>used vulkan, SDL, SFML, raylib, OpenGL, DirectX
You didn't make the engine

>>714294613
writing 2,000 lines of MicrosoftTonguesMyAnus(NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL) is not writing an engine

hmmmmmm no

>>714294613
Software rendering is the way forward

>>714294860
it's not but it would be funny if it was

If you can't program an operating system from scratch, you're not a programmer.

>>714293105 (OP)
Notch will save gaming again

>>714294860
Well You wrote it out once. You copy-paste it.

>>714293105 (OP)
authors start with paper, pen, typewriter, computer, stylus and clay tablet. They have tools
gamedevs can either build their own tools (the engine) or use tools that already exist (Unity, UE, etc)

Make your own programming languages too, bitches.

build your own microchips and breadboard, nodev faggots

OP here, forgot to mention I'm tranz btw

retard bitch ass didn't even assemble his own peripherals

>>714293105 (OP)
>he used logic gates
you didn't make the circuit

>>714295207
That is an amazing analogy and you are applying it incorrectly. The typrewriter in your analogy would be more akin to the IDE, the programming language, the graphics API, etc. Not a prebuilt game engine. A prebuilt game engine is more analogous to starting a novel with 10,000 words already written into the story.

>he didnt mine the materials for his gaming pc
YOU DIDN'T MAKE THE GAME

>used java
you didn't make the game

>>714293105 (OP)
minecraft is literally written in LWJGL you hack.

this really upset the people who have no development experience and only follow unity tutorials

>>714293105 (OP)
Make your own operating system.
Make your own computer.
Make your own electricity.
Chefs don't buy utensils and ingredients.

>>714295772
It upset me because Notch is a hypocrite. He used Java and LWJGL. He didn't write his own engine.

>>714295501
>he needs anything more than nand
https://nandgame.com/

weakling

>>714295709
do you even know what LWJGL is?

>>714294613
>>714295068
>>714295221
>>714295329
>714295487
>714295501
>714295579
>714295587
>714295797
All of these arguments are strawmen by the way. Notch draws the line at using a prebuilt game engine, and just because that line is drawn closer to the metal than you'd like it doesn't mean you get to pretend he said you need to start from dirt and stone.

>>714295501
My pronouns are AND/NAND

>>714295890
It's a library he certainly didn't make.

>>714295587
This. Java is a fucking joke

>>714295838
i'm not sure how using a programming language and an opengl api is not writing an engine

>>714296040
ask him. it's what he said

>>714296072
he said using a programming language and opengl is not writing an engine, did he?

>>714296072
No it isn't

>>714296176
he said start from scratch. using premade libraries isn't scratch.

>>714293105 (OP)
>Authors don't download a story template
Factually incorrect.
Most authors stick to one of a handful of templates for organizing a story. Very, very few authors make up a novel way of presenting a narrative. Most authors take an existing narrative frame, and plug their shit into it.

>>714296224
do you know what LWJGL is?

>>714296414
LWJGL is a Java library. He didn't make it.

>>714296224
No he didn't. He said authors start from scratch, which makes sense because you don't need to put "import languages.english" at the top of your text when writing a novel.

>>714293105 (OP)
Did you write your own game engine Notch?
>>714294613
we should unironically go back to pure software rendering. Imagine the freedom with the computing capacity we have now.

>>714296464
do you know what it's for?

>>714296575
>Did you write your own game engine Notch?
...are you suggesting he didn't?

>Make a fully functional game that works perfectly
>Some autist goes to the trouble of decompiling your game
>"OMG YOU DIDN'T PROGRAM THIS PART OF THE GAME PERFECTLY YOUR PROGRAMMING IS SO BAD

One of the most annoying fears about making a game is someone looking into my code and calling me out for doing things "wrong"

>>714295501
>He used silicon
You didn't wrange those muons yourself you poser.

>>714296712
thats not how decompilation works retard

nobody except autistic crabs cares about what methods the developers use to make the game. they just care if the game is good/appealing.
its the same reason why normalfags dont care about the "ethics" of slopping ai

>>714296752
>he didn't make his own atoms
Not a real programmer

>>714296712
none of them knows anything

>>714293105 (OP)
>Authors don't download a story templ-ACK

>>714296838
there is overwhelming evidence that noobs cannot make good games

>>714296320
>>714296964
This would be analogous to creating a game engine with certain design principles you learned from elsewhere, like OOP and ECS.

>>714293105 (OP)
Notch didn't even make his own engine. He didn't make infiniminer.

>>714293105 (OP)
the equivalent of writing your own engine is not a template, its planting your own trees to make your own paper and pencils.

