>>714253084 (OP)
First of all: WRPGs are just console-friendly CRPGs. The issue is with pretty much all fantasy, even anime, though it does tend to lean into catgirls over dwarves.
Secondly: mindless copying of tropes and conventions with no tangible narrative reason. Different races might as well be foreigner humans, and not massively different species as it was with Tolkien's work.
At last: stupid reddit meme with the wrong movie screenshots, the whole point of the scene was that the glasses lead to blurry perception

>>714253084 (OP)
Nothing.

>>714253084 (OP)
i wish i could get some of these traditional fantasy games that i'm supposed to be sick of. every time one releases, if it has the original races at all, they're subverted californian versions like dwarves that use magic or elves that are into technology.

>>714253084 (OP)
a good chunk of jrps are like that too

>>714253084 (OP)
Planescape was the only real fantasy.

>>714253084 (OP)
They've always had shit aesthetics and meandering pacing that focuses on muh freedumb, which amounts to wandering around aimlessly and doing random bullshit with no fucking focus or urgency.

Oh but you're asking why they always use the same Tolkien/Gygax inspired template. That's because people like that flavor of medieval fantasy setting.

>>714253084 (OP)
Actually that's fine compared to RPGs trying way too hard to be original.

>>714253926
>mindless copying of tropes and conventions with no tangible narrative reason
Where are those? I'd fucking love a braindead Kotor or Jade Empire clone, there hasn't been one in two cock gobbling decades. Looking through upcoming crpgs and "wrpgs" is fucking depressing.

>>714254520
>That's because people like that flavor of medieval fantasy setting.
This. Despite how much people posture about wanting unique fantasy settings, when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is, they never show up.
Take the Second Apocalypse / Prince of Nothing series. It's a super unique setting based more on the Middle East than Europe. And guess what? It flopped.
Or Arcanum, which also flopped because the setting was too alien.
No matter how much people may bitch about Tolkien and DnD fantasy, at the end of the day, it's the only kind of fantasy they're actually willing to buy

>>714254860
>Looking through upcoming crpgs and "wrpgs" is fucking depressing.
How about this one?
Nazralath: The Fallen World is a story-driven, third-person, dark fantasy action-adventure game with RPG elements; focusing on a compelling narrative and exploration through a rich, strong sense of atmosphere and world.
Inspired by titles such as Planescape: Torment and Dark Souls, as well as the twisted works of Zdzisław Beksiński and H.P. Lovecraft, Nazralath is a deep delve into the occult realms of dark fantasy.
You are Orphiel, a fallen knight hailing from a seemingly distant land, your past is but a faint memory, hinted only through the faded adornments on your dented armor. You awaken in a cold, decrepit tomb in the bowels of a Dirphal temple, with wounds that would have slain you five times over. Haunting dreams follow your thoughts, and your fragmented memory proves merciful enough for you to recollect your name, if little else.
Delve into a surreal world where all sense of normalcy is fleeting. Exploration and dialogue are key aspects of Nazralath. The choices you make and the relationships you forge will irreversibly shape your journey throughout this tattered, broken world.
https://youtu.be/6v0AiLHS4c8

>>714254880
>Take the Second Apocalypse / Prince of Nothing series
Mang you and other /lit/ dickbags can go fuck yourselves. It flopped because nobody wants to read meticulously detailed gay rape, and nobody likes kekoldry either (shocker, I know).

>>714254991
>literally warcraft demons word for word
>human
>human
>human

>>714254860
Mindless copying of "fantasy" tropes. Not SW nor wushu tropes.

>>714254991
I guess a wall of dialogue options is a good sign. I'm maybe waiting for this one:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2734270/Sector_Unknown/
Cautiously, it looks like shit too.

>>714255060
>Mang you and other /lit/ dickbags can go fuck yourselves. It flopped because nobody wants to read meticulously detailed gay rape, and nobody likes kekoldry either (shocker, I know).
Why is it fine when GRR Martin does the exact same thing, then?

>>714253084 (OP)
I feel like the real issue is that they try to get too far away from tropes. I just want regular elves and dwarves and shit instead of being called shit like Elvar and Duggins or whatever shit Bethesda calls them.

>>714255060
Well case in point Skyrim being more popular than every other wrpg, because its currently the closest to a tolkien world in its absolute genericness compared to a more unique rpg like morrowind.

>>714255306
Fuck him too
>why is it fine
Because it's normie popular. Like Rothfuss, he can eat a dick as well. English language fantasy is generally too subversive for it's own good.

>>714255472
Skyrim is popular because it's the baby food of RPGs for retards and kids.

>>714255532
The same could be said why the general masses only want general fantasy slop.

>>714255503
which books do you like?

Nothing wrong with tropes in RPGs. Give me that stuff over whatever cringe JRPGs have anyday of the week.

>i'm a teenage boy and I need to kill.... God....

What the fuck is the neep obsession with high school themes and teenage protags anyway. How the fuck am I meant to see a hero in some smarmy brat that I 100% woulda absolutely ROLLED in high school (seriously, in high school I never lost a fight. Any kid saying the wrong shit to me would get their jaw broken)

>>714255472
>because its currently the closest to a tolkien world in its absolute genericness compared to a more unique rpg like morrowind.
false. Skyrim is not a generic fantasy setting.

>>714255574
Utter wish fulfillment slop, ideally, unfortunately there is no database that would tag fantasy/sci-fi novels, so the end result is I don't read fiction at all anymore.

>>714255532
it's better than your favorite RPG cope.

>>714255662
Compared to Dragon Age and Pillars of Eternity yes it is.

>>714253084 (OP)
furry dog(fucker)whistle

>>714255732
>Compared to Dragon Age
Is this bait? Are you fucking high? Dragon Age is as a fucking generic as they fucking come, and its one of the most blatant examples of a fantasy series inspired by LOTR and A Game of Thrones.
I question if you've even played Dragon Age...

>>714256310
>LOTR and A Game of Thrones
Please don't... conflate these. DA is hecking dark fantasy though. DA2 especially.

