Just finished this. What's the /v/ consensus? Also which sibling was in the right?

Imo both were wrong. The ideal situation would be Maelle and her mother being mature enough to realize they shouldn't stay in the canvas any longer and just leave, wiping out the painted Verso and thus allowing Verso's world to exist without issues or interference (if possible).

In any case, I think the narrative absolutely stumbles in the 3rd act. Some might like the twist of "it's all fake", so might not, but the issue is what comes after.

We spent 80% of the game caring about Lumiere and the struggle of the Expedition, and then suddenly the story acts as if they don't exist. We don't get to see their reactions to not being real and instead playthings for the Dessandres. The game doesn't even properly explore their "humanity" or free will or consciousness, instead making an abrupt switch to melodrama between Maelle's desire to live in the fairytale world, and fakeVerso's desire to stop her from killing herself and making the real Verso suffer as well.

No one even cares what the Lumierians want. In fact in Maelle's ending it almost feels like she's mind controlling them or repainted them to be exactly like she wanted which raises questions about how human they were in the first place.

the /v/ consensus is that it's a game for normies and The Wrong Direction For Gaming

>>714381219 (OP)
It's fans have run all goodwill into the ground by being super fucking insecure and obnoxious like Redditors. A shame really

>>714381378
This.
The funniest part is how shills will write entire essays about omg muh story muh music muh characters muh atmosphere then will dedicate one sentence to "the gameplay exists I guess"
Lmao

>>714381219 (OP)
No one has played that game. People simply bought it to give the middle finger to Ubisoft and the AAA industry as a whole.

So which ending was the good one? I'm confused...

So which of the anon is pic related?

>>714381219 (OP)
>In fact in Maelle's ending it almost feels like she's mind controlling them or repainted them to be exactly like she wanted

Exactly, that's one of the many reasons it's bad. "See things as they are, not how you want them to be." Her ending is much less about Lumiere, and much more about herself. She doesn't want to grow up and face reality, and doesn't care that her brother's sacrifice is wasted.

>>714381219 (OP)
That's kind of the point, there's no good ending for the canvas, they were always at the mercy of their creators and ended up the victims of their family feud.
The player is a non entity in all of this, the only actual choice you make is at the very end but even then you have no control over the character's agency. So you as the spectator aren't told what to think about anything, you can think whatever you want about Lumière and the canvas people or the painters, you're only a spectator of this train crashing in slow motion.

>>714381219 (OP)
>some might like the twist of "its all fake"
You didn't play the game.

Renoir was right.
Maelle was cool until Act 2 ended, then she turned into a weird junkie.

>>714381829
>"the gameplay exists I guess"

The gameplay is basically an FF/Persona hybrid with Sekiro style parries so you can negate damage. Nothing groundbreaking, but well executed.

I’d say the game’s biggest problem is that the balancing is whack.

>>714381219 (OP)
>No, Papa. I’m staying in the painting.
>I won’t return just to be handed off to some average-faced man with an above-average bank account.
>I was meant for someone devastatingly rich and impossibly handsome.
>And I would’ve had him, too, if it weren’t for the fire.

>>714381378
>normies

>>714381219 (OP)
>Imo both were wrong. The ideal situation would be Maelle and her mother being mature enough to realize they shouldn't stay in the canvas any longer and just leave, wiping out the painted Verso and thus allowing Verso's world to exist without issues or interference (if possible).
You forgot about the faceless boy (real Verso's soul shard) who is in fact tired of painting this world.

>We spent 80% of the game caring about Lumiere and the struggle of the Expedition, and then suddenly the story acts as if they don't exist. We don't get to see their reactions to not being real and instead playthings for the Dessandres. The game doesn't even properly explore their "humanity" or free will or consciousness, instead making an abrupt switch to melodrama between Maelle's desire to live in the fairytale world, and fakeVerso's desire to stop her from killing herself and making the real Verso suffer as well.
Yeah, that's a very common criticism. The final choice boils down to "are the painted people worth caring about?" but the game barely explores their perspective, so instead it becomes "do you want Alicia to kill herself", which is much less interesting and picking Verso's ending is 100% the correct choice here, instead of the ambiguity they (allegedly) tried to shoot for.

