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Thread 714293105

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Anonymous No.714293105 >>714295071 >>714295207 >>714295501 >>714295709 >>714295797 >>714296320 >>714296575 >>714296964 >>714297249 >>714297341 >>714297395 >>714297536 >>714297796 >>714297984 >>714298006 >>714299365 >>714300218 >>714301219 >>714301989 >>714302246 >>714302554 >>714304808 >>714304916 >>714305064 >>714306374 >>714306426 >>714306491 >>714306635 >>714306972 >>714307050 >>714307120 >>714307962 >>714308253 >>714308430 >>714308565 >>714309040 >>714309938 >>714310190 >>714310286 >>714310504 >>714310639 >>714311396
DO. THE. WORK.
Anonymous No.714294613 >>714294860 >>714295056 >>714295918 >>714296575 >>714305084
>used vulkan, SDL, SFML, raylib, OpenGL, DirectX
You didn't make the engine
Anonymous No.714294860 >>714295057 >>714295123 >>714297409 >>714309221
>>714294613
writing 2,000 lines of MicrosoftTonguesMyAnus(NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL) is not writing an engine
Anonymous No.714294949
hmmmmmm no
Anonymous No.714295056 >>714306708
>>714294613
Software rendering is the way forward
Anonymous No.714295057
>>714294860
it's not but it would be funny if it was
Anonymous No.714295068 >>714295918 >>714297725 >>714307565
If you can't program an operating system from scratch, you're not a programmer.
Anonymous No.714295071 >>714306195
>>714293105 (OP)
Notch will save gaming again
Anonymous No.714295123
>>714294860
Well You wrote it out once. You copy-paste it.
Anonymous No.714295207 >>714295578
>>714293105 (OP)
authors start with paper, pen, typewriter, computer, stylus and clay tablet. They have tools
gamedevs can either build their own tools (the engine) or use tools that already exist (Unity, UE, etc)
Anonymous No.714295221 >>714295918
Make your own programming languages too, bitches.
Anonymous No.714295329 >>714295918
build your own microchips and breadboard, nodev faggots
Anonymous No.714295445
OP here, forgot to mention I'm tranz btw
Anonymous No.714295487
retard bitch ass didn't even assemble his own peripherals
Anonymous No.714295501 >>714295849 >>714295919 >>714296752 >>714299670
>>714293105 (OP)
>he used logic gates
you didn't make the circuit
Anonymous No.714295578
>>714295207
That is an amazing analogy and you are applying it incorrectly. The typrewriter in your analogy would be more akin to the IDE, the programming language, the graphics API, etc. Not a prebuilt game engine. A prebuilt game engine is more analogous to starting a novel with 10,000 words already written into the story.
Anonymous No.714295579
>he didnt mine the materials for his gaming pc
YOU DIDN'T MAKE THE GAME
Anonymous No.714295587 >>714295997 >>714297876
>used java
you didn't make the game
Anonymous No.714295709 >>714295890
>>714293105 (OP)
minecraft is literally written in LWJGL you hack.
Anonymous No.714295772 >>714295838
this really upset the people who have no development experience and only follow unity tutorials
Anonymous No.714295797
>>714293105 (OP)
Make your own operating system.
Make your own computer.
Make your own electricity.
Chefs don't buy utensils and ingredients.
Anonymous No.714295838 >>714296040
>>714295772
It upset me because Notch is a hypocrite. He used Java and LWJGL. He didn't write his own engine.
Anonymous No.714295849
>>714295501
>he needs anything more than nand
https://nandgame.com/

weakling
Anonymous No.714295890 >>714295945
>>714295709
do you even know what LWJGL is?
Anonymous No.714295918
>>714294613
>>714295068
>>714295221
>>714295329
>714295487
>714295501
>714295579
>714295587
>714295797
All of these arguments are strawmen by the way. Notch draws the line at using a prebuilt game engine, and just because that line is drawn closer to the metal than you'd like it doesn't mean you get to pretend he said you need to start from dirt and stone.
Anonymous No.714295919
>>714295501
My pronouns are AND/NAND
Anonymous No.714295945
>>714295890
It's a library he certainly didn't make.
