Who do some people refuse to play the meta?
>>714602642 (OP)Because playing the meta is the same as refusing to play the game.
>Gay little strawman scribble reposted 9000 times, completely missing the point of why people really hate metafags
Games get fucking boring if you play the exact same way non-stop
losers with self esteem issues try too hard at video games to pretend they have something to be proud of and fill the void of having miserable lives
it's like hipsters who gloat about being okay with shit like tank controls and preferring old games with clunky shit and lack of quality of life improvements
>>714602642 (OP)Because the meta isn't fun. Take Pokรฉmon's meta - you got a Pokรฉmon you like? Better hope it's one of the twenty-seven that are meta-approved, or you're gonna have a shit time against people who all have the exact same team with extremely minute differences.
>>714602642 (OP)What if what I'm playing just so happens to be the meta
>>714602642 (OP)With skillbased matchmaking, playing off meta shouldn't be a problem.
I play in a manner that lets me have fun.
Be it meta or not, the only people crying about not picking meta are those that aren't able to compensate the non-meta picks with their own skill.
>>714602642 (OP)Because people just wanna have fun doing their own thing. They bought the game so they should be allowed to do what they want. But, I wont lieโฆ not playing the meta is no different from being anti-conformist and it hurts your team (faggots who only care about winning). It all comes down to being a selfish dick head or being a team player that bows to metafags who only care about winning. The optimal choice depends on your personality
>>714602642 (OP)Depends on the game, but usually because that meta way of playing is a very distinct playstyle and off meta playstyles can offer an alternative or novel form of fun.
>>714602642 (OP)fishpole wizard did nothing wrong, all I see is him getting ganked by someone thirty levels higher
how is he supposed to find out how strong the fishpole build becomes if the enemy faction literally won't let him play?
>>714602642 (OP)Because I like trolling
>>714602642 (OP)>buy game>entire weapon archetypes are excluded from the meta>despite paying for them when I bought the game I'm not allowed to play with them because some fag on /v/ said soFeels bad.
>>714602642 (OP)People who actively avoid the meta entirely are special snowflakes who want people to know they arenโt like the average normalfag by playing builds that are beyond not being optimal but just flat out terrible.
>Incineroar with support build? eewww gross. I think Iโll use Magcargo with Physical attacks only!
>>714602642 (OP)There's a difference between the meta and the best option or even simply a strong build, the meta is just the easiest and most efficient way. It is often either completely overkill for the content and reduces the online gameplay to just matchmaking, or it isn't realistically better in any meaningful way for the average player and people are just whining for no reason about your build choices.
The reality is that people who pick the meta exclusively don't want to engage with the mechanics at all, nor do they want to experiment with them and figure it out themselves. Their goal is nothing more than efficiency and speeding through the gameplay, whether that's for grinding or farming purposes.
>>714602642 (OP)He's right, btw.
>>714603360>fishpole apologistEven if he wasn't getting ganked he's just going to be a worse fire wizard. Why would you ever want salmon ball over fire ball?
>>714602876>meta>same wayu wot m8
>>714604014>he is unaware of salmon ball's synergy with the scroll of gill-otine
>>714604337The meta doesn't change until an update, and when it does everyone just moves on to the new meta and then never changes off that.
Also broadly speaking the meta is roughly the same in most games since DPS > every other playstyle, and developers for some reason love putting damage increasing skills in a game alongside other ones as if anybody is going to use the rest except autists.
This happened to me back in an IRL MtG group I used to hit up. We played at this laid back hobby store in the town, unsanctioned, just a bunch of regulars coming up with jank, trying out weird brews, winning or losing, nobody really gave a shit. It was comfy.
Then the store signed up to host official tournaments and qualifiers for regionals and nationals and all that sweaty tryhard nonsense. Instantly, the vibe died. The place got flooded with metafags netdecking the same two or three over-optimized snoozefest piles. Every game felt like playing with the same fag, same decks, same lines, same soulless play.
And God help you if you actually beat one of them with your own deck, suddenly itโs a flood of cope
>thatโs not viable
>you got lucky
>I didnโt draw my combo
Nah bro, you just got outplayed by something that wasnโt lifted off a tier list.
Eventually I got tired of the stale meta and the salty manchildren pretending they're pros grinding for glory. Thatโs what finally killed MtG for me.
I only see people get mad at off-meta or different builds when they lose and the guy doing it is shit. For the most part it doesn't matter because in any given game most people are so far away from the level where optimum is needed all that matters is who presses buttons first
>off meta player sucks dick at game
>blames meta
>meta player sucks dick at game
>blames off meta player
tale as old as time
>>714602642 (OP)experimentation is fun
meta in games only amounts to like a +10% advantage which doesn't matter even in some pro environments and can be made up for with skill
that said meta issues is why only symmetrical multiplayer can be truly competitive
>>714602642 (OP)Getting spoonfed a build by youtube content creators and twitch shills isn't even playing the game.
Normalfaggot content creators don't even enjoy playing games. They just want to beat it as fast as possible to crank out more clickbait content and move on to the next thing to consoom.
>>714605668more like:
>off meta player sucks dick at the game>he doesnโt give a shit and continues on>meta player sucks dick at the game>shits himself horribly and seethes at the off meta player
>>714605469I see people getting mad at off-meta when they have incorrect understanding of the meta and they aren't on the same page as their team. That's usually the problem with off-meta. People aren't on the same page, but there's always two problems when teammates don't see eye to eye.
Anti-meta is more fun than off-meta. Shitting on tryhards with complete jank perfectly crafted to counter them is peak satisfaction.
>>714602642 (OP)What's the meta for the bratty little lvl 10 creature?
>>714602642 (OP)>I have drawn you as the wojak and me as the chad>therefore you are cringe and I am basedBecause meta is usually boring as shit.
>>714602642 (OP)The meta is without exceptions boring to play.
Not to say that you should gimp yourself, but there are definitely more fun ways to play a game.
>>714606884I don't think playing meta is always that boring, but the concept of having a meta is usually extremely boring, this much I agree with
>>714604651I don't think there's a single game with different weapon types that doesn't have that issue. Remember that "viable" and "meta" are not synonyms.
>>714604658>don't walk by the pond>completely invalidates your class choice
>>714607303Every game has a meta even if the game is single player there will always be a meta.
>>714607417>j-just avoid the sightline!fishpole wizard is the game's proverbial sniper, complete fodder in the hands of an amateur and yet the seethe he creates is just palpable after even one good game against him
>>714602642 (OP)Meta is boring. I'd rather play a gimp.
>game has trash weapons objectively worse than the starter one
>devs keep adding trash weapons with every update
>sequel has even more trash weapons
why do they keep doing this
>>714607645That conversation is a bit too philosophical for someone who would make that statement. Are ideas real irrespective of people believing in them?
>>714605806>playing warframe>every mission is filled with the current map wiping invincible meta picks>still somehow end up getting more kills and dps with my shitty meme builds>frequently get questions about why I'm using some warframes or abilitiesSomehow, every time.
>>714602642 (OP)My issue with it is
The process of playing a game should be
>get game>play game>figure it outBut the process of metafagging a game is
>get game>watch hours of youtube videos telling you exactly what to do while spoiling the whole story>alt tab to a spread sheet every couple of seconds during gameplayIts fucking gay that you're expected to do this shit because people don't want to put in effort if figuring it out themselves so they'll let someone else figure it out to the most min-maxed possible way.
shitters trying to use the meta but being too retarded to follow it is always hilarious
>>714608926it really depends on the game imo
only MMOs and the likes with low execution skill really go that far because the players "need" to clear the raid 12 times a day out of autism
>>714608548In case you don't know, meta in the context of gaming means Most Effective Tactics Available.
Even in a simple game like pong there will be a meta way to hit the ball
>>714607304>"viable" and "meta" are not synonyms.too many people think they are
especially wowfaggots
>my class does 2% less dps than another? WTF I'M LITERALLY UNVIABLE BLIZZARD HATES MY CLASS THE DEVS ARE INTENTIONALLY TRYING TO SABOTAGE IT AND FORCE CLASS SWAPS
>>714609465I think you don't understand why the question is relevant.
>Are ideas real irrespective of people believing in them?I'll go over yes/no
>yesThis is the interesting discussion. Then what is an idea that nobody has discovered yet? It should exists, should it not?
>noThen how the fuck is there a meta if nobody is actively thinking about it? How is there a meta if nobody believes there's a meta? Pure contradiction to the idea that all games have a meta. The more you think about the meta, the more real it becomes. If you don't about it, it simply doesn't exist.
>>714609465Also to add to your post while often it is the case, the meta is not always the strongest build either.
>>714602642 (OP)I'm not an autistic person that gets incredibly upset when my current hyperfocus "hobby" isn't being engaged in with extreme efficiency. I've seen metafags go datamining for minutiae and pull out fucking spreadsheets and multipaged essays explaining mechanics in exacting detail without a hint of self awareness for how they look doing so.
>>714609610It may be believed by morons but its not the morons who play the class
>wtf my class does 2% less damage?>now all the metafags will kick me for somebody else and I'll literally not be allowed to do content>because they want to use the metafag strategy that skips (mechanic) by being 2% faster at dps
>>714609705Playing to win is assumed in a discussion on meta, there is no point to invoking "what if people don't care about winning" in a discussion on meta
I genuinely don't care as long as I'm having fun. If it's fun to follow meta shit? I'll do it. If it's fun to just fuck around in the game? I'll do it. Anybody who plays video games without actually enjoying them and spends any amount of time complaining about other players is, frankly, retarded.
It's boring.
Nothing to solve; all the work has been done for you.
>>714609610my class doing 2% more damage for the same amount of effort as yours means I can make 2% more fuckups and still win. blame blizzard for making every single boss on a time limit because some koreans starved themselves to death trying to beat an MMO boss for 12 hours
>>714610176There's multiple things wrong with what you just said. Are you open to the idea of someone telling you everything wrong with it or do you just want to be correct?
gotta wonder how many of the "playing meta is always boring" people refuse to play fortnite or roblox
>>714610365Just disagree and give your reason you fucking pseud I don't give a shit
>"Wait what do you mean 2 + 2 equals 4? Why not 5? Even tough it's wrong? Why do I have to optimize and git gud? FUCKING META FAAGS REEEEEE"
>>714610465Those are kiddie games
>>714610493I see, you're completely correct.
>>714610532>I just want to fuck around and do whatever funny thing I think of instead of playing the same way every timeif you want to play like a child, why not play a children's game?
Poor anon didn't know that the meta way to shit on a pseudo-intellectual is to leave him schizo talk alone.
>>714610661all video games are for children. there is nothing adult about playing a video game
>look I know this is a boxing gym but I just find kicking more fun, ok? don't be a metafag
>>714602642 (OP)If the meta is too oppressive the game is just bad
>average DPS needed to win : 40
>average DPS of any normal viable build : 65
>average DPS on a strong build: 90
>meta DPS :123.85
>tryhards screech when you only do 122.46 DPS
>>714606884If a game stops being fun when you play the meta it's a bad game. If your enjoyment of the game requires playing off-meta because you need to feel special you have a personality issue you need to resolve.
>>714610751then how is roblox more kiddie then any other game?
>>714610752>the meta way to beat another man is to grapple him in a gay ass pose while on the groundThe meta is gay as fuck, I rather punch and kick is a lot more fun than gay grappling in the ground.
>>714610972Take pokemon for example, do you enjoy running the exact same pokemon that everyone else runs, with the exact same sets and using the exact same tactic, while fighting against a team which is exactly the same as yours?
>>714610752in this case kicking would be the meta
There are variables to this but the blame lies less with "muh metafags" and more often with the devs who put no effort into keeping things decently balanced. Of course striking that balance can be hard but I think for games where the meta can matter it's important.
>>714610971key word here is "average". that means those numbers can be a lot lower. I can play the strong/meta build and do half the average because I'm fucking around and still win, while the "normal" build ironically requires me to sweat way more then playing the meta does because I'm only a bit ahead
>>714610971This is something I learned when training AI to play games, and I won't go into detail. They did something quite differently than humans, which made them much, much better.
It's actually a real problem people in MMOs are rarely level-headed about. Take your scenario. Is the meta to maximize the probability to do >40 DPS or to maximize the DPS?
>>714602642 (OP)I don't really care about strict metas, but there is a baseline level of performance that should be adhered to in team play
>Champions Online>world boss Teleiosaurus is open to all players (rather than being tagged by a guild group) whenever it's up>has a DPS check that requires 10k damage per person in a 5 second window (not a huge number), so the goal of DPS is to do enough to make up for tanks and healers>if this DPS check is not met, it recovers a shit ton of HP, forcing a "do over" of the previous phase>this means that bad DPS can prevent the fight from ever finishingThus "Dino" is the only world boss that gets abandoned regularly after like 7 failed checks. There are often too many dead weight DPS that do like 400-800, or stay dead pinging "rez me!" during the check so they still add a full 10k to the check amount. They often suck so bad because their builds are thoughtless, which is exacerbated by the freedom the game gives in building characters. And there are indeed viable DPS builds for every powerset. Even something hyper-focused on healing like celestial can still pass the check with proper play and gearing. The worst part? You explain all this to them and they get super pissy instead of trying to improve.