>>714293105 (OP)
>authors don't download a story template
They also don't go out in the woods, cut down a tree, process the logs into paper, gather ink from harvesting dyes or grab coal to write what they want to write.

>>714294860
>2k
Baby numbers, MicrosoftTonguesMyAnus or not. Write an engine first before telling others to do so.

>>714297341
It really isn't
>t. have written my own engine

>>714297409
i'm clearly talking about opening a window and creating contexts on windows

>>714293105 (OP)
>fat bald incel
>food analogy

every time lmao

>>714295068
If you cant create microchips from scratch, youre not a programmer.

>>714293105 (OP)
I BUILD A BRAND NEW CHAIR EVERY TIME I SIT DOWN

>>714296712
Nobody cares unless the game is bad. Undertale and Deltarune have some questionable coding but the games work and people like them so they see it was charming. Yandere Simulator also has shitty coding but the game sucks so it becomes another thing in a long list of things to make fun of YS for.

>>714295587
Saar, I ...

>>714297536
He's right though. Putting assets into an engine and doing a tiny bit of programming to make them run around is closer to what a modder does than a real programmer.

>>714293105 (OP)
>reddit the thread

>>714293105 (OP)
He's radical but not wrong.
Imagine how many great features got nipped in the bud or shelved just because devs are stuck with old-ass low level legacy shit.
TES6 will still run a fork of Fallout 3 / Oblivion engine which is incredibly embarrassing and speaks volumes about the state of the industry.

>>714297796
what's your favorite unity tutorial?

>>714296712
Think of it this way: how many times have you seen people praise a game's code? It doesn't happen, they always shit on it. It doesn't matter.

>>714298006
>which is incredibly embarrassing
how? how can it be improved?

>>714298006
bethesda is famously incompetent and always has been, you shouldn't use this dogshit companion as a representative of anything

The real analogy is expecting authors to bind their own books.

>>714298447
They aren't, though.

Incels are too retarded to make videogames

>>714293105 (OP)
>makes his own shit engine
>game has to be later rebuilt from the ground up to get off of it
Just a man who got lucky with his one hit wonder and hasn't been able to follow up with anything since. Maybe if they make an Infiniminer 2 he'll have a new game to steal an idea from.

>>714299365
Imagine arguing against a billionaire and thinking you are in the right. Sit the fuck down lil bro.

>>714295501
what does buffer do?

>Spend thousands of hours doing something that a huge team of people has already done better
No thanks, I'm not retarded. No hobbyist gamedev should ever code their own engine unless they want to do so as a learning exercise.

>>714299986
>better

>>714299986
You also won't make the game itself.

>>714293105 (OP)
>food analogy

>>714300106
Yes, better.
>but unreal/unity/godot is shit for reasons I can't articulate because I don't actually know anything about engines
Good talk.

>>714299670
X = X

>>714300870
you suck

>>714293105 (OP)
Two best games of this year used someone else's engine.
What has notch done over the past 10 years?

>>714293105 (OP)
I will tell AI to make me an engine.

>>714293105 (OP)
I tried. I got to the part where I needed to implement lighting. My stupid ass didn't think that good, simple baked lighting was good enough for a first project, so I dived balls deep into esoteric lighting methods your mind could hardly fathom. I dropped it after a week and never touched engine/game dev since.

>>714296712
If you make literally ANY game you will receive a truckload of insipid, stupid criticism. It comes with the territory. You have to ignore the retards, you can't use them as an excuse to never make anything

>>714293105 (OP)
>It's like a chef who can only make frozen pizza
Lol, if only it was that easy to open up UE and just press cook button for it to magically shit out my perfect imaginary game in 10 minutes.

>stardew valley
>minecraft
>terraria
all have one thing in common
custom engine

>>714297725
If you don’t manually set up your NAND gates, you arent a programmer

>>714302562
>stardew valley
>ConcernedApe: Unless your game cannot be made otherwise, definitely use something like GameMaker. I know there might be an urge to prove oneself as a "real programmer" by making everything from scratch, but in the end it's not really worth it and it will drain months of your life for no good reason.

>>714303847
crafty developer keeping you away from the GOLD PILES by tricking you into using gamemaker

>>714297164
Nah
The 5 act story and hero's journey are the authorial equivalent of licensing Unity or Unreal for your novel.
Everyone's seen it a million times before, it sells, everyone has spent a large portion of their education being trained on it. Someone who likes unreal games likes your 5 act story. Someone who hates unreal hates your 5 act. And there's very very little way to convince people who care about the engine to look at something made in it differently. The only real differences are game engines go out of their way to make themselves known, while the average, 5th grade reading level chucklefuck is too illiterate to recognize what they're reading.
Though, I suppose Unity is probably more like the 5 paragraph essay of game engines. Nobody really likes it, but it's easy, and you've been taught how to do it for almost as long as you've been educated.

