She's a tough cookie.

Why did Pokken fail?

>>714070613 (OP)
>Why did Pokken fail?

As someone who plays competitively: it didn't, it's probably sold 3-4m units across both releases, still has active matchmaking on Switch, and while the scene is small, it's more active then a lot of other more niche FGC scenes that are older then a few years: Pokken's community is more active then something like Blazblue Crosstag, for example

What you're really asking is "why wasn't it as big as other Pokemon games?" which is because it's a fighting game, or "why wasn't it a huge hit and a massive FGC scene", which comes down to a few things: It was marketed as a casual arena fighter so a lot of the FGC dismissed it. The Evo 2016 showing also kinda sucked since the scene didn't understand the game well yet, and the fact it was exclusive to Nintendo consoles (which most locals don't have) and required two consoles, copies of the game, displays, and LAN adapters to run even a single setup was also an obstacle

TPCI also stopped supporting third party majors/regionals a year after the WiiU release, the Pokemon Worlds Pokken streams got segregated to it's own separate Twitch channel rather then the main Pokemon one. The added Arcade characters and patches also were never released on WiiU to be held back for switch which made it seem like the game was being abandoned

It should have been marketed as a competitive title from the start instead of misleadingly as an arena fighter (hell even in game the tutorial and movelist doesn't mention a lot of systems/mechanics: It's like they were worried admitting it had depth would scare casuals off), TPCI should have invested more in supporting third party events, and I think they should have tried to have some Pokemon Stadium style minigames to give it replay value for casuals and in a party setting, which also could have been used to teach combo timing, responding to mixups, making punishes etc since stadium minigames already deal with precise timing, pattern recognition, reaction speed, etc

>>714070906
Thanks @grok

>>714071134
I guarantee you AIshit doesn't know anything about Pokken and couldn't have written that

>>714070613 (OP)
>She's a tough cookie.
She was thought in the school of hard knots.

>>714070613 (OP)
>She's a tough cookie.
Excruciatingly boring garbage thread.

>>714072861

>>714070613 (OP)
Because no one actually likes tekken

>>714073172
Pokken plays more like Street Fighter then it does Tekken

t. me being this anon >>714070906

>>714073172
Nintendogs be salty.

>>714070613 (OP)
Because it has pokemon in it, but does not lean into what would make a great pokemon fighting game
You literally could not design a more approachable entry point for newcomers to fighting games than the standard pokemon setup of catching and evolving a team of pokemon
Fightan devs have been experimenting for decades to come up with a single player mode to properly introduce players to a variety of characters and get them used to the mechanics, and none have come close to that simple idea
And then a pokemon fighting game does come out, and what little non-multiplayer content it does have makes you pick a main and jump into arenas with all the mechanics thrown at you immediately, it's godawful and also throws out anyone who doesn't gel with all of it at once

>>714070613 (OP)

>>714071134
>someone taking the time to write more than 2 sentences is AI
I truly believe the age of intellect is truly over. Mankind will remain a guardian of technology they no longer understand or can repair until the sun explodes.

>>714075253
brevity is the soul of wit

i hope some guy makes a clone so we can have tekken at home

I never bought it because they never made a complete edition

>>714078762
see
>>714073212

>>714073752
>but does not lean into what would make a great pokemon fighting game

Sure it does. The characters all have movesets inspired by actual Pokemon moves, are animated well in ways leveraging their unique anatomy, the stages all have fun Pokemon biomes handled so well they inspired Pokemon Snap 2 to be made, and the game is super well balanced and has great neutral.

Everything your post describes after that line isn't pointing out how it's a bad pokemon take on a fighting game, it's pointing out that it doesn't appeal to casual non fighting game fans.

Pokefags don't play spin offs much less a fighting game lmao that's why spin offs are dead and everything is onn mobile now, people blame tpc and gf for bad games but everything is Pokemon fans fault, they deserve only garbage

>>714070613 (OP)
Two words

Field mode

>>714079245
>It's a good adaptation because it has aesthetic qualities
lmao

Fighting ganes is hard for poketards, they just need their baby first rpgs

>>714079751
I mentioned as many gameplay relevant aspects as I did aesthetical ones. If you want a giant autistic breakdown of the game's systems, mechanics, and balancing, I'd be happy to do so, let me know.

In fact, speaking of...