>>714611180That doesn't happen because Pokemon is a good game. Even teams that are superficially the same typically have different tera types or EV spreads or what have you.
>>714611449>he forgot when talonflame and aegislash were on EVERY meta team
>>714611623not talking about Smogshit
>>714611763>not talking about SmogshitSmogshit IS the meta.
>>714609465>Most Effective Tactics AvailableWhere did this dumbass shit originate?
It comes from "metagaming", and has a similar meaning to "metadiscussion", aka discussing about discussions within a certain context. In the case of a game, it's about taking game mechanics/stages/etc. apart to come up with strategies, which might not necessarily be the most universally effective.
It's also used in tabletop RPG for those people who make choices for their characters(or the entire setting if you are the DM) tailored to gameplay, but might clash with the narrative.
>>714611856Smogon is a fanmade format, it's not related to the actual games.
>>714609465no it doesnt, the word meta comes from metagaming from the greek meta which means above or beyond something. metagaming because youre going "beyond" the game by using external information to influence your gameplay
>>714611229Well sure but I meant that usually an average decent player will be just fine with his average build.
Like in modern MMOs you usually have a set of quest gear that's good enough to clear the next dungeon until endgame when you start having more flexibility and variability.
>>714611241I'd say it really depend on the long term goal. If it's simply to clear the dungeon once in as little time as possible, then maximize the probability to do >40 DPS, but if the goal is to clear it as many times as possible then maximizing the DPS becomes more important.
That said IRL people ends up trying to maximize the DPS because they know you can skip boss phases if you do enough damage, and high DPS means faster clears, means you get more use out of expensive buffs and can clear more times before the daily reset and such.
It gets annoying when the meta requires a level of play so high the smallest issue fucks everything up, you wipe and everyone starts getting toxic, instead of just not being such a tryhard and clearing it just fine with a less sweaty tactic.
>off-meta fag constantly fucks up mechanics and does 1/3 of the DPS he could if he actually played his build well
>cries that he got kicked for not playing meta
>>714611930>implying no one plays singles outside of smogon
>>714612095Smogon Singles Pokemon is a bad game hence I don't play it
>>714602642 (OP)>he's never broken the meta and gotten hundreds of free wins from itshit strawmen, go suck a cock OP
>>714611930ok, try to fight a smogonfag with your team of repeated legendary pokemon and get fucked beyond repair because you didn't follow the meta.
>Bro u don't like playing against the same 2 characters/builds and strategies every single fucking match? Durrr ur a shitter d00d
>>714612245Rogue/antimeta is a form of metagaming
>>714612015Right, it depends on other instances, too. It's not just that one instance clear you're going for. Maximizing DPS is actually about spending less time on clears.
It doesn't change the underlying problem that you also point out. People don't actually have their eyes on the prize. They expect you to follow the meta when they're not even thinking about winning in the first place. That's an absurd environment.
>>714603013If you're enough of a faggot to be playing Pokemon PvP anyway then you might as well be a metafag, it's just as bad
>>714612494>They expect you to follow the meta when they're not even thinking about winning in the first place. That's an absurd environment.I'm confused what you're trying to say. If you don't want to win they don't want you in the group because you're detrimental to the group's goals.
>>714612385>Bro u use good strats instead of hippie meme shit? wtf?Really the fault of devs for being so horrid at balancing game 90% of options are utter garbage
>>714612714You're assuming the group has a goal besides playing the game.
>>714602642 (OP)this is why I don't play competitive multiplayer games anymore. everyone has minmaxed allt he fun out of them.
>>714612976multiplayer games in general are for low iq niggers and browns and insecure white troons
>>714612385It has an impact on coop/PVE gameplay as well. With stuff like First Descendant (around release at least) having all the important lobbies/matchmaking filled with map clearing builds that instantly killed everything the second they spawned, meaning you only really got to actually play in solo queue or with friends. Monster Hunter too has fallen into this pitfall with stuff like LBG taking up most of the online playerbase and effectively making the monster die in half the time while all but glitching out. Obviously none of these people are doing anything wrong whatsoever, but this commonplace outlook does have a notable impact on the online experience of most games.
>>714602876get smashed with a hammer, retard
>>714612824In most games this is a totally reasonable assumption? People generally are pursuing some kind of goal within the game like
>getting rare items>winning in pvp>clearing X boss
>>714611241>Is the meta to maximize the probability to do >40 DPS or to maximize the DPS?Always the latter, which can and often does lead to people doing stupid things that get them killed.
>>714612714An issue I've seen several time is the following
>boss has a wipe mechanic>this mechanic is easy to deal with but takes some time>it repeats 3 times over the fight>if you do the mechanic, you can win with a party DPS of 150, which only requires a reasonable good build you can get from anything relevant at this level>but if you use every single buffs and tricks in the game and play perfectly, your party can reach 600 dps, which lets you ignore the wipe mechanic, but it actually stacks so by the 3rd one it's crazy death race where the entire group is losing 30% hp a second so the healer can't catch a break and is drinking the expensive mana potions on cooldown, the tank needs to be spamming aggro and interrupts, DPS are sweating so hard it's flooding the arena>this makes half the classes unviable because they can't heal/tank/DPS enough>woops you had a lag spike and messed your rotation a bit, causing a party wipe and wasting everyone's consumables
>>714613486And you assumed I was talking about someone being antithetical to the goals? Clearly, there's a deeper and very convenient assumption there.
>>714613812But if everyone had played perfectly it would've saved 5 minutes!
>>714613812woops I accidentaly erased this part
>the tank needs to be spamming aggro and interrupts so he needs a build focused on cooldown reduction, which sucks in any other situation
>>714602642 (OP)Telling the guy that wants to cast spells to put on gear that helps him cast spells isn't metafagging. Wizard is a retard that can't read.
>>714612385my experience is that in most games the best character/build is also one that can do lots of things good on top of one thing really well, while the lesser characters/builds do one thing pretty good and everything else horrible
>>714613929Ok but if you're doing the dungeon 100 times because there's some 1% drop rate item you want you're saving almost 10 hours.
>>714613926If we are talking about off-meta players being excluded by meta players then that seems like it's what the convo is about? What is the convo actually about if you're not being excluded from groups or losing games then playing off-meta doesn't matter in the first place and the entire discussion doesn't matter
>Dude bro... playing off meta is totally based. I play it MY way and not like the others.
>You mad bro?
>>714611904Not that guy, but it comes from people assuming it's an acronym based on how meta is used in regards to videogames. It does mean the most efficient method and not actually the strongest build, but obviously that isn't the etymology.
>>714614198I think he wanted to be a battle mage, which isn't bad at all, they are flexible and fun to play, if he was the same level as the other guy then the battle mage would win by virtue of having more tools at his disposal given that he knows how to play them correctly.
>>714614539Ahhh yes, as opposed to the 20 guilds of 20 spell cleave mages, epic burn d00d
file
md5: 7e1023c7c3dc00e3362b9737c7ec4e56
๐
>>714602642 (OP)By the way this image was made by an ASSFAGGOTS player.
>>714614458That's the assumption right there, you are talking about that. I am talking about the absurdity of wanking about meta where it's not relevant to anyone's goals.
>>714614458>if everyone does it perfectly 100 times in a row you save 10 hours
>>714602642 (OP)playing the meta is BORING
if you start a game and your first instinct is googling "best build 2025" then go fuck yourself
Everyone ends up playing the same thing, why even have customization
I have a friend who does this and its annoying as hell, just play the game nigga you wont need a meta build until end game 100 hours in not at the start
>>714614938>I am talking about the absurdity of wanking about meta where it's not relevant to anyone's goals.It is relevant to my goals play a real class.
lol thatโs me on Dota 2
Thereโs 5-10 tryhard picks that absolutely crush any other characters like
tiny,axe,puck,wraith king, pa, shadow demon, juggernaut and like 6 others and I WILL play the other 90 heroes exclusively because all faggots so is watch YouTube videos on how to build and carry and I still rape then
>>714610661>if you want to play like a child, why not play a children's game?playing without following the meta means learning a game and coming up with your own way of playing it instead of following what youtube daddy told you to pick
>>714615794Forgot clinks and meepo
But at least with meepo you need โskillโ aka fags just using scripts these days
>>714602642 (OP)Because basically turning every race in a racing game with a huge roster into a spec series is fucking BORING.
>>714616172is just so healthy for games
>>714602876WELL WELL WELL
WHAT HAVE WE HERE
>>714615740I basically said if A then B, to which the response was that if C then D.
I even went as far as to specify that if C then D and B isn't automatically true if C.
Now we have a situation where I say that C is often not true.
Now you insist that C must be true. No ifs, just C.
>>714602642 (OP)>play Dota 2>pick off-meta Supports instead of the bog-standard Lich/FM/ES>literally 100% wr with some of themmeta slaves have no idea how to react to off-meta shit.
I played PKMN during weather channel and used an off-meta (Hail) team, similar situation.
>>714602642 (OP)They think they're rebelling against society but in reality they're hurting their teammates and rank.
>>714602642 (OP)Because I like having fun.
>play cuck of lelgends back when it came out>try some wild shit like ap tryndamere and actually stomp>now it's either patched out by gay devs or 25 year old shitskins will mass report me because i'm not playing like their favorite streamersMetafags are low IQ feces-colored "people".
>>714616605Based
They donโt realize that certain items specifically counter some of their gay build that they watched streamer #5432 replicate so therefore itโs good. Then you stunlock them to death Kek
Off meta picks would be way less of an issue if character building/selection had enough depth to it. The problem is the meta picks are literally just numerically superior and there isn't anything different enough to justify the off meta picks. Killing the enemy is the main objective, the meta guys moves just do more damage than the other guys. They stun you for longer, they have more powerful defensives w/e. Larger team games with more objective focused gameplay go a long way to providing niches other than just "the killingest guy". Pretty sure most devs also don't even try to make a balanced game and just have a revolving door of IMBA (the blizzard way)
>>714615794>PA>metaPA is outright the lowest win rate hero in the game currently
>>714611241>Is the meta to maximize the probability to do >40 DPS or to maximize the DPS?This was a genuine fucking issue with retards in MHRise
They'd put on the highest DPS sets and go online only to waste carts because those sets are made for runners doing solo-play and ai-manipulation.
A "comfier" set has less theoretical DPS, but based on the 1000 factors (monster ai, player inconsistency/skill, familiarity, other players, etc.) lead to higher DPS because you waste less time getting knocked around and healing.
>>714605192Melee hasnt had an update since it launched and the meta changed constantly.
>>714605213>place got flooded with metafags netdecking the same two or three over-optimized snoozefest pilesyes because every single person trying to execute the same strategy runs the exact same list and that well know list is the best and what wins every event afterwards, right?
except after a list becomes meta it no longer is the the best list as people adapt to that list and you need to modify it based on others adaptions.
but no, everyone must be running the exact same thing because you can't tell the difference.
>>714617247Itโs picked so much doe
>>714617286Everyone automatically assumes they are skilled enough to be the glass cannon.
>>714613228>LBG taking up most of the online playerbaseLBG usage never went above 15%/4th place iirc
Everyone is busy playing LS
>>714617334She is very easy and fun to play.
t. 600+ PA games
>>714602642 (OP)There's a middle ground between "meta-riding predditor" and "blind retard who had to drop out of high school to shovel horse shit"
but that's nuance, and modern /v/ is filled with browns who think "nuance" is a type of spice wypipo don't season dey food or rivers with
>>714602642 (OP)>achievement to get 5k kills with each weapon>includes off-handers like shields that only have single-target, long cooldown moves>refuse to power grind the achievements>just make an off-meta build that optimizes the weapon use>natural kills with the off-hand weapon are maybe 10% of kills, so about 50k kills would be needed per achievement>there's a half dozen of these weapons/achievements in the gamei've been at it for 12 years and still haven't finished a single one
my mistake is that earlier on i was using dual wieldable weapons like daggers and swords in the off-hand to do those achievements when i should have started with the off-hands from the beginning
Finding the correct way to play the game is part of the fun.
By spoiling that, you spoil the game itself.
>>714617581Meta is a spectrum, even if you get everyone to agree to play the mid tier stuff that will just became the new meta. It's the exact attitude that lead to Magic's current situation where everyone just wants to play Commander (with themed/random decks only, don't you dare play to win), it's a race to the bottom.
>>714617928Isn't magic's problem moreso the ever-poisoned brains of WotC and a bunch of normalfags flooding in with no actual knowledge of the game and don't like icky stall matches or mill dicks or whateverthefuck
I hate people who cry and complain when people are better than them. I saw a clip of people doing crazy shit in mario kart and all the comments were boomers saying its over and the game is shit now because people are able to do things they never will. IDK what causes people to have such a weak jealous mindset
>>714603776mon-hun was pretty notorious for this.
