prove this wrong
pro tip: you can't

m1 -> m2

wow, skill

>>714222313 (OP)

Anything that takes skill doesn't need affirmation that it takes skill.

>>714222313 (OP)
Nerf Stock stickybomb launcher and his other unlocks and you're golden

>>714222439
This is still my favorite clip of this game. Holy shit.

>>714224181
>sniper
>you literally just point and you click
>only danger is another sniper or your own retardation
>high skill

>>714224721
please don't reply to retards

i miss the pre nerf loch n load
being able to two-shot a turret was good fun

714224181
this pic is stupid bait and I will always take it because the idea that Demo and Soldier are tanky classes with the highest mobility and 0 counters is completely stupid and completely negates
>pyro's entire existence
>range
>projectile velocity
>sacrifice of weapon slots to enhance mobility
>huge sacrifices of health for mobility
>limited magazine capacities
>>714224875
it still two shots sentries
LnL is the best side grade to the stock grenade launcher

>>714222313 (OP)
W+M1 takes skill, M1, M2 takes skill, shooting feet takes skill, clicking heads takes skill, everything in this game takes skill. The only legitimate question is what takes more or less skill, but that's just splitting hairs.

>>714224181
Have a you even though this bait is fucking stale as shit

>>714224974
good to know - haven't played TF2 in years
I used to wreck with the LnL back when I played regularly. Good times

The quickiebomb launcher unironically takes more skill than stock.

>>714224721
you forgot the "hold still for two whole seconds in a game where standing still for 0.1 seconds is attempted suicide" part

I think Tomislav is the same tier of overpowered gay baby bullshit as Wrangler and Vaccinator

*kill binds*

>>714224974
>pyro's entire existence
Airblast took more skill and you can equipment the shotgun
>range
Rockets had infinite range
>projectile velocity
Doesn't matter when you can spam and get results
>sacrifice of weapon slots to enhance mobility
Gunboats ruined the game balance
>huge sacrifices of health for mobility
You sacrifice nothing with the gunboats and demo had booties
>limited magazine capacities
Doesn't matter when you can two taps almost everyone in the game

>>714225242
You forgot the part where, unless you're using the classic, quick scopes negate this downside alongside negating the tell he's aiming towards you
Frankly, Huntsman is the more skill indexed weapon

>>714222439
I can hear the cheers, mate

>>714225321
>Airblast took more skill
Lol

>>714222439
I'VE WALKED FOR MILES INSIDE THIS PIT OF DANGER

>>714225242
>a game where standing still for 0.1 seconds is attempted suicide"
Because of Sniper himself?

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCC

>>714225164
>I used to wreck with the LnL back when I played regularly
valve removed the damage variance some years back (thank god)
Now the lnl has 3 pills that do 100 dmg but still has the bonus against sentries
>>714225321
>Airblast took more skill and you can equipment the shotgun
a soldier with a shotgun out is a free opportunity to land a flare shot
>projectile velocity Doesn't matter
a slow pill/rocket/sticky is dodge-able
>Gunboats ruined the game balance
well now that soldier can't pull out a shotgun can he? And if he's grounded he's at a disadvantage. And if he jumps he only will have about 2 rockets to actually use against enemies in order to have a spare to jump away to safety, Mind you he's gonna sacrifice health getting in and out and if his enemies have a pulse they will have damaged him too.
>Doesn't matter when you can two taps almost everyone in the game
nearly every weapon two taps everyone, you still need max ramp up on all of them to do so however, and hit a direct (with a slow, limited range or limited falloff projectile)

Every class has counters to both classes or if they get caught out by one its their fault
Scout dodges, pyro reflects, engie has his nest, sniper has range, spy should be stabbing people, heavy has his health and shreds them both in close range. Medic shouldn't be fighting.
If you're getting spammed out by one of the two classes its a sign that in the game about movement and positioning you need to reposition

>>714225480
Yes

the problem with tf2's balance is that every map is a series of narrow hallways because it needed to release on the 360 so splash damage is bullshit and then they continued to make every map a series of narrow hallways because orange_x 24/7 servers made people realize sniper makes the game completely unplayable in more open maps because they designed 8/9 classes to be short to mid range since all the starting maps are narrow hallways

so the real answer is to heavily buff medigun and pstiols for longer range and design a real map instead of splash damage and point blank minigun/turret jousting

>>714225894
this is also why medic is broken btw, because "its ok that this hallway leading to the final CP is a clusterfuck of sentries and explosives we need to run through, we can just build uber" so again if the game wasn't shoot down a hallway simulator 2007 they would've eventually nerfed uber

>>714225257
You are out of your mind.

>>714225375
>I play on servers with settings meant to make snipers OP
>why are snipers OP?