Writing a 3D engine with modern features is not within the capability of a single developer working in their free time.

Also, Notch is trolling for his own personal amusement. He knows this is terrible advice for most people.

>>714299670
Provides an extra layer of isolation between an output and an input so that the effective resistance at one port doesn't affect the overall circuit, also refreshes signal strength if needed when the signal "travels" a long distance or fans out to a large amount of nodes.

>>714293105 (OP)
Oh I remember that.
Brought the mentally ill entitled and privileged looney troons out of the woodworks.

>>714293105 (OP)
>story template
The Hero's Journey

>>714293105 (OP)
Ah-hem.
- Love2D if you're in love with Brazil
- PyGame CE if you don't love Brazil but don't know how to code yet.
- SDL is you want to write things in C, but don't want to go into OpenGL
- Monogame or FNA if you're an XNA purist for C# development
- LWJGL if you want to use Java or Clojure while we wait for the official Jank release

Game engine development is not hard. Stop waiting for the ideal circumstances and get on base already. The most important thing is focus.

>>714294613
This.
The real man writes his own drivers and goes from there.

notch is not a game developer. name any games he made after minecraft. minecraft is 15 years old already. if you haven't made a game in 15 years, you are not a game developer.

>>714305064
>official Jank release
>clojure on llvm
You have my attention, clojurechad

>>714304808
Ah man, I didn't have this context, but it makes so much more sense now why Notch said those things.
I don't want psychoanalyze too much, but I think the reason Rust is so popular with people who are hyper progressive is because it's so strict about everything and doing things the 'right' way.
For historical context: C was the language that, compared to other languages being developed at the time, did not give a shit. There's a famous conversation between an academic Lisp programmer and a C Dev talking about error handling and the Lisp programmer discusses how hard it is to restore the program to the correct state, while the C programmer just shrugs and says they let the program crash.
Modern day low-level developers now care very deeply about correctness, because exploits are so much easier to find and the cost is so much higher, but that same pedantic attitude gets applied to EVERYTHING.
Because you have to pass all the purity tests or you're with the enemy, you're either unsafe or safe. This, versus the duct tape programmers like Notch who run into an edge case with encoding player position and just makes a dirty hack for it instead of re-architecting everything.
It's a deeply philosophical battle.
>>714305565
Honestly, it makes sense:
First Clojure was made by an irate Java developer because he hated writing Java.
Then it was used by irate JavaScript developers because they hated writing Javascript.
THEN it was used by irate bash programmers because they hated writing Shell.
The history of Clojure is being a lisp for people who are tired writing in other languages.
BlamScript in Halo: CE is a precedent for lisp-style scripting in game engines.

Clojure in game dev is just a matter of time.

>>714295071
but it won't save him from obesity

>>714293105 (OP)
Does nobody here remember all the "vacations" Notch used to take and how fucked Minecraft was at times? He has always been a lazy fuck

>>714293105 (OP)
build your own computer

>>714293105 (OP)
>All of these cope posts
rumao

>>714293105 (OP)
>if you want to make a pie first you have to universe etc

>>714295056
truee
have you seen this
https://drummyfish.itch.io/licar

>>714306635
>"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

>>714297964
No it isn't you pretentious moron, lmao.

>>714293105 (OP)
Sorry wrong pic.

>>714293105 (OP)
>go to make a game
>have lots of fun developing the engine and get it to a useable state for what I need in a couple weeks
>spend another 8 years adding to and upgrading it and completely forget about making the game I wanted to in the first place
Don't fall for OP /v/ros

>>714293105 (OP)
>make your own knife

>>714306374
What a time to be alive

>>714295068
>>714297725
>>714302841
Punchcards or gtfo

>>714293105 (OP)
fuck...

Roblox won

>>714293105 (OP)

>>714293105 (OP)
>make your own game engine
said a dude that used a stolen source code to do the one thing that brought him fame and nothing of value beside that.

>>714293105 (OP)
Dude's too extreme. But writing your own engine isn't the impossible task that stupid people on the internet pretend it is. They're just parroting what they read on reddit or saw on youtbe, without knowing what they're talking about.

When people hear "engine" they're thinking of Unity or Unreal. It would take decades for a single person to make a general-purpose engine + editor like those. It's far simpler to create the underlying structure for the specific game that you're actually creating. So it's just a misunderstanding and misuse of the word "engine."

