>be 2023
>”bg3 is going to set a new standard; gaming is saved; CRPG renaissance now”
>fast forward two years
>literally nothing came out in 2024
>anything clearly inspired by BG3 just took the ERP VN movie parts, not the CRPG or actual game parts
>it’s borderline forgotten outside of “best games” lists
>CRPGs continue to be little more than half-voiced digitized board games full of crunchy eurojank
What happened?

>>714640524 (OP)
It's fundamentally impossible to make a fun CRPG. They were trash 30 years ago and they're trash now.

>>714640524 (OP)
how long do you think modern dev cycles are?

>>714640524 (OP)
>2023
>"bg3 will be a good game"
>2025
"bg3 was a good game"

>>714640602
There would at least be stuff in EA or trailers or promising indieslop by now. But nope, indies are the same pixel trash they’ve been since 2011.
>>714640587
Not all of them. Good CRPGs are possible.

>>714640524 (OP)
CRPGs are incredibly complicated games to make. BG3 was in development for 6 years and Larian has studios strategically located around the world so they can work on one game 24 hours a day.

>>714640524 (OP)
most devs can't deliver on the level of content and quality as BG3 so your only hope is superficial and surface level inspiration

>>714640524 (OP)
The secret sauce of BG3 was just incredible talent, passion, and a fairly large budget.

It was never meant to provide the template for future CRPGs, just meant to be the Gold Standard that devs will never reach.

BG3 is only artificially good

>>714640524 (OP)
solasta 2 is coming out this year i hope its even half as good as bg3.
as for AAA CRPGS, considering the state of modern development i would expect something bg3 inspired to come out until like 2028

>What happened?
The CRPG stands for Chinese RPG. The whole thing was one big astroturf.

>>714640524 (OP)
You have to consider how long BG3 was in development for. It was also funded by Hasbro. Most CRPGs are like this because of scope and budget. A CRPG having AAA budget and marketing was unthinkable before. By comparison, Owlcat games are a more realistic standard to expect out of newer CRPGs.

Sex with frogs

>>714641810
Personally I would like more CRPGs to massively crush down on their length and the amount of fights and just focus entirely on dialogue and story reactivity. The vast vast majority of CRPG fights are utterly forgettable, even in Larian games where fights are generally better designed. If they were each as well designed as the best Larian fights and heavily connected to a narrative moment, instead of fighting a dozen packs of goblins, I really wouldn't see that hurting a game very much.

I pretty much want CRPGs to gravitate more towards being Visual Novels.

>>714640524 (OP)
Low replay value. Unlike a real DnD campaign a game is always going to be stuck on rails so it's not going to keep hitting so good after the first playthrough or two. All the DnD fans have gone back to their tabletops.

>>714642408
>Low replay value. Unlike a real DnD campaign a game is always going to be stuck on rails so it's not going to keep hitting so good after the first playthrough or two. All the DnD fans have gone back to their tabletops.
Are you sure about that retard? It literally has the best retention ever for a singleplayer game.

>>714641924
BIG CUMS
FOR FROG

>>714642408
>Low replay value.
Compared to what?

botted chinese game. you're never convincing anyone otherwise chang.

I'm basic and narratively I think Shadowheart suits The Dark Urge the best, which is the only way I really play this game. Frog is a pretty good pick for a martial Tav though.

>>714642368
Retard-kun...

>>714642368
Just go play DE and fuck off away from actual CRPGs, retard.

>>714642734
Real DnD campaigns

>>714643117
So your favorite part of CRPGs is the hours and hours of basic, completely unimaginative fights against meaningless chaff?

>>714643292
Kind of a meaningless comparison but I see your point, that is a fundamental shortcoming of the genre. The only exception being if a CRPG can introduce better characters and writing/acting quality than what your friends can make up

>>714643304
Your fallacies aren't necessary. The genre you want exists. It's Visual novels and VN-likes. Go look up telltale games. they make infinite of what you want.

>>714641810
I hope not because I cannot stand owlcat’s stuff. They really take the video out of video game.

>>714642368
I understand the sentiment and think this can be achieved without casualizing the genre into VNs
age of decadence for example is a short and highly repayable game where your stats effect every single interaction. there are no filler fights, and most of them are very difficult or can be avoided with the right stats/item
check it out, it can be beaten over a weekend

>>714642758
>>714641783
Hogwarts legacy outsold Elden Ring
I don’t give a FUCK what retarded charts say

>>714643443
>>714643545
I suppose VN is the wrong genre to associate it too since the vast majority of those are garbage, I suppose I'm more associating it with the narrative strength of the top tier of VNs. The focus being a more compact experienced focused on choice and routes as opposed to just drawing out a fairly straightforward story over a hundred hours like CRPGs love to do.

