>Yoshida explained that the jump from the PS4 to PS5 AAA games has caused budgets to almost "double", despite the lack of an obvious technical jump for most games.
>The PlayStation brand is known for its massive, cinematic AAA single-player experiences, although the brand has spent this last generation investing massively into live-service multiplayer games that have either been scrapped, are missing-in-action, or have been killed shortly after launch in the case of the $500 million project Concord.
>Yoshida explained that the PS4 era where Sony released titles such as God of War, The Last of Us Part 2, The Order 1866 and Horizon was better for AAA development as it was just before the cost of making huge games skyrocketed. While it "felt like going big was safer" just ten years ago, publishers were willing to invest heavily in this type of game, but now it's too much of a gamble
>"I saw some analysis or estimate of one same franchise released during PS4 era and PS5 era generation double the budget," Yoshida told the podcast. "And that has reached the point that we cannot recoup this investment."

https://www.videogamer.com/news/ex-playstation-boss-reveals-aaa-publishers-arent-signing-as-many-games-as-the-jump-from-ps4-to-ps5-doubled-the-price-of-development-for-very-little-improvement/

It's no surprise, Shawn Layden was saying it was going this way 6-7 years ago and Jim Ryan was openly telling investors that cracking China by way of PC ports was pretty much essential due to how expensive everything was getting

>>714854524 (OP)
Explains why ps5 has no games and ps6 will have only indie titles, lol

Make less expensive games? BG3 sold at $10 less than AAA games and made very good profits.

>>714854524 (OP)
Just hire jeets they will work in slave conditions for a fraction of the price.

>>714855112
Literally this.We will usher a new era of gaming

Xbox forsaw this years ago and just stopped making Xboxes. Sony should have followed but instead they're just making all their biggest games PS5 exclusive and no one owns a fucking ps5 lmao.

>>714855112
They've been doing that for years.

>>714854524 (OP)
you're telling me spending 500 million on this is unsustainable??

>>714854798
Layden was the one who pushed for this shit

>>714855231
Xbox still shits out exclusives no one cares about.

>>714855306
They expected you to grind for a thousand hours to unlock this.

>>714855081
BG3 was made thanks to eu paying for propaganda

>>714855112
That's what put them in the position they're currently in

Reminder that some of the best games were made by small teams.

>>714854524 (OP)
What I said I clearly remember when they complained that going from PS2 to PS3 was incredibly expensive and all that same bullshit.
I don't understand what the fuck is their problem - computers are faster than ever before, 3d animation software is cheaper than ever - for example...
>1998 - SGI's Alias|Wavefront releases the first version of Maya (1.0) only available on SGI's proprietary operating system, Irix. At this time it would have cost one $15,000.00 for Maya complete, and $30,000.00 for Maya Unlimited.
Ffw to this day and you can probably get a license for $100 or whatever the fuck.
My cheap ass desktop is practically a supercomputer but most people don't think that way because they just browse internet and play games.

What's wrong with just late PS3/early PS4 tier visuals at higher resolutions/framerates again? As if the vast majority of consumers are gonna complain if they zoom in on models but can't see pores or fine hairs. Hell I think consumers would be very happy that games aren't blurry messes with ghosting issues again. All these fake frames and AI upscaling solutions are just a bandaid on top of a problem that all this shit isn't feasible. It's too expensive and the hardware just isn't ready for it.

You'd think the huge success of games like Fortnite, Minecraft, Mario Kart, Expedition 33 and Baldur's Gate in the past 15 years or so have proven most consumers really don't give a shit about ray tracing or 4k. Just give them good fucking games at reasonable prices. Are publishers really this dumb and stubborn that they'd rather simply slow down the process that doesn't work rather than trying something new?

>>714855595
Does anyone know what Naoko Sato (the girl standing up in the jeans) is doing now? She was the monster designer for the original Silent Hill before jumping ship to Project Siren at Toyama's invitation where she co-wrote the Siren and Gravity Rush games, but it doesn't look like she went to Bokeh after Japan Studio got closed

>>714855706
PlayStation thinks we need to see every hair on a character's face.

>>714854524 (OP)
>God of War, The Last of Us Part 2, The Order 1866 and Horizon
Doesn't list a single good game lmfao. Worse yet is The Order was a total bait and switch, it wasnt even a game it was a movie with quicktime events.

>>714854524 (OP)
Can these retards ask themselves the actual difference between games from 20 years ago and games now? Like is it really that difficult to spot the pattern? At this point they may as well be delusional. This goes way beyond being out of touch.

>>714855332
They don't have exclusives anymore peanuthead

>>714856060
console exclusive

>>714854524 (OP)
KWAB

>>714855112
jeets will waste millions and years of dev time with nothing to show for it. Anything that goes beyond the most basic implementation with UE5 is too much for the vast majority of them.

RETVRN to relatively low budgets. Indies are kicking your ass. The higher the cost, the more by committee and safer a game has to be, as well, which is why they all suck.

>>714856050
Over-inflated budgets, bloated teams and the lack of risk taking that comes with those huge projects. OP is literally talking about it.

>>714855231
There's nothing stopping them making AA games again, giving devs 2-3 years and not more than 50 competent guys to do the job and just some small marketing and not wasting $300 million+ for month long coverage of Times Square.
They're doing this shit to themselves and then barley break even since there are only so many guys who will buy the game in the end.

>>714856439
Not to mention they keep hiring and promoting people that don’t know how to make good games. Like the writers suck shit, the programmers can’t optimize so you have these fucking mega games that take up half the hard drive. And the artists seem to think graphical fidelity is a replacement for any sort of unique style so shit ends up looking uncanny and generic. I mean so many characters have the fucked up doughy “realistic” skin texture. I mean what the actual fuck? It’s like a mill of mediocrity and no one does anything out of a mix of sheer terror over the idea that if they fuck with it everything will collapse or that they need it to keep going or else they will never get work in the industry again.

>>714855595
Those are the producers, dipshit. They did what Capcom did and what every AA and AAA team today does, outsource asset production to contractors. Same thing that E33 guys did. All those articles about how the game was made by 30 people are bullshit. The central team cooks up the blueprint for the game and then hires a bunch of contractors to make the assets, and when they are done after a lot of back and forth, the central team takes those assets and builds the game. But none of you faggots care, you'd rather shitpost about headlines and soundbites.

>>714855906
They think that despite the obvious fact that only a very small amount of consumers care about photorealism? Is this really all publishers know, that "muh grafx" sell? It's a billion dollar industry yet none of the people at the top and their many advisors, partners, shareholders and consultants can tell them more besides "needs more photorealism"?

Man, no wonder this industry is crumbling so hard right now. I wish I could get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a month to manage a company that puts out products I have zero interest in and have zero knowledge of the market about.

>>714855595
>small
at that time that was a normal sized AA team

Im so glad I made the jump to PC last gen. Just last week I saw even Snoy cucking out to other console with porting Helldivers 2 to Xbox, how ridiculous is that?

>>714856680
>the writers suck shit, the programmers can’t optimize so you have these fucking mega games that take up half the hard drive
Anyone with actual talent and enough experience leaves once they realize they have to work 80 hour weeks at the salary of two peanuts, and that they could work in another industry with much healthier work-life balances at respectable salaries instead. Anyone else either sucks shit and can't find other work, or gets laid off and replaced with another fresh batch of graduates from what I understand. Microsoft (and especially 343) is infamous for doing things the "just get a whole bunch of interns and lay them off once the game's done" way which is why Halo is such a fucking mess of a franchise these days.

It also doesn't help that game devs seem to be too afraid to step up and be in charge these days. From the stories I hear a lot of studios just dick around with ideas for 4 to 5 years before shitting out a game in 1 or 2 years. There's no vision because nobody wants to get fired if that vision turns out to suck shit and/or flop.

>>714856998
>Those are the producers

you know nothing about silent hill

>>714857130
>Is this really all publishers know, that "muh grafx" sell?

Yes. They push graphics to sell consoles.

>>714854524 (OP)
>PlayStation and Xbox will die in our lifetime
Video games are saved

>>714854524 (OP)
Just go back to seventh gen-era visuals, but polish them up more. Games like Killzone 2 and Devil May Cry 4 have held up remarkably well.

>>714854524 (OP)
How much money would they save by removing the diversity hires? Keeping only developers with experience, artists, music and sound people, VAS and hiring writers from another country who don't know what a trans person is

>>714855231
If that were true, Microsoft Gaming would have followed the Nintendo path but now they're cutting their losses on everything only focusing on franchises that will make money and to hell with smaller projects. Game Pass is also dead to them and will be on its way out. Their next gen Windows box along with its OEMs will crash and burn to the Steam Deck 2 and SteamOS. Both Microsoft and Sony are fucked into terms of gaming. Nintendo and Valve own gaming now.

>>714855706
>higher resolutions
no, stop wasting resources on this shit. just keep making the framerate go up and otherwise keep PS3 graphics.

>>714854798
>Live service is bad because Chinese people don't like gatcha systems

>>714857716
>Keeping only developers with experience
Depending on the studio they might only have a handful of people left.

>>714857752
Just up to 1080 or something man, chill out. Most PS3 games were 720p or lower in case you don't remember.

>>714857752
Probably pointless since the overwhelming majority of TVs out in the wild at 60hz

>>714855112
You can watch actual recorded lessons on YouTube, they teach coding in a tiny room with a hundred pajsheet sitting on the floor writing on fucking paper because they can't afford a computer every five students

>>714855706
>What's wrong with just late PS3/early PS4 tier visuals at higher resolutions/framerates again?
There was such a heavy period of the industry chasing graphix at all costs we didn't stop where we clearly should have.

>>714855906
>>714857130
I mean what are you supposed to do when tech has plateaued as hard it did in the last 5 years? Games are a visual medium and, for the last 50 years, were marketed on graphics. Only in the last 15 years we reached almost-photo realism and in the last 5 years all visual improvements are so minor that you need a zoomed in side by side comparison to really notice a difference and then people already don't give a fuck. We already know that a good 90% of the average AAA game audience doesn't care about tiny details, don't care about performance all that much as long as it isn't choppy and they don't care about under the hood systems and mechanics. What they care about is does the game look good, are the animations fluid, are the characters pretty, how many weapons are there and how big is the world and how many quests are there. But you can't fit all of that into a 45 second trailer. That's why marketing is having a fucking crisis because games from 10 years ago don't really look much worse than recent releases.

>>714857453
Do you know what the term KEY MEMBERS means? Those guys are the lead producers, the project heads. They outsourced asset production like every tech company under the sun.

>>714854524 (OP)
Jim Ryan ruined PlayStation and took all the soul out, no wonder they have trouble with sales now..

>>714855306
It looks like she autistically cut off the filling of a jacket because she didn't want to wear a jacket but she was cold

>>714857962
If games stayed at MGSV tier, I'd be happy with that.

>>714858019
It was already ruined before he became CEO

>you can't ask for improvement because i am poor and cannot afford to keep up

>>714858001
i'm sorry. you're right. they did outsource menial work. but my point still stands that everything you love about the game was made by a small team.

>>714857828
Those studios should close down they are only kept alive by ground breaking player counts
St that point just get a Japanese studio to make your game for you and IP farm

>>714855906
And neither look good nor realistic in their implementation in the first place. Peach fuzz is supposed to be subtle, not gorilla nikocado like.

>>714858001
>>I mean what are you supposed to do when tech has plateaued as hard it did in the last 5 years
Invest more into novel ideas? Minecraft would've never gone off the ground at any major publisher in 2010, but it turned into such a massive IP that I see Steve and Creeper merch everywhere I fucking go now. Minecraft is AAA yet it looks worse than something I could draw, and nobody ever gave a fuck that it isn't pretty and doesn't have fluid animations. Even my graphic whore friends have played it.

