When did the decline of Magic begin?
>>713886546 (OP)m15 card frame change
>>713886546 (OP)Arround the time commander became popular, not because commander is bad but because it's the obvious bandaid collectfags have to apply to not stay exclusively because of sunken costs.
>decline
Mirrodin
>point of no return
Lorwyn
Whenever planeswalkers made it into the game
In the last few years when they changed the wording on cards to not be legalese tier. All other changes were a slippery slope leading to not referencing the deck or hand when talking about the deck or hand.
>>713886546 (OP)Weatherlight. That's when the game dropped the mysterious ambiguity of it's story and setting for a campy comic book style serialized drama. Gameplay-wise, Dragons of Tarkir was probably the last time I had any real fun.
>>713886823this and the addition of mythic rares
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When Sarkhan Vol changed the timeline. Everything since Dragons of Tarkir and Origins has been trash
when i turned 12 and stopped playing magic with my friends at school
>>713886546 (OP)>30 year old game is now at its peak of popularity>since normies like it, it must be in declineyou are all retarded
>>713886546 (OP)Hard to give a definitive answer but I wanna say the complete collapse was around Tarkir.
>>713887287Its been dead for years, you can fluff a P&L sheet a million different ways but anyone that did play will tell you the game is dead and has been for a while.
I never really got into magic, but I do remember on v people used to post quite a bit about the dude sitting in the tree with a knife ruining the game constantly. Probably not where the decline begins, but I assume he would be when a lot of people say magic died, from the perspective of a layman.
When they stopped putting massive tits in the art.
Commander and its consequences have been a disaster for mankind.
>>713887728>tfw I knew exactly what card "dude sitting in a tree with a knife" is immediately
How did Commander ruin MTG? QRD?
>>713888391commander made the game too popular with normies so /v/ hates mtg now
>>713888297Yeah that's him, turns out it was a rock but pretty close. I don't really understand why those effects would be so good with my minor knowledge of magic, but I know he was despised..
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>>713886546 (OP)2011. The set that started it all
>>713888559so normies fault again?
>>713888391Commander itself didn't but WotC go out of their way to design every product as a draft product first and then a commander product second at the expense of every constructed format.
>>713888391not a mtg player but commander is essentially a for fun format. When they focus on commander they're essentially saying that magic is just a fun game to have with friends, not a serious 1v1 competition
>>713886546 (OP)Slivers.
Yes, Magic has sucked for the last 20ish years. Deal.
>>713888528He can turn anything on the battlefield into an elk as a plus, basically free removal of all threats.
Also in the strongest colours at the time which allowed for a complete shutdown of any attempt to remove him.
>>713888391Because they made everything about commander, even products meant for other formats are made to facilitate commander.
>>713888771Right yeah that's pretty grim, I'll stick with him as my answer then, and I know the rule is blue players are fags.
>>713888528To understand why he was hated you don't have to understand what he does, just have to know where he's not allowed.
>>713888952He wasn't even the worst card in that era, nor was Oko near the degeneracy which was companions a keyword so broken they had to rewrite it completely and also had cards banned in vintage
>>713886546 (OP)2010-2014, not just magic either, not sure why so many things went to shit around that time specifically
>>713886546 (OP)When Bitterblossom was designed, printed and then not banned in Standard. That was the start of the whole 'let's print retarded cards,' thing wotc has going. It later turned into 'let's print retarded cards and then ban them in standard,' which is even worse but the start was the throwing good design out the fucking window part. Honorary mention goes to Zendikar for printing more planeswalkers so they became a part of the game moving forward and not just a one block card type. Both of these things have contributed to insane powercreep and the game is so fucking trash right now that a motherfucking meme format where you have huge decks became the most popular and actually received design attention. Fuck I hate this game and the people who destroyed it. Oh, yeah, alternate honorary prize for Mythic rarity being introduced.
>>713886546 (OP)For me it's Oath of the Gatewatch
>all these newfaggots blaming Oko
The game was long dead by the time of Oko's release
>>713888391>commander wont influence real formats>okay commander designed cards are in these format packs but it'll be rare>okay half the set's rares are commander designed>okay this next set for modern is called commander masters >okay planeswalkers aren't selling to the commander crowd so we'll make them commanders too!>okay commander planeswalkers bring up some confusing rules stuff so we need to change the wording on cards now>okay the new wording changes were ad hoc and last minute so now a ton of misprints that break formats are printed in every set>luckily, commander has stayed out of constructed formats and always will
>>713889034>The most degenerate mechanic to hit mtg besides Storm is ygos Extradeck.Really shows the sheer disparity in what degenerate gameplay is to these two games
>>713886823This is where I felt it started
Kaladesh's block
Too many broken cards
so is the digital version worth playing?
>>713886823Objectively correct post.
>>713889587Let's not forget the ridiculous number of creatures printed as legendaries either.