Tolkien diminutive fantasy replacing pulp adventure has been a disaster for nerd creativity. Discuss.

>>714253084 (OP)
The problem with WRPGs is Baldur's Gate 2. After Baldur's Gate 2, everyone wanted fucking WRPGs that have romances in them. Now instead of having some good game that has low-int responses or reactivity like Fallout 1, 2 and Arcanum, where NPCs react to your race, your gender, your clothes/armor, and even your reputation we have muh romance.

>>714253926
>spoiler
this
they should use the "they live" glasses instead

>>714256419
>pulp
I read all of Lensman recently. It's fun, hecking eugenics ftw.

>>714255685
Unironically read Mushoku Tensei. Its fantasy imo. It filers a lot of people because the main character is morally ambiguous and he doesn't always make the morally correct decisions. But that's part of what makes the series so great. Because the protagonist's flaws help him feel more real and less like a blank slate self insert.
The setting, the lore, the worldbuilding, and the characters are all top notch. And if you can go into the plot blind, then it actually has some batshit insane plot twists that will blow your mind because of how well foreshadowed they are.

>>714254073
they can't even make it ethnically homogenuous, which is the basics of the basics

>>714256419
you're broadly correct, but personally I don't think elves and orcs and shit is impossible in Conan-style pulp fantasy.
The focus on "worldbuilding" and "lore" in favor of action and characters is a travesty though. Just because Tolkien wrote a fucking history book doesn't mean everyone else has to

>>714256528
Did you read the LN or the manga (I'm assuming there is a manga)?
Have some slop:
https://www.scribblehub.com/series/1233229/wife-after-death-a-cosmic-horror-romance/
It's what you think it is.

>>714256410
>Please don't... conflate these. DA is hecking dark fantasy though
I'm not conflating. I'm absolutely correct.
From LOTR, Dragon Age takes inspiration for its Dwarves and Elves.
From A Song of Ice and Fire, Dragon Age takes inspiration from the politics (Howe and Loghain's shenanigans), the Others / the undead (Archdemon and Darkspawn), and the Night Watch (Grey Wardens)

>>714256419
As usual it's not the original author fault. LOTR fantasy is good, it's retards turning it into a formula, and retards adopting the formula that are to be blamed. And yes, the same shit is valid for anti-tolkien faggots like Martin. You are just as slave to the Tolkien formula as the others . You are jsut using the formula to do the opposite for the sake of doing the opposite.
All creative genre died with pulp, and formula-tards killed it

>>714256708
>Did you read the LN or the manga (I'm assuming there is a manga)?
Neither. I read a fan translation of the Web Novels back in 2016.
I've never read the manga, but I heard its ass because it cuts out a lot of the plot and character interactions that make the series special.
The Light Novels are pretty good from what I hear though. They have a better translation than the Web Novels (some of it was almost machine translation tier back then). The author also apparently added a few new scenes to further expand on the lore.
>https://www.scribblehub.com/series/1233229/wife-after-death-a-cosmic-horror-romance/
I'll check it out.

>>714253084 (OP)
The success of tolkienism has been a disaster for the western fantasy. Real myths and legends being watered down for average bumpkin to fantasize after a day at the cubicle.

>>714256654
It's more that writers in the pre-Tolkien (though more accurately D&D) world were more comfortable creating their own things, and now it's seemingly taken as an absolute given that works of imaginative fantasy are simply *supposed* to have Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs.
It even works it's way into sci-fi. A lot of sci-fi will end up having different races who essentially amount to space Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs.

Man, just start somewhere else. Make an alien who is a sing-song Irishman who is always drunk. Show me a fantasy race of talking Deer.

>>714254041
dungeon crats

>play jrpgslop
>human, elf, dwarf, some quirky fluffy chungus, some vile engel thing because bugs hate god, mean nigga, goblin, and of course, orc
>4cuck : "yooooooo my jrpgslop is superior

>>714256989
Try this, it was popular at some point:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1440148.Little_Fuzzy

>>714254520
>cropping the rest of the image
he loved the game though, why lie

>All creative genre died with pulp, and formula-tards killed it
Meme. Every story you can fathom was already told over a thousand years ago by earlier writers in humanity.
Farm boys rising up to become king because they're secretly royalty? King Arthur
Teenager using martial arts and his mastery of weapons to fight armies solo like in an anime? Cu Chulainn
The tragic hero betrayed by his comrades, leading to his death? Sigurd and Siegfried.
The demigod destined for greatness? Hercules
The scorned woman forced into becoming a monster? Medea and Medusa.
Star crossed lovers? Romeo and Juliet
The hero turned monster? Macbeth
The coward / the pampered noble forced to step into the role of a hero? Hamlet
An ensemble of great heroes? Jason and the Argonauts
The apocalypse? Revelations and Ragnarok
Incestual politics and infighting? Set and Horus's war.
A hero going on a great adventure to slay an ancient evil? Perseus

Literally EVERY single story you can think of has been already covered. What determines if a story is good or not, isn't that it breaks new ground, or tries (and fails) to create some new trope. What matters is that the story is ENJOYABLE. That's it.

>>714256989
Sci fi is deder that dead. All it's left is some cosmetic element acting as a background for grey chraracter drama in space

>>714256989
>Make an alien who is a sing-song Irishman who is always drunk. Show me a fantasy race of talking Deer
I think focusing on stuff like fictional races misses the point. What's the difference if the main cast are human or pointed ear human or talking deer? Slapping shit like that onto a story hardly makes it fantastical. It seems a lot of modern authors fall into this weird trap of trying to make a fantasy world first by adding magic and different races, and only writing the actual story afterwards, without thinking about how does it benefit from being set in that world they had created.

>>714257173
>>4cuck : "yooooooo my jrpgslop is superior
To be superior, the alternative just needs to be worse. It's not always about objective quality.
Blame what western entertainment has become, faggot

>>714257423
>beaneretard can't even greentext properly

Generic medieval fantasy setting is peak comfy. That's why I never got the complaints about Oblivion. Settings wise, I'd much rather have castles and forests than brown mushroom swamp slop like Morrowind.