Of course the question now becomes, how do publishers know what ideas could work and what couldn't? The answer is they don't because the people at the top and everyone around them only know about games and the market from spreadsheets made by dipshits. They failed to actually take the time to understand the market or their consumers and now they're crumbling because they keep resorting to a one trick pony that is too expensive to keep alive.

>>714858001
>>714858191
Pathetic samefagging when cornered lmao. I bet you weren't even born in 1998.

>>714855306
post more gore

>>714858327

If games still looked and ran like gen 6 games like on the PS2 then we'd have way more games and they'd be better than what we currently have. Video games are fucking dead.

>>714858297
Hang yourself.

>>714858189
So you'll be willing to pay $160 for AAA games to make up for the fact that development costs doubled.

>>714858259
besides Minecraft, games that make the most money are Fifa, COD, Mario kart, gacha,... Nothing creative about these
E33 is supposed to be a huge success but it sold like 3M copies, and yes I know that's a lot for an AA game but if you x10 the buget of E33, it won't sell 10 times more

>>714858420
>we'd have way more games
There are already too many fucking games.

>>714858528
EA Sports FC and COD are guaranteed to sell so they can get all the budget they want, but a lot of big successes of the past 10 to 15 years didn't have AAA budgets. Mario Kart and gacha shit don't get 400 million dollar budgets. Pokémon is probably made on a budget of pieces of string and it still managed to make a huge comeback.

>>714858259
>now they're crumbling because they keep resorting to a one trick pony that is too expensive to keep alive.

Xbox has been doing exactly what you are asking for since 2017 when they started their shopping spree. If you want to be really charitable their whole id@xbox initiative was going in that same direction 10 years before that.

Xbox acquired like 20 studios and announced 20 games and what have those devs done with the their blank cheque in 7 years? Jack and shit. Sure game dev is a creative process but if 20 studios can't produce at least 1 or 2 massive hits it's time to admit that the monkeys on typewriters approach has failed. And since they have no other alternative it's back to producing $500mil games that take 10 years to make and are aimed at literally everyone who can hold a controller.

>>714858469
SAMEFAG

>>714854524 (OP)
Xbox and Playstation is dead. PC will take over for third parties. There's zero reason to buy Xbox and Playstation today

>>714854524 (OP)
Good, AAA games have dried up all the diversity in the gaming market and made every game into cookie cutter shit instead of the experimental stuff we had in the 2000s

>>714858874
Microsoft is unique in the sense that they don't actually fucking manage their studios. On paper, buying up all those studios that have a lot of recognizable IPs is smart. That they don't actually make use of them is very fucking stupid. Xbox has had a very laissez-faire approach to handling their studios since they bought up Rare, and it didn't work back then and it especially doesn't work now.

Yes, those studios need to be smacked around now and then. Yes, they need to actually do something with those IPs they're neglecting. I never denied as much.

>>714854524 (OP)
all they do is teach you how to be a massive homosexual and limpwristed pushover cuck ready to be subjugated by the brown hordes. nothing of value will be lost.

Yoshida I think is also referring to how games like Stellar Blade, the last game is greenlighted for Sony, only cost less thant 40m dollars.

>>714859039
This, those two consoles killed PC gaming for many years by consolizing everything, now PC is getting its revenge and PCing up console shit. Nintendo always made their consoles feel like they can work with PC games and their games are made for their unique hardware. I'm going Switch 2 and Steam Deck/Deck 2 next gen. Nintendo and Valve forever.

>>714859297
coomers stay winning

I think the problem is that as consoles increase in performance vidya publishers feel like they HAVE to utilize the machine to the fullest capabilities, otherwise what's the point of a newer and better console when most games can run on something weaker

I think it's why nintendo stop competing in power a long time ago, possibly because they had some actual foresight about this.

>>714859443
Iwata called this shit out in 2000 or 2001 when he said the direction the industry was heading was unsustainable. Nobody listened to him at the time, but looking at the state of things now, they should've. Nintendo is doing great these days by sticking to their philosophy.

>>714859443
>I think it's why nintendo stop competing in power a long time ago, possibly because they had some actual foresight about this.

They've always made under powered consoles because they're profitable. Nintendo has never sold a console at loss unlike their competitors.

>>714859630
>>They've always made under powered consoles
I wouldn't say their consoles were underpowered up until the Wii. The SNES and Gamecube had good hardware for the time. Their handhelds definitely were though.

>>714859630
the n64 was actually the most powerful console in its generation and the gamecube was stronger than the ps2. I think it was actually the gamecube selling way less than the ps2 despite being a better machine that made them reconsider their approach on graphical fidelity

>>714859543
Nintendo's been calling this shit out since Yamachi. Gabe Newell called this shit out, Sony and Microsoft along with AAA third parties were just stupid.

>>714859127
Because i think that
>Yes, those studios need to be smacked around now and then. Yes, they need to actually do something with those IPs they're neglecting. I never denied as much.
is antithetical to idea of giving devs unrestricted creative freedom so they can come up with the next big thing like a Minecraft. Everwild is the best example. Development started in 2014 but they couldn't figure out what the game was supposed to be so they scrapped it and rebooted in 2019 and, i assume, in february the game was making progress but nowhere near market ready so Phil gave them another 6 months which didn't do much and Xbox cancelled the game. They flushed 11 years down the drain for nothing.

>>714859630
I've seen comparisons of multi-platform games between GC, PS2, and Xbox, and the GC version looked worse and ran the worst.

Is that why Sony is now porting to Xbox aswell?

>>714860324
I thought the gamecube was stronger than the ps2, is this just a bad port or am I wrong?

>>714860264
It's a tough dilemma to answer because you can see this happening all over the western industry. My favorite game of all time, Deus Ex, only exists and came out as good as it did because John Romero gave Warren Spector a black check and told him to take all the time he wanted. It took a lot of planning and production but it did eventually come out. I don't think that would happen anymore in the current industry.

I dunno. Japanese studios don't seem to have this issue.

>>714859039
Based. PC gives you everything you need, Snoy and MS cucking out their games and Tendiegames being able to run on emulators

>>714854524 (OP)
AAA development died long ago. The current thing masquerading as "AAA" is just massively incompetent money hemorrhaging, inefficient management and consultant babysitting services, all in the name of letting upper management skim as much as they can off of retarded hedgefunds, government grants, etc..
It was obviously never sustainable, but neither were consoles after we stopped needing specialized chips for everything.
If these major publishers had actual foresight, they would split up their studios into smaller 60 person groups at most, except that this would hinder their specualitive hiring/firing practices where they can simulate forward thinking for shareholders.

>>714855306
Concord won. Chuds lost.

>>714860386
In some areas it's better, but overall PS2 is better.

>>714860550
>>Concord won
the shortest shelf life award

>>714859738
>the n64 was actually the most powerful console in its generation

I can't tell.

>>714860386
Gamecube is quite a bit more powerful.
Sometimes multiplatform games would look worse due to sheer lack of disc space and it was always the platform with the least priority when it came to game porting.
Keep in mind back then porting a game wasn't as simple as it is today. You'd basically have to rebuild everything but the assets.

>>714860414
>Japanese studios don't seem to have this issue.
I wish

>>714860414
There's plenty of Japanese stuff that languishes in development hell for years. I mean look at Nioh, it went through a couple of borderline genre changes over the course of a decade plus and was only kept alive because Kou Shibusawa ultimately saw it as his baby. It would've been canned after the initial SRPG/Mosou hybrid version for PS3 ran into troubles if anyone else were behind it.

>>714860717
MML came out pretty early in the console's life so that's hardly a good example to use. Devs had a lot of growing pains with trying to figure out the hardware and apparently early dev kits were slightly shitty.

>>714858367
they all look like C tier one punch man villains

>>714858259
>Invest more into novel ideas?

Honestly, there's plenty of that going around. There are games being released by indies that are flopping, which, 10-15 years ago, would've been garnering awards, and getting GotY nods. Even if not that, they would've had solid success as a cheap Steam or Xbox Live Arcade game. Frankly, there are too many fucking games coming out. The market's saturated, and there are only so many hours in the day.

>>714855306
Designer of that thing work for blizzard now

Is this better?

>>714860414
>John Romero gave Warren Spector a black check and told him to take all the time he wanted.

Which back then was 10 or 15 people working pre-production for a year to figure out the blueprint and adding another 20(+outsourcing asset production) for 2 years to actually make the game. Today you're an order of magnitude short on all aspects.

Japanese studios are just as disorganized but on a smaller scale.

>>714861062
Is this better?

>>714860717
You nostalgia filter fags are the worst.

>>714859738
>the gamecube was stronger than the ps2.

It got absolutely cucked in terms of storage space. The Gamecube probably would have doubled or tripled its sales numbers if it just used DVDs and it also worked as a player.

>>714855081
BG3 was worked on by 2000 developers and it was more expensive than most AAA games.

>>714861117
Bottom looks better. Look at those jaggies and low res textures on top

>>714861176
Those are actual TVs....

>>714861109
>Microsoft gut the art department for Blizzard in a cost cutting measure 18 months ago
>only realize afterwards that this is an issue because Overwatch's monetization now exclusively comes from selling costumes
>hire artists who'd recently worked on Concord, a game that failed thanks to one of the factors being that the art direction and character designs were awful

Genius

>>714861215
I'll take that if it means I can see further.

Have they considered not investing in shitty online games?

>>714860414
>Japanese studios don't seem to have this issue.

were you not born during the lost decade of the PS3 and PS4 where japanese developers were spending millions on a ton of games that had no vision and went nowhere before they found their groove again?

>>714855706
>>You'd think the huge success of games like Mario Kart
MKW took 8 YEARS to make. Not a great example at all lmao

>>714861172
is this due to cartridge vs CD?

>>714861303
The thing is, if one of those games pulls a Fortnite, you can essentially build an entire empire around it. Tim Sweeney tried to take on Steam with the Epic Game Store on the back of Fortnite money. Obviously it failed, but Fortnite money made him think he could topple Steam.

>>714861203
>it was more expensive than most AAA games

It's not 2010 any more.

>>714860386
gamecube is absolutely significantly better
but being a smaller platform of relatively unique hardware made any special accommodations for it a poor ROI

Xbox was at least significantly more capable and otherwise basically a PC by hardware config, so taking the time to conform development to it in any way shape or form could benefit elsewhere.
Meanwhile, PS2 was significantly weaker, but had such an obscene install base that you optimized for it heavily because that was going to be your target audience.

>>714861364
Japanese developers struggling with coming to terms with HD development also wasn't helped with overtly Japanese games being extremely unfashionable at the time - helped along no doubt by fuckwits in the gaming media like Arthur Gies.

>>714861223
I could believe them being a PVM, holy scanline batman

>>714861364
>>714861046
>>714860898
Alright, alright, poor choice of words. Japanese studios seem to suffer *less* from this issue.

>>714861390
I was thinking of MK8 when I said it but whatever, I still doubt World took that much to make when its credits are only around 500 people big. Most teams these days have at least double that.

I'm sure Neil Druckmann, fresh off of his success in helping with the second season of The Last Of Us, will right the ship with Intergalactic.

>>714861109
nothing surprising about that
the game industry is very incestuous

>>714861303
They see online games making millions from selling skins and loot boxes and want to get in.