>>714602642 (OP)unless you're in a team with other people this is a nothingburger complaint
Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.
>>714618214Mon hun has like no metafagging at all what are you talking about? I only remember 4 HBG rooms in 4U for 140 GQ Rajang but those were super rare
>>714618046nta but its problem is that people don't seem to be able to separate the types of events they go to and what they play at them.
If you go to a competitive store that runs competitive events with competitive players who are looking to play at the highest level of competition then not bringing a highly competitive deck is just retarded. But people will bring their retarded shit and whinge they can't win and people are too competitive.
The opposite happens too and magic players are so fucking butthurt about it they had to make a different format instead of being able to be sane individuals and just saying X days at Y store are Z type of event.
no other card game has this problem.
>>714617443I said stuff like LBG, anon, but my bad for wording it confusingly. I just meant that everyone flocks to the DPS option, the one specifically crafted to engage with the game even less, because their goal is not the gameplay but clearing the mission faster.
I couldn't really find an official posting of Sunbreak usage rates, which I imagine has thinner margins, but this was base game rise in the year before. Logically if people were choosing these top tier weapons for their gameplay you'd see a similar disparity in Sunbreak, but that doesn't seem to be the case so the conclusion I'd say is most reasonable would be that they're choosing based on effectiveness.
Not that there's anything wrong with choosing weapons or builds for that reason, I'm just saying it is inadvertently going to negatively affect regular online play.
>>714618089Meta is about choices and number crunching, not skill.
Although sure, sometimes playing meta requires enough dexterity to perform complex tech, but that heavily depends on the game, in a different one it could be about playing the most braindead overpowered character.
>>714618267you have to min max or you're playing it wrong
autism is the only way
>>714618389LS is always the most popular weapon even when its awful.
have you ever considered the fact that maybe people pick weapons they think are cool and like and can do cool shit?
yeah, there are some people who will pick just for performance, which will skew the rates of certain types of weapons, but the majority of players are not picking solely for performance.
>>714618389LS is not popular because it has the highest DPS or because it's easy, it's popular because it feels good to the average person to play; it's a good midground of speed and power and you get to look like Sephiroth.
>>714617447Based pa enjoyer.
chaud
md5: 416ece781f56dab4106498f9320eb773
๐
>play new game with friend
>tell him i dont mind him being overleveled I wanna see the stupid shit you can do with endgame stuff
>NONONONO I NEED TO GIMP MYSELF ITS NOT FAIR TO YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU SAID ITS FINE
>>714617286>That subtle panchiraGlorious!
idm people playing off meta tbdesu as long as it isn't something extremely rarted
sometimes people just wanna have fun and only off meta shit offers that
>>714618350>no other card game has this problem.I've certainly never heard of any that did. Magic's got too many formats as-is that split all the cards in a way where the vast majority of them might as well be expensive coasters, you'd think that would piss people off but instead they want MORE segregation. Even fucking smogon has a community more willing to accept the expectations of its competitive nature.
>>714618267stop making games where the best way to win is the least fun way to play.
>>714604658Did you know you could heal and buff friendly bears by passing a salmon ball through them?
I use to do this build where I'd get four beasts collars, tame four bears, reel enemies into the middle of my four bears bodyblocking them, then spam the enemy with salmon balls to keep the bear wall healthy while they mauled the enemy
Now of course this doesn't work on most enemies, they have CC to move the bears or have a movement ability to get out
You know who doesn't?
Fire wizards
They have fire walk, but it gets interrupted if they run into someone. They can try to kill the bears, but I can heal them and put fires out. This hard counters them.
Between all the buffing abilities fishpole staff has you can make a pretty good beast army, not as good as druids but you're also getting killing the fire wizards every team has so it's worth it
This isn't possible anymore. They took away the salmon ball bear interaction, locked beast collar from wizards, and made flame walk go through enemies now. Because how fucking dare you build anything but fire wizard
>>714618606https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVKdPFLltyI
they would shit on miyazaki for how he plays his own games
>>714618437I don't think there are any games other than ARPGs that you can be a top player just by playing the meta, play any mmo or fighting game or fps or whatevers meta and youll never come close to top rank with just knowledgr. You are already too far gone if you think people have no skill and hate people playing well. Theres nothing wrong with playing a game as a casual
>>714618817This is the actual point of that quote in context but people misuse it.
>People will optimize the fun out of your game, therefore it's your job as a developer to make it fun when played optimally. If the player has to play suboptimally to have fun you failed as a designer
In a similar vein, seeing speedrunner/challenge runners play the game normally and being complete shit at it is always funny. It just shows how bad people are ay vidya when they have to think for themselves.
>>714619089Just saying that the topic isn't about which player is more skilled.
For all you know somebody playing offmeta could be doing it because they already became pretty good at using the meta and now wants to try other shit.
>>714619174Honestly disagree. This feels like railroading as opposed to encouraging various combos and a "meta" eventually emerging as a natural, not necessarily intended consequence.
>>714602642 (OP)>"Who do some people refuse"ESL faggot
>CRTL+F>"0 Results"The rest of you niggers are slacking as well
>>714602642 (OP)because you can't find out anything new (and better) if you just play like everyone else does
I'm playing wow tbc, 18 year old game, and finding new ways to do stuff
>>714619842racism will not be tolerated, faggot
Not playing meta is one thing but it's crazie how the majority of normalfags is utterly incapable of making a viable build by themselves. They do shit like beastmaster without pets, using a great club while leveling INT then whine that the game is too hard.
>>714619590eh, I tend to agree with Mark Rosewater (the guy who said all that shit) when he says that the promise between the designer and the player is that if the player tries to win the game with the things the designer put in the game, the player will have fun.
metaslavery is what happens when the developer fails to uphold their end of this unspoken promise, because he's the one who put all the things that are in the game into the game, and that includes the things that are not fun.
>>714602642 (OP)If its some sort of MMO team-effort game then you should at least be running a build that can pull its weight as part of the unit.
If you don't want to make that effort then just stick to single player games where it doesn't matter.
>>714619174there's no way for a developer to account for every possible synergy, exploit or player preference
>>714619842dude I'm just trying to have FUN with language, sorry I didn't look up a guide on the most optimal way to speak!
>>714602642 (OP)gotta be one of my favorite images
makes people absurdly angry and it's true, if you're playing a competitive team based game and you have no desire to even attempt to win fuck you for wasting everyone's time, play something else
>>714602642 (OP)I will play Twitch support in ranked and you will deal with it
>>714618557>>714618575>have you ever considered the fact that maybe people pick weapons they think are cool and like and can do cool shit?Uhh yeah, I said that indirectly. Those people would be the percentages who don't change much in Sunbreak, as in a say 20% drop for LS when the weapon didn't lose the traits you're both describing is a pretty good indicator that there's an alternative reason for those people moving to another weapon. The remaining 20% are the ones who likely simply enjoy the LS.
>yeah, there are some people who will pick just for performance, which will skew the rates of certain types of weapons, but the majority of players are not picking solely for performance.I don't believe that's the case because I've played other online games as well and seen the large portions of the playerbase shift usage rates whenever a new meta option is discovered or an old one is balanced while still retaining the same gameplay. You can literally watch the usage rates in Warframe change directly because they post the stats for it, after they nerfed explosive weapons Wukong's usage rate dropped 50% despite his actual kit not taking any direct hits (yet). Meanwhile Revenant jumped up nearly 4 times the usage rate when people realised he could also essentially AFK clear maps despite his kit also not changing during that time period.
But even if that wasn't the case, there's still the issue of the DPS race in regards to builds for individual weapons and the thought process behind that stuff.
>That period of DOTA 2 where OG did back to back wins at the International with stupid shit like Carry Io
Glorious days.
I've played games at GM in league and LEM in csgo, people almost never have a problem with off meta picks if the player performs unless it's shit that outright doesn't work if the team hasnt played with it before like bardinette's bard top. the problem comes when your teams gangplank onetrick decides he's going to counterpick himself first timing an adc top in ranked and has no idea how to contribute to the match as that class after going 1/8 in lane. similarly in cs, nobody cares if you buy an autosniper, they will care if you start doing "off meta" smokes that blind 3 of your teammates during a site push. TLDR normal games exist for a reason and a 700lp lobby with a queue time of 10+ minutes probably isn't the place for a supp main to lock in mundo mid.
>>714617315Melee is 1v1. In there you can play off-meta as much as you want.
In team games(aka OP pic) you either play meta or get kicked. The WoW player who played without shoes, or getting "unoptimal legendary" because you weren't maxed. Overwatch, especially OW2, makes your team lose if you for example main just Symmetra or Torb instead of picking meta teams.
Metafaggotry ruins fun casual gaming.
>>714620749can you say that again without lingo please?
>>714609931This is retarded and not true. I was big into FFXIV raiding during Heavensward which had insanely unbalanced jobs and it was always the paladins and monks who cried about how their job is unplayable and started leveling Dark Knight and Ninja.
Ranked Matchmaking and progaming in general is a cancer on this industry. I can't even play a multiplayer game anymore.
i use southern hospitality in tf2. i use default viewmodels and no auto reload. every single stream there's some little faggot who just started playing the game 3 months ago telling me I'm playing wrong.
>>714602642 (OP)>be company>can't design a game for shit so you take the PvP-pill>call your game "skill-based" when it's 100% reliant upon wikipedia knowledge>players solve every detail of the game in weeks>start hard-coding in otherwise inaccessible information via boilerplate>now you have probable cause to call metafags "cheaters" and ban anyone you want>invest heavily into "anticheat" and keep coding in other inaccessible information like EOMM>"totally skill-based don't you *know* about packet loss and the third frame of this specific attack">Tell the devs about exploits in their game, (which is the only reason high ELO/MMR exists)>"You have forbidden knowledge and were likely abusing exploits to find this">bans your account for *noticing* exploits>devs can't even play the game high level so they "nerf and buff" retarded things>"changed the amount of healing in a potion from 700 to 699 hp">"lowered the recoil on shotgun (strongest weapon in the game) by 12%">skill-based but it's actually a wiki game also anyone you don't like is a cheater and exploit abuserthis is like every single PvP game I've ever played.
>>714602642 (OP)>he plays games to win not have funMonkey brained behavior.
>>714602642 (OP)I will never understand metaslaves, Souls games are fucking lousy with them. What enjoyment do you possibly garner from fighting the exact same four builds over and over?
>>714618389>exclusively use the bottom 3 in every game (that they're in)>literally never even forged or upgraded a LS in my lifeI'm afraid I haven't been a very good host. You see... I am fishpole wizard
>>714621139Souls PvP is a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously
it should only be seen as funny griefing or somewhay fair invasions.
>>714602642 (OP)Devs can't actually do anything about metafags so they just install anticheat (does nothing) and use it to ban any metafag they don't want playing their game, while also using it to ban anyone that draws attention to any exploits in their game.
>>714602642 (OP)>using meta gear/builds>not just being Chinese and hacking to give yourself 9999999 wins the moment the servers go upfucking embarrassing
>>714621049>>714621483>devs ban people for playing the metaWhat game?
>>714621428Some of the most fun I ever had with multiplayer games was invading Darkroot Garden in DS1 with the fog ring on, hiding in the trees, and trying to shoot people off cliffs with greatarrows
>>714621428the secret sauce that makes souls pvp good is invincible backdash, guess which game was the only one to get it right
>game has a meta
>everyone follows it
>no one expects meme builds
>as a result you can do well just because no one expects you to use theoretically retarded item/skill combos
>>714602642 (OP)Holy ESL. But to answer that question this highly depends on two things, is the current meta actually fun with nuance and not in a MUST WIN MUST WIN way? Two, is the game designed around experimenting and trying new ways to solve a solution? TF2 dosent have a inherent meta that everyone sticks to unless you are a annoying compfaggot that screeches at random crits, but I can understand metas like CS2 where there are callouts and weapons everyone wants to go for, or something like smoke throws. Not all metas are created equal and some absolutely suck the life out of you but its all about the game and the context. T0 Metas in shit like Yugioh make me pissed cause 99 percent of the time it isnt even on skill its whoever has the biggest wallet
>>714602876So pick anti-meta hard counters???
>>714621776I know a guy who uses a meme whip build in Elden Ring and he gets absolute fucking mountains of metaslave seethe because he's actually really good with it
>i'm an innovator! I'm going to find the secret sauce that defeats the meta!
-guy running the dumbest build known to man that is actively throwing the hour-long game for the rest of his team, not viable or funny in any kind of way
>>714621776Similar to becoming a homeless vagrant griefer in survival crafting games and using weird tactics to blow up the giant guild's bases before getting kicked from the server.