>>714257408
I think exploring new worlds is the appeal of a lot of this stuff. But the worlds become significantly less new feeling, the more cookie cutter they are.
You want people to feel how they felt the first time they discovered Tolkien, not how they felt after reading it ten times.

>>714257232
>reductionist meme answer
>dode stop discussing anything fiction, it's all just man-spear-deer

>>714257467
>ad hominem because the argument in insurmountable
pick the easy route next time and simply admit defeat, inbred

>>714257232
Those are at least all different stories, with different flavours and textures about them.
I don't even mind things being formulaic. I just don't want it to be the same formula every time.

>play WRPG
>acquire shit stat weapon but since it looks good or has nice flavour, it becomes your main weapon.

>>714257620
sure pedro kun

>>714257561
>>714257634
You're both missing the point. My point is that every type of story you can think of has already been written. And that's not a bad thing, because what matters in a story isn't how unique it is, it's the execution.
You could take the most generic tropes, the most generic setting, and the most generic characters and craft an absolute masterpiece if your prose, themes, character development, and pacing were all top notch.
A fantasy author doesn't need to create some alien setting distinct from Tolkein for his story to be good. He simply needs to write a GOOD story that the audience enjoys.

>>714257753
>admitting defeat without saying it
QED

>>714257634
I'd be down for an RPG that was just straight up Indiana Jones or Allan Quarterman.
Why not? It's a tried and true formula, but it doesn't get done a lot. You just need a cast of characters consisting as a rugged hard as nails dude, a pretty woman, some kind of older professor, maybe a kid sidekick or a dog or something. Some kind of mythical treasure, and a lost world to explore. Maybe there's dinosaurs there.
It's not hard to conceptualize this stuff, and yet we're trapped in "RPGs are about medieval dudes with swords, Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs" world, for no real reason at all.

>>714257232
are pulps even really considered formulaic? maybe in the context of a single long-running episodic adventure, but i don't think there is a throughline among PULP in general

>>714257809
I'm sick of flipping Dwarves and Elves though.

A while ago some anon posted about this really cool sounding World War 1 era tabletop RPG, except filled with demons and angels and shit. It was grimdark but seemed neat. Anyone remember the name of it or what became of it?

>>714257809
>My point is that every type of story you can think of has already been written
That's not a useful or interesting argument and neither is very smart
>Dude did you knwo that SW is just Flash Gordon?


>A fantasy author doesn't need to create some alien setting distinct from Tolkein for his story to be good. He simply needs to write a GOOD story that the audience enjoys.
Yes, but chances are that what you wrote will put me to sleep even before giving it chance

>>714257961
>are pulps even really considered formulaic?
detective pulp is literally the same plot every story. If the hardboiled detective isn't getting knocked out and taken to the villain at around the third act I don't know if it's proper pulp.
The point is how well written and exciting the story is despite the formula.

>>714256528
I read it 10 years ago, Kill yourself

>>714258091
yeah, mystery in general has been run into the ground as the default pasttime for housewives before daytime tv
it's just that the first thing that comes to mind is weird tales and jack vance, but maybe it's unwise to bring up such titans as the first thing

>>714258026
>That's not a useful or interesting argument and neither is very smart
I never said it was. I'm simply rejecting the notion in this thread that "generic" fantasy tropes are bad.
>>714258008
>I'm sick of flipping Dwarves and Elves though.
Then read something without it? There are plenty of Fantasy series with no Dwarves or Elves.

For me, it's A Wizard of Earthsea. I had a very old version of the book with a creepy front cover showing what I assume was the shadow with creepy, round pure black eyes drawn in thick pencil lines. Always thought it looked very mystical and kinda scary.

>>714258260
>I read it 10 years ago
Based. Me too. It was kino, wasn't it?
>Kill yourself
Nah

>>714258373
We're talking about WRPGS. And yeah, a lot of them are just Elves and Dwarves, yet again.

Copycats copying copycats

lol spicfaggots are always easy target thanks to their shitty eslness

>>714258414
It's dogshit even for a lightnovel

>>714253084 (OP)
Nothing. JRPGs are shit.

>>714257941
>but it doesn't get done a lot
faggots in charge spent 20 years or so trying to get away from what works, and now we are left in a state where even what we instinctively consider an old stereotype that you supposedly see all the times never happened during your life. just subversion, deconstructions and so on

>>714258474
>We're talking about WRPGS. And yeah, a lot of them are just Elves and Dwarves, yet again.
So? Just play the WRPGs that don't copy Tolkein.
Expedition: Vikings
Expedition: Conquistadors
Expedition: Rome
Wasteland 2 and 3
Rogue Trader
Colony Ship
Age of Decadence
Tyranny
Atom RPG
Shadowrun Returns (Shadowrun has fantasy races but it's cyberpunk and very clearly trying to do its own thing)
Shadowrun Hong Kong
Shadowrun Dragonfall

Should I keep going? There are plenty of RPGs that aren't tolkein clones. And there's more to come. Owlcat's upcoming Warhammer and Encased games immediately come to mind.

>>714258373
>"generic" fantasy tropes are bad.
they aren't bad if they happen, sticking to a formula is bad. Either way it's trite and overused, especially if there is too much media all the time and it all stick to that fomula

>>714258657
>just subversion, deconstructions and so on
There is no point in history where le subversion wasn't a thing, I'm afraid. Earliest I know of is Ship of Ishtar. Video games were fun for a long time though, and then they decided to stop. Same with movies and tv shows.

>>714258803
Can Owlcat not make IPshit once in their lifetime?

>>714258805
>sticking to a formula is bad.
Nope.
>Either way it's trite and overused,
Every story is "trite and overused", anon. There isn't a single story to be told, that hasn't already been told

>>714258017
Trench Crusade?

>>714253084 (OP)
>humans, elves, dwarves, goblins, and orcs
based

>>714258803
>Shadowrun
https://oceanofpdf.com/category/authors/earliestbird/
I am only marginally ashamed of recommendation this product of plebbit.