>>714861403
All these live service games are essentially $500 million dollar shitcoin gambles. There's a 99% chance they'll fail, but there's that 1% chance you'll 900x your investment.

>>714861364
Examples?

>>714861486
>I was thinking of MK8 when I said it but whatever, I still doubt World took that much to make when its credits are only around 500 people big
Nintendo literally has the greatest developers in the world, dude. Why you think other companies can't compete? Just the way they operate is completely unique, they can pull the best talent from any team at any time because they work close to each other Other companies can't do that shit

Game development is unsustainable for everyone, even nintendo the golden child of talented developers working on weaker hardware is forced to work on mario kart world for 8 years, hire 1000 people to work on ToTK for 5 years and more. At this point nobody has figured out the magic formula of making cheaper smaller games that sell a lot so far so until the problem is solved every developer is gonna throw more money and people at things.

>>714861489

>>714855703
>Maya
>you can probably get a license for $100 or whatever the fuck.
It costs about $2000/year now. Which is peanuts for a big company. But you could use Blender for free instead.

>>714855794
I remember Ito saying on xitter that she died
I might be wrong though

>>714861662
NTA, but essentially Capcom during that era. Keiji Inafune. Resident Evil VI (yes, I know it's being reappraised now, but it was looked at as turning the franchise into Gears of War back then). DmC. The lack of Mega Man (which led to shit like Mighty Number 9).

>>714861670
>Rockstar India

Jeeeeeeeeeesus.

>>714854524 (OP)
just make cheaper games dumbasses

indie devs regularly make better games than AAA slop and it's just one dude in their bedroom

these people have lost the fucking plot man

>>714861725
>imagine being Moner in that scene

>>714855595
SH1 is an indie game by today's standards. Only Nintendo could get away with releasing something with these kind of graphics.

>>714861364
>>714861805
It's true but that was pretty specifically a "these japanese games need to CHANGE to keep up with the west!" and so for basically an entire generation and change every jap franchise had all the worst problems of american games. You could almost hear the collective sigh of relief when stuff like DMC5 started coming out and it wasn't like that anymore.

>>714861303
>get one good success
>haha money printer goes brrrrrrrrrrrrrr for years
>>714861805
oh man, that era was fucking grim for Capcom fans if you weren't into MonHun

>>714861867
>indie devs regularly make better games than AAA slop and it's just one dude in their bedroom
Can you name some? Just so i have a frame of reference for your post.

I genuinely hope that the future cuts are deep and broad enough to essentially turnover the industry and bring in people with technical know-how. That games like Battlefield 2042 and Concord happened to begin with speaks to a terminal level of rot.

>>714854524 (OP)
You are right the solution is pretty obvious - AA games for $80 like nintendo does it.

Nothing is stopping them from making more sub $80 million games like KCD 2, E33, lies of p, space marine 2, and stellar blade. However, those games don’t impress investors and typically sell only 4 to 10 million copies
while investors want 20 to 30 million units sold and something that looks like a massive Hollywood production.

I really think consumers would be more than happy with PS4-level graphics forever, but it's the investors and their unrealistic expectations driving things.

>>714861853
Literally an asset farm one step above AI. That's how we've been treating india for a decade now. Western studios figure out what assets they need, hire some third world sweat shop to produce them for a fraction of a western company, they send those assets back and the western devs use them to make the game.

>>714862012
Also people were crying about new doom only being 16 hours long for a full priced AAA
When it used to be common practice
Today people would shit on the length of dishonored
They expect ubisoft numbers from every game

>>714861785
Oh what? Shit, that's terrible if true. Talented lady.

>>714861805
>>714862032
I'd add a couple to the list as well. Konami - even though Metal Gear and Pro Evolution Soccer were still seen as being in good shape, they were showing pretty big cracks in other areas with stuff like Mercury Steam Castlevania and Bomberman Act Zero. Team Ninja are another one too who were floundering pretty hard from when Itagaki left to when Nioh came out and they found their groove again after years of mediocrity. I mean some people now are reappraising NG3RE, but remember vanilla NG3 and Yaiba? Fucking hell.

>>714862052
Almost anything would count, the bar is about as low as possible. Like can you name any decent AAA games? I swear there hasn't been anything decent in over a decade, it's all just cutscenefests

>>714862219
Going public is selling your soul to the devil.

>>714862219
>I really think consumers would be more than happy with PS4-level graphics forever
PS6 will likely cost $700-800. Even Sony fanboys would be pissed if they're getting worse graphics

>>714862398
>Almost anything would count, the bar is about as low as possible.
Then just name some so i would know what you're talking about.

>>714862219
>>714862407
I recall reading that Bethesda/Zenimax were getting questioned at one point by some shareholders about why The Evil Within had any right to exist. Says it all, really.

>>714862484
I'd be fine with it but the price would have to match. $30 or less for budget games. Sony would never allow that because it would "devalue" their prestige marketing.

>>714862398
Why yes there is one that provides a challenge and is 97.5% gameplay.

>>714862537
randomly pick an indie game on steam and you'll find something better than the cutscene "games" that AAA studios put out

>>714862378
nvm actually I looked it up and it was Ryouko Horie who died, she worked on SH3

>>714862589
Okay so you don't actually have a game that you can point to.

>>714862634
literally all of them, I have provided you a whole category with thousands of games, pick any you want

How do we go back to smaller teams? In the 90s like ten guys made DOOM, about thirty made stuff like Thief, Half-Life. They were cutting edge and revolutionary games. Now we need thousands of devs for just another generic open world adventure.

>>714861662
Square Enix, though there are people who'll argue they've never left their slump. Just a few dead cat bounces here and there.

>>714862484
Well almost every one know how unless ps 5 has
You can post almost every ps 5 game to ps 4 pro with some tweaks
So ps 6 will be even more useless and bloated

>>714862570
Basically this
Investors see something like dishonored or hi fi rush and think it's cheap kids slop
If you are not putting up cod or GoW numbers you are pretty much useless to them

>“I saw some analysis or estimate of one same franchise released during PS4 era and PS5 era generation double the budget,” Yoshida told the podcast. “And that has reached the point that we cannot recoup this investment.”
So Nintendo was smart doing ps4 era hardware

>>714862698
>pick any you want
No, you made the argument. You pick one.

>>714854524 (OP)
>PS3 is released
>people saying it is more like a PS2.5

>PS4 to PS5 doubled price of development for very little improvement

You stupid fucks allowed this to continue. PS4? Old news! PS4 PRO, NIGGER! EMPTY THAT WALLET AND PAVE THE WAY FOR SHITTIER EVOLUTION! DON'T FORGET TO COMPLAIN AFTER YOU WASTE YOUR MONEY ON GARBAGE DECISIONS!

>>714862330
>Also people were crying about new doom only being 16 hours long for a full priced AAA

The Dark Ages launched at $80, while simultaneously being a day one Game Pass game. I absolutely would 100% complain about the price, with that proposition. Microsoft is essentially telling you you're a retard for buying it.

Drag x Drive is a budget game and is priced accordingly. Problem is its not a very exciting game is it?

>>714862860
>“And that has reached the point that we cannot recoup this investment.”
And a western mega publisher would say that they can do that, they just have to reach a bigger audience, no matter what it takes.

>make smaller games
>make games with less realistic graphics
>"NoooooooooO!"
What's their problem?

>>714862860
the reason they cant "recoup the investment" is because they keep making pozzed ugly garbage that they know no one wants

>>714862920
Fair but I'd imagine people still having a problem if it was 70 or any game that's less than 25 hours selling for 70 bucks

>>714862957
It's smarter than Concord

>>714862959
This really
>>714862219

We are 5 years into this generation and I can't think of any exclusive that makes me want to buy a console.

The smart thing to do would be instead of making some garbage like Concorde, split the budget five ways, and make five modestly sized games that target specific audiences.
>ten hour long survival horror
>ten hour long spy game
>ten hour long cartoon platformer
>ten hour long sexy gooner game
>ten hour long extreme sports game

Why is this so hard to these people? I don't understand.

>>714863026
Yea Concord is bad sure but I bring up Drag x Drive mainly because its a Nintendo game without Nintendo characters and nobody is hyping it up. Sony and Microsoft can't rely on IP to sell things like Pokemon or Mario can. Unfortunately Japan Studio died because no one bought their games.

>>714863147
Because it's this. >>714861572 All these live services are investors gambling. If they can get a Fortnite, an Apex, a Destiny, or whatever. They can build empires.

>>714862219
>20 to 30 million units sold and something that looks like a massive Hollywood production.
no correlation unless you're selling an open world game or prestige first party. the hook is going to catch fire or it isn't, better than ps4 fidelity means jack for whether or not the average normie buys in.

>>714863147
Man read the room
They don't want to make decent profits
A 50m game selling 7 million copies is nothing for them
They are chasing infinite growth
Games are supposed to get bigger and bigger which means pouring 400 milion on liver service and face scan slop

>>714863328
To you and i
Investors are old faggots who don't understand video games they are big business guys who think bigger means better

>>714863195
Sony was a Japanese company, they could have stayed in Japan, hired the best developers, they've been making games since PS1 like early 90s. They could have built great IPs, they just didn't think it would matter in the long run and thought they could beat Nintendo with third party support. They were wrong, lost and now Nintendo is market leader. Power of IPs, baby.

>but I bring up Drag x Drive mainly because its a Nintendo game without Nintendo characters and nobody is hyping it up
You don't even get what it is. Nintendo got experimental teams that can work on whatever they want. The teams that made shit like LABO. There's a lot of value in creating weird experimental shit, if you fail you lose nothing. If you win and it's a small succcess you're even. If you win big then you'll get a huge return and can expand the franchise

>>714863379
That's clearly retarded, and failing them as a business model though?
Maybe I'm not big brained enough to be an investor.

>>714863147
3 of those games are going to sell like crap, and they're inevitably going to bloat past their AA budget because of delays and how expensive it is to make any kind of modern asset.

>>714863520
Nintendo is very hit and miss when they aren't leaning on nostalgia. For every profitable new IP like Splatoon or Ring Fit, you get an Arms or Drag x Drive. They'd be a lot less successful without Mario.

Tainter Grail is a low budget game I enjoyed more than anything Sony created/funded since Bloodborne.

>>714863618
They'll sell to a niche market who are a lot more loyal to their genre than whoever Sony thinks they're chasing with their bloated AAA crap.
If someone tried to make a new MGS1, now, I'm sure it would do decently.
Just like how Expedition 33 did decently by simply trying to make a new old Final Fantasy.

>>714863529
Sony essentially made a retarded move five years ago when the PS5 was launching. We only really understand this in hindsight, but the reason the PS5 has no fucking games, is because they decided all their money would be in live services, the majority of which got canceled, or flopped. Sony funded something like, 12 live services, and what's come out of that has been like, Helldivers II. That's it. The rest are either unremarkable, or cancelled. The Last of Us 2 had a multiplayer live service. Gone. Spider-Man 2 had a live service component. Scrapped. Never released. Along with any DLC. Concord? Released, and unreleased. Now there's a Horizon MMO coming, and fucking Fairgame$.

>>714858001
>Games are a visual medium and, for the last 50 years, were marketed on graphics
So the Wii, WiiU and handheld consoles don't exist in your parallel universe. Interesting.

Even the PSX and PS2 had worse graphics than the competition.

>>714862219
you're correct and anyone that tells you they genuinely want more individual ball hairs being rendered in the ray-traced light of a fluorescent bathroom lightbulb is a fucking retard or a liar

>>714857752
we can't make framerate go up or the consumer will start asking why all the first party titles barely hit 24 fps

>>714860717
>>714861172
>games that were ported from the Playstation
Look at Conker's BFD though. That's borderline Dreamcast.

