Cohh telling it like it is.
Why is this so hard to understand? Any arguments to counter this? Who is in the right? SKG or Pirate Software?

>>714652636 (OP)
if you make a car and your company goes bankrupts suddenly there is no one to fix it or provide spare parts. funny how that works.

what if black people existed

>>714652702
people aren't seriously this dumb, are they?

>>714652702
Games don't need fixing.
It's data. It doesn't suddenly break.
>b-b-but muh Windows update
Not a problem with the game itself.

I don't care if online multiplayer only games shut down. Anyone remember LawBreakers? Nobody cares about that game. Keep it dead.

>>714652921
>I don't care
Then why are you posting in this thread?

>>714652636 (OP)
>two if statements in the same sentence
Make it make sense

Pirate Software did nothing wrong

>>714652702
The funny thing is, if Tesla went under right this second, every fucking Tesla car would be rendered completely fucking useless lmao

>>714653019
Based brainlet

>>714653046
Teslatards deserve it

Is he actually and genuinely retarded? im always baffled when people say things like this because they are saying it more for themselves than reality.

If what hes saying is true, then videogame companies will simply not make the type of games hes trying to "save" AT all. Ever. (well they're too greedy and capitalistic to ever do that, but still you get the point)

>>714652702
don't buy a tesla then. this is how you change things
vote with your wallet

doesn't this initiative only affect games made after it and there's probably going to be some grace period after it passes like after 2030 or some shit

if you can't make your games compliant at that point while blowing millions of dollars on other shit maybe you're just retarded

>>714653217
>then videogame companies will simply not make the type of games
Oh no!

>>714653217
Oh no imagine the horror of not getting live service slop

Why is this a lost art?

>>714652702
They you rely on the third party replacements. It's common practice.

>>714653217
Always online isn't a genre. Neither is live service.

>>714652702
Video games and vehicles are not the same thing. Cars could also totally adopt more standardized shit too, but they all need proprietary stuff since every single carfag is a massive corpo/brand loving slave that thinks they're super special for sucking the hairy asshole of one specific make of car.

>>714652921
Nice cherrypicking retard
BF2 - Have to install 3rd party clients to play
BF2142 - Have to install 3rd party clients to play

I know at this point you're being a contrarian faggot and thinking "i'll just say all those games are trash, that'll counter his points".

Want to play Overwatch? Private servers that are gone when they pull the plug.
No way to make a private server, it will be dead.
All SKG is asking is when they make the decision to end support for Overwatch completely they allow people to make private servers so they can continue playing the games they bought.
They aren't asking for Blizzard to fund servers forever or..

Counterstrike 2
TF2
Most Call of Duty's
AOE2
DOTA
They all allow players to create their own instances of the game other people can connect to, whether it's Dedicated servers like CS2 and DOTA or P2P like cod.

That's literally all they need to do, just add a way to allow people to keep playing when the official support ends.

Contrarian faggots like you cherrypicking bad games as a counterargument are literally fucking other people over by downplaying what SKG is trying to do.

more like
dead disservice

>>714652636 (OP)
Ooof this podcast didn't age so well

>>714653046
or you get stop killing testa to ensure they put a system in place so people can continue using their tesla's after the company goes under.

>>714652726
It would be terrible.

>>714653737
Itmejp is still around? Haven't seen him since SC2 state of the game.

Doesn't this movement mostly affect live service/online multiplayer shit? The only game with a legitimate single player mode that got shut down is The Crew. More could shut down in the future, but yeah.

>>714653678

honestly if a company spends millions developing a game, setting up a end of life plan is likely a drop in the bucket in their budget.
and it'll only affect games that are made after it passes, so they really have no excuse not setting it up. I don't expect FFXIV to set up a end of service plan but I can only imagine the hell the backend must be like

>>714653756
but like that would be really hard for car manufacturers to do and and and

>>714653019
>if
>then
Learn to read.

>>714653891
He has a tendency of picking his internet buddies very poorly. First Adam Koebel, now PirateSoftware.

>>714652702
People are fixing 70 year old cars with no problems

>>714652702
This is false, I drive a Suzuki and my local Toyota place is happy to service it.

>>714653975

mostly, though this is to ensure future games don't get fucked over.
unfortunately, games that are out now or in development right now will likely be exempt since it might actually be a unreasonable burden. If it passes in it's ideal state though, some publishers might be willing to make their current games compliant as a PR move.

>>714652921
What about live service games, people who bought Suicide Squad can still play it offline but Anthem will become unplayable to people who bought, this should be illegal, when people buy something they should have access to such content forever

>>714653891
he's still trucking along in his small part of the twitch sphere

>>714653985
>setting up a end of life plan is likely a drop in the bucket in their budget
It's not about the budget. Apple designs its hardware to be impossible to repair not because it's cheaper that way, but because they want you to throw it away and buy a new model from them.
If people keep playing old games who's going to buy the latest AAAA slop?

>>714652636 (OP)
Imagine knowing about e-celebs. What a sad life.

Who?
I don't follow eceleb drama

>>714654108
It's not totally wrong, many car companies are trying to get more and more control. But that's more of a Right to Repair than Right to Own issue, though the two are related.

>>714654179

I mean if the most lootbox/money grab sports game still have older versions running online just fine right now, pretty sure they're not too worried about buying not buying the new sports game or whatever. People WILL switch over to the new version of the game to at least look at the new features (or look at the new roster if you're a sportsfag I guess)

>>714654286

Not cars but with phones, I remember being easily to repair older phones without an issue.
Nowadays, they're 1000% more pain in the ass to repair. I usually get stuck with fixing family shit but with phones, I just tell them to bring it to a repair shop and hope for the best, it's way too much work.
Heard Apple is much more anal about it too.
It was surreal tinkering with a Steam Deck and a lot of shit was pretty easy to work with. What a fucking contrast with the other shit we have today.

>>714652636 (OP)
>Any arguments to counter this?
Yes. Video games aren't "core cultural heritage" or any horseshit like that, it's just digital toys. This idiot is a streamer so it's in his interest to promote this idiotic shit because it's his bread and butter.

If i didn't know any better i'd say this is a push against both eastern live service games and western ones because live service wholly depends on performance month by month and it goes away if the game bombs because the constant upkeep costs are large and ongoing. Singleplayer or box games are by comparison much easier to steer and control by committee because the community aspect isn't there, the monthly active users don't matter, the upkeep costs are very low once the game is released and the numbers can be fudged in order to clown on people and trick them into thinking the games are more popular than they really are.

Live service games are also constantly under the microscope by the audience who basically votes with their wallets on a monthly basis, therefore this "stop killing games" is yet another manner of taking away the audience's voting power by sounding nice on paper but disastrous in practice.

tl;dr they cannot push propaganda if everybody is playing live service games, stop playing live service games or force unnecessary and destructive policies on game developers so they go out of business and are bought out by rat faced coin counters which can force them to make the propaganda that's needed for the plebs on a yearly basis.

>>714652702
Could you try coming up with an example that somebody who isn't a braindead retard would use?

>>714653664
It's really just that every car out there has slightly different goals and totally different engineers and they all do things a bit differently, so you get a billion different permutations of the same basic part because it has to work optimally with all the other shit they've designed.
Also, boomers and enthusiasts are the only ones who really brandfag like that, 99% of other buyers will just buy whatever is the right price and looks good to them.

>>714652702
nigga have you been to europe
people still drive shit from like 1990 and most official car service locations have partnered with third party repair shops to keep customers on their side because it's a good long term plan to get you to keep buying their brands

>>714653975
no. it has implications for all digital goods--basically asserting that when you purchase a license for a digital product you are actually buying "something" and it's not just a rightsholder giving you the privilege to access their content while reserving the right to take it back at any time, for any reason, with no recourse or refund for the consumer.

>>714652816
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/esports/call-of-duty/the-entire-call-of-duty-world-war-2-rce-hack-controversy-explained/articleshow/122249225.cms

>>714652702
Man all those classic car collectors are really lucky that their cars from 1926 are running perfectly well on original parts.

>>714652702
>there is no one to fix it or provide spare parts.
people are still repairing and driving around cars from bankrupt companies.

>>714653525
antisemitic image. ADL has been informed

>>714654752
what level of pilpul is this? always online live service games are actually our last bastion against being propagandized? you can't actually believe people are this stupid
you can call games toys, thats fine. this is about property rights, and companies being able to play "takesy backsies" at will with no recourse or refund for the customer.
and you are an extremely ineffective shill trying to muddy the waters who should be fired

>>714655278
>replying to b8

>>714652702
software isn't hardware you absolute fucking moron

>>714655220
That's because those old cars were pretty easy to repair. In the past, you could even do most repairs yourself. In most new cars, you can't even replace a broken light.
Cars have gotten better in many aspects, but some things (like repairability) have gotten far worse.

>>714652702
Have you never repaired a car before? When you replace a part, there are multiple different makers of parts. Also, its usually a bad idea to go to a company's dealership for repairs, since its always vastly more expensive.

>>714652636 (OP)
The problem is that the definition of what entails "fully usable" falls then into the hand of old fucks who have never played a video game in their life and exclusively listen to lobbyists, instead of the consumer.

If you have a game that comes with dedicated servers and a server browser, which requires a master server, which hypothetically would also be included with the game, then how do you make sure that it is accessible enough where EVERY person game use them? 95% of gamers can't even setup a functioning and hardened server if it wasn't for other people trying to streamline it for them, but then you also have a master server now that you need to change yourself; which sure, you can just replace it with someone else hosting it, but under these guidelines it has to be completely idiot proof and it has to be accessible by blind people (there's a new law next year that requires software to be completely usable by blind people).

And it's worse if you take SKG at face value. In the proposal, SKG wants every game to have an "expiration date" conveyed to the consumer, which will be the end of it's life. Nothing more, nothing less. No company will promise a legally obligated LTS that ensures that your game can run on every feasible machine for 10 years and then put out easy to use tools to maintain the support yourself. Know what they will do? They'd much rather set the expiration date of the game to 1 year, then Steam has to pull the game because it is otherwise liable, and the company will just release the same game again for another 1 year that you have to pay for again.

Furthermore, this will retroactively affect games. Do you like Deus Ex? Yeah, that will be gone, because the developer for it is defunct and because the multiplayer doesn't work. You might say "oh but there's this guide to fix the master server!" and you would be right, but this is not something that the law will consider, because it's not from the dev and not do able without a guide

>>714655278
>this is about property rights
If you buy a ticket to disneyland, do you own the whole park? Not all games are the same type of product. This is about "property rights" as much as color revolutions are about "democracy", meaning not very much, it's just the excuse that sounds good for you. Think about it, the same people who want you to own nothing and be happy suddenly care about your property?
>and companies being able to play "takesy backsies" at will with no recourse or refund for the customer.
Your opinion carries weight with DRM and always online singleplayer games, sure. But for live service games, it's a completely retarded opinion. This is just the EU larping as a regulatory "superpower" because the plebs still have some cash around which the EU can threaten global games developers with, but that cash will go out soon enough due to the economic crisis that's about to hit.

tl;dr useful idiot thinking he's fighting "The Man".

>>714655429
New cars are horrifying in the amount of ways built in to fuck you over. The computer is made to fail and everything has a subscription. Oh, and it's phoning home to your insurance company every single time you pull out of the driveway without you even knowing.

>>714655578
seethe

>>714655658
fug meant for
>>714654107
Gonna keep my car alive for as long as possible.

>>714655563
>Deus Ex? Yeah, that will be gone, because the developer for it is defunct and because the multiplayer doesn't work. You might say "oh but there's this guide to fix the master server!" and you would be right, but this is not something that the law will consider, because it's not from the dev and not do able without a guide
which btw is a good thing because devs shouldnt be able to profit off products they cant support and steam and publishers are knowingly profitting of this unethical practice

>>714655705
Thank you for conceding. "Muh save bideo gaymez". Bunch of useful idiots.

