Thread 714370543

Cherrypicked

>>714370543 (OP)
Whats the Difference?

>>714370543 (OP)
>UE3
>runs at 30 fps on your 5080
>UE5
>runs at 30 fps on your 5080
pottery

>>714370543 (OP)
the difference is the artists not the software.

>>714370543 (OP)
>Quality of engine goes up
>Quality of people working on it goes down

this has to have a name

>le'me buy a new graphic card to play the new stuning lookin games.

Kek.

>>714370886
>UE3
runs at 300+ fps on a RTX 3060
>UE5
>runs at 30 fps on a RTX 5090

>>714370543 (OP)
Devs are retards.

>>714370964
>quality of engine goes up
This is bait

>>714371169
only because you dont understand how it works

>>714371169
It is, UE3 was a heavily consolized engine that relied only on baked lighting, to some degree it was worse than UE2

>>714370678
every place in e33 looks like that. harsh contrast up close, smoke and fog and low contrast starting from 3 steps away.

>>714371169
Look pal, you can shit on UE5 for many things but outright claiming that 3 is better is retarded

>>714371407
Baked lighting is le bad because:
PLEASE BUY RTX JENSEN 5090 THE MORE U BUY THE MORE U SAVE

>>714370964
IIRC one of the known programmers made fun of this saying something like "If you had 100 times faster processing you'd make 101 times slower product", I wonder who it was, Torvalds maybe

Idiots ITT will try to make non-lobotomized people believe that the lack of visual clarity and all the bugs around every corner in RTX Remix games is somehow better than the lighting seen in the original products

>>714370678
This. You can do it in reverse and cherrypick Borderlands 4 but that would be against the narrative for UE5 and Gearbox studios not putting in an effort because they are woke or something.

>>714371795
>RT is the reason why devs can't balance volumetric fog
You're not berry smart

>>714371407
>>714371580
baked lighting has drawbacks but afaik none of those *really* matter for the end product a lot of time. like there's no reason why a generic room with static light sources would need dynamic lighting. afaik it just comes down to speeding up workflows and trying to make something look good by "brute force" without having to rely talent. take >>714371162 for example. there's nothing really interesting or beautiful about it. it's just a generic real life scene but there's enough draw distance, detail and graphical middleware stacked on top of it that it can look just enough to make a thirdoid think it looks good. the fricken batman pic from OP looks better than that tech demo

>>714371328
>>714371407
>>714371570
My identity is formed by which products I consume
I am become goy, destroyer of ethos
Worshipping brands is my calling

>>714371416
looks nice to me

>>714372242
Nobody cares about you

>>714371897
Oh, why is this ratchet&clank2016 screenshot in this thread, and why is its brightness blown out so much? Also what's with the blur all over?

>>714372521
Think again sweetie, this is an UE5 game

>>714372521
what blur

>>714372238
Yeah sure, and crysis also "looked like shit" there is nothing interesting in crysis, its just a tech demo. Retard, tech advancement is only good if its goes hand to hand with artistic vision allowing for new things and even new gameplay elements. Matrix tech demo is the biggest advancement in real time rendering since fucking crysis. And scene like this is ONLY possible in UE5. Because nobody else is innovating at the same pace and its not close, and thats why I saw devs are retarded for now using this tech properly or at all. Or let e put it this way imagine batman game you love but with newest tech on top of a great art direction. Dont fucking confuse the two.

Oh I just realized the entire thread is just Ranjeet samefagging

>>714373418
yep

>>714372291
We're 100% black.

>>714371993
Fog? Fog's used for a different reason and mainly because you can't use high fidelity PT outside of a very tiny radius.
What I mean by visual clarity is that you can't even do a basic thing like move your mouse and get good visuals because everything breaks apart. In Arkham Knight, you are fighting 10s of enemies at once and moving around in a very erratic manner, and you do not see a single visual bug occur.