But the point stands of all the most lauded CRPGs, almost all of them are praised for the story and particular bits of writing and then people go "Oh yeah the combat is kinda trash and this whole section of the game is awful but whatever"

>>714643304
Combat, encounter design, bossfights, environmental interactivity, build optimization, gear optimization, interactivity, reactivity, quest design, branching paths, player freedom, exploration, sense of adventure, map/world design, environmental/town design, writing, characters, story, worldbuilding, etc.

All of these are important to the overall experience. Disco Elysium is terrible in most of these categories.

>>714643885
>"Oh yeah the combat is kinda trash and this whole section of the game is awful but whatever"
That's more just a limitation of the genre, not a positive trait. Having a game with incredibly fun, deep, challenging, strategic, and tactical combat with theorycrafting and with teambuilding is a huge draw.

>>714643932
Yeah cool, you just listed a ton of stuff that would benefit massively if CRPGs cut down on their length and focused on a shorter but higher quality product. Why are you bringing up Disco Elysium? It doesn't even have half of the categories you mentioned. It barely qualifies as a CRPG. But for the little it does, it does benefit for being shorter so it can do more with it's limited number of builds.

If you have a 10-20 hour campaign, you can do far more to design things with replayability or choice complexity in mind.

>>714643885
>But the point stands of all the most lauded CRPGs, almost all of them are praised for the story and particular bits of writing and then people go "Oh yeah the combat is kinda trash and this whole section of the game is awful but whatever"
You're straight up retarded. You're ignoring games you want to play to wish death upon games you don't like. Your entire point hinges upon the combat being "bad" or "uninteresting" like that's not a personal opinion you hold. Nobody else is saying that.
BG3 wouldn't have the amount of replayability it does if the game wasn't so fun to play. There wouldn't be hundreds of thousands of "beating BG3 honor mode with X" videos.
You're going to deflect onto BG3 being an exception and say that they didn't do it for older games. They did, just not to the same degree because the "crpg" community was much much smaller before BG3.

>>714643885
I know what you mean. Ultimately the strength of bg3 over normal CRPGs like owlslop is that it has a total of a few dozen fights in a playthrough, and all of them have some surrounding narrative and multiple paths to resolution. But generally CRPGs have things literally called “random encounters” where you face trash mobs for no reason, sometimes even the same trash mobs on the same map. Most combat encounters in most CRPGs are the narrative equivalent of the skellige thieves caches in TW3. Just awful meaningless nonsense. If there is a fight that you can’t recall to another person that’s played the game with a name or short phrase (“the harpies”, “Raphael”, “those oil slimes that light on fire”), it has no place in the game and should be cut or fleshed out.

>>714644170
I know, that's why I'm saying more RPG should design themselves to limit that to just really well made set piece fights, to bring out the strength of the tactical combat aspect of CRPGs.

>>714644252
I prefer shorter games in general across all genres, just because they can focus more on strengths, are more easily digestible, and are more replayable.

What CRPGs are you talking about that are so long?

>It doesn't even have half of the categories you mentioned. It barely qualifies as a CRPG.
Weren't you the one saying you basically want VNs?

>But for the little it does, it does benefit for being shorter so it can do more with it's limited number of builds.
I never really felt compelled to replay it because the game eventually devolves into a jack of all trades type build because so many plot critical checks require specific skills.

To be honest, I absolutely hated the implementation of the skill points/checks system as a whole.

But yes, I do agree, games in general across all genres, but specifically arcadey/action games, are way too long. RPG games it's a bit less egregious to me because they are meant to be grand and immersive adventures with huge, sprawling worlds.

>>714644418
This. Larian games have limited number of fights with enemies that don't respawn and each combat encounter is very unique and memorable because the game has a huge amount of enemy, boss, and environmental variety, and almost all of these fights take part in context of a greater narrative/quest, instead of just being a braindead throwaway trashmob.

Larian is head and shoulders above every other CRPG dev in almost every category.

>>714644301
You seem to be under the impression I said "Remove turn based combat" for some reason. I didn't say that. I said remove random chaff to better focus on well designed ones, which would give you far more enjoyment to people who enjoy a challenge.

