Thread 714362385

Why have extraction games failed to gather a large audience despite relentless shilling from devs in the past 5 years?

it's premature to have marathon crossed out before it's even out. yes it has a 90% chance to flop but still

>>714362385 (OP)
because none of them realized what made their games successful and continue to cater to no-lifers and streamers.

TL;DR: they're fucking stupid. the usual.

>>714362385 (OP)
Because no one likes extraction shooters much.

>>714362385 (OP)
They had a minor popularity spike years ago then fell off and became niche.
A bunch of devs and publishers saw that popularity spike and thought they could get in early on the next Battle Royale level fad so started developing their own take on this shit.
Here we are years later seeing these trend chasing releases crash and burn

>>714362385 (OP)
>Hunt showdown not on the list
My favorite game to hate. Been playing since 2018 and they somehow keep making it better and worse each update.
Fuck crytek.

>>714362385 (OP)
Because they appeal to a very specific niche of masochist who can lose hours of progress instantly and just shrug and start over. Trying to deform and twist this concept to have mass appeal is a non starter.

>>714362385 (OP)
Delta Force has 100k+ player daily though

>>714362727
It's a PvP game and the extraction part has continously been de-emphasized over time. No one plays Hunt just to kill NPC monsters and extract because there's no reason to do that.

>>714362385 (OP)
>Item lost forever
>Feels bad man
It will never gain attractions among normies.
Just like why Digimon will never get more popular than pokemon.
Retarded normies feel bad for losing their digimons.

>>714362385 (OP)
It's funny how big companies try to force this genre to become the next battle royale successor so they can make a quick buck. Really isn't working out especially since they always water down the formula.

>other extraction shooters: we need to streamline the experience to make it easier for casuals to get into it, resulting in a steady stream of revenue
>Tarkov:

>>714362481
90% is generous.

>>714363125
hardcore tarkov player here with thousands of hours and unheard, multi kappa etc etc.
i am not touching this wipe
fuck that

>>714363125
Wow streamer mode!

>>714364415
People still buy Destiny 2 expansions so 90% is actually too high

>>714364451
its literally anti-streamer mode
no one wants to watch a streamer load a match, run without doing shit to the transition then watch another loading screen

>>714364534
>Transition
What, did Niggerita finally implement the
>Bro every map is connected!!
shit?

>>714364582
why are you commenting on a game you don't know about

>>714362385 (OP)
Niggita won simply because his game will be the only one with a functional PvE mode. Double dipping the hardcore and casual audiences. Gamme will blow up once it's on Steam screencap this.
He can even do the funniest thing and release 1.0 right before Arc Raiders.

>>714364723
Because I used to play it years ago?

>>714364764
>>714364582
maps have in game transitions where it loads you into the map exit you go to
some quests are locked behind doing transitions etc.

>>714364451
If it was streamer mode they'd buff loot up to absurd levels and make bosses 100% spawn and remove flea market restrictions

>>714364854
I see, they added transitions between map on top of extractions.

Well, how are you guys liking that so far?
Does it load you into an ongoing round when you transition to another map?

>>714365092
>Well, how are you guys liking that so far?
its kinda shit because of long loading/queue times
if they can unfuck that then it'll be alright
>Does it load you into an ongoing round when you transition to another map?
it drops you in a minute or so after the match starts generally

>>714365092
For the past couple of wipes it's been pretty pointless because regular extracts exist and you can queue into every map normally (minus a location they added for an event this wipe which while novel and neat was pretty poorly designed otherwise and doubled down on the bullet sponge PvE boss gameplay so nobody's bothered with it since the event ended)
They basically just put you into queue for another map directly without having to extract and queue up again manually. You can send some items back to stash if you pay a fee but that's about it.

It's what should make this next wipe interesting. People are going to have to actually set up their loadout for sustainability over a longer period of time instead of just taking in two 60 rounders and a single salewa/hemostatic injector.

>>714362493
>because none of them realized what made their games successful and continue to cater to no-lifers and streamers.
But thats what made EFT so popular? Free shills

>>714362820
the vast majority of those people are chinese players. queues are still very long both in warzone and operations. been like this for a long time.

>>714365919
>its kinda shit because of long loading/queue times

Unironically why I dropped that shite. You spend ages managing your inventory because you're not an EODretard. Spend years loading into a match, enjoy the stutterfest that is the match (Ahh, the two-second freeze the first time a gun is fired, classic), die/extract, and enjoy all of that again.

Like two minutes of enjoyment in an hour of waiting.