I've grown to hate playing demo because of how fucking linear he is
Sticky to pack, reach frontline, blow your load, stand back and reload
The only interesting part of him is being able to charge stickies and even then there's no reason to do that for longer than half a sec
He's good but soldier is a lot more mechanically intriguing with gunboats and pyro is an engine wizard class
It feels like he's supposed to be a rage class

>>714226052
>weapon with an almost instant rev time, negating heavy's weakness in regards to getting ambushed before in position, silent, negating the ability for a spy to go for a close range decloak when timed with the usual jump rev on an actually balanced minigun canceling the noise, the TTK hitting health breakpoints just as fast as stock due to faster rev time and only, only being at a disadvantage when engaged in heavy vs heavy at dick sniffing range, slower fire rate helps a fuck ton at ranges heavy should logically struggle at, ensuring that many dives by soldier, scout, or demo targeting other areas of the map can get shit on by what should be the mid range king rather than fat fuck sniper, also essentially is such a fucking tard enabler it's no longer a question of pros or cons bringing a lunch item, you're just a fucking retard if you bring a shotgun with the Tomislav
Yeah it's a gay and lame straight upgrade even after its (((nerf)))
>>714226058
Are you fucking stupid? What in the hell are you trying to say there you super retard

>>714225849
>soldier with a shotgun out is a free opportunity to land a flare shot
All flares except scorch shot took more skill than rocket launcher
>a slow pill/rocket/sticky is dodge-able
Not every class had the previleges of having delayed damage
>This faggy argument
Being Airborne is too strong and he had all control with the strongest potential (Sticky jumpers required you to be competent with pills)
>Another faggy argument
Bulletspread can make your supposed 102 meatshot into 60, nobody can beats explosives in the damage department except headshots

Not every class had the previleges of spamming on top of Harvest rooftop or flank behind Badwater last point and get good results you fucking shithead, they needed nerf and this game doesn't do it anymore

>>714222439
the fact that EVERY single one of them ended up going stock still in awe

>>714226967
Are those trade servers still alive today? i remember i used to go there to buy weapons and hats

>>714222313 (OP)
demoman TAKES no skill, but that's different from BEING no skill
it's a very hard balance to strike if you're too skillful to play him properly

we need to stop accepting slop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeCFIrzZ7HA

>>714225894
>so the real answer is to heavily buff medigun and pstiols for longer range and design a real map instead of splash damage and point blank minigun/turret jousting
think theres a much more fool proof answer here and it starts and ends with sniper
>>714226792
I think TF2C did the "longer range minigun concept" better where it behaves like the normal minigun with a long and loud rev but shoots tiny hitscan explosives at a very very slow fire rate
otherwise the tomislav's faster wind up really makes the shotguns fuckin useless outside of dicking around
>>714226904
>All flares except scorch shot took more skill than rocket launcher
im arguing from a point of those two classes having no counters, i dont really care about skill. A lot of classes in TF2 don't require a lot of mechanical skill or have a generally low skill floor, That doesn't mean you'll perform godly though
>Not every class had the previleges of having delayed damage
i don't get what you mean by this, my point is that explosives are slow and you're able to dodge them a good portion of the time
>Being Airborne is too strong
i really dont think thats the case when you wind up landing in a group of enemies at low health
>Bulletspread can make your supposed 102 meatshot into 60, nobody can beats explosives in the damage department except headshots
>Not every class had the previleges of spamming on top of Harvest rooftop or flank behind Badwater last point and get good results you fucking shithead, they needed nerf and this game doesn't do it anymore
seriously what class are you thinking about when you talk about fighting either of these classes? Stay out of their range? Dodge the spam? If you're a weak class play to your advantage? Don't sit in a hallway thats cramped? This probably has more do with maps being chokey hallways like that other anon said.
All of the combat classes have means of fighting back, especially within close range, what game are you playing

>>714226792
The rev up time is the only thing really better than stock in practice which to be fair is really good but that doesn't make it overpowered in any way. The accuracy buff is worthless, you're a heavy you should be fighting up close and personal to get max damage ramp which is why the silent rev is a buff, but again in practice the silent thing is not that important as any decent heavy is ambushing people and catching them off guard anyways or fighting in the thick of it. It's a sidegrade and not some op upgrade everyone should be using, if anything the Natasha is the op weapon for making people want to tear their hair out when hit with it.

>>714225242
did you not read the part where I mention 'your own retardation' as a danger?

Yeah, to me he takes just as much skill as the other classes, but in a different direction. he needs quick thinking and strategization to maximize his damage output, otherwise he'll either run into horrible situations and die or not be doing anything at all other than camping at a sticky trap
>>714227068
wat

You almost never see a demo at the top of the leaderboard. Regardless of if he takes skill or not, he's shit. Definitely the least useful.

>>714227591
>First faggy argument
It matters since flares do jackshit due to their massive health pool compared to rockets coming at the Pyro
>Second argument
Rockets are easy to Dodge the explosives radius is a different problem, Spy revolver does 21 at the furthest range and his accurate spread resets every second
>The most retarded argument here
No shit retard, If you land on those situation, you deserved to die, even then he could've killed someone, destroy building, or survive with how broken explosives is.
>Second most retarded argument
How does it not matter?, Rockets had infinite range, Explosives radius is universal compared to the flank routes, high ground or cover that maps provides, engineers, sniper, spies, medic and even scout doesn't have this mobilty and HP poll compared to him.

>>714225242
standing still for 0.1 seconds puts you in danger of Sniper
if you're getting killed off scoping in you're either picking a predictable sightline or you can't spycheck worth shit
meanwhile everyone else in the game has to look at open map and flip a coin on whether they'll get headshot trying to contest the objective *at all*