>umm Elden Ring bad cause there are betterer action combat games
Why do people respect this guy?

>you're there...as an adventurer...trying to decide how best to overcome a difficult situation

I also love e-celebs, I'm watching Utsuro now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMeuBc1pXp4

>>714684156 (OP)
that's his criticism of elden ring? what's his idea of good action combat?

Who?

that's a pretty solid argument THOUGH, concord in a vacuum would be a great game, it sucks because it was just too shit compared to all the other hero shooters on the market, when talking about the quality of a product it's always relative to what other products are there on the market

Why do people still talk about him when he hasn't uploaded anything in like 7 years?

>>714684156 (OP)
every mistake they made with Elden Ring was corrected with NightReign. The only problem with NightReign is after beating all the nightlords it can get a bit stale

>>714684908
hes releasing a game in 2 more weeks

>>714684285
wrestling with lock on isn't fun. Matt is undeniably correct
>b-but just drop lock on!
Again. Wrestling with lock on isn't fun.
Here's a thought experiment. Imagine if the entire game was designed with no lock on and only group encounters like how DS2 apologists claim the game is "meant" to be played.
Now realize how much shitter this game is cause it turns out that being able to accommodate a shitty camera doesn't make accommodating a shitty camera fun or interesting

>>714684285
To be fair, the majority of soulstards never recovered from the ass raping DS2 gave their fragile egos.

>>714685583
case in point, all that cope just to deliver a subjective "but it's not le fun" point

>>714685583
Are you 40? Using the right stick is "wrestling" to you?

>>714685583
based.
DS2 retards don't seem to understand that being able to mitigate retarded design choices doesn't those design choices any less retarded

>>714685583
Souls games are fundamentally designed with lock on and off being interchangeable based on the situation. Attacks being on the bumpers leaving you free to camera control and attack at the same time makes this incredibly easy.

>>714684690
Honestly, not really, and I say that as an action combat game enjoyer (NGB/Bayo/DMC/MGR/SoP etc)
Souls combat, especially with ER, is just as good and deep as any of them.

>I think having to stop every ten seconds in this game to let your character shit their pants isn't a very good game mechanic
>"WELL ACKSHULLY IF YOU MASH X YOU CAN ACTUALLY SKIP THE SHITTING ANIMATION SO REALLY THIS IS GENIUS DESIGN CAUSE IT REALLY MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR CHARACTER IS SHITTING THEIR PANTS AND IT TESTS THE PLAYER WITH A DIFFERENT SET OF SKILLS"
This is unironically how DS2 fans form their arguments

>>714686337
>deep
KEK

>>714685583
you dont need a lockon unless you are a pad shitter

>>714686337
its not even mh1 levels of deep

>>714685583
I genuinely don't get what the problem with the camera is in these games, there's an argument to be made in elden ring with bosses zapping around like rabid mice but that's the exception, the camera in DS2 is perfectly fine, you have time to readjust if you need to, enemies are slow, everything is quite methodical, punishes you if you backstep away or need to roll spastically, it's fine, the game would probably be a lot less interesting with a set camera too

>>714686337
>Souls combat, especially with ER, is just as good and deep as any of them.
You're fucking retarded, none of the Souls games had deep combat. The only one which came close is Sekiro.

>>714686545
>feces/scat fetish analogy
do anti-DS2 faggots really?

>>714684156 (OP)
He was always retarded. He just sounds smart if you haven’t played the game, and are only half paying attention to the video while doing something else.
This is the case for all analysis video essay shit.

>>714684156 (OP)
the sentence that still makes ds fags MAD

his argument was that the series was good at being an immersive adventure type of experience at one time but it started shedding the elements that made it quirky and interesting to him over time in favor of the combat, which is just serviceable. that's his argument. it's clearly based on his subjective viewpoint of what games have good combat.

i think what souls success demonstrates is that the general audience prefers games where the skill ceiling for player controls is fairly low but there's still a good amount of challenge (and that challenge needs to come from the enemy design necessarily if the player controls/movelist is limited).