Watch this interview with the writer for more insight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBMLuQXr6n4

>>714391689
>faceless boy (real Verso's soul shard)

who the fuck cares about some shard, completely random thing they threw in there. "look at this lil kid dont you feel sowwy for him?"

>>714392936
If you're gonna be like this, why care about anything at all? It's all just a fruity video game for overly emotional fags and women. It should be beneath a manly man like yourself.

>>714381219 (OP)
Renoir (real) was right about literally everything.

>allowing Verso's world to exist without issues or interference (if possible).
That's the thing, I don't think it was. Painted Verso does what he does because the soul is tired and wants to stop painting, but it's not like Verso wants to say goodbye and destroy the painting for the sake of it. He also realized Maelle was lying and knew how bad her ending would be for everyone but herself (assuming she brainwashed good part of Lumiere).

>>714393585
>Renoir (real) was right about literally everything.
I remember reading this news story a while back, basically a kid killed himself after his parents confiscated his smartphone, because for him it was his whole world, and he couldn't deal with that loss.

People like Renoir and Verso take a sledgehammer to every problem they see, it's unreasonable and callous, to say the least, and might not even solve the underlying problem.

>>714389146
Maelle died at the end of act 2. Killed by Alicia.

>>714391689
The tired faceless boy is the soul that Verso poured into the canvas when he painted it but it's not really a living being as much an allegory for the canvas having gone on for too long and having been perverted by everyone else in the family, rather than an actual person or soul you're suppose to feel anything for.

>>714394354
but alicia and aline would have stayed until their deaths in the painting (and btw, alicia seems to do 0 thing to ensure the canvas will not be nuked after her death, she also doesn't care about the lumiere people as long as they smile for her in her sims playthrough)
renoir was right about aline, and he is also right about alicia

>>714394354
Renoir has experienced the pull that the canvas exerts on people, he was taught by Aline herself the dangers of it, but it's not so much the canvas magic he's against but this one specific canvas that his whole family is now obsessed with and that is preventing them to move on.
Whether it's unfair to the people living inside is another topic entirely and I don't think he likes it any more than we do but with all the years spent inside he has kind of grown numb to it

>>714381219 (OP)
>Also which sibling was in the right?
Nobody was in the right

>>714381219 (OP)
The third act filters a lot of Disney adults who want a clean resolved ending. I appreciate the David Lynch'esque direction. Unresolved mysteries are always the ones that fester in your psyche the longest.

>>714395824
It's just a downer ending like in idk No Country for Old Men. Edgelords love these, but normal people would want to be congratulated for finishing a game, not scolded.

>>714396319
Tragedy is an extremely common genre in european media.
Nothing to do with edgelords, we don't take pleasure in watching people suffer but it makes for a far more compelling narrative and discussion than a story that ends as if nothing happened.

>>714389879
It's very easy to break even early on, I couldn't be killed by time time I reached the Gestral village and I wasn't even trying.

>>714394354
There's way more nuance here. It's not 1:1 but in your scenario Renoir would be a parent who knew very well the dangers of smartphone addiction and the teen would be essentially killing himself by refusing to eat or whatever to stay on it. He isn't callous, he understands the dangers, tries to talk it out and backs down despite knowing Alicia is lying to him.

>>714395329
Clea seems to be the only one in the family with her priorities straight desu.

>>714397635
She seems the most uncaring and vengeful of the bunch so I don't know, I guess it depends on how you view all of this.

>>714397975
That's what you get for rushing the story.

So, why did Aline paint her "fake" daughter as she was after the fire incident?

If the point of escaping into the canvas was to get away from her grief and pretend nothing happened with her "fake" family, it doesn't make sense she would paint canvas Alicia as a constant reminder of her daughters biggest fuck up.

>>714397975
I think she just moved on faster than the others, if she didn't care she'd have left Renoir and Aline to die in the painting.