But I know rolling your own tech isn't for everyone and that the current cultural zeitgeist is anti-intellectualism and anti-learning, so it is what it is. Let it be and do your own thing, don't worry about other people.

>>714296575
>>714296684
pretty much yeah, he did use Lightweight Java Game Library (LJGL) https://www.lwjgl.org/ which abstracts away input handling and graphics related stuff, similar to SDL. If you think those don't count as making it "from scratch" you missed the point of portability when it comes to simple or 'suckless' software design, that's why nocoders who say shit like "write it in muh pure x86 assembly" are retarded because doing so restricts your program to only 1 architecture when you could just write in C or whatever language you want to use and enable ISA-specific optimizations if you really need them when building for that architecture.
>>714296575
regarding software rendering I definitely agree, writing a renderer in software-form first makes it way more flexible compared to writing it directly in OpenGL or Vulkan. That being said, GPUs are necessary for a lot of the rendering we take for granted these days, especially when rendering at a high resolution and FPS. I linked to a recently released software rendered game here >>714306708 but even on my modern CPU it still chugs if you try to play it at 1440p 144fps (the game is literal PS1 level graphics btw), a lot of that might come down to how the game was optimized for embedded devices like arduino game consoles though, I wish we had some good benchmarks on this shit because you're probably right, I found a video of someone doing software-only raytracing using SIMD instructions which proves you can do high end shit without a GPU:
https://youtu.be/jF3BAPIAXW0

>>714293105 (OP)
In fairness, what great, defining, innovative, legendary games were made in Unity or Unreal?

>>714294860
it was java

>>714309040
Well, not Unity but Undertale was made with Gamemaker. Toby was a bit of a techlet at the time he made it too. Undertale is arguably the most influential indie game right now, what with the deltarune stuff going on.

Notch's engine is dogshit though.

>>714309595
yeah but his dogshit made literal billions

>>714309321
He also said he was waiting for Gamemaker 2 to finish Deltarune specifically for a feature it has that allows a game-within-a-game, something that wouldn't be that hard to implement yourself even if you were using Unity or whatever and didn't know anything about engine development. So I mean, you don't need to be a technical genius to make something like Undertale and be successful.

>>714293105 (OP)
Writing your own engine makes sense in scenarios like Noita where existing engines would've shit themselves with what they were trying to do but 99% of the time the only good reasons to make your own engine are intellectual curiosity or freedom from license jewery.

>>714309784
Because microcock rewrote it in c++

>>714293105 (OP)
I don't care, I'm going to use GameMaker for my 2D game.

>>714310190
It's gonna suck

>>714310043
after they bought the IP for billions

>>714293105 (OP)
I made it a point early in life not to take advice from a guy wearing Minny Mouse ears on Twitter, and I won't start now

>>714309040
Ever heard of this niche indie game "Pokémon GO"?

>>714293105 (OP)
Minecraft is a java game, Notch. Spare us the browbeating

>>714293105 (OP)
>Fatty uses food analogy
But its a moot point. Everyone eats frozen food so does it really matter?

>>714310439
If it wasn't a Pokemon game (whose mainline games all have their own engines except BDSP lololol) I doubt it'd be as popular as it was

>>714310270
No they did it before the acquisition

>>714309872
Point is, you shouldn't feel bad about using a premade engine if your game isn't that technical. Much of Undertale's gimmicks were accomplished with very basic scripting tricks with a narrative covering it all up, but anything deeper would have been very difficult if not impossible in an engine like Game Maker. Minecraft and Terraria are far more systems-heavy games, so using a custom built engine for them makes more sense.

>>714306820
Unreal slop artist isn't programming

>>714293105 (OP)
Dude made possibly the shittiest game engine ever in Java and acts like this

Making a custom engine is in the same vein as people that do:
>”I want to really get into a new skill/hobby/fix my life… but first I’m going to clean my room, do the dishes, wash the car, etc”
>mindless busywork of cleaning triggers satisfaction and they forgot about their original goal
Of course Notch loves making a custom engine because it involves solving very concrete and known problems and basically just of checklist of drudgery. It feels good ‘putting in the work’ and allows you to post-pone the actual important work of coming up with actually satisfying gameplay or art aesthetic to look good or a story to make players care.

>>714296320
And most authors are terrible. Just like how most games are terrible. Did you know that almost 19,000 games released on Steam just last year?

>>714304808
Their entire worldview really is based on uncontrollable envy.

The best reason to make your own engine is that constraint breeds creativity. Finding ways to make things work the way you want them to brings out the best in us all. Media has gone to shit over the last two decades because there's no restrictions anymore.