you know why arena shooters died? Because they were fucking barebones
>but muh bhopping
even pro players weren't bhopping constantly until Q3 was almost fucking dead shitters on public servers had shit movement and aim so they couldn't truly unleash game's potential that's why everyone moved on to CS, MOH: AA and the likes

>>714119491 (OP)
honestly I get bored after zooming around the entire map 20 times within 4 minutes arena shooters should have just a little less movement mechanics or fuckhuge maps like the vehicles mode in UT2004

>>714119491 (OP)
>that's why everyone moved on to CS
CS had been a thing for a decade before arena shooters died, unless you for some reason think arena shooters died at the peak of their popularity

>>714119491 (OP)
quake was always gimmicky
ut2004 was fucking amazing

>>714119491 (OP)
>Because they were fucking barebones
Q3 was

If that were true CA servers wouldn't be the only ones that still get players on QL.
I hate clown arena.

>>714119491 (OP)
Because they were fucking barebones
kekekek

orbb

>>714119491 (OP)
this will blow your zoomer mind, but Doom (1993) was an arena shooter with a tacked on campaign mode

so fucking boring! im glad modern fps are better

>>714119491 (OP)
>shitters on public servers had shit movement and aim so they couldn't truly unleash game's potential that's why everyone moved on to CS, MOH: AA and the likes
That's what arena shooter fags have been saying the whole time. Slow boots on the ground military shooters with heavy rng won because it's for casuls.

>>714120721
>massive expansion pack for free
what a great game, too bad epic is faggots now

>>714119491 (OP)
UT2004 assault mode was ahead of its time.

>>714121181
>genre built on twitch shooting and being erratic
>calling anyone a zoomer
Ironic. Arena shooters are peak ADHD

>>714121960
>ahead of its time
>brought back from UT99

>>714122061
it's a unique game mode that isn't directly ripping off team fortress and isn't a hero/loadout shooter, give it a break. Assault maps were great.

>>714119491 (OP)
>"shitter"
ESL

>>714121181
you might have a point if you'd said Quake, with its revolutionary simple netplay, but no, doom was not an arena shooter first and foremost. way fucking more people were playing the shareware version and full wads than they were paying for a fuckin DWANGO line for laggy ass barely-functional deathmatch

>>714120853
Based.

>>714119491 (OP)
This has a basis in truth, but in reality is only about 10% of the reason. The real reason is:
>First-person shooters were primarily a PC genre, with console ports of those games coming later after release on PC, usually toned down to be playable on console hardware
>PC gaming was healthy around this time, but more niche. Other than CS, the most popular FPS titles would still only reach 5,000-6,000 players at peak hours on PC in the early 2000s. Consoles were where most people played games
>Xbox was the first console that was really powerful enough to do FPS games justice, which caught a lot of developers attention because, at the end of the day, a wider market means more money
>First-person shooter games started being made with consoles in mind after it was shown to be lucrative, and so-called arena shooters are not conducive to play with controllers due to the fast movement speed of people you were fighting. This is why the innovation of aiming-down-sights to shoot with high accuracy, as well as sprint coming with the cost of not being able to fire your weapon, took off and stayed a thing for decades now. This slows the combat down enough to be enjoyable for everyone in the lobby who's playing with a controller, it's a necessity if you're designing an FPS that's meant to be played on console.

So in short, arena shooters didn't die, they evolved to be playable on console. It's PC-oriented movement and combat that died because consoles have always been the larger share of the market, and Xbox was able to push through first.
>>714121181
This is also true, there's nothing all that different between Doom and Duke's MP compared to traditional "arena shooters" like Q3A and UT. Arena shooter is an umbrella term for old deathmatch multiplayer modes made for PC. Deathmatching has always existed. What people miss when they say "I miss arena shooters" is the PC-oriented combat, which isn't coming back.

>>714120853
My nigga.

>>714119491 (OP)
>barebones
Aren't modern shooters way more barebones since they have no game modes or maps, and players are limited to 2-3 weapons + a panic button?

I'm a UT guy and I feel like with the weapon variety and movement options (walldodging, wallrunning, sliding) that could've been implemented in UT4 there would have been a really dynamic and fun new AFPS to play. My biggest gripe with AFPS is how everything just clones Q3 and calls it a day. Implement some unique mechanics/weapons and people 'might' actually find a reason to stop playing quake and try something new. Everyone saw what happened with diabotical (that game's aesthetic was also kinda wack though).

>>714120721
This game had too much content
Like so much

>>714123483
>UT4 there would have been a really dynamic and fun new AFPS
UT4 was actually good and fun
Dodging with shift and wallbouncing with it was great, felt great. Everything withe the movement was spot on

i miss when you faggots would actually play ace of spades on christmas

Arena shooters have all the problems of fighting games and fpses mixed into one

>>714119491 (OP)
Because arena shooters required a higher skill level with some serious twitch skills where as "realistic" shooters, anyone can aim their gun at someone and potentially get a kill via spray and pray.

