This moment in the game is so kinomaxxed it's unreal. Even by Fromsoft's high standards this boss fight is so perfectly crafted, I sincerely doubt it will ever be surpassed in any video game ever again.

>>714231106 (OP)
His monologue was top tier.
>PILLAGERS ALL

So him and Mohg were born with horns because Marika has Hornsent and every other kind of specie's DNA in her from being in the jar right?

>>714232046
Not from jarring since she didn't get jarred, it is the result of some curse the hornsent put on her in response to her invasion.

>>714232046
since when was marika ever in a jar

>>714232272
Never.

>>714232272
I thought they put all the shamans in jars to try and make a jar saint

>>714232174
That doesn't sound quite right. The invasion doesn't seem that ancient, while Morgott and Mohg's birth dates back to Godfrey's era which almost certainly took place in the ancient past.

>>714232420
yes but they chop up the shamans into piles of flesh, then stuff the jars. Marika wasn't chopped up obviously.

>>714232445
It is right though.
>A curse upon thee, rotten miscreant.
.A curse upon the strumpet's progeny, upon Marika's children each and all.
>The curse of the omen shall strike thee down... In the form of the sacred beast's ire.
>May the curse strike thee... To the very last...
>...
The hornsent grandam mentions how they actually cursed marika's brood. They win in the end by spreading their fucked people into her bloodline.

>>714232445
Timescale doesn't matter since everyone is functionally immortal in the demigod family and creatives always mess up timetables outside human lifespans.
The timeline itself track, but not the timespan. Canonically it has been 5000 years since the shattering happened according to some interview. That can't be right from a logical look at the world but that is the canonical timeline for that small slice of the game's timeline. It isn't a time is convoluted thing, it is a people are generally shit at timespans in fantasy.

If you didn't beat him at RL1 with a +0 weapon and no rolling you didn't beat the game...
https://youtu.be/hOLLoPkH7gs

>>714231106 (OP)
>kinomaxxed
Just when I think this place can't make me laugh anymore.

>>714231106 (OP)
The boss itself is good, but if you do any exploring, like you're meant to, you'll be overleveled/overupgraded and trivialize him.

>>714232626
I think the curse isn't just for her two Omen, but ALL her children.

because every last child she ever had that was notable, was cursed, even her perfect child, Godwyn, was cursed later in life, and the worst curse of all.

the Hornsent somehow made it so, likely because a ton of them were "used up" in her ritual to become God, so they maybe had some sway over her being.

this is why she likely had them exterminated, since by the time the purging happened, Messmer was already born, and was her Eldest, so maybe a few were born by then.

>>714233121
why can't it be that long ago? everyone that matters is immortal, and all the people with Grace reincarnate endlessly.

>>714234854
I think the worst curse of all is Miquella's, they are not cursed with youth like people think, they are cursed with Nascency, as in everything they do, everything they are, never comes to pass, its why all their plans fail and go no where.

>>714233121
The events before the game takes place reach back 5,000 years, but that doesn't mean that the shattering war itself is 5,000 years before the events of the game.

>>714234975
The prosthetic limbs work just fine and Miquella does break his curse, so that's not what's going on with him.

>>714231106 (OP)
Why can't I try talking to these guys? This isn't Dark Souls where everyone is either a mindless demon or a braindead zombie.

>>714235064
I mean Miquella doesn't lol, they don't acheive Godhood for more than moment, and who cares if the Prosthetic works, the point was to cure Melania, which they failed, they failed at everything, nothing Miquella ever attempted went anywhere, the Nascent Jesus.

>>714231106 (OP)
shame about everything after leyndell

>>714235198
because Morgott opposes your very existence, is why, he knows what you are, he knows what you are tasked with, by Divine ordain, and he opposes it.

>>714235295
why is Morgott such a simp for the Golden Order when it fundamentally believes his kind to be subhuman and impure

>>714235889
...
Let me explain the core allegories of Elden RIng.

the Golden Order, and the entire lore of this game, is loosely an allegory to the rise and fall of Roman Catholicism, and its connections to the religions and politics that came before it, and all the forces it dealt with in its time during its reign.

this is why the Ruins of Rauh are so Greek in origin, among many many other things , such as the merchants being literal Isrealites with their Frenzy Flame being a direct reference to Tikkum Olam, Those That Live in Death being Buddhism ect.

now, to answer your question, Morgott is a "simp" for it because he feels he is a Sinner for his birth, and that he deserves to serve the Golden Order in recompense for his existence, he likely gains much peace of mind serving something he see's as Holy and pure and good, from his position as a lowely sinner for being born an Omen, and this is why he hates the others who all started squabbling immediately.

>>714235234
If all of Miquella's efforts are cursed to fail, then the prosthetic limbs shouldn't work. Instead, they do work, so that can't be the nature of Miquella's curse. Also, breaking the curse for the boss fight is still breaking the curse, it counts.

>>714234854
It is long ago. The hornsent crusades happened really early on in Marika's life. Only Radahn is mentioned via Gaius lore, and Messmer got tricked into being there himself. Most of Marika's children hadn't been born yet when Marika returned to her homeland and purged the hornballs.

Yes, all her children are cursed but it is literally called the curse of the OMEN and the horned freaks she made are called omens. The curse of the OMENS is why there are omens all over the place. The hornsent won the longwar.

>>714236332
its more that any of their grand plans fail, than building a prosthetic.

they are exponentially ever reaching the event horizon of completion but never arrive.

>>714236357
remember, the Realm of Shadow, before the purge, was actually in the center of the Lands Between before Marika sent it to the shadow realm.

her Homeland was a hop skip away from the Erdtree itself, when both lands were together, this is even factoring in that the world map is likely much bigger in lore than the playable gamefield.