>>713889817No they look at your deck and find opponents who can fuck you. If you give me 15 minutes and a sligh deck I can find you 4 dudes playing angel/priest lifegain. Or I get out my hidden stockpile/oni reactor deck and play some guy maindecking some insane anti token creature enchantment card I've never even heard of, much less seen before. If it's not that it's just tier 1 decks in an environment where you got creatures with excellent stats that do 3 things passively and have a great casting cost.
>>713892752You forgot the main issue, how they automatically give you lands at the start no matter what.
The digital version is quite different from the actual game
Is the meta the same 4 decks endlessly until they get banned like Yugioh? I can see why commander would have some appeal just for card/deck diversity.
>>713886546 (OP)how is this card so expensive when mana burn exists?
>>713886845>>When [card name] enters the battlefield, do a thing.>When [card name] enters, do a thing.I hate this change so much. Not because of the 'Enters where?' argument, which is valid in its own right, but because it just reads wrong. It feels grammatically incorrect and that bothers me a great deal. The game needs more clarity, not less.
>>713893145>4 decksYou're lucky if you get more than two (It's often only one and you play mirror matches all the time)
Also it's less that card get banned and more that whole card set stop being playable after a while, I don't know how it work anymore, I stopped buying and playing after scars of mirrodin)
>>713886768I loved Mirrodin-Darksteel-Fifth Dawn.
Affinity for Artifacts is such a filthy mechanic.
>>713893598Did WIzards/MaRo ever explain the reason for this change? I wasn't aware such a thing happened since I stopped playing MtG much earlier.
>>713886546 (OP)When they added Planeswalkers
>>713893789There are so many standard bans in the last 5 or more years it's insane. Like there was this one card that was ridiculous, Omnath Locus of Creation which came out with Zendikar Rising but was fucking banned before the set became legal for tournament play, so you just had that however many week long period between release and official play. That shit got me to quit for the second to last time.
>>713894012I never saw one but with how the text box of a card is starting to look like the kind of shit people used to make fun of YGO for I imagine it's to save space for a million other lines of powercrept, overcomplicated rules text.
>>713894137If I remember right 2019-2020 had more bans than the entire history of standard combined.
>>713892752every digital card is like that
>>713886546 (OP)Either first cross over, secret lair or the deluge of extra product. More a mix of all. Id say 2018/9 is a good cut off point
>>713894363Also an important factor was them addings "pros" to the R&D team for the future future league. Turns out, they dont know what the fuck they're doing and Oko was the tip of the iceberg.
>>713894607>>713894363Actually another major thing, the absurd amount of text on each card too. They keep making different versions of split/flip cards just to force more text and abilities onto cards. It's obscene
>>713893598The technical answer to the first argument is that the battlefield is the only place a card can "enter".
Cards "return" or "are put" or "are shuffled" into your hand or library, "are on" the stack, "are sent to" or "casted from" the graveyard, or "are exiled" (into the exile zone)
Still, "when card enters" sounds and looks like shit.
It's a childrens card game played by man-children
The game isn't declining, it's positively
F L O U R I S H I N G
>>713886546 (OP)8th edition/mirrodin border change
>>713894363>>713894607>>713894710Ooh another again. The way they use set mechanics now. Rather than simple short hand, its just a word followed by unique text anyway.
OH! LETS NOT FORGET THE REMOVAL OF BLOCKS. GOD SHIT DAMN, i hate that change. There's no time to sit and enjoy a setting, no room to expand of set mechanics and themes. Its trash.
>>713894914I know, i know this is bait. But MtG was never intended to be a childrens card game
>>713894935Mtg is for collectors more so than players now. Hurts to see, but there's no changing it now.
Yu gi oh is better for a competitive card game. Commander mtg is the funnest version of it and is a fun party type game. Any other mtg format is shit and has shit balance.
>>713894607Yea holy shit the pros are fucking awful
Legit wild how bad the sets they designed were
>>713895081It is now a childrens card game. No matter how much you seethe.
>>713895514Design wise i can agree with, cost wise? Lol lmao.
>>713895292Oh please, ygo has never been for serious player, serious players always stick to mtg.
>>713895514Children aren't dumping a thousand dollars on Dr Who cards.
>>713894935It doesn't matter how many people are playing it. It's spiritually dead.
>>713886546 (OP)8th edition but the one that fucked everything was affinitydin.
>>713895346I still vividly remember the Oko apology stream where Melissa and Paul said they didn't think people would target their opponents permanents with Oko's elk ability. Lmaooooooo
>>713886546 (OP)2020. they are basically making older cards useless with the new sets
>>713895707"Man children"
>>713894363>>713894607>>713894710>>713895009OH ACTUALLY ANOTHER THING. Modern Horizons!! Completely fucking rui ed what the format was. No longer is it a combo of mtgs best cards since the border change. Its just rotation for the next Horizons set
I played from launch through the end of Urza's Destiny. I can't even imagine how much the game has changed.