The only story thing I didn't understand is what caused The Fracture in the first place.

>>714398609
I didn't and that doesn't change a thing about what I said. You can call it pragmatism if you prefer but to the canvas world she is a tyrant.

>>714399090
>to the canvas world she [Clea] is a tyrant
... What? You mixed up your names, didn't play the game, or don't know what the word tyrant means.

The people of the painting are clearly sentient beings. Choosing Vero's ending is agreeing to genocide them and their whole world.

>>714399063
Renoir and Aline's fight that trapped them both in the monolith.

>>714399063
The parents having a bitch slap is what caused it, it's all explained at the end of Act 2 right after the Paintress battle.

>>714399063
I assume it was the fight between Renoir and Aline until she trapped him under the monolith, after all the gommage is basically a mini fracture happening every year.
The Lumière song mentions "Renoir griffera", "trouble de rature, courbera eiffel" which basically mean Renoir scratched the canvas, made a mess and bent the eiffeil tower.

>>714399439
>>714399441
>>714399508
I guess I'm a little confused on the timeline. My impression was that Expedition zero (which ended with Renoir being trapped under the monolith) happened after the fracture.

>>714399423
The people of the painting are all mortal
Verso is immortal
Therefore his choice has more worth

>>714381219 (OP)
>The game doesn't even properly explore their "humanity" or free will or consciousness
Did you miss the part where two Lumerians are in your party through the entirety of the endgame events and fight to have their world and lives put back together? Christ, verso's ending alone speaks volumes to how they feel and it does it through sheer body language. Sciel approaches Verso with a look of understanding on her face. She wanted to live but she understands. She never expected the Expedition to succeed in the first place and already has nothing left. She understands she's not "real" and that there's a world beyond hers that is. She's happy for what she has experienced but understands that it's best for Maelle who she loves and cares for to face her real life instead of hiding away in a fantasy. Meanwhile, Lune is different. She saw the opportunity to get everything back and here it is being taken away from her. She has a palpable look of betrayal on her face. She's genuinely upset that she's going to be erased and has this look of "I knew I should never have trusted you". She's pissed. Then there's painted Verso who is tired of being yanked around as a facsimile of somebody else. He has his own will and emotions yet he's shackled to somebody else's shadow and he's tired of it all and doesn't want to exist with it. The world in the canvas may be a fabrication but its inhabitants are very real. Anyone who stops caring because "it's all fake" completely misses the point.

Also, both endings being "wrong" is also kind of the point. Each side has very valid arguments but either option results in somebody getting fucked over. Not everyone can win and it's meant to make you think about that. You're not meant to argue over who was right. You're meant to realize that sometimes hard choices must be made and good sometimes comes with bad, enforcing the theme of contrast between light and dark that the game's name comes from.

>>714399357
Didn't she engineer Simon into a weapon of mass destruction by seducing him and made her painted lookalike into a Nevron printing machine?
None of these seem like good things if you care about the painted world.

In another thread, I heard some anons say that both the ending are "bad" because Gustave (the protagonist) was killed and his role was subverted by Verso.

>>714381219 (OP)
bro youve finished this game 7 times in the last week surely youve been paying enough attention to the story to actually get it by now?

>>714399786
There wouldn't be any expeditions before the fracture. There would be nowhere to go and there was no issue. fracture precedes all expeditions.

>>714399786
Expedition Zero freed Renoir from the Monolith after Clea posed as painted Clea to trick Simon into killing the Axon in Old Lumiere, then Aline talked him into killing the curator, when he failed Renoir was freed from the monolith.