>>714373809
Because the camera is aiming at the ground the moment you look above the screen space reflections will break

>>714372654
>woketard attempting to make a point

>>714370543 (OP)
I hate the antisoul gas
>I hate the antisoul gas
I hate the antisoul gas
>I hate the antisoul gas
I hate the antisoul gas
>I hate the antisoul gas
I hate the antisoul gas
>I hate the antisoul gas
I hate the antisoul gas
>I hate the antisoul gas

People forget that Arkham Knight was a total disaster on PC that they even had to take it off of stores. Its easy to look back now and say its better but at the time it was a terrible port.

>>714373069
>there is nothing interesting in crysis
Crysis simulated an awesome amount of its vegetation in real time (but not the biggest trees, alas) and also had incredibly dynamic combat on top of that.

>>714370543 (OP)
>AAA title from one of the best developers to ever exist > some AA game from a bunch of french nobodies and whoever they outsourced shit to

>>714373935
>bot response
BAK doesn't even use SSR. They have a custom system along for dynamic elements along with cubemaps.

>>714373992
No argument + cope + you'rebmalding

>>714370543 (OP)
Both were shit at the time.

>>714374105
Based.

>>714373637
Me too.

>>714374137
They didn't forget they are just underage faggots.

>>714370543 (OP)
the anti soul gas readings are off the chart!

another episode of the game everyone shat on at release are back like cucks to praise it and use it as a standard to rally behind?
the publisher and devs had to apologize as total colon cancer cried about the rain textures
lol
what a fucking delusional ass world we live in when e33 pure fucking asset flip slop gets called goty

>>714371169
think of it this way
>you are given something that's hard to work with so you have to learn to make it work, meaning you have more technical knowledge about that thing
vs
>you are given something that's easy to work with and even automates tasks that were previously hard, so now you don't have to learn the ins and outs
it's like what ai has done to coding. You can become a better programmer now more than ever because you have so many tools to learn but ai automates it for you. Say you want to make a small program to automate a task. Before ai you had to learn so much shit just to do it, now you just do a prompt and learn nothing

>>714370543 (OP)
For me it's UE4

>>714379375
/v/ will praise any garbage.
>I like this game, so it's flawless! How dare you criticize it, reeeeee
Every single time.

>>714377162
explain what u meant with those 2 borderqueer pictures, woketeard

>>714380374
Okay but E33 is basically flawless though

>>714381671
Not on a technical level. That part of the game is shit.

>>714381671
>shit gameplay
>shit visuals
What the FUCK do you value in a game

>>714381821
bruh the fucking cutscenes when they go up close with the faces. i unironically missed what happened during a pivotal moment in act 1 because the framerate dropped so fucking low. its like the cutscene partly skipped and a lot of things simply didnt go off. did they not QA this at all?!?!?! why the fuck does the performance drop from 60 before framegen to sub 20 when it goes close to someone's face ... when theres less shown?? actual wtf.

>>714370543 (OP)
Arkham devs/artists were really good at what they did and knew ue3 so well they could bend it to their will.
E33 is an indie store asset game. It's not fair to hold it to the same standard as a game made by industry professionals.

>>714370543 (OP)
UE3 is great. Rising Storm 2 is UE3 and it still looks better than most shooters

>>714370543 (OP)
Remember when people bitched a out UE3 when Gears of War was being developed? A dev just needs to figure out how to utilize UE5 to it's full potential.

>>714383054
Gears has always been a pretty solid showpiece for unreal, E-Day taking a million years to come out is rough for its rep

>>714382308
I wish I knew, during those cutscenes you still get awful looking hair and shadows.
I even disabled DoF and other cinematic shit via mods and that didn't help with performance.
For me it drops to around ~40FPS 1440p native High/Epig in those cutscenes on 7900XT. Settings also don't impact performance almost at all once you go below High so you can't turn potato mode to greatly improve framerate. I still get a lot of ghosting with TSR
Game stutters despite nothing happening on the screen because fuck you.

lmao

>>714370543 (OP)
It's literally a difference of different light sources all over the place. For example this is tekken 8 which is on ue5

>>714384652
I see...