>>714231106 (OP)
>character I met earlier comes back and reveals they were using a fake but similar name before
>again
It's shite

>>714236332
He isn't cursed to fail literally but he learned the wrong lessons in life as a demi-god perfect scion so none of his efforts come to fruition like he wants. He wants adulation and love, but doesn't know how to be loved to earn adulation. He does things for a goal oriented reasoning based on his better position not for a true desire to see goodness so it falls apart.
>wanted to fix Malenia because he needed her as his blade more than wanting to cure her.
>wanted to put Godwyn to a true death to prove the GO was perfect and he had a perfect understanding of that perfect system more than wanting to actually put Godwyn to rest
>wanted to create the haligtree to rival marika instead of actually wanting to help the downtrodden
Each effort fails because his aim and his actualization didn't pair or match.

>>714235889
>>714236112
Morgott thinks the Tarnished are actually insane or otherwise fumbling around foolishly in a way that will make the world worse. The Tarnished used to be accepted in Leyndell at the Roundtable Hold until apparently two major events: Bernahl's Finger Maiden burning the Erdtree and Vyke seeking and going insane from the Frenzied Flame. At that point, the Tarnished seemed like they were only deranged, not sent with a true purpose to save the Lands Between or the world. It's also thought that unleashing the rune Maliketh seals could just make things even worse instead of opening a path.

Marika is basically trying to kill the Elden Beast without being open about that, instead hoping to use the conflict and chaos to indirectly train up someone capable of beating it while putting them on a collison course with it. Marika doesn't care if that ends up destroying the world so long as it kills the Elden Beast. Morgott thus isn't told of the actual goal and, due to being imprisoned in the sewers all his life until just before the Shattering, wasn't told of Marika's threat that a demi-god that doesn't become a god or lord will be made into a sacrifice for someone who will try to be one.

Morgott does hate the corruption in the Golden Order and thinks it's filled with abuse, he's just in a really shitty scenario where it seems like people are trying to cause several types of apocalypse and/or act out of sheer greed.

>>714236461
The grand plans thing isn't indicative of a curse, just the circumstances of every demi-god. Even Ranni's plans fail if you don't actively pick her ending, and even she might be more influenced by the Dark Moon than she and her followers first think. Remember, Ranni rejected the path of the Empyrean well before the events of the game, but once the stars are freed, she's walking that same path and won't even mention or care about the security system spell she designed to protect her mother, a person she sought to get justice for in the first place.

>>714231106 (OP)
He is OK

>>714236756
Miquella did genuinely care about Malenia and other people, that's part of the tragedy of his character arc as he discarded all of his positive attributes. Wanting to help Godwyn and the other murdered demi-gods was out of actual kindness and to stop the plague Ranni created.

>>714236784
and he's right, there are more apocalyptic (from his view) endings than there are ones that align with him.

he's in the same boat as all the other Demi-Gods who have their heads about, in that Marika absolutely doesn't give a fuck about them, or the Golden Order anymore.

Morgott just has it the worst, as he's truely, completely loyal to it.

>>714236784
there's also the factor to it that Marika didn't trust Morgott enough to inform him of the plan, despite Morgott being desperate to please his mother and earn her approval, so he was trying to earn that approval by being loyal to the golden order which was the exact opposite of what Marika would have wanted

and course additional tragedy is that his dad always did love him

>>714237030
well yes, he is the literal Jesus Allegory in the story.

and on the 3rd day as he rose, we slew him.

>>714231106 (OP)
Meh tier
SSI, Ludwig, Maria, and OoK are all better

>>714236784
the Irony is that Morgott's visage would likely make him the King of the Hornsent if he were among them.

>>714234975
>they
Faggot

>>714236557
Its a video game world meant to represent much larger spans of space. Its in the middle but it is supposed to be a country or continent.
Marika has lived for thousands and thousands of years. Until her divine gateway leading to her becoming the ring holder and then removing death from the ring she lived a normal mortal life. So like 1% of her existence was when she was 30 and under pretty much. All the time after is the thousands of years of Marika the Eternal. The stuff that happened in the beginning of her life/reign is way, way, way, way in the past in this timeline that has no solid timescale. The best we can do is piece together a timeline based on events, the timescale is all fucked because fantasy. The timeline on the omens thing is thus
>marika is a girl living in the shaman village
>her people get farmed to bonny village and jar'd
>seduction and betrayal happens
>[somehow becomes ringbearer defeating GEQ here]
>sends Messmer and the crusaders in under false pretenses
>Messmer rekts the hornsent
>Hornsent curse Marika and her brood
>Marika has 2 omen twins, also fell twins boss are omen don't get that part
>omen are being born by royals
>it keeps happening to the point people might talk about it
>they get shipped to the sewers
>Marika's 2 omen kids sort of co-wrangle the sewer omens with 1 of them tard wrangling the other poorly
>Marika is a thot
>Marika's Mischief

Not only did the hornsent curse marika's kids the curse ended up spreading wider because Marika is exactly the strumpet whore the Grandam says she is. Marika's empire also morbidly mirrors the Hornsent by her city filtering their garbage people they hate into the gutters and Enir-Ilim having a lower tier that now looks like a sewer full of the dregs.

>>714237106
Morgott isn't loyal to Marika, he's Loyal to the GO and the idea of his Father.

Marika wouldn't trust him anyways, but she especially wouldn't because he's an Omen, and she hates them, alot.

>>714231106 (OP)
I love how elden ring doesn't spam you with cutscenes and they're all so fucking kino

>>714237269
he's loyal to the GO because he seeks his mother's approval/love and she never informed him that she no longer wants the GO
that's the entire tragic part of this whole thing

>>714237064
It's not apocalyptic just from his view, but genuinely apocalyptic. Morgott himself tried to become Elden Lord and mend the Elden Ring, but the Stone Platform is sealed off and there wasn't any apparent way to open it yet, hence why he thinks the Tarnished might just be symptoms of how ruined the world has become, acting on nonsense that could only harm the Erdtree while not opening the path or could destroy the world and make the goal moot. Morgott sees that there was at least some good tied to the Grace, but also that there's a ton of bad with no excuse for its own behavior, and that even extends to Marika.