>>714621620literally any game that has abusable glitches and exploits and PvP. They just ban anyone who uses or knows about the exploit, then the devs can't even reproduce the exploit so they never fix it. Literally google 'banned for abusing exploits' you will find hundreds of completely different games. None of these are hackers, just people who metafagged a little too hard.
>>714602642 (OP)People who strictly stick to metas are sweaty faggots who have no real world achievements or attributes they can take pride in so they HAVE to play video games as optimally as possible even if it makes them miserable because their self esteem depends on it. Everyone else just does whatever is most fun to them at the time because they only play video games to have fun.
>>714621980t. Bitter guy who never found the secret sauce
>>714622152Although the inverse is equally true as well. There are some people who simply REFUSE to play the meta no matter what it is and their motivations are the same as the strict metafags, except with a retarded contrarian twist.
>>714621980>actually find the secret sauce>"yeah, you're banned">*devs nerf every single secret sauce ingredient*
>>714621894But thatโs the point of ops image, people expect every strategy to be fine despite not giving a shit about strategy.
>>714621860if anti-meta is a hard counter, then it is most likely also meta, retard.
>>714622216This is going to sound crazy but most people just want to play whatever way feels the most fun to them and pay no attention to pvpsweat leaderboards and what is or isn't the absolute most optimal method
>play CoD MW2
>Shotgun can accurately headshot with hipfire at infinite range with slugs, but with slow bullet travel time and dropoff
>Having fun hearing people losing their mind on final kill deathcam despite getting bodied like 90% of the time by automatic guns and quickscope snipers
>Play MW3
>Shotgun can't even headshot at mid range
>Meanwhile quickscope snipers still run rampant as better shotguns because of auto aim and can one shot at close range on bodyshot
Fuck COD
>>714620863as someone who's played multiple games at high ranks, people don't care if you pick something off meta, even in ranked if you've actually played it before and are any good with it. people get bothered when you pick something that is off meta, that you have never played before, in ranked. since this completely fucks your teams ability to win against remotely similarly skilled opponents. People get even more pissed off if you're playing off meta shit while off role (i.e. a dps player in an mmo first timing as a tank and using crit damage gear) since you won't have the skills required to play that role at a competitive level in the first place and are effectively gimping yourself on top of that.
>>714602642 (OP)playing the meta is like letting someone play for you
A man choses
a dog obeys
>>714621776That reminds of a friend on an old MMO. The PvP meta was basically either nuking with a mage or stunlocking others with a melee class. He was tired of it so he decided to do some trolling.
World pvp was 3 factions in a 1v1v1 competition. He made a priest in each faction on different accounts and proceeded to farm himself in some out of bounds corner. Being a priest he could always revive and heal his alts, so he farmed himself to rank 1 in all 3 factions at once. When the season was over, the #1 player becomes the faction's leader so he set the taxes to maximum in all 3 factions and since he was in a solo guild he reaped all the profits.
>>714621040Southern hospitality is actually good though, it fucks up escaping spies and if a pyro is close ranged you are fucked regardless.
>>714603013Pokemon is a special kind of retarded because the actual single player meta is completely detached from the official competitive meta. I don't know of other series that intentionally do that.
>>714618389hammer always grug beloved
>>714622386Thank you anon, that's much clearer
>>714602642 (OP)If you can't trust an electronic gambling game, to give you an honest pay-out, then you can't trust a PvP game to give you an honest matchup or winrate.
>>714622278more often than not this just happens to playstyles that competitive players vocally dislike, not to "the secret anti-meta." usually that shit isn't even that good
>>714622278And this is why anybody who isn't a worst Korean living inside a net cafe should avoid LoL at all costs.
>>714622335Yeah, that's what I was getting at in
>>714622152
>>714618606I like to scale myself down for a friend because it's not fun for me, and there's usually some other playstyle I can try that I didn't do at that level.
>>714602642 (OP)>He can't beat the game with fish-wizard.Others have done nightmare/ironman mode on shovel-druid. This man has no excuse.
>>714602642 (OP)>He used a meta buildYou didn't beat the game
>>714621776This is incredibly viable if you play competitive card games. People cannot cope with new shit.
>>714622774not fun for me to be overpowered*
>>714602642 (OP)Metamancing often isn't fun and isn't needed outside of very specific missions, raids, or whatever content. Making something workable is usually easy enough and allows you to discover and use more content within the game.
If it's singleplayer, who cares? If you're playing multiplayer outside of a premade, at least do others a favour and don't blatantly throw as everyone wants to have fun.
>>714622550I can't say for web games, but electronic slot machines in the US are completely fair, people simply don't understand how they work.
The machines have a legaly mandated payout %, and in most states the "games" have to be pregenerated. So the machine actually generates say 100k game board that respect the winning odds displayed on the machine. Pulling the lever plays an animation while a board is randomly chosen. You cannot affect the game in any way, even the special bonuses, minigames and such are precalculated.
The catch is that the payout % only apply to money inserted, not to gains.
>>714622447tell that to every 3rd worlder 12 year old who started playing since it went f2p and gets their entire identity from youtubers. the SH also knocks sappers out in one less hit which can literally win the game occasionally.
>>714622278>>714622556This is the easiest way to kill a good game. Overwatch is a prime example of what happens when devs are tasked with constantly fucking up the meta for no reason every month.
>>714602642 (OP)reminder that this scrub player on your team is also the absolute legend that made 80% of the meta you're blaming him for not using.
Off-meta is usually bad, Anti-meta builds are fun and shows you understand the game.
>>714622989do you think GOATs didn't need to get taken behind the shed and killed
overwatch was a shit game from step one, strong tank and strong healing is the recipe for an obnoxious as fuck team shooter
>>714622556>every single time something successfully kills a jet/plane or helicopter in Battlefield even oncePain.
>>714602642 (OP)Because something is meta was a result of experimental play to begin with.
It becomes predictable and people learn how to counter.
There can also be multiple metas (Like in fighting games). There are also metas that can be discovered by continuing to learn from other characters which could result in a strat that can be either just as good or even a better meta only a few bothered to take the effort and learned firsthand.
Being a follower isn;t always the right course of action.
>>714602642 (OP)I will not use guides, but I will play in the most optimal way that I can find while playing. Anything else feels like holding back, which breaks immersion and therefore lessens enjoyment. If I happen to discover the meta by myself, and the game turns too easy and therefore boring, then it is what it is.
>>714622986one less hit than the jag* which is what they tell everyone to play with. that or the eureka, which tbf is a cool weapon.
>>714623178Eureka effect is great on maps that you can ninjaneer on and get a level 3 base inside of chokepoints.
>>714623082That's exactly what I'm talking about. Overwatch was already ruined by the time GOATs came around, GOATs was a thing because the devs had fucked with the game so much already by that point that something that retarded was now possible. The Valkyrie update was the end of OW and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the devs would continue fucking the game up no matter what happens.
>>714623108>NO STINGER>NO MOBILE AA>NO HEAT SEEKERS>NO JET RAMMING>NO FUN
>>714610316If you starve in 12 hours you deserve to die
Has the pic of the night and necromancer fighting the clown with dildos been posted yet? That's a good argument against meta-faggotry.
Note: There is a difference between playing optimally for the character/class you are playing as and meta-faggotry.
>>714623082eh, I think GOATS was more the symptom of the game being badly-designed with all the shields and hard disables.
If they didn't want people to pile on shields and disables and turn the game into a walking sim, they shouldn't have put in so many goddamn shields and disables.
then they solved it in the worst possible way via role limits.
>>714623557>then they solved it in the worst possible way via role limits.So play open qeue you big fucking baby.
>>714603360>ganked by someone thirty levels higherFishpole wizard has 1000x the play time deespite being underlevelled
>fish pole staff wizard was a very niche build that was really fun to play
>some autistic Korean figures out that you can use fish pole staff and rangers cock ring on wizard to insta-delete someone and used it to terrorize the top 0.1% of players
>fish pole staff and wizard nerfed into the dirt while the devs still claim it's viable offmeta combo in casual play (it isn't)
>casual players tried to make it work because they loved fish pole staff wizard
The moral of the story is that League of Legends sucks and Riot games deserve to be raped to death by wild niggers
>>714623923>can't play mid or nothing>can't play carry supports>can't play trilanes >can't deviate from the company mandated meta in any way or you lose the game or get banned by the auto moderator
>>714623923>wild niggersoxymoron
>>714622556most people who complain when "unconventional" strats are removed from games never played against them. Bullshit like funnel yi/kayle/taric or Laneswap meta actively make games worse because their strength comes from them being unintentional and thus excessively strong while being completely uninteractive for anyone facing it. funnel because only 2 players per match were allowed to enjoy themselves and there is simply no counterplay to an invincible hypercarry with a 5 level and 2 item lead forcing entire teams off the map. Laneswap because it completely gutted toplane character variety at higher levels, you either picked k'sante to survive the guaranteed early dive or you were level 2 at 10 minutes. The worst part about these strats is that they are disgustingly boring to interact with, and so dominant that every game begins to play out the same way until they are nerfed since their strength forces both teams to adopt them.
>>714624201is it true lane swaps are hard-coded to fuck you over now?
>>714624201>>714624494>>714624635lane swap?
as in that thing where you send your carry/support duo top instead of bottom and your solo top goes bottom?
League bans you for that?
>>714602876true, meta is a consequence of too much information being available which ruins the game, so really its the fault of both the developer as much as the players
>>714624262I don't think you know what that word means
moba
md5: 7465d380a78b2d1a81d6ca68d296f95c
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>>714624861you don't just get banned, the game fucks you in the ass to an unrecoverable degree until you go back to your designated area. You get half XP and the enemy objective becomes invincible among other penalties.
>>714625158Oh i do, but saying wild and black isn't correct.
Blacks are not wild, Africans are. Blacks in developed countries know exactly what they're doing.
Taking advantage of the system, using their skin color as a weapon, using the kindness of decades of whites that were taught not to judge someone of their skin color.
That is not someone wild. That is opportunist. Wild animals have more common sense and decency. There's countless examples of wild animals being more decent to humankind than how fatiguers behave.
I rather be around wild raccoons than them. At least I know all they want to take from me is any food I have because they're hungry.
Blacks will take your food, your car, your bike, your mailbox, your clothes....
>>714625360>half xp and invincible objectives>for just doing the standard gameplan but shuffling the locationswhat the actual fuck, how can people unironically play this shit
>>714602642 (OP)I quit league of faggots because the person getting reported is the one asking, and the faggot running it down the lane gets a medal
>>714625685>koreans>people
>>714625776I rather be around Koreans than blacks.
>>714625808You wouldn't see them at all because they'd either be starving themselves in a net cafe or chained to a desk for 100 hours a week in a cram school or office that doesn't pay overtime. I'm surprised the suicide rate isn't higher than it already is.
>>714624861>>714624635They don't ban you for it, they made it impossible to execute it in the way that made it break the game. swapping the bot laners into top lane before 3-5 minutes applies a temporary buff to the turret that makes it kill minions in one hit, nuke players and give full gold/exp to the solo laner on minion kill. it sounds like an extreme solution but if you watch pro/high elo games from that season it makes sense. effectively every match began with the exact same sequence of:
laneswap-jungler clears towards sololaner and dives sololaner at level 2/3- if the sololaner dies his game is finished and the jungler clears the opposing jungle's camps on that side on top of taking plating gold. the only way to deal with this was to pick a champion that could survive a 3man dive at level 2-3 or function without resources, removing 9.5/10 toplane champions from the pool in higher elos. there's that one famous worlds game with aatrox in the cuckbush doing nothing for 8+mins.
>>714625954You're really clutching onto that net cafe thing aren't you?
>>714608487โRemnant: from the ashesโ in a nutshell.
>>714602642 (OP)yes, because the combo is clearly retarded. If it was something like Wizard with dildo-summoning wand, then that'd be a real anti-meta build, not just a troll build made to autolose.
>>714625685>>714625993to tldr my other post its because it wasn't the standard gameplan in shuffled locations but a very specific, easily repeatable strategy that fucked proplay and killed viewership due to repetitive games while it was meta.
>>714625360lmao what the fuck
>>714625993what i'm hearing here is that the game's balance is extremely fragile due to deep underlying issues and was presumably made by morons
>>714623342>every BF since 4 caters to autistic faggots farming kills in a plane the whole game>your only "AA" is infantry weapons and maybe a handful of map AA fixtures (usually always placed next to something that allows the plane to escape your firing arc)>same shit pretty much goes for certain people in tanks who embed themselves in their team's protection and also sit back and farm kills the entire gamei just want to play the game featured in the trailers and commercials man
>>714626571>the only way to escape the vehicle sweats is to hide in TDM or slog through 24/7 Metro/Locker servers
>>714625993maybe the other team should've, I dunno, responded to the opposing team's strategy in the strategy game?