>>714684923
>Every mistake they made in Elden Ring was solved by making a different game that actually leans into the action game direction where the characters you play all have inventive and unique character kits that significantly alter how you approach the gameplay sandbox in a way to enable a wider variety of truly viable playstyles that are more conducive to the more aggressive boss design of modern games before you begin to consider the variance of affixes and power-ups that allow the player to become truly OP.

So he was correct from his lost arts of souls video then, leaning the kit of the player in a more action-oriented direction so they have the actual tools to combat the more action-oriented boss design lead to a better game. The next true souls game from FR should cut the bullshit and add an actual class system (just let players switch classes at the hub) to replicate the more focused player kits the Nightreign characters have. You could even make unlocking such classes a part of exploration. (Something like still being able to set your stats, but having an equipment slot that designates your "class" or "vocation" that offers the benefits of those kits on top of whatever your stat and equipment block is.)

>>714687906
The games have always been about the combat. That's what an action rpg is. 99% of what you do in DeS is hit things. You're upgrading your weapons and leveling your character to be better at combat. There's no zelda puzzles, there's no dialogue trees. It's a game about combat.

>>714687906
My main take away is he wants From to do a completely different game that reignites the spark/feeling of tackling Demon/Dark Souls for the first time. Unfortunately memezaki/From can only do one formula, which is seen in Bloodborne, ER, Sekiro and even the latest Armored Core.

>>714688487
you press the attack button in kings field all the time yet its not about combat

>>714688726
That's my problem with Matthewmatosis. He wants every single game ever made to be some huge innovative revolution or it's not worth being made. Putting aside the fact that it's extremely hard to come up with new original ideas that aren't iterative in the first place, there's also nothing wrong with sequels that just seek to refine the ideas of its predecessor. Some of the best games ever made are sequels that took that approach. Otherwise all we'd be left with are a bunch of games that may be innovative but are also massively flawed and never see their full potential realized.

>>714688845
it obviously is

>>714689213
you are obliviously oblivious

>>714689304
And you conceded

>>714689382
I dont think I did

>>714689454
You're not gonna concede?

>>714689501
why would I

>>714689113
You're wrong. He prefers DS1 and knows it was all about refining DeS.

>>714684625
viewtiful joe

>>714689548
Tell me why you wouldn't

>>714689670
I dont see a reason to

>>714689849
Well it's your job to tell me why a game where you press attack button all the time isn't about combat

>>714689637
And DS2 massively refined systems as well, so really it just comes down to him being assblasted by DS2 not being the cakewalk DS1 was.

>>714688726
>>714689113
I think you both are kinda conflating exactly the messaging behind that lost art of souls video. While he was making it pretty clear he prefers the design of Demon/Dark Souls 1, the main takeaway I got from the video was that the direction they've been moving towards would continue to make the overall experience worse if they continued to keep the same overall options offered to the player to approach that enemy design (and seeing the mixed reception among fans for Shadow of the Erdtree, he was 100% correct.)

There's nothing wrong with Fromsoft wanting to make more action oriented games, the reception from critics and fans towards Bloodborne and Sekiro are proof of that. The problem is that when you take that design approach towards enemies and apply that to a game where you are still playing as John Dark Souls with your progressively shittier blocking options game over game and a dodge roll, the game formula starts to lose its luster because the core gameplay sandbox for such a character is just simply not as engaging. If Fromsoft wants to make an action game, let players engage with those games as an actual action game character.

This is why something like Nightreign has been a breath of fresh air, because it does exactly that. It took the gameplay sandbox of Elden Ring and offered you focused and well defined kits to play with to allow the actual player fantasy you want out of it.

Want to play Elden Ring, but with blocking being an actual viable combat strategy outside of one build? There's a character for that
Want to play Elden Ring, but with a character with an actually good dodge option that plays better with modern Fromsoft bosses? We got a character for that.
Want to play Elden Ring but with Sekiro's parry system? Character for that too.

There's far more skill expression to be had in just 1 character in Nightreign than there is to be had with the full list of player options available in Elden Ring proper.

>>714684156 (OP)
who the fuck is this dude

>>714690319
I think you just put words into his mouth to make him '''correct''' because you're a simp.