Anonymous No.714295997
>>714295587
This. Java is a fucking joke
Anonymous No.714296040 >>714296072
>>714295838
i'm not sure how using a programming language and an opengl api is not writing an engine
Anonymous No.714296072 >>714296176 >>714296207
>>714296040
ask him. it's what he said
Anonymous No.714296176 >>714296224
>>714296072
he said using a programming language and opengl is not writing an engine, did he?
Anonymous No.714296207
>>714296072
No it isn't
Anonymous No.714296224 >>714296414 >>714296485
>>714296176
he said start from scratch. using premade libraries isn't scratch.
Anonymous No.714296320 >>714297164 >>714312664
>>714293105 (OP)
>Authors don't download a story template
Factually incorrect.
Most authors stick to one of a handful of templates for organizing a story. Very, very few authors make up a novel way of presenting a narrative. Most authors take an existing narrative frame, and plug their shit into it.
Anonymous No.714296414 >>714296464
>>714296224
do you know what LWJGL is?
Anonymous No.714296464 >>714296605
>>714296414
LWJGL is a Java library. He didn't make it.
Anonymous No.714296485
>>714296224
No he didn't. He said authors start from scratch, which makes sense because you don't need to put "import languages.english" at the top of your text when writing a novel.
Anonymous No.714296575 >>714296684 >>714308861 >>714308861
>>714293105 (OP)
Did you write your own game engine Notch?
>>714294613
we should unironically go back to pure software rendering. Imagine the freedom with the computing capacity we have now.
Anonymous No.714296605
>>714296464
do you know what it's for?
Anonymous No.714296684 >>714308861
>>714296575
>Did you write your own game engine Notch?
...are you suggesting he didn't?
Anonymous No.714296712 >>714296819 >>714296857 >>714297807 >>714298131 >>714302526
>Make a fully functional game that works perfectly
>Some autist goes to the trouble of decompiling your game
>"OMG YOU DIDN'T PROGRAM THIS PART OF THE GAME PERFECTLY YOUR PROGRAMMING IS SO BAD

One of the most annoying fears about making a game is someone looking into my code and calling me out for doing things "wrong"
Anonymous No.714296752 >>714296852
>>714295501
>He used silicon
You didn't wrange those muons yourself you poser.
Anonymous No.714296819
>>714296712
thats not how decompilation works retard
Anonymous No.714296838 >>714296990
nobody except autistic crabs cares about what methods the developers use to make the game. they just care if the game is good/appealing.
its the same reason why normalfags dont care about the "ethics" of slopping ai
Anonymous No.714296852
>>714296752
>he didn't make his own atoms
Not a real programmer
Anonymous No.714296857
>>714296712
none of them knows anything
Anonymous No.714296964 >>714297164
>>714293105 (OP)
>Authors don't download a story templ-ACK
Anonymous No.714296990
>>714296838
there is overwhelming evidence that noobs cannot make good games
Anonymous No.714297164 >>714304392
>>714296320
>>714296964
This would be analogous to creating a game engine with certain design principles you learned from elsewhere, like OOP and ECS.
Anonymous No.714297249
>>714293105 (OP)
Notch didn't even make his own engine. He didn't make infiniminer.
Anonymous No.714297341 >>714297440
>>714293105 (OP)
the equivalent of writing your own engine is not a template, its planting your own trees to make your own paper and pencils.
Anonymous No.714297395
>>714293105 (OP)
>authors don't download a story template
They also don't go out in the woods, cut down a tree, process the logs into paper, gather ink from harvesting dyes or grab coal to write what they want to write.
Anonymous No.714297409 >>714297525
>>714294860
>2k
Baby numbers, MicrosoftTonguesMyAnus or not. Write an engine first before telling others to do so.
Anonymous No.714297440
>>714297341
It really isn't
>t. have written my own engine
Anonymous No.714297525
>>714297409
i'm clearly talking about opening a window and creating contexts on windows
Anonymous No.714297536 >>714297964
>>714293105 (OP)
>fat bald incel
>food analogy

every time lmao
Anonymous No.714297725 >>714302841 >>714307565
>>714295068
If you cant create microchips from scratch, youre not a programmer.