>>714622837>people STILL refuse to read any crystron's effectskeep popping my niggas
see what happens
>>714614458>Ok but if you're doing the dungeon 100 times because there's some 1% drop rate item you want you're saving almost 10 hours.see there's a problem here.
suppose a boss takes 10 minutes normally, and doing the perfect meta strategy cuts that in half.
sure, twice as fast... BUT the perfect meta strategy also has a failure rate of 60% due to all the variables involved (DPS having to forego any kind of emergency survivability, the occasional lag spike, human error, a boss summon could spawn in a spot that counters the meta entirely.)
at that point is it not reasonable to just do the boss without the perfect meta strategy? yeah sure it takes longer at the moment and you could TECHNICALLY pull it off, but because of the failure rate you're getting more clears in less time by playing the non-meta way.
>>714602642 (OP)That dude is in your game. That means he is your MMR rank. Which means
A: his weird off meta shit does indeed actually work and you are throwing the game by not letting him cook.
or
B: His ability to pass skill checks outweighs his ability to pass knowledge checks. If he played "correctly" then he would just be carrying you because his skill cjeck passing ability is much higher then yours.
It is also possible that he is in your game while being a much lower MMR then you, If this is the case then there is a PERSON OF EQUAL LOW MMR ON THE ENEMY TEAM. If the enemy team wins then they were good enough to carry a low mmr player while you were not. Its as shrimple as that.
The only time this is incorrect is if some player randomly without provocation decided to play off meta while being the type of person who plays meta his whole life. Then yes he is probably choosing to throw. In 90% of situations if you complain about off meta then you are actually just looking to get carried.
>>714628480MOBA/hero shooter players will jump through a million hoops to dodge accountability for their own lack of skill.
>>714621049>call your game "skill-based" when it's 100% reliant upon wikipedia knowledgeknowledge check pvp games are not real games, simple as
>>714620845>Melee is 1v1. In there you can play off-meta as much as you want. Expert dodge there. There are more examples of this than just Melee and 1v1 games. The point he was making is that metas DO evolve over time (often years) as people experiment, discover shit, and understand the mechanics better.
What you are thinking of as "the meta" is actually just "the current meta" and not the actual final theoretical maximally effective tactic. In fact, meta fagging and enforcing meta picks on others actively stops the meta from improving and evolving as there will be less people experimenting with off-meta options.
And even outside of a concept of a theoretical meta, individuals differ in their compatibility with certain playstyles. The theoretical meta might be sniper rifles. But if you suck ass with snipers and intuitively click with shotguns, then shotguns is YOUR personal meta. And you would be playing inefficiently by NOT picking a shotgun.
>>714622457...except pretty much every single game that has a single player and a multiplayer version? Of course the meta where you easily kill bots is different to try harding optimal strategies, in every single game.
>>714628480C: he's drunk off his ass and is tanking your match (and his rank (don't worry, someone else will take his place))
>>714627162Nice reading comprehension dipshit, the response is explained in the post you replied to, both top laners pick 1 of 5 champions that could potentially survive the early dive and hope the other guy fucks up. it was a meta because both teams used it and every other strategy lost to it.
Because games were fun when people were figuring shit out without wikis, youtube videos and streamers ruining everything. There were always metafags, but there were more people just playing the game naturally. Everyone just wants to win without putting any thought into it. I hate metashit because of that.
>>714606234Unfathomably based. Love hosing the latest meta trash in MTG Arena with a deck built to hard counter it lmao. The best part is the long pause that happens the moment they realize their main strategy just won't work at all.
>>714607645What's the meta pick in rock, paper, scissors?
>>714629632Good ol' rock.
Nothing beats that.
>>714606234This. In PvE meta is always the most boring shit aswell, its always the closest to "press this to win" and thats just not fun gameplay to me.
>>714629234I agree kinda but only in the sense that I feel the "meta" is engineered nowadays instead of occurring naturally like in brood war. Back in dota 1 there was no such thing as "supports" or "roles" people just figured out that some heros don't need money or exp and others just got more value from money and exp.
Its like if you went to recess and there is kids of all shapes and sizes and it turns out the skinny kid standing on the fat kids shoulders is the optimal way to steal candy from the principles window. I don't have a problem with THAT kind of meta. What I have a problem with is when you go to recces and everyone is either a fat kid or a skinny kid and there is nothing to figure out. All you can do at that point is check wikipedia for who is the tallest of the tall kids and it changes every other week.
>>714629632They actually tested that a statistically significant amount of people start with rock.
So paper if you're among the uninitiated, scissors if you're among metafags
Reading a walkthrough is the meta for single player games. Reading a plot synopsis in advance is the meta for understanding plots. Cheating is extremely meta. At some point, you have to just fucking play the game.
>>714611214>Go to a boxing gym>Kick your opponent in the face>"Yo bro, why'd you kick me? WTF?">"Kicking is meta."Lmao
>>714628480The problem is that even with both teams having shitters one can have self awareness and take an easy to pull off meta pick, while the other picks a character that both has a higher skill floor and isn't meta. To use a recent game like marvel rivals as an example its the difference between having a shit magneto/strange and a shit black widow/spiderman on your team. one of these is still useful without hands, the other is incapable of contributing to the game.
>>714620171If you make an unfun tactic optimal, players will pick it even if it's unfun. If Magic released a card that said "Slam your face on the table: Deal 1 damage to each opponent" players would give themselves concussions and then (correctly) say the game fucking sucks shit
Simply make the fun strategies strong, and cut out the unfun or uninteractive ones.
>>714630386lmao I'm imagining someone in a game of commander smashing his head into the table until he knocks himself unconsious while everyone's just staring at him
>>714606234Too bad devs often nerf any viable anti-meta strategies to the ground because they can't balance the game around strategic versatility. Hell they can't even 100% balance the game around a single meta, so most items are left in the trash can until the next season.
>>714615426Know a dude that looked up meta builds to play through BG3 and still died to each boss like 10 times on Tactician lmao.
>>714622425is your friend semitic perchance?
>>714616605Had this happen in a fighting game. When a nigga has no idea what your moves do, it's REALLY hard for them to fight back.
>>714630386>>714630530This card wouldn't be played by anyone except those who literally don't deserve to be playing Magic
Yes, that's right, I genuinely believe that if you are out to win SO HARD you'd literally bang your head on a table to win against your opponent, you don't deserve to play a trading card game. If you play that card, you are clearly too mentally ill to even shit unsupervised.
Most games are badly designed, that's why the optimal way to play them (meta) is often unfun. In general you want interesting, meaningful, fair, fun player interactions in your PvP game thus you are supposed to design your game with those in mind. A game designer should be an experienced wise gamer preferably in the matching genre (You don't want mmo/rts devs with 0 fps experience designing a fucking shooter) because a proper gamer is the only one with perspective to design games properly. But what happens in real life is designers are hacks who just mix random shit together they thought it was cool at that moment ("What if dash? What if parry melee? What if wall jump?" - icefraud the one trick pony trying to design gameplay of deadlock) . Designers are not at their position for their merits as gamers, they are there because they are sell outs. With these in mind it shouldn't be suprising why pvp games will always have shit metas. Game designers are just suffering from skill issue.
>>714630218>The problem is that even with both teams having shitters one can have self awarenessIf this is the case then their shitter is actually BETTER then YOUR shitter. Their MMR is NOT the same. You are creating a scenario where the teams are no longer MMR balanced. Your retard is on his way down while their retard is on his way up. That should be happening. In a fair and balanced game.
This scenario you are describing however inst common, people progressively get better and more aware they don't take 200 point jumps in their "real" MMR compaired to their in game MMR. The difference is most likely minuet and the worst player having an eurika moment about what character to pick doesn't wildly change the outcome of the game.
Unless you are playing some beyond shit game where skill checks mean nothing compared to knowledge checks
>>714602642 (OP)Name ONE (1) game where playing the meta is the most fun way to play.
>>714630798Okay but I won and you are the loser so why would your opinion even matter?
>>714617672Remember some faggot sperging out on the mic in CoD WWII because I kept killing him with a riot shield while he was trying to snipe. I only threw together a loadout to do the weekly mission which happened to require using the riot shield. He was mad because my zero effort random mission build was killing his dedicated tryhard quickscoping lmao.
>>714615794They can't balance around 100 heroes, so they nerf 90 of them to irrelevance and focus on balancing around the few that remain.
>>714630557In PVE games the people who use metabuilds off of google are usually complete and utter shit at games.
The sheer proportion of 0 vigor magic builds in elden ring multiplayer a few weeks after release was insane, invasions were comedy gold because you could watch the comet azure/sword of night and flame abusers scramble rolling and desperately spamming spells before dying in 1 hit.
>>714631130Because I'm not the one with my scalp split open draining blood and rapidly losing consciousness. Beating yourself up then declaring yourself the winner isn't a sound strategy. I'm actually almost appalled that I have to explain this to you.
>>714618267If there exists a fun strategy that is good enough to win, people will still use it, even if it is only 99% as good as a boring meta strat that takes all the fun out of the game.
>>714602642 (OP)solved games are boring
don't play them
>>714631439People play Lantern Control and that's almost as awful as that card
>>714602642 (OP)Your desire to win isn't more important than my desire to play carry treant protector sorry.
>>714602642 (OP)This shit is why I just avoid all multiplayer games. I don't have the patience to babysit retarded manbabies.
>>714602642 (OP)>play fps game >pick shotgun>nooooo assault rifle is metaaaa>im reporting you troll>proceed to kick ass while the metafag cries>nooo you cant do that>winMetafag shuts up and runs off.
>lose cause he throws himself out of tiltIts your fault.
There is meta but also authistic hyper meta to the point people are so blinded by it they play shit and do not even understand why.
>>714602642 (OP)Meta is only cool if you're playing the meta that you discovered or learned through experience. Googling "Whats the meta" and listening to some adderall "pro" faggot tell you exactly how to play makes you a shitter.
Man games were more fun before the internet. Fuck e-celebs, '"pro" gamers and streamers.
>>714631828brb getting my 40 lightning bolts and 20 dual lands (just to flex) deck
Every thread about multiplayer being like this is why I will never touch multiplayer
>>714630947the point I was making was that in games where both teams have an equivalent shitter the team whose shitter picks off meta has pretty high odds of having a miserable experience. people often forget that the people who most play offmeta are usually 1tricks and they genuinely mess with matchmaking because they are often 2-300 mmr below the rest of the lobby in game fundamentals. examples of this include: heimerdinger players in league,
gimmick hero mains in dota i.e. broodmother, chen,
genji mains in overwatch.
Ironically off meta players are the ones most reliant on knowledge checking people to get wins and its why it's rough to have them on your team once you reach ranks where counterpicking matters and the average player is skilled enough to avoid getting cheesed by them.
>non meta means playing a build thats 100% antisynergies
why does the OP read like someone swapped out a single meta spell for one the personally preferred and they're pretending it's equivalent to going somewhere 30+ levels too high for you and running a melee mage?
>>714628480This used to be case but now rank and matchmaking is 100% rigged and manipulated in every game so the whole thing is basically null and void.
>play without doing meta
>get to play however you want, actually have fun
>play with meta
>Only "allowed" to enjoy 2% of the entire game's content, because winning nonstop with little challenge is apparently all that matters
Yeah competitive drones need a brain check
>>714627162Your mistake is in thinking that ASSFAGGOTS are a strategy game.
>>714632038what is this shower argument of a post, what fps game are you playing where people flame you for using shotguns?
>>714602642 (OP)Because its not fun
Im the kind of player that never rerolls
>>714602642 (OP)If you have to make this extreme of an example to make "doing what you actually want to" seem bad, you've lost already
I remember as a kid when I discovered pokemon natures and spent so many hours getting pokemons with the right nature, then grinding EVs etc
It was fucking awful
Now I just roll with whatever the game throws my way, Im not competing in the world championship so what does it fucking matter?
>>714634412Did you play against others often?
>>714634623Not really only my brother and one friend this was back in gen 4, I just HAD to get them just right or they felt completely worthless, Im glad I got out of that mentality, I killed the fun for myself.
>>714634709Yeah, you did sound like an idiot. The whole perfect natures etc. stuff only matters if you played cartridge a lot. Simulators solved this issue looong ago of course.
>>714605783anon is too stupid for theorycrafting
>>714602642 (OP)cause its boring
If I dont win using my personal build/cards/character/whatever that I enjoy then its not winning
Winning using meta feels like cheating and like it misses the point
>>714610316enrage timers on WoW bosses are so that you can't just take a whole raid of tanks and healers and be invincible
has nothing to do with bugmen playing grinder MMOs with 20 hour raid bosses
>de_dust2 + ak/m4/awp every round
no thanks, see you on assault, militia, or 747. i'm using the np5navy or the ump45 or the 228 and there's literally nothing you can do to stop me nigger
>>714618389It pisses me off that Gunlance is so low.
GUNLANCERS STRONG!
>>714602642 (OP)Why do you hate games that the general public likes?
Same answer.