>>714686337
I feel like we kinda talked past each other, I thought OP's post was about how comparing a game to other games is silly and you should just enjoy a game for what it is without caring about other games on the market, and I said that product quality IS relative to what other products are there on the market, while I think you interpreted it as OP saying that ER combat isn't worse than other games, which I don't know nor care about

>>714691184
No, I'm pretty sure when he literally said that the core gameplay of souls games as action games are simply just not that engaging compared to other proper action game offerings made that message pretty clear.

I think you're the one here putting words in other people's mouths when those lips of yours would be better served around some cocks if you're going to be a complete disingenuous faggot like this.

>>714691468
Well then maybe he should go play those games and fuck off

>>714691608
Sorry, couldn't quite hear that with you down there. Make sure to go side-to-side when working down the length there, cum guzzler.

>>714691468
>core gameplay of souls games as action games are simply
Souls combat is some of the best. I'm sorry you found the DLC too hard.

>>714691335
So instead of understanding the topic you just gassed off your hot opinion, nobody asked.

Fromsoft games are so behind others games in terms of being RPGs or action games. Even Dragon's Dogma did a better job at being a hybrid of those. Fromsoft was always a backwards company since the beginning and seem to be incapable of creating good and innovative games.

>>714692146
didn't ask BITCH

>>714691768
you're guzzinlg cumb

>>714690319
>and seeing the mixed reception among fans for Shadow of the Erdtree
which ones, the ones that complain about it being too hard every time from drops new content or the ones complaining sote contradicted their godwyn/miquella headcanon?

>>714690319
Blocking is already completely viable in elden ring though.

>>714684156 (OP)
It's half assed, combat is neither satisfying for action fans neither to people who play Souls games for the RPG aspect. Fromsoft needs to decide wherever they want to make action games or RPGs

Is this going to be a 500 post argument over a fake quote?

>>714692548
Why do they need to? The game sold extremely well, I'd say the majority of people are satisfied with what it offers.

>>714691772
Not saying it wasn't. The context of which the combat exists within is what is important. Let's play a little bit of a thought experiment here so you can figure this out.

There's mods for Sonic Generations right now that allow you to play as Super Mario 64's Mario within Sonic Generations right now. As in, fully replicated state machine and physics properly implement. Super Mario 64 is an amazing game, and while there is fun to be had with the idea of trying to navigate sonic levels truly as Super Mario, playing as Mario is simply not as fun as playing as that same Mario in Super Mario 64 because the abilities of Mario are obviously not conducive to the level design and context of a Sonic Generations level. If you were to take John Dark Souls, and import him fully in functionality to a game like Ninja Gaiden, or Devil May Cry, even if there was some fun to be had in trying to play the game in such a way, would it be anywhere close to as fun as playing Dante or Ryu? Would it even be any fun if we deescalated the comparison and say we imported John Souls into something like Dragon's Dogma instead?

That's the problem that has been reaching it's natural breaking point in modern Souls games. Fromsoft has been ever since Bloodborne approaching enemy design in a similar manner, while keeping the design and options offered to the players near identical to the same options offered as far back as DeS. Yeah sure, you could dump Ludwing into a souls game and you could probably beat him as a Souls character, but is that fight anywhere close to as fun as it is within the context of BB, where you have a MUCH snappier player kit and weapon options to play with. Likewise, are those BB weapons when imported into a souls game as fun to engage with as they are within the context of BB?

Again, there is no inherent fault with either the core boss design of modern Fromsoft or it's approach to combat within a vacuum, it's a lack of evolution in the formula that's the problem

>>714684625
Matt hasn't said anything about Elden Ring
He just has an extremely dedicated autistic hater who makes threads like this regularly

>>714693027
I get the impression that you seem to hold Fromsoft and every game they put out to some degree of high regard. As a fan of the franchise, why would you not want to see an improvement and evolution to their approach in game design? This is not a discussion where the idea proposed is that the game turns completely into something else. Nightreign has also been selling extremely well with a solid audience that is still playing it daily over a month later, but as a spin-off Nightreign was not afraid to offer more options to the player in how they choose to approach combat with the characters they choose to play as.

