery" over the game when I never did, and that I've "played to death" when I never did, I just said I got to level 84. Delusional fucking retard. You would rather just make shit up about me instead of defending the game, says a lot you and the game itself now doesn't it

>>713892341
>If you intentionally hobble yourself with handicaps and refuse to engage in the metagame that trivializes the game, you can actually risk losing!
Brilliant observation

Meanwhile the other 99% of the playerbase gets their items from trading on d2jsp, can grush a char to hell in 20 minutes and level it up in chaos and transfer a bunch of gear to it and in less than an hour have a character 100x more effective than your self-found ebin char

>>713892351
Yeah, I love playing that way and it's the only way I really play ARPGs single player nowadays. If I want to play with my buddies, though, I'll still play softy mode to chill with them.

>game is easy
>if you gear up with 1000$ worth of forum gold
Ok? Sure?

>>713892523
So, you don't actually enjoy playing the game the way that it was intended then. You want to play an economy simulator instead. That's why the game is "easy" for you. Why not just run a bot instead and never even bother playing?

>>713892523
NTA, but that's hilarious, why even play the game at that point?

>>713892696
>the way that it was intended
hcssf is not the "intended" way to play d2 you turboautist lol

>>713892523

and in real life i am richer, more handsome and get more bitches than youll ever. does this mean you should kill yourself?

>>713886790
Yes? There's nothing interesting or challenging about grinding for items

>>713892991
Lol absolutely seething!

>>713893056
The game doesn't actually get difficult until hell mode. It's not Diablo 1. D2 normal mode has no challenge to it.

>>713892280
Yeah but die once and basically all the time you spent playing is wasted with nothing to show for it.

I mostly play Path of Exile though and wouldn't dare try Hardcore in that game. Way too much random bullcrap that can one shot you out of nowhere

>>713893207
Hardcore in Diablo 2 is more feasible since the game is indeed easier and more 'stable' in terms of its encounters.

Of course random bullshit can one-shot you or you get bad elites that fuck you over, but Diablo 2 is just much more manageable overall.

>>713893207
>Yeah but die once and basically all the time you spent playing is wasted with nothing to show for it.

It's not wasted time, though. When you die, you go and play something else instead until you get the itch to play through fresh again. That's how I approach games like Diablo 2 and PoE nowadays. When you play softcore, you're gearing up to kill monsters quicker so you can gear up to kill monsters slightly quicker. It's kinda pointless when you think about it. Softcore is the real time waster.

>>713890119
>why yes, i've never played diablo 1 but i like to pretend i did. how could you tell?
That's not how drops work in d1.

>>713890409
>white
Wands too, if you like gambling.

>>713892712
Because once people grush their chars to hell and equip them, they go and join dueling games

>>713884247
>rogue
assassin

>>713893797
>they go and join dueling games.
>ARPG dueling.
To each their own lol.

>>713886790
Yes? You can finish the game up to Nightmare without runewords and repeating countess run isn't fun at all, it's stupid. What do you really need to fight stronger monsters on Hell to really enjoy a game? And it's more than 6 hours because you can repeat the process again with a different class, expect barbarian though because fuck barbs retard class.

>>713894250
Have you tried getting gud?

>>713892095
I played tank nova with a build that effectively translated into 95% physical reduction. I wonder what kind of EHP that would translate to.

>>713894437
*laughs in 2500 faceit elo*

>>713892095
What if a single Moon Lord gets close to you?

>>713892967
SSF is the intended way to play Diablo 2. Feeding gear to your characters trivializes the entire game. Playing through the game just using what you find is the only time ARPGs are even remotely challenging.

>>713894869
I don't look for challenge in a literal loot slotmachine simulator genre

>>713894968
It's a loot slot machine because that's how you choose to play the game. You don't have to play it that way. You're just a gambling addict.

>>713894479
ES builds only became viable in pvm when mana burn was nerfed
until a few years ago, for 99% of the game's active lifespan / total hours played by people, mana burn in pve would do 256x the damage it was supposed to and every mana burn mob would instantly break your energy shield and usually kill you in a couple hits after that


EHP against burst damage is still limited by your mana pool since its calculated before all reductions, and mana burn creatures hit super hard against it since they get like bonus -80 mana +80 damage on unique and half that on minions

If you hit 4000 mana on a 75% block build you can have some pretty good EHP. 20 telekinesis means 0.75 mana per damage, 21k EHP to burst damage and huge regen. No mitigation other than block/dodge will boost that, but sorcs can now wear hustle but you only get the bonus evade while running not teleporting/casting

>>713876746 (OP)
It's good, but Diablo 1 is better

>>713886790
Imagine unironically saying this, as if that’s not how video games are mostly meant to be played

>fk yeah it's fun grinding for runes

>>713889832
Hell yeah brother

>>713895131
Except no one plays them that way nowadays. This isn't 1986. Gaming has moved on from Mario 1. If you only want to play a game for 6 hours and want it to actually be challenging, you'd be playing Diablo 1 instead (or even Mario 1).

>>713895160
You can't grind for high runes even if you're autistic and want to
The droprates are so astronomical its physically impossible for human players to obtain endgame runewords through normal means, only viable via direct exploitation of game seeds in single player or heavy botting / duping online

You could employ a team of 8 full time chinks paid minimum wage to grind hell cows or travincal or chaos for a year to find high runes and you'd make like 2-3 runewords.

>>713895160
I'm gonna keep pulling that lever and you cant stop me

>>713895160
>fk yeah it's fun grinding for threads

You are literally gambling by being here

>>713895331
nah, I solo farmed my enigma and shit through travi in sp when D2R launched

it's around 1 HR every 6 hours + uniques and lower runes
>>713895364

>>713895297
Clueless

>>713895580
Just say that you're a shitter that is bad at games. Quitting after a 6 hour playthrough because the game got too hard means you just suck at the game. I can beat hell mode using literal trash I found off of the ground with across the board negative resistances.

>>713889810
>Made me wonder what the fuck anyone sees in that game, outside of nostalgia
for me it's the interplay between itemization and skills. theorycrafting builds and trying things out and seeing how they execute is fun. i didn't like d3 because itemization isn't as interesting and doesn't inform build choices as much

>>713895674
>thinks I play until I get mad that it’s too hard and quit
The opposite. I play a six hour game for six hours and then i quit after six hours because the game is over

>>713895926
This game doesn't even start after 6 hours. Normal mode in Diablo 2 should be called baby mode. If you want an actual challenge, play through hell using trash you find off of the ground or play a game that actually has a bit of challenge to it. Don't blame me for pointing out the obvious to you. Blame the devs for balancing the game that way. If you're quitting Diablo 2 before beating hell, you didn't beat it.

>>713896062
I’m not really a Diablo hardcore player, six hours is a great amount of time to play a single player game even if it’s not hard

>>713896236
I think if I played this game vanilla for the first time and quit after normal mode, I'd think it was a shitty game that didn't challenge me. A first time Diablo 1 playthrough will take you about 8 - 10 hours and it's way more challenging and brutal. PoE has more challenge just playing through the acts blind, too.