>>714366118
Just play SPT broski, unless you're one of those people whose sole enjoyment of the game is dunking on timmies and not the gun porn

>>714362820
literally all changs, it's like saying PUBG is still popular
Yeah technically, but you're not going to see anyone in the west talk about it
basically the only extraction shooters with any popularity at the moment still are Tarkov, Hunt (by loose definition) and GZW
ARC Raiders might be able to get itself off the ground considering its initial hype but delaying release to the ass end of the year after already having a wave of popularity with your closed beta is a pretty dumb move, could see people losing interest pretty quick if some other 'good' FOTM shooter comes out during that period eg. BF6

>>714366602
>whose sole enjoyment of the game is dunking on timmies

You caught me. I had the most fun just going into Snoreline/Customs/Woods with a few cartons of milk, sitting in a bush and waiting for some dweeb to go past.

>>714367331
>my meme gets posted by someone else
feels good

>>714364739
all the people who wanted to play tarkov already bought it

From my experience playing dark and darker
>like 3 fucking maps
>PVE and PVP combat requires learning obtuse movement and pacing that doesn't come through natural learning
>queuing with strangers is atrocious
>way too much down time between rounds
>game is setup in a a way that hostility will dominate all interactions with other players
>ultimately meaningless loop of gameplay
>it just really is not fun to get a weapon that does +1.2% damage and then have to sort that between all your other barely better gear
>those times you choose to gear up you get a bad map/bad spawn and a tough enemy shreds you followed by some guy with 200 hours spin jumping and insta killing you

>>714362385 (OP)
They suck. Tarkov players simply enjoy the way that particular game sucks. It can't be copied.

>>714362493
>because none of them realized what made their games successful and continue to cater to no-lifers and streamers.

All i wanted was Dark and Darker, except:
- breakout from the square geomorph template system and use real randomly generated maps
- generic enemies that are more randomized with broader stat ranges and abilities, and this includes "quantity encountered" as an ability
- high degrees of stealth integration (including leaning and physical mobility options like climbing) and an integrated illumination mechanic that simulates deep shadows of truly zero light; like, physically hide the player that is in deep shadows from sight, by removing their model from display entirely.
- building a social network of players in the online mode for a pseudo-mmo collection of "friends, acquaintances, unknowns, incompetents, enemies, and clowns" so even in a server system where no community controls exist, the player can control their own interactions.
- just let me play true solo "offline" when i want and play multiplayer retard-wrangling simulator when i want
- no really, just do PvE only. really, just stop fucking introducing PvP... you fucking mongoloid retards what the fuck is wrong with you. STOP DOING PVP.
- stop listening to the retarded members of the player base; the streamers and the "suggestions" for game balance
- ok fine, give an optional PvP mode on dedicated community servers for the idiots who complain about lacking PvP mode, and let them fuck off and have custom settings for shit. don't like magic? turn it off. in your server. don't like warriors? disable the class. in your server. don't like official servers? play in your own server. faggot.

People like the idea of an extraction games and it being done "properly" more than they actually like any extraction games that come out.

>>714371942
and i can see some replies coming my way that might go like
> bruh why do you hate PvP in extraction/loot games?
so to answer that:
i hate, as well as anyone should, who has suffered the effect of it being present in extraction games centered around player hardships... naturally, cooperation counter-acts this hardship and should be the encouragement, and the anti-cooperation play styles should be discouraged or prevented entirely.

but because the developers continue to, with a nod and wink i'm certain, allow CHEATERS to persist in their degrading of anything they touch with third party item markets.
"give us your real money for virtual power" whispers the cheater into the ears of every competitively driven and mentally DENTED individual, and we end up with another "every raid in EFT has at least 1 cheater" situation

> download ESP
> look at someone in the game
> spam emotes at them like a retard
> get emotes spammed back at you
> THE ENTIRE GAME CENTERS AROUND NOT KNOWING ABOUT OTHER PLAYERS IN THE AREA
> ESPECIALLY NOT KNOWING ABOUT THE LOOT IN THE AREA
> the ESP cheat can tell you about the loot, too
result: the core concept of the game is fucking dead, and the stake through the heart is made out of "competitive PvP design"

>>714362385 (OP)
People don't actually care that much about the extraction shooter genre, they care about extremely detailed gun and military autism. NOTHING provides that but Tarkov, ArmA and those forever early access ones like Ground Branch right now. You could argue Ready or Not does too, but for SWAT.
I have no idea why big companies are so scared of gun and military autism.

Online shooters are dead because everyone is either running a controller or is fighting against humanized aimbots powered by machine learning, and they are all grinding towards the next tranny skin, fueled by SBMM/RMMM algorithms who've fried their dopamine receptors l.

>>714372120
Yeah I mean I like the idea of going into a hostile zone with other players, looting progressively better gear, and then getting to use that gear on the next mission but in practice it sucks ass with the current mechanics setup

>makes a bunch of companies waste millions of dollars and self destruct just so they can make shitty copycat games
Kneel

>>714373931
I will never kneel to nigkita

>>714362548
Tarkov with friends is super fun

>extraction shooter
It sounds so fucking dumb. It's just a shooter with objectives. If anything they're objective based shooters.
Why did everyone latch onto the term "extraction shooter" specifically?