>>714258803
Those are dinky games made by nobodies, and I don't even want to play most of them. Warhammer has stock fantasy races in space. Shadowrun has stock fantasy races in cyberpunk.
Plus I'm super bored of the post-apocalypse too.

>>714258891
Cope
your non argument was already dismissed

>>714259067
this
even if I liked shadowrun

>>714253084 (OP)
>nooo this isn't quirky chungus enough for me!

>>714258803
I should maybe play Colony Ship. I'm postponing it because I know first playthrough will be a huge pain. I fucking love guessing where the dev wants me to go first or else I'll get reamed, it's my favorite thing.

>>714259067
>Those are dinky games made by nobodies
Why does it matter if the game is made by nobodies? Are you playing games to have fun, or are you playing games simply because they're popular?
>Warhammer has stock fantasy races in space. Shadowrun has stock fantasy races in cyberpunk.
I already addressed this earlier in the thread. There is literally nothing wrong with using a "generic" trope, because EVERY modern story has "generic" tropes
>>714259103
Done arguing with you, consider this your last (you) from me, because you're a jackass that won't listen to reason.

>>714253084 (OP)
It boils down to "use mods to have fun", not a fan 2bh...

>>714256528
this shit has the most insufferable female characters, they almost feel real

>>714254991
soulslop trannyshit coded garbage

>2025
>still no rpgs set in or inspired by the Thirty Years War
>still no rpgs set in the early modern era
Such a kino era and yet no one wants to make a game set in this time period. You'd think that Knights + Guns + Mercenary Corps + Religious + dozens of warring nations + wars with casualties totaling the millions would be a massive hook for people.

>>714259316
I can't even make this judgement because they haven't shown shit.

for me it's icewind dale

>>714253084 (OP)
>Errrrrrm, zamnichudigga, aren't you tired of those OLD fantasy races made by a WHITE man? Wouldn't you rather our quirk chungus setting made by diverse BIPOCS?
Nah, I'm fine with traditional fantasy tbqh

>>714259297
>this shit has the most insufferable female characters, they almost feel real
They were all pretty reasonable to me. The only one that really pissed me off was Eris in the Redundancy chapters, because blamed and punished her teenaged son for being groomed by his pedophile Aunt, because Eris considered her son a "man" who should be hyper competent like Rudeus was at that age.

>>714259414
whenever the warhammer fantasy rpg gets here...

>>714253084 (OP)
At some point the shitters that love to pish things onto others noticed that they could tell their side through WRPGs.
Unfortunatly they are all hacks and wouldn't even be good enough for a book.

>>714257673
this except for everything except WRPGs, Executioner swords are fucking amazing in Vermintide and Dark Souls 3

>>714259256
>There is literally nothing wrong with using a "generic" trope, because EVERY modern story has "generic" tropes
Yes, but use different generic tropes.
Find a new genre to mine for your RPGs. Do pirates. When was the last time anyone did pirates? Do some 70's Doctor Who shit, where creatures emerge on modern day earth, and a squad of military guys and a few civilians are pulled into it.

>>714259663
>Do pirates.
Pillars of Eternity II. And guess what? It flopped.

>>714259521
>Eris
I was talking mostly about her, the only reason I stopped reading the LN is because she reappeared. I expected her to be gone forever from the plot.

So what I'm reading is: the urban fantasy story I'm writing with soviet werewolves, nazi goblins, voodoo gang-bangers, and Wuxia secret police will be well recieved?

>>714259718
Cointerpoint: that game was also ass

>>714259718
Pirates are just a faction in Deadfire and not a theme, and the game is fucking disgusting in general. T(y)ranny was fine, last good game Obsidian made.

>>714259718
7 years ago. and not because it was pirates. that said, pirates are gay. games should be about sailing ships but without pirate faggotry

>>714259725
>the only reason I stopped reading the LN is because she reappeared.
Damn. IMO, you should keep reading. Eris does become a major character going forward, but the story is really good. Moreover, she's not gonna bring any more drama to the story, unless you count the optional post-story side chapters called Redundancy where she's a total bitch in the Ars arc.
>I expected her to be gone forever from the plot.
How? The story was constantly referencing her in interludes where she trained in the Sword god's school. I don't see how you could imagine her not returning.

>>714255651
It's written for high school boys but adult men still enjoy it because adult men write it.

>>714259785
>So what I'm reading is: the urban fantasy story I'm writing with soviet werewolves, nazi goblins, voodoo gang-bangers, and Wuxia secret police will be well recieved?
lolno. You'll go bankrupt. A few contrarians on /v/ will call you based though, so I guess it'll be worth it.

>>714259848
The pirate genre is fun because it tends to deal with buried treasure and voodoo curses and things. It can swerve into more outright horror or fantasy.

>>714258921
Not it but thanks for the suggestion, anon. It was less Warhammer-y. It's a shame I didn't save the art and info that was posted.

>>714253084 (OP)
Angloids and their derivatives can't do fantasy
They ripped off Dark folklore from Continental Europe and turned it gay and never invented anything again

>>714259978
It's not about the money, it's about sending a message
The message is: look at these characters I came up with when I was 14 going on wacky adventures

>>714260246
Based

>>714260073
it's always low brow and childish

>>714260327
What's wrong with that?

>>714260109
sorry can't help you
best bet is to head to /vg/ and ask in the indie generals, someone is bound to know there if you give enough information

>>714260182
This is the most accurate dissection through exhibit of why WRPGs fantasy sucks

>>714259882
>How?
The story was considerable more enjoyable without her existence.
Her existence annoys me and I will drop it again if I start reading, the world building was great tho.

>>714260428
At least it has some actual story and gameplay

>>714253926
>Different races might as well be foreigner humans, and not massively different species as it was with Tolkien's work.
Lol?????
Humans with pointy ears and gay, good job Tolkien

>>714260349
no substance

>>714260508
Mald, FromGODS won

Not everything has to be original.
But OP is too stupid to realize this and is therefore a nigger.