>>714611257>You explain all this to them and they get super pissy instead of trying to improveI've only ever seen people get pissy because of the way they're spoken to, not the content of what is being said. If you act like a turd expect to be treated like one. Of course, that may not be what happened in your case.
>>714617325>UH YOUR EXPERIENCE GROUNDED IN REALITY IS WRONG BECAUSE IS SAID SO
Because beating meta slaves with off meta tactics, items, weapons, builds, etc is the sweetest victory you can imagine
out.fucking.skilled.
>>714628961He's referring to the format.
>entire single player campaign is 1v1>official tournament rules is 2v2Make it make sense.
>>714636548IIRC gunlance jumped way up the dps list in Wilds solely because of the double AA flare combo giving it an actual combo for big openings.
>>714602642 (OP)This is not what actually happens. What really happens is that metafags sort and throw a fit if you do anything remotely different from whatโs optimal or try something new (until that thing also becomes meta then they pretend like it was always a good idea). They are just incurious NPC golems
>>714629632It would be a mixed strategy where you pick one at random with certain probabilities. Given
>>714629918those probabilities shouldn't start out equal, but would be updated after each round in a Bayesian was. Against a rational opponent you'd approach the equilibrium strategy of equal probabilities, and against an irrational opponent you'd approach whatever strategy maximally exploits them.
>>714602642 (OP)>play Clair Obscur>play on Expert>Maelle is too busted so I stop using her>Waiting to use my lumina tokens until I feel I need it>game feels comfortably challenging>can ease up on myself whenever I want if things get too roughI might stop letting myself use the bench too, which kinda kills me because I've always thought it made no sense to not have that happen.
Might just stop upgrading Maelle's weapon until her damage output feels more sane instead.
>>714642251It's more that shelling scaled off your damage now rather then being a static value so half your moveset isn't just tickles to build gauge. Of course, they fucked up and now it does a bajillion damage, but Capcom has no concept of mechanics or balance so that's par for the course.
>>714616605dota is a game that is near impossible to 100% wr as a support unless your team is actually doing something instead of feeding.
so 100% wr is really an indictment on you
>>714616936tell me how to stunlock as a dazzle
>>714617928>gee willickers why is the casual fun format full of self regulating friends more popular than the intense competitve nature of a 1v1>>714618046mtg has a couple of unavoidable problems.
1 its designed to be played competitively and that means that good players build good decks and play well, that makes new players and dunning krugers seethe.
2 mana is actually a good way to add variance to make match ups interesting but like getting crit by an enemy in a roguelite just feels awful
3 mtg is the best game for fans of game design and thus those tinkerers will scour sets for arcane synergies that are impossible for the game to predict
4 even if you could predict them a set with nothing powerful is just boring, you have to ban a few eggs to have exciting cards to pull
5 mtg is a commercial product so they cant band marquee cards like the one ring just to save the format because it sells, and more importantly the players playing it could drop the game if its banned. so bans are way sparser than they should.
6 even banning things just leaves a hole for the next obnoxious thing or new broken combo in a coming set
its defintely not that gandalf was turned into a nigger tho.
>>714618808mtg is a very casual game for decades the data comes back that the most popular format is 'cards i own played on a kitchen table' years ago the 2nd was draft and now the 2nd is EDH.
smogon is only competitve, literal apples and oranges comparison here.
>>714602642 (OP)I've wondered for ages why /v/cels cope a bunch about games having metas and how they are totes special snowflakes and unique for not playing them.
>>714602642 (OP)because playing the same way as everyone else isn't as interesting as messing with stuff myself
>>714643589Dazzles a strange bird, but your best best is going wind spirit/sythe of vyse. Ofc you need to be doing well to afford the latter but I would probably just go push stick. I donโt think he has any stuns, but you could go demonic breastplate and the stunning blade on top of that as well. Q into the stun blade and then when they come out use sythe KekW
Then use storm spirit to hold them until your team arrives
>>714644005dazzle having no stuns was my point m8. hes also great even if he does 0 dmg because of grave. its also why off meta picks can work really well in dota because a meta team that normally dumpsters dazzle could leave an oppurtunity for dazzle to succeed if they dont have the counters.
complaining about meta in dota is absolutely retarded unless youre well above archon. dota is just one of those games where you can lose in draft
Meta usually only matters at top level play and most people are not top level
>>714602642 (OP)The discovery of finding my own way to play is always more entertaining than pandering to a bunch of screeching autistic retards who want me to skip all that fun and play the game the "right" way. I don't care if it's a solved problem, solving it myself is more interesting.
>>714602876Anti metafags are normally like this though. They try to conceptualize their own unique build only for it to be polar opposite of anything good. There's stuff that's innovative that shouldn't work but does, there's stuff on the path to success but stays slightly off course and isn't as powerful. Then there's the average meta complainer that can't put together a cohesive idea together to save their own life. And then intentionally piss and shit themselves when someone following the meta absolutely rapes them, and would still rape them even if they did some offbrand shit. It's MOSTLY just cope from people that fundamentally can't/actively choose not to learn the game they're playing.
>>714602642 (OP)For me, itโs being so autistically good at a game that I can play outside of the meta and still carry the game. Thatโs the sign of a real man.
>>714602642 (OP)Meta is the death of fun, mystery and exploration.
Solving a game is a big part of the fun. Looking up someone else's solutions is boring as fuck and meta creep in multiplayer makes it boring for everyone else too.
And this doesn't apply to everyone, but there is a subset of metafags who act like looking up somebody else's answers makes them superior to people who actually engage with the game themselves, and that's a level of retardation so profound we don't have a word for it.
>>714602642 (OP)What a gay straw man comic
>>714622837>meta decks become highly refined to get a 1% edge on the weird synergistic meta deck>thus its playing bad cards that are only good in the meta>win becuase you didnt play the good deck but played against a deck thats only viable against the metakeep patting yourself for 'outplaying' them bud
>>714602642 (OP)Metafagging pissed me off a decade ago in LoL.
>Cool, summoner spells!>There's so many of them too!>Hey anon you picked flash, right?>Huh, why? There's so many other ones, I want to try the bonus runspeed one!>Pick flash, idiot>WHY!?>BECAUSE IT'S THE BEST ONE>Every fucking match everyone uses only flash>Never saw any of the others used a single time>Every competition-fag used it tooExcessive meta bullshit ruins games because what's the point of a game when you ignore 90% of it's content?
>>714623557goats is entirely because of how strong healing in OW is compared to other games. even in tf2 where the team with a medic always wins people just dont play medic. and how you have to make bulky tanks excel in cqc. goats forces cqc but try to run a huge line of tanks in other games and watch them get ripped apart by dps that OUTSUSTAINS healers. rivals feels really guilty of this shit.
>>714645551You can take 2 summoner spells though. So Flash + 1 other, depending on your role. Though if Riot were smart they would've just made Flash an innate ability every champion has and not a summoner spell.
>>714646047Everyone took Flash and the one which killed either jungle creatures or heroes.
No exceptions.
>WoW SoD.
>Shockadin with mixed Priest gear and Mage rings/trinkets
>Strength enchantments on gear and weapons.
>Seal Twisting.
When done right, it's fun, and the horde don't expect it.
>lvl 2 vs lvl 35
That's a level difference not the meta
Because Meta is meant to be broken, you are subjecting yourself to cointoss victories if you do not find a way to break the mold.
>singleplayer RPG
>devs intentionally dont make enemies OP as fuck but leave in synergies that allow players to break the game
>players literally cannot stop themselves from only abusing the most busted shit ever for 99% of the game
>proceed to complain the game is too samey and easy while never ever experimenting with other playstyles or builds
>>714602642 (OP)>want to play battlefield 1>every rp server is dead and only places left are normie cesspools>try to have fun anyway with my shitty rifles like a true ww1 soldier>get raped by everyone on the other team using fucking machine gunsGenuinely hate it, I want to enjoy gritty ww1 kino why do I have to deal with COD players in juggernaut suits with fucking smgs, 5 was better anyway
>>714602642 (OP)>Play Fishing Pole Wizard>Score little to no points but annoy the ever living fuck out of the enemy team with bullshit>It causes them to seethe on forums later.
>>714647853>youโre supposed to on babby easy mode only, like me
>>714622457> the actual single player meta is completely detached from the official competitive metaBecause single player competitive evolved organically on its own and was well established long before official tournaments ever became a thing. This, coupled with the fact that "official" competitive is doubles, which has never been anything more than a small niche in actual pokemon games (besides colosseum), meant that it never really felt legitimate compared to what was already long established by the fans on their own, going back to the netbattle days and before.
>>714647965>outing yourself as a shitter by thinking only the most meta strats are viable on the highest difficulties
Is there a multiplayer game where things depreciate over time so you can't really meta? Maybe the more people use something the faster it plummets and it only goes back up when less people use it
>>714603083The only good take in this thread.
>>714647746>That's a level difference not the metaI think it's implying he's having trouble leveling up because his build sucks, but yeah that's a bit dumb
>>714621428Yeah, taking PvP too serious in souls really ruined it in the long run. It's lame how PvP has been forced into a ghetto, where you either go into lame arena honor duels or you pointlessly attack dedicated ganks where there's nothing on the line because none of the dungeons in later games like ER have long difficult stretches between bonfires. There's really no "griefing" in a game like ER. And without griefing, there's really no point to invasions.
>>714602642 (OP)>plays top tier>rapes all the off-meta peopleheh... looks like im having fun at your expense
>>714646940nah a lot of top laners would take either teleport or ghost, and heal and exhaust were both commonly picked for supports
the others were actually just genuinely garbage like clairvoyance or surge
>>714648245In such a system, I can see really desperate compfags using bots or multiple accounts etc to sandbag certain items, manipulating them down and forcing other things up.
>>714621428>it should only be seen as funny griefingSen's fortress with a Dragonslayer Bow and Force...home.
>>714603213The third option is for the game to be designed to be flexible enough so that one doesn't have to pick the most optimal choices in order to feasibly get out to the other side. Optimization is fine, but if you're demanded to follow meta-builds in order to see the game, something's wrong.
>>714648524absolute cinema
>>714602642 (OP)I don't like playing meta when the meta goes against what the class or character is actually supposed to be about
>Uh... the meta build for the wizard class is to go into swords and not use magicFuck right off.
For instance, I absolutely understood all the paladin players who absolutely refused to go into healing back in Vanilla WoW because who the fuck rolls a paladin to be a healer? Vanilla WoW might have been the only game in existence to make the paladin class a primary healer, and I understand the players who refused to go along with it.
If I'm playing as a paladin, I want to be a holy warrior that smites evil and protects his friends.
If I'm playing as a fighter or a warrior or whatever, I want to hit the dudes with my sword.
If I'm playing as a wizard, I want to cast spells.
If I'm playing as a cleric or a priest, I want to heal, buff and do various other "holy" things.
If I'm playing as a rogue or a thief, I want to sneak around and murder dudes.
If I'm playing as a ranger or archer, I want to shoot dudes with my bow.
If I'm playing as a summoner, I want to summon dudes to fight for me.
If I'm playing as a witch or a warlock, I want lots of evil spells and hexes.
If I'm playing as a monk, I want to be a kung fu master.
So on and so forth.
And the "meta" can absolutely go FUCK itself if it doesn't let me do that.
For single-player games there needs to be a good balance. If the game is too strict and punishing, where there's basically only a single "meta" way to play the game feasibly, that's not good, because why even having build choices and playstyle decisions if there's only one correct answer. But at the same time, if a game is too easy, then a lot of a game's systems and mechanics just end up being completely wasted, because players will just take the path of least resistance.
The perfect example of the latter problem is pokemon. Pokemon has a surprisingly complex battling system. But the in-game teams and AI is so braindead awful that there's no point in actually bothering with team composition, strategies, etc. Why bother with tanks and leech seeders and hazard setters when you can just send out your starter and hit the opponent's five bidoofs with generic STAB attacks until they're all dead?
>>714621776This still happens in AoE II from time to time. The Persian douche is an old strategy that despite being easily removable by the devs if they ever chose - still exists even after 25 years since the winning move is to not fight it.
>>714648245Not in the same context as a truly competitive game, but Path of Exile has incredibly volatile balancing between leagues. It is however a forced means by the devs to get people to plot out something new to use for the next three months. Some games seemingly experiment with rotating map layouts each day, week, or month depending on its scope, so people don't have years to learn them like they do with Aerowalk or de_dust - though the tools are often more or less the same.
>>714602876>they mocked him because he unleashed the truth nvked
>>714609610>my class does 2% less dps than another?With blizzard it was notoriously bad. Differences of 30% or greater, and around cataclysm they began removing all the niche utility every low-dps class brought.
It completely bricked both PvP and PvE in retail, and the game hasn't been the same since.
>hurr durr solved game
no such thing, just games that people are done exploring. plenty of examples of old maintainence mode games that see huge meta shifts even without major updates, see: broodwar, melee, minecraft pvp, chess. try not being pic related for once in your shitty worthless lives.
meta builds are almost always glass canons
>>714625993>>714624635>>714624201>>714626549The more I hear about "league of legend" the gladder I am to have never bothered trying it.