>>714863529
Their main strategy after the cinematic games hype kicked off in 2010 was making as many cinematic blockbusters as they can, and it worked for about 5 years. Then budgets exploded and it got increasingly difficult to pump out those games on a consistent schedule. At the same time live service games became the new trend so they shifted their focus. A live service game takes just as long to make as cinematic blockbuster but, since it's living game, is just a platform for future content and since players will keep playing they will keep paying and the game can run forever, with an initial investment of $300-400mil and an ongoing development cost about $50mil a year. Fast forward another 10 years to 2025 and the successful games in that sector are so big that new games entering that space have a stupidly hard time establishing themselves. There are, in total, maybe 100mil players interested in those games and they are already hopping between 5 titles, if they are hopping at all and not just focusing on one game. So getting their attention is nearly impossible.

>>714863775
Don't forget that Bluepoint, the tech wizards (say what you will about their art department) who specialize in ports and remakes) who've wanted to make an original game for years, got forced on to a God of War service game that was canned after tying them up for three years. A God of War service game?!? Who the fuck actually thought that would be a good idea?

Also it doesn't help that all the old guard at Sony Worldwide Studios were either forced out or demoted follow Ryan's ascent to the top. Half the reason Shu Yoshida is spilling all this shit now is that he was clearly pissed off about how he was treated in his final years with the company.

>>714863830
>So the Wii, WiiU and handheld consoles
Are in a league of their own. Not sure it's even the same sport. Nintendo has always been doing their own thing. While everybody has been failing at chasing the Rockstar-tier blockbuster formula Tendies are lining up around the block to buy the same bing bing wahoo they have been playing for 5 console generations now. Nintendo knows that and they are fine with giving their audience exactly that.

>>714863672
This is some actual retard shit. Arms is incredibly successful and it created new characters like Min Min, franchises they own 100%.

>They'd be a lot less successful without Mario
Why you think they're bringing back Donkey Kong? Nintendo is one of the only companies that actually does this right. You need new franchises, you can't just sit on your old ones. Just look at how that worked out for Sony, they kept relying on the Uncharted/TLOU formula and now they got zero exclusives, it all went to PC because they bet on only having a few franchises and huge games.
What retards accuse Nintendo of doing, "only relying on old franchises" is WHAT THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY IS DOING. Literally last week Microsoft closed down a ton of studios, Sony closed down tons of studios as well over the years just to focus on the big ones

>>714864113
Retarded cope. Those consoles sold millions despite not focusing on graphics. Those consoles have great games remembered fondly by millions of players due to their gameplay, story, characters, music, etc.

Just because Microsoft had nothing to offer but pretty graphics and Sony went full retard with their movie games doesn't meant that graphics were the only or even the biggest selling point for videogames historically. Otherwise SEGA would've wiped out Nintendo in both the NES and SNES era, the GameBoy would've failed, the NDS, Wii, 3DS and Switch would've been failures too.

>>714864265
>comparing mario to uncharted
lol
lmao

>1. foster videogame development
>2. make it sustainable.

everything goes to shit if this isn't what's driving a company in that order. They have a pursuit that's valuable in itself and they strive to make it a successful, sustainable thing. decisions driven by primarily by money are going to sink well below anything that would actually have any worthwhile interest.

>>714855328
>“Video game makers are struggling to adapt to the internet era”
How fucking ancient is this man, Jesus

>>714864469
Uncharted was a huge franchise back in the day, I don't know why you're pretending it's not. PS3-PS4 was when Sony actually made games that sold consoles, not so much anymore.
Even Sony fanboys have started this narrative recently "uuuh Playstation exclusives never sold Playstations :)" like bro, you could get 1-4 games for free with Playstation sometimes, it was actually a pretty good deal which is why it sold systems

>>714864580
>uuuh Playstation exclusives never sold Playstations
They're PS4 babies. That console sold for Fortnite, FIFA and Netflix only.

>>714863930
I played that a few weeks ago. It looks like an N64 game. Blurry textures and all.

>>714864487
phil followed exactly this with the projects he was greenlighting and it blew up in his face.

I just don't fucking get why they keep saying that AAA is fucking dying and instead of switching to AA they're just doing everything they can to try to fuck their customers over, you'd guess that a company would think about their own future instead of aiming to get a quick buck and then die even if things go well for them

>>714862219
>"what if we just made smaller experimental games at a lower budget"
>stakeholders and investors say "will it make hundreds of millions"
>"probably not at first but"
>"pass"
>console or game comes out that shakes up the industry and makes gazillions
>"WHY AREN'T WE DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT"

Every time. Don't go public, kids.

>>714864651
Look up best-selling games on PS3/PS4. Note how many Sony exclusives sold systems. They might have come free with bundles but that strategy was actually working for Sony before they went mega woke and retarded later on

>mfw AAA games are dying

>>714864487
>1. foster videogame development
>2. make it sustainable.

Which is literally what Xbox have been doing for 15 years. Ever since the indie days on the 360 they have been funding smaller and weird games. They even went so far and bought 20 studios between 2017 and 2020, gave them a blank check and let them work. 7 years later and those studios produced jack shit. A couple games that flopped hard, a couple games that sold decently and the rest is either stuck in development hell or was cancelled recently.

Phil just couldn't find that sweetspot that e very authority figure is looking for, where they give their underlings enough freedom to produce greatness but also keep them focused and actually making progress.

>>714862219
Fuck man I was happy with PS2-level graphics I don't give a shit about PS4

>>714864774
In my opinion HL2 looks decent. I think it aged better than GTAV.

>>714858367
these three are actually pretty good. I like the horror skin concept on the giga nigga, and it's the only design I've seen where the intestines make sense

>>714862724
I will never forgive Square-Enix for how hard they fucked over Deus Ex alone. Everything else on top is salt in the wound.

>>714863930
>more time to develop
>looks worse

That's not a valid excuse.

>>714864265
Nintendo gets criticism simply because they've been around longer, and their "old franchises" are from the 80's, rather than being from the 90's or the 00's.
It's actually incredibly dumb and arbitrary. People who were shit talking Nintendo for being stuck in the past back in 2000, are now eagerly awaiting Resident Evil 9, or Elder Scrolls 6, or whatever.

>>714863930
getting ported means the draw distance is lowered?

>>714864838
If they want to do some PS3 stuff (Half-Life 2 was part of the Orange Box) that's perfectly fine, I just think focussing on PS4-level graphics is honestly overkill

All of playstations budget problems are because of retarded american west coast salaries and having to pay a gigantic amount for the marvelslop licensing

>>714863520
It also helps that even for their Triple A equivalents, Nintendo will make sure to keep development costs low enough to keep the finished product profitable. There's no need to do top-o-the-line graphics if you're expecting a massive money hole that no amount of sales are capable of filling it in.

>>714862906
>people saying it is more like a PS2.5
show me said people

>>714855332
She should put the cotton in the bag. Don't stretch it out like that.

>>714854524 (OP)
You know what's sustainable? Ziotranny movies and GAAS slop like Concord lmao

>>714854524 (OP)
>the jump from PS4 to PS5 doubled costs!!!
... how?
>um uh um uhhhh GRAFFIX!!!
literally everyone wants PS4 or even PS3 graphical fidelity with 60+ (pref. 120+) framerates.
>oh shit he's right but we can't say it's because of the always online infrastructure we set up in the vain hope of making another fortnite... Wait fuck I said that out loud! NOOOOOOOOO

>>714865039
Cartoony/stylish graphics look fine forever. Fucking BOTW/TOTK will age better than the PS6 games coming out. There's a lot of irony all the companies chased realism/graphics to sell their games and then the biggest games is nintendo, roblox, fortnite, minecraft with only a cople of exceptions going to GTA/RDR2

Xbox goes under and Playstation is soon to follow. Tick tock, Snoypiggies.

>>714864854
It pretty objectively was a more powerful system. Why are we having arguments about this?
Putting out a more powerful system didn't really pay off for Nintendo, because developers just flocked to the system that was cheap and easy to develop for instead. Nintendo didn't really make that mistake again.

>>714865142
>literally everyone wants PS4 or even PS3 graphical fidelity

You underestimate just how many normalfags see a game with a realistic ballsack and start screaming about how it's the best game ever

>>714864265
Nintendo was definitely smart about it because they managed to expand their IPs to become multimedia juggernauts. They got movies now, Super Nintendo World has long ass lines, Pokémon cards made a comeback in a huge way. Never would I think children these days would give a shit about Pokémon cards. Meanwhile Sony has jackshit. Nobody really cares about Nu God Of War, Horizon and Astro Bot in the same way they do about Mario, Zelda, Pokémon and Splatoon.

Microsoft tried bringing back old IPs and expanding some of them, but far too late. They brought back KI and did a good job and then did nothing else with it, they brought back Battletoads but loaned it to a studio that doesn't give a shit about the IP or making good games or writing good jokes. They tried to do that Halo show but it sucked and who the fuck even cares about Halo anymore after years of 343 fucking up the brand beyond salvation? Then they just kind of gave up on the idea I guess.

>>714857814
>Chinese people don't like gatcha systems
Aren't they the main demographic for gatcha?

>>714855231
I never was a fan of xbox falling for the trap that playstation laid out to follow. All those massive new studios to make AAA games with unproven or even new IPs was always rather dumb but the trump economics put the final nail in the coffin of those.
Thankfully they have plenty of midsized game released and still making. That is the way to go. Fund a bunch of Grounded's and invest when they are well received.

>>714864980
They were completely different systems, and porting things was hard.
Also you can say "muh draw distances", but you completely ignore every Playstation game being awkward and wobbly to look at, and having unfiltered MS Paint textures.

>>714865158
It says a lot that the console with the ugliest Nintendo games are the N64 console, and I still find those games better-looking than the hyper-ultra realistic artstyles of the PS5 games today.

>>714865293
The PS4 had realistic ballsacks

>>714854524 (OP)
What new AAA games did Sony even release this generation? God of War is a sequel, Horizon Forbidden West is a sequel, Niggerman 2 is a sequel, TLoU is a straight up port. These games already have game engines, gameplay systems, assets ready, they are not making them from scratch so where does the money go because it's certainly not quality or innovation. My take it that it gets burned or mocap, VA, etc.. but most importantly pointless shit like diversity seminars, consulting companies like SBI, community managers.

Also E33 had very high production values, arguably better than many modern AAA titles and didn't cost 500M to make.

>>714865379
But you see, PS5 has even more realistic ballsacks and PS6 will have even more realistic ballsacks, that's quite literally the only thing most normalfags care about, they don't care about the gameplay, they lie when they say they care about the stories (ask any normalfag what happens in their "favorite game"), they don't care about the characters, they only care about muh graphics

>>714865074
Corny as hell

>>714865301
>Pokémon cards made a comeback in a huge way. Never would I think children these days would give a shit about Pokémon cards.
It's like I'm back in the 90s again.

>>714865142
>... how?
Graphics really is the answer. Basically since the HD era started and Japan "fell" due to the west chasing graphics over gameplay and then selling millions upon millions by catching the normalfags the industry started pushing towards graphics.
The problem is that they're now permanently locked into this mentality of there not being an "enough" point since it's an expensive investment and must continue to get more and more expensive. They fear if they drop chasing graphics all the normalfags will just stop buying anything.
Basically they made their bed and now need to sleep in it. They were warned not to do this before the HD era by the way. Didn't listen to the wise businessman CEO that could see what would happen if they stopped valuing gameplay.
So even if it's fucked and they know it's fucked they literally cannot stop chasing this trend even if it kills them.