>>714652702
>this is your average anti stop killing games representative

>>714655745
lol seethe forever

>>714653429
anyone who says they're not enjoying progression, xp, numbers and bars going up, is deluding themselves
video games only got popular with normies starting with these things

>>714655578
watching shills scramble to come up with a good narrative warms my heart. disneyland analogy buddy? do better.....

>>714655939
still seething

>>714652636 (OP)
there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to charge people for an online game that depends on your company not going under as long as customers know what they're getting into

>>714652702
'cord-invite please. I thought we were only making food analogiouses?

It's funny watching gamers relitigate Tivoization all over again

That ship sailed decades ago, whole genres of software are now just web browser shells making calls to a remote server
And they get away with it because you cucks just give them money for nothing

>>714652702
retard

>>714652636 (OP)
>Why is this so hard to understand?
It isn't. You're not arguing with people who lack understanding, you're arguing with people who are being paid to smother consumer rights movements under garbage talking points. Worse, some of them bootlick for free.

You didn't think it was odd that no matter how many threads on this issue we've had, these people come right back in the next one spouting the same shit?
>The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again.

>>714653985
>i dont expect games like FFVIV to set up an end of service plan
why not? Private servers already exist of it, and exist/have existed for pretty much every MMO. Once you wanna take it down just release the server data to the public and let it be without legally pursuing it / make it just a single licensing fee that the server host has to buy to legally operate the private server. From there the community can do whatever the fuck they want with it.

>>714653525
because people content playing ARMA 2 are less likely to buy and pay for ARMA 3... but if ARMA 2 was not an option, then... people are more likely to buy NEXT GAME

jesus christ looks at COD recently.. like 4 (5?) new fucking games in the past 5 or 6 years... all MTX up the ass and WE LOVE FORTNITE skins now.. disgusting

>>714656291
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T ASK THIS IT'S IMPOSSIBLE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>714653525
This
>it's no longer profitable to host the official servers
>hand over the official means for people to host shit by themselves
it's that easy, reminder that back in the days of old server browser was pretty much expected to be included if your game had a multiplayer component

>>714652702
If that happens the last thing my car will run over will be the CEO's head

>>714656291
You need to be castrated fashist pig

>>714655903
>anyone who says they're not enjoying progression, xp, numbers and bars going up, is deluding themselves
those things aren't exclusive to live service games you fucking retard

>>714655140
>timesofindia.indiatimes.com

>>714655903
Incorrect, zoomer and faggy take.
This is true only in third world shit holes.

>>714655658
Still doesn't make sense, because servicing/repairing a car for profit by a third party company is not illegal in any sense and neither is it mandated by law for 3rd parties to do repairs for you outside of delivery issues, ie. received a broken car. It also doesn't consider that you can buy a very old car for which the manufacturer doesn't even exist anymore, where you basically have no righs due to common sense.

Software works very differently. Video games are compiled into machine code and are quite literally walled off by nature, without even considering the additional mechanism of anti cheat modules. They are not open source (besides mono based ones), which means you have to tamper with it by reverse engineering if you want to fix anything. By that point you've already broken 3 property laws that pertains to software. Now imagine selling your "fix" for commercial purposes ie offering "repairs". Do you really want to go to prison for +10 years? Additionally, how would you even hold people legally accountable if we disregard the fact that it already is illegal? So there's this game, which has features that doesn't work but modder X fixed them for free; can the game now legally be sold again because he "repaired" it? is X now legally accountable and is forced to maintain repairs because otherwise he will be responsible that the game doesn't work? This whole car part analogy is completely fucking retarded and would only work if every game was open source and had a github with democratically elected reviewers - right after abolishing property laws.

>>714653019
>If you can't make game
>If your company went under
>Then maybe
Maybe get your glass checked.

>>714653081
Maybe try to actually answer the question instead of going straight to ad hominem to try and make yourself feel superior so your ego can disregard a question you can't answer?

>>714653891
don't think he's going to make it to 40. he got really fat and one night without his cpap would be a death sentence.

...

>>714652636 (OP)
Cohh carnage seems like the kind of guy to beat his wife and kids when the stream goes off and then tells them it's their fault and it they learn we'll stop hitting them

>>714653525
>>714652636 (OP)
Everyone uses Unreal Engine now. They can't do this.

>>714652636 (OP)
Even this is a nonstarter as there is no such type of game. If your live service/online only model game is going end of life you could easily release one final patch and let people host their own servers, or even an offline local server.

>>714652702
good bait I'll give it up

>>714652702
>if the hospital you were born in closes
>you get unborn
Merciful god....

I hope the petition does not succeed. Gamers are genuine putrid scum that deserve every harmful thing done to them.

>>714653525
Devs only know how to follow the rails set on by industry standard engines.
There's zero creativity left in the space and only code monkeys that follow orders.
If you decide to do something cool you'll be reprimanded and possible lose your job, because "we're not paying you to make cool shit Rajesh".

>>714652636 (OP)
>July 5
Cohh was one of the few people who called Pirate out with his "Don't listen to anyone about SKG, read about it and form your opinion, my opinion? It will help us and in the MINUTE extreme cases, it doesn't hurt anyone that doesn't want to hurt us"

It's a real shame /ourguy/ isn't popular with zoomies

>>714656756
you can obviously build and release dedicated servers with ue

>B-BUT WE WANT TO PLAY BATTLEBORNE AND CONCORD AND AND DON'T FORGET THE CREW!!

>>714656770
>If your live service/online only model game is going end of life you could easily release one final patch and let people host their own servers, or even an offline local server.
Not compliant with the law.

Oh so you want to install arch linux, postgresql, the server itself, setup the firewall and a magnitude of other tools? Sure, here you go buddy. I'm sure 90% of zoomers could do it, even though most of them don't even know what folders are or how zip files work. Real servers aren't just *.exe files, they have complete ecosystems and processes attached to them from many other services. Like what do you think sysadmins even do

>>714653525
fucked up that the companies that made all these games all went under because of this

>>714657041
Your absolute faggot babble is directly the opposite of reality. Tons and tons of games have always had user hostable servers, dedicated server clients.

Why are you so dedicated to being a liar?

>>714657094
Have you ever hear pirate say anything even remotely truthful?

I see a lot of pil pul happening with something that's rather simple

>>714653678
BF1943 my beloved. :(

>>714655140
>indian
lmao, but also the RCE shit isn't an issue with the fan patches but the problem with the fan patches is that activision likes to take them down so the only option you have is the official servers that have exploits like this

>>714655578
That's a horrible analogy. Giving players the ability to host private servers after a game dies isn't the equivalent of letting them own the entire IP

A better analogy is like Ross said, you buy a bike, the bike manufacturer want to shut down that bike, so they break into your house and slash your tires. Then it turns out those specific tires are special and cannot be repaired unless you have specific instructions, which the bike manufacturer has and can easily provide but refuses to release to anyone, so no one can repair them to make your bike functional and now the bike you paid for is permanently unusable

Anyone who thinks a server is raw source code needs to stop talking. It is a bundle of compiled code no different to what installs on your computer/console along with tables and maybe some assets. It is basically just a 2nd half of what you have installed. There is zero reason a corporation cannot package that server kit in the last stable working version for others to host if it is so fundamentally intertwined with the game. Otherwise if all the server is doing is validation checks that is easy for them to code out of a final offline version update to push out. There is no valid technical reason behind why they cannot do these things.

>>714657094
Most of which would not be compliant with the law, are you retarded or something?

Deus Ex has dedicated servers, but is not compliant with the law because the master server functionality is dependant on someone hosting it for you, even though you yourself could host it through someone elses means, ergo it is considered legally a defunct product. Most dedicated servers on Steam require SteamCMD, which is not legally compliant either because now this hinges on Steam providing infrastructure as well. Even if it doesn't, most of dedicated servers do not fulfill the accessibility requirement. You're thinking about this like a 12 year old who thinks "oh I'll just download x, look at guide y and then I get a working server", but this is not how it legally works, because putting a legal requirement on it means that it has to be usable by literal BLIND people and TECH ILLITERATE people.

You stupid niggers are expecting the most good faith result here that's somehow only going to affect products you won't like. This sounds like the No Mans Sky craze all over again, where you people are expecting a bazillion things that aren't even discussed or considered. Wanna see good faith? Steam had to remove over 40% of games in Germany because they were too old and could not be classified for the german government. What a "good" thing that was huh. The anti-gacha guidelines from the EU? yeah, 60% of it good, but oh wait it also says that games with political themes such as pro-facism are illegal now and doesn't fall under any artistic freedom. Print this post and frame it; by 2030 everyone will hate the EU for being an oppressive mass surveillance union that fucks up everything and this shit will make video games a worse live service hell than we already had. I hope you will enjoy having your yearly Elden Ring re-releases because they now have an incentive to offer subscriptions.

>>714657738
Your faggot schizo babble is still absolute nonsense. There is no
>muh law
to speak of here. Dedicated server clients used to be an industry standard.

>>714657738
>is not compliant with the law
which law, faggot? I didn't read the rest of your post btw.

>>714652636 (OP)
Are these all bot threads or something?

>>714652952
See this reads like a bot, no substance.

>>714657738
>spews incoherent babble that makes no sense
>you retards
>spews more incoherent made up bullshit
Jason.. I mean Thor, is that you?

>>714657729
>a server is code
The dumbest thing I have ever read on here, no way a real Human being wrote this.

>>714653217
actually what will happen is a company will simply make a live service game but provision it with the ability to be played offline/on third party servers at it's EOL

>>714658059
Are you retra-
Nevermind, we know the answer thanks to your "little" tantrum over the past two weeks ;)

>>714658102
Do you understand the difference between source code and compiled code?

crazy that these threads are allowed. Usually industry plants can get special protections on 4chan and be autofiltered

>>714652921
1) Single player games can have online functionality like leaderboards that could give a company an excuse to kill them when it's no longer in their interest to have them running
2) Always online DRM
3) Even shit games like LawBreakers should be preserved, if only for game research purposes. Sometimes, playing shit games and figuring out what they did wrong is helpful in video game development

Are you dumb niggers still talking about this dramafest? You guys know this is a coordinated campaign/feud to drive up views right?

>>714655903
what does that have to do with the topic? RPGs aren't typically GaaS slop

>>714653525
close your eyes nigga these never existed

>>714652702
Anon actually introduced a good point here, because this is exactly why Right to Repair dovetails so nicely alongside SKG.
If you're a company that makes shit so that if the customer can't repair their product - car or otherwise - without you, then no maybe about it. You shouldn't be in business.

>>714652636 (OP)
>Oh look a spineless cuck is agreeing with the popular opinion

>>714656756
They can. Satisfactory has one and it's UE5.

>>714658538
>retard who wants his things taken from him calling anyone else a cuck.
kek,

>>714652702
The difference with a car is that when the company goes under, they don't send people to your house to repossess the engine without compensation.

>>714655140
>https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com

>>714658667
I just hate when these pg-13 bot streamers try to be political all of the sudden.

>>714653525
You want to kill jews.

>>714652702
>Toyota or Suzuki went under
>"Welp, that's it folks, we're closing the company. Let's visit every single of our customer. We need to take their car away"

>>714658962
Imagine people actually arguing for that

This whole thing boils down to people understanding backend software & development vs. people who do not.
Most of reddit, /v/, youtube etc. belongs to the latter.

I agree with SKG completely, but this movement will completely fail if the people backing it don't drop their preconceived notions on backend development and don't start to see the problem for what it actually is: a nuanced issue that cannot be solved only by one-sided legislation and consumers demanding stuff.

All you need to do is drop the live-service shit from the demands. It will *never* happen. It is financially, technically and security-wise *not* feasible.
Focus on the functionally single-player games with online components. *This* is what will work. No reason to shut down an effectively single-player game over optional online functionality. I.e. The Crew situation should never have happened by law.