>>714237106
Marika likely left Morgott and Mohg uninformed to use them as gatekeeping or wild card elements to prolong the conflicts and intensify what would be needed to prevail, thus increasing the likelihood of someone becoming strong and skilled enough to defeat the Elden Beast. Morgott likely doesn't seek Marika's approval, and based on the construct he made of Godfrey, he did know that his dad loved him.

>>714237268
well, she did learn everything she needed to make the GO from the Hornsent.

they even grow little Erdtree's there, among other obvious carryovers.

>>714237204
The hornsent had the Lamenter and hated it so much that they imprisoned it, so Morgott, Mohg, and the other Omens would probably be jailed too. The Hornsent Grandam tries to make that form of having horns be a curse to Marika's children, so she knows that there's a twisted variant to what the hornsent praise.

>>714232272
Marika/Radagon is an alchemical rebis created by the jarring process.
>The Rebis (from the Latin res bina, meaning dual or double matter) is the end product of the alchemical magnum opus or great work.
>After one has gone through the stages of putrefaction and purification, separating opposing qualities, those qualities are united once more in what is sometimes described as the divine hermaphrodite, a reconciliation of spirit and matter, a being of both male and female qualities as indicated by the male and female head within a single body. The sun and moon correspond to the male and female halves, just as the Red King and White Queen are similarly associated.
Every other jar creature is a failure, only Marika/Radagon was a success at which point 'it' used the gate of divinity to ascend and genocide the hornsent in self-defense.

>>714231106 (OP)
I hate modern slang so much.

>>714237392
I'd like to imagine Godfrey taught Morgott to fight in a "world aint gonna be kind to you kid, so you better learn to hit back when it hits you" sorta manner
his way of showing love

>>714237462
its weird Grandam and the character named "Hornsent" are the only survivors, mainly Grandam.

you think she would have totally been targeted.

>>714237528
This is something I think has credence, one way or another Marika/Radagon IS a Rebis.

they even commit the Great Work, of Alchemy, which can be considered weaving the Elden Ring into its shape that it takes.

>>714237565
all the horned warriors are hornsent

>>714237030
In the beginning, yes. His descent is earnest and he does start out genuinely naïve and innocent to the corruption around him. His descent into what we find him as in the dlc is handled very masterfully. The game depicts a manchild that tries to help but only fails. The game uses the rule of 3 to show a pattern in how each failing affects him and how the next thing he turns to fails and further affects him. But it keeps the deeper intentions pretty vague for the believer or the doubter in his actions.
Did he help his sister because he loved her? Yes, but he also needed her to kill Radahn. He either needed her alive at all or he knew her enough (because he did love her) that he knew she would go nuclear anyway and the needle playing on her pride.
Did he try to put his brother's soul to rest? Yes, but not for the right reasons to the point that the other people at castle sol doing the ritual thought he was saving lost souls not specifically a Godwyn thing. So his ritual makes the sword he was going to use only kill the things people would think when they think soulless people - TWWID
Did he try to help the downtrodden with the Haligtree? Yes, but when that failed to work well he resorted to 'alterations' to its growth that are pretty bad.

The line of him devolving into the uncaring megalomaniac is a clear downward trajectory, but it is played so smoothly that you can keep forgiving the guy every time. Until it is too late. Miquellafags don't care about that level of nuance to him though, they only want to goon to little boys ironically.

>>714237326
Onions

>>714237528
That would require Radagon to be a separate person though, whereas his history and characterization seem to be that of someone who always was Marika. The Marika/Radagon thing might relate to the Shaman culture instead, or a carryover from the Nox (who are also Numen) civilizations before they were banished underground.

>>714231106 (OP)
nah. gay boss fight

>>714237643
Now that I think about the change from Marika to Radagon somewhat fits into the one from citrinitas to rubedo

>>714231106 (OP)
why did he shrink into a small subhuman after the fight?

>>714237712
Miquella shows the fallibility of the Gods in this setting, they are the most perfect of the Gods in terms of intelligence and power, and yet they fail at every grand plan, either because they are impossible, or simply they are beyond the limits of Miquella, and likely, anyone else in existence.

they, and they alone pushed the boundries of what "could be", and came up short, Marika didn't even try, they likely had the wisdom to know the folly of it.

but Miquella ever trudged on, attempting the next grand plan, the final one, "end conflict itself".

it still involved the blade of a War God.

>>714237030
To be entirely fair to Ranni, Godwyn didn't become an issue until the retards put him under the roots of the Erdtree turning him into a cancer on the entire lands

She also figured that it wouldn't take her "too" long after she pulled her stunt to complete her plan, but the stars being halted by Radahn completely stopped her dead in her tracks

I don't get the praise Elden Ring gets. I thought it was their worst Souls game.

>>714237883
Radagon was a seperate person at one point, but either in the Jar, or elsewhere, "became" one with Marika at some point in time.

they don't even have the same build or face, and have entirely different minds and motives.

>>714236357
Didn't Godrick use this to dress up as a sissy and escape the capital?

>>714238028
The majority of it's players had no way of knowing that

>>714237972
in death he was free of the Omen, it was a pure miracle.

>>714237883
>That would require Radagon to be a separate person though, whereas his history and characterization seem to be that of someone who always was Marika.
It isn't clear exactly when the process took place or how it took place. It's possible that neither Marika nor Radagon existed as people beforehand, and that it was just a bunch of human "reagents" that produced a singular being. Or they were both kids when it happened. I don't feel like she/it was just born that way, otherwise the whole human alchemy thing is just a red herring for a DLC that is primarily about Marika.