>>714855081
>BG3 sold at $10 less than AAA games and made very good profits
BG3 was in development yet it still needed a 2019 Kickstarter boost despite being from a AA studio that already had to rely on Kickstarter for their previous games. It then entered into Early Access stage in 2020 and was selling for 3 years before actual release which also had to cut a lot of corners. It also needed Tencent investment. The final result saw complete termination of the people working at WotC at the time and Larian moving away from the IP, never making a DLC for it let alone a sequel.

I'm not defending Snoy retards and their Californiabloat budgets with their low quality outsourcing and overpaid diversity employed nepohires. It's just that you picked the worst possible dev counterexample of a westacuck game ending up being not-shit. BG3, for better or for worse, won't be replicated any time soon.

No you see with have to burn $500 million over 10 years on a fortniteoverwatchlike before we even know if anyone wants to play this thing.
And even more we have to piss so much time and money away to chase photorealism only for our target audience to say "lol looks like a ps2 game" from their iphone in twitch chat watching at 360p because a corner of a 1 frame still has a slightly unpolished texture.

>>714858874
>if I redditspace then I can just ignore all the good games that came out and were successful

>>714865605
Name some so i know what you think is successful.

>>714865191
So powerful it can't render as far as weaker systems.

>>714865550
Fortnite was originally around 50 developers. It was a huge open market just laying there and most companies were retarded not to see it, everyone was still copying old shit

>>714865550
>lol looks like a ps2 game" from their iphone in twitch chat watching at 360p
LMAO
Based zoomers

catch my attention with a nice art style or you WILL get comments like these from me kek
I do NOT care about Aloy's nose hairs or Abby's HRT wrinkles bro

>>714863147
That's what Shamus Young once suggested in his article "How I Plan To Rule This Dumb Industry" and I never understood how none of the big western publishers tried it. It'd be like horizontal integration but for a modern company, instead of dipping your toes in multiple kinds of business you just dip your toes in different variants of your typical product to appeal to a larger market.

Nintendo does it this way for fuck's sake, you got your 2D arcade platformers, your Metroidvanias, 3D platformers, racers, JRPGs, SRPGs, hell they have a popular shooter IP now. They brought back IPs like Famicom Detective Club, F-Zero and Advance Wars on the Switch for fuck's sakes. Never in my fucking life would I have predicted that ten years ago.

>>714865301
The cards thing happened because of covid, every kind of trading card got a massive boost in popularity and sales.

>>714865334
PlayStation also had better textures because of the disc size. Also CD quality audio and FMVs.

>>714865414
>E33 had very high production values
Only the ost. The rest is very badly designed but normalfags can not tell a good designed and well playing game if it bit them in the ass.

>>714865683
I accept your goalpost moving and take the win.
Good Day.

>>714862708
It's the artwork that takes a long time now. Many, many man hours.

>>714864684
>you'd guess that a company would think about their own future instead of aiming to get a quick buck and then die even if things go well for them
Age old problem with publicly traded companies. Line must always go up, so quarterly short term gains are more important than long term viability. Especially if you can bail out with a golden parachute before the house of cards inevitably collapses.

>>714860386
PS2 was more flexible but you'd had to micromanage every fucking pixel.
GC had more effects "built in" to the hardware, which it could do very fast, but wasn't very good at doing custom effects.
Between the two, GC was faster and had a lot more memory. But if a game used a custom pixel pipeline that you couldn't "drop in" to the gamecube, then the game either had to be downgraded a lot or have the engine completely rewritten. Since money and deadlines were tight, some games just ended up looking like shit.

>>714865843
Might be but the IP would still need to be valuable for that to happen in the first place, and a lot of people love Pokémon. Maybe not always the games, but the franchise is beloved for good reason.

>>714865372
trying something new and failing will always be better than doing the same thing as everyone else and merely passing. nintendo experimented a lot during the n64 era and it didn't always pay off, but that's what you get

>>714858072
Most games nowdays are worse than MGSV or Arkham City.

>>714865525
BG3 was never on kickstarter.

A good strategy would not releasing ps6 untill there's some big innovation in video game tech and instead making a more efficient and hopefully cheaper ps5 slim or something like that
And reverting back ps4 graphics even for their biggest titles
But they won't do that so cares

>>714858072
Games could feel half a good as mgs 5 did I'll be more than happy

>>714864376
>Those consoles sold millions despite not focusing on graphics.
That's why i said Nintendo are doing their own thing. They are targeting a different audience. Nintendo isn't making trailers with close up shots of photo realistic foliage, cloth and hair strand simulation on characters and how amazing their facial animations are in cut scenes. Nintendo is showing off the design of their characters in a different way, they are aiming for that sense wonder that we had(and some still have) looking over a colorful landscape, that almost dreamworks/pixar style of character design with big expressive faces and color coded designs. Who cares if they games are slightly choppy, you can play them on the go! Who cares if the models and textures aren't that good, you're not zooming in anyway! Look at how fast that Mario can overtake Peach!

There is nothing wrong with that. It's a different approach.

>>714865986
On the first level of Warth of Cortex you can see that the GameCube version is missing snow fall and the water is clear, it looks like it's not even there.

>Console wars bullshit idiocy will die because the consoles are all dying
WhatEVER will you fucking unwashed RATS FIGHT OVER NOW!?

>>714865843
>>714865995
It also needs to be a decent game in the first place. Pokémon TCG had a good enough game built around it, so people end up sucked into the playing aspect of it as well.

>>714865957
>addressing the argument is goalpost moving

>>714866285
Right unironically looks better

>every single Sonys first party studios output for last 14 years has been big budget AAA third person cinematic experience shit
>only different titles are astrobot and ratchet rift apart both are least selling first party Sony exclusive games in last 15 years
Yeah who would have though that shitting out massive budget le third person "cinematic experiences" for over a decade will cultivate consumerbase that expects this shit and wont even look at smaller and different titles.

>>714866285
Yeah so looks like they couldn't port the snow and water and just left it out, instead of making from scratch.

>>714866063
People use kickstarter interchanging for any crowdfunding.

>>714866186
>Who cares if they games are slightly choppy, you can play them on the go!
What the fuck are you even talking about, Nintendo generally does 60 FPS for their games

>>714865896
>playstation also had better textures because of the disc size
"Better" as in higher res maybe, but textures on PS1 simply didn't look great due to the lack of texture correction and polygon clipping. The Crash Bandicoot devs admitted their games' models relied more on shaded verts than textures for that very reason. I think Crash's model in the first three games only has one texture for his back spot.

>>714866452
Where was BG3 crowd funded?

>>714866497
60 fps baaaad. 120 fps gooood.

>thread about AAA and industry
>snoygger having a meltdown over his furry shovelware from 20 years ago
???

>>714866497
>yo dude, i saw you yesterday crossing the street and beating the shit out of a kid in a wheelchair!
>i didn't cross the street

>>714860717
N64 was better on paper but it had a few obvious shortcomings. The worst of it was that it had a fully programmable GPU that could offload a ton of processing (I've once seen dynamic polygon tessellation done on it). This was great on paper, but in practice Nintendo did not release any docs until the very end, and games had to use the Nintendo-developed GPU code which was extremely inefficient. Devs weren't allowed to customize effects either because Nintendo wanted games to have a uniform look (ie no wobbly polygons like Playstation). Plus you had a very small limit on texture size.

So games had to be downgraded to run fine on the nintendo based gpu code. Meanwhile Sony was making huge upgrades to its devkits, released the docs on the vector coprocessor, and released the performance analyzer that could profile the games hardware usage so you can figure out what bottlenecks your games.
There were like two developers on the N64, Rare and Factor 5, who wrote their own GPU microcode for N64, and they ended up making the best looking games by a mile.

>>714863930
Conker had an insane draw distance, tons of particle effects, mp3 playback, and ran the entire game from 4MB RAM. You could go up the mountain in the hub world and see around for miles with zero fogging. It was incredible at the time.

>>714854524 (OP)
>Doubled the price
ON WHAT
TO DOUBLE THE PRICE YOU HAVE TO SPEND IT ON SOMETHING
ON FUCKING WHAT

>>714854524 (OP)
>jump from ps4 to ps5 doubled the price of development
then develop ps4 games and just release them on ps5? it's that easy. nobody will ever notice if the game itself is good.

>>714866285
GameCube is the more powerful system. Do not believe your lying eyes.

I'm ok with final fantasy 12 (ps2) graphics. Uncharted 2 (ps3) was even over the top.

>>714866743
>if the game itself is good.
Found the main problem.

>>714864769
>Phil just couldn't find that sweetspot that e very authority figure is looking for, where they give their underlings enough freedom to produce greatness but also keep them focused and actually making progress
Yeah, Phil seemed like an OK guy but he was never willing to admit that his hands-off approach to management just doesn't work for video games anymore. Maybe in the 90's, but definitely not for hundred or even thousand person teams. Instead the dude coped that "exclusives don't sell consoles" and that "we lost the worst generation to lose because of digital libraries" and other such nonsense.

I honestly don't see a world where gta6 will not completely fail to meet all the expectations set for it. The pc port and even switch 2 port will be found very quickly to bandaid but still not quite reach what was hoped for.

>>714866661
nintendo has always been like that with 3rd parties, intentionally sabotaging them, because they don't want to be upstaged
same reason they went after palworld so hard

sony back then had the right idea, but now they keep only producing ugly gay garbage and then acting shocked that no one wants them
nintendo games sell today because they haven't turned mario into a black transwoman yet, not because they are of high quality

>>714854524 (OP)
costs increased cause the fags hired DEI women, who won't work more than min hours and make shit

>>714865896
>PlayStation also had better textures because of the disc size

It had better textures because N64 had a hard cap on 4 kilobytes per polygon texture. Playstation could stretch a single texture to cover the entire screen (well, half of it, since it could only draw triangles).

So you either upgraded every model to include more polygons, or wrote custom microcode to tessellate every model dynamically to split the texture across multiple surfaces. Upgrading models would require reworking all assets of the game and would take almost as long as making a game from scratch. Writing custom microcode was VERBOTEN, you must always use the Nintendo microcode which was slooooow.

That left the devs with downgrading the visuals so the game can run and the deadlines are met.

>>714866501
It'll take it over N64 mud textures.

what the fuck is taking so long and requiring so much work? teams of hundreds of people and 5+ years dev cycles. what are all those people doing all that time?

>>714866823
I agree, graphics have been good enough since the ps2 days
Imagine the games we could have now if they did ps2 graphics and focused the budgets on improving interactivity and physics

>>714866981
GF does Pokemon. If Nintendo owned and made Pokemon it wouldn't look like ass

>not because they are of high quality
Last 3D Mario came out 8 years ago and had what, 97 in metacritic score even with the all the Nintendo haters out there. Stop talking out your ass

>>714855595

>>714862219
>investors want 20 to 30 million units sold
the fun part is that both aa and aaa games sell 4-10 million on average, and both brackets have about equal percentage of standout games that sell double digits, as well as complete flops that sell nothing and die in a week. isn't it more logical to develop more aa games and get multiple chances to sell gangbusters than put all the eggs into one big blockbuster that is capped by market saturation anyway?

>>714866708

Ball pits and free cafeteria muffins

>>714862708
With Doom they made physical models of every monster and took photos of every animation frame from 8 directions, so they could get the artwork done extremely fast.

Today you need a team of 100 doing artwork and 3d models for 5 years.