But you're not winning on the live-service argument and risk losing the whole case on this alone.

>>714652702
You can still use the car though, you fucking retard.

>>714659016
I work with server monkeys for my job and have to work alongside them for certain things.
What part of it would be impossible?

>>714659016
>This whole thing boils down to people understanding backend software & development vs. people who do not.
I guess >>714653525 proves you're in the latter camp. FAGGOT.

>>714658962
That's why companies like John Deere implemented kill switches instead.

>>714659016
>Denial
>Anger
>Bargaining (YOU ARE HERE)
>Depression
>Acceptance

>>714659108
Nothing. Thats a chatGPT shill post from an Indian.
The crux of the issue only comes into play when the publisher or independent dev decides that their product is EOL. They never lose any money. They never lose players. They just make a final release allowing players to continue playing on private or local servers when they no longer wish to support the title themselves.

>>714659174
It's been pretty funny watching the corporate shillposts follow this exact pattern in real time.

>>714652702
That shit should be illegal, too. People used to be able to repair their own cars, and manufacturers hated that shit so as soon as they could they started to make it harder, bordering on impossible. Not because cars got meaningfully more complex, either. Good example of how the market won’t regulate shit and needs government oversight not to screw the buyers.

>>714659135
Did they?

>>714659291
>Good example of how the market won’t regulate shit and needs government oversight not to screw the buyers
The market HAS government oversight.

>>714659294
Yes. Modern JD tractors and even smaller mowers are heavily computerized and they made exhaustive efforts to prevent owners from doing repairs. This was a huge issue because you needed a JD tech to come fix your equipment in person, and their pricing is insane.
I own a small faggot green machine, and a Kubota. I like the Kubota more.

>>714659016

>>714652702
I drive a Pontiac (defunct for over a decade now) and got in a minor crash the auto shop and body shop got all the parts just fine

>>714655563
It just has to be possible to set up a private server, which used to be standard practice.
>this will retroactively affect games
No it won't

>>714659645
thats because the body shop illegally sources original parts from a sweatshop in china sweetie

>>714659647
>>this will retroactively affect games
>No it won't
It could

>>714659708
Allowing a game to be fully playable even after EOL would only increase lifelong sales

>>714659703
dude told me he just went to a junkyard
heck, I've even went to a couple junkyards for a piece here and there

>>714659708
The whole initiative literally says it's not retroactive, why do you fucks just make this stuff up?
Not that I have a problem with applying it retroactively, because publishers should eat shit and release their stuff to the public, but at least be honest about what the proposal says.

>>714652702
Truth Nuke analogy

>buy a house
>the construction company decides it no longer wants to build houses like yours
>your house is demolished
You got to live in your house for years though so didn't you get your money's worth?

>>714659892
This. There are surprisingly good parts in junkyards because retards throw their entire car away because the alternator broke. Fucking retards.

>>714659108
Simple: Do you think creating an online game with a dedicated server/P2P capability happens for free?
It must be designed, architected and developed from the ground up to support that use case. Depending on the game this can get very expensive, for live-service games it becomes an unreasonable technical & financial burden.

Modern live-service games do not operate with a simple server that you can simply provide as a standalone binary to consumers. You have an entire microservice landscape running in the backend. You have security, authorization, validation etc. and other sensitive legal requirements that do not boil down to a naive "just release the dedicated server". Often you have sensitive internal libraries used in those services that you cannot distribute due to licensing restrictions. Other times you cannot distribute it due to security restrictions. Allowing anyone in the world to poke around in your APIs? That's a one way ticket to getting your shit hacked.

Again, none of these are issues with cases like The Crew. The single-player component should be decoupled from any of it.
For live-service games this is a very different story. Any other questions?

>>714659134
>A list of old, simple games that all were designed from the ground up with a dedicated server in mind
Cool, I would love to see more of this. But none of those are live-service games.

>>714659174
?

>>714659234
>They just make a final release
No, *this* is the crux of the issue.
>Oh yeah you just patch that in bro. Just a quick bugfix to make your entire service infrastructure work on everyones computers. Its just 2 lines of code bro just commit it to main haha
Refer to my original post. You are part of the latter, tech-illiterate group.

>>714659703
Low IQ urbanite faggot detached from reality

>>714659892
Correct.
There are massive junk yards where you can just walk through and pull off any parts you want. Theres a really big one I have frequented called French Lake Auto. Pretty fun to spend a day there, even if for just collecting memorabilia. Old emblems and the like.

>>714660012
houses all have the same parts in them and are not overly reliant on 1 supplier which games and cars mostly are

>>714660012
If the house was in VR maybe, your example is just retarded

>>714652636 (OP)
but but but... jason is not disagreeing with the idea anon! you misunderstood him desu!
he just disagrees with the language, fr fr!
its not a damage control. he really just thinks it could be worded better. thats all!
leave jason alone

>>714659901
>The whole initiative literally says it's not retroactive
It does not matter what the initiative says though.

>>714660128
It's exactly what happens with the games this initiative is talking about thoughever

>>714659016
I just want LAN options.

>>714660053
Reduction to the absurd proves you're a disingenuous shill
It is in fact a trivial matter to allow users to host their own servers when you are literally ending all support for a title

>>714660053
>But none of those are live-service games.
The online components of those games were "live service", the only difference between them and GaaS games is that they put more of the game serverside. It is not technically infeasible to release server infrastructure to the public after EoL, they're just loath to hand over free access intellectual property under any circumstances, in which case they can just refuse to make live service games if this goes through. Simple as that.

>>714652702
>if you make a car and your company goes bankrupts suddenly there is no one to fix it
And if game bugs are found after the developers have died or abandoned the game. Then no one can expect them to bug-fix the game.
That doesn't mean the game itself should be rendered unplayable the moment the devs pulls the plug.

>>714660053
ALL online games, as a necessity, have server software designed to emulate the server environment for use in QA testing that can be run on relatively simple hardware.
There is no reason for the developer to not release a (possibly locked-down) version of this software after the game hits end of life.

>>714656160
car analogies are a german thing

>>714655424
See Louis Rossmann and his Right to Repair movement, he covered Stop Killing Games as well
The convergence comes

>>714660175
but it does matter what you say?
fuck off shill

>>714657041
>Not compliant with the law.
good thing the new law will address that :)

>>714652702
>Buy car
>car needs software to run, for some reason
>company decides they don’t want to support my car anymore
>shut my car down
>can’t drive it anymore
>company doesn’t provide any instructions that anyone can use to make it functional again
>literally no one on the planet knows how to make car functional again except the car manufacturer, which refuses to release any information

>>714657041
>most people don't know how to do it anyway, so it's okay to fuck them over :)
Serious question, have you ever been tested for sociopathy? Or are you just desperately bargaining at this point?

>>714660201
Look, I'm all for online games enabling this. A well-designed online game should support this simply by being well designed software.
Fact of the matter is: live-service games are a different breed and often not well designed to the point where local hosting is an option. And sometimes it's just plain unreasonable to release sensitive internal binaries from a legal perspective.

If I write a piece of software and I use a library that in its license agreement states that I may not distribute the binary then I'm fucked.
You could consider replacing the library with an open source solution, or write your own, but that is again potentially very very expensive.

>>714660227
Why is it absurd?
>Because I say so
Is not an argument

>>714660243
>in which case they can just refuse to make live service games if this goes through. Simple as that.
Look, I get it. I don't even remember the last time I touched a live-service game.
But this is a losing point in court. You *cannot* win this legally.
So what I'm saying is to cut your losses and try to focus on the games that are actually a winnable issue.

>>714660303
I listed 3 reasons for not releasing those, have you even read my post at all? Or did you just emotionally react to the first sentence?
>Legal repercussions for releasing sensitive licensed libraries
>Security concerns for releasing internal tools & APIs
>Work required to have the binary actually work on *any* machine, not just the QA containers, and the large financial cost of having to do so
Why don't you contend with the argument instead half-wit?

>>714660493
https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/how-it-works_en
All that happens is that the commission will talk about the initiative and maybe make a law.
If they decide to make a law, it does not matter what the initiative says/what the backers of the initiative want.
>fuck off shill
I support SKG. I'm just sick of retards spouting nonsense.

>>714660586
google Fisker. the same will also happen to tesla

>>714652702
car company goes bankrupt, woopee

- they dont sue their past consumers for trying to make their own parts to fix their cars after they stop making that model
- usually they publish their repair manuals so that people can fix their own cars if they want and dont sue them for it
- car doesn't stop working if a wifi connection to the dealership goes out (unless you're a tesla cuck) and they dont sue them for altering their own car to make it drive anyway

Your analogy is dogshit and you should commit ritual suicide as soon as physically possible

>>714653042
read the picrel. he flat did not understand what he was criticizing and doubled down 5x. you're defending a furfag nepo baby. nice bait.

>>714660679
>I support SKG. I'm just sick of retards spouting nonsense.
sure you do, you're totally not trying to "im totally suporting this! BUT" divide and conquer

>>714660675
>But this is a losing point in court. You *cannot* win this legally.
You have yet to state a concrete reason why it's a losing point, just that it is because... Well it just is okay?!

>>714652806
Unfortunetly they are. Perhaps Jews are right? Maybe most of humanity is dumb like cattle and deserve the abuse?

>>714657041
>I'm altering the law. Pray I don't alter it any further.

>>714660675
Oop, he's back to the second stage. Cool it with the insults, mate, that's not how you make a good argument!

>>714660053
>Simple: Do you think creating an online game with a dedicated server/P2P capability happens for free?
No, but any good software designer worth their salt would budget, allocate resources and dedicate time during the design process to do this so no additional costs would occur.
>It must be designed, architected and developed from the ground up to support that use case. Depending on the game this can get very expensive, for live-service games it becomes an unreasonable technical & financial burden.
Like? Anon, you are talking to someone who has had to design pipelines to ensure data security and safety, plus a distribution method of data analytics in real time for a complex industry, designing from the ground up the requirements for workstation compatible and server compatible software is not that difficult nor expensive. At most, it would take the most out of the budget researching and negotiating with any required boilerplate 3rd party micro-services to plug and play with. The server monkeys only ask that much from me.
>You have security, authorization, validation
This is how I know you are talking out your ass, half of those things are not required on private, community hosted servers and if your code base cannot decouple from that service you are fucking retarded, because what happens when you want to change third party service providers? Does the game industry REALLY expect me to believe that they don't follow basic software compatibility standards when dealing with third party code, that they have to refactor their entire codebase to suit the needs of their third party microservices instead of the other way around?

I'm not saying it wouldn't be work, but these are design issues that I have to deal with whenever a new project is introduced at the company I work for. You are such full of fucking shit.

>>714660736
>you need a subscription for an electric vice to squeeze a bag
People really need to be executed by the state for some shit like this

>>714660729
If you read my posts you will actually see the exact reasons why, I posted several of them. But I get it, reading is not a talent of yours, so I'll link my posts knowing full well that you will not contend with any of my arguments here because you can't.
>>714660675
>>714660053
>>714659016

>>714660802
To be fair, Juicero flopped pretty hard because even normalfags understood how stupid the premise was.

>>714657041
By the way, Arch Linux is the fucking worst for server based software since it is a rolling release distro, which is unstable. Debian servers are better since it is a fixed point system and usually keep the most secure versions for years at a time.
You are such a fucking cocksucker.

>>714660802
a juicer that doesn't juice anything might be the single greatest scam in history

>>714652702
I don’t get it. Can someone describe it to me using a food analogy?

>>714652702
not true, the replies to this about tesla are especially dumb because tesla did go under in 2013, we were contractually obligated to retain all parts and all lines ready to run, we just weren't running them regularly
even after program contracts end, we need to keep the dies run-ready for 5-10 years to do small runs just for parts to repair with
then typically the dies go in to storage just in case we need them 30 years from now
the more you know

The movement really shows the ignorance of the consumer and the impossible demands they have on developers when they don't know how hard it would be to implement if they had even an ounce of development know-how. Also, for those who hate planned obsolescence, doesn't having a plan exit if your product fail another form of self-defeatist planned obsolescence. I'm sure most people that go into a new venture like opening restaurant go like "Let me save enough in case I fail so I can do something else" or like most cases go all in because it was their passion project and try to make it work to the best of their ability. It might sound smarter for the former but the latter is what you see most people do.