>>714260431
>How?
The shadow war between Hitogami and Orsted is really cool from a conceptual point in my opinion. Hitogami can see the future of everyone not under Orsted's mark, and Orsted is an immortal time traveler with foreknowledge of every important person's fate. Both parties are using the entire world as their chess piece, and more importantly, both parties know this will be the deciding timeline that decides the winner of their war because Rudeus ONLY exists in this timeline. Rudeus + his descendants open a pathway for Orsted to win. Because of this Hitogami wants to kill Rudeus' family.
So the entire story going forward is Rudeus traveling the world with his comrades, laying down the foundation for the coming war that his descendants will fight alongside Orsted.
This means preventing the births of key players, making sure certain people stay rulers, preventing or causing the fall of kingdoms, making sure certain people pair up so their descdanet will be born, building mercenary corps etc. It's a really cool concept imo, especially since it's a constant push and pull between two godlike beings, with Rudeus forcefully stuck in the middle if he wants to save his family

>>714260703
fromdrones, you have been sold the same game for 15 years now
May Zanzibart forgive you

>Let's copy D&D for 99999th time

Western fantasy used to be good in the 70's/80's when you had kitchen sinks like gonzo fantasy or the more moderate but still enjoyable dark fantasy of a lot of YA literature where writers didn't feel obligated to suck Tolkien's cock.
Ironically, even 1E D&D and AD&D didn't suck too much cock back in the days because while there certain was a lot of Tolkien worship the brand was still rooted in a lot of classical nerd fantasy, stuff like Runequest or Gamma World were still better though.
Nowadays it sucks because D&D got too big for its own good, Tolkien worship got even worse thanks to the movies and the industry in general is a cesspool where anybody who doesn't conform to the lowest common denominator isn't going to make it because all that matters is milking normalfags, and you can't do that by being original or trying new things, you must have your humans/green humans/short humans/snobby humans/devil humans/fursuit humans/scaly humans for some reason.
Granted, it's not ALL like that and some of that is actually not that bad either, but it does get tiresome, and to be fair the east isn't really that better either, for every Emerald Beyond there's 5 Isekai Final Panty Quests.

>>714261085
>dumb kid born in 2000
>"bro it used to be so good in the 80s!"
fuck off zoomer

>>714261164
I was born in 1988 but whatever you say, retard

>>714261354
So you've never experienced the 80s, good to know

>>714260182
>They ripped off Dark folklore from Continental Europe
Europe was literally still embroiled in a war when the US and somewhat of the UK were shitting out pulp fantasy and sci-fi books so much you can make libraries out of what comes out in a year. You can say about that about the US now, but not the last century where they were literally cultural powerhouses.

Okay, nigger. Let's see you create six BRAND NEW races. That don't fall under any of the umbrellas
>human
>elf
>orc
>gnome
>beast
>spirit

>>714261423
What's a fake sixty years old like you doing in here?

>>714261085
>Western fantasy used to be good in the 70's/80's
Western Fantasy is still kino. The 2000s gave us a lot of good shit: Mistborn, Stormlight Archives, Powder Mage, First Law Trilogy, Kingkiller Chronicles, Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, Dunk and Egg, The Second Apocalypse, Dresden Files, The Tawny Man trilogy, The Night Angel trilogy, Kushiel's Legacy, The New Jedi Order, The Magicians series, Red Rising Trilogy, and more than half of the A Song of Ice and Fire series.
>inb4 you call every title I listed trash, even though you haven't even read half of it.

I want to include more conernetstone monster girls in my setting (lamias, harpies, strongfat furry minotaur bitches) but I can figure out how to make them fit in to the wider world. Where would they live? How would their existence effect a cold war that has continued into the 90s?

>>714261510
Since you're just gonna disqualify anything that even remotely looks humanoid, I'll go with sentient living weapons that are controlled by a network of germs.

>>714261510
The did it in mass effect and it was fairly popular, not sure why OP doesn't know about it.

>>714261779
Dumb, horny teenager. Fuck off

>>714260508
tell me about oblivion's s tory

>>714261510
Check Star Control

>>714261510
not every fantasy needs fictional races
in fact I'd go as far as to say that most don't need them at all, but keep trying to make them up just because that's the standard

>>714262004
So just a Shoggoth? Yawn

>>714262030
Monstergirls are cool. Sorry I don't make the rules, transister.

>>714254991
>when you try too hard to be different for the sake of being different

>>714262169
>mythos niggers when they intentionally don't describe all their monsters and then claim that everything created afterwards was actually that monster all along.

>>714261484
The entire genre of pulp fantasy is derivative of German, Italian and French literature. Angloids didn't even invent fantasy pulp magazines unlike what they believe

>>714254041
>AoD but without all the stuff that makes it good
Dungeon Rats filtered me. I don't have a problem with the combat in AoD but I also don't want to play a ball crushing combat gauntlet either.

>>714261510
gnomes beasts and spirits sound better than 4 different humans, 5 different elfs and 3 different orcs (all 12 are palette swapped variations of humans)

The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion is the best video game I've played ever. Best story, engaging combat and great quests. I live to play Oblivion.

>>714261779
>>714262030
>>714262260
So just Teraurge?

>>714262169
Your first mistake is thinking I'm not familiar on Lovecraftian bestiary. Shogoths are amorphous amoebas, akin to that of a slime, they're nothing to what I've described which is a colony of germs collectively moving as one material a la man-o-war.

>>714256528
>recommends the worst wish fulfilment slop to the anon (rightfully) complaining about wish fulfilment slop
lol
lmao

>>714262441
Not quite because it still takes place on earth.

>>714262443
Ok, then that's even older Sarvants from the blue peril circa 1910

>>714262260
Glad you never tried to deny that you were underage. Painfully obvious btw

>>714261510
>no humans or beast
so thats literally everything? anything with two legs would be humanoid, anything with four legs or fur/scales would be beast-like

>>714262280
Americans did. What you posted is a technical first. Americans are the definitive first, being the most influential and important that precipitated the genre. Your anti-American bias is making you reach at claims that is so plainly obvious there is no room for debate.

>>714261085
The Tolkien wank is extra strange because modern nerdfaggots despise everything about his work except the setting and world.