>>714867028
>Writing custom microcode was VERBOTEN, you must always use the Nintendo microcode which was slooooow
I thought Rare wrote their own microcode for their games? I remember the Conker devs talking a bit about it in their playthrough, that's probably why that game looks so fucking good.

But yeah the original N64's microcode was pretty shit.

>>714854524 (OP)
Yeah no shit it's unsustainable it's like needing 8 years to develop a game when a console generation lasts around 10 years is stupid, I guess you could bridge the time between big releases with small AA gam- oh right the fuckers killed those.
Console assholes dug their own grave and now they need to lay in it, sincerely with spite a fan of AA games

>>714854524 (OP)
>lack of an obvious technical jump.
I blame Ray meme tracing.
It held back the entire generation.

>>714866285
Traveller's Tales never put out good Nintendo ports, huh. I remember their SNES ports were pretty shit.

>>714854524 (OP)
AAA games were always unsustainable, really.
Thousands of devs crunching around the clock for possibly two or three years just to release an overpriced product that many people would consider to be complete and uninspired slop.

Meanwhile one guy makes a game about doling out drugs, releases it the same month as some big publishers major release, and outsells them ten times over.

Never forget that AAA games aren't made to be good, they're made to make the shareholders money.

>>714867157
>isn't it more logical to develop more aa games and get multiple chances to sell gangbusters than put all the eggs into one big blockbuster that is capped by market saturation anyway?
It's the blockbuster problem and lack of DVD problem. Same thing happening in the vidya industry, too many huge established franchises, games coming out every single day, too many F2P games that millions play for free, free entertainment, youtube, tiktok, brainrot scrolling the web. Investors want big games that stands out because they believe that's the only way you can success and in a lot of ways they're not wrong. Most smaller games and AA don't do well

>>714867210
Rare was so close to Nintendo back then that they were practically first party. For everyone else, sorry, you're getting gimped development tools.

>>714854524 (OP)
>jump from the PS4 to PS5 AAA games has caused budgets to almost "double"
How?? What are they *actually* spending that money on?

>>714867412
I suppose that makes sense. They really dropped the ball with the N64. No wonder most third parties went to PS1, it *was* a sexy machine.

>>714867470
Influencer marketing.

>>714867394
>two or three years

try 6+ years in most cases at this point

>>714867470
I'd like to be able to compare some accounting for recent AAA compared to earlier eras. Where the fuck is all that money disappearing to?

>>714867210
Rare had a proven track record for doing AAA quality games going back to the SNES, they had an extremely good relationship with Nintendo, so they were allowed access to the original hardware docs (except it was all in japanese) and wrote their own GPU microcode.

Factor 5 also wrote their own microcode, I don't know the story behind that.

>>714867086
Unironically, meetings. Non-stop endless meetings.

>>714855081
>shills immediately trying to damage control over this
Lmao. Dont forget that E33 also sold for less than AAA slop and sold extremely well

>>714861390
The interview said the litterally stalled for 3 years trying to make it work on the og switch.

>>714867086
You forgot how majority of games are like asset flip tier when it comes to design too lol.

>>714867368
the lead coder for TT was some Amiga demoscene autist who wrote crazy effects that maxed out all hardware tricks, shit like that is crazy hard to port.

iirc he had some custom particle effect for the PS2 that allowed them to do thousands of particle effects with animation and 0 performance problems, it was so flexible they ended up using it for even the most mundane shit like a torch on the wall. makes sense that it couldn't be ported to the gamecube, gamecube was good at texturing but the PS2 had ten times the pixel fillrate.

>>714867727
Not stalled, Switch just couldn't handle it so they switched to Switch 2 exclusively. It's literally their biggest franchise, they're gonna take all the time in the world on that

>>714867843
Yeah I remember seeing that video on their PS2 particle system. Cool shit.

>>714862484
We honestly don't need a ps6 in the current climate.

Has Sony released a single game this generation?

>>714867470
Perhaps development costs are ballooning due to increased graphical fidelity: whereas before thanks to 3D assets being simpler they were faster to make and therefore cheaper, now they're too complex for the developers' good so they'll be stuck for days modeling and texturing a single fucking flower pot, multiply that for all the other assets of a game and these guys are getting bogged down on minute bullshit like that. Who could forget Aloy's face hair, an artist was tasked with the ignoble job of implementing such a feature and I'm willing to bet that alone took days to finish. Such a waste of resources all in all

>>714867924
Yes, just that they port them over to the PC within 18 months because they need the Chinabux.

Returnal is excellent.

>>714867509
Sony was still a reputable business then, one of the biggest name in electronics, and they had a huge worldwide distribution network for CDs. If a game was selling very good, you could order more of them and have them in stores within a week. For N64 you had to wait for 1-2 months for new carts to be made, and by that time everyone forgot about your game.

And Sony was still the new player so they did as much as they could do to help devs. Nintendo was still using their NES mindset.

>Continue to push for the newest, shiniest graphics along with a shit load of mocap with no end in sight to this loop.
>”Oh no! This shit has gotten too expensive!”
You dug your own grave, retarded Jap suit.

>>714868056
That was not first party game dude. At least say astroflop.

>>714862219
>I really think consumers would be more than happy with PS4-level graphics forever
I would be extremely happy for late PS2 graphics for ever

>>714867917
The funny thing is PS5 was still overall a sort of good deal before the price increases but I can't see Sony forking over any big money anymore to try to get third party temp. exclusives. Their profit margin is honestly pretty shit even now when Xbox out of the picture. Sony might try to convert the indians and chinese to playstation but they got nothing for the West. Too many people picking up PCs and there's nothing they can do about it. PS6 isn't gonna do PS5 numbers in my opinion, not when their games are on PC

>>714867924
Astro Bot and the remake of demons' souls. 2 exclusive games

>>714868057
>Nintendo was still using their NES mindset
Yeah, that mindset definitely worked back then but you could tell it built up resentment and the moment there was a viable competitor they all left to support that one. These days they're much more hands off, thank fuck, though I'm hearing they're starting to meddle more with third party releases again. Though it's still minor compared to Sony, I'd rather it not happen at all.

>>714868125
Oh right, they didn't didn't buy Housemarque until 9 months later. It's still a Sony IP, though.

Astrobot is good though.

>>714868127
>upscaled emulator screenshots

show how those games looked on the real console. Most games ran at like 320x224. If you were lucky they used 512x448 but it was INTERLACED. I think I played one single game that ran in 480p on the PS2 (Gradius V).

the graphical arms race is a prisoner's dillemma. it would be better if all opted out of it and focused resources elsewhere, but if even just one chases the rabbit, then consumers will flood in to give their money away for the next graphical fidelity benchmark.

>>714868201
Can't speak for India but they're pursuing China via Steam because specifically because the Chinese weren't biting when they tried to push the PS4 and PS5 there. China has no modern console culture because they were banned there from 2000-14.

>>714854524 (OP)
>cram third-party software and middlesware to collect all kinds of data, enforce anti-tampering/cheats that do nothing, DRMs that don't prevent piracy, payment systems for lootboxes, etc
>spend literal billions in marketing
>"It's costly to develop these quality AAA games so we have to ask you pay 100$ now!"
Fuck off.

>>714868057
>they did as much as they could do to help devs
*They threw around as much money as they could to remove 3rd parties from the competition.

>>714868247
DVDplayer2 babies will never admit how fucking bad the games looked on the consoles on a state of the art TV back then. Was like getting bleach laced sand thrown into my eyes back then when I go a ps2 as gcn kid.

>>714864680
No he didn't and the few shit they made was straight DEIslop of the highest order

>>714868384
Chinese might just pirate everything anyways and the rich Chinese might still choose Nintendo over Playstation lmao. I think Nintendo wins in a lot of countries just with their IPs and form factor alone. In a ADHD society and everyone has minimal attention span a hybrid console simply beats a traditional console

>>714867403
Ultimately it comes down to what investors understand. Investors don't understand gameplay, they understand brand and opulence, so they push for that. Surely if they tell the players they've spent the annual GDP of Romania on this game people will be more likely to buy it, surely that won't backfire and make them judge it to higher standards instead.
Meanwhile 910 gives the Animal Crossing guy green light to make a little inexpensive side project, and it outsells PS4's biggest hits. On a fucking WiiU. Yes, Nintendo's brand helped, but in the end, it sold WiiUs to people who would previously play Halo. Not an exaggeration, I personally know a guy who did that.
Also see- Minecraft, Rocket League, even Fortnite, all started as low-budget side projects with nothing but gameplay backing them up, and all ended up as some of the biggest games of our generation.

There was a time where you made game buying decisions based on screenshots in a magazine. Maybe you got a demo, or trailer on a disc. But there wasn't video reviews or being able to watch the entire game on YouTube.

Devs had to work very hard to capture your imagination with screenshots, despite the now basic graphics.

What are they doing now? Spending hundreds of millions on marketing. Look at the Marathon cinematic trailer, how much was that? Now trashed because of the art theft.

>>714868807
>DVDplayer2 babies will never admit how fucking bad the games looked on the consoles on a state of the art TV back then.

If you had a state of the art TV, you didn't fucking care how a PS2 game looked, because on a 36" widescreen progressive scan Sony Wega everything looked fucking awesome. We had one, it was insane.

>>714854524 (OP)
If dev costs went up by an order of magnitude but gamers can't tell the difference, why not just keep making PS4-level games? All gamers will notice is that they run much faster on PS5.

Lies of P DLC is on PS4, looks amazing, why does it need to be any better than that?

>>714869047
Spend millions of dollars on a trailer that won't get a million views.

>>714868127
I want old tri-Ace back.

>>714869228
Can't unsee the star of david

>>714855706
The problem with photo-realism chasing graphicsfags is that's all they know how to do. So of course they'll lobby to stay the course within their companies for as long as possible. I agree that most customers don't care about raw fidelity, they just want good art direction

>>714869246
>SOVL STREET

>>714868930
Exactly. Like Nintendo can do their own thing and ignored shooters forever because their other IPs were so strong and it wouldn't make much sense for them to make a shooting game pre-gyro controls and then they went all in on that and created one of the best shooters.
Sony/Xbox always competed for power too, they were third party machines but that means PC just wins eventually.
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/andrew-house-ps4-s-main-competitor-isn-t-the-xbox-it-s-the-pc
>"I saw some data that really influenced me," he continues. "It suggested that there's a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that's obviously where it’s to be had."

>even Fortnite, all started as low-budget side projects with nothing but gameplay backing them up, and all ended up as some of the biggest games of our generation.
I still don't understand why Sony was so slow to the live service trend and battle royale. All they've ever made were shooting games. Sony's problem is they're way too slow to industry trends, even the biggest trends. If you look at all the studios they've closed down that's part of the problem, you can't create games if you don't have the manpower and talent. They're not building institutional knowledge like Nintendo is doing

>>714869154
Then gamers will laugh at you for being backward and le max payne man will put your game in a compilation showing regression.

>>714854524 (OP)
Perhaps they should take notes from Nintendo.

>>714868930
And even on their bigger franchises, they don't stop experimenting there either. Mario Kart World decided to add an entire world around the tracks that you'd be free to drive around, and even changed how the Grand Prix Cup tracks worked due to it + added more core mechanics that would alllow for more options on the routes between the tracks and the tracks themselves. So now World is the most Mario that Mario Kart has ever been.

>>714869228
Concord is going to be in books decades from now about how not to make a game.
It is the very definition of AAA slop that no one asked for except for shareholders ticking check boxes.

>>714855081
Wasn't Bg3 bankrolled by Blackrock and developed by Indians?