>>713895364
>>713895575
Travincal council members in P1P1 have 34.55% nodrop resulting in

Sur 1:55795
Jah 1:74943
Ber 1:83693

And if you use 75% chance find item which gives 0% nodrop when it succeeds, you get

Sur 1:47202
Jah 1:63402
Ber 1:70804

There are 11 council members with 11 corpses to hork per run, and it takes 2x sur to equal 1 jah/ber equivalent since people treat jah/ber as same price in trading. But that's not counting SP where you need 4 surs to make a jah. So at 4:2:1 ratios you get

EV of runs to get a jah = 1/(11*(0.25/55795+0.5/83693+1/74943)+11*(0.25/47202+0.5/70804+1/63402)) = 1750 travincal runs
That's for one jah equivalent and you need 1.5 to make an enigma so more like 2625 runs, except you might wind up with 2x jah and still satisfy that.

and runs with a barb are taking at least a minute, unlike a sorc who can do it in 30 seconds. You need to walk (can't teleport without enigma) and even after killing (slow with barb) you need to hork each body (significant time)

>>713876746 (OP)
titan quest is better

>>713886790
Hell is retardly imbalanced, unless you actually play multiplayer or summon necro for maximum lazy mode.

You need ton of grind just to get out of first act and lord forbid you from playing melee.

>>713876805
the people who do like grinding became gacha drones

>>713888617
Is this where /v/ is now? Shitting on D1/LoD in favor of D3 of all fucking things?

>>713895027
>instantly break your energy shield
Easily mitigated by not being a retard and stacking defence and maxing warmth. Only thing that could kill me was the convic/strong/FE that oneshots pretty much everyone.

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/pd2qh036
This is what I was plowing cows with, back in 1.09 and 1.10. Defiance merc with stay alive gear, no runewords. Free socket in harle. Open inventory slots was res/life and mana/life small charms. Torch wasn't a thing back then.
Disclaimer, I can't remember if it was 20 warmth/10 shiver armor or the other way around. I'm fairly certain warmth had prio.

>>713876746 (OP)
D2 has very good itemization, even if a bit dated
>different classes that can farm different areas at different gear levels
cold sorc being able to farm endgame gear very quick, paladins (lol), horker barbs, LK runs, cow destroyer amazons
>only a few drops are actually gatekept, unlike many endgame systems in other games
the beauty of diablo2 is you can find an endgame unique or rune very early into the endgame if you're lucky, and even if you're not MF will get you there
>endgame tier items can drop beginning of hell
>runewords help shore up bad RNG albeit being extremely powerful to beat out rares
>many different cope options available depending on your patience levels
LK being a big one
i've been playing d2 on and off for a while offline and it's been pretty great, only playing barbarian and self farmed a grief thanks to horking + LK runs. having the potential to solo self farm an endgame item even with relatively dogshit gear is basically an impossibility in other modern arpgs. the main issue i think is the endgame for many people is very reachable and quick especially with trade but i'd rather have that than have any drops be gatekept by needing to do shit other than kill things (exception being LK runs lmao)

i love diablo2, i dont need to juice maps or care about area ilevel or whatever other bullshit, i can just kill hell bosses and they can drop sick items

>>713896546
You don't need to do much grinding. For melee, you just need a source of crushing blow to kill the act bosses (this is optional but speeds things us) and enough health and resistance to tank damage. I've gotten through the game just gambling rare items many times. I've done it with a damn throw barb untwinked in hardcore (it sucked really bad lol). Just because you kill slow doesn't mean that you can't kill. It's a struggle playing through Diablo 1 as a warrior, too.

>>713895027
Oh and no one knew what the fuck the telekinesis synergy did back then.

>>713876746 (OP)
No but it can be addicting and the setting and monsters are really cool.

>>713896460
and don't forget that with the way probability works, that 1750 number is for an approximately 50% chance to actually get what you're trying to get. that's the "average number of runs," not how many it will actually take in practice.

>>713896460
I think I was doing them on p3, p5 was doable but slow enough to not make it really worth it

>>713896834
>speeds things **up
I meant

>>713895364
fuck you my trav luck has been so dogshit

>>713895706
I would argue Diablo 3 has a lot of that too, but only at the very top end, and only certain builds, and it depends on what items you run across. So fair enough I guess

>>713896460
you actually can tele without enigma amulett or staff with charges barb specific has no problem there, killing (zerk with oath) and for horking bo spears or using suicide branch whichs drop/tradeable before you even get to act3 hell is also not a problem

>>713896930
this took me 10 nm andy runs lol

>>713897107
kys yourself NOW, i've gotten every fucking unique ring in the game except soj

>>713896751
You can stack defense on any char. Granted sorcs are kind of good at it for energy shield, zons aren't, but defense doesn't work against half the damage sources in pvm anyway. Lots of monsters with elemental projectiles, charge, smite, poison, etc. And you also need heavy poison mitigation for ES builds.

Energy shield having high regeneration is its real advantage in both pvm and pvp. It has less total EHP than vita builds doing the same stuff, but regenerates super fast. But if its hardcore you should have a belt of 16x full juvs against spike damage anyway, so having higher max EHP matters more than regen
9x warcry life skiller barbs, javazons with high dodge/evade/avoid and 75/50 builds, etc

>>713895331
They changed droprates several years ago to be miserable instead of impossible. You are correct that seed manipulation of LK is the fastest way. It isn't worth grinding HRs unless you want to actually cap out a character. You can get through hell SSF if you know what you are doing

>>713897107
i don't really grind in d2 and i don't play it regularly since like the late 2000s but i only ever got a natural soj drop once and it was off normal diablo of all things

>>713897086
And all that winds up being slow as molasses compared to a sorc doing the same thing. You're barely breaking even thanks to find item with all that setup and extra clicks and jizz gear just to accomplish what a cold sorc does with tarnhelm and gear you can buy from akara on day 1 of a new ladder

Tips for a Paladin?

>>713897398
Holy fire until act 4 nightmare and then hammers. Enjoy breezing through everything.

>>713897202
Those are the rates after the change, 1750 run expected value for a jah is the 'miserable' rate, it used to be closer to 14000
You can see its the post-buff numbers because one of the side effects of the way they weighted runes is that jah drops slightly more frequently than ber now
They raised drop rates of high runes by different amounts each, the most for zod and descending multipliers below that, and the difference between jah and ber buffs was more than the difference in their original droprates, so jah is now slightly more common

>>713897374
You'd need to be twice as fast as the barb for it to even begin to be worth it with the sorc. People have run the numbers before and they are not that far off from each other-- it really just depends on your itemization at the time. To really be worth it for the sorc, they probably aren't doing Trav runs with too scuffed of gear. P1 running is miserable.

>>713897374
i just get it from drognan instead also with the gold i gather i can gamble for stuff more precisly while you have to cry for your merc and waste your money on him praying he wont die or wander of with his retarded ai

>>713897374
i like playing barb and being able to farm up crazy shit very well without having to use the magic lady though

>>713897374
barb and sorc basically get to council at the same time thanks to barb runspeed, it's only 3 tele's worth of distance from wp

>>713897606
Well the sorc is clearly better because if the numbers are anywhere close, the sorc takes zero gear to assemble, is 1000x easier to play and build up to that point like on day 1 of a ladder, and takes no effort to click through and do its farming
Barbs are the worst pvm character in self-found by a mile and you need to get an oath before you can even kill anything and then you're still fiddling with lots of buttons and needs lots of gear before it even matches the sorc who can rush herself through hell while you're still at act 3 norm spider forest

>>713897374
Sorc sucks for trav running. I find so many more charms and runes doing it with even a half way geared berserk barb. Sorcs needs to do 10 p1 runs to find the same amount of charms it takes for a barb to hork in a single run. I find so much shit with my barb in a single run that I have to drink potions off of the ground because I can't see everything that dropped otherwise.