People also like "real guns" vs wacky rockets and sci fi shit.

>>714123483
>walldodging
The game had wealldodging.

They died because they require the player to think.
That’s not what the zoomer wants.
And boomers are busy doing boomer things now

>>714120721
this was fun as fuck on LAN with all the mods and map-modes
wacky vehicles, weapons, maps and characters, just zooming across a big ass map in a plane with your buddy in the back

>>714123908
Yeah the core design was all there, the game just needed tuning/tweaking, which kinda makes it sting more when you can imagine what could have been. Things like dodging off lifts keeping air momentum and dodging with boots were cool too.

>>714123908
>UT4 was actually good and fun
i played a beta build that was super barebones, how did you play something finished?

>>714123483
I think arena shooters had space to expand their gameplay, like introducing more counterplay to someone having better aim than you. Shooters a lot of the time boil down to a guy with lightning fast reflexes and a steady hand being unkillable, which has very little to do with mastering gameplay systems. Map control for pickups isn't really viable here because 1) it's less relevant outside of 1v1 and 2) the human aimbot is much more likely to gain map control and snowball his advantage further because the opponent has nothing to contest that with either.

People are fond of the classics for sure but the arena shooter golden age was so shortlived that the ideas were left underdeveloped.

>>714119491 (OP)
shut the fuck up zoomer
q3 movement alone has infinitely more depth than whatever garbage you play, and it's still alive to this day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrQLOx0EML4

>>714124758
The game was left in pre-alpha and abandoned in 2018 but if you really want to try it you can use ut4uu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3LwpI3HL6M

>>714125258
strafe jumping sucks

>>714125258
this

>>714125631
Then play rockets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47-jnpiEnAg

>>714125147
I know what you mean, especially in UT where shock and sniper dominate the weapon selection, but overall I think aim is always going to be king in any fps game whether it be apex or valorant: the better aimer will generally come out on top and shouldn't be a disparaged point. You are right that more tools for counterplay would be a good thing however.
Map control is definitely still greatly relevant outside of duels also. TDM, CTF - in all the team games maintaining map control is an essential part. As a side note, the team modes are where UT outshines Quake imo since the combat is overall more fun, whereas the weapon balance in Quake is superior.

AFPS had a chance to develop, but nothing ever really arose that clearly improved upon the classics (like quake 4 and ut3 could've done), so people didn't latch on.

I used to spend hours playing this basic bitch shit. As an adult. Why did I find it so interesting?

I still play this game with an old cd copy I have and have a ton of fun with custom fan made maps against bots. It’s even better when you download and find cool skins.


Sometimes I do themed matches where my side is all warhammer space marines and the other side is something else. It’s fucking great.


Is this on steam or anything? Are these PC versions people play this on online? I really can’t tell you how much more fun this game is when you just curate the experience with the right map, and the right skins. Sometimes I have a team of storm troopers on medium ai settings but they also have boba fett as one bot on max difficulty. sometimes I just make retarded teams with shit like Homer Simpson, darth vader, snoopy, a Lego mini figure, etc and match them against an equally retarded team and I just have fun observing. It’s a great game but I agree if you only use the stock maps and the stock skins you can only really replay it so much but that’s basically any game.


Starwars battlefront 2 on Pc is the same thing where the base game is really good but it isn’t until you start downloading fan made maps that the game becomes a 10/10 of an 11/10. Many fan made maps are of a higher quality than even the official ones which are a real treat to discover and add to your collection.

The problem is just money. There was no migration to something else which ended 'bare bones' arena shooters. The money just stopped. Publishers and such bought out the major titles and then made the subsequent games conditionally designed for consoles. You can't strafe shoot to a different elevation while aiming directly above and swapping weapons at the same time using a console controller. Arena shooters were not designed for console controls. Even Halo was originally going to be a PC exclusive and may have become an arena shooter at some point IIRC until bungie was bought out by microsoft to become their console shooter marketing piece half way through Halo's development. Even DOOM became a console oriented shooter for a while with DOOM 3, which ended up putting the series into a hiatus for many years. Quake Champions is PC exclusive, but it is so late that arena shooters may not see a resurgence.

>>714127265
Quake Champions' struggles are due to low server populations and matchmaking.

>>714119491 (OP)
for me it's WASD and mouse, nuff said.

>>714126336
>the better aimer will generally come out on top and shouldn't be a disparaged point
It's more that the game itself is limited and mastery of the interface is almost the equivalent of mastering the game as a whole. Some shooters have really fast movement which becomes a skill in itself and makes aiming harder but it's still missing that action-response dynamic between players if you get what I mean.

Team modes do a lot to improve on this though since there's a greater emphasis on awareness and strategy. The action-response is happening more, in the form of mindgames and teamwork.

Fortnite is a spiritual successor to Arena Shooters but you're not ready for that conversation.

>>714121181
>he didn't read masters of doom
they added in deathmatch/LAN mode way into development because they were having a blast playing fighting games. the game didn't even ship with deathmatch maps, you had to play on the main levels with deathmatch variant spawns enabled. please refrain from discussing things you weren't alive for in future threads, thanks.