>>714260940
every game series which tries to drastically "change up the formula" fails spectacularly at doing so

>>714262536
>Sarvants
Those are fucking aliens.

>>714262280
>The entire genre of pulp fantasy is derivative of German, Italian and French literature
Don't forget Finnish Mythology. The Kalevala especially had a massive impact on Tolkien, so he drew a lot of inspiration for it while writing Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit

>>714262703
It's just as you said, they like the aesthetics he laid out. They just wanted it to be more gritty like Gygax wanted.

>>714262761
You forgot to preface your post with. "I don't know what I'm talking about"

>>714262453
Are you an idiot? He's ASKING for wish fulfillment stories, not shitting on them

>>714253084 (OP)
Copyright and trademark prevent normal iteration. We've gotten stuck on focusing on specific things because companies are incentivized to rehash IP and certain avenues have gotten cut off due to overly litigious trusts and holding companies.
IP law as a whole is a cancerous tumor that only benefits holding companies and law firms at the expense of creative and industrial drive.

>>714262860
But I am familiar.

>>714262701
>Americans did. What you posted is a technical first
Holy fucking cope
>>714262819
True

>>714262548
>I wish people would use fantasy races other than Tolkien
>NOOOO NOT LIKE THAT!
Mtfsister...

>>714262917
It incurs the opposite, it makes it so not ever Tom, Dick and Harry can just do what the comics industry does and just rip something off and call it something different. It at least pressures ingenuity from your inspirations.

>>714262819
>>714262948
Tolkien or the Kalavela or the the fucking Nibelungenlied is not pulp.

>>714262726
but the formula was garbage from the beginning and they insisted on not improving it to conceal that fact
At some point it becomes COD/FIFA where you just change the number

>>714262917
Do em proud and just copy and edit shit from pic rel. Most of their works are public domain anyway

>>714261510
golems who - being left to their own devices after their creators disappeared, having either died or left somewhere - have become a sapient race unto themselves
they ended up with a very individual culture since they do not require food nor do they have explicit family ties
for a new golem to be made, an existing golem will choose to make one to act as a servant to it for a set period of time, giving it a form and the magic necessary to come into being
afterwards it's just left to its own devices and they all end up just doing whatever sparks their personal interest
creating a golem - fully-fledged sapient ones or otherwise - for any other reason is considered a major cultural taboo
in the past some golems did so for personal gain to field armies for other races or form mercenary companies for profit and it led to obvious problems
all other construct magic in the world is extremely basic, not even close to the golems, meaning their creators were way ahead of the magic-technological curve but nobody knows who they were, including the golems

>>714261085
>>714261615
Kek, like clockwork. You disappeared like a rat after I countered your nonsense about there being no good fantasy series in the 2000s when compared to the 70s and 80s

>>714262980
Hush, adults are speaking

>>714262998
There is no true ingenuity in creation, all ideas are somehow derived from prior works coming together in new ways.
Presenting legal blockades just prevents rapid iteration, ensuring that progress is slow with frequent regressions, especially in a field like software where iteration and modding on existing frameworks can yield rapid progress in new directions.

>>714256989
>A lot of sci-fi will end up having different races who essentially amount to space Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs.
Note that it necessarily spread FROM fantasy, though. It's like the backbone of the "interspecies conflict" theme to have an enlightened race maintaining tense relations (ie Vulcans, then Bajorans) and an enemy warlike race (ie Klingons, then Cardassians).

>>714263381
Imaginative works do not function like software where they are physically applicable.

>>714263323
Twice you've not denied being mtf (its painfully obvious btw) so it's time to hush, the cisgendered people are speaking.

>>714263306
I'd recommend you to take your meds, but given how low your literacy is on top of your mental illness, you'd probably end up taking fertilizer tablets instead.
I don't want the burden of a retarded stranger's life, besides most of the stuff you list is shit, nobody who says Harry Potter or Dresden Files is good can be trusted on matters of taste.

>>714263083
>the formula was garbage from the beginning and they insisted on not improving
then your point is instead "I don't like it so it should change" rather than "doing the same thing over and over is bad"
i think many popular game series are boring and shitty (RE, zelda and MGS to name a few) but I recognize that they're simply not for me
rather than expecting them to make drastic, sweeping changes to suit my personal tastes, I just play other games since obviously people enjoy those games and what they bring to the table

>>714262029
I wouldn't call ripping off everything from Star Control (3, for some reason??) "brand new".

You wanna blame for everyone blaming Tolkien for being derived from over and over again but I dont' see ANYBODY citing Star Trek here being a template of almost every goddamn space sci-fi videogame.

>>714263615
Nigger kill yourself

>>714263554
NTA (you two are having a spat, you see) but I would really like to see you cite examples of "moderate but still enjoyable dark fantasy" in particular or just shit from the 80s in general that you liked.

>>714263535
>No retort
>Just the same screeching
Embarrassing

>>714263632
i fucking wish
the only template i can see you thinking they're adhering to is
>humans and aliens share a galaxy and interact with one another in a mostly civilized manner

>>714263726
Tanith Lee's stuff is pretty nice on average, see things like the Flat Earth books.

>>714263729
>N-no u
Concession accepted

>>714263901
Here, read this:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/40793-the-seventh-sword
It's rather elaborate. Dude very clearly read Zelazny and Piers Anthony. It's also technically not cuckoldry, for a change.

>>714254991
>generic demons (but with a different name)
>generic elves (but with a different name)
>humans
>actually interesting race (but still too humanoid)

There's no "original", nor "new". Just the endless rehash and remakes of old shit

>>714255651
This is the cringiest post in this thread

>>714261510
Nigga, you just want Teraurge.

>>714261779
Read on the animal kingdom and the various adaption the animals took to live in their habitats then design from there is how I usually do it for my shit.

>>714254880
>DnD fantasy
DnD works for me because I find outsiders to be extremely interesting, not the generic Prime Material races.
>Tolkien
No fantasy author ever wrote them as good as Tolkien did.

>>714263554
Like I said, you're a rat blinded by nostalgia.
We're done here. I'm not gonna waste time arguing with a fool.