>>713897827
I initially made the barb for endgame grail shit, travi felt a lot more rewarding than pit/ancient tunnels/cs/cows did on my sorc so I just switched completely to it

>>713876746 (OP)
It's not a bad game, but the map design is atrocious. Almost every area is either massive or a literal maze, or usually both.

>all these omegabads saying to stop playing after normal or nightmare
The people advising not to grind for high runes are correct, but c'mon man at least beat hell once. That's when you've beaten the game, after hell baal dies, when your character will be around mid 70s to low 80s and fully built, not before.
Also D2r is a shining example of what remasters can be. The people shittalking it are /pol/tards mad about the pally being niggerfied and the zon being trannied. But that's basically the only place the remaster missed, everything else is so god damn good. Not the least of which is some minor balance changes (only buffs, no nerfs) so that many underperforming or nonexistent builds work now.
That said, there are no wrong answers to whether you go with d2r or old school d2 LoD with plugy. Both are good. Plugy has infinite shared stash space (with tab indexing too) and character slots over d2r.

pic related, I have thousands of hours in old d2 LoD and I say d2r is great.

>>713897827
For Trav though, the sorc does not take zero gear to assemble to have decently fast runs. You are correct that Barb also needs gear. That's the point-- by the time you've invested in either character to Trav run, you're likely getting better mileage out of Hork. That's why barbs running Trav is even a thing. You don't start Trav runs on your first character typically. Use your sorc for boss running, countess, etc

>>713897785
With terrain the barb needs to travel about 50% more distance
The sorc is teleporting something like 18 yards every .36 seconds without bothering to do corner casting and menus for extra reach
A barb with 40% frw on gear (+31% efrw) and +36% increased speed moves at 9+6*(0.31+0.36) = 13.02 yards per second

so the sorc covers 50 yards in about 1 second
the barb covers 75 yards in 6 seconds

>>713876746 (OP)
Great stories - read the books, or synopsis of the plot. Awful games - if you're into ARPGs better play Titan Quest, Last Epoch, No Rest For The Wicked or Grim Dawn. I just really disliked the gameplay, it was shit. Enjoyed the books tho.

>>713895364
God you are making me want to get back into the farm. why did you have to post that

>>713898310
>With terrain
this dude never used leap or combat jump

>>713898240
I mean there is footage right there to show you a sorc requires no gear to have decently fast runs
iirc from that footage the sorcs gear is literally tarnhelm, ali babas, milabrega's shield, wealth armor, +3 cold ammy with no suffix, chanceguards, maybe a cheap torch since they were being mass farmed at the time and given away, and harmony just to move a bit faster

if a sorc with ~4-7 all skills can kill trav in a couple blizzards its not gear dependent

>>713898501
And now instead of moving at 13.02 yards per second you're moving at something like 7 yards per second when you include takeoff and landing times, its slower than normal running (9 with 0% frw) when unobstructed

>>713898534
ohh so now you give yourself suddenly free stuff but to you the barb need 100000 items selffound and 10000 clicks to be viable you sorc fanatics are so full of yourselfs kek

>>713898226
I beat hell, got to level 84, quit. I still think the game is shit

even way back in legacy lod you guys where clowns not as much as those brainless hammerdins but on par

I don't get the looter genre.
99% of playthroughs you'll change your weapon and equipment like, 4 or 5 times at best as you simply find gear that's a direct upgrade.

Enemies will be dropping loot left and right but it's all entirely useless as you're using the rainbow weapon that's 30 levels below your current level because it's a 0.001% drop from a random enemy you found 20 hours ago and still isn't being powercrep by all the current equipment that by all measures should.

I played Diablo 2 and the expansion multiple times with different classes, but replaying the remake I'm just bored spamming the same skills over and over, when D3 and D4 let you try out different builds whenever

>>713898671
You are complaining about a sorc wearing the gear you can get for free on day 1 of a new ladder
Total fucking garbage that gives almost zero offensive or defensive abilities
It is literally just magic/goldfind except for the most basic barebones gear you pick up along the way

A barbarian who wants to kill travincal needs to:
>have enough damage, deadly strike, attack rating to kill the council
>have enough hp, defense, resists, block, etc to survive them
>still fit in gold/magic find to make horking worth it
>while wasting 40 skill points on find item / find potion

The sorc could be completely naked, teleport up to trav and cast some blizzards with synergies and cold mastery and it kills everyone but toorc in 2-3 casts and she lives because
1) she's standing out of harms way
2) she doesn't miss
3) her damage is aoe

logged on my endgame barb for the sake of argument and a travi run took 45 seconds horks included, 600% mf

>>713898751
>Enemies will be dropping loot left and right but it's all entirely useless as you're using the rainbow weapon that's 30 levels below your current level because it's a 0.001% drop from a random enemy you found 20 hours ago and still isn't being powercrep by all the current equipment that by all measures should.
This is a good thing, and something that d2 gets right that other arpg loot fiesta games don't. You want certain low level items to be endgame viable, if they fit the build. It's about the stats, not the fact that it dropped from an endgame area and not an early game area. Plus, to your point about not changing gear often, there usually are upgrades anyway, for those autists that want elite gear.

If it's not possible to get anything good at all early game then it makes early game feel like even more of a mandatory time tax before "you really play the game." Okay, there's hardly anything worthwhile in normal mode, but nightmare has plenty.

>>713899203
600 mf and thats not even his final for m right anon whats your gold find i asume arround 1.5 k ?

>>713898226
Falseflagging shartycuck pls. The pala was always a nigger. No one is bitching about that.
What is getting bitched about is dialogue being censored and the females being uglified to appease the modern audience that doesn't buy games.

>>713899113
Don't forget the specialized merc gear so her doesn't instantly die to fireballs. Kira's guardians and guardian angel are worthless but don't exactly grow on trees

>>713899203
That's not a video.

>sorc in vid starts run at 0:06 of video
>monsters dead at 0:26

you took over twice as long as someone wearing tarnhelm

>>713899467
I'm a pitzerker so it's kinda scuffed, ww probably kills them twice as fast

>>713899393
Not easily acquired but solves the problem

>>713899569
yeah but find those specific items you always boast about your vendor items from act 1 or beter you kept saying naked suddenly that doesnt fit the narrative eh ?

>>713899569
i also wonder if you have enough mana pots to drink when your merc is dead and his insight / meditation aura is gone

>>713899742
>>713899945

What are you trying to argue?
Sorc doesn't need gear to keep her merc alive against trav, a barb does
Sorc just stays out of range and teleports around

You kill travincal with a skill you can cast from an entire screenlength away while repositioning your merc with teleport. Barb can't do either of those.

>>713899389
The paladin was a cool black man in d2 and a black person caricature in d2r. That's the argument many have made anon, I don't really care. It was about the females too (i forgot about the assassin getting potato'd), but people definitely complained about pally.
>that pic
I actually didn't know any dialogue got changed. But why would I? I haven't listened to any of that in like a decade because I heard it all when I played it for the first time in 2001 or whenever.