>>714640524 (OP)
It was a front for money laundering. Nobody actually gave a shit about this game.

>>714644542
I was so confused when I picked up WOTR based on it being the alleged gold standard for crunchiness and found out that things like height differences and basically anything involving terrain or the map doesn’t matter at all and the fights are basically over based on builds as soon as they start, with little to no fight-time strategy.

>>714644814
All of you conspiracy people don’t get that I wouldn’t care if I was the only person that ever played this game.

>>714644754
>You seem to be under the impression I said "Remove ... combat" for some reason

>>714642368
>Personally I would like more CRPGs to massively crush down on their length and the amount of fights and just focus entirely on dialogue and story reactivity.

Jump off a bridge.

Solasta 1 had some hokey writing so I won't hold my breath there, but I dope Tactical Encounter can deliver on more....tactical encounters. Being able to manipulate spells/flight on the Z axis was neat.

>>714640524 (OP)
It did set a new standard
That standard is just too high for studios with no talent or passion (apart from owlcat) to meet

>>714645043
The brainrot of anti-BG3 schizo posters is so severe its wise you dont even make contact with them. The game being successful actually mindbroke them and made them make up their own reality.

>>714644938
Making your character in WotR is really fun but then unfortunately you have to play WotR

>>714641924
>gets horny from the sheer amount of killing I do
She grew on me

>>714645084
Oh I put an 'entirely' in there. Aight that's my bad. I meant "More Heavily"

>>714645154
Real. I made a rogue and then realized that rogues in pathfinder really suck a lot (instead of being basically necessary in DND-likes)

>>714645151
This. Tendies can't stop seething, the success of BG3 is still living in their heads rent free

>>714640524 (OP)
You wont see BG3 directly inspired games until 3-4years out at a minimum due to pre-development and you absolutely wouldn't see any 'CRPG' like it of any similar scale, cost and scope with in 5 years of its release.

>>714640524 (OP)
Nobody wanted this game so the only people that bought it were the sloppiest of impulse buying stooges

>>714645681
>Minimum of 4 years for another Larian game

>>714645681
Man I hate how fucking long games take. Isn’t ai supposed to be magical instant development by now? It shouldn’t take more than a year. It isn’t that hard.

>>714645906
tends to happen when retards keep buying consoles which establish a monopoly on talent by shitting money into them for no reason

>>714645906
The hope for ai is a very publisher friendly view of the tool. Developers would hope players always ultimately want something new, while current and near future /AI/ can only pull from things that concretely exist and can be will documented. To me this means AI will be good and cloning CoD, Fortnite and FIFA games, not small genres with low output of similar titles over a decade.

>>714640524 (OP)
Solasta 2 is taking a lot of cues from BG3

Bg3 is a shit rpg. Larian just larianed it up. A fun and competent take on turn based tactical combat, muddied by the dogshit that is 5e, but they failed in everything else as they always do. The companions are utter dog shit. The story is boring and there's little actual intrigue. The bhaalspawn is the worst depiction of it ever. It falls off a cliff in the third act, as every larian game has ever done. They could have just made dos3 and it wouldve been so much better, without tarnishing a different series.

>>714640524 (OP)

>>714640524 (OP)
Oh no, did the advertising lie to you? I'm so sorry, anon. I'm always here if you want to talk about that, you know.

>>714640524 (OP)
Because CRPGs will never be a mainstream thing. With BG3 it was a lot of people riding the popularity bandwagon. Same with Expedition 33. CRPG/JRPG is not in any real danger of ever getting consistent attention from your average player not already inclined towards RPGs.

>>714646679
>half-voiced digitized board games full of crunchy eurojank
or, put more simply
>half game

>>714646782
>CRPG/JRPG is not in any real danger of ever getting consistent attention
spot on. you will always get outlier titles, but those people won't necessary proliferate to other similar games. I'd put a very low figure on people trying out pillars of eternity or pathfinder after bg3, for example. let alone other lesser known games.

>>714640524 (OP)
Entire industry is STILL afraid.

>>714646796
They're going for a lot more voice acting in Dark Heresy. More like prologue in RT.

>>714646293
You have a person guiding it into new stuff. You don’t need a magical human soul to make inventory sprites.