>>714079515
The Duel-Field phase shift system is one of the game's best aspects

For context, most of the game's combat is designed around the 2d/duel phase which has full character specific movelists, a height system, just-frames, cancels, resets, okizeme, etc and is straight up a traditional 2d fighter. There's a hidden PSP gauge that racks up for each player as hits land, and when it's filled you shift from the 2d phase to the 3d phase. But 3d > 2d shifts occur off of almost any single heavy/special hit or string

So 2d > 3d shifting acts as an anti-infinite system that forces a return to neutral, with the 3d phase itself acting as a sort of second layer of neutral on top of the neutral in the 2d phase. But in higher level play, it's also an anti-flowcharting, resource management system:

As different moves add more or less PSP (or can even reduce or reset it) you're ideally wanting to alter your combo routes and move choices based on the situation: You can optimize your damage so based on how filled the gauge is when you land your combo starter, you change the route so the high damage combo ender lands right when the gauge fills/the shift happens so the shift doesn't interupt the combo. Or you can go for low PSP combos that might do less guaranteed damage but will keep the enemy in the 2d phase/in the corner, to keep them psychologically pressured, to set up with buffs/debuffs, or as a reset to set up for a second combo. Or you can go for higher PSP combo if you want to shift early, such as if you land a reversal in the corner and want to get out by causing a shift ASAP, or just if you want to cause a shift ASAP to get the meter shifts give you, etc

It's a good system, most people not in the scene just don't know how it works

what’s the appeal

>>714070613 (OP)
Because fighting games are hard to most people.

>>714081510
>I mentioned as many gameplay relevant aspects as I did aesthetical ones
You mentioned aesthetic qualities and that it's well designed
Neither of those things make it a good representation of what makes pokemon as a series unique, which is not just "has super powered animal creatures that fight each other"

>>714081510
"Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm was my first fighting game": the post

>>714075253
Welcome to Costco, I love you

>>714081743
I want her to step on me!

>>714082480
I've litterally never played one of those games and I don't see how it could possibly have anything to do with what I said, considering that, as far as I know, the naruto storm games are casual arena fighters without actual movelists, combo structure, cancels, attack height mechanics, etc

>>714079515
Two words

Field Group

>>714070613 (OP)
That phase shift thing is just not fun.

>>714070613 (OP)
bad pokemon selection

>>714085480
see
>>714081510

It's a good mechanic, just poorly communicated since the game doesn't even fucking tell you the PSP gauge exists

>>714070613 (OP)
the movement is incredibly rigid and the movesets are boring. roster is also a fucking joke unless they added more content in which case add that it’s barebones fucking garbage cash grab slop.

>>714085527
People say this a lot and I just don't get it

>Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario, and Mewtwo as obligatory marketing mascots
>Gengar, Blaziken, Gardevoir, Garchomp, and Blastoise as extremely popular pokemon
>Machamp, Weavile, Sceptile, Scizor etc as more niche but still fan favorite choices
>Aegislash, Chandelure, Croagunk etc as oddball picks
>Suicune and Darkrai as some of the most popular non Kaiju legendaries
>Braixen for furries and ashime fans, see also Croagunk
>Decidueye as Gen 7 shilling at the time

The only bad picks are Shadow Mewtwo and Libre, but the former occupies the superpowered boss form fighting game character archtype (see also Croagunk as your joke character, sceptile as your fighting game ninja with a substitute counter and izuna drop, etc).

Hell this also covers almost every type, has plenty of kaijumons, chibimons, and a few objectmons and quadrapeds rather then just humanoid Pokemon, and covered every gen as of the time of release

Pretty much the only way to improve it would be to change Libre to Hawlucha, make SM2 Deoxys, and to just have more characters

>>714086007
but enough about Tekken 8

>>714075253
>reddit spacing
shan’t be reading it in any case. don’t forget where you are

>>714086082
I’m white so I literally couldn’t give a shit about tekken

>>714086021
there's no excuse for the clones
there's over 1000 pokemon
so no you cannot put it pikachu in a wrestling suit when there's a literal wrestling pokemon that could have been added instead

>>714086215
Too busy caring about "minority rights"?

>>714086349
One moves merch and the other doesn't.

>>714086481
>right this way to the gallows

it could've been worse and I agree with >>714070906. it had modest success but it lost all of its momentum even after a big boost from the switch. the combat being unique and different from all of the fighters of today is what dragged it down the most. so many people were turned away from alternating between field and duel phase, and many more disliked field phase too much to give it a try. the game did pretty well despite being weird and awkward for fighting game fans.

>>714086007
>roster is also a fucking joke
see
>>714086021

>the movement is incredibly rigid

I'd disagree with this. The universal movement mechanics really aren't that different from other 2d fighters, aside from the fact the game lacks wakeup timing and roll options, and some characters have rather absurd mobility tools: Weavile for example has great walk, backwalk, and dash speeds, has a special command dash that bypasses projectiles, has icicle crash which can launch himself in any direction and re-angle his movement in midair while also firing a projectile, he has a unique fastfall, gets an extra icicle crash jump/platform in burst, has a nearly full screen advancing poke, has a unique "skating" movement state when holding nY in field phase, and has a homing midair dash move with jX in field.