>>713900256
>colossus voulge

>>713899569
Is steel shade really enough? If only we could give our mercs dwarf star.

>>713900020
barb doesnt need a merc either at best he might be an additional gold or mf dump, also a singer just stuns them tank the rest with bo people just want to be on the sure side so they use a cheap dwarfstar

>>713878167
there is a button to revert to old graphics on remaster

>>713900403
I am so unbelievably retarded. On that plugy account I also accidentally sold my s torch and threw my enigma on the ground and accidentally exited the game. So yes, cv, and I deserve all derisive meme arrows for how retarded I am.

>>713900449
steel shade is better than dwarf star if you max out his resists enough
dwarf star is a 0.7x fire damage multiplier in effect

trav hydras deal ~70 base damage, 0.17x vs players since they are flagged for pvp
you get 90% fire resist and steel shade on your merc and those hydras are healing your merc for 7 hp per hit

>>713900858
>plugy
you're playing single player, literally just hack the items back onto your account. there's no shame in using a save editor for something like that, just don't abuse it.

>>713876746 (OP)
Diablo 2

bad
- unintuitive maps
- convoluted requirements to reach the boss's dungeons
- ugly item stats
- ugly skills
- rare items are not worth the grind
- gameplay is tiresome
- aura-less characters

good
- well documented
- not bloated
- static offline game
- the community is still alive
- high ceiling of mastery

>>713901139
>- ugly item stats
that is literally the best part of the game

>>713901139
>- aura-less characters
nah nigga my pala has 5 auras

>>713901139
>>713901369
item stats are what d2 did right and almost every single other arpg does fucking wrong

>rare items are not worth the grind
so don't use them who cares, everyone uses uniques/runewords not rares

>>713901530
>paladins literally have aura
>necromancer weakens enemy aura
>barbarian dishes out aura by angrily yelling
truly d2 as a game is directly about aura

>>713898725
You didn't beat the game if you used hacked items you omegashitter.

>>713901742
also give player barb and his barb merc(frenzy) runeword weapons in each hand + helmet and you have a disco !

no reason to play d2 since the early 2010s. poe 1 and 2 are both better than d2 ever was and I say that who grew up with lod and probably has 10+k hours in it. there are also mods like project d2 which are also better than d2 and d2r.

>>713900858
Eth cv is fine if your merc has the strength to use it. Don't listen to the retards ITT.

>>713877065
It's not just that. It's an excellent game with many hours of content and entertainment, even if you only play on normal difficulty

>>713901784
Why don't you go beat this dick. I would rather cheat than sit around and wait for my mana to recharge, or run back and forth to buy potions while I wait for a usable belt to drop

>>713877000
If you've been playing for a long time, he becomes the best character. especially if you're playing on hardcore. He's meant for veterans.

>>713902207
Insight is the easiest thing in the world to make and you can socket any random bill in nightmare for 4 sockets. You're just bad. You're the type of shitter to input 99 lives in a mario game.

>>713899261
>mandatory time tax before "you really play the game."
i love the fact that you can get endgame tier or items that help you get there super early if you get ultra lucky or gamble for a gull, gull carried the shit out of my barb for a long time
you're not just grinding lower tier maps just to get to t15s, even grinding nm andy is meaningful to get sojs (hell is better for overall drops but still)

the other games have their own charm but that really is my favorite aspect about d2. im not fuckin waiting around for a perfect tower setup or red tier maps just for a chance at something actually good

>>713901139
amazons and sorceresses are direct damage dealers but still help allies with enchant, inner sight, slow missiles
pallies have auras and holy bolt to support
barbs have shout tree to support and grim ward and find potion to help and can spam leap
necros have a wall of bodies to support, literal walls with bone wall, and curses, the entire char is support and it only has a handful of direct damage skills in bone/poison
druids have minions to tank and auras from sages and ground pounding shockwaves to stun
sins have mind blast / cloak / shadow to support

every class in the game can support

>>713901913
poe is better if you want to sink years into it but imo d2 is better for something to spend a week or two on, maybe with a few friends, and then move on to something else

>>713901929
but bro your merc ias breakpoints

>>713902358
You're the second person in this thread to get really mad at me instead of even bothering defending the game

>>713890496
what a shitty names for characters

>>713902596
You've been seething about a game "that you hate" for over 2 hours now. Get a life loser.

>>713902603
Yeah, I should have named them BigBoobs420 like you did, right? In hardcore, you don't expect those characters to survive very long playing untwinked.

>>713902645
You think I've just been sitting here with the thread open, analyzing every post without saying anything? Dumbass

>>713900449
i think you just got fluked by that other anon
>dwarf star has up to 15 % fire absorb
>steel shade has up to 11 fire absorb ( not percent but flat)
but it doesnt matter anyway since a merc cant wear rings

>>713902729
yeah

>Tfw got Zod rune 2 days ago
I have never got anything higher then Lo before. In a way horrible luck, playing strafezon so no use for the Zod

>>713902994
keep it for a Botd

for people who don't care about graphics in here if you want d2 but something a bit different give throne of darkness a shot

>>713902994
I've found a single zod during the last 20 years and I still have it. Unfortunately, it's on hardcore so eventually I'll lose it.

>>713903043
I was thinking maybe i make fury druid so for that it would be useful or maybe i can get a Windforce or +3 grand matron bow from it, still rocking upgraded Goldstrike so my damage is severely lacking now

>>713897398
Play with classic graphics.

>>713903295
I have played actively for less then a year so getting that drop is like winning a lottery

>>713903389
Yeah that's is some insane luck. Maybe you should buy a lotto ticket

>>713903431
Wanna hear something more shit? I got near perfect Griffons 20mins before the Zod rune

>>713882876
yeah the Act 2 is a frickin slog and a bore

>>713903784
Act 2 is my favorite act. Those packed tombs are satisfying to blow up.

>>713896824
FoH paladin Chaos Sanctuary runs are GOAT

>>713896959
The problem with D3 and D4 itemization is that items are very uniform, with the same number of stats, same caps on stats, and some legendary power that's also usually bound to a specific class. Very "stat stick"-y with a power on top, since most items just look exactly the same. Just boring to look at. D4 even made you transfer powers between items outside of those super uniques.

alright bought it cuz its on sale.
which class should I play?

Aldurschads, report up

>>713907343
Barbarian because you're not an ADHD bitch that needs the screen to blow up 24/7.

>>713906948
The game begins to shine once you try pushing past level 120 greater rifts and then all of the sudden your stats become important. Greater rifts are really complicated and pushing takes a lot of effort. D3 kinda shot itself in the foot in that regard, most people are gonna get half way to that point and quit thinking they've experienced everything the game has to offer. I don't know about D4, haven't played it. It looks a bit shit

>>713907343
literally anything other than barbarian

>>713876746 (OP)
No it's an abysmal tedious dogshit that gets mogged hard by all other more modern ARPGs.

>>713907531
kys retard.
>>713907343
play anything other than barb. barbs auto attack single enemies at a time and you have to deal with buggy dated mechanics like chance to hit. pick holy fire paladin and switch to foh later on in nightmare.