>>714868247
>show how those games looked on the real console.
that doesn't matter. these ps2 assets look good on modern hardware, thus modern games can be made with ps2 budgets. they just aren't.

>>714869228
Drag x drive has half of its views already

>>714869246
Sorry chuddie but this is Valkyrie now

>>714867394
>Meanwhile one guy makes a game about doling out drugs, releases it the same month as some big publishers major release, and outsells them ten times over.
It's because the premise is much more engaging, what other game lets you be a drug dealer?

>>714854524 (OP)
>>714854524 (OP)
Explain why they can't port
>Jak trilogy
>Ratchet games
>OG gow trilogy
>Infamous
>Gravity rush
>Classic ps games
To PC
Why is only cuckmann the only one allowed to port his shit

>>714861109
No wonder WoW killers never take off, blizzard keeps hiring them!

>>714854524 (OP)
We've known this since the ps4

>>714869574
And it probably doesn't have nearly as much of the vitriol that Concord got; I bet you Sony would gladly cut 50-70% of views if it meant people weren't just hatewatching it.

Graphics whores are the death of games.

No I don't think spend 3 million dollars in face pore tech is a good idea.

>>714869365
>Sony's problem is they're way too slow to industry trends
Yup even when they started they started spamming furry mascot shovelware when that trend was almost out completely.

>>714854524 (OP)
Please kill all consoles

>>714860550
They unironically should have made a Bazz only game

>>714869353

>>714869797
Well, from an objective angle, Nintendo will probably survive since they don't have the same problems.

>>714869662
>Jak trilogy
ND hates those games now
>Ratchet games
Didn't the latest one flop on steam?
>OG gow trilogy
Santa Monica hates those games
>Infamous
Sucker Punch hates those games now
>Gravity rush
>Classic ps games
Sony cares so little about those games that Bamco are the ones releasing them.
Outside of marketing and for updoots from boomers, Sony absolutely despises their past. Especially the PS2 era of their catalog.

>>714869365
>it wouldn't make much sense for them to make a shooting game pre-gyro controls
Wii was actually chock full of shooters, IR pointer controls were great for FPS. And post-2009 Wii could do modern gyro controls too, it was just never used in that geneation and only ever saw light of day in, funnily enough, Splatoon itself.

>>714860386
GC had a shitty undeclocked CPU compared to the PS2 and Xbox
You could have beatiful games but cant have alot of shit going on at the same time or else the system might shit itself, this is the real reason GTA3, VC, and SA never made it to the system, games like NFSU2 also had less predestian cars on the street and Burnout 3 didnt even bother releasing for that piece of shit
>b-b-but muh RE4
a port Capcom had to rush in under a year because RE4's numbers wernt looking good

>>714867845
Yeah and for 3 years they were basically halted because they didn't want to make any compromises while trying to make it work on the og switch.

>>714869375
>le max payne man will put your game in a compilation showing regression.
He should have spent his time making sure Alan Wake 2 was a fun game instead.

>>714869662
Don't forget Killzone 2 with online. God I'd kill for a port that'd let me play K2 on mouse and keyboard, the way shooters are meant to be played, K2 came out 1 year after CoD4 and after playing it you just couldn't go back to any other console FPS, it was just that much smoother whereas K2 had one of its only drawbacks be a major one: the sluggish camera

>>714869950
>ND hates those games
You mean Neil shitmann does

>>714859297
Why are they all squinting as if they were looking at the sun?

>>714855706
They're not catering to customers.
They're catering to shareholders who will withdraw funding unleas they're "confident in their investments" meaning they get to control the project. They are out of touch and wind up sabotaging things more often than not.
But normalfags do also think that graphical quality equates to polish and care. It is evidence the game is good to them.

>>714869468
>Mario Kart World decided to add an entire world around the tracks that you'd be free to drive around
Oh my god, they've added... something that was all the rage 20 years ago. AND managed to make everyone hate that addition too. Sasuga.
Post-Iwata Nintendo is a lot more shareholder-driven, so I feel like "make MK open world, like all the Forza Horizons and Crews that are popular now" was a shareholder decision. They even showcased cruising around the map as a feature, something people do in car racing games because people like the cars but will most likely not do in a kart racer because it's boooriiing.

>>714864843
the chick with the helmet works the best specifically because you can't see whatever horrible abomination they have set up as her face underneath

>>714856998
E33 folks outsource combat animation to 8 Koreans, everything else is made in house. If anything E33 is evidence that studios need to cut down on outsourcing.

>>714869365
>>I still don't understand why Sony was so slow to the live service trend and battle royale
Sony is a very reactive company.

>>714857439
Another industry like what? Do people in other tech companies get to sit around all day and do nothing? Cause that would explain why all the tech companies are laying off people recently.

>>714870352
And where, pray tell, is Need For Speed today?

>so I feel like "make MK open world, like all the Forza Horizons and Crews that are popular now" was a shareholder decision
It's not how they operate, dude. You don't get games like Splatoon from shareholders, they don't even wanna talk about video games, they don't play them, they just want profit

It's kinda a blessing that nintendo is behind a tech generation in this regard.
As dev costs are probably still going to remain relatively manageable.

>>714869634
modern games and their fucking fog man

>>714854524 (OP)
Nintendo is undoubtedly the least retarded console maker left.
They figured this shit out after the gamecube.

>>714854524 (OP)
It's not that games have became unsustainably expensive to make. It's that they are spending money on stupid shit that no one is asking for.

Where's bloodborne remaster/bloodborne 2??

Instead, they'll spend 400 million usd on concord.

>>714870568
>they don't even wanna talk about video games
I remember reading a summary from one of Nintendo's shareholder meetings where one of the shareholders complained they talk too much about games. Made me laugh.

>>714869993
>The GameCube version of Resident Evil 4 sold 1.6 million copies

Wow. Were they expecting this to be a system seller?

>>714870707
I don't understand it, for that money Sony could have gotten their own Elden Ring-sized Bloodborne 2. The only game that would get me to just go buy a PS5, since I know Death Standing 2 will eventually be on Xbox and PC.

>>714870568
That's why I'm saying that. Splatoon 1 was still under Iwata, so it is still pure. Fast forward to Splat3 and you see franchise wank, stupid amounts of grind, gacha-tier player retention mechanics (despite no in-game purchases lol) and some of the most blatant engagement-based matchmaking in all of online gaming. Those are all clearly investor demands. "Look, everyone else is doing it and they are making mad bank, you should do it too". Nintendo of today and Nintendo of 10 years back are entirely different.
>>714870728
That man should've been kicked out of the meeting and publically shamed henceforth.

>>714871012
Iwata died in 2013, BOTW came out in 2017, so he was there and approved those things as well most likely and open world had been popular since GTA 3 came out. Nintendo didn't start jumping on trends or care what shareholders thinks, trust me. Their younger developers wanted to make Splatoon, Zelda embracing open world made perfect sense, Nintendo talked about not being able to MK9 MK8D because it was basically perfect already so it makes sense why MKW went open world, they needed to do something new and different.

>>714858469
Nothing more pathetic than screencaping your own posts

>>714861096
C-Tier OPM villains look way better than these losers
They look more like background characters in a cape comic that are intentionally designed to look lame, like The Boys or something, but in this case they’re not designed that way on purpose

>>714870774
its kind of bad when comparing it to the PSX games wich sold about 5 million copies

>>714854524 (OP)
deserved for pushing for that utter blight of a "franchise"

>>714870774
Wasn't it part of punishing Sony for their faggotry in relation to 2D games?

>>714870085
>he doesn't squints at the constant blinding brightness of his future
RMAO

>>714870393
They also outsourced QA and optimization iirc. Your point still stands though

>>714871806

>>714871263
Iwata died shortly after Splatoon's release, so 2015, and BotW was in development long before that. But BotW's pitch was not necessarily open world Zelda, but rather what Zelda 1 would be if it was made with modern tech- open-ended, serene, nobody tells you what to do, and some areas being too spicy for a naked Link with a stick only nudging you to maybe not do something. It's open because Zelda 1 was open, not because it was trendy.
In a similar way, Splat1's pitch was a territorial game, not necessarily a shooter. In an interesting way, Splatoon's gunplay kinda feels like it branched off the original Doom and went its own way, separate from modern shooters that went with the Quake branch instead.

>>714854524 (OP)
Nintendo really was the only one smart enough to not fall for the AAA meme.

>>714870906
I truly believe herman hulst, the previous ceo, is afraid of japanese side having leverage against the western branch after he fucking gutted their influence in the company when playstation moved to california, which is why even though there are tons of fans demanding for bb's remaster, it just never happen.

It's all office politics.

>>714868127
I said ps4 because no one can really tell difference between a ps4 and 5 game unless it was pointed out by homosexual foundry

>>714870057
KZ2 was pretty great, a slower, more tactical shooter. 3 was just COD.

>>714854524 (OP)
graphics should have stopped improving in the PS2 Era
you don't need better graphics

>>714872079
>Splatoon's gunplay kinda feels like it branched off the original Doom

Lol, what? No

>>714854524 (OP)
Sony is directly responsible for killing everything that isn't AAA or indiesloppa
Fuck these fucking retards

>>714871667
it was Shinji Mikami throwing a melty because the Emotion Engine was a pain to develop for and Sony just brushed off his criticism and he took it as betrayal wich is why alot of Capcom games started off as GC exclusives like Vieuwtiful Joe and REremake
RE4 getting ported was the last straw and he left Capcom because of it

Smaller european companies are more than happy to fund smaller AAA and AA games and receive moderate profits
And they doing pretty well.

Meanwhile American corporations think AA don'ts mean anything unless they do it get dei points or funding

>>714854524 (OP)
i just hate how online is the focus of most games now

>>714870352
If anything, they've probably tried to make a mode where you can cruise around in your kart for some time since the Royal Raceway easter egg, especially after having mostly iterated on previous Mario Karts.

>>714855081
But think of the diversity hires!

>>714872832
wouldnt surprise me, nintendo doesnt throw away any of their old ideas into the trash if they cant make them work but just keep them on ice

>>714872251
Why a remaster? The original game runs fine. Let's have a sequel instead.

>>714869527
It was bankrolled by the users but also various EU goverments

>>714870393
>If anything E33 is evidence that studios need to cut down on outsourcing.
I disagree because i want devs to laser focus on a concrete vision for the game and all work in that direction. That alone would cut down at least half of the development time.

>>714855595
DOOM 1 and 2 were made by like 12 dudes.

>>714872930
That, and stuff like sectional tracks debuting in 7 and Tour indicate to me they've been thinking about having tracks set in a fully explorable world where you're able to drive between tracks since at least back then.

>>714859738
It was actually the og XBOX

>>714869662
Sometime ago a journo asked ND why they ported Uncharted 4 before the Legacy Collection on PC, and their response was that they felt they would need to remake the games to release them on PC. Considering the oldest game Sony ported so far is from 2017, I assume that's a Sony wide feeling.
So no, we will never get any of those games unless they get a demake that completely fucks with the original game like TLOU Part 1, Until Dawn or Demon Souls.

>>714872821
Because you can't sell MTX without systems that let children flex cosmetics on other children

>>714873335
Yeah but look at the art and animation. That's what takes so long.

Roblox

>>714873485
The Xbox was a fucking beast. Halo looked so good on there, most people didn't play it until the PC release and have no idea what the game is supposed to look like.

>>714860324
Now lets see RE4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_MBy3MX2nI

PS2 is missing a bunch of effects.

>>714873556
It'll never not be funny how Tim Sweeney is trying to tell you the industry standard of 30% is evil while Roblox not only exists but thrives

>>714873503
is it children who post all the gacha threads on /v/?

