Is there a mechanic more unfun than parries?
>every single fucking game has it nowadays
>glorified QTE
>artificial difficulty at its finest, forcing you to die so you can see the patterns and get used to them
>even after you learned it you still have to tryhard to execute them otherwise you die
>makes it impossible to play on a setup with latency
>not many games have the balls to make parrying mandatory, in 90% of them you can still complete it without parrying, it's just a major annoyance
Fuck parrying so much

>>714027839 (OP)
most people play through hollow knight without even knowing there's a parry

>>714027839 (OP)
Do you have a better alternative?

>>714030145
Yes

Just don't have it

>>714030782
Then how else are you supposed to defend yourself?

>>714027839 (OP)
There is a fucking parry in hollow knight? Why did u post it as an example?
Yes i fucking despise block and parry too, fuck those anti fun bullshit mechanics. And devs who balance their fucking game around such shit need a punch in the face, it should be a bonus for retards NOT AN ACTUAL WAY TO PLAY.

Fuck shields, fuck blocking, fuck parrying and i think fuck Miyazaki the most for forcing this slop.

It wouldn't annoy me nearly as much if I wasn't aware it's everywhere now purely because of the popularity of Dark Souls. I hate trend chasing faggotry

I don't know if you can call it a mechanic, but the trend of save deleting permadeath in games where it doesn't fit very well, mainly due to the length of them, because normalfags finally discovered what roguelikes are makes my ass chafe

Parries are fine if you don't completely build the game around them. I mean is there anything wrong with just having it in your toolkit.

>>714028008
This. It isn't a crucial game mechanic, the majority of the time it just happens randomly because you happened to be attacking when your opponent attacked and even more then that, while your hit boxes collided, the hit box of the enemy wouldn't have hit your hurt box anyway. This is the ONLY time that a parry has been good for a game, as it isn't there as a replacement for good positioning, but as a supplement.

>>714030145
Return to tank controls and focus on spacing. Mouselook has ruined game design

>>714031341
>There is a fucking parry in hollow knight?
Yes though nobody used it.

>i fucking
another ESL thread lmeow

>>714027839 (OP)
Hollow knight has parry?
t: 60 hours playtime

>>714031341
Parry in Hollow Knight is literally
>Two hit boxes collided
This does give you I-frames, but not even as much as a Shadow Cloak dash does. It does give you Soul, even if you don't actually damage the enemy with it. It is one of the best forms of parry you can have, because it is just for defense and doesn't cause your opponent to stagger or take obscene damage.

>>714031693
Most of the want for Ironman modes came from X-com and strategy games to discourage save scumming. Nothing really to do with Rogue.

>>714027839 (OP)
dodgeslop is way worse than parryslop

I've been playing Ghost of Tsushima and it's got these big skill trees of new moves and four different stances and I don't think I've done a single one of them because parry + light attack beats everything much easier.

>>714032557
Now play on Lethal and have fun dying constantly because the parry window is absurdly small.

ultrakill has actually good parrying

>>714032654
I am playing on Lethal and died far more trying to be aggressive. It's not like you need the perfect parry, just the one that rotates them and gets you a free hit or two is enough, and that window is very generous.

Skill issue.
It entirely depends on how it's implemented.

>>714032557
>playing Ghost of Tsushima
you deserves to be bored

>>714027839 (OP)
Hollow Knight is how all parries in videogames should be. It's difficult, but doing it negates any damage, and the game isn't designed at all around it. It's just a nice thing that happens sometimes, not something that's required to progress.

>>714027839 (OP)
The only game that did it right was Sekiro and afterwards every game sucked at trying to imitate it and reduced it down to
>hur dur parry, bar go down and then enemy get stun
In Sekiro it works as one part of a cohesive combat system and even if you reduce it down to just the parry - the parry is also guarding, so if you don't get timing right you will still be guarding against an attack, instead of getting dunked on just for not perfect parrying every time from the start.

>>714033142
Sometimes a man just wants to tidy up all the icons on a big map.

>>714027839 (OP)
i was going to say you're right but then you said artificial difficulty so i have to call you a retard instead, retard
parries do suck though

>>714031893
in your what

>>714035073
Far from me using terms like that but parry is the definition of artificial difficulty. Impossible to execute it at first. Unlikely to execute it in the first ~3 attempts. Then it's trivial.

>>714027839 (OP)
Who the fuck uses parry in Hollow Knight? You're better off just dodging attacks.

>>714031893
You've got it backwards. Games that are built around parries like Sekiro can be good, but in other games they're either useless or a "the boss stops whatever it was doing and takes a ton of damage" button that trivializes fights.

>>714027839 (OP)
Hollow Knight is dodgeslop. Nine Sols is the parryslop.