>>714237528
Not in the jarring process, Marika was never jarred.
Marika was a master manipulator so she had compartmentalized mindsets of people to manipulate them. Templates to build off of or reference yourself against in absolute to value check yourself. It is a deep concept in the Rebis itself but the jarring process isn't needed since it itself is integral to the Rebis and leadership relationship the game is showing off.
A good example is how Radagon is the ideal warrior. Purely stoic, rigid, unyielding, uncompromising. That is the ideal. Her first husbant Horah/Godfrey was a REAL man so he was close to that ideal but not actually it. He had real human failings you can see in all his lore gear entries that Radagon doesn't show, but in Radagon's not real rendition of what Horah lived as Radagon feels like the lesser man. Marika's understanding of these principles that make an ideal warrior are in theory because she can't actually be the man that lives it, so Radagon is incomplete.

>>714237972
to set the player up for more kino

>>714238028
most mainstream and easy souls game becuz of stagger and summons

>>714238028
it revolutionized open world gaming.

it combines the tight combat and exploration of a Souls game, with the open world nature of say, an Ubisoft game.

from a pure design standpoint, its considered groundbreaking

>>714237712
The three deeds you mentions are all ones Miquella could attempt out of true goodness. It's only after various failures and feeling like he ran out of options to save the world that Miquella considered forcing Radahn to be his consort in the hope that godhood would grant the strength needed. Malenia could also break the needle as her own choice, not something Miquella would intend if he hopes to save her.

It's only when Elphael is marching on Caelid that Miquella's morals are beginning to crumble, and being kidnapped by Mohg certainly didn't help. A spirit demanding Miquella's return in the Consecrated Snowfield indicates that the abduction was not Miquella's plan.

Also, why do you think that Castle Sol's ritual was overly broad? Miquella was trying to help everyone murdered on the Night of the Black Knives.

>>714238219
You nearly had me, if I'm honest

>>714238028
It's because you have terrible taste. If you liked Souls then you should like Elden Ring, since it's the culmination of everything Miyazaki learned about making Souls games, amped up to new heights.

>>714238165
Godfrey, no, Horah, for all his faults, was simply too good for the Golden Order or Marika.

he's a real Conan archetype, and likely could be the games most heroic figure.

>>714237978
A converse perspective is mankinds boundaries are limitless and live living supplicant to Gods can only limit you within the bars of the cage the God builds of your reality. You build the God by worship and the God builds your reality to its design. The balance and stewardship of the cage he made now becomes his prison as well.
A caged god is not worth saving.

>>714238028
It's fun

>>714237972
He was bloated with all that liquid shit he pukes all over the place in his second phase

>>714238294
I'm not trying to trick you, its a fusion of entirely two separate game designs, in one, you don't have to admit its a "good" game to get why its considered special especially by game devs.

Elden Ring is, so far, the most successful fusion of two completely juxtaposed games styles/designs usually, an open world game doesn't have intricate combat and RPG mechanics and such.

>>714238176
>After leaving him on the floor, Morgott's corpse turns into a site of grace that points directly to (You)
Holy fucking kino

>>714238350
Hoarah Loux absolutely is nothing remotely close to heroic
He's in it entirely for a single purpose: to fight stronger opponents
It's why Marika got rid of him because she had no idea how long the Godfrey thing would last and the minute he reverted back to Hoarah Loux he was liable to just up and challenge her

>>714237972
The curse was broken, either by Marika at last as a "favor" (proving she could have cured it all along), his sheer injuries leaving his body with not enough of the curse in his flesh and blood, or an unclear miracle tied to an outer god that raises further questions for the Lands Between and the endings.

>>714237980
The Story Trailer shows the plague spreading on its own within seconds of Godwyn's murder. That's on Ranni, and she even went through the cursed Farum Azula to reach Maliketh, along with her having to study how the rune and the rituals work. Being a soul in a puppet body should have freed her from her Two Fingers' influence, if any, already, so her current plan was driven by spite while hoping for the conditions of a power grab and an ideal Elden Lord herself.

>>714238048
>>714238127
Radagon is always tied to Marika to the point where he's implied to be incomplete without her but she's not the same in that regard. Marika was also born in the Shaman Village, so she can't be a Frankenstein'd entity made by the hornsent. Miquella creates Trina from scratch too.

What is the specific reason why Morgott doesn't curse Mohg like he did all his other siblings in this cutscene?

>>714238568
I don't mean heroic as morally good, I mean as pure, and noble and honorable and simplistic in nature.

the most heroic in terms of morally good, at least by their endpoint, would likely be Ansbach, dude is steadfast in his commitment to do good by people and not Gods enough to charge the field against Radahn, which even if he could survive the battle, he dies no matter what story wise.

>>714238350
Horah had to lessen himself willingly to let himself live subjugated as Godfrey. I'm trying to say that Horah, at his apex without Marika interference, would have become a godking in his own right. He WAS the living incarnation of the ideal warrior. But he really wasn't due to his character flaws allowing him to become Godfrey. But before he fucked up he did live that Conan life all guys know to be the best life. You know what I mean?
Well, Marika can only theorize what that would be like. So Radagon ends up being an empty shell of a man that technically has the abstract concepts of the ideal warrior but he is a robot of a man with no fire. The concept innately leaves an 'incompleteness' to Radagon/Marika's experience so it feeds into Radagon's desire for completeness which becomes an issue with the EB up her ass.

>>714238165
Radagon lost the first Liurnian War and was stuck in a stalemate for the second one, either being driven out or retreating the first time and having to settle for marrying Rennala the second time. Radagon is by no means the ideal warrior, and he might actually be better off as a warrior during the final boss fight even despite his major injuries compared to when he was separate and fighting Liurnia.

>>714238681
I assume he is more attached to him since they are direct brothers suffering from the same curse

>>714238601
she was freed from the 2 fingers just assume direct control over her body but she wasn't freed entirely from their influence, Blaidd still existed, the 2 fingers still had the means to track her and send their minions after her and they absolutely would have found out if she'd gotten herself a tarnished consort

she absolutely had to get rid of her 2 fingers since she was under more scrutiny than anyone else by virtue of her being the chosen heir of Marika

>>714238681
he has no idea what Mohg is doing.