>>714661037
Stop trying, pajeet

>>714660880
>arch linux is the fucking worst because it is up-to-date
>debian is better because it is outdated by half a decade or more

>>714661037
>waaah doing my job is hard
then get an easier job for retards. stop trying to rape people.

>>714661015
it doesnt matter if youre contractually obligated if there is no money left. if people dont get paid they dont produce the parts simple as

>>714652702
>>714653664
Cars usually have manuals on how they work and how to fix them. Even if the manufacturer or support has ended.
And if you fix your car and share with others how to fix it, you aren't in trouble of being C&D or sued(private servers etc.)

>>714655903
>progression and xp is exclusive to live service slop
How old are you? lmao

>>714661037
>You're a developer. Deal with it.

>>714652702
>Data can break down as easily as a car part.
>There are no 3rd party replacements anywhere.
.Car breaking down is the same as buying a car and then have the company turn off it's functions in the near future rendering it useless.
I wish you retarded zoomers offed yourselves en masse, that way the IQ of this planet would skyrocket.

>>714660883
>juicer
>it's literally just a DRM machine that opens a bag of juice
>easily bypassed with enough arm strength or a pair of scissors
I still have no idea where the fuck they found investors for that shit.

>Hire building firm
>Ask them to build me a house
>They do
>Move in
>2 years later
>The builders come to my house
>They inform me that my house is no longer financially viable for them
>I get evicted
>They demolish my house

>>714661008
>someone sells you a juicer
>the juicer is always online and requires software updates and an app from the juicing company to run
>one day the juicing company ends all support for the app
>your juicer stops working
>juicing company provides zero instructions for someone to rebuild or support the app independently so juicer is impossible to repair
>400 dollars stolen
This was real btw it was called Juicero
>>714660736

>>714661123
nigger i work in the industry i'm explaining to you exactly what happened when tesla did go under in 2013, we put it in to small contracts status
you needed parts, we would run a small order
if we don't do this we literally get fined
we run all repair orders at a loss, but the loss is lower than a fine

>>714661224
>I get evicted
No, no, they wait until you go out somewhere and then demolish it with all your shit inside.

>>714661220
VC funding is crazy as fuck. People with collectively billions of dollars who know nothing about tech will just throw money at full blown retard ideas so long as the pitch is good enough.
You, literally you, yourself, could lie convincingly enough to fund a total dead end project, and then walk away with no personal losses.

>>714652636 (OP)
A NEW ARGUMENT ENTERS THE RING

>>714661270
Or "people" complaining about having to sleep in a cold bed because the server of their Smart Bed(tm) is down.

>>714660780
Fuck it, I'm mad, I want to tear this fucking argument to shreds.

One example I can point to for a recent and relevant example is that our document management system relied on a dumb as fuck third party service provider who said that local workstations wouldn't be able to save local copies of anything that they put into the DMS, meaning that any edits and new versions need to be basically recreated from scratch. This pissed me and the document writer team so much that we started to talk with the other teams on how fucking BULLSHIT that this is. So, we started shopping around for other fucking providers and talked with the server team. At most, they said that they would need to work on editing what type of calls are being sent from workstation to third party services, seeing that they have done all of the heavy lifting on what the user sees and the basic as FUCK functionality. The refactoring process is only updating what type of calls are made, if that. We found a provider that wasn't FUCKING RETARDED and allowed for editable local versions of the documents that are IMPORTANT to this type of industry since it included policies and safety instructions. They were also open enough to edit their services to meet the requirements we need of documents including tagging, sorting, design review process etc. that all had to be custom code. You wanna know the most expensive part of it? The fucking on call for issues for the service itself, NOT the way our servers called them.
I will not fucking stand another fucking minute of the gaming industry pretending that the microservices cannot be decoupled from the code for it to use basic functions. I refuse to believe that fucking apes run the games industry and get to be developers on multi-million dollar projects.

>>714661078
You absolute fucking monkey, you utter fucking buffoon. I will rape the fucking shit out of you.

>>714661405
I support this rapist

>>714652636 (OP)
Counter what? You can't counter nonsense, that sentence holds no logical value

>>714652636 (OP)
wow... even brotherman, the biggest fence sitting le positive vibes guy of all time

>>714661337
This is the result of hundreds of years of unchecked capitalism btw

>>714661270
>Try to reverse engineer the juicer so you can set up private servers and online connection
>The company sends you a C&D because you broke their EULA

>>714661591
No its just jewish and soviet bolsheviks did equally stupid shit just because they were giving money to other charismatic lying jews
Its human nature to deceive and be deceived

>>714652702
>analog is like digital
Nigga, how old are you?
That's braindead boomer logic you are applying here.
We can copy/paste anything with digital goods. As long as there is a mechanical/hardware that can even emulate something, that digital product will never be lost, as long as MOTHERFUCKING CORPORATIONS do not erase the fucking product from the internet (and even than, they fail).

>>714652702
Games dont get worn down through mechanical usage, you braindead ape

>>714660780
You misunderstand my position. If it were me even live-service games would be playable offline. I've designed every single software component I've ever built with that in mind simply because it makes local development, mocking & testing so much better. But I don't live in dreamland, it's not realistic to legislate this.

>No, but any good software designer worth their salt would budget, allocate resources and dedicate time during the design process to do this so no additional costs would occur.
I 100% agree. But you're contradicting here.
The budget, resources & dedicated development time ARE additional costs, and you should carry those by law? Also you're not talking to a single group of developers. Large AAA companies have many teams, so all of their products would have to abide by this law. And you would need additional resources to verify that these laws are followed by all teams & software products. All of this is cost.

>you are talking to someone who has had to design pipelines to ensure data security and safety, plus a distribution method of data analytics in real time for a complex industry, designing from the ground up the requirements for workstation compatible and server compatible software
You're talking to someone who architected & developed entire service landscapes for some of the largest companies in europe. Your simple software examples are not impressive to me nor do they address the requirements of large live-service games.

>half of those things are not required on private, community hosted servers
And you think the decoupling comes for free? Does QA keep testing for dedicated server capability? Who pays them to do so?

>if your code base cannot decouple from that service you are fucking retarded
They make live-service games, of course they're retarded. But you cannot legislate this.

I see you have at least *somewhat* of an idea how things work, but you're still not fully there. I'll take your ad hominem as a concession.

>>714653525
DELETE THIS

>nooooo having offline is literally impossible!
>nooooo it would take months and milions of dollars to make it offline!
>nooooo muh developerinos!
you are brown
post hands

>>714661975
chad post

>>714652636 (OP)
It's strange that he thinks publishers care about anything but money in money out

>>714661830
you're a bootlicking nigger and nobody gives a fuck about the costs incurred by following the law. companies are also losing money when they are forced to provide insurance to employees, are you shitting and pissing over that too? Want to remove insurance policies from all companies so they can save a penny? That it shouldn't be legally forced upon them because of profit margins?
maybe spend this energy sucking the actual cock of your actual boss and maybe he will give you an extra 15 minutes on your lunch break to wipe your mouth out after. What a treat.

>opinion of some nigger streamers
when did things become like this lol
why do we need to discuss what some manchildren that play fucking game for living have to say?

>2035
>everything requires a subscription service and is always online
>can’t open door to house because I couldn’t download the door patch because internet was down
>can’t turn on lights because the company that supports the app to keep my lights on shut down
>can’t use my Smart Fork to eat my food because the Smart Fork Company raised its subscription fees so now my Fork is permanently blunted until I pay

>>714662119
>at least I paid my gun subscription
>go to kill myself
>*click*
>firing pin subscription expired. cannot activate striker, please update payment method

>>714652636 (OP)
>comment out the function that calls for online validation
>game is now playable forever
unless your a jeet you can do this in 5 seconds

>>714661975
Im pretty sure its just people attention seeking, the same reason piratesoftware went against it because being a contrarian makes you look totally smart because you're seeing something everybody else isn't (midwits make this their entire lives)

>>714652702
Make this argument to game lobbyists and see how they respond and if they try to correct you.

>>714662057
>why do we need to discuss what some manchildren that play fucking game for living have to say?
cause they have a platform that reaches tens of thousands of people, including people with some actual power.
And sometimes if they say something stupid, we can all have a laugh.

>>714661830
>The budget, resources & dedicated development time ARE additional costs,
No it fucking isn't, if you go in designing these things from the start then that's just the cost of the project itself. I highly, highly, highly fucking doubt that performing an offline build, which is necessary for the construction of software in a safe reliable manner to allow for collaborative changes to necessary components before going live. You are going to tell me that you test server capabilities in a live environment? Fucking please. You also trying to get me to believe that you don't design basic as fuck functionality to only be updated alongside microservices depending on their API calls or what they required to be spun up server side? Bitch please.
>And you think the decoupling comes for free? Does QA keep testing for dedicated server capability? Who pays them to do so?
If you designed it from the start with smart server calls and functionality, it shouldn't cost you anything additional since that would be called basic requirements and once you have gotten a procedure or standard, it's easy to transfer those kinds of things into future development. For your first live-service-to-offline game it would be a challenge, but afterwards like you would do with any legacy code base, you would take what you learned to make future projects more efficient, better and standard.
>They make live-service games, of course they're retarded. But you cannot legislate this.
Too bad, the rest of the software industry has to deal with legislation regarding the handling of data, what type of data can be collected and the voluntary opt in nature of data collection, vidya gayme apes should suck it the fuck up.
>I'll take your ad hominem as a concession.
NIGGER, I'm only mad because I'm sick of you monkeys thinking that you are special for being in the games industry or working on SaaS products. You're not, you are a monkey.

>everyone is suddenly concerned about budgets but it's okay for publishers to waste tens of millions on marketing

>>714662436
Hundreds of millions on marketing for AAA titles.
Tens of millions per year for C suite
Tens of millions for worthless HR departments
>b-b-but giving the player the ability to enjoy the game forever would bankrupt us!!!!!!!

>>714662436
nobody is concerned about publisher budgets. it's shillbots. imagine trying to defend some company's costs when you have no affiliation. it's deranged and not real. like if someone started saying there's too much ketchup on their McDonald's and Ronald himself should be saving more money

>>714662046
Look, even if you *somehow* convince the court to legislate how a company is supposed to develop their software, you are not getting around the legal and security issues of distributing internal sensitive software components.
If my license agreement says you are not allowed to distribute my binary then you're done, the argument ends right there.
And I refuse to distribute any binary containing sensitive APIs that would allow anyone to poke around in my future games/software/infrastructure. This point is not winnable either in court, as it also pertains to sensitive user data.

But thank you for elucidating that not only do you not know what you're talking about, you also get defensive and frustrated when your weak beliefs are challenged and you fail to come up with a retort. I'm done responding to you now, have a nice day.

>>714662436
Yup, finally someone is making sense. Cut the fuck out of your retarded ass HR and marketing departments that waste money on stupid as fuck shit to promote the game and you will suddenly find money to support your developers. All of these niggers talking about cost while culling developers left right and center are MBA fuckwits that don't understand to make line go up, you gotta have something people are willing to buy. People don't buy advertising or DEI within your workplace, they buy fucking products.

Pirate Software is a narcissistic nepo baby who thinks he's always the smartest guy in the room. Well I'm stronger, faster and smarter than him and if I ever see him in real life then I will beat him to death with my bare hands because he's an annoying fucking faggot. Best way to deal with midwit pseudointellectuals is just punch them in the head.