>>713902968
and % absorb is capped at 40% and never gives more than 80% total reduction as a result
though if you're at full health its only half effect to the first hit because it heals before damage is dealt and thus reduces by 40% not 80%

integer absorb is uncapped at if you get hit by 20 lightning damage after resists with thundergod's vigor on, you heal for 20 life

This>>713877182
Diablo 2 was fun when it came out because it felt like a poor kids MMO.

>>713907685
Holy fire deals piss all damage in an aoe without a huge number of runewords
its just the same as barb you're attacking 1 enemy at a time

sorceress can sweep the game by going
>max charged bolt / teleport for acts 1/2/3, use it to grind tristram runs up to level 20 or so
>respec to fireball with a leaf staff for act 3/4 from akara quest, use it to grind up to level 30 or so (20-25 are the slowest until lategame)
>respec to blizzard in nightmare act 1 and cruise through the rest of the game on easy mode (you'll be level 40 and able to clear anything)

>>713907343
Just play whatever class looks the most interesting to you.

>>713907685
>foh
did they make holy bolt hit non-undead in resurrected or wot?

>>713907592
>and then all of the sudden your stats become important
More like you just start rerolling your main stat into CDR and other % based stats once you get enough to get by from paragon. And I don't even mean that, I mean that every item ends up looking the same once you hide the legendary power, which is ultimately just boring.

>>713908014
undead and demons yes. you can very easily farm pit and cs now. foh basically replaced hamemrdins.

>>713907983
Holy fire's AOE is OP in normal mode. It's not 2002 anymore you can respec.

>>713908014
fist of the heavens holy bolts hits demons now in addition to undead
makes it cover everything other than beasts
hits everything in chaos sanctuary for example, and it also pierces their magic resist so it always deals full damage. Except basically no monsters have magic resist so that doesn't really matter I guess

hammerdins deal more dps directly since they have concentration and deal +50% damage to demons/undead, but fist of the heavens sprays down larger mobs faster

>>713907791
1 is slow and clunky. Only contrarians think it's even half as fun as Diablo 2.

>>713908029
Yeah I guess. But I still stand by that greater rifts are a lot of fun

>>713908014
FoH now hits demons in addition to undead, so while you still have to skip all beasts, and areas like cows are still something you will never clear with it, it's still pretty safe and easy build to clear hell with, and great for farming many areas that are mostly just undead/demons (like chaos sanctuary)
Going for lightning damage component is kinda pointless because it doesn't help dealing with beasts, and too weak to matter, so you have some spare points to put into Fanaticism (just swap some gear and you can easily smite ubers to death that way), and you can use Redemption as your endless health/mana battery since other auras don't really help much (lightning damage is too useless to bother with Conviction)

>>713907685
Listen to this guy if you want to be a newbie shitter scared of difficulty in a piss easy game. Oh no the barb has to single attack an enemy how dreadful. Warcry barb is actually extremely powerful until you hit hell and then it's just pretty good. It's also AOE and does very solid damage.

>>713907343
Druid with firestorm/fissure or necromancer with summon skeletons

>>713908506
playing barb doesnt make the game more difficult, just more clunky and frustrating. lol

>>713908568
t. never played barb.

Warcry barb is easy mode. Late normal and nightmare is a joke. It's also hell viable and stuns enemies so nothing can hurt you.

>>713908209
How far into normal mode?
Act 2 enemies are 50-100 hp and 0% resist
Act 3 are 75-150 and 0%
Act 4 you start facing 150-300 hp monsters with 60-80% fire resist

you might get around to ~80 pulse damage and cruise through act 3 if you max it but come act 4 it won't do jack shit

>>713908283
The biggest problem with hammerdins is that the hammer arc is just fucking cancer, even if the build deals much higher damage nobody wants to play it anymore, at worst you only respec for hell ancients and go back to FoH after that, but last time I just farmed a bit more before going to them to get some crushing blow items, and smited them to not bother with hammers at all.

>>713906948
>D3
I always got filtered or stuck at a 'stat-wall'.

What exactly do you do in D3 to 'progress'?
Bounties?

>>713908646
ofc I never played barb. I am sorc/paladin only. d2 isnt the kind of game where hipster builds are enjoyable. you gear something retarded like a wear bear sorc out but you dont actually play it let alone league start one.

>>713908685
It's viable for all of normal mode and nightmare up until act 4. You're supposed to synergize holy fire with resist fire, idiot. The pulse damage should be doing hundreds by that point. It's obvious that you've never made one.

>>713908760
who doesn't want to
>namelock teleport on target
>turn on conc
>spam hammers
>repeat

the single most boring build in the entire game

>>713908685
NTA but you can easily use holy fire till A4 nightmare where mobs start getting fire immunity.

>>713908856
dont bother. dude is going on by old vanilla lod numbers not the adjusted d2r numbers.

>>713908783
So basically you're a newbie that is too scared to try something different. You only play the most meta of meta builds. I had you pinned from my first post.

>>713908779
Get a build that's good for speed farming. Spend blood shards on specific gear slots that you need to progress or make best in slot. Augment your gear. If you're playing off-season, try out the seasonal game mode. Makes the game 10 times easier

>>713908930
Even in vanilla it's viable until nightmare.

>>713908930
Even before D2R I believe holy fire was a decent normal + early nightmare build.

>>713876746 (OP)
Not the version you posted with the trannies, no

>>713908796
That is literally the numbers with resist fire

At level 20 with skill quests you can have 15 points into holy fire and 7 into resist fire, which gives 45-135 aura damage. If you get a +3 scepter its 65-182, but you probably want a point charge (though you won't have the mana to spam it)
By the time you reach chaos you're now facing venom lords which start in P1 as 280 hp 70% fire resist, so it takes 933 fire damage to kill them (before counting regen)
in an 8 player game with allies and its a unique? Now that's a 2520 hp 70% resist venom lord

>>713909053
Yeah it's still good until act 4 nightmare in LOD and then you switch to hammers. People claiming it's shit literally never made one or made one prior to 1.10's synergies

>>713908950
trying new stuff out is fun in new games. d2 has been solved for more than 30 years. there is literally no reason to test new things, I already know they are inferior versions of other builds. gimme a new game like poe 2 and I start testing new builds and pob'ing for hours. d2 aint for that.

>>713908783
Nigga, sorc/pally aren't even the strongest classes anymore. It's Mosaic sin world now.

>>713909113
All builds suck ass p8 in normal without amazing gear. Fuck off. P1 fire pally is strong as fuck and I kill normal cows p1 with a single pulse at level 30. I just stand there and everything dies.

>>713909140
People claiming its good have clearly never played a sorceress

>>713909218
you league start with 2 gul's? not everyone wants to use d2jsp or is abusing lk chests in single player.

>>713909113
>in an 8 player game
Why are you going players8 on a fresh character? You only do that in short bursts for bonus exp when you feel like you have damage to spare because of good drop or something.

>>713909209
The other builds are "inferior" in what way? Because they kill ever so slightly slower than the most meta builds in the game? Do you ever just play something for fun instead of running a stop watch?

>>713909209
bullshit you're a cringe homo that only follows guides

>>713909298
Trapsin

It might be but I started with a Barbarian so it's hard to tell

>>713909259
Sorceress is terrible until you get insight. You cast two spells and you have no mana. I'd rather play any other class through normal.