Why would you not want to see something like the power guarding system from the bird guy as an option for your character in an ER2?
Why would you not want to see something like the systems of the Recluse to offer a more engaging play-style for spell casters, a form of play that has been notoriously stagnate for over a decade.
Why would you not want to have the option to have a snappy quickstep to replace your dodge roll for your dex character, just like the Duchess?
Why would you not want to see the ability to Sekiro Parry as an option for your character like the Executor, or the ability to punch your way through attacks as your massive weapon wielding heavy armor donning STR build like you can with the Raider.

This is a scenario where you can have your cake and eat it too. You don't need to offer all of these options to the player all at once, you can have a new system in place in a future souls game that gives you the options to unlock these abilities, or to ignore all of them just like how you can ignore spirit ashes. Such powers could be offered through gear that you have the choice to use or ignore to tailor the game in the way you want to play. If people didn't like such options, they wouldn't be buying and enjoying Nightreign. But they are, and what would be the problem with taking the good ideas Nightreign has?

>>714684597
Utsuro's stream is over, I'm watching Luna now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd5F9QEjAAI

>>714688487
>The games have always been about the combat.
You are mentally retarded or underaged

We have to confront a hard truth that few people seem to want to face about the Souls games, but here it is: the combat is nothing remarkable.

In terms of actual complexity there's not much going on. There's not much depth, and that wouldn't be a problem, except the series has increasingly leaned on its action elements more and more as time has gone by.

If you're a staunch defender of the series this is where you might be tempted to rattle off all the attack animations your favorite weapons has... It's true that there are differences in range and damage, but the effect on the enemy is usually identical. They lose some health, possibly suffer some hitstun which either lasts long enough to get another attack in or it doesn't, in which case you go back on the defensive until your next opening. Positioning is important, but that's about the extent of it.

In terms of defensive options the series is a lot better, with the ability to block, parry, or dodge most regular attacks...Unfortunately, against bosses, parrying is often completely impossible and blocking is often ill-advised, which leaves you with rolling as your one and only defensive action. So prepare to roll again and again, and again and again and again. When you're not rolling you'll generally be getting 1-2 hits in with whatever weapon you choose, hits that usually provoke no response from the boss whatsoever making every weapon basically the same thing apart from whatever damage types and numbers it has.

You go in, you learn the moveset, maybe you die a few times along the way, until you know the boss's moves like the back of your hand. Then you dodge past them, punish at the right times, and win the battle. It's perfectly serviceable gameplay but doing it 20x in one game is just excessive.

I'm not saying you should be able to juggle Hollows or anything, but if the game is going to be so relentlessly focused on action then I have fewer reasons not to just play a better action game.

>>714694267
why would you waste so many words on some obviously brain dead kid ?

>>714694808
This has been the go-to boss design philosophy for Fromsoft ever since Artorias of the Abyss and fights have only gotten more "shounen-anime" over time. Thats not to say that bosses like this cant be good. At their worst, theyre camera-eating monstrosities with infinite stamina that blatantly read your inputs, cancel their recovery animations and have nonsensical tracking but at their best theyre fair, challenging, and have great presentation. False King Allant is a great boss. So are Artorias, Ludwig, and Sister Friede, among many others, but theyre also undeniably samey.

In a 2009 interview about Demon's Souls, Miyazaki said "When designing the bosses, I made sure that they would be varied and exciting. I prepared different gameplay strategies for each one so that players didn't get tired of the same fight every time. We wanted to surprise players and encourage them to figure out different tactics, to think on their feet."

If Dancer of the Boreal Valley had been in Demon's Souls, I probably would've loved it. It has intriguing visual design and the unconventional attack animations present a good challenge. The reason I don't enjoy it is because it's in a game filled with bosses just like it. FromSoft have long since figured out that one way they can punish players who carelessly roll around all the time is to hold the anticipation phase of attack animations for about half a second longer than you'd expect. They've completely abused this trick to the point where most bosses seem to have at least a few of those attacks and many basic enemies do as well. By the time you reach the Dancer, you've already had to adapt to a huge number of unconventional timings designed solely to catch you out. The thought of learning even more weird attack animations so I can roll and stab my way to victory yet again just isn't all that appealing anymore. When it's a foregone conclusion that every fight will be a dodge-and-punish affair, they lose their impact.