Decidueye's movement and mobility is arguably even more nutty with all the midair flips and fakeouts he can do, Scizor has a unique dash cancelling mechanic, a run stance, a hover state, and a jet juggle state, etc, to name a few other characters with cool mobility tools

>and the movesets are boring.
This I absolutely disagree with. I already mentioned some neat tools weavile has, he also has taunt which is probably one of the fucking wildest counters in any fighting game, Shadow Mewtwo has a ton of wacky and opressive pressure setting options he can manipulate the hurtboxes of and alter their effects AFTER they've already elapsed their active frames to then retrigger; Aegislash has a unique parry, can stance switch to entirely change his moveset, gets buffs the more he stance shifts across the round, and then those buffs also enable extra just-frames, and so on. It's very creative

>>714086349
Fair enough but those are 2 characters out of a roster of 23.

Cookie?

>>714086007
>the movement is incredibly rigid and the movesets are boring
skill issue. pokken was made for kids and apparently you couldn't learn how to actually play the game. movesets and movement were technical in high-level play and didn't need dragon rush or flashy cinematics to give an illusion of movement.

>>714070906
you're wasting your breath on an op who doesn't give a shit about pokken outside of being a springboard for posting about furshit

>>714087546
yes I drop boring games within 10 minutes

>>714087494
's bustle

>>714087652
So? It has attracted spergs that are saying that it's a shit game regardless.

>>714070906
Based Weavile main!

>>714087732
go back to zenless zone zero and genshin impact then

When are we getting a Pokken 2? Hoshino stopped working on Unite like two years ago.

>>714087732
name 5 fighting games you think have good movement

>>714070613 (OP)
More than anything, it was Nintendo banning its games from third party tournaments. Killed all potential organic growth. Nintendo being unable to understand esports is a good thing sometimes, but it can also be a bit of a double edged sword at times.

>>714088568
I'm >>714070906 : I agree that this was a factor, I mentioned it myself, but in the long run I think that was secondary to how it was marketed, it being locked to nintendo consoles (not that that could have been different), and maybe even to the fact the game required so much hardware for setups

>>714088265

>>714086610
shut

>>714081743
nintendo marketing in the movies. anime and smash bros

that stupid fucking shit with the switching perspectives

>>714091661
see
>>714081510

it's a good mechanic

>>714081952
>hard
Hard to not fall asleep while playing maybe

>>714071328
>I guarantee you AIshit doesn't know anything about Pokken and couldn't have written that

>>714070613 (OP)
because I can't marry her

>>714070906
>it's probably sold 3-4m units across both releases
look, I'll be straight with you. if it's not doing PLA numbers or better, then it's a flop. that's how things work at TPC

>>714081743
Loyal + autismcore design + ass and thighs + can read your mind + i'm blue daba dee daba die

>>714081743
A lovable loyal partner that's also cute and badass at the same time. Not to mention they're quite the looker.

>>714070906
>and I think they should have tried to have some Pokemon Stadium style minigames to give it replay value for casuals and in a party setting
I'm a casual who owns this game and I would 100000% play this more often if it had pokemon stadium style mini games holy shit what a great idea.

>>714070613 (OP)
>She's a tough cookie
Her cookie was built for slamming

>>714070613 (OP)
Pokken couldn't appeal to either side of the fighting game buyer.
To the FGC, the 3D phase made it look like one of those licensed anime arena fighters like Naruto or every DBZ outside of FighterZ.
To the people who buy those, the mechanics beyond 'mash attack, hit the special move button and charge the meter if the opponent isn't attacking you' and the roster not being at minimum 40 characters made it unappealing.

>>714070613 (OP)
Its a fighting game. It was never going to have mass appeal by definition. If anything i wish the amount of effort they put in to bring the pokemon to life and interpreting various pokemon moves went into literally anything else because who tf actually wants to play a fighting game? The answer is no one normal

>>714070613 (OP)
The game was super zoning heavy. Also it was a pseudo Arena fighter game.

>>714086007
>roster is also a fucking joke
Lmao wut. Mad youre favorite waifu bait or obscure shitmon diddnt get in?

>>714086349
Ahh you dont have any actual arguements, got it

>>714070613 (OP)
Target audience issues
The pokemon crowd would never play a competitive game with depth, the fighting game community would never play a casual pokemon game.
The sad part is that it actually probably WOULD have done a bit better on the proper fighting game community scene, if they weren't pussies about alienating the pokemon core audience.

>>714070613 (OP)
Is she proud of her power, though?

>>714095770
If you're expecting PLA numbers from a fighting game then you have unrealistic expectations from the start.

Anyone ever get a boner seeing weavile do this grab attack where they freeze the other pokemon

>>714102382
She's a proud mother (of my children)

>>714103485
i cant see her ass?

>>714070906
>As someone who plays competitively
>a lot of the FGC dismissed it
nah man. The Pokken players were massive spergs that scared off the broader FGC players. My local scenes were really into it but even the smash players couldn't handle the way the Pokken players acted. You need to have a tolerable community to hold any interest in the game.

>>714070906
nice pasta