Mohg, up to a point, was just running a church at the bottom of the Sewers, likely at one point was loyal to the GO, till he got in touch with the Formless Mother.

even that likely didn't break his mind as Ansbach talks about him like he's a good man, but Miquella's enchantment did him in.

>>714238780
Radagon is Marika's flawed take on her ideal warrior based on her first husband, who actually was the ideal warrior to her. But she corrupted him into a lesser state to serve her as her consort.
He only reflects the ideal archetype, in flawed design, because Marika saw those qualities in the man she first loved. Fake it until you make it has cosmic consequences sometimes.

>>714238815
Morgott doesn't strike me as the type who would care about that. Mohg is becoming the Jesus of a blood cult that worships an Outer God, and surely Morgott wouldn't approve of this,

>>714239004
see>>714238847

he doesn't know, likely.

Mohg went from likely good, to turned, at some point, and very few knew.

>>714238739
I'd say the most morally good characters in ER are probably Nepheli and Roderika

The latter is just a good person in general trying to help spirits and people while the former eventually ends up being the closest thing to a reasonable authority figure

>>714239004
Morgott does actually care. His phase 2 section has him whip out a bloodflame attack on you in desperation showing he is touched by her like Mohg. And you need to be of a certain mindset or emotional profile to be touched by mommy in the first place.
He proselytizes about his perfect GO on a hill and all the ingrateful sinners around him so hard because the deepest part of him yearns to be able to be like that but can't.

>>714232514
>>714232626
The shamans aren't chopped up, it's Hornsent sinners and criminals that are. The shamans are placed in the jar along with the bits of sinners, so they can all meld together and become "saints". That's the true identity of greatjars, and you can find jar-less fleshmounds in the gaols in the DLC.

Marika obviously was never put in a jar, or else she'd be a fleshmound too. However, she still has her tribe's ability to fuse with flesh. That's how she was able to fuse with Radagon, and how Godrick, Godefroy, and the Grafted Scions are all able to just stick body parts on their body and they immediately work.

>>714239106
they are up there, though Ansbach was so commited to his morals he charged the strongest being to ever grace the setting with nothing but some guy he barely knows, and the guy with poison needles.

>>714238842
That's not the influence so much as the Two Fingers acting separately from any powers. If Ranni could blitz Marika, take the Elden Ring, and fuck off, she could do so despite Blaidd. Killing the Two Fingers was more like a personal thing, and considering that there are killed Two Fingers atop the Divine Towers, even the Fingerslayer Blade might not be necessary, but instead a suspicious misdirection from the Dark Moon. Also, if the Two Fingers could directly puppeteer Empyreans, Marika's own would have probably tried that ages prior.

>>714238908
Considering that Messmer exists and seems to be Marika's oldest child, Radagon probably existed even before Hoarah Loux was Elden Lord. If a lord is needed to use the Gate of Divinity, Marika might have created Radagon at Enir-Ilim for her ascension, tried to repopulate the Shamans afterward, then shunted him into obscurity when Messmer was born cursed.

>>714238681
>>714238815
>>714238847
>>714239004
Morgott likely doesn't know that Mohg is the Lord of Blood. Not even Gideon knows that, and Mohg wasn't born into the same roles and responsibilities as the other demi-gods. Morgott holds himself to a standard that he chose, but Mohg never picked such a thing to Morgott's knowledge. If Morgott knew, he'd certainly be displeased.

>>714235889
He's basically a black white supremacist

>>714239410
lol no, he's a flagellant sinner. as stated in this thread, GO is Roman catholic to its core.

it even has a very obvious Martin Luthur Figure strolling in with a Gold Mask trying to fix it.

>>714239365
>The shamans aren't chopped up

>>714239820
>the condemned

>>714239886
>implying the shamans aren't condemned to be chopped up into jars

Why can Fromdrones not just say something is good? Why does it always have to be "the best ever"? Absolutist thinking is low IQ cult like behaviour

>>714240028
ur a tendie

>>714238568
She unironically makes him drink some sap to mindfuck him so this won't happen. In his final fight with us he's still there answering his woman's call at the 11th hour.

>>714239998
They aren't. Hornsent criminals are the condemned. The Hornsent society was not uniform in agreement, you can find condemned prisoner ghosts in the gaols.

>>714238568
Marika had the plan to create a war and indirectly train a warrior who'd kill the Elden Beast even when Godfrey was Elden Lord. That's why she banished him and his clan.

>>714240245
Serosh was the only limiter on Godfrey's mentality and strength and skill, and Hoarah Loux had the means to remove him in a rare case that called for it related to combat and the Tarnished's goal. The sap related to the DLC talisman is probably the same as the sap for the healing flasks, Crystal Tears, etc. Also, considering Hoarah Loux's "a crown is warranted with strength" mentality, Marika probably had to kick his ass as a god before he'd be her ally.

Two questions:
1-Why did Marika kill the hornsent?
2-Where does the scarlet rot come from? I thought it was just a Malenia thing but the fact that it's present in the dlc confused me

>>714240426
read

>>714240553
The hornsent genocided Marika's people, hence Marika's vengeance against the hornsent. The Scarlet Rot is from an outer god that a blind swordsman sealed (with the help of a blue fairy) at the Lake of Rot. This swordsman would later go on to train Malenia.

>>714240681
That neither says nor implies anything about the sap brainwashing Godfrey. The talisman itself also just gives you extra poise when drinking from flasks. His armor also indicates that this talisman depicts a moment after he already had Serosh.

>>714240553
The Hornsent deserved it. Think of Hornsent society as precolumbian Aztec society, complete with human sacrifice and cannibalism on a mass scale, and Messmer's Crusade as the conquistadors who came and torched everything.

Scarlet Rot is an otherworldly force of nature. Malenia's just the most prominent sufferer of the disease.

>>714237980
>She also figured that it wouldn't take her "too" long after she pulled her stunt to complete her plan, but the stars being halted by Radahn completely stopped her dead in her tracks
Radahn stops the stars before the shattering, before Rannis plan was put into action. She knew the stars and thus her destiny was frozen; a contributing factor to her lashing out and instigating the shattering.