It sounds like those cheapass phonegame that are actually glorified gambling machine.
The meta problem is also what killed the RTS genre.
>>714650207Minecraft PVP... has a meta?
>>714648656Have you played WoW Season of Discovery? Its Vanilla WoW but different. The Paladin is viable as a DPS and Tank now.
>Paladin Heals can be fucking OP.>Seal Twisting and the right judgement can cause insane burst.>Concecrate and Exorcism can now hit everything, and deal double damage to demons and undead>So can Holy Shock, and with the right runes, it can refresh itself immediately for a 100% mana return and near instant cast when paired with exorcism, making Shockadins somewhat viable
>>714621428>not enjoying RP invasionsyour loss
>>714603213>Because people just wanna have fun doing their own thing. They bought the game so they should be allowed to do what they want. But, I wont lieโฆ not playing the meta is no different from being anti-conformist and it hurts your team (faggots who only care about winning). It all comes down to being a selfish dick head or being a team player that bows to metafags who only care about winning. The optimal choice depends on your personalityThen don't play a multiplayer game, no one wants to deal with a dipshit.
>>714648531>The third option is for the game to be designed to be flexible enough so that one doesn't have to pick the most optimal choices in order to feasibly get out to the other side. Optimization is fine, but if you're demanded to follow meta-builds in order to see the game, something's wrong.Then the game will be easy and no one will bother with it, increases in difficulty will produce a narrow range of right answers, you use them or you lose. If you want to play a casual game casually go do that, don't whine that you make stupid choices because you don't want to win.
>>714650658Nice timing on the target switch.
>>714602642 (OP)Because kicking your ass with a D-tier character and listening to you cope and melt down is hilarious.
>>714648170This.
Meta strats are only the most expedient strategies. It doesn't mean they're the only path to victory.
>>714650482minecraft pvp goes way harder in the paint than you think. go check out some hardcore bedwars players or some shit.
>>714622457Doubles is the solution to a problem that gamefreak chooses to ignore: stalling is super easy in pokemon, but it's slightly less viable in doubles. Plus, single battle 6v6 take way too long, at least in doubles there's plenty of moves and strategies to take out both of the opponent's pokemon at the same time.
>>714630386>If Magic released a card that said "Slam your face on the table: Deal 1 damage to each opponent" players would give themselves concussionsNot if I counter it with my single-use "Cancel whatever the opponent did" card, which I have to burn each time I play them (which is why they are bought in bulk).
I just wish we could put them to the gravyard without having to burn them too.
>>714650889Why is Ganondorf sporting the Chad Hair?
file
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>>714650954Ganondorf is literally born into a 1000-to-1 harem every single reincarnation.
>>714651000I didn't know that.
That total beast.
>>714650930This is easy if the colt isn't actually loaded (the image would've mentioned) then the man on the PEDs will win with a good fist to the face. Black could counteract by attempting to pistol whip white but the PEDs would likely help him avoid that.
White wins.
>>714650930You say this as a joke, but I think it would be hilarious if they really made a 0 mana instant negate that you have to light on fire, and tournament refs have to enforce it.
>>714602642 (OP)Your retarded comic doesn't make it clear why you think they should.
>>714602642 (OP)Metafags are insufferable
>NOOOOOOO YOU HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME IN THIS ONE OPTIMAL WAY EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF WAYS TO PLAY IT NOOOOOOOO REEEEEEEE
>>714602642 (OP)Meta sweatlords are gay
like actual homosexual bottom gay
>>714650930Player 3 who has 3 copies of Pot of Greed (allows you to draw 3 cards)
I just think playing the meta is a pretty fucking boring way to play a game, I play for fun and if I find a build fun I'll do that above doing the meta. Sure if I'm achievement hunting I'll try the meta but 9/10 I'm going for a fun build over anything else
>>714650930>only .22 lolThe guy on drugs won't even feel the bullets. The guy with a Colt was given a false sense of confidence.
>>714650207>decide to check Gen IV Pokรฉmon meta for old time's sake>recall that most dragons got banned, checks out>find Machamp also banned because the current userbase hates forcing confusion
>>714651354How did you come to be a skeleton, anon?
>>714608854Tale as old as time
>fags: hurrdurr you suck Anon>me: that's odd I'm spending half the match shit talking and I'm on top of the scoreboardHilarious.
>>714644203I know the point you were trying to make, I was trying to say that despite characters having inherent flaws like dazzle having no stuns, they can still make up for it with certain items like sheep stick.Or for example if the dazzle absolutely crushes the lane and somehow Carries the game, which Iโve never seen because the base stats of certain characters just scale so much better into mid game. I mean the most braindead troll warlord is going to crush a dazzle. if you took an axe with no items and a dazzle with no items at 30 minutes the axe would probably win, just too much armor and hp and would execute dazzle probably before he could kill him. But thatโs the whole draw of MOBAs is that you have champions that will always be stronger than others. Metafagging in this case is cancer because why would you ever not play a carry? Youโre just gimping yourself to stroke the ego of the damage dealer.
>>714651525You are inside a skeleton right now
>>714650915>watch spastics flail their arms at each otherNah I'm good. No amount of "skill" will make Minecraft interesting to watch.
>DS3
>Everyone uses meta build
>Use Whip
>Weapon so random and obtuse no one has beaten me since no one is insane enough to use it.
it just works
>>714632294>Every thread about multiplayer being like this is why I will never touch multiplayerThe problem is entirely the fault of "competitive" play and eSport mentality
"NO RNG FUN ALLOWED!!! THIS GAME MUST DEFINE WHICH OF US HAVE THE BIGGEST META!!!!"
(then devs manipulate the matchmaker to enforce 50-50)
>>714633721OP pic wasr made by a meta fag trying to make himself look smarter & aware, with the anti-meta as self-absorbed.
>>714651653damn, those necromancers are a crafty bunch
>>714648656>If I'm playing as *****, I want to *****Reporting you for lowering my rank
>>714651656behold: the average casual who complains about "meta."
>>714651045>>714651354You anti-colt fag forget
>>714650930 illegal number of rooks
He has the of illegality on your side, you can replace pawn with extra bullet as you wish.
I'd be afraid of the red pawn tho.
>>714652407>You anti-colt fag forget >>714650930 illegal number of rooks>He has the of illegality on your side, you can replace pawn with extra bullet as you wish.>I'd be afraid of the red pawn tho.You're a retard you just remove the rooks from the board after you knock him out dumbass.
>>714652407If any of those white lands are Ondu Inversion then all those rooks are going bye bye.
>>714651076I said this because it was the most obvious money milking bullshit I could imagine.
More realistically, this card would only be allowed "once per play" "can't be regenerated" so you'd either have multiple card or be a loser who don't.
Funnier one
>>714650930>"Slam your face on the table: Deal 1 damage to each opponent"Play the card
>If your opponent slam his face on the table right after you did, the damage is cancelled and you take damageNOW we would reach peak Magic.
>>714602642 (OP)>the natural progress of trying what you think might work and slowly learning from your mistakes and improving, aka. playing the game>NUH-UH FUCK YOU, GO WATCH THREE GUIDES BEFORE YOU GET RANDOMLY ASSIGNED TO MY TEAM OR I MIGHT GET MAD FROM LOSINGMetashitters are cancer
>>714652482>You're a retardI will concede that constructive point well made but
>you just remove the rooks from the board after you knock him out dumbass.completely ignore that Heart of a champion would make it impossible to knock him out
>>714652528>sorcery card played as a landIllegality is on the other side tho.
>>714653036>Oh you wanna play a strategy game? >Step 1 fuck strategy/thinking memorize the fuck out of a build order, and play the same way 24/7 until it's burnt into your muscle memory>Step 2 climb 80% of the ranked ladder to finally reach a stage where strategy is involved>Step 2 can take 6-8 months
>>714653036FFXIV speedrunners ruin raids for new players.
>>714602642 (OP)posted it again award
>>714653161posted posted it again again reward
I'm allergic to meta. Always pick anything but it. Call me a snowflake I dont care but I just hate the idea of being a trend following npc. The most fun you can have in a video game is coming up with your own strategies and gradually improving
>>714653682this. If your strategies work well enough they eventually become the meta and no one knows how to counter it better than you do
>t. fag who created the nearly one hit kill rocket meta in Loadout before the game died
>>714602642 (OP)The "meta" has to ban anything funny or fun to please autistic people that are too autistic to accept that they lost the autism battle which competitive video games are at the end of the day. Everything banned in Pokรฉmon, everything banned in Smash, its fucking wild to me that it took so long for smashfags to realize that Sonic can just run away
>>714652895Nice bait,
The troll head really is a nice bait but that's not how it was back then.
Troll: teamkill, ruin others' effort and reach schadenfreude nirvana
Stoner: play as they feel like it without caring if it works
Compet fag: constantly blaming others player for not winning
Normal: Just want to have fun
Modern era troll are now more subtle because games are built to make the obvious trolling method impossible
Stoner are rotated as forced win opponents
Compet fag are rotated as forced loss opponents
Normal player quit because the matchmaking prevent player from adapting to what the team was doing wrong, unless they follow the meta
meta
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>>714602642 (OP)It's a teenage thing. I didn't want to admit it either, but with experience it simply became obvious that for every activity in the world there is an objectively better way to do it.
>>714626549They still force people to play >jungle so yeah the devs in charge got more and more retarded and panic the fuck out the moment something breaks their little scheme
>>714650470No one asked for your "opinion" but ok
>>714602642 (OP)This jak comic is still of fucking point.
>>714625954I like all coastal orientals (japanese, koreans, upper class chinks). They have manners, because of the mask thing. You can't do much anything serious with them because they are physically, genetically unable to state accurate facts. But interactions at stores, streets, public transit are always pleasant.
>>714650551I haven't tried it, though I heard they had fixed paladins a bit in it.
>>714654106The people who are able to consistently stay in the top competitive player rank.
>>714654345>No one asked for your "opinion" but okOP did. My answer is on topic.
Yours however... you want to have a (You) I guess?
>>714654106No one, it's just the mathematical result of shit solved game
>>714602642 (OP)Why does the artist need to draw the hair on the lvl 35 guy's tummy
Is that detail really that important to the story that he wanted to tell
So why don't these computer games, RTS, LoL, whatever, use randomized starting conditions? I'm not talking about sudden random events (like drawing a card), but random situations that are displayed at the start of the match, with everyone having 100% info about what was randomized? This prevents stale meta and is the standard method used for decades in thousands of different board games.
Is it because computer games are mass entertainment and such hard IQ checks would destroy the egos of you all?
>>714655357Yes to illustrate the point how the Lv. 35 meta gaming maul user is unbathed fat ass who never leaves his mother's basement at age 30 or so even to as much as to take a shower in real life.
>>714655405Each random element needs to be worth it to be used against the other element and no element can have a meta one upmanship over the rest or its just a gambling game at that point.
eSports wants to minimize randomness in order to be viable in countries where gambling is a banned form of gaming unless its gambling matches based on a skill based sport like conditions where the main skill minimizes the outcome dependency on the luck factor since this is an avenue which isn't usually regulated by gambling agencies in those countries and forced out of business.
>>714617672GW2? I just ignore the achievements and occasionally check them for a "oh i've only done 150 warhorn kills ever" informative moment
>>714602642 (OP)>>714602772>>714602876If you're playing a game where you are accountable solely for yourself (fighting game, single player game, etc), then who gives a fuck about meta, play as you like.
If you're playing a game where your performance affects your assigned teammates, intentionally playing in a manner that you know is likely to lose the game for your team is a pretty faggy move.
Simple as.
>>714656085Just don't play non-meta in ranked, play casually in a casual lobby or with friends lol.
>>714602642 (OP)if the meta is seeing what other people are doing and adapting to that, that's fine
if the meta is reading some out of game resource or watching a commentary then you're a filthy guide user and officially gamefaqs user tier, you snot nosed little faggot
>>714602642 (OP)It's impossible to balance a game perfectly and eventually a game will become so played out that it's "meta" will be established and if you want to be as effective as possible then you play with that in mind. This really only upsets players imo that have little to no experience, or if they do have experience then it was them dicking around for 1000s of hours. If you go and play any modern multiplayer game the strategies have been played to death and there have probably already been numerous explanations as to why the game is played the way it is, but with video content slop being produced so frequently, it gets buried under 50 lbs of shit and the video needs to be remade for the 100th time to get it across to newfaggots. Multiplayer video games are fun and competition is fun, but I think the problem is players treating pick-up game services like faceit or matchmaking ladders seriously when the most effective way to learn is to create a team and discuss strategies together and go in-depth. Nobody ever does this though, they unconsciously queue into matches 12 hours a day, lose repeatedly, don't learn shit and ragequit then make threads like this where they bitch and moan instead of applying a fraction of knowledge to the game. It's just a fucking video game and doesn't really mean anything anyways, you're not playing for money, just arbitrary ranks.