>>714381829
>"the gameplay exists I guess"
I have yet to see anyone praising the game just gloss over it like that and it's frequently one of the most praised aspects that people will go into detail on. Sure, it doesn't reinvent any wheels, but what makes it engaging is the execution and how well it combines all of the various systems it lifts from other RPGs. Combat flows well with each character having skillsets that not only synergize well with themselves but offer effects for other party members to synergize off of, and there's a lot of flexibility to which skills you equip that change the role that character is meant to play. Free aim is a cool mechanic that can add puzzle elements to battles, strategy to how you maximize a character turn, or just quickly kill trash mobs if you're revisiting early zones that you have vastly outleveled. Weapons all have unique abilities that can also drastically alter a character's playstyle and every single one is meant to be endgame viable. Same with pictos and passive abilities. The parry/dodge/jump system is a simple but effective way to keep the player paying attention and in most cases, it is engaging and rewarding to use. None of these mechanics are unique in themselves but again, it's how the game makes them work together instead of feeling like they were just tossed into a bucket together because they liked it in some other game.

>>714399850
Well thought out, well reasoned response. No wonder it didn't get any (you)s

>>714401176
The gameplay might be the best in the genre but there are so many good aspects to the game that it ends up being the least interesting one somehow.
But yeah, you're right, it's super hard to strike this balance of player freedom and the feeling of being able to completely break the game while still offering a good amount of challenge. Usually JRPG only allow you to break them in the post game but this one lets you do it whenever and boss HP quickly end up in the millions without there being any stat bloat on your side, instead it's all done by manually picking the right pictos.
The only system that I thought was completely unnecessary was the leveling stats for both characters and weapons as well as spending lumina points, I didn't do any of that (well except leveling my characters of course) in expert and I had no issue beating the game and all the side content.

>>714381219 (OP)
Both Renoirs were in the right

>>714381219 (OP)
>and just leave, wiping out the painted Verso and thus allowing Verso's world to exist without issues or interference (if possible).
Verso's soul is literally what holds the world together is it not?

>>714400087
Gustave is a representation of what the real Verso was like in comparison to Aline's painted Verso.

Everyone is vaguely brown and half the cast is girl bosses, I'm just tired

>>714381219 (OP)
The details on both endings are intentionally vague to let you decide which one you feel is better, but either way they're both pretty sad. Having said that, Verso.

>>714402096
Painted Verso =/= Verso's soul, the latter is the faceless boy that pops up in various locations

>>714402096
painted verso is a different entity from versos soul, which was the little boy.

>>714401176
>I have yet to see anyone praising the game just gloss over it like that
I see it frequently in your shill threads.
>>714389879
>The gameplay is basically an FF/Persona hybrid with Sekiro style parries
Yes, it's garbage.

>>714400087
Kind of. At the minimum Gustave was more logically equipped to deal with the emotional complexities of this situation. If he knew what was at stake for Maelle he could have easily convinced her to leave the canvas

>>714402453
Nobody in this fucking family has any job apparently, so drop your posturing.

>>714400087
Nah, thirdending thirdworlders are just coping. Gustave was a complex character and we don't really know how he would've reacted to all the act II and III information or that he could've pulled some miracle out of his ass. Alicia's in charge in Act III and she didn't care much about Gustave, unlike Maelle.

>>714399850
Hey anon you're asking people on this board to be able to read facial cues, knock it off

We're playing from the perspective of The Writers in the sequel right?

>>714403084
that's going to be the true test of it.
do the devs print money with a sequel that is devoid of the love and soul of the first game?
or do they do the honorable thing and leave the story alone and make a new game?

>>714399850
Yeah but have you considered
>Verso is a genocider
>I hate my irl family
>Alicia's ending just had budget restrictions
Therefore Alicia's ending is objectively right?
Or,
>Alicia is puppeting everybody
>The painting people are just AI
>It was all a dream
Therefore Verso's ending is objectively right? How can you not align with any of these 100% proven and undeniable facts?

>>714401978
Stat leveling was probably the weakest aspect, yeah. Its main issue is that it's best to min max in accordance with your weapon but because a player may take a while to settle on what weapon they want to finally use (and are still finding new ones even into the endgame) or they might just swap around frequently for variety, they have to let the player respec often to not fuck them over for making the wrong stat investments early. Maybe the better option would have been to just cut it and have each weapon only offer specific stats, just like pictos do, and they increase as you level that weapon.