>>714240776
my dude come the fuck on you can't be that dense.
>The talisman itself also just gives you extra poise when drinking from flasks.
why do you think it is called a flask of tears? What does red or blue represent in the game? What does the erdtree do to people fed to it? What is he drinking?
Piece it together bro. The dude drank some sap of the tree and got changed as a result. The things that come from the tree are the result of the tree eating that thing. He's ingesting some sort of sap marika gave him from that tree.
>it only increases poise
And that poise increase is coming from somewhere, in a not game mechanics sense. Put it together and figure out what happened.

>>714240917
The stars likely weren't frozen by Radahn until after the Shattering. There are large chunks of debris from Farum Azula blocking roads with Erdtree designs on them, so the meteorite that hit Farum Azula would have needed to do so after the Golden Order had extensively spread across the continent but before Radahn defeated space, an event that would prevent such events. Considering that some Farum Azula debris hit so close to Raya Lucaria and the Caria Manor that it destroyed the bridge heading toward the Grand Lift of Dectus, the Farum Azula meteorite might have been a motivation for Radahn to become the Starscourge.

>>714240709
>>714240827
1-Why are the pillars in Enir-Ilim apparently made of humans? I noticed they don't have horns as well, where Marika's people also used by the hornsent to build the place?
2-Why didn't the hornsent use the divinity gate to make a god of their own?

>>714240264
You can find ghosts of would be shamans dreading being chopped iirc

>>714241105
Where?

>>714240961
They're not called tears due to human misery or anything like that, and we see similar naming patterns with the Silver and Mimic Tears. The Erdtree is implied to house souls, but doesn't seem to destroy them or gain nutrients in ways other than how a tree normally would. Godfrey was already a great warrior before meeting Marika, and the talisman indicates he was already Elden Lord and thus had Serosh limiting him. Also, why would the sap be giving Godfrey other people's poise, so to speak, if it's the talisman that bestows the effect?

>>714241098
>Why are the pillars in Enir-Ilim apparently made of humans?
result of sacrifices on big scale.
>Why didn't the hornsent use the divinity gate to make a god of their own?
They try and fail and only get close enough to allow some sort of thing to pilot their greatest warriors. They lack the something special to have the qualities required of godhood due to their culture or dna or whatever.

>>714241136
Dlc, the village you access through a tunnel, my memory is choppy though, I've played through most of ER high.

>>714232046
Godfrey's seed. None of her other children have hornsent in them.

>>714231106 (OP)
ER is forgettable and terrible. Gen Alphas first dork souls.

I don't understand the implications of removing the rune of death from the elden ring. Does that mean everyone in the game is immortal? Or just the demigods? And why do you need the rune to burn the tree?

>>714232445
Correct. Everything else here is cope

>>714241235
You mean Bonny Village? That's not what that phantom says.
>"For pity's sake, your place is in the jar. Nigh-sainthood itself awaits you within. For shamans like you, this is your lot. Life were you accorded for this alone."

>>714241098
Enir-Ilim appears to be made out of massacred humans/jar innard monsters made from massacred humans. The building was seemingly transmuted into bricks and the like a la Rennala's "sweetings" projectile attack, but the damage from Messmer's crusade started reverting Enir-Ilim back into its true components. The Shamans were potentially used to build the entire tower, but the Gate of Divinity itself seems to have required some hornsent, hence stuff like the hornsent spirit in a gaol begging to not be put in a torture jar.

The hornsent likely couldn't use the Gate of Divinity on their own. In Elden Ring, it seems that only Empyreans can become gods, and being an Empyrean seems to be a trait at birth rather than something a person can become. As such, the hornsent had no one who could use the Gate of Divinity, whereas Marika, as an Empyrean, could use it.

>>714241105
>>714241136
Those are hornsent spirits, you can see their horns. The Shamans probably were maimed just like the condemned though, but perhaps not as thoroughly/severely.

>>714234975
Miquella's curse is innocence. It's why he doesn't age past a child and thinks an age of peace is functional

>>714231106 (OP)
it's one of the best bosses in the game but i have a very low opinion of Elden Ring bosses
the cutscene and overall presentation is sick though

>>714241425
Then I may be confusing it with something I read in Marika's village... my bad

>>714235889
It's all he knows. He was locked up and feed the propaganda

>>714241209
I didn't imply sadness I implied what you implied. The tree eats people and creates cracked tears over time as well.
Looping back to NR you can see the microcosm scale of the macrocosm scale of the interconnected components of life that creates the magic fueling the setting there. The cycle of life and death the nightfarers are going thru in that game is feeding some sort of cycle that creates grace for the lands between outside. You can see in the game that the nightfarers are good people and they live hard lives but come together to build a sum greater than its part. The things they learn the way they grow and how they do it all selflessly to save people they'll never meet or know is what is fueling the magic in this setting on a deeper level than those magic rocks from space. Those magic rocks from space are 'charged' by the life cycle being lived.
Looping back to Godfrey and ER with that in mind, and knowing the erdtree is always about control I'd assume that the sap Godfrey took was something to control him.

I think it was more like a magical drug than some mind control. the up in poise is because he is on performance enhancing supplements to pair with his wrasslin archetype. Gear makes you feel like a million bucks man.

>>714241373
According to interviews, it only affected the demi-gods. As for why the rune is needed, it seems to give an extra oomph to the flames from the Forge. The fact that the rune seems to naturally clash with the appearance of the Elden Ring, doesn't seem to go to the Elden Ring, etc. is left unclear, and perhaps it was even an attempted mending rune made by the Gloam-Eyed Queen that was removed as quickly as it was subsumed by Marika and her order.