>>714662512
>If my license agreement says you are not allowed to distribute my binary then you're done, the argument ends right there.
and if there is a law enacted that prevents such licensing agreements from being legal, you won't have to worry about that anymore. have a good day too>>714662614
>I'm stronger, faster and smarter than him
not a difficult thing to be but I still support you

>>714662436
If you pay 90$ for the game then I'll make the game playable offline. Agreed?

>>714662547
>HR and marketing departments
You can just fire 1-2 C-suites and save double that amount while losing nothing. Actually, you probably gain from getting rid of people who don't understand literally anything about the industry they are working in.

>>714652702
>release schematics
Oh wow look other humans can now produce spare parts, would you look at that. How's that possible?!

Might want to stop putting fucking celeb/ecelebs in video games too.

>>714662645
You know what, that's fair. I've had to deal my share of upstairs idiots that when they don't get involved with a project, it goes smoother and they reap the benefits of it. Of course, the industry I'm in, the upstairs people have to deal with other things but at least they can sometimes stay in their own lane.

>>714661037
Not my fucking problem. You don't care where i get money to buy your shit and i don't care where you get money to make it happen, either do it properly or fuck off. I have literally lifetime of backlog to play even if whole industry goes bottoms up.

>>714662645
>>714662547
America needs to collectively come to the understanding that HR is a sorority day care program for women who are literally not good at doing a single thing in the workforce

>>714654752
>Video games aren't "core cultural heritage"
They are though.

>think of the billion dollar corporations there's no way they can spend 100k on some guys to make sure game runs offline
i am more then sure it's not even about the extra dev time, they just want to take it away from you whenever they want
countless ceos have said same thing
how badly they want you charge you by the hours

>>714654752
kys jew fag ill keep my digital toys and ill be happy

>>714662645
>You can just fire 1-2 C-suites and save double that amount while losing nothing
You know what would be even better? Firing 1-2 C-suites AND the HR and marketing departments.

>>714660736
this machine is the perfect addition for my daily smoothie

>>714662834
Thats exactly it. Killing a title creates demand for a sequel. They want to sell a new product based on the same IP as a business model. Instead of trying to actually make the game compelling on its own merits they know they need to leverage brand name to draw in players/purchases.

>>714662783
Agreed for the modern HR system, but I will caveat that a HR system isn't inherently a bad thing. If used correctly, it can make discipline and hiring processes smoother without taking time away from department heads. That's not how it goes though, it's a way for dried up cunts to have some sort of power in their day.

>>714662967
A damn AI chatbot is about to replace all of them and the screeching will be ungodly

>Eleventh hour games
>make last epoch
>has both online and offline functionality
0 fucking excuses why larger studios can't do the same.
any reason they may claim only shows how rotten their infrastructure is, and it deserves to burn.

>>714662953
you can totally see suits pissing their pants about most people playing older games instead of their new slop

>>714662967
>it can make discipline and hiring processes smoother
Traditionally, department heads were supposed to be spending time doing that, and it would be a one off time expense because employees would be retained in the longer term. They also knew how to delegate the department workload. HR is not competent at hiring for a department because they know nothing about the department they're hiring for.

>>714660679
>If they decide to make a law, it does not matter what the initiative says/what the backers of the initiative want.
EU commission will not do anything more than people who are officially in charge of the initiative ask during the discussion. They are likely to do less or torpedo the petition in its entirety, but there is not way in hell they become so enthusiastic to the point they will add their own suggestions. That's not how politicians work.

I don't care what kind of games this stop killing games movement would actually kill. Every one of them should have some sort of offline mode you can play by yourself or with friends. Yes, even MMOs.

>>714663074
most of them can do it and lying about it >>714662834

>>714662953
>They want to sell a new product based on the same IP as a business model
Not even just this, but they can recycle work they already did on the previous title too.

>Exactly: Cohh telling it like it is

reddit tier thread

>>714663221
And anyone who knows a lick of the modern software industry and the problems it faces will tell you how legacy codebases are treated (Read: abused).

>>714661095
kek
it's not hard, its extra work. You can be lucky if gamedevs have enough time to properly test their software.
We might see games in europe costing $10 extra.
Maybe you even get an option to pay extra to buy some private server tools and somehow 90% of the consumers will just rather save $10

>>714663221
ill own my copy of WOW (offline, burned on a blue ray disk) and ill be happy

>>714663286
>it's not hard, its extra work
ITS THEIR FUCKING JOB are you joking?
is there any other industry in the entire world where the average employee constantly whines how hard it is, and the average customer just sucks their lazy cock? I can't think of one. if your job is too hard, get a different one.

>>714663337
Put it on an M-Disc for long term archiving

>>714663286
>it's not hard, its extra work. You can be lucky if gamedevs have enough time to properly test their software.
Outside of yearly slop factories like CoD, I have no idea how they don't have enough time for shit. Most game development times are getting longer and longer for no tangible benefit. I guess that's what happens when projects constantly get restarted over and over again.
Insomniac were able to produce back to back Ratchet and Clank games with new hardware in a time where most things needed to be done from near scratch, modern developers jerk off pre-made solutions from Unreal Engine.

>>714652702
There's a whole market of aftermarket parts for cars you retard. Not to mention a lot of car brands literally just have sister cars under another company's label that parts can just be poaches from. I'm not even a cad guy and I know this.

>>714655578
>If you buy a ticket to disneyland, do you own the whole park? Not all games are the same type of product.
But they're all sold like they're the same type of product. Either you tell up front your ticket expires at X date, like Disneyland does it, or you sell the whole game.

>>714652702
YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLO-, I MEAN, REPAIR A CAR WITH INTERCHANGEABLE PARTS THROUGH A THIRD PARTY AUTO SHOP, WOULD YOU?

>>714652702
Lol, tell me you know nothing about cars without saying you don't understand anything about cars

>>714660675
>Fact of the matter is: live-service games are a different breed and often not well designed to the point where local hosting is an option.
The default would be LAN connectivity. If their game is no longer designed in such a way that LAN is possible, then that means they went above and beyond in ways that made it incompatible. And that shouldn't really be encouraged.

if you ever ask someone whats the best way of doing something,
9 times out of 10 the response you get will be the way most convenient for that person.
and its ok. we are all lazy. we just should be aware that just because something is inconvenient to someone it does not mean its bad or worse way of doing things.
its going to be hard to swallow for people used to saying thing confidently and people around accepting them as facts, but the times are changing. you will have to put a little more effort into your job or someone else will do it for you.

>>714652636 (OP)
STOP KILLING BABIES

>>714657041
>install arch linux, postgresql, the server itself, setup the firewall and a magnitude of other tools?
was that supposed to sound hard?
not everybody has to be able to do it. it should just be feasible.

I'm calling it right now, when none of those ideas come to pass /v/ will do a 180 and go "we told you there was no way this could work".
>inb4 ">/v/ is one person"
Yes.

>>714652702
You're a fucking retard.

Anon who was posting the angry faces before, I've calmed down and become slightly more level headed.
I really hope I was responding to bait, if not then why do games developers think that they are not applicable to the standards of other developer jobs, SaaS or otherwise? I have to deal with this kind of shit because it's my job to appropriately budget these things to get an acceptable outcome for whoever I am designing shit for, why do game developers think they are different?

>>714663831
That was a previous EU initiative which passed 1m.

>>714652702
Put me in the screenshot

>>714663958
It can work, that's just a fact. The question is whether corpo lobbyists will win or not

>>714663958
You're utterly demoralized.

>>714664113
>the only reason our commie bullshit would fail in these capitalist societies is corpo lobbyists
popcorn at the ready

>>714663367
>is there any other industry
what has this to do with the industry? If your job is to put on lids of a thousand glass jars and tomorrow he tells you to stick a label with recycling instructions on it as well, then its your fault if you don't manage a 1000 jars anymore?

software is probably the most complex human made creations. You can hire a team of 20 people to try and figure what a single guy, even if they have the source code and that's already several abstraction layers away from a light bulb going on and off. Meanwhile most mechanics know how a car works, engineers even manage to rebuild airplanes from wreckages split into million pieces.
Commenting your source code alone makes it 10 times more readable, but that's extra work that may only benefit your boss in case he wants to replace you. Similar thing for performance, stability and security it's all extra work that is only ever worth it in hindsight. A dev can put infinite amounts of time in optimizing his code, but he won't get paid for it.

>>714652702
Are you just being stupid for the sake of being a fucking contrarian, or are you just naturally stupid?

>>714661345
I don't know why they keep sperging on about WoW specifically because
A. WoW has had private servers for over a decade now so even if Blizzard got nuked from orbit right this second the game is still playable in some fashion.
B. WoW is a subscription service and thus exempt from this anyways.

>>714664570
*he = your boss

Cohn quickly throwing Jason under the bus so people don't look too deep and realize that he and Jason are the exact same person.
Losers.
Chicken shit retards who never achieved anything larping as game developers and trying to be this game Dev guru.
Nigger you flunked your first year in college. you are in no position to give anyone advice

>>714652702
>Tesla tard

>>714664646
To be fair, I also fucked up my first attempt at university and my advice is "Don't treat university like highschool"

>>714664646
Doesn't that Cohn guy have a kid and a wife? Far less of a loser than ferret fag.
>>714664707
They're both similar spergs. Unpopular people, now aged, espousing their opinions to an audience of people who would never even look at them in real life.
Streaming was a genuine mistake.

>>714662614
Just be careful anon, he's already hit puberty level 2, we don't know yet if he's figured out how to unlock the true potential of puberty level 3 yet.

>>714664923
I love how his excuse for using the literal exact same mic condenser settings as Howard Stern is "I went through puberty again" and his retard audience just accepted it

>>714664850
If having kids is a measure of success, then every nog must be very successful.
>>714664707
The difference being that Cohn never finished anything. He flunked and ran to twitch, larping as some game Dev guru.
Used the same shitty tactics as Jason too. Spamming shitty jewtube shorts where he spews bullshit about the game he's playing

>>714665046
>Used the same shitty tactics as Jason too. Spamming shitty jewtube shorts where he spews bullshit about the game he's playing
That's not even possible. Cohn has been around much longer than youtube shorts. I honestly really dislike the guy because I think he'll play any shitty game for money and largely praise it even if it's bad. There are reasons to dislike him, mostly that he is a genuine shill. I don't know why you're making shit up about him. I guess maybe you're just a dumbass who found him through shorts and you don't realize the guy has been a successful streamer for like 10 years?

>>714665046
>If having kids is a measure of success, then every nog must be very successful.
Your ideas, beliefs, every single thought you ever had, your very DNA dies with you. Do you think life is just hedonism? Time wasting and orgasms make a pointless existence without reproducing.
Some hood retard wif nine keeeeedz is a more successful organism than a spinster or sperg who lives to 100 without ever having children. Life exists to produce life, not to manually rub its own genitals and eat food.

>>714665212
>Life exists to produce life, not to manually rub its own genitals and eat food.
Says who?

>>714665212
>life exists to produce life
never has there been amore reddit opinion than this

>>714652636 (OP)
>make game
>it sells, makes a hefty profit
>make another game
>doesnt sell well
>studio folds
can someone explain this?

>>714665361
>>714665365
filtered

>Selling a software that doesn't work is illegal and you have a right for a refund
>But if the software developer decides 2 years later that what you bought should no longer work because the want to sell a new version, it's completely ok
Customers are protected against defective products. If a developer doesn't plan for an EoL for their live service product, they are essentially selling a defective product.
Planned obsolescence in the EU is heading towards illegality, or at least towards right to repair. Video games should be the same thing, intentionally bricking games should be illegal, or at the very least devs should give you the tools to unbrick them, via private servers or the like.

>>714665390
You can't answer my question because there really isn't one besides an appeal to religion and if we aren't the same faith that won't convince me.

>>714652636 (OP)
>just don't make it!
Okay, so we'll have less games because of your incessant need to be able to have everything FOREVER. Got it.