Okay but why not take complex movement and "high skill gameplay" from arena games and make a single player FPS from it with online co-op and an OPTIONAL SMALL MINOR 1v1 mode? Zoomers get """"""""anxiety"""""""" from fighting other people in versus games so this would be an easy way to get them to play it.

>>714119491 (OP)
Arena shooters died because people can't mental gymnastics themselves in to thinking they are good
>I died on fortnite/battle royale game because I got unlucky/hacker
>I am stuck in DOTA/league of legends low rank because of my team/elo hell, otherwise I'd be challenger.
>Etc.

Every actually skill intensive game like RTS or Arena shooters eventually die, people leave to play games that make them feel good. The only exception I see to this is fighting games, but even then people trick themselves in to thinking they are good and only losing to spam/op characters

>>714128574
This.
I stopped playing SC2 ladder because I felt like shit.
Fucking Ego.

>>714127745
I think movement is the main way you're going to get that kind of dynamic in an fps though. More options to outmaneuver and approach your opponent will make non-hitscan weapons more viable. A defensive tool like the impact hammer in ut2k4 is also invaluable in this regard.

They tried making things dynamic with the imbalance between champs in QC but in the end I think people preferred the pvp having universal mechanics between players.

I think the idea is found in competition. Game codifies winners and losers. Winners feel good, losers bad. It's evolutionary that a game would harbor those that feel good about it, and push away those that feel bad. The process continues throughout the games life all the way to it's death. The amount of time to 'get good' is disproportional for newer players as they face a veteran crowd who had a peer group of relatively similar experience.

Imma write a dissertation on this. That and user bases age, have life changes, in a world where there are new games continually being developed, etc.

I'm an FPS addict, ask me why strafe jumping is king of movement and combo movements systems in FPS are essentially fighting games at their core, and also why this is the future of FPS if someone pulls it off correctly; GUNZ nerds im looking at you.

>>714128170
That would be fun. I'd play the shit out of a game like that if it was good. Like a borderlands/risk of rain type game with a good amount of campaign replayability.

Explain how arena shooters died because they're barebones while fighting games are still being made.

>>714128917
>I think people preferred the pvp having universal mechanics between players.
Of course they do. Fighting games have a high barrier of entry because of esoteric character matchup knowledge checks.

maybe a game testing you on almost nothing but your aiming skill is a fucking garbage idea.

>>714120721
it's wild how epic went from this to "please make our game for free"

>>714127659
ok I worded that sort of bad. Bethesda has money but the damage is already done. Arena shooters didn't have any titles for over a decade due to lack of funding when Quake Champions came out. The original audience already left for other things. And guess who owns Bethesda? Microsoft.

>>714130397
>please make our game for free
They kinda had to beg because Digital Extremes and individuals like CliffyB did much of the work on the Unreal series and were no longer around.

>>714130569
You're good, I wasn't really disagreeing with anything, just adding on to the last thing about QC.

>>714129327
>Fighting game
>Requires 2 people to be online to start a match

>Arena FPS
>Requires 5-10 people online to start a match

Arena FPS require from 2 to 5 times more players to maintain a stable playerbase. Fighting games can get by on around 600 players if you live in a fairly populated area and don't mind playing at peak hours. Arena FPS games would die with those numbers.

>>714119491 (OP)
>4K Ultra HD
>720p thumbnail from YouTube
>>714120721
I played 24/7 Torlan servers and that was about it.

I mean for real, is there ABSOLUTELY no arena FPS right now that is populated?
Like to play right now? for free or something?

>>714119491 (OP)
Allied Assault was so fun
The German voice lines were excellent

>>714135954
i go online with ioquake3 sometimes and there are usually a few people in the servers that have low ping to me

>>714133782
Based Torlan enjoyer. That map was peak “mid-2000s LAN party energy” - shock rifle duels on the nodes, dudes ramming Mantas off ramps like they’re in Tony Hawk. Honestly, 24/7 Torlan was the last time Onslaught felt like it had its own culture. Everything since then’s been trying to recapture that vibe and failing miserably.

>>714119491 (OP)
Unreal Tournament went through numerous iterations in trying to add more on to the formula and bring diversity to the genre. That being said any revival AFPS game that aren't doing what either quake 3 or UT were doing usually end up dead. All of the purists only want to play Q3. It's just a niche game idea anon, for example: Tribes is dead for the same reason. Is Tribes dead because it was barebones shit that was unable to evolve? no. The latest Tribes game failed because the developers screwed it up and lost the community. If Tribes stays dead forever it's not dead because it was barebones. There are plenty of niche ideas in this space that disappeared and are waiting to come back in a big way, but they've lost traction over tarkovs, overwatches, Apex Legends and PUBG/Fortnites

>>714120721
>>714133782
>>714136451
Best mode was Bombing Run
You could do an entire F2P game around that concept