>>714237258
FUCKING PRONOUNS

>>714241634
The Erdtree doesn't particularly absorb people, even the ancient remains in the catacombs aren't particularly being taken into the tree. In that regard, the Erdtree seems more like a normal, albeit gigantic, tree. Nightreign isn't tied to the canon plot and such of Elden Ring, so I wouldn't use it as a source in that regard. That stuff you said about Nightreign still doesn't imply that Godfrey was controlled by the sap. That might just be Marika bestowing a buff a la the Crystal Tears, or a moment after a battle. As for magical drugs, that's stuff in the Perfumer's repertoire, and the talisman works for drinking any tears rather than a certain mix.

>>714231106 (OP)
Morgott did nothing wrong

>>714241854
>The Erdtree doesn't particularly absorb people
The people given erdtree burial are in time funneled into its roots and consumed. Topside a red visciousy residue of resin leaks from the roots of the tree. It's eating people to power itself.
Nightreign isn't connected to Elden Ring's plot but it is related to Elden Ring's overall world. The grace that Marika has control over is coming from some sort of excess overflow from the Nightfarers you see that in all their endings.

you guys are fucking stupid. The monster fag literally just talks nonsense jibberish. The games are about the fights there are no kino moments outside of the gameplay.

>>714233121
>Malenia was sleeping and Radahn was roaming and rotting for 5000 years
time is convoluted

zanzibart....

>>714237528
Radagon is an aspect of Marika, her faith to the GO, hence why he tries to repair the Ring. Like how Trina is an aspect of Miquella that he disposed of Ranni and Godwyn are also aspects of Marika, her determination to end the order and dedication to the cause respectively. Godwyn was a willing sacrifice, it's why he was buried underneath the Erd tree to spread the deathblight

>>714242090
Nah it is just a very typical thing in most fantasy or sci fi when the author is getting into timescales the human mind can't really conceptualize so they throw out numbers that don't really make sense.

>>714237712
this is why I find the memory of the vow so interesting. he's on his knees and the tone of the delivery is pleading, almost begging. "I'm going to become a god" sounds like something he's dreading. he knows full well what it means to become a god, but it's the path he's put himself on regardless. the fallen amber glintstone you find in Altus was foreshadowing.

>>714237268
What's not to get about the Fell Twins? They're just two omens who guard the divine tower of Leyndell.

>>714242247
It sounded like if the cutscene were an hour of him sitting there he'd say it like that over and over again.
>>714242291
Seems weird to have something that is close to what Mohg and Morgott represent as a boss in that spot and have no real sort of explanation. I get all the Mohg stuff, all the Morgott stuff, all the Omen stuff, but don't get why 2 jobber copies of the brothers are a shit boss. The more you know about the lore the more you get they are a lesser parallel to the brothers but... why?

>>714242472
>but... why?
fallguys if the real M&Ms got seen

>>714242012
Erdtree burial is about bringing the souls to the Erdtree, not the bodies. The Erdtree doesn't appear to absorb bodies very well, and as a tree, the roots are potentially feeding on anything, such as sheer minerals in the soil, if such a mystical tree even has to actually feed. Resin is akin to a tree's blood. The Nightfarers don't seem to be the source of Grace, but something akin to souls in the Erdtree.

>>714242167
Your spoilered text is nonsense, Ranni and Godwyn don't even share a set of parents. There were other demi-gods murdered by Ranni too.

>>714242687
>not the bodies.
Thats why it secretes the body out as resin. you get what I'm saying but you don't.
The souls its eating? The gold color the erdtree has and that sap that Godfrey drinks that gives him nice poise? It is coming from an element of those souls that the erdtree absorbs. Red is the body in elden ring, the lifeblood. Blue is magic. Gold is grace. That sap Godfrey is drinking is coming from the grace of the souls the erdtree absorbs.
>The Nightfarers don't seem to be the source of Grace
The ending of the game has grace manifest from the various areas the nightfarers hung out at in their roundtable and it flies out to the lands between. Seeing that grace is why WylderHeolstor decides to walk away (he sees his story has meaning for the world outside).
>I got turned into a monster that has to be killed forever until I quit but everyone else has some grace so the net happiness in world went up
unironically yes. It is max retarded but told well.

>>714242687
>Ranni and Godwyn don't even share a set of parents
Retarded take.You believe the propaganda blindly. Why would Marika tell everyone her aspects are part of her when she's trying to betray the order? She sent Ranni off with Radagon to Raya. Marika always has only two children when reproducing.
Omen Twins,
Raya brothers,
Cursed siblings,
Hidden siblings
It's also why the death mark had to be split between Ranni and Godwyn. Otherwise any demi god would have worked.

>>714242965
Also, I said NR was a micro of the macro elden ring works on. grace comes from all life on all scales, NR only shows it happening in quick loops and showing the outcome to spell it out for you if you haven't gotten how it works in ER yet.

>>714242965
We have no reason to believe that the Root Resin is the remains of bodies being secreted. It's more likely to be actual tree resin. We also have no reason to believe that souls are devoured, especially since Melina is still around as a spirit and Marika does revive the Tarnished. Also, soul enemies aren't gold, they're blue, green, etc. and the speaking souls are white. The Grace probably doesn't have to be taken from people's souls, especially since Marika can distribute it directly to the Tarnished. The Nightfarers arguably transform so as to fuse with the tree giant, and then there's the matter of Heolstor's rune and whatever it does in that scenario. We're not even sure if the tree giant is sent to attack, guard, etc., Nightreign's ending is especially unclear.

>>714243018
Ranni is literally born from Rennala, she's not a splinter of Marika a la Radagon. Godwyn is literally born with Hoarah Loux as his father to boot. They're not Radagon-esque entities, and Ranni despises Marika and doesn't work with her. The demi-gods in the Wandering Mausoleums also indicate that Marika's children weren't just limited to the named ones, and a spirit at the Weeping Peninsula even calls one of those demi-gods Marika's child, so they're not all descended from Godwyn. Ranni had to time the killings right on her own and in coordination with the Black Knife Assassins, she didn't need some willing ally. The Death Blight also wasn't some necessary part of any plan, Ranni only wanted to destroy her body but preserve and transplant her soul.