Anonymous No.714297796 >>714298028
>>714293105 (OP)
I BUILD A BRAND NEW CHAIR EVERY TIME I SIT DOWN
Anonymous No.714297807
>>714296712
Nobody cares unless the game is bad. Undertale and Deltarune have some questionable coding but the games work and people like them so they see it was charming. Yandere Simulator also has shitty coding but the game sucks so it becomes another thing in a long list of things to make fun of YS for.
Anonymous No.714297876
>>714295587
Saar, I ...
Anonymous No.714297964 >>714306820
>>714297536
He's right though. Putting assets into an engine and doing a tiny bit of programming to make them run around is closer to what a modder does than a real programmer.
Anonymous No.714297984
>>714293105 (OP)
>reddit the thread
Anonymous No.714298006 >>714298138 >>714298447
>>714293105 (OP)
He's radical but not wrong.
Imagine how many great features got nipped in the bud or shelved just because devs are stuck with old-ass low level legacy shit.
TES6 will still run a fork of Fallout 3 / Oblivion engine which is incredibly embarrassing and speaks volumes about the state of the industry.
Anonymous No.714298028
>>714297796
what's your favorite unity tutorial?
Anonymous No.714298131
>>714296712
Think of it this way: how many times have you seen people praise a game's code? It doesn't happen, they always shit on it. It doesn't matter.
Anonymous No.714298138
>>714298006
>which is incredibly embarrassing
how? how can it be improved?
Anonymous No.714298447 >>714298868
>>714298006
bethesda is famously incompetent and always has been, you shouldn't use this dogshit companion as a representative of anything
Anonymous No.714298607
The real analogy is expecting authors to bind their own books.
Anonymous No.714298868
>>714298447
They aren't, though.
Anonymous No.714298945
Incels are too retarded to make videogames
Anonymous No.714299365 >>714299615
>>714293105 (OP)
>makes his own shit engine
>game has to be later rebuilt from the ground up to get off of it
Just a man who got lucky with his one hit wonder and hasn't been able to follow up with anything since. Maybe if they make an Infiniminer 2 he'll have a new game to steal an idea from.
Anonymous No.714299615
>>714299365
Imagine arguing against a billionaire and thinking you are in the right. Sit the fuck down lil bro.
Anonymous No.714299670 >>714300898 >>714304621
>>714295501
what does buffer do?
Anonymous No.714299986 >>714300106 >>714300131
>Spend thousands of hours doing something that a huge team of people has already done better
No thanks, I'm not retarded. No hobbyist gamedev should ever code their own engine unless they want to do so as a learning exercise.
Anonymous No.714300106 >>714300870
>>714299986
>better
Anonymous No.714300131
>>714299986
You also won't make the game itself.
Anonymous No.714300218
>>714293105 (OP)
>food analogy
Anonymous No.714300870 >>714300992
>>714300106
Yes, better.
>but unreal/unity/godot is shit for reasons I can't articulate because I don't actually know anything about engines
Good talk.
Anonymous No.714300898
>>714299670
X = X
Anonymous No.714300992
>>714300870
you suck
Anonymous No.714301219
>>714293105 (OP)
Two best games of this year used someone else's engine.
What has notch done over the past 10 years?
Anonymous No.714301989
>>714293105 (OP)
I will tell AI to make me an engine.
Anonymous No.714302246
>>714293105 (OP)
I tried. I got to the part where I needed to implement lighting. My stupid ass didn't think that good, simple baked lighting was good enough for a first project, so I dived balls deep into esoteric lighting methods your mind could hardly fathom. I dropped it after a week and never touched engine/game dev since.
Anonymous No.714302526
>>714296712
If you make literally ANY game you will receive a truckload of insipid, stupid criticism. It comes with the territory. You have to ignore the retards, you can't use them as an excuse to never make anything
Anonymous No.714302554
>>714293105 (OP)
>It's like a chef who can only make frozen pizza
Lol, if only it was that easy to open up UE and just press cook button for it to magically shit out my perfect imaginary game in 10 minutes.