>>714384652
forgot the vid

>>714384652
anon...

>>714371416
>harsh contrast up close
nigga it's all dark as fuck up close

>>714383054
Gears of War on PC was unplayable.
X360 was powerful machine when it came out, unlike current gen cucksoles.

>>714384967
Interesting, I only ever played it on a 360. I'd argue UE3 didn't come into it's own until Arkham Asylum, UE5 just needs it's Arkham Asylum which hasn't happened yet.

>>714370873
The main advantage of UE5 is Nanite(automatic LOD) and Lumen(global illumination).

Nanite automates geometry LODs so the developer has less work to do and the player will notice less LOD pop-in. In practice it typically means worse performance and in many cases stutter as the player traverses the map.
Lumen also takes work off of the developer and provides fully dynamic lighting and shadows, but it's a huge performance hog and introduces temporal ghosting.

>>714384839
Technically it looks nice but the background is way too cluttered and noisy. It just makes it harder to see that the characters are doing.

>>714384967
Some of that was the fact that most PC users still had HDDs and single-core CPUs back then.
The 360 also had an SSD but it could stream data from the disc as well.

>>714384839
>still doesn't look any better than Arkham Knight
it's joever we just can't beat decade old visuals. the tech doesn't exist

>>714385282
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdSSeaolJv4
Here is comparison between versions, x360 and PC of that time for Gears of War.

Arkham Asylum ran well at least on my PC but I didn't play it at launch.
It was competent game and it clearly inspired too many games.

>>714370543 (OP)
Arkham Knight was made with magic.

>>714386038
The point is that this kind of lights all over the place is an attack on senses, your brain registers it as a lot of shit happening & looking impressive, and that's what the top of >>714370543 (OP) is, remove the lights and nothing on that batman screenshot look good by today's standard

>>714386198
>The 360 also had an SSD
Nope, it was shitty HDD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-n1ImXqJj8

>>714370543 (OP)
>>714370964
it's like comparing npc interactions for vampire bloodlines and starfield
bloodline looked better because it's all manually handcrafted per actor per script, meanwhile the other one is technically more advanced but looks shittier because they let it mostly automatically generated

>>714386868
So simply put
>Soul vs soulless

>pic is unreal engine 3 in-game
We never needed anything else.

Unreal 4 looks also so good that people think Lies of P is a good example of an "optimized UE5 game"...because its a UE4 game.

>>714386207
Are you blind or dumb? The textures look so much worse in that batman game

IT'S TIME TO RETVRN

>>714387646
Lies of Pinocchio ran better than the majority of UE4 games.
I was surprised by that.
But at the same time the environments were very static and corridor-like.

>>714374105
GREEN

Is it me or did unreal 3 have more soul than the later versions?
I say PBR has a lot to do with making it feel soul less

>>714371407
what’s up with retards shitting on baked lighting?

>>714387646
Thief 4.

>>714388708
Consumer end? Retards who think that old = bad
Dev end? need to rebake everything if you want to change even a small part so it requires far more and better long term planning and management.

>>714387979
can we just return to UE2, the last good one

>>714384839
Looks worse than ttt on ps2

>>714388871
>it requires far more and better long term planning and management.
So don't be a retard and plan it better

>>714389173
The games industry is all women now and they can't plan anything beyond their next tinder date

>>714389173
I'm just giving you the reasons why bro. I wish devs would stop being retarded but here we are.

Any competent studio will ship their own UE since it's gonna be modified a bunch. Just like Arkham was.
CDPR will redeem UE5

>>714370543 (OP)
Am I the only one tired of UE slop?