>>714241064
Rahdan challenges the stars when he is in his youth shortly after mastering gravitational magic. Well before the shattering.
Starscourge greatsword:
>Radahn earned considerable renown as the Starscourge in his youth
The starscourge talisman item description speaks about the specific event of him stopping the stars, implying that event is why he holds the Starscourge title.

Almost a good thread.

Should have had Margit, not Morgott. Margit is not only tougher, but also has a more fair moveset. Morgott has a ridiculously overtuned and unfun moveset, but most people can trade hits by that point in the game.

>>714243743
The Shattering happens well before the events of the game, so that can still be within Radahn's youth. Being the Starscourge marks Radahn's mastery of gravity magic, but wasn't necessarily right after he began studying it. The Farum Azula meteorite incident had to be during the Shattering if the factions are too devastated by the war and the Elden Ring being shattered to remove any of the debris from the highway, Radahn's seal on the stars appears to still be holding fast too, so it's not crumbling.

>>714243390
Its all logical jumps on how the erdtree works man I'm not going to try and prove it like a scientist on a forum about a fantasy setting. The root resin is the remains of people.
If you don't get the root resin bit on your own I dunno. I don't need the root resin telling me it is people in the linetext, I get what it is by context.
All of this makes sense in context when you play. It dawns on you playing and it clicks. You see the flowers in the game showing up in patterns like sunflowers facing the erdtree and lore dancing around sunflowers representing falling heroes, flower patches showing up in those colors mentioned earlier in all sorts of places overflowing with elements of those colors, yada yada yada to see there is a massive longscale cycle of life and death and the things that died becoming these flowers on some small scale that I knew the big alien tree that was forcing people to be brought to its roots so it can absorb them like you see in the boss rooms is doing something in that cycle. Everything is aiding in a cycle to feed death into a tree and no one in the setting gets that it is doing that to feed itself because it has a made up warped religion about protecting and revering it exists. It wasn't like this in cycles of life that existed before the erdtree and you could see the real way life worked all around you if you looked.
I dunno man, I thought this was something everyone saw as they played the game. Nightreign shows the phenomena happening in real time as you play over and over and over if you couldn't conceptualize it in Elden Ring by looking around you or reading the lore about that world around you.

>>714243928
Morgott has a ridiculously well tuned and superfun moveset, if you took the time to learn it. This is why he's technically the best boss Fromsoft has ever made.
>>714233145

It was surpassed in 2010.
>no, not alone

The fight v Greg in Dragon's Dogma is pretty cool

>>714243630
This reeks of Vaati levels of lore depth. It's funny watching retards like you shit the bed when you have to look at things beyond face value and require an ounce of critical thinking.

>>714235889
self hatred

>>714244087
The Root Resin is the Erdtree's resin, as in something equivalent to its blood. The resin isn't made out of people, especially since that type of resin is used for grease buffs instead of consumed. What do you mean by "lore dancing around sunflowers representing fallen heroes"? The people killed in places also probably aren't becoming the flowers, the flowers just grow on those sites and are affected by magical elements in the area (Ex: Glintstone).

The Erdtree certainly hasn't lacked food with all the wars in the Lands Between, nor suffered from starvation once the Shattering reached a stalemate. Also, in the other systems, the Regal Ancestor Spirit literally kills animals' souls to heal its zombie fungus form, the Scarlet Rot tries to conquer entire ecosystems and practically terraform the planet, etc. If Nightreign depicts anything other than some kind of self-retconning time travel, the Night seems to be almost like a mystical disease that the Nightfarers are used to fend off, whether the Nightfarers are in a Hewg or Enia-like scenario or if they're outright spirits.

>>714244590
You're pulling things from thin air and ignoring blatant contradictions from the game's story, dialogue, and text. Even just one unnamed demi-god also being Marika's child ruins your "Marika only has sets of two children" idea. Furthermore, why would her kids be soul fragments of her? Only Radagon is said or implied to be a fragment of Marika, and he's not one of her children to boot.

Elden Ring peaked at this exact moment and I’m really sad the DLC retroactively tarnished (heh) it.

>>714244182
>Morgott has a ridiculously well tuned and superfun moveset, if you took the time to learn it. This is why he's technically the best boss Fromsoft has ever made.

I don't think Morgott is fun. Boring, visually busy attacks, lack of obvious openings, either mid-combo or after combo.
A boss like Godrey is much better, with all the mid-combo openings available with good strafing and jumping. Much easier to read too, with his giant axe vs. Morgott's boring curved sword.
Morgott is just a super weak boss in Elden Ring or DLC. So many better bosses -- Godfrey, Mohg, Malenia, Maliketh, Consort Radahn, Bayle, Messmer, etc. Even Godrick is better.

>>714246568
Morgott is in that tier with the rest of those guys.

>>714237978
can you shut the fuck up with the singular they for Miquella shit

>>714245140
The DLC cheapened a LOT of the base game's story. One of the worst Formsoft has ever made in this specific area.

>>714241373
>Does that mean everyone in the game is immortal? Or just the demigods?

From what I understand people keep removing pieces of it, doctoring it, putting it back in, etc. The Great Rune of Death, specifically, holds the power to kill God and Demigods. Capitalized G.
We, the player, need The Rune of Death so we can defeat the Last Boss. The Great Rune of Death gives power and permanence to Death; Ranni chipped off a small piece of it to make her black knives and it was only able to kill either a god's body or soul, but not both.

>>714241635
>The fact that the rune seems to naturally clash with the appearance of the Elden Ring

Can't find a good pic, but the Great Runes are all supposed to overlap over one another like a spirograph, but the thing has been pecked at, chipped away, and altered so many times (both before the shattering, after, and when we put it back together) that it's all fucked up and chunky. The Elden Ring logo IS what remains of The Elden Ring, sans all the Great Runes everyone fucked off with.

The crosshatching faintly in the back of the Elden Ring I believe is the Crucible; just a bog simple, sturdy, mesh.