Anonymous No.714302562 >>714303847
>stardew valley
>minecraft
>terraria
all have one thing in common
custom engine
Anonymous No.714302841 >>714307565
>>714297725
If you don’t manually set up your NAND gates, you arent a programmer
Anonymous No.714303847 >>714304107
>>714302562
>stardew valley
>ConcernedApe: Unless your game cannot be made otherwise, definitely use something like GameMaker. I know there might be an urge to prove oneself as a "real programmer" by making everything from scratch, but in the end it's not really worth it and it will drain months of your life for no good reason.
Anonymous No.714304107
>>714303847
crafty developer keeping you away from the GOLD PILES by tricking you into using gamemaker
Anonymous No.714304392
>>714297164
Nah
The 5 act story and hero's journey are the authorial equivalent of licensing Unity or Unreal for your novel.
Everyone's seen it a million times before, it sells, everyone has spent a large portion of their education being trained on it. Someone who likes unreal games likes your 5 act story. Someone who hates unreal hates your 5 act. And there's very very little way to convince people who care about the engine to look at something made in it differently. The only real differences are game engines go out of their way to make themselves known, while the average, 5th grade reading level chucklefuck is too illiterate to recognize what they're reading.
Though, I suppose Unity is probably more like the 5 paragraph essay of game engines. Nobody really likes it, but it's easy, and you've been taught how to do it for almost as long as you've been educated.
Anonymous No.714304585
Writing a 3D engine with modern features is not within the capability of a single developer working in their free time.

Also, Notch is trolling for his own personal amusement. He knows this is terrible advice for most people.
Anonymous No.714304621
>>714299670
Provides an extra layer of isolation between an output and an input so that the effective resistance at one port doesn't affect the overall circuit, also refreshes signal strength if needed when the signal "travels" a long distance or fans out to a large amount of nodes.
Anonymous No.714304808 >>714306048 >>714312917
>>714293105 (OP)
Oh I remember that.
Brought the mentally ill entitled and privileged looney troons out of the woodworks.
Anonymous No.714304916
>>714293105 (OP)
>story template
The Hero's Journey
Anonymous No.714305064 >>714305565
>>714293105 (OP)
Ah-hem.
- Love2D if you're in love with Brazil
- PyGame CE if you don't love Brazil but don't know how to code yet.
- SDL is you want to write things in C, but don't want to go into OpenGL
- Monogame or FNA if you're an XNA purist for C# development
- LWJGL if you want to use Java or Clojure while we wait for the official Jank release

Game engine development is not hard. Stop waiting for the ideal circumstances and get on base already. The most important thing is focus.
Anonymous No.714305084
>>714294613
This.
The real man writes his own drivers and goes from there.
Anonymous No.714305091
notch is not a game developer. name any games he made after minecraft. minecraft is 15 years old already. if you haven't made a game in 15 years, you are not a game developer.
Anonymous No.714305565 >>714306048
>>714305064
>official Jank release
>clojure on llvm
You have my attention, clojurechad
Anonymous No.714306048
>>714304808
Ah man, I didn't have this context, but it makes so much more sense now why Notch said those things.
I don't want psychoanalyze too much, but I think the reason Rust is so popular with people who are hyper progressive is because it's so strict about everything and doing things the 'right' way.
For historical context: C was the language that, compared to other languages being developed at the time, did not give a shit. There's a famous conversation between an academic Lisp programmer and a C Dev talking about error handling and the Lisp programmer discusses how hard it is to restore the program to the correct state, while the C programmer just shrugs and says they let the program crash.
Modern day low-level developers now care very deeply about correctness, because exploits are so much easier to find and the cost is so much higher, but that same pedantic attitude gets applied to EVERYTHING.
Because you have to pass all the purity tests or you're with the enemy, you're either unsafe or safe. This, versus the duct tape programmers like Notch who run into an edge case with encoding player position and just makes a dirty hack for it instead of re-architecting everything.
It's a deeply philosophical battle.