>>713909218
Great you have a power spike at level 90 after farming 8+ high runes of gear
yes mosaic is fast. Of course its actually only slightly faster than a dragon tail assassin who is so overpowered it can kill p8 diablo in a single hit now and has to worry about dealing integer overflow damage that becomes negative
but guess what
if we're judging chars by how good they are while fully geared with the best in slot equipment and max level
javazon still >>>> mosaic sin

>throw lightning fury in any direction
>entire screen disappears
>cs any boss, dies in 1 hit
>tankiest char in the entire game and can't die
no annoying charge up, nothing fancy, just a couple absurdly overpowered skills

>>713909416
Because that's the fastest way to level up?
If you want to level up fast you join games with 7 other players and farm solo experience at 450% rate

>>713909419
nigger d2 doesnt require "guides". enough str to wear your gear, enough dex for max block or not rest in vita. skills are all about main skill + synergy. this isnt poe lol.

>>713909649
You're trying to get to hell to level up. Why are you wasting time in normal?

>>713909510
You know you have slots in your belt for blue potions right

>noooo I can't spend 25 mana per spell every few seconds when the game hands me an infinite supply of pots to restore 500-1000 mana over 5.12 seconds

>>713909649
>solofarming in 8player games
>fastest way to level up
literally nobody does that wtf you smoking

>>713909875
>infinite
your belt and inventory space is limited. restocking on mana potions is bad game design.

>>713909875
It's cancer. Fire aura pally stands there and everything dies until act 4 nightmare. Sorceress has to constantly chug potions after 2 spells until you farm an insight. No one likes playing sorceress through normal not even you.

>>713909951
So many people solo farm in 8 player games that chaos/baal runners get pissy about how their games will be 5 people in a party and 3 people unpartied and elsewhere

>>713910096
at this point why dont they just add the faggy /players command to closed battle net.

>>713909951
>he doesn't have an alt with maxed enchant and a ravenclaw
Skill issue.

>>713909982
yeah and then its act 4 normal and it takes the paladin 20 seconds of "standing there" to kill a pack of basic bitch p1 unmodified venom lords
meanwhile a sorceress casts a single spell and an entire pack drops dead instantly because the damage is so much higher and focused

>>713909982
>until you farm an insight
So nightmare act 1. Just put some points into energy before that, you are gonna respec sooner or later anyway. Put a couple Tir into your gear for mana on kill. Grab a helm with sockets and put saphires into it for max mana till you get something like Lore.

>>713910253
You skip the venom lords unless you have to kill them. Everything else dies and the game becomes afk mode again in act 5. The meta for pally has always been holy fire into hammers since 1.10. You're a newb that doesn't play pally. Just admit it.

>>713910253
but thats not true especially not in a4 normal. what the fuck are you talking about? it only starts getting problematic in a4 nm because of immunities.

>>713910393
He's right that they take a bit longer to kill than the other act 4 mobs. I just skip them unless I'm in chaos sanctuary. They usually die to the pulse damage eventually by trying to chase me anyway.

>>713910351
do you skip the 80% fire resist doom knights?
do you skip the 60% fire resist storm casters?
do you skip the 60% resist oblivion knights?
in act 4 every single zone has fire resistant enemies, and in chaos every enemy is fire resistant

>>713876746 (OP)
I think the campaign is pretty fun but I've never gone past nightmare so I've never gotten into the true endgame autism grind.

>>713910613
They all die quickly with just a +3 holy fire scepter. I'm usually doing like 250+ pulse damage by that point and I try and get some attack rating so I can smack them if I have to fight them. They go down very quickly with direct damage.

>>713876746 (OP)

>>713910515
Or you just spend 2 seconds slapping them around with your weapon since it gets like 5x bonus fire damage compared to the pulse.
Not sure why are we even discussing that as if it's impossible to level up with holy fire past act 2 or something, when it's been the most popular starting build for paladin for years.

>>713910856
I just said that idiot: >>713910731

>>713910892
I was still writing when that post appeared, didn't even read.

>>713910731
That means you're overleveled and shouldn't even be in norm anymore, and you don't even get experience from doom knights because you're so higher leveled than them the penalties are kicking in

Since we're talking about level 30+ chars in norm now, a sorceress at that point has blizzard that deals 300+ per hit with multiple hits per second and some -% resists, so while your aura is dealing ~75 after resists every 2 seconds her blizzard is dealing ~400 multiple times per second

even barb is more fun to level than pre-insight sorc

>>713911206
there's no insight in classic
now notice >>713909649
>sorc
>sorc
>barb
>sorc
>sorc
>barb
>barb
>sorc
>sorc
>barb
>barb
>pal (#12)
>sorc
>barb
>pal ($15)
>sorc

gee there's almost as many druids and assassins on that classic chart as paladins lmao
and I guarantee those are hammerdins

>>713911071
>level 24 - 25
>overleveled

Stop coping, man. Going holy fire -> hammers is standard fucking shit. Some people switch in act 4 normal. Others wait until act 4 nightmare. You act like no one can kill a with fire in act 4 normal when fire sorcs and druids do it all of the time and they're doing way lower damage than a holy fire pally whacking with a scepter. Even his pulse damage alone is comparable to their direct fire spells.

>>713911335
They're being carried in pub games by the cold sorcs who kill everything in 1 shot while the holy fire pallies aren't even taking off 5% of the monster hp per pulse in team games
just spamming static field does more lmao

You know what holy fire paladins do in norm?
They sit by the town portals in a3 waiting for the sorc to teleport to the next objective and clear it for them so they can leech the quest while the sorc does everything
Its around maggot lair when sorcs get teleport and leave everyone else behind, and act 3 they'll get blizzard and start one-shotting everything

>>713911332
>classic
ah, you're an expert on the gamemode that has <100 players worldwide

>>713911557
>They're being carried in pub games by the cold sorc

No they aren't. It's so fucking easy to play through on p1 normal. Have you ever actually played through this game solo online?

>>713911667
Anon, you're replying to a retard that just wants attention. The only way to win this is to ignore his low effort bait.

>>713889832
Yep, that's how I approached it and that's why I have rather fond memories of it.

>>713911830
I can't tell because I legit know shitters that have never actually played through the game before. They do like he's saying--just just sit in town and wait for a high level to rush them then beg for gear or just buy it from a website. Maybe he has never actually played through the game alone before.

You guy's do play exclusively closed servers hardcore, right? Right? The game doesn't make sense offline let alone in softcore.

Is Rabies Druid fun? I've literally only ever played a Fire Druid even before they added more support for it in D2R.

>>713911667
Yeah, by teleporting through it.
Let me know when your level 18 paladin starts teleporting around with enigma

Yes it's God tier but play project Diablo 2 . Been playing Diablo since 1999 and I'll never play another Diablo game or clone again after PD2. The online market / trading system they built blew my mind, so much better than anything Blizz could make

>>713911557
Dude, even more people are playing solo or just straight up single player. And they just use holy fire. You want to hit level 25 before going to A5 because of level difference killing your exp gain there, so if you kill Izual and hit 25 in A4, you have 28 skill points. Easily puts you at 200+ pulse with some basic +2 holy fire scepter, so not far off from the 250+ the other anon mentioned earlier if you find something else for +1 skill, actually get +3 scepter with more shop camping, or just get a couple more levels. Either way it's enough to just zoom through.