Meta play is for low skill chuds. Mid players who have played long enough to have learned the meta on how to win but without fully understanding why. There are a couple of games I have thousands and thousands of hours in, where I'm head and shoulders above the average player and a fair bit above even most skilled players, and in those games I threw out the meta ages ago. I have enough of an instinctive understanding of the game, what works and what doesn't, and how to play, that I can play however I want. I play with novel strategies all the time. I can afford to make mistakes because I am that good and I will still be carrying your fat ass. No I will not play the exact way you want. No I will not vote to remove the novice player from the party. Yes I will work around their flaws and still win. You wish you were good enough to play like this.
>>714602642 (OP)>play TF2 MvM>it's just an Advanced mission, nothing too hard>pick Medic with stock Uber >"pro" player starts talking to me like a child and telling me I have to pick Kritzkrieg>acquiesce and it's fine, though not what I prefer>another player is using Sniper, not doing horrible but not playing their best (damage is comparable to the other players when usually Sniper leads damage by a mile)>"pro" player starts screeching at them to switch classes even though we haven't lost a wave yet>get to final wave, lose twice>he gets the team to votekick the Sniper>tells team to votekick the next guy who joins because "he has a pro player coming">second "pro" is just as condescending>we win and the first guy starts gloating about "winning first try after we kicked the retard sniper"This is why people hate metafags. It's not the meta itself, though depending on the game the meta can be unfun, it's people taking shit so seriously that it ruins things for other players
If you want everyone on your team to play like there's a bomb strapped to your chest form a premade group of likeminded people, don't matchmake and inflict that on normal dudes
>>714630713>tfw the character you play is statistically picked less often than the game's random select>tfw you do something you know is punishable but the opponent will blunder and get hit by because it's a weird move and even players capable of getting top 8 in tournies get hit by it
>>714655405>So why don't these computer games, RTS, LoL, whatever, use randomized starting conditions?Autistic compet fag reject any form of randomness.
Editor also want to milk the free-advertising from making "eSport" game. Meaning a fake illusion of "fairness", in symmetric map, both side having the sames troops and so on.
Also, RNG mechanics or NPC would require the developers to actually spend money on game-design and gameplay when they can just do the minimum.
>Is it because computer games are mass entertainment and such hard IQ checks would destroy the egos of you all?The opposite,
Competitive fag believe (their) games are simplistic, because THEY are the high IQ super-genius who can follow the meta (someone else found for them).
Things like needing to adapt environmental to new conditions in real time is "entertainment crap for casuals".
>>714655623I don't think you properly understood what I was suggesting.
All of the randomized conditions would be displayed before the start of the match. Give everyone a minute or so to study, depending on how much there is. There would be no random events of any kind during the actual match. Everything would always give fixed guaranteed end result, like chess.
Of course you could still have all kinds of randomization, I like well made, entertaining decks of cards. Just that it's not needed for my argument at this time.
>>714657484>Autistic compet fag reject any form of randomness.no they don't.
There are good and bad kinds of randomness in games, having incredibly high variance outcomes sucks, having ways you have a chance to take advantage of is usually loved.
imagine an vs where there is a temporary part of the round that makes everyone move twice as fast and respawn twice as fast vs giving double points for a kill, one of them feels dogshit as the gameplays differently and you need to relearn a lot of things while the other encourages you to more carefully engage with the game despite realistically having similar outcomes.
dota is pretty much the best example of a very competitive game that has a lot of randomness and is loved for it.
like card games exist and are played competitive so its kind of retarded to say that.
>>714612678Sure thing paltard
>>714655623>eSports wants to minimize randomness in order to be viable in countries where gambling is a banned form of gamingThat's bullshit or lootbox would have disappeared and they wouldn't even have SPORT in the first place since it's 50% gambling.
eSport want to minimize randomness because sport are supposed to be "fair" (regardless if we will soon use genetic augmentation that pass all drug test).
That and autist trying to defend meta they just have to follow to feel superior.
>>714656815MvM is much more tolerable if you just play bootcamp.
>>714657815It was a community tour on a custom map. No stakes, guy just acted like that for no reason
>>714657702Compet fag autist are absolutely against ANY form of randomness.
That's why they file literally EVERYTHING into "bad RNG", or make convoluted strawman that no one would ever accept, in order to pretend there's no RNG anyone would love to have.
Followed by circular logic where they defend the lack of change or novelty is proof nothing can change.
Imagine a game where both side have equal chance, but random events generate chaos that's absolutely thrilling, by their action players efforts may be impacted moderately and may lose the game, no different from a team player getting lucky or unlucky.
The SANE player will tell you the thrill of facing those events is most of the fun. Regardless if they win or lose.
The typical meta autist will tell you it's retarded and blame RNG for not making their guide-to-meta make them feel superior and validated.
>like card games exist and are played competitive so its kind of retarded to say that.Only because those are in fact mostly gambling game.
Not skill-based games with added RNG.
Few games can entirely remove randomness, even chess without timer. But the mistake is "compet fag" trying to remove everything they can't beat just following a meta.
>>714602642 (OP)Fuck off, Balance your game shithead
>>714658460Fair enough the sliver of chance of getting a shitty looking gun makes people act like total dickbags.
I care less about winning and more about enjoying my time. I don't care about what is or isn't "effective"
>>714628414>but because of the failure rate you're getting more clears in less time by playing the non-meta way.In that case the more reliable way would become the meta. Reliability is a huge factor when it comes to these things.
>>714656131I donโt talk to people in games so why should I give a fuck.
>>714602642 (OP)>teamslopIt's beyond saving, you're trying to be competitive in a non-1v1 game lol
>>714654301this sums up this entire website. every board that's even slightly responsive.
>>714658551You are cherry-picking. In reality random can be good or bad. Is it good or bad? Pic related.
People need to move to specifics for the conversation to make any sense.
Metafagging is autistic and sucks the enjoyment out of activities. This is true in tabletop games and even in sportsball games, where interest has been waning because everyone is bored of team coaches who exclusively play to the meta.
>>714602642 (OP)99% of the time meta is just some random twitch streamers opinion.
I had a metaslave friend IRL way back, it was in the context of playing DotA, it always intrigued me how my friend would so slavishly follow the metagame instead of thinking for himself. Like, he would play strong heroes, he would have a solid playstyle and buy powerful items, but ONLY because he had seen pro-gamers use those heroes, strategies, and items. If I ever suggested to him to buy a different item, for example, he would deride my suggestion as foolish because he had never seen a pro use that item. Even if you calmly explained to him that that item had a particular quality that might be useful, he would just deny, he had to see the item used in the context of the metagame before he would accept it as useful. I realized then that while a metaslave like him might become very proficient you will never truely git guud because all you're doing is copying what other people are doing, you're not thinking for yourself.
>>714602642 (OP)What if the meta changes all the time and the current meta sucks ass? I would play against the meta.
>game is released as a team based pvp skirmish with pretty simple rock/paper/scissors elements born from a variety of classes
>some mega autist figures out a synergy the developers didn't account for
>game now develops into a play/counterplay scenario wholly different from the initial pitch for the game but the players are having fun
>balance patches focus on refining the new metagame to make it both more functional and more interesting
>any other strategy the game once offered is now either gone or unusable
>anytime someone brings up these atrophied gameplay elements they are shouted down by all the people playing the game according to the now deeply established meta
>sequel is announced and it's now entirely built around the meta from the first game because fuck anyone who might have liked the idea of the initial game
>sequel is now matches playing out exactly the same fucking way with varying degrees of execution on the players part
The absolutely baffling thing is all the fags now doing this shit for PvE games now
>>714602642 (OP)Often times playing the meta can make a PvE game too easy and trivializes the things about the game that I find fun, and in multiplayer games it can make the game feel samey, if I see 50% of players using the same armor and weapon and build or whatever that shit feels bad, it's more fun when the playerbase feels diverse and every player has a unique character, it feels cancer when everyone uses the character or the build that breaks the game, not just cause it breaks the game, but also because it gets fucking boring.
>>714603043then you're a victim
>>714610517That's exactly the kind of argument my metaslave friend would make back then, he would always phrase it as the meta being set in stone and completely unavoidable, in spite of the fact that the meta constantly changed / changes, he would just ignore that part and carry on in his delusion. Like literally the next week the hero / character he was using wasn't relevant any more, he would just pretend as if it had never been relevant and ascribed an "eternal" character to the new meta.
>>714660838>Elder god tier.Themed builds, challenge builds, underdogs weapons/abilities.
>Unsalvageable shitter tier.Bulletpoint step-by-step guide to creating the biggest borderline cheating mega rapist by hogging the most borderline broken items.
>>714602642 (OP)Metafags should be torn to shreds by wild dogs.
>>714660838Brass Knight set is the best souls armor.
>>714618389I'm a Hammer>Dual Blades>Charge Blade loser and forever I will be
>>714618389>The two weapons that require a knowledge of monster moveset and understanding even a shred of positioning are bottom two.
>>714649215Genuinely curious, what would be a good example of the former? Games that are discernibly more difficult that most people will end up eschewing a ton of other options.
>>714660198The worst is I'm not.
A typical compet/meta fag will tell you "realism bad, all factors must player-controlled or insignificant"
You give them specific examples, they'll diminish the existing ones as either superficial or a niche cause if it's not a top seller. As for hypotheticals, they'll go into a mental gymnastic to never imagine a working gameplay themselves.
Take a case of weather or something else if you want.
If you want a great example of how metafagging ruins a game, just look at Destiny 2. Fucking cuckdevs gave into it too and now it's part of their content drops to change metas instead of balancing the game. Nu-gaming sucks major cock.
>>714661869>RecluseI've never seen a single weapon create so much destruction in such a short time. It also really easily exposes just what kind of shitters the majority of the playerbase is.
>>714662001I still shudder at the thought of that fucking weapon. Mountaintop as well.
>>714661607>Take a case of weather or something else if you want.shit, I forgot the thread is already past bump limit, we can't really discuss that
>>714629498>dies to removal
>>714602642 (OP)because its the antithesis of soul
you play the meta because you only have "fun" from winning
i have fun simply from playing.
i have a soul
you do not.
simple as really.
>>714621776>>714621894I recall being so annoyed that when I invaded in Elden Ring I kept seeing the same 3 weapons and the same 3 armor sets over and over and I got so annoyed that I based a whole build around using a jar canon to snipe gankers while they progressed through the level and I got more than one person seething on my DMs through that process, sorry I didn't let you spam blasphemous greatsword all over me lil bro.
>>714663245I played on some private WoW server where Rogues were really common, I was a warlock and they kept killing me so I spec'd into Demonology which basically hard countered Rogues and then I went out into the world and just waited for a Rogue to jump me and then killed him, worked almost every time.
I also effected the Meta on a different server when I hopped into battlegrounds as a Hunter with a Turtle pet and kept aggressively poking with it (Turtles had a Shield Wall like ability that made them extremely durable), 2 weeks later I saw a couple other Hunters use turtle pets in BG:s, asking for people to buff & heal their turtles lol.
>>714660838An example of how meta can ruin fun for me would have to be MHWilds, not because that game has metafags, on the contrary, it doesn't because the game is so piss easy that meta is useless, but that's the whole point, the player characters in that game are so overtuned and them onsters so undertuned that it feels like just be trying a lil hard you're already having an experience equivalent to using a broken meta build, and guess what, it saps all the fun out of the game when you're fucking broken and the game no longer has any challenge, you're just a god abusing animals, why the fuck would I play Elden Ring using the most OP weapons and spells if I know that they'll make the game into a joke? Years ago it was an unspoken rule that magic in DeS and DS1 was not a serious way to play the games because those strategies trivialized the experience so much, nowadays usig strategies that turn a game into a joke is considered valid and if you think it makes the experience of the game overall worse they say you're elititist and you need to be happy the game is "more accesible" and "has more options".
NIGGA WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT HOW MANY OPTIONS A GAME HAS IF 80% ARE SHIT AND NOT WORTH USING ANYWAY? In the vast mayority of cases, OP strategies involve like 3 very particular weapons or spells and they make the other 300 options in the game worthless, so if anything, shit game balance makes a game have LESS options, people just get defensive because they're shitters who can't play well unless they use the most broken obviously overtuned shit, yeah bro, using your katana that deals 4500 damage in half a second with insane reach is a "valid" way to beat the game but don't be surprised if I'm not impressed at your level skill.
>>714658557both soldier and sniper are cancer in the hands of 2000 hours players, sniper's advantages are far more than just "long range" nigga.
Ironically enough, you'd think 2000 spies would be far more annoying but no, if I have a swary spy dominating a match at least I can be impressed but if a sniper or soldier are doing it I'm sorry but I'm not gonna pog when the guy shoots the ground and inmediately wins or the guy shoots me from 50 kilometers away and wins.
I REFUSE to play the meta