>>714374227
Because the point is to extract with a bunch of loot? That's the main objective.

>>714372931
>People don't actually care that much about the extraction shooter genre, they care about extremely detailed gun and military autism

tl;dr "Action figures" aka Dress-up dolls... For men.

Jagged Alliance 2's laptop music is seared into my brain while looking at the Bobby Rays Guns and Things store. Thanks 1.13 mod, you triggered my action figure autism by making my perfect GI Joe dress-up team of 6 IMP mercs.

>>714374093
So is throwing cans at moving trains you fucking retard.

>>714362385 (OP)
because PvPvE makes people feel bad.
they enjoy the PvE and the occasional PvP kill, but the moment they get killed/cheated/lagged and lose their equipment, they lose all energy to play. so only the most masochistic people or people with masochistic friends are left who keep playing

>>714362385 (OP)
few extraction shooters are fun because of the extraction shooter design they're generally played in spite of it
of the successful ones I can think of you have ones like hunt where the extraction element itself is quite minor or you have ones like tarkov where its the crux of your ability to progress
both have issues with balance; in hunt its the balance of weapons and abilities in the context of there being 1, 2, and 3 man teams running around the map which creates wildly different interactions and in tarkov its everyone being bored as shit after the first couple weeks having fat armor that encourages you to ignore anything interesting for stuff to do damage through armor or abuse this patch's broken mechanic
hunt's main issues are just standard fare for pvp games that aren't strictly two team deals but most of tarkov's non systems related issues revolve around its extraction shooter design and the consequences of that design

single player extraction games get around these issues because the only power scaling risk over time is strictly the player getting better gear and its still not typically incentivized to always be bringing your best gear because its not worth the cost in resources unless you're going into difficult areas/levels with it where you need it
at that point you start running into the problem with extraction shooters as a genre which is that it only exists as a contrivance to put players into lobbied instances
in an actual video game you wouldn't just be spat out in the middle of the wilderness or at the edge of an urban sprawl to forage until you decide to sit at a designated exit spot until a timer ticks down you would physically enter and exit a safe zone like a communal base between outings
but you can't have that without running persistent world servers all the time like its dayz or something if its going to be multiplayer so we're stuck with the extraction trend to keep this particular flavor of treadmill game going

>>714374227
>It's just a shooter with objectives
No it's not you dumbass. Lots of shooters have objectives, the gimmick in these games is you only get to own the loot that you carried to the extraction point. Everything else is lost, including your own equipment.

>>714362385 (OP)
Too many of them are forgetting the gun autism, they don't need to go full tarkov but there should be something, Marauders was sort of starting to realize this before they gave up

>>714362385 (OP)
>Well, you have to do a big PvE grind, and then you get ganked by other players and lose all your stuff. Wait, where are you going?
Ultima Online came out in 1997.

It's simultaneously funny and sad to occasionally check the Marauders reddit page and it's just a new post every few days of "guys are they ever going to update the game again???? where did everyone go????" Just a bunch of delusional family members hoping poor braindead Timmy will somehow recover from his vegatative state

Come home, white man.

>>714364739
>rght before Arc Raiders.
its looking like early 2026 while arc is out october this year

>>714378278
>SWAG and Realism permanently stuck on 3.10
It's over...
>>714378376
If 1.0 was going to be 2026 I think they would've added new patches past August to the updated yearly roadmap, and I don't think they'd do a super niche hardcore wipe for 6+ months
I think 1.0 in September or October is the most likely outcome, at which point ARC is going to be cooked alive

>>714362385 (OP)
a hobby of mine is keeping up on ukrainian language war propaganda on youtube and tarkov is a pretty sneaky recruiting tool for young men in the region. by focusing on the logistics, minutiae of a kit, etc it gives the impression that frontline combat is controllable for a skilled operator as opposed to the numbers game it really is. the game even mirrors their combat tactics, wherein a small team is literally dropped off in a pickup truck in an active combat zone

>>714378784
It's wacky seeing how many USEC/BEAR patches you spot on the kit of guys photographed in Ukraine on both sides. This game really is our generation's COD in terms of the impact upon young men's psyche and their interest in guns and military culture

>>714362385 (OP)
>Oh man, it's my brand new time in X! Time to see what's up...
>Killed by AChoo!Sniper420xxDankKlanxx
>But I never even got to play... Huh?
The average normalfag will bounce off the genre unless you put the mechanics in the fucking back. Then they can't refund it.
>Dune: Awakening
>Endgame area is literally an extraction shooter with open PvP for rare resources / vehicular theft.
>Lose your Ornithopter? It's gone forever faggot, enjoy crafting a ton of resources to make another one.
>Worse still if that was your means of airlifting loot. Double worse since you'll either die by PvP or by sand worm since lol ground travel suicide.
It's not for everyone, thus no broad appeal.