>>713912136
Level 18 sorc will die constantly. They aren't carrying a fucking thing until they're in their 30s and with an insight. They'll tele 3 times, run out of mana, and die in normal.

>>713876746 (OP)
Nah, it suffers from old game. The one where if you don't perfectly put the points exactly as the developers intendend for your specific class, you get softlocked. It's a shit game. You can't put points into specific things without completely fucking yourself over.

project d2 with d2r graphics need to link up. sneed it or keep it?

>>713912098
nope the damage is too low and slow

>>713886790
>you enjoy this game in your own way and not my way!? b-b-boring!

>>713912148
also helps that pd2's playerbase isn't full of chinks but 30-50-year old gamerdads that dont give a shit if they're not trading stuff for maximum profit

>>713876746 (OP)
Yes but your enjoyment of it is directly proportional to how autistic you are.

>>713912371
t. shitter

Imagine never actually playing through hell mode because you suck.

>>713912301
>if you don't perfectly put the points exactly as the developers intendend for your specific class, you get softlocked
Do you even punch barb, pacifist paladin and poison dagger necro?

>>713912516
No one does those things except for one guy that gets paid to stream Diablo 2.

>>713912680
The point is, if you can still clear the game with those meme builds, it's pretty much impossible to actually softlock yourself unless you specifically try to make the shittiest build possible on purpose. And even then you still get a free respec at the very start of every difficulty to unfuck yourself if needed.

Should I play the og or the remake?

>>713912214
you got it wrong, you want to get level 25 in act 3 norm and then you skyrocket to 30+ just doing the quests to nm
norm chaos has level 30+ monsters and when you're level 20-24, you get a massive penalty to xp in chaos
when you're level 20 and killing a level 30 monster you get only 2% of the experience
you need to already be level 25+ just to get full xp in chaos, and once you hit level 25 that's when the game flips and gives you full experience from nightmare/hell mobs and your xp totally explodes so you have no reason to stick around norm anymore

just killing trav+meph in 8 player games is how you get through levels 20-24 in the fastest way possible, cows aren't bad but there's a penalty at first

3500 base xp per council uniques all at full 100% no penalties, 10718 for meph
meanwhile you kill a venom lord in chaos and you get 20 xp after the penalty lmao

>>713912952
I never felt like A4 was that punishing, I just made sure to hit 25 by the end of it because A5 penalty was always more noticeable. Either way, even more so no reason to speedrun to the point where you are that underleveled before that (and resulting low damage on skills because of that)

>>713912952
and combine it with 8p solo farming
meph gives 48231 xp in 8p game
it takes 328,072 to go from 24->25, the biggest hurdle level up you'll face until level 60+

>>713876967
act 1 up to countess is pure kino but act 2 sewers up to but no including maggot lair is pure kino as well,

>>713876746 (OP)
only if you could respec an infinite ammount of times outside of ladder. ill never understand forcing people to lock into a build in a casual mode. its anti fun.

>>713912939
Resurrected is exceptional, not just visually but also in the subsequent patches for itemization and skill balance
the only reason to play the original now is to play the mods which are of varying quality

>>713912895
I don't know what it is about Diablo 2 threads on /v/ but they attract the biggest newbs I've ever seen. It's like a lot of the people ITT have never actually played through the game before. It's not a hard game. I beat it when I was a little kid with a barbarian that didn't put a single point in battle orders. Most of my stat points went into strength. So many people are proud of never having played through hell mode or think it's only possible with a decked out JSP tier cold sorc.

>>713913572
But you can? You have 3 free respecs + farmable Token of Absolution

>>713907345
mid set

>>713913591
>wanted 2 things out of it
>loot filter and melee splash
>not added
FUCK

I just started playing d2 again, non ladder
I got a Jah and don't know what should I use it in.
Just enigma?

also is bnet down for everyone else?

>>713913772
Melee splash is broken as fuck. It's so broken in PD2 that hardly anyone plays casters. I made a WW barb in that mod and the entire screen explodes since it splashes. It's way too good.

>>713914203
for ww it's pretty broken but it makes something like a frenzy barb so much comfier

>>713913637
I cleared the game recently as 2hand weapons only Vengeance paladin. Was kinda AIDS in hell sometimes, but still possible. Made me use upgraded Steeldriver for a while too

>>713914357
Yeah, frenzy is fine in mapping but still really damn busted just playing through the game since getting 1000%+ ed with it isn't uncommon. I think PD2 is only really balanced around mapping, anyway.

>>713914480
I've never actually played through the game with a vengeance pally before. It sounds kinda fun to me.

>>713913794
Enigma is the best use for Jah, nothing else is the same step up in power nor usable on every class in the game
Dream (Io Jah Pul) is kind of fun but only takes off when you get two of them. Level 15 holy shock (two doubles it to level 30) and a bunch of good numbers, but also has a lot of rolls.
Faith (Ohm Jah Lem Eld) is a great choice for bowazons, either you put it on yourself, or you give it to your merc while you run a Windforce or upgraded Goldstrike Arch.
Last Wish (Jah Mal Jah Sur Jah Ber) is fun but you should not spend fucking three Jahs on a weapon which is worse than Grief in every situation.

>>713914656
It's solo target and kinda slow, but you can deal with immunities at least. Just very squishy without the shield to help with block and resistances, but that's just a silly run I wanted to try.

>>713876746 (OP) it is a very good game but it is also very easy, and i am talking about original not resurrected piece of shit trash, played it first time like few months back and queued up hardcore and it took just 3 deaths to complete game ( two of those were unavoidable if you do not know what is in the next door ( giant worm boss first and second spawning 20 demons on top of Your head right before diablo fight )) besides game being very simple the biggest issue is literal 0 javelin drops, if you queue up hottest class amazon, you will see literal no upgrade for your starting weapon

how retarded is going for ssf all set items?

>>713915703
pretty retarded but maybe fun
barb or pally

>>>/wsg/5910914

They uglified the characters and censored the women. I just can't get over it. This was not a remaster. It was a remake. They changed the original product because it was politically correct at the time.

They essentially damaged the game forever. I just can't let it go. They made the amazon ugly and put an irish kilt for men on her. They made the assassin fat and ugly and put pants on her. Same for the sorc. I just can't do it.

Fuck blizzard, and fuck this shit game. It is not diablo 2.

>>713917172
ok redditor

No. Maybe at the time, but nowadays it's basically just a meme game. The gameplay is absolutely horrific. For all the complaints about Diablo 3, the gameplay is so much better than Diablo 2 it's laughable.

>>713915492
If you died 3 times in hardcore mode, that's a lot of your life wasted on an "easy" game. Even when I do a relatively quick playthrough, it still takes me around 18 hours to complete normal - hell if I'm starting fresh with no gear assuming no deaths.

>>713914656
Look up Hunger werebear druids. Fastest attack speed in the game (outside of kicksins), literally hold right click and look back at the screen 60 seconds later and you will have eaten everything. You do need specific gear for it, though (up'd Shael'd Ribcracker at minimum, but you can get some really fancy shit).

>>713919064
None of the complaints people had about D3 was about gameplay

>>713917880
Funny how they managed to 1:1 replicate all of the male characters without a singular flaw present, but some how managed fuck up every single women in the game in the game from the NPC's to the characters. I'm sorry you're terribly addicted to blizzard product, but calling me a redditor won't ever make me give this terrible company my money ever again.