Another complaint I have is that while dodge/parry/jump was a cool system that I liked a lot, I do wish parry didn't invalidate dodge once you had your timings down. Much like how certain attacks could only be jumped, there should have been some attacks (and a way to indicate it) that had to be dodged no matter what, meaning there might be instances where you just can't get a counter at all. A lot of projectiles, for instance, always felt weird that they could be parried and would have been a perfect thing to force dodging instead.

>>714403441
Early on going VIT/AGI/LCK is huge, but once you start getting pictos with big stat boosts then only the weapon scaling stats + might matter. The game showers you in respec items though, so not like it matters.

>>714403794
That it doesn't matter is the main problem here, stats barely matter from start to finish because of how abundant they are and how it's actually everything else that does damage or makes you not die.
It very quickly becomes a chore to assign your stats.

>>714381219 (OP)
I liked it. The combat is so simple yet so effective, makes one wonder why someone didn't try it before - or if someone did, why didn't it become mainstream. Great music and atmosphere, more games need to do the thing where you can see your ultimate destination from almost anywhere on the map. Got rather tired of being oneshotted by the ultimate endgame bosses so I cheesed these fights (Simon and the painting duo).

As for the endings, as painful as it is might be, Verso was in the right and the last scene in maelle's confirms it.

>>714402141
Not at all. Vero's Axon alone contradicts this theory. Plus, there's a lot of dialog and a few journals that indicate painted Verso is very much accurate to how Aline saw him. Gustave is nobody's creation and based on no one.

>>714404580
All humans in the painting are Aline's creations

>>714381219 (OP)
>In any case, I think the narrative absolutely stumbles in the 3rd act. Some might like the twist of "it's all fake", so might not, but the issue is what comes after.
I didn't see it like that. Verso and Lumiere inhabitants are recognized as existing creatures even outside the painting. I never thought the stakes were broken, but the game wants you to follow a path that is more related to the meta-narrative of the game.
The main topic of the game has always been about loss and coping, and Act I introduces you to life and death, and the reasons of the expedition. Back in the camp when Gustav talks to Maelle, he replies:
>See, that's the insidious thing about the Gommage. It's... Predictable. Almost gentle. It makes Lumiere complacing and accepting, but... The Gommage is equally violent and death... Death is just as final.
This was a testament that the imminent death shouldn't trump the will to live. Real life is almost like this, people standing still just because they are afraid about pain and death when those things will come to you anyway. There are things that must be done, even at the face of death.
Act II introduces loss and mourning. Suffering such a heavy blow withers the spirit, but the entire act serves as a reminder that life isn't over, you can still continue. And how? The conversations with Verso usually encapsulates what you need: Honor their memories, keep them alive in your head, realize that you are not alone in this, and that there are more reasons to live than to stand still and die. This is what allowed the expedition to do what seemed impossible: Facing the Axons, making their way into the monolith, and defeating the paintress. This is the culmination of what the game is trying to tell you.
Now, Act III introduces you with an entire new situation, but this time you decide how it ends: Either continue and accept things as they are, or going back to the complacent Lumiere trashing your life away and being unable to cope.

>>714404580
Painted Verso and the Axon are his parents interpretations of who Verso was and neither are truly accurate, none of the painted family are like their real counterparts.
Maelle felt like she never fit in when in Lumiere which is why she volunteered to join an expedition at 16, the only person she liked the company of was Gustave who she describes as a being like a brother to her.
He wasn't created with the intention of being like her brother, but he was nonetheless.

>>714402426
>The details on both endings are intentionally vague

Not even fucking close, what are you smoking? A caveman would figure out which ending is considered worse

How come no one has made a Virgin Gustave vs Chad Verso meme? Gustave was such a crybaby, a typical JRPG protag fixated on "doing the right thing" but scared of everything all the time

>>714406132
every time

>>714381219 (OP)
Fucking stupid-ass story and storytelling. The game vomits sad characters on you without making an effort to make you care then turns around and kills them off or going “oops they’re actually fake people!” All the while blaring sad violin and operatic singing in your ears for the majority of the game. Yeah the game is about grief and shit but it didn’t have to play grating sad music in the overworld from start to finish. Oh, the characters are having a nice drink and joking around the campfire? Here’s some sad fucking violin to accompany it! Dumb as fuck. How is this supposed to be rewarding and gripping for a player? This shit is nonstop emotional pornography and it’s exhausting to go through.