>>714264201
Shannara is an alright and contemporary-ish (to Tolkien) clone.

>>714264265
I'll look into it.

>>714264179
A pretty solid piece of advice. And when you put it that way, I'm sure I could glean from the original animal's natural hierarchy a way to color and mold their interactions with human societies. Seems obvious in hindsight but most things are. Thanks!

>>714261510
Here anon, a fucking plant.

>>714264805
hot

Choose one, /v/.

>>714253084 (OP)
Whats the problem?

>>714265049
If I'm not going to get spousal abused, rage. Otherwise poison.

Anon brings up a good point. We need more monstrous player characters that are t simply these cookie cutter races.

I would be very suspicious of anyone playing a "dwarf" at all

Tainted Grail came out this year and it didn't have, elfs, orcs, dwarfs or ogres.
It's made in Poland, so it's a wrpg.
I'd say it's biggest problem is lack of budget, not lack of originality.

>>714265049
Simply going by design, Phaxsi.

>>714253084 (OP)
The only problem with the bottom picture is that they're ugly
Something being overdone is a fake complaint to cover up for poor individual performances in the genre

>>714265461
Choices is good. Fun races are fun. What's the problem. Why not let me play a birdman martial artist looking to reclaim his homeland from evil hawkmen

>>714253084 (OP)
they always had shit design.

>>714264805
It's kind of goofy if you think about it, any other wild animal would be as dangerous as triffid if not more in it's own setting.

>>714265496
I'm not playing it until ten more patches or so. And since you like polACKs so much:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1374930/Black_Geyser_Couriers_of_Darkness/
They kept postponing the DLCs release date, said fuck it and now it's total radio silence. "This year lol" was the latest message.

>>714265414
>>714265535
You're supposed to fight them.

>>714265562
Make cuckoos the villains, they are dicks.

>>714265719
Yeah, and I get to keep her after I win.

>>714265797
You're already a mega homo by not picking Time bro. It's over.

>>714265884
That's a child.

>>714265696
Wise choice, the game needs some polish. Hopefully they don't nerf fun builds.
Black Gayser is a goofy name, I'll remember it.

>>714265884
>Pick time
>Instantly aged into an old man
>Die
Nah

>>714265927
Something something out of 10.

>>714253084 (OP)
The people making them went wrong

>>714265745
>protects his hens and makes sure they stay in line and dont bully any of the members to death
>will lay his life on the line against superior threats like foxes, wolves and predatory birds
>looks like a handsome hero
Roosters are the main character

>>714265562
So what, do these guys have hands? If they've got wings, how do they build anything? If they've got hands that means they can't fly, so they're what? Humans with feathers? So why not just make them human? Presumably they ain't pecking worms out of the ground.

I felt like Bas-Lag has interesting races (centaur-,lobsters, mosquito peole), even if most of them boil down to "X crossed with a human".

Races that don't resemble human features simply don't make sense. They don't have hands to write, they don't have rich histories, they don't have societies, they cannot make things, and they cannot create weapons and armor. You might argue that such creatures could exist, but they would just be simple animals and therefore not worth writing about

>>714266597
>So why not just make them human?
Why write or create anything?

>>714266597
>Bas-Lag
>by China Tom Miéville
>British
Who the fuck names their son China. No wonder he became a commie.

>>714266636
>Tlan Imass were manlets all along
the books are now ruined for me

>>714266801
i used to pity these guys but the more i read the more i hate them except for some inviduals
Jaghut are based for enslaving them

>>714266636
Malazan felt like a conscious effort to subvert every race trope.
Orcs? Overly intellectual mages who collectively decided they're too high IQ for society and live alone scattered around jerking off in their towers to how high IQ they are. Mostly genocided by zombie neanderthals.

Black Elfs? The evil goddes they'd usually worship dumped them and now they're all pathologically depressed and go around helping people who get invaded by expansionist empires. Always one bad day away from suicide by enemy soldier.

Lizard people? Actually their society is more like bugs, and they didn't look like humans at any point, before they did genetic engineering. The human looking people they created were technology focused rather than barbarians.

Bug people? They monopolize the military industrial complex of the empire and live in a mountain like dwarfs. They make portable bombs that can take out a dragon if you get it to swallow it.

Regular Elfs, the opposite of wise, inter-dimensional comic relief villains.

>>714266636
That's why non-humanoids tend to be transcendental of the human experience. Centaurs are perhaps my favourite of semi-humanoid fantasy races especially because there's a wide range you can do with a half-man, half-quadruped.

>>714266676
Yeah yeah, we're all gonna die, why bother doing anything, amirite? I just feel, if you're going to half-bake something, why bother? Why waste time thinking about your half-assed bird civilization and why not focus on writing better human characters? FFS, Conan stories aren't populated with elves and dwarves and goblins (some monsters lurk in the dark, but that's it), and they're great and celebrated as one of the peaks of fantasy.

>>714258398
yeah, one of my favorite books. The Ungian themes are not exactly subtle, but it makes it even better cause it all works.

Everyone likes to complain about how formulaic modern fantasy is but can we talk about the complete lack of RPGs that take place in contemporary settings?
>But muh realistic progression
Simple just don't have tiered loot and leveling up should simply unlock new skills and not just increase health or damage.

>>714266597
You can make fun stuff with demi humans that is immediately, aesthetically consistent and recognizable as different than the baseline human experience.
It helps legibility.

The rooster race can be hierarchical, feudal with small dukes. Socially focused on single "male masters of the household" having large manors and vast lands under their control.

Low tech advancement, high social cohesion tribal people that will be under pressure from more organized and centrally controlled races.

Prideful, ruled by honor culture and martial legacy.

This stuff would be evident simply by watching them do their thing for 1 minute. And it would be easier to explain than to have another race of humans do the same thing.

Also they'd have wings and be able to glide with them, as well as hands that looked like a rooster's feet.