>>714305565
Honestly, it makes sense:
First Clojure was made by an irate Java developer because he hated writing Java.
Then it was used by irate JavaScript developers because they hated writing Javascript.
THEN it was used by irate bash programmers because they hated writing Shell.
The history of Clojure is being a lisp for people who are tired writing in other languages.
BlamScript in Halo: CE is a precedent for lisp-style scripting in game engines.

Clojure in game dev is just a matter of time.
Anonymous No.714306195
>>714295071
but it won't save him from obesity
Anonymous No.714306374 >>714307242
>>714293105 (OP)
Does nobody here remember all the "vacations" Notch used to take and how fucked Minecraft was at times? He has always been a lazy fuck
Anonymous No.714306426
>>714293105 (OP)
build your own computer
Anonymous No.714306491
>>714293105 (OP)
>All of these cope posts
rumao
Anonymous No.714306635 >>714306819
>>714293105 (OP)
>if you want to make a pie first you have to universe etc
Anonymous No.714306708 >>714308861
>>714295056
truee
have you seen this
https://drummyfish.itch.io/licar
Anonymous No.714306819
>>714306635
>"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"
Anonymous No.714306820 >>714311365
>>714297964
No it isn't you pretentious moron, lmao.
Anonymous No.714306972
>>714293105 (OP)
Sorry wrong pic.
Anonymous No.714307050
>>714293105 (OP)
>go to make a game
>have lots of fun developing the engine and get it to a useable state for what I need in a couple weeks
>spend another 8 years adding to and upgrading it and completely forget about making the game I wanted to in the first place
Don't fall for OP /v/ros
Anonymous No.714307120
>>714293105 (OP)
>make your own knife
Anonymous No.714307242
>>714306374
What a time to be alive
Anonymous No.714307565
>>714295068
>>714297725
>>714302841
Punchcards or gtfo
Anonymous No.714307962
>>714293105 (OP)
fuck...
Anonymous No.714308080
Roblox won
Anonymous No.714308253
>>714293105 (OP)
Anonymous No.714308430
>>714293105 (OP)
>make your own game engine
said a dude that used a stolen source code to do the one thing that brought him fame and nothing of value beside that.
Anonymous No.714308565
>>714293105 (OP)
Dude's too extreme. But writing your own engine isn't the impossible task that stupid people on the internet pretend it is. They're just parroting what they read on reddit or saw on youtbe, without knowing what they're talking about.

When people hear "engine" they're thinking of Unity or Unreal. It would take decades for a single person to make a general-purpose engine + editor like those. It's far simpler to create the underlying structure for the specific game that you're actually creating. So it's just a misunderstanding and misuse of the word "engine."

But I know rolling your own tech isn't for everyone and that the current cultural zeitgeist is anti-intellectualism and anti-learning, so it is what it is. Let it be and do your own thing, don't worry about other people.
Anonymous No.714308861
>>714296575
>>714296684
pretty much yeah, he did use Lightweight Java Game Library (LJGL) https://www.lwjgl.org/ which abstracts away input handling and graphics related stuff, similar to SDL. If you think those don't count as making it "from scratch" you missed the point of portability when it comes to simple or 'suckless' software design, that's why nocoders who say shit like "write it in muh pure x86 assembly" are retarded because doing so restricts your program to only 1 architecture when you could just write in C or whatever language you want to use and enable ISA-specific optimizations if you really need them when building for that architecture.
>>714296575
regarding software rendering I definitely agree, writing a renderer in software-form first makes it way more flexible compared to writing it directly in OpenGL or Vulkan. That being said, GPUs are necessary for a lot of the rendering we take for granted these days, especially when rendering at a high resolution and FPS. I linked to a recently released software rendered game here >>714306708 but even on my modern CPU it still chugs if you try to play it at 1440p 144fps (the game is literal PS1 level graphics btw), a lot of that might come down to how the game was optimized for embedded devices like arduino game consoles though, I wish we had some good benchmarks on this shit because you're probably right, I found a video of someone doing software-only raytracing using SIMD instructions which proves you can do high end shit without a GPU:
https://youtu.be/jF3BAPIAXW0
Anonymous No.714309040 >>714309321 >>714310439
>>714293105 (OP)
In fairness, what great, defining, innovative, legendary games were made in Unity or Unreal?