>>714404786
She may have created the humans but the humans also can reproduce on their own. Lumiere has existed for more than 67 canvas years. How many more, we don't know, but it did exist before the fracture. Gustave is only 32 meaning he was born, not painted as is, so no, he's not Aline's direct creation. Aline didn't even have the ability to paint people into the canvas after she was sealed at the top of the monolith. The only power she had was to paint a warning of who was about to get wiped out.

>>714403287
I hope for the latter, even though the painters-writers conflict is clearly a back door for them to expand on the universe

>>714405581
He wasn't created at all. He was born in the canvas.

>>714406182
If anything, Gustave is the chad. He was the one who actually wanted to save everyone and fix things. Verso is obsessed with saving his sister and freeing his own soul to the point that he’s willing to destroy the world over it.

>>714381219 (OP)
>Also which sibling was in the right?
Verso's ending is the correct choice. I didn't care about him, but I did it for based Renoir.

>>714406359
>when you sprint towards the objective like an ADHD maniac skipping all exposition and character building
I guess Sophie would feel like a literally who if you just run towards the harbor skipping all 20 of her quests/events

>>714406359
>oops they’re actually fake people!
Say that god made the universe. Are you no longer real? inb4
>but I did have breakfast this morning

>>714406925
Renoir is unironically the only character I would say is actually well written. The fact that he is either a villain or the hero depending on perspective is really good.

>>714406629
They’ll probably do the Final Fantasy thing of making it an anthology series where it’s basically self-contained stories that only share a few elements.

The sequel will likely be about other worlds— Painted or otherwise. It also probably won’t be about the Dessandres, though I could see Clea making a cameo.

>>714403084
>>714403287
There's a reason the title is Clair Obscur: Expedition 33, and not just Expedition 33. The devs have even stated that Clair Obscur is intended to be a franchise title. I do think that the intention is to continue building out the wider world and the painters vs writers conflict and seeing new stories in other worlds rather than just trying to build soulless additions to the world in Verso's canvas. I'd wager that yes, the next game probably will be from the Writers' perspective and we likely won't see the Desandre family at all. I wonder if we'll ever even see the conflict proper or if we'll just get glimpses of it in between the individual self contained stories of each game.

>>714407091
Why the fuck would I believe some religious nonsense, retard.

>>714407174
This line made me laugh out loud, too based

>>714407431
lmao

>>714407331
It seems likely that we'll see more of the conflict, they could be coy with the first game because it built up to the twist but it wont be a surprise anymore if they make a sequel.

>>714407331
It would be so hollow and empty. The world was crafted to tell this story. The story was told in it's entirety. For their next game to immediately be devoid of everything that made this game great would be so sad.

>>714407431
>but I did have breakfast
incredible.

They should've tried making Lune and Sciel better characters if they wanted me to give a shit about the painted people

>>714407331
Yeah, the next game could be something like Clair Obscur: Manuscript 42 or something. But the thing is, everyone already knows about the meta-twist, so they'll have to turn it into a premise instead, e.g.
>you're stuck in a nightmarish and ever changing world, created by someone's ink and quill, how do you escape this predicament without losing your life or sanity

>>714407752
They’re the weak links in the party development wise, but Sciel is infinitely more interesting than Lune. Verso, Gustave, Maelle, Monaco and Esquire could have carried the party themselves however.

>>714407091
can someone explain the having breakfast thing, I keep seeing it and I feel like it missed out on its origins because I have no idea what it means

>>714408270
have you tried Google
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-breakfast-question

>>714408353
thanks fag

>>714408270
the tl;dr is someone asks you a hypothetical (what if...) but you say that didn't happen because you're too low IQ to think in hypotheticals
>what if you didn't have breakfast this morning, how would that affect you
>but I did?

>>714408458