>>714694854
Curiosity to see if I could get him to rub his two remaining neurons together, honestly. But consider the post an open discussion. I genuinely do believe that the kits offered in Nightreign are fun and much more engaging to play with, so it would be interesting to see discussion as for ways Fromsoft could take the ideas and implement them into a traditional game in a way that does not utterly replace the core foundation their souls games have been built upon.

>>714694808
>>714694882
>>714694267
>when westerners start writing essays about some silly 死にゲー

>>714694573
Not an argument. You lost.

It really do be just "I want muh interconnected world and enemies to be braindead slow backstab circle strafe"

I don't really love the combat in say Super Metroid either but still consider it an awesome game. Though I guess fromsoft has really focused a lot on the combat recently and neglected the other parts I loved from Dark Souls 1.

>you're there..as an adventurer...trying to decide how best to overcome a difficult situation
Which is exactly what DS2 is and yet this faggot got hard filtered and made some shit up

>>714684156 (OP)
Because he's right. For years Fromdrones would nonstop parrot arguments like
>Soulsgames aren't power fantasies. It's about planning, patience, learning from your environment, and taking each encounter slowly
Wow, seems like an interesting idea. When I started ER and got my ass beat by a Godrick Knight, I hatched a plan. I would bait one to a nearby ledge so I could safely attack down while the terrain impeded his attacks. Wow, this game is so cool. I'm using my patience and intuition to defeat a more powerful foe! And then his attacks fucking clipped through the hill. Ironically, it's way more effective to just tight circles around him on Torrent and he'll just stand there spinning and not attacking. And there's loads of this type of bullshit. Runebear fucking pirouettes 180 degrees mid-attack, you can't get behind him. FallingStar Beast's hitboxes are so janky, you can't even exploit his weakpoint.

The actually good parts of the game are when it focuses on the level design like Volcano Manor or Haligtree. The enemies and combat design is fine when it's blended into the environment. "Be careful around those blind corners!" type of stuff. When the game expects you to manfight enemies, the combat sucks. It's a fucking psychology trick. The giant healthbars, high damage attacks, and precise timings make it FEEL but there's no real planning or tactics involved at all. You're just memorizing movesets and dealing chip damage until the boss dies. You can't pressure enemies because every powerful attack has hyperarmor and just ignores stance breaking.

>you're there..as an adventurer...trying to decide how best to overcome a difficult situation

>>714696203
because it has worse visuals, boring enemies, boring combat, chests that don't make sense, locations that don't make sense, retarded context and bad level design compared to the first game. It was a good game but worse than the previous two which is why it was shitted on .

Anons make it so complicated but its really not.
>souls games used to emphasize the role of grounded exploration in a bespoke world where just getting around the levels was a huge part of the challenge and experience
>later games then placed way more emphasis on memorizing enemy movesets and flashy boss battles, which takes away from the balance the earlier games struck between combat and exploration

Anons who argue
>"bro the games were always about combat!"
are bad faith actors. If you've actually followed the series and played the games (I grew up with day 1 Demon's souls btw) you know that DeS and DS1 capture a unique experience that the later games did not match, which Matt communicates near perfectly in his video which is why it continues to be proven right as the series has become more commercially successful

>you're there..as an adventurer...trying to decide how best to overcome a difficult situation
So tell me why DS2 isn't exactly what he wanted..?

>>714696417

>>714696417
Here's your thrilling enemies and non boring combat bro

>>714696375
>DSP understanding how to play better than game design guru Matt
oh no no no

>>714696705
Wow, look how boring DS2 is in comparison...

Domo3000 fucking WON!

>triggered the dump
I win fattie.

>>714696417
You couldn't make DS1 not look boring if you tried.

>>714684156 (OP)
are you schizophrenic? when has he ever talked about elden ring

>>714684625
he hasn't said anything about ER in particular. fromtrannies are just mad he accurately predicted ER five years before it released. reminder fromtrannies don't actually play video games. they play fromslop and mostly nothing else and have no frame of reference for anything. matt is the absolute antithesis of the fromtranny.