I could recognize this fucking engine since UE2, theres always a weird plasticky "feel" to it and the lighting contrast is too harsh

>>714389683
I don't have any trust in CDPR, they lied too many times.

its kind of crazy the industry has literally devolved to the point that the biggest engine is EASILY the worst. like its actually impossible to make UE5 look good. its a grainy fucking pixelated mess, that needs some kind of upscaler to undo the absolute mess it creates. its wild. and devs will shill for it for some reason - presumably because it automates most of their job so they want to gaslight people into thinking the engine is great.

its why they hate baked lighting. it was work.

>>714370543 (OP)
What you don't realize is that Arkham was made by a team of 1500 people, 800 of whom were artists.

>>714370543 (OP)
What legitimate improvement was there in UE5 that required an entirely new engine compared to UE4?

>>714390182
Nanite. Which will be unfucked in UE6.

>>714389884
I don't care as much if the game looks bad if it at least runs well, but we get the worst of both worlds.
Aside of obvious ghosting and lumen artifacts pic rel runs quite well.

>>714389018
I dare you to make a head to head comparison webm

>>714390008
Also wasn't AK notoriously broken on release?

>>714389753
>could recognize this fucking engine since UE2, theres always a weird plasticky "feel" to i
You're not alone. For me it became much more obvious after ue3.
Engine is fucking trash. Cry engine is much better.

Even to this day Arkham City looked absolutely amazing for a fucking PS3 game (running in 4k on a PC tho).
And Arkham knight is one of the best looking PS4 games hands down (only beaten by the likes of Uncharted 4 or Last of Us 2 etc and very few others).
E33 still looks great with all that said , but Arkham knight was a true work of art for a decade old game

>>714390008
Now games get made where 800 out of 1500 are pajeets.

>>714372654
>Looks barely better than Borderlands 1/2/3
And in reality it will look worse than them due dogshit temporal AA that blurs everything

>>714390340
Dont listen to that retard, anyone with a working set of eyes would know Tekken TT2 looks like absolute TRASH compared to Tekken 7, let alone T8

>>714382378
The game made by those "industry professionals" was borderline unplayable at launch and released as a broken mess

>>714371162
Devs are saars, chinks and women. Competent devs and artists got chased out of the industry

>>714391332
Competent devs were too expensive for modern slop development.

>>714386218
I remember when I did an SLI setup just to enable physix in Arkham Asylum

>>714390808
BL4 actually looks kind of identical to 3 but they've blown out the settings on their shitty cartoon outline shader so it actually lowers the fidelity. It still has higher requirements because it's open world and they are want to maintain fast load times. Still shit

>>714391332
Competent software devs got snapped by Google, Nvidia, Amazon and so on to actually do the R&D to make the tools the jeets use to make shitty games.

>>714370678
>Cherrypicked
Nh, it's lumen, I believe.

>>714370543 (OP)
>no gas
>gas

ue3 is better

>>714371407
Is there anything in UE3 that you can't do in UE5? Do you HAVE to use nanite & lumen in UE5? Can the Arkham games not be made in UE5 by the same methods used in UE3?

>>714370543 (OP)
>the competency crisis isn't real

>>714398281
You don't have to, but it's a hassle par excellence to avoid it. No one bothers, as normgroids will buy it anyway. Markham used a very custom version of ue. Cdpr tried redengine and failed miserably and ultimately switched to ue.
Don't forget that game dev is dependent on Jr level talent that can be exploited. Literally their core business model.

>>714401526
It's a bit more complicated in this case. Ue5 could look good, but then it would be more complicated to use, hence epic made it as it is.

>>714370964
Enshittening

>>714390619
I agree

>>714385543
>In practice it typically means worse performance and in many cases stutter as the player traverses the map.
Nanite isn't really the problem with traversel stutters, that's more of UE having shit streaming and take a lot of dev time to not make it a mess.
Performance is a wild card, Nanite has an upfront cost but scales up really well, but unless you are hitting a certain threshold it will just outright have worse performance.
>huge performance hog and introduces temporal ghosting
Lumen is a cunt to work with and really requires tweaking console variables to balance out both performance and artifacts.