>>714665425
You didn't ask a dialectical question, you probably high school drop out. If life doesn't propagate then life doesn't exist. This is the fundamental basis of all reality perceivable by our conscious thought.

>>714652636 (OP)
rip the whole gacha market in the far east

>>714665494
You look me dead in the eyes and say that the amount of games we see released year after year are quality enough.

>>714666087
The far eastern gacha market is thriving in the far east. So, they could theoretically just no longer sell in the EU. Other publishers won't have that luxury, since a far larger percentage of their profits is made in the EU.

>>714652702
I wish I knew how to farm (you)'s this easily.

>>714666294
hey (you) >:3

>>714666294
You just need to make short, but entirely incorrect statements about shit that people are currently passionate about so they come out of the woodwork to correct you.
t. retard who fell for the bait

>>714665371
ori dev made a post about exactly that
tldr is most devs don't use house money for multiple reasons
so most of the massive profits go back to the platform and publishers
studio makes some profit but not enough to make another game same size without any outside funding

>>714666294
heres (you)r (you) nonny

>>714666493
tell that to the lambo and maserati , ferrari owners who will havea useless pile of junk once stellantis shuts them down

>>714666294
I'll give you a (You) ;)

>>714666493
Bait used to be at least fun, now it's make a dumb statement then leave it to fester instead of pushing the bait to the extreme.

>>714665494
>so we'll have less games
that's exactly what v has been asking for
less titles but more quality titles

>>714666608
4chan used to be about having fun, and the bait reflected that. We'll never go back to how it was in the 00s.

>>714666570
why even go through a publisher. there is proof that you dont even need to pay for commercials, ads, or even "game journalists" for a game to sell as long as the game is good

>>714666294
pic related worked for me.
but it wasn't bait.
i was just pissed.

>>714652702
learn to speak properly xwitter tourist

>>714666720
>this one game made it big without ads
exceptions don't make the rule
ik a lot of good games that failed

>why even go through a publisher.
because it's really hard to get a 10-20 million dollar loan from banking boomers to make a video game

>>714652636 (OP)
literally fucking who

>>714666904
What were most of the replies? I bet this ruffled some feathers.
t. Teddy-chad who agrees with it.

>>714666904
It's beyond fucking joever for the American right, they'll never again be more than tools for big business.

>>714667016
Mix of 'da joooos', /thread and 'who cares lol'

If devs are so scared, why don't they just explicitly sell access to a service until EXPIRY_DATE? Would consumers actually care?

>If you can't make a game
>then maybe you should make a game
Huh? I understand what he's trying to say, but he worded it so awkwardly.

>>714653525
AVP has dedicated servers you can run? That's cool.

>>714667175
You lost the culture war libtard

>>714652702
fpbp

>>714667016

arch b4k.dev/v/thread/707872292/

>>714667380
>oh noo top goy trump won and he wants to replace the all the whites with h1b Indians
it's really over for liberals

>>714652702
>carless zoom zoom out himself on the internet

>>714667175
>they'll never again be more than tools for big business
>accuse your enemy of what you yourself are doing
I'm so fucking tired of the anarchist's cookbook.

>>714668079
t dog literally wants to give all your data to palantir
not saying dems would've been any different but wake the fuck up

>>714668640
The left wing has been following the marching orders of corporate america since the end of OWS. Sit down.

>>714668640
You just don't get it, man, Peter Thiel is my friend

>>714668710
i don't care about left or right but trump is a crypto shilling jew lover who's more than happy to sell American land and replace whites with jeets

>>714668710
You're right, we'd better send another 600 trillion dollars to Israel right this instant

>>714652702
You just can’t win can you retard

ecelebs who dabble in game dev and then act like experts should all be shot

>>714652702
>make a car
>it requires connection to the company server to run
>the company goes bankrupt
>servers are shut down
>server software is not release
>you now can't start your car

Here's a better comparison, and it shows why this is a SHIT argument.
And there already are cars like that, btw.

>>714659016
It's literally not my problem that devs started using AWS instead of making their own servers. Literally not my problem. If you sell me your game, it's not your right to just unilaterally take it away from because you use AWS.

>people who have never run a business have opinions about how business works

>>714669162
>people who have never developed software have opinions about how software works

>>714669162
they can run wow on private servers
kys

>>714669162
>people who have been expelled from over 109 countries have opinions about how society works

>>714665510
Asking you what authority you got your concept from is in fact relevant ot the discussion and you answer points out exactly what the issue with the entire premise of your argument. It's based on something you view as an in herent truth and as such you view yourself as not needing to prove it. I don't agree though. So if you want to convince you actually do need to provide more reasoning beyond just "It's because that's obviously correct and everyone agrees!".

Also as a side note using big words just to try and sound smart, doesn't make you sound smart.

>>714659016
nobody needs to drop shit. this isn't a draft of a law.
the details will be hashed out by lawmakers, the industry and consumer protection.
publishers will get plenty of concessions.

>>714652702
BMWbros... it's over...

>>714652636 (OP)
>"pirate software"
>is extremely against the movement that makes it easier to pirate software

what did he mean by this?

>2k for 1.200.000!
2k for 1.200.000
>2k for 1.200.000!
2k for 1.200.000
>2k for 1.200.000!
2k for 1.200.000
>2k for 1.200.000!
2k for 1.200.000

>>714670906
Eat my entire ass.

>>714670906(me)
Forgot link

>https://stop-killing-games.keep-track.xyz/

>>714653019
Tardbro...

>>714652636 (OP)
the SKG bandwagon crowd is in for an extremely rude awakening if any actual legislation is passed as a result of their autism, indie devs just won't release anything in the EU anymore, it would be a net loss, AAA publishers most likely will release neutered versions of games that have no online functionality and can exist as a tidy single player experience forever so they won't have to worry about anything

Honestly this whole thing is starting to feel like Sarkeesian 2.0.

You all say it’s about ethics or accountability or consumer advocacy, but at the end of the day, it’s just another excuse to dogpile someone you don’t like. First it was “he hates Stop Killing Games,” then it’s “he cheated at Animal Well,” now it’s “he’s a furry and cried one time”? You’re not fighting for a cause. You’re flailing for reasons to justify being cruel.

Same exact tactics:
Take clips out of context
Spin every emotional reaction into “proof”
Invent some sinister hidden agenda
Make harassment sound like activism

Anita said games affected people and got doxxed for a decade. Jason said review bombing doesn't fix anything and now you want him to disappear from the internet. Only difference is the side of the aisle doing the screaming.

You turned SKG, which started as a genuinely good idea into yet another purity test. If you’re not 100% aligned with the mob, you’re evil. If you disagree publicly, you’re a grifter. If you try to defend yourself, it’s “cope.” This isn’t consumer advocacy. It’s just GamerGate with a new coat of paint.

Jason never shut down a game server. He didn’t scam anyone. He didn’t mistreat his team. He spoke up about bad-faith actors weaponizing SKG and now you’re trying to erase his whole career. What the hell is that?

You’ve taken a movement about preserving games and turned it into a harassment campaign to destroy developers.

Congrats, you’ve become the thing you claimed to fight.

>>714652702
>buy car
>car company goes under
>you can't repair it because they made it illegal for any third party to make new parts for their brand of car, despite many people being fully capable of doing it

this is the world Americans want you to live in

>>714671087
me wanting to own game and me laughing at a gay retarded furfag are 2 different things that just happened to line up.
kill yourself jason

>>714671087
>>714671024
What the hell is this slut saying?

>>714652702
This has to be bait? No one can be this retarded, surely?

>>714652636 (OP)
Wasn't this the guy that was friends with piratesoftware and gave him a platform to sperg his bullshit?

>>714668979
>ecelebs should all be shot
ftfy

>>714671176
This is the shit I was talking about, bandwagoners that latch onto a supposedly just cause just to fucking harass people. We are just asking how SKG can actually be implemented in the real world, no need to get all bigoted and racist about it.

>>714668979
This year has been hell for honest indie devs. First Braid Anniversary Edition flopped and then Thor's games got reviewbombed, threatening his livelihood.

>>714661149
Probably 10 at best, all those mechanics has been there since the atari 7200 or more.

>>714653525
They took away the ability to have private servers because
1) only having official servers means no mods, which means no custom weapons/skins/etc, which means you're more likely to buy their microtransaction garbage
2) you're going to end up moving on and buying the next big game in the series and repeating the cycle all over again rather than continuing to play the same old game on your own server

Donald Trump will kill this movement dead.
The EU shouldn't be messing with American companies if they don't want tariffs to increase.

>>714671087
I just went the Stop Killing Games site and couldn't find the name Jason or the word ferret anywhere.
Don't know what you're on about.

>>714672512
That loser from pirategames

>>714652636 (OP)
Did you even take one look in any of these SKG threads?
It's just a bunch of autists brigading against Pirate Software and harassing him.
"We bullied the guy who streamed Unity tutorials and pixel art for five years because he said review bombing is dumb." Congrats bro, real noble.
You’re not exposing corruption. You’re just mad the dev cried on Twitch and didn’t bow to your fake internet justice committee. If his reputation’s "destroyed," why are you still here screaming at the ashes? Move on.

>>714673108
>the dev
what dev?

>>714673108
How odd, you posted this exact same thing in another thread...>>714673245

if a chef makes a burger and then the burger shop closes down you shouldn't have the right to modify that burger, or have the chef come to your house on his own free time and make the burger functional for you, for free.

>>714672094
>2025+0.6
>still thinking tariffs would hurt anyone but yourself
migapedes are so funny

>>714673712
trump won

>>714652702
This is food analogy-tier.
If my car company explodes and goes under it doesn't mean my car just evaporates into thin air. it will still function just as well until something breaks. Just like how if I had a physical disc of an age old game and I accidentally sat on it one day.

>>714653737
Nah it aged perfectly, because it led to the podcast with Pirate and Rami Ismael and you can see the pure disgust on Ramis face when Pirate started to defend AAA CEOs unironically.

>>714673781
>trump won
So did Mosaddegh.

>>714653525
Because people have no self control and kept supporting games that ditched this and are now begging daddy government to save them.

>>714674021
Link? I wanna watch that

>>714674252
Never forget

>>714674652
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5tjnfEQWFc

>>714652702
>leftoids are unironically this dumb

>>714656248
You've never lived a genuine day of hardship in your entire life

>>714674748
No matter how many years pass I still sensibly chuckle at this picture.

>>714674992
How is anyone actually meant to respond to this without trauma dumping like a faggot?

>>714658113
Or they could maliciously comply with the initiatives plans and make it known when the game will finally end, but then pump the game full of microtransaction items (using steam marketplace or their own proprietary store) where people have the year or so of game life to buy them under the guise that they'll be able to sell them later as obscure collectors items that maybe even have future benefits or other outlandish shit. Then you'll see people unironically getting tricked into paying hundreds of dollars in the hopes they make money off rare items and what not. At least that's what I'd try and make happen if people were gonna piss me off trying to get more experienced devs with backend design

>>714675263
MTX enablers deserve nothing less
fuck valve
fuck ea
fuck gatcha slop

>>714675263
Community Marketplace is disabled if the game is no longer being sold. Just found this out by coincidence last night when I got a card drop for that Square-Enix Avengers game and couldn't sell it.

>>714659338
Only the kind that protects corp against corp, definitely not the one that protects buyers. Lobbyism is one hell of a drug.

>>714675263
There is no second bite of the apple.

>>714655903
Those weren't even invented in video games dumbass. That shit was being done on pen, and paper in the 70s.

>>714652921
>Anyone remember LawBreakers?
yes, I do.
>Nobody cares about that game.
I do.
>Keep it dead.
Fuck you.

None of you know this, but on release, Lawbreakers had Overwhelmingly Positive reviews. That's right, 95% positive reviews. The few people who actually played it loved it.
All the criticism of the game was about how it looked like Overwatch and how Cliffy B was a gigantic faggot. None of the criticism addressed the actual gameplay. The game was great. It was bug free during the wave of early access bullshit.
It just had the worst marketing of all time, and was subsequently bullied to death.