Buy the original D2 manual that came with the game back in the day and actually read it and look how great the art/designs were. You will weep at what we could have had in a proper D3, and what got taken from us by some fat stinky politically motivated faggot like yourself. It's a disgrace. All of it, and I'll never support it. Ever. You tool.

>>713876967
Actually good advice desu

>>713888164
D3 I bought on the switch and lost interest after 4 hours. It doesn't feel like an RPG let alone a game at all. D3 is worse than Grim Yawn, it's worse than POE1, it's worse than POE2. It's worse than even Diablo 4 (Dogshit). If you like D3 you have bad taste in ARPGs and do not understand the genre in any way. Torchlight 2 is superior and always was a better game.

>>713876746 (OP)
Yeah, it is.

>>713876957
Summon Necro

>>713921664
What I said earlier still applies. The game begins to shine once you're pushing your build and is forced to take every variable into account. Also there are a hundred different variables when pushing greater rifts. It's not for everybody, you just have to take it for what it is

>>713921664
Filtered

>>713917172
They also troonified Charsi.

>>713902994
come home white man

>>713924115
I still need a base for it Im having horrible luck with them. Tomorrow is a new day to grind again

>>713924115
>botd gpa
>not a fury druid

>>713876746 (OP)
Diablo 3 and 4 are both more entertaining. Far worse stories but far better gameplay.

I'm thinking of getting Last Epoch, is it good?

>>713920673
>replicate all of the male characters without a singular flaw present
Except not even that's true. The necromancer is fine, but the others are bad to terrible. The druid looks nothing like what he should, the barbarian got skullfucked by the realism meme and looks completely pathetic, and the paladin is unspeakable.

reading some truly disgusting opinions posted by retards in this thread. no wonder the industry is in its current state

>>713924115
>tome of townportal
For what purpose. Put scrolls in the belt, then you can have 2 more charms.

>>713915892
blizzsorc

>>713882876
>>713886512
>>713903784
Couldn't get past Duriel huh

>>713876746 (OP)
eh. it's outdated and if you enjoy doing a gorillion lower kurast runs and meph/baal farming then go for it. i personally grew out of that shit 20 years ago cause how repetitive and dogshit boring it was.

>>713927373
LOOKING FOR BAAL?!?!

>>713912895
I was playing as a summoner and if I didn't follow a specific order of putting the points into my char, I wouldn't be able to defeat certain bosses. Google the guide and see for yourself. Old games like these are shit. Also, those builds are also ultra specific you retard that takes a shit ton of effort that only people with 300+ hours to pull off. Basically fat nerds that only sit and play this for endless hours.

>>713927586
filtered

>>713927228
for some reason I could never stand blizz and would always go orb

>>713927586
>Google the guide and see for yourself
Yeah sure, I will just google "the vague summoner guide that one fag on /v/ mentioned". 10 years old beat D2 with skeleton spam necro 2 decades ago.

>>713888164
Someone please explain how D3 is any fun when the mechanics are so simplified that the only way to actually ever risk dying is being so unbelievably careless that you stand in molten and lasers while asleep at your keyboard or something like that. I remember getting into some level in Paragon and all that separated you from the level you are set to and one you are underleveled is that it takes to long to kill any enemy because you certainly didn't care what the enemy was or did, it was all just big numbers against bigger numbers.

>>713876746 (OP)
thinking about going for all achievements on xbox, but having no way to dupe kinda sucks.

>>713928549
the story

>>713890576
Monk. punching shit is fun, even funner when you basically go Kenshiro on them.
Wizard doing beam of death or chucking giant rocks is also oddly satisfying.

>>713886790
>ARPG
>challenge

You stupid motherfuckers who enjoy this genre are hilarious. The most braindead genre, even below MMO in skill-cap with convoluted skill trees to make it seem more complex than it really is makes it all a joke. You're just clicking until you see the loot you want. It's easy as shit, but it scratches an itch for a lot of people.

>>713889832
Pretty much. Its a fun little romp that doesnt overstay its welcome and just lets you go in and kill hordes of demonic fuckers, which is the point of Diablo.
Also female Wizard/Li-Ming is the hottest female blizzard has ever designed.

>>713929770
I think it helps that it's azula's voice

>>713929036
>The most braindead genre

Nah we have Vampire Survivors and it's numerous clones now which are even worse. No clicking necessary just watch as everything around you dies and your character sucks I'm the loot with a vacuum hose

>>713929983
a legal and not shitty azula does help the case.

*ahem* FUCK Maggot Lair

>>713914917
cool thanks a lot anon

>>713933231
teleport

>>713933231
I will take it over the fuckhuge Durance of Hate with the fucking dolls.

>>713934405
>moves 3x as fast as normal enemy
>deals 3x the damage of normal enemy
>deals 10x the damage of normal enemy in self-destruct when it dies
>immune to some forms of crowd control
brilliant design

>>713876746 (OP)
Been playing nonstop for the last week since reset.
87 hardcore Bonemancer. I play every other ladder season.
Kinda burned out on it, to be honest.

fuck mosaic

This is going to sound dumb but I never played these games either, How is the actual gameplay/combat of it? Do you just click and then watch your guy auto-attack and destroy everything like an MMO or

>>713936136
you can click to attack, or click and hold and they attack the enemy near your cursor. you can make builds that focus on 1 skill or that use multiple skills and you hit a bunch of hotkeys

>>713877000
>>713884247
counter point: barbarian has the most variety in skills if you are good, however you need to meta game runewords to complete hell somewhat effectively and that means looking up how to make the cheap crushing blow ones.

>>713936136
The main gameplay loop is

>cast teleport
>cast teleport
>cast teleport
>press hotkey to swap to attack spell
>cast spell
>cast spell
>cast spell
>press hotkey to switch to teleport
>repeat

some builds even get away with not needing to cast non-teleport spells

>>713936456
>variety in skills
>"normal attack on target"
>"normal attack on target with one weapon + knockback"
>"normal attack on target with one weapon + stun"
>"normal attack on target with one weapon + uninterruptible"
>"normal attack on target with two weapons but faster"
>"normal attack on target with two throwing weapons but faster"
>"normal attack on target with two weapons but really fast"
>"normal attack in aoe with one or two weapons while moving"
>"normal attack on target with one weapon but magic damage"
but hey at least he gets some variety with....
>"normal attack on target with one weapon after a jump"

>>713936898
You forgot screaming at people to death and spinning to win

Main problem with barb is just how much gear you need in order to do anything really

>>713937273
already covered normal attack in aoe with 1-2 weapons while moving

>Main problem with barb is just how much gear you need in order to do anything really
Well that's even bigger problem for war cry since it costs 150 mana per second

Regular reminder that Diablo is pretty much just a real-time Rogue-like and Diablo II is best played the same way, ideally with friends. Grinding and farming are for retards.

>>713876746 (OP)
it's a much better version of cookie clicker. If you like cookie clicker you'll like diablo 2

>>713937653
>roguelike
>with friends
i cannot think of a single multiplayer roguelike
by which i mean berlinian roguelikes, not rogue-lites
maybe the SOS feature in pokemon mystery dungeon kinda counts

>>713937653
I like to grind but to push odd builds. This recent ladder reset I started an iron golem necro.

I love grinding in RPGs no cap desu

>>713937986
this but unironically