>tfw the only semi-decent running UE5 game was due to the devs stripping out a lot of the UE5-specific shit, using an nVidia-specific branch of the UE5 engine, and customizing/writing a lot of the backend themselves
They somehow got it running on a PS4 well after the fact too, although it's limited to 30fps.

>>714402819
The issue is Epic really wants UE to be the "everything" making it less ideal for everything ironically.

>>714398281
Later versions of UE3 supported DX11, so no, not really. Long as you actually have software engineers that know how to add in any features you may want that don't already exist. But if you're using UE, odds are you don't have one, hence the state of how poorly UE5 games run.

Pretty sure Khazan is on UE4. Good-looking game but a pain in the ass to take representative screenshots of anything in it because fights are 100% up your ass the whole time.

>>714406643
It also doesn't help that a lot of the games being shipped on UE5 are on older engine versions which run really bad compared to more recent versions.

Open World was a mistake

>>714386198
>360 also had an SSD
what
do consoles nowadays even have an ssd yet?

>>714407504
A massive one. Fuck the muh seamless open world meme

>>714370543 (OP)
For whatever reason nobody remembers that the PC version of Arkham Knight was so terrible on release that they took it off the market for over a year, quietly put it back up unfixed, and then only after a few more years were people able to brute force it to run okay.

>>714372654
>background objects 30 feet away cloaked in a thick gas
That's just not how light works and it will never look good

>>714407337
The Finals was also on an older version of UE5, and the performance hasn't really changed despite recent upgrades to 5.3. Granted they just overhauled the destruction today so falling buildings can now also destroy other buildings in the process, which makes my sledgehammer happy.

>>714407543
Xbox Series S/X and Playstation 5 do. Finally.

You can still make a game in UE5 that's using like 95% of the same code as UE3. Devs just choose not to.

>>714384967
>Gears of War on PC was unplayable.
I had zero issues playing the original GFWL GoW1 on my PC of the day, which was mid-range spec for the time. Only thing that was ass was locking part of the multiplayer behind the XBL paywall.

>>714407991
Pretty sure they also don't use any of the new rendering features, I could be wrong, but that's where a lot of improvements have been.
I do applaud them for knowing what they want to do instead of fully committing to shit that doesn't help their project.

>>714408114
oh yeah I remember now, they made such a big huge deal with the ps5 having an ssd back then lol
it was supposed to be even better than a computer ssd (for some reason)

>>714408350
The only things 'new' to UE5 they use are the Meta Humans for the player characters (which more and more devs are doing, and it sucks), and a customized software version of Lumen (mostly nVidia's work on that branch they use) to deal with the rendering for lighting changes during destruction, fire, and volumetric smoke.

>>714408469
There's basically a separate, dedicated chip on the PS5 that handles loading rather than going through the CPU which is why PCs can't replicate it. It's is technically faster for it's specific purpose but in practice it doesn't matter when comparing overall speeds with PC.

>>714408626
Oh alright
Still pretty neat and glad to see some devs not being completely retarded.
Technically metahumans has been around since UE4 but I'm just being nit picky.
>that webm
Love me some good destruction.

>>714408984
>Love me some good destruction.
The best was the earlier days when the goo gun had some rather unexpected physics interactions.

>>714408626
> Meta Humans for the player characters (which more and more devs are doing, and it sucks)
I made the original front-end for MetaHuman Creator back in the day and I was like 99% sure that no one other than idea guys and people trying to make short films would ever use MetaHuman. The fact that AA/AAA studios are actually using them in shipped products is so sad because they look awful. E33 couldn't even get the head sizes correct.

>>714409246
kek

>>714409304
E33 at least had the right idea of trying to use it as a base for sculpting something original into it (UE5 should support that natively vs. the workarounds they had to employ), that way they can leverage the existing rig/animations vs. doing it all from fucking scratch.

>>714408126
You just had no standards back then. Check the video I posted here. >>714386218

>>714371407
Baked lighting is good actually

You get 99% of the effects of global illumination and path tracing with 1% of the performance required.