Anonymous No.714309221
>>714294860
it was java
Anonymous No.714309321 >>714309872
>>714309040
Well, not Unity but Undertale was made with Gamemaker. Toby was a bit of a techlet at the time he made it too. Undertale is arguably the most influential indie game right now, what with the deltarune stuff going on.
Anonymous No.714309595 >>714309784
Notch's engine is dogshit though.
Anonymous No.714309784 >>714310043
>>714309595
yeah but his dogshit made literal billions
Anonymous No.714309872 >>714310767
>>714309321
He also said he was waiting for Gamemaker 2 to finish Deltarune specifically for a feature it has that allows a game-within-a-game, something that wouldn't be that hard to implement yourself even if you were using Unity or whatever and didn't know anything about engine development. So I mean, you don't need to be a technical genius to make something like Undertale and be successful.
Anonymous No.714309938
>>714293105 (OP)
Writing your own engine makes sense in scenarios like Noita where existing engines would've shit themselves with what they were trying to do but 99% of the time the only good reasons to make your own engine are intellectual curiosity or freedom from license jewery.
Anonymous No.714310043 >>714310270
>>714309784
Because microcock rewrote it in c++
Anonymous No.714310190 >>714310249
>>714293105 (OP)
I don't care, I'm going to use GameMaker for my 2D game.
Anonymous No.714310249
>>714310190
It's gonna suck
Anonymous No.714310270 >>714310702
>>714310043
after they bought the IP for billions
Anonymous No.714310286
>>714293105 (OP)
I made it a point early in life not to take advice from a guy wearing Minny Mouse ears on Twitter, and I won't start now
Anonymous No.714310439 >>714310652
>>714309040
Ever heard of this niche indie game "PokΓ©mon GO"?
Anonymous No.714310504
>>714293105 (OP)
Minecraft is a java game, Notch. Spare us the browbeating
Anonymous No.714310639
>>714293105 (OP)
>Fatty uses food analogy
But its a moot point. Everyone eats frozen food so does it really matter?
Anonymous No.714310652
>>714310439
If it wasn't a Pokemon game (whose mainline games all have their own engines except BDSP lololol) I doubt it'd be as popular as it was
Anonymous No.714310702
>>714310270
No they did it before the acquisition
Anonymous No.714310767
>>714309872
Point is, you shouldn't feel bad about using a premade engine if your game isn't that technical. Much of Undertale's gimmicks were accomplished with very basic scripting tricks with a narrative covering it all up, but anything deeper would have been very difficult if not impossible in an engine like Game Maker. Minecraft and Terraria are far more systems-heavy games, so using a custom built engine for them makes more sense.
Anonymous No.714311365
>>714306820
Unreal slop artist isn't programming
Anonymous No.714311396
>>714293105 (OP)
Dude made possibly the shittiest game engine ever in Java and acts like this
Anonymous No.714312227
Making a custom engine is in the same vein as people that do:
>”I want to really get into a new skill/hobby/fix my life… but first I’m going to clean my room, do the dishes, wash the car, etc”
>mindless busywork of cleaning triggers satisfaction and they forgot about their original goal
Of course Notch loves making a custom engine because it involves solving very concrete and known problems and basically just of checklist of drudgery. It feels good β€˜putting in the work’ and allows you to post-pone the actual important work of coming up with actually satisfying gameplay or art aesthetic to look good or a story to make players care.
Anonymous No.714312664
>>714296320
And most authors are terrible. Just like how most games are terrible. Did you know that almost 19,000 games released on Steam just last year?
Anonymous No.714312917
>>714304808
Their entire worldview really is based on uncontrollable envy.
Anonymous No.714313153
The best reason to make your own engine is that constraint breeds creativity. Finding ways to make things work the way you want them to brings out the best in us all. Media has gone to shit over the last two decades because there's no restrictions anymore.