>>713893598>didn't bring back "enters play">didn't template ETB as a keyword actionif those chucklefucks started stealing from hearthstone how about stealing something useful for a change
>>713895740No, actual fucking children. Last time I was at an LGS a year ago I saw literal children buying collector booster boxes to gamble on.
>>713888698>they're essentially saying that magic is just a fun game to have with friends, not a serious 1v1 competitionMagic wasn't invented to be a serious 1v1 competition
>>713886546 (OP)when yugioh was created and mtg became obsolete
>>713894607>addings "pros" to the R&D team for the future future leaguefunny how they tried it again after it already failed hard once before
EDH is the superior format and the best card game ever. Cope, seethe and dilate all you want, but it's objectively true. If you want to downgrade the powerlevel, just play Pauper EDH.
>>713895960Definitely not the norm for MtG. Kids are much more into Pokemon and the Disney card game. MtG is 20 somethings in college/uni with lot's of spare time or 40+ somethings who can finally leave the house because their kids old enough to be home alone on friday
>>713896005This, standard was a shit format for a game like this. Like shit cards have stickers, the balancing is shit, two card infinite loops, no real combos or say start a new game with you deck. It’s dumb shit. Commander is a way better format for mtg like it or not, if you have friends.
>>713895372me too bro, me too
>>713896005Whilst true, it changed that deisgn within a year and stayed that way for 25 years after
>>713895372Love me Thoughtseize.
Love me Goyfs
Simple as
>>713896225>player-run EDH becomes officialy sanctioned Commanderi love partners i love backgrounds i love planeswalkers i love dedicated multiplayer sets
>>713886546 (OP)OG Innistrad was peak MTG
>>713896572Goated standard, even the return to In innitrad block was goated AMAZING draft format
putting other IP into Magic was the nail in the coffin
classical and biblical references were okay
>spiderman magic
>final fantasy magic
like, have some taste
>>713896572> t1 Thoughtseize> t2 Goyf> t3LiliNow we gaming
>>713896005that's seems like a retarded gotcha, considering magic had official tournaments since like 1996
feel free to bring up ante rules and unglued, but a more appropriate statement is "Magic wasn't invented *JUST* to be a serious 1v1 competition"
>>713896707Whilst there was smaller things leading to this. This is 100% where Mtg "died" and became Fortnite tcg
>>713886546 (OP)Khans of Tarkir Block. 4 color decks being playable in standard should never be possible, delve up ended every eternal format, and edh also became a yearly release that year and put us on the path to have ever card designed for retards who are afraid of competition.
>>713886546 (OP)I've heard that the competitive circuit is dying/dead essentially. Is that true, and if so why!?
>>713896707It's fine for commander shit
Making it legal in every format was the big mistake
>>713887287>most formats can't sustain a weekly game night but its peak popularity because trannies can play cloud strife edhkys yourself
>>713896707What am I seeing here?
>>713896953Wizards stoppes supporting it, simple as that really
>>713896953Woke dogshit infiltrated it just like D&D what do you think
They fell off in the midway point of the 2010s.
The initial downfall was when they banned playing for ante.
>>713896707ye this completely killed it
>>713896803In Tarkir block they had a tranny character which is a good indicator that identity politics had become more important than gameplay. They also started putting more and more emphasis on Commander over 'normal' formats.
>>713897075Them NEVER putting females on terror effects is a funny meme
>>713896225bait used to be believable
>>713897205Don't forget Gideon being race swapped, lesbo chandra. Ooh yeah, Chandra somehow being Indian but white lmao
>>713896309Childrens card game
Magic peaked at Mirrodin, and frankly the only time I've enjoyed the game as much was with NEO draft. Both of these sets had synergies that allowed players to be creative, as opposed to the current design philosophy of printing broken shit every two months that supports running goodstuff piles.
Basically, the focus is on making money through printing cards that are so powercreeped that the only way to survive in a competitive environment is to buy the new shit. However, this means the game is over on turn 3 and often determined by a coin flip, as opposed to deckbuilding or player skill.
The only way to fix this is with a HARD power reset by printing a very slow set that actually rewards planning on getting to turn 7 and beyond. However, in the pea brains over at WOTC, they can only see that players will be mining less for broken shit under this model. They don't care about how much fun it is to PLAY THE GAME. So the game will always be shit from here on out, it will be flanderized into oblivion, and you will enjoy squidward's clarinet tapping spiderman in standard
The shift from three edition blocks to two.
Fuck this.
>>713887287Anon sales from MTG have been cratering for 3 years and Hasbro's laid off 40% of WotC staff. The game is dead.
>>713897541It's just crazy how this guy used to be good in fucking modern
he's completely unplayable in modern now
>>713897541Complaing about balance whilst glazing mirrodin. You can enjoy Mirrodin i do too, but cmon bro