>>714640524 (OP)
Eating your bait thread here, it took 6 years to release BG3. Even going by Moore's Law of "technological progress increase production rates", we probably only gonna be seeing the rise of the BG3 clones by like 2027 at the earliest, most of which will be Early Access.
It's just too big a genre in these days to see a bunch of people jumping on it.

>>714646679
>same devs as WOTR
you can’t fool me twice.

>>714640524 (OP)
Crpgs are garbage anyway

Rtwp>tb

>>714647312
For real, how did Larian pull it off?

>>714647410
By the fact that all they had to do was reskin DOS2.

>>714647268
I don't think you understand how LLMs learn if you think they can make truely new stuff.

>>714647498
I’ve forgotten more about LLMs than you’ve ever known; I’m talking about asset and code generation, not narrative writing

I think some game designs and concepts are easier to bandwagon versus others. It was easy for studios to make dark souls clones, vampire survivor clones, pug clones, etc. It's harder to make a cheap Witcher 3 clone or BG3 clone that could hit the market big.

>>714647267
yeah and maybe they'll actually finish the game this time

>>714647675
What do you mean? They are finishing it, anon?
BLYAT

>>714647585
Ohh, my bad I misunderstood you yeah that would speed up dev time a lot, that's probably what Xbox games is trying to do right now.

>>714647410
>>714647483
That really did help, having their own engine they built around being heavily immersive sim-coded pretty much made it so it didn't take a lot to turn into the "Ultimate D&D Simulator". And even then, it still took 6 years to finalize and release the game in a still shaky, arguably incomplete state. Stuff like Wyll being painfully boring, the bugs, Act III being so limpdicked, it wasn't so much a grand slam as it was Larian being allowed to walk the bases to first...

Owlcat is arguably next in line for a big CRPG explosion thanks to having a pre-established engine and a lot of goodwill between the Pathfinder and WH40K games. But even then, that still took a healthy dose of Kickstarter money and the novelty of these games getting their first CRPGs (you'd think we got a Rogue Trader and Black Crusade game well before Space Hulk and a Space Hulk remake...) carrying them more. And seeing more original IP CRPGs like Pillars or Serpent in the Staglands is going to be a noooooo...

>>714647636
The failure of MindsEye is going to have such unique repercussions on the game clone industry. I don't think it was such a flash-in-the-pan cooking disaster as people are leaving it out to be.

>>714648031
I really hope Owlcat doesn't crash and burn. Big money is a bitch.

>>714648135
is the expanse actually developed by owlcat proper, though?

>>714648031
>Serpent in the Staglands
I love these two weirdoes. Get yourself a programmer/composer wife and develop vidya with.

>>714640524 (OP)
dropped after act 1. game felt too boring and easy compared to divinity games, also the writing and characters were cringe shit.

>>714648608
HE WON

>>714640524 (OP)
it was really vindicating watching Veilguard come out a year after this game, holy shit Bioware needs to be shut the fuck down

>>714649923
Imagine being Bioware, though.

>shift their games more and more towards action
>Larian starts bringing back turn-based with each new game
>CRPGs shift back to it
>you shit out Veilguard, a watered down wannabe action game

>>714646782
pretty much this, much like every nearly abandoned genre, something of high quality will come out, it'll be super popular for a month or two, people will lie and say they've always been a fan of said genre. then no one will ever talk about it again and that genre immediately goes back into hibernation, like AC6 or Tokyo Xtreme Racer

>>714650053
not only that
>remove all seriousness and add jokes every second sentence with a disgusting degree of ironic detachment like a Marvel movie
>remove all touchy subjects; no one screen slaves but plenty of talk of freeing them, treasure hunters return the treasures to natives, etc
>dont have any companions be mean to each other outside of really easily solved problems where you scold them like a elementary teacher
>everyone says its the worst written game in a decade and hard to listen to
>Larian writes normally, takes itself serious, earns a billion dollars
embarrassing shit

>>714642875
Shadowheart is the Vanilla of vidya elf mutts.

>>714650053
It's even worse because they pissed away their CRPG veteran reputation. Bioware's era has simply ended.

>>714640524 (OP)
because it was just a fade, FOMO type of game shilled by some corporation everywhere, normal fags don't like CRPG's and will never like them
>>714642675
>co-op
>single player game
why are BG3 fans so mentally ill ?

>>714650761
>bg3
>shilled
we're still believing this?

>>714651060
CHYNA NUMBAH WAN

Baldur's gate 3 was never good. It's a trash game, shilled to maximum. It's a porn novel for old wine ladies.