I'd play it today if I could, but for absolutely no good reason I can't host my own server so I literally can not play it. This is the kind of bullshit SKG will prevent.

>>714671394
Or... maybe pirate is wrong for misrepresenting the initiative, over and over again.
Pirate seems like he has high IQ, so why does he get it wrong? Is it intentional? That means it's malicious. And that's not worth defending.

>I bought a ticket to Disneyland, they should make all the rides available for me at home when they close the venue

>>714678086
>i am a massive retarded faggot

>>714678086
I bought a movie from Disney+, but now the service is shutting down. They should give me access to an alternative platform to watch it, let me download it, or send me a dis

>>714678086
>I bought Disneyland
>The Walt Disney company keeps my money but takes Disneyland away from me because they decided to stop making rides
???

>>714678086
It's especially stupid when you realize almost everyone here "bought" their games on steam.

>>714678474
>>714678802
that sounds more of a Disney (and Steam) problem rather than the movies (or games)

>I support SMG
>BUT

>I think this is good for some online games
>BUT

>Look, I don't disagree with what SKG is trying to achieve
>BUT

This is a psychological manipulation tactic. They give a small concession that means nothing. They pretend to support the thing they're arguing against because they want you to see them as reasonable. It's like when a cop goes undercover as a protester.

They are all corporate shills. Roaches. Scabs. Rats. Weasels. Suckers, thieves, and bad guys.

>>714655903
>live service games invented xp
wow

>>714652702
you are like 20 years too late for this argument
right to repair has been fought over for decades already, and businesses have been getting shat on pretty much everywhere
if anything, this comparison implies that it should be legal for people to setup unofficial servers even while the game is still supported as long as they're not using the original software

>>714652636 (OP)
>Cohh telling it like it is.
Kys faggot, stop talking like anyone knows who these faggot ecelebs are

>>714652702
>Fucking idiot that's never driven a car in his whole life says the complete opposite of what actually happens in reality
You should've deleted your post when you had the chance.

>>714677561
Lawbreakers was fun. Too bad Cliffy was being a humongous faggot, maybe it would've done better otherwise.

There are some fans trying to revive it though: https://youtu.be/W9RH-F-16Uc

>>714677892
>Pirate seems like he has high IQ
Not really, he's a midwit. A narcissist good at manipulating people, which is pretty funny because he's done social engineering as earlier jobs. Also why he claims to be some sort of hacker, but its really just tricking people.

>>714655903
>video games only got popular with normies starting with these things
>turning those off means Normies leave
Yeah, good. Ok.

>>714656167
TIVO made sense given TV wasn't ever really a thing you "owned." Sure, you can record it (and still kind-of can), but live broadcasts/etc. wasn't any different from streaming.

Unless TIVO is something you're meaning that isn't that TV recording software of the 1990's.

>>714657301
>isn't an issue with fan patches
>Trust third parties good goy!
No. RCE isn't fixed until the PUBLISHER of the fucking thing fixes it their goddamn self.
>B-B-BUT YOU HAVE TO TRUST THEY WON'T BACKDOOR YOU LIKE THIRD PA--
They're on the hook, unlike third parties. Try again.

>>714677892
>Pirate seems like he has high IQ
thor is a nepobaby with dubious achievements and the most basic takes ever, hard to consider him better than a midwit
he's also in direct conflict of interest with the cause, so he'd be untrustworthy even if you thought him smart

How about we just cut the bullshit, round up all game devs and enslave them. On a giant game developer slave plantation. Where they are forced to make only the finest and entirely legal SKG compliant source code. We could have a data bank on MEGA or something. Where anyone could download all their works and sell it, distribute it, host it yourselves, etc. A truly free market. The future is glorious if this can happen.

>>714677561
This is objectively correct.

LawBreakers was a great FPS and faggots didn't play it because Cliff acted like a retard on social media and the marketing was designed by a brain dead boomer.

>>714659294
Yes. https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/15/23306650/def-con-hacker-john-deere-tractors-run-doom-right-to-repair

If you're not buying anything pre-1999 (cut off arbitary, anything pre-"Internet of Things" and even then anything that requires a phone home/internet connection as the cut-off point) you're fucking yourself over with planned obsolence.

It's not just John Deere, Volvo and numerous other car makers now want you to pay $50/month for FUCKING HEATED SEATS. IN YOUR CAR.

A subscription for shit you paid for IN YOUR CAR. Because you no longer own anything and will be happy.

>>714659016
>All you need to do is drop the live-service shit from the demands.
Live service shit being shut off wouldn't be the issue. Just do what Megaman X-Dive did: Make the game offline playable with the content in-tow.

I haven't seen the SKG petition, but in theory the live service stuff that plays fine without phone homes can totally rejig their stuff. It just requires a bigger file size to put the content in. Like, Persona 5 X can totally work without the online gacha shit if they shut it down, but that requires them to redo the phone-homes/online server calls.

>>714653525
Middleware, unironically. Havok and crew don't like their shit being open-sores so they prevent companies that used to do dedicated servers with their closed-source engines (DICE-SE) from releasing dedicated server files (Battlefield 2) for their newer stuff (Battlefield: Bad Company 2-on).

>>714653046
MuskCHUDtards deserve it.

I can still play breath of fire 3 on my ps3 just saying

>>714652636 (OP)
If Guild Wars 1 can still exist and the devs say "it costs less than our electric bill" you have no excuse

>>714653525

If you are for this, you are effectively saying that you want stagnation.

>>714652702
I actually love how stupid the first response is. Brings back the feels of old /v/

>>714671314
When the Bataclan mudslime terrorist shooting happened, this rodent Cohh didn't even wait until the bodies were cold to start preaching to his chat that "they weren't real muslims, don't look back in anger"
Leftoids deserve capital punishment

>>714652702
This arguement will be real in about 10 years
Drm is coming to cars fast.

>>714659016
I kind of agree. Most people have extremely bizarre and myopic arguments on the subject. Just a few examples-

>games are art and need to be preserved
That's an emotional argument that does nothing logically to address your right to use a license that you own. Why should the copyright holder of the art be dictated on how they license it?

>just make different games
This is slightly more reasonable, but this can be used to justify any arbitrary legislation. "Just follow the new law" isn't actually that great argument for changing the law. You have to have some idea of the effect the law has to make that argument convincing.

>just allow private server hosting
I think there's a good version and a bad version of this argument. Allowing people to run their parallel service with clients you provide logically doesn't break copyright, and it's insane to suggest it does. If it's a service, people should be allowed to run a service. The company having to provide means to do this is actually kind of an insane thing to suggest. It's doable conceptually, but it's an insane thing to mandate.

The problem as I see it is that games are being engineered deliberately in a disingenuous manner where even the EULA states you purchase a license but it contradicts itself on what a "license" means. That is unacceptable. You should have the right to some kind PROPRERLY DEFINED license if you buy it. The license is not properly defined at the time of purchase. The definition contradicts itself, which should be wholly and unambiguously unacceptable.

>>714683501
>Why should the copyright holder of the art be dictated on how they license it?
Precedent. There's already plenty of regulation aimed at preserving culture even if it stomps property rights.

>>714683774
The precedent goes in the opposite direction, though.

>>714679507
All of those are literally you though. That's you anon. You are the public. You are the corporate shill. The problem is you're a 1 man corporation. A bitch with nothing. So you're mad. You're angry. Everyone but you is the enemy ain't right anon? You fucking worm. SKG is going to rapidly become too complex for the 90 IQ asmongold followers in these threads. So tired of you fucking losers and your conspiracies. You aren't worth conspiring against. You actively sabotage your own life without any needed outside influence.

>>714682530
>It's not just John Deere, Volvo and numerous other car makers now want you to pay $50/month for FUCKING HEATED SEATS. IN YOUR CAR.
>Volvo
Wow, what a bummer. One of my dreams is to buy a nice Volvo if I ever get rich. Hope they change their minds.

>>714683774
>>714683901
I'll clarify a bit. You might be making a separate argument now. It's no longer the art preservation angle you're going for, but property rights. That's a good argument, but that has nothing to do with art preservation.

Is there another product "license" that doesn't have a predetermined end date, other than live service video games? I think this is really the core of the issue.
Either you sell your video game as a traditional product, where the buyer gains access to it forever, or you sell a limited time license and you tell the buyer during purchase for how long they have access, like a subscription. It's ridiculous that devs/publishers can sell a game and then yoink it away when they arbitrarily think it's not worth it anymore.

>>714652702
irrefutable

>>714668710
>Sit down.
Back to twitter nigger.

>>714657738
You are either a)retarded or b)retarded nigger.

>>714659006
unironically already in actual EULAs

>>714685245
>unironically already in actual EULAs
What if I decide to not listen to the eula? What happens then?

>>714685245
They're in for a shock when they realise that EULA's don't trump actual law.

>>714671024
>indie devs just won't release anything in the EU anymore

He really said that.....

>>714685408
They'll take away your access to the game that no longer exists

>>714660053
You have either no clue the fuck you are yapping about or you are actually just really bad at your job.

>>714671087
Narcissist narcissing

>number of games cohn has personally made: 0
How nice of him to tell others how they should do their jobs. Whatever happened to "I'm just not going to buy it."

Guess we can delete our "Let's do nothing" wojacks or whatever lol. We're all game dev activists now.

>>714685441
True in the EU, not true in the US
That's why Ross didn't bother doing much in the US, since he (and various volunteers he was in contact with) did the legal research and found out about a case from 1999 which sets the precedent that "In every legal capacity, Americans own nothing": https://youtu.be/DAD5iMe0Xj4?t=1374

Americans are literal cattle with no ownership rights. Land of the free, I guess

>>714661609
That was unironically the reason McDonald's ice cream machines were broken pieces of shit for so long

>>714686215
Man, Americans REALLY can't catch a break, can they?

>>714659016
>t. Pirate Software
Reminder that reverse engineered pirate peer to peer Diablo 3 servers existed before they did fuckall to fix the official servers being constantly down due to traffic

>>714653891
He was there on the Ross t and Totalbiscuit SKG stream

>>714686589
Americans will also cry and seethe and shit themselves and have a meltdown and call you a commie at the mere thought of someone trying to defend their basic right to anything
Reminder that nestle declared that access to water is "not a human right", their government agreed and that's why shitholes like Flint, Michigan exist

>>714671087
>He doesn't weaponize people's retardation to benefit causes that benefit everyone
Unironically ngmi. What an actual retard you are to just cry about this online instead of trying to do something actually good with the fundamental realities of human behavior.

>>714686897
Nestlé are something even worse than American though. They are, and may God forgive me for uttering this word, Swiss.

>>714687160
They're trying to drain the USA'S Great Lakes like the soviets drained the Aral Sea and most of the country cheers them on lmao.

>>714652702
>try to play Mass Effect 1
>won't boot
>look inside the directory
>character models are too worn down from constant use
>lighting is all gummed up
>entire dialogue system is FUBAR
>EA shut down the Mass Effect factory years ago so spare files are hard to come by
It's so over.

>>714671167
Ferarri kind of did this
you can't mod their existing purchased cars because it ruins the original vision, and you get banned from purchasing future Ferraris
>meanwhile, Ferarri is not an American brand

>>714685245
>the product
Bros... I thought it was a license for a service?

>>714688273
NTA but John Deere tractors faggot

>>714686215
>>714686891
I fucking love that Ross' thousand yard stare so fucking much
Fucking annihilates my sides every time

>>714652636 (OP)
Can someone give me a tl;dr of this whole "stop killing games" bullshit? Wasn't interested till now.

>>714652702
car companies started putting drm into their cars because it was too easy to just repair your shit and do whatever you want with it without going through their authorized repair centers.
can you imagine that? people just OWNING what they bought and doing whatever they want with it, makes me puke as a shareholder!