>>714267557
the tistes are not elf-like at all except for maybe the liosans. The pic is kind of wrong since they shouldn't have pointy ears

>>714267556
The more the Imass were written about and exposed the shittier they became. At the start they're this cool undead army ready to emerge out of the dust and wipe you out in an instant. By the end they're a bunch of onions cucks that, like the other anon said, deserve to be enslaved.

>>714267557
I always thought the K'Chain Che'Malle were fucking dumb. And yeah, much as I love *parts* of Malazan, Erikson definitely tried way to hard to subvert things and be edgy. But I guess that was the thing back then with Malazan and First Law.

>>714267917
>it would be easier to explain than to have another race of humans do the same thing.
WTF, of course it would NOT be easier than explaining the baseline human experience. And yeah, that rooster civ sounds fine but you could also just have a regular human system that's highly patriarchial, focused on agnatic primogeniture, that's "Prideful, ruled by honor culture and martial legacy" and it would, narratively, accomplish the same things you wrote without you having to worry about shoehorning this rooster civ into your story.

Anyhow, I know we're coming at this from different POVs, anon, so I don't want to argue this further. I will say that if EVERY race is an animal, like in Redwall (loved them books as a kid, FYI) then sure, this would be great. I'm just not convinced animal civs offer that much value when inserted alongside humans.

>>714268051
>K'Chain Che'Malle were fucking dumb
the concept of fantasy dinosaurs is inherently silly

>>714268051
yeah but high intelligent dinosaurs are fucking cool. One of my favorite races in the book

>>714267706
World building and aesthetics should exist in service of the cool shit you want to do, not the other way around

Ivalice FF games have non-standard races if you're into that.

>>714253084 (OP)
WRPGs are more accurately called Skyrim-likes even WRPGs that came before Skyrim.

There is no workable definition of an RPG that includes the ES series.

>>714268895
shit definition

>>714259163
>emotional insincere defensive overreaction

>>714267868
How about Contemporary Fantasy settings, like Vampire the Masquerade?
How about Fantasy Contemporary settings, like Disco Elysium?

>>714259256
>Done arguing with you, consider this your last (you) from me, because you're a jackass that won't listen to reason.
You are not the voice of reason, you ignorant apologist

>>714260554
Elves are completely different on both a cultural and spiritual level in Tolkien's work. And the films are not a good indicator of how they would look according to him, since that look takes inspiration from the Celtic revival instead of the medieval depiction of elves (which was what Tolkien took inspiration from).

>>714268464
Them being roosters is artistic shorthand for all those things is my point

>>714259517
>strwman-kun defending uncreativity and regurgitation of content

>>714260721
Not everything has to be trite shit we exhausted ages ago.
But anon above is too stupid to realize this and is therefore a double nigger.

>>714269358
>emotional insincere defensive overreaction

character designers can't think outside of bilateral symmetry because of their tiny, malnourished minds.

>>714261615
YA shit like HP and PJ even being there invalidates you opinion

>>714253084 (OP)
WRPGs want to be taken seriously, so they’re often quite boring.

>>714268986
That is the point. It is a shit way of saying only thing like TES are RPGs.

Action games are not RPGs. It isn't when W*sterners do it. It isn't when the Japanese do it.

>>714262030
Shut up gay.

>>714269634
go fuck a starfish weirdo

>>714269262
I get you. I just feel it's basic like when a children's cartoon goes, "We need a treacherous, filthy villain that physically engenders aversion. So let's make the bad guy a rat."

>>714262726
because the anti-formula is still the formula
and it also needs to be good beside beign different.
Why are you retard even arguing against more creativity and having more things to enjoy
Fucking 4fags contrarians

>>714269739
>W*sterners
gaylord

>>714264243
>nostalgia buzzword
Take the L and vanish already

>>714263632
>Star Trek
You mean star wars? everything sci fi has been space fantasy for ages

Everyone wants to jerk themselves off on how creative they are. How about you make a good story first, lmao.

>>714264110
But enough about AI

>>714264371
Just don't start from the first book, Sword of Shannara. It's an awful LOTR copycat. Had it been my first shannara book I wouldn't have never read the rest.
Luckily I started with the second group of books

>>714269785
>>714269796
Based aaaaand I'm thinkin based

I demand an All Tomorrows influenced fantasy

>>714265562
Design looks fun, but wha peculiarities has that set him apart from basic human?

>>714266636
You have to do the extra work to make theme make sense, as you say. It's pet peeve of me in sci fi.

>>714267557
>conscious effort to subvert every race trope.
I hate it thanks. Even worse than rehash trite shit

>>714269524
>NO U
Concession accepted

>>714253084 (OP)
Classic fantasy tropes just make it easier for peopel to get into the setting. People know right away how the world works and have some basic idea of the backstory if you stick with the classics. you don't have to spend a lot of time with explaining the setting or risk confusing the players.
Plus people like stuff they recognize.
That being said I do like some artist attempt to re-imagine classical fantasy races as something sighlty new while keeping the core identity in tact.
Pics related is supposed to be a dwarf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mvLxx36XTg

>>714269678
>WRPGs want to be taken seriously, so they’re often quite boring.
This too

>>714270295
Being different for the sake of being different is bad.
Being uncreative and formulaic is bad too

Stupid people copy mindlessly from a template.
Smart creative people know exactly how to copy and play with the template.
Geniuses create the template, they create a whole new category of "thing" and "image" that becomes a hyperobject, a hypersign from which many other things spring forth. Doesn't matter if it's a character, a type of location, a story beat. They create an archetype, something our minds couldn't have coniceved of before by themselves.

Obviously, such people are born once in a lifetime, if that. And if someone who's not a genius attempts to do the same, he just creates a mockery, something subversive, or something too weird for the sake of being weird, or something too alien for human beings to relate to. It's not unlike the Devil twisting God's creation in an impotent attempt to create himself, something Tolkien alluded to.
So, just hope for more smart creators, and fear those who present themselves as a genius, summoned to this barren earth to create a new archetype.

That said, there is one contemporary work that attempted something like that. It ultimately failed, but not because the seed of truth wasn't there, as it did give rise to a new hyperthing, a new culture. But you're going to like the answer.
It is _____Homestuck.