>>714032076
>>714032249
>>714038287
The Pure Vessel fight is literally designed around parries though. Respect if you just brute forced it, I guess

>>714039576
>The Pure Vessel fight is literally designed around parries
I doubt it as I would bet the vast majority of players only ever parry him or any other enemy in that game by accident.

I wouldn't really call the system in Hollow Knight a parry, it's not an integral part of the combat and is less defensively valuable than dodging in almost any situation. It's more like in Dynasty Warriors when you and an opponent both attack at the same time and it cancels each other out, it's just a neat little bonus way to avoid taking a hit if you happened to attack at the right moment.

>forcing you to die so you can see the patterns and get used to them
You sound like a shitter, Op. Any decent action game with AI that is designed to be interracted with will include learning enemy patterns. You can't name a single action game that is good and doesn't include this.

>>714039576
parry only really affects that fight by making it slightly easier to jump over his triple slash, otherwise it really doesnt matter
you can parry the triple slash but thats just gimping yourself
>>714040802
Yeah, its not a parry, its called a "clash"
silksong on the other hand has an actual parry move that costs silk
>cancel eachother out
It actually gives you a bit of i-frames and makes your attack deal higher damage if it connects, it can be rewarding in theory though usually not really (specially when you get hit regardless)

The one time i really like parrying : Nightmare Kings' dash into uppercut. You can parry the dash much more easily than almost anything else in the game, and it leaves you in position for an abyss shriek right away

>>714027839 (OP)
skill issue.

>>714043760
OP is baiting and mentioning games with little to do with it, but being "forced" to learn patterns is objectively blander/staler gameplay

A perfect example is sekiro VS the average inferior sekiro clone
>sekiro almost always has near perfect animations that are super easy to keep track of
>you can see the end of the windup and its generally not unreactable *or* its intuitive, ultra delayed attacks have a clear release
>its hard to first-try the bosses, but almost every boss can be reasonably first-tried when playing blindly even if you never saw their attacks and patterns before
>you can always tell what the perilous attack is by the animation
meanwhile you have inferior ripoffs, or some shitty sekiro mods
>animations are nowhere as good
>there are completely instant chain attacks, even more instant than sekiros', that are basically trial and error bullshit where you need to know in advance
>some delayed ass attacks into <200ms windups
>every once in a while you find an attack that takes no skill to counter except you need to know it exists in advance
that is genuinely stale artificial difficulty, its both more unfair while being easier and taking less skill to play. Though it still gets endlessly jerked off by shitters who think just memorizing what the boss does is super skillful gameplay because they dont even have the braincells to ever beat something blindly on occasion

I think ideally this sort of action game should generally not require bland trial-and-error so everything can be reasonably dealt with in your first try, (no artificial difficulty), but at the same time, just memorizing the enemy attacks and when they come out shouldnt instantly make the fight trivial, so it still takes actual skill to beat it no matter what (real difficulty) and as a bonus it doesnt get stale as fast on replays

>>714027839 (OP)
The only games I can think of that really nailed parrying are Nine Sols and Sekiro. I haven't played Doom dark ages yet but seeing that they added a parry with slow-mo effects makes me want to vomit.

>>714044952
nine sols parry is just sekiro parrying if it actually wasnt nailed at all
but i like the unbound counter

>>714027839 (OP)
I like parrying. Makes me feel like I have skill that I don't actually have.

>>714027839 (OP)
Parries are fine as long as they're intuitive and enemies don't fake you out. Sekiro and Nine Sols do them right, Elden Ring and Stellar Blade do not.

>>714027839 (OP)
competitivfags that no one played with grew up and started making video games where they started shoving all the cancerous mechanics from their sweaty childhood games that they played alone in the basement.

>>714031106
Rollslop lmaoooooooo

>>714027839 (OP)
check out the boomer with no reaction time lmao

>>714027839 (OP)
im convinced that everyone who hates parries is a 50 year old boomer with a 600ms reaction time.

>>714045063
Yeah I pretty much only used that once I found it.

>>714045509
>>714045716
The ones being complained about require inhuman reaction times of 100ms (on an ideal hardware and screen) unless you've fought the enemy before and memorized the bullshit animation. The one where he winds up for 3 full seconds then instantly swings down on you.

>>714033587
>game mechanic should function the same way everywhere its implemented
shut the fuck up and kill yourself

>>714032059
by the time you invested the hours needed to pull this off semi-reliably, you could've trained so much more in this game that would get you much further

>>714027839 (OP)
Hollow Knight's parry mechanic is kino. No one tells you it's possible, it's very hard to pull off, and you'll be better off not doing it.
But when you parry Grimm's dash attack you nut.

Sounds like a skill issue lul

Fuck both parrying and dodging (the i-frame kind), give me the largest shield and heaviest armor instead.
I want to slowly walk towards my enemies while tanking nuclear bombs to the face.