>>714652702
put me in the screencap

>>714689518
bunch of only online games that are impossible to play now, stop killing games is people wanting to be able to play them

>>714687302
Those are the Canadian Great Lakes thoughbeit.

>>714654062
What did Adam do? I stopped watching jp's rollplay stuff precisely because of him.

>>714652702
>your car instantly stops working as soon as the make goes bankrupt
Are you actually retarded?

>>714687302
the only people against draining the lakes seems to be people who actually live near them,
>let's drain the largest system of fresh water lakes in the world so californians can water their lawns and some swiss company can sell bottled water, what's the worst that could happen?

>>714662547
>People don't buy advertising or antiwhiteism within your workplace, they buy fucking products.
fix'd chad

>>714662547
>MBA fuckwits that don't understand to make line go up, you gotta have something people are willing to buy.
lol

>>714652702
Except there are aftermarket parts retard

>>714655658
This is nuts. I can't believe I havent heard of this before now.

>>714652702

>>714663831
why is cohh so disgustingly antiwhite?

>>714652702
Will they come after you if you fix the car yourself with Chinese parts or odd fix-it?

>>714656756
They could back then.

>>714666904
You are a fucking retard.
The reason there are no 'God Guns and big tits' advertisements is because these corporations are subverted by dogmatic antiwhiteism.
They'll push this shit even as it kills profits which we are seeing today.
STOP WITH THE GOD ECONOMY SHIT! FOR FUCK SAKE!
These people will be antiwhite till they die or you sghame and demonize them for it. Till laws are passed to ban antiwhiteism.

>>714652702
If you really wanna use Car analogy
When the company goes bankrupt your car just stops working and there's nothing you can do to make it work. They might even come for you to take it away from you

>>714696814
>subverted by dogmatic antiwhiteism

>>714667189
>'da joooos'

>>714697327
He's not completely wrong though. The overlords essentially want corporate feudalism and that's easier to achieve with mystery meat people.

>>714697564
>He's not completely wrong though.
But it's irrelevant. Unless you want to move off the grid living a 19th century life you can't avoid supporting the system you hate.

>>714667175
depends on how long the ''Right''' wants to be cucks.
Same shits applies to Europe, Canada, and Australia.
If you faggots want to be gay li'l controlled puppet cucks and cry about 'muh economy' 'muh stocks' 'muh woke' 'muh lefties' 'muh commies'.
Yes.
It's over.
It's dead.
If you faggots want to discuss antiwhiteism.
Discuss White Wellbeing.
Talk about how transvestites, mass immigration.invasion, White erasure, etc all damage, harm, destroy and remove White Western culture, ethics, morality. Want to point out how biological White erasure is evil. How trying to force young White boys to castrate themselves via transvestite agiprop is demonic.
How turning all of OUR heros, idols, and champions nonwhite brings us great cultural and spiritual injury.
Then YUH. We could actually fucking win.
Stop being cucks.
Be actual White men.
Stand up of your kin.

>>714686215
>>714686589
Why are you blaming the average American as if it have a choice or say in this?
Is corrupt corpo cunts licking each others arseholes.

>>714687302
Who the fuck is 'cheering them on' exactly?

>>714652636 (OP)
yep! he is right!

>>714652702
Videogames are not subject to wear and tear. They only die if they are killed.

>>714700913
Protip: To kill the videogame, shoot it until it dies.

>>714671176
Whenever you see a funny post like that, run it through a 4chan archive and you will realize that it's a shill pasta.

>>714697327
I never said 'da joooooos' nigger licker.
I said dogmatic antiwhiteism.
Some jews are antiwhite, yuh.
Plenty of Whites push and feed into antiwhiteism though. Same for blacks, asians, hispanics, etc.
The race of who is pushing for antiwhiteism is completely fucking irrelevant.
We could kick all jews out of America tomorrow, antiwhiteism will still persist due to the ideas being ingrained into society.
We need to purge the ideas, the ideology, the meme pathogens of antiwhiteism.
The rest will figure itself out.
Dumb fuck retard.

>>714697816
No you can't really, but that's why you start advocating for White Wellbeing. Pushing for antiwhiteism to be banned, counted as treason, etc. And severely punish those engaging in it.

>>714655563
based Asuka!

>>714701221
>And severely punish those engaging in it.
Because fuck the First Amendment, right?

>>714660679
>spouting nonsense
you mean the words of the initiative you didn't read?

>>714701634
The completely useless one that doesn't really protect you because the powers that be have other means of shutting you down?

>>714702049
>muh corportatism
>muh shadow government
Call Varg, maybe he's got a shack for you to live in.

>>714702220
Agreed, no corporation or government has ever done anything bad.

>>714701634
1. You don't sincerely support the First Amendment. Fuck off kike.
2. You are not legally or constitutionally protected when you defame, demonize, dehumanize, or deracinate the founding stock of America and our White Western values which created the 1st A. to begin with.
Take your faggot arse pilpul scamming else where.
BTW same goes for religion. You are not protected to advocate or practice a religion which by its nature pushes harm onto the founding stock of America or its foundational principles.
Anyone disagreeing should be immediately labeled a traitor, deported, assets seized, or flat out strung up in a tree.
Stay mad.

>>714661345
Imagine if trucks did get 100mpg in the past, but now all the truck manufacturers have decided that they should only get 20mpg and also be remotely shut off and destroyed at any time. That's where we are now. Asking legislation to restore practices that were once commonplace is not an unreasonable demand.

>>714702534
>pilpul
Okay
>>>/pol/

714702863
>no argument
thanks for proving rabbi.
You've yet to actually argue against or disprove what I stated.

>>714652636 (OP)
What is this thread even about.

>>714661345
There's nothing new about this "non-argument". I've seen this shit for months over the course of a year.

>>714654752
>the constant upkeep costs are large and ongoing
lol
The only reason they make "live service" games in the first place is because it's much less work and much cheaper to keep hanging bits of crap onto the same game rather than make a new one from scratch.

>>714703115
In Europe various gamers had unified to start a collective petition, so that the EU will look into online only games that get killed, so some type of offline means to play these games will be created once publishers or devs kill the game/make it impossible to access.
The petition needs...1mil? 1.4mil? unique signatures. And there needs to be at least 7 nations within the EU that have I think 100k or so signatures on their own. Sweden, German, Norway, and some others have crossed their individual required threshold. And there are 1.2k signatures total.
So pretty soon the EU will need to give this topic a cursory glance to see if its worth fully investing in.
Corporations are seething and running damage control.

some games just can't be made as p2p things, are you going to outlaw basic human expression? you can't take the tomorrow children, pokemon go, curiosity, what's in the cube and have them be the same game when you slap a p2p server browser on it, none of that makes sense for the game, and it's not even possible with new big games where there's a huge central server that handles texture streaming, server side physics and world generation because they have things like cloud computing to deal with the immense computing power requirements. just a stupid idea

>>714655563
>In the proposal, SKG wants every game to have an "expiration date" conveyed to the consumer, which will be the end of it's life. Nothing more, nothing less
that's not true, they say after the online services are closed there must be some kind of dedicated server software distributed to the community, which is completely unworkable for modern games, they have no solution for this btw, and they say as much, they only suggest that games in the past managed it. so they're basically advocating to outlaw any game that uses modern technology

>>714686215
wow, i had no idea, i knew that things were bad in the US but no idea that they were this bad

>>714704139
Not my problem.
All of those games you listed are fucking awful by the way and the world would be better off without more like them.

>>714704139
Didn't ask.

>>714704857
>Not my problem.
technology exists whether you like it or not, games are inexorably linked to the technology that exist in the world, it's not about if it's your problem or not, it's just a material impossibility to outlaw an expression of that technology. what are you gonna do, ban all AI? ban cloud computing?

>>714660227
>It is in fact a trivial matter to allow users to host their own servers
you can't host the kind of services used in modern games today, and that gap is only going to get bigger and bigger because of cloud computing and the way hosting works. how do you make something like dreams or littlebigplanet work? you need a centralized amount of immense storage and computing power. SKG literally has no solution to this, all they can suggest is that games in the past worked before, well i'm sorry but we're not living in the past, we're living in the future and technology changes and evolves, you can't legislate the past back any more than you can legislate everyone in to a time machine

>>714652702
AHAHAHAHA, LOOK AT THIS DUMBSHIT!

>>714660729
like he said, it's simply a material impossibility to bridge the gap between consumer hardware and the kind of immense computing power that creators have access to, it's just fundamentally different equipment that you can't democratize access to, and in a lot of cases it's proprietary anyway.

>>714652702
>driving down the road in my prias
>local toyota dealership goes under
>gears lock up
>flung through the windshield at 80mph alongside 30 other people on the highway
>money stolen
>by the way, what's all this about not killing games?

>>714705871
It doesn't have to run on individual hardware, people drum up funding to run private servers on proper hardware all the time. What the user does with server tools is not their concern, all that matters is that they release those tools after EoL so that people can retain access to the product they bought if they so choose, or cease selling them as products and treat them as actual services on a subscription plan.

>>714652636 (OP)
all this shit is gonna crash your community heads are narcissists

>>714706223
modern live service games with thousands of simultaneous players aren't something you can just slap on to a consumer grade server, they're developed on infrastructure that's unique and often proprietary, if it was a feasible business model that generated money or could be sustained through crowdfunding then the company would keep it around. SKG themselves recognise this in the FAQ and their only suggestion is to not make the games in the first instance and instead make games like they were made in the past, without using modern technology like cloud computing. when you buy a live service game the company treats it like a service and that's the way the license agreements are worded

>>714654752
>it's just digital toys
So I guess it doesn't really matter if idiots making them are forced to make slightly different digital toys? Why care if live service games go away if they're all worthless anyway.

>>714706969
>and instead make games like they were made in the past
Yeah, I'm thinking based.

>>714706969
You don't need thousands of simultaneous players on a private server, that is not a requisite, the game could still be run on consumer server hardware to a limited degree, which is more than enough to satisfy people. The difficulty of using the server tools and the cost of the hardware, again, is not their concern, that is the user's. The only thing they have to do, yet again, is release the server tools after EoL. The difficulty for users to actually use those tools is not, I repeat NOT, cause to deny them the product they paid for.

>>714663793
>>714707285
>If their game is no longer designed in such a way that LAN is possible, then that means they went above and beyond in ways that made it incompatible. And that shouldn't really be encouraged.
we're not in the 1990s anymore, cloud computing and AI exist and it's just a fact of life, you can't outlaw modern technology, which computer games are inexorably linked to, in a way they're an expression of the technology itself through artistic means, with thousands of simultaneous players and a persistent interconnected world and whatnot
>>714707368
>the game could still be run on consumer server hardware to a limited degree
you fundamentally lack an understanding of the technological landscape. what you're demanding is a material impossibility, you can't democratize cloud computing and AI, these tools are only available to large interests, and the games they make are an expression of that technology. To ask what you're asking is to deny the fact that the gap between consumer hardware and commercial hardware, and that gap is only getting bigger and bigger, these games are not developed on consumer hardware like in the 90s, they're developed on commercial hardware, using cloud computing, they're developed specifically for large area server farms that use technology like texture streaming, huge numbers of simultaneous players, persistent worlds, server side physics. These things just don't translate to consumer hardware, and the gap between the two will only widen as time goes on. You're not seeming to get the fact that SKG actually acknowledge this, to their detriment, but don't have a realistic solution, only to suggest that we return to game development geared around the consumer hardware ecosystem, which just isn't the way the world works, you can't demand technology halts it's progress and goes backwards, it's ludditism

>>714708112
>we're not in the 1990s anymore
And that's the problem.

>>714708112
>you fundamentally lack an understanding of the technological landscape.
You are fundamentally just making up excuses as to why they can't just release the fucking server tools and let the users figure it out. They sold a product, and they will be made to obey consumer law regarding the sale of products.