The only downside is that it isn't dynamic, but you can cover up the lack of dynamism with partial global illumination effects. The combo of mostly baked but some dynamic lighting is what every good looking and good running game does.

Every game where the devs are retards and opt to 'just let the engine handle it' the game ends up a shitpile of spaghetti code, with default implementations that hurt performance, and lazy design where 1/10th more effort could've made something beautiful AND performant but they just couldn't be assed or were too stupid (jeets and women) to do it.

>>714411114
The problem I have is the modern approach to GI is the game being 100gb+ as a result of it, since it's baking far, far more information per probe than a game of the UE3 era.

>>714411114
>The only downside is that it isn't dynamic
That and memory costs depending on how many lightmaps you need and resolution.
In UEs case they just have lightmaps which are a bitch to use for larger maps, and unlike other engines they don't have any of the more suitable light baking techniques like GI from environment probes or something similar.

>>714372654
gotta admit the cellshading looks nice and they truly nailed the comic book effect even tho it's cringe + millenial coded

>>714388708
RTX shills. There's nothing wrong with baked lighting when the rest of the game is static anyway.

what engine is modded skyrim with enb?

>>714411973
Skyrim is the creation engine

>>714412050
well creation engines fucks both ue3 and ue5

>>714370678
Nah, I just loaded up Batman Arkham Knight again for the first time in 10 years to see what it looks like today, it actually is quite beautiful and mogs the shit out of UE5 games.

Goes to show art direction trumps technology every goddamn time.

>>714402720
>Don't forget that game dev is dependent on Jr level talent that can be exploited

I'm not in that space; can you explain Jr vs Sr level talent in game development? Is Sr level game dev talent just being forced out? Or just not exist altogether?

ENTER

>>714372654
>Cherrypicked BL4 screenshot still has UE5 gas plainly visible
Lol. Lmao even.

>>714412302
>wet night time scene, one of the most prevalent of that gen and the one after it

>>714387695
oh yea you're right, those textures look pretty bad, that fake 3D effect for the damage suck hard too

>>714370543 (OP)
>the above image runs at 250+ fps on modern hardware at native resolution
>the below image runs at 36 fps with frame stutters at 1080p upscaled to 1440p/4k
just incredible

>>714407725
>>714415169
Cope. This is what UE3 looks like

>>714416012
>the above image runs at 250+ fps on modern hardware at native resolution
i think it could run at 16k 100+ fps on a 5090 with the gameworks shit disabled

>>714416163
>less than fucking 360p resolution
you need to kill yourself

>>714416270
You can still see the fog again, cope harder

>>714384839
But that level of detail can be obtained with UE3.5 and 4 with way less performance issues

>>714371162
this was baked and prerendered for months to look just right be the engine creators, there's no fucking options in the actual tools they give you to remove the anti-soul gas

>>714416639
People seem to forget that Guilty Gear Xrd was also a UE3 game.

>>714405903
I heard nanite not that useful with low amounts of polygons, like the savings aren't that useful if the developer can manage the geometry to a reasonable level, and if it's too low could be detrimental

>>714416958
Nanite's not useful for any level of polycount relative to its performance and storage requirements. Just use fucking traditional meshes with generated+touched up LODs like every developer did prior to UE5.

>>714372709
There he is, the sad fuck, whomst never hath seen a sharp clear rendered frame of video game.

>>714416163
>Rock cliffs
>Dead trees
Gee, it's almost like this area is meant to be barren and eerie or something.

>>714413984
Sr talent is costly and not needed for the most part. You basically needcode monkeys and a few guys doing supervision. Jrs are idealistic and easily manipulated. Game journos constantly stress how it is a "competetive field", so that Jrs are ready to work for 36k in a high priced area. The result is the absolute state of vidya we currently live in. Suits ruined gaming. AAA was used by studios to convince finance guys to invest in them. With AAA gaming the decline of vidya started.

But it took less work and the lighting/shadows are more accurate.