>>714854524 (OP)
>>The PlayStation brand is known for its massive, cinematic AAA single-player experiences

Man...

>>714859738
PS2 was similar to PS3, in the sense that it was hell to program for it, GC full potential was much easier to utilize.

>>714873556
My kids, boy 11 girl 12, are obsessed with this trash game called Forsaken on Roblox. It's short rounds where everyone has to run away from 1 player who is a serial killer, there many serial killer characters with skins. They all look like shit, the game looks shit, it plays shit. But they are hooked like many other children. The makers of this must be making bank selling awful skins.

They play the music from game which is on Spotify.

>>714869662
Gravity Rush 1 and 2 are already in in-game status on shadps4

>>714854524 (OP)
The problem is ego
You’ve got a lot of people running around thinking they’re top shit and will bully you with fabricated claims of hate (homophobia, etc) for not giving into their absurd salary and resource demands
Everyone thinks they’re the next Carmack or Kojima without even getting their feet wet, so they flop into the scene with zero knowledge of business or project management, bankrupting themselves through ridiculous demands and stupidity
The recent AI push brought this out into the open, because the level of slop garbage these airheads can make is on par with shitty AI content, so they get uppity when they’re revealed to be the shams that they are

>>714855231
>no one owns a fucking ps5 lmao
Cope, 75 million units sold and counting.

>>714855112
Jeets are the problem, they look cheap at first then you realize that their work is crap and full of bigs and tour contract only allow for infinite retakes so no matter what you are in dev hell and money start to bleed. One of the worst thing is that despite being a former brit colony they have abysmal english and do t understand anything technical. They say yes the whole time then jist guess their next update. And they will get really angry if you question their english level.

>>714873650
I thought we were talking about real games
But the worst ones have FOMO that's almost as bad as gacha and both are making tons of money

>>714854524 (OP)
And then we have BG3 and Clair Obscur

>>714870623
It's funny to think PS2 brutally mogging Game Cube is one of the reasons that put Nintendo on that path

>>714855906
imagine getting 12 million jeeters on the scene to waste untold millions on your regurgitated slop, while your main team makes fat girls with facial hair, gay men in leaves, a gigantic, empty open world, photoscanning in a bunch of actors nobody cares about, and nintendo just copy pastes the game that killed your first game, and kills your second game too lmao

>>714873674
Kind of funny how their speciality screwed them over in the long run.

>>714854524 (OP)
Proves PS2 was best era
serviceable graphics, still cheap as fuck to develop, no monopolies on genres or franchises yet

>>714855906
You know remember the E3 bullshit about Snakes mustache in MGS4
They've literally always been like this

>>714873503
the internet really was a mistake

>>714862330
Games in general should be shorter but more replayable. Dark Ages is bloated if anything.

>>714867470
LOL

>>714874892
I was just thinking about how I'd rather have a 2 hour game with a bunch of branching choices rather than a 20 hour game with no choices.

>>714854524 (OP)
so what happens after ps6 doubles the cost again? west will only have call of duty and gta lmao

>>714871012
>Those are all clearly investor demands. "Look, everyone else is doing it and they are making mad bank, you should do it too"

Anon, I can assure you those engagement mechanics are not for investor demands but Nintendo's own internal research. Investors will ask for the easiest shortcut routes to money (go mobile! which they did and pretty much gave up on) or in Nintendo investors' case, talk about games.

>>714854524 (OP)
>as it was just before the cost of making huge games skyrocketed.
Was the same thing during 7th and 8th Gen these retards don't learn

>>714861109
Lovely nepotism, is it really a wonder AAA is on it's deathbed?

>>714866292
PC vs consoles
Been happning for quite some time now

I just hope all the ceo's and suits end up homeless and dying of hunger on the side of the street. Burn baby burn.

>>714861495
It didn't become that way until women got involved.

>>714854524 (OP)
WHY WOULD IT BE HARDER TO DEVELOP FOR A CONSOLE WITH BETTER PERFORMANCE. MAKE IT MAKE SENSE

>>714877267
There had been women for several years, but they were in it for merit, not because they had a college degree and went straight to HR.

>>714877302
>Muh graphics
>Muh Hollywood production
>Muh marketing
>Muh bigger number
>Budget triples
All there is to it, they don't even care about margins.

>>714877302
Because the people they hire are dumber than a kindergartner

>>714877302
Horse testicle mechanics

>>714877874
FULLY MODELED
https://screenrant.com/red-dead-redemption-2-horse-balls-shrink/

>>714861109
I don't have THAT webm saved on my computer, but yeah I could tell

>>714860526
It’s the same thing that’s happening to Hollywood. It’s an American thing. They waste and demand stupid amount of money to do a job that’d take 1/3rd that amount, and then they whine about “deserving” more money and not making enough, when they’re being massively over-paid.

>>714877302
You don't get it anon. With added fidelity, we must also add details. You want to see Aloy's realistic peach fuzz on her cheeks, don't you?

>>714861685
>magic formula of making cheaper smaller games that sell a lot
soul

>>714877302
>I AM ANGRY SO I GET TO BE RETARDED
The human labor necessary to generate higher fidelity assets outpaces the benefits of higher spec system and tools. it's debatable to what extent that's actually true but the basic idea is obvious. happened in the seventh gen.

>>714873321
Game development is a collaborative process, having a "concrete vision" is easier said than done when you have tens if not hundreds of devs all having their own tastes, fetishes and expectations. Outsourcing complicates this process by a lot cause just managing a studio is already a lot of work, now you need to manage an outsider studio with a timezone/cultural/possibly language barrier. And ensuring what they produce is according to your "vision" is not a trivial task. Which is how you end up people being hired to manage those who manage those who manage those that make the games.

I don't really understand why costs increase so much just because the hardware is more powerful. It's not like making the same game but increasing the resolution and final frame rate would cost more...

>>714868247
What's with you fucking retards always saying "now show how those games looked back then", NIGGER WHO FUCKING CARES??? Does that invalidate ANY of the various arguments??? How about you stop with your worthless posts made only because for some fucking reason you want to look like an asshole?

>>714878181
i dont think a single person asked for this. people basedgasmed over the bubbles in gta6's beer as if it were a new thing (half life alyx already did realistic foam physics entirely with shaders years ago) but if rockstar announced tomorrow gta6 will cost a hundred bucks theyd throw a fit so large aliens could see it from space

>>714855112
Hi Todd. How did this pan out for starfield?
>>714854524 (OP)
Anyways why would dev costs double on a new console? I doubt the kits are much more expensive than ps4 ones were pre-launch and more onboard resources means devs can optimize shit even less. If anything, costs going up can surely be attributed to the credits reel taking an hour to scroll through instead of five minutes. Hire straight white men, make the female models sexy and not fat/ugly, and don't have rants about pronouns. That'll fix budgets and sell games.
Like, if I had a few million bucks, I'd just open an AA studio myself. There's no competition right now.

>>714874892
>Games in general should be shorter but more replayable
wasnt really a probably back in the day, when you finished one game there were plenty of other good games coming out that you could play

>>714878930
Vidya is literally bigger than everything else and companies want to increse prices because they can, it's not like GTA 6 costing $80-100 has anything to do with it being pricier to make. It's slightly more expensive than COD or whatever. They make mountains of money and they'll sit on 6 for like 15 years

>>714854524 (OP)
RETURN to "AA" mid budget ludokinographié

>>714880020
>It's slightly more expensive than COD or whatever
GTA6 is massively more expensive than any CoD. That's like one case where extra price is actually justified. But execs are pushing towards $80 being the new normal, so GTA6 will cost 80 AND CoD will cost 80, and that is bullshit.

>>714859738
The N64 was completely incapable of reproducing the images and audio that were necessary for games from 1995 onwards. Whether it was powerful in some kind of computational processing is completely irrelevant when everything that console rendered on the screen was a complete visual disaster, and all the audio it reproduced was of very low quality. It was also incapable of storing all the content necessary for games of that time, because it was built by people who did not understand what modern games needed. It was also incapable of rendering higher quality textures that games were already demanding. It was also incapable of offering a decent experience because every game on it has at least 80-100ms of input lag, even those that run more or less well.
In other words, the N64 was a terrible video game system, extremely deficient in practically every parameter that matters and it is no wonder that all the games it presented to the public were stupidly ugly and without any appeal. The Saturn and PSX, when used by competent teams, had games that were MUCH more attractive in terms of audio-visual content than the N64 (compare for example Sega Rally on the Saturn with any rally you can find for the N64).
So the idea that the N64 was the most powerful console is quite controversial. It had the raw power for certain types of processes, but those things didn't translate into good games, so it was kind of pointless.

>>714878631
>tens if not hundreds of devs all having their own tastes, fetishes and expectations.
And that is why it's not a democracy. Game dev, like all creative work, has to be a dictatorship. One man sets the course, one man who is responsible.

>>714880390
It might be more expensive than COD but COD also spends a shitton on marketing that's my point. And it's not like rockstar or take2 isn't gonna spend a ton on marketing but still. No other industry works like this. If some megahuge movie or whatever comes out they still all cost the same price unless it's some weird special format.

>>714858469

>>714880585
N64 games sucked also because people didn't have know-how of making decent lowpoly 3D art.

And it all goes back to the core issue. Graphicsfags. Graphicsfags ruined video games and made all the budget expand into comically high costs. It's AAA developer's faults for constantly trying to push graphics, now look where that got them. You can fucking hold that.

>>714854524 (OP)
Literally how? UE5 made game development easy as shit.

Really wish I could've nepo baby'd my way into this industry. Sounds like they have no vision or road map when they design shit. What really kills me is the rows of assholes "jamming out code" really? You're telling me in this day and age where every fucking game is made on the same fucking engine they can't repurpose some fucking mook code for your dead beat enemies?
>oh but its behavioral and variable sensitive
Oh gosh gee golly 5 to 6 lines that need slight editing and you have a whole fucking work day and a team of people to do it.

Death, death to each and every one of them.

>>714871263
>>714872079
The reason nintendo is doing open worlds today is thanks to monolift soft and xenoblade x, they were so amaze by what could be done on in their console that they started to make open world everything with monolift help, hell monolift have a second studio that it only job is to help nintendo with games.

>>714880190
wont happen, the future is games as a service

>>714859127
Yeah they just force them gamepass only then shutter them after the sales numbers dont make up for development costs

>>714855706
Ray Tracing and 4K is singlehandedly pushed by Nvidia to justify their never-ending GPU race against themselves.

>>714882452
>
you remember when good gpus cost less than 300$? i remember

>>714860526
>they would split up their studios into smaller 60 person groups at most
some of these companies have thousands of devs. this would lead to making too many games in a short period of time and most of these game would be low to mid quality while good ones might be drowned while competing with slop and left unnoticed like VTMB. just look at what's happening in indie space, it's practically impossible to find someone pushing original or fun ideas, everyone is in it for the money while recycling old ideas that already worked praying on your nostalgia or FOMO. like some anons already said nintendo has find the perfect balance for team size and budgets, people making their games are passionate which makes the end result exceptional.

>>714874306
also the internet was in its infancy, so we didnt have to deal with the monetization we now find it games

>>714882238
good luck fighting chinks with fat ugly trannies and POCs

>>714883182
You could have big and small teams, performance based compensation for workers and managers.

>>714869527
no, you stupid fucking retarded faggot

>>714878181
Aloy's got a FANTASTIC rack, just so you know...

>>714878957
>but if rockstar
Excuse me, we call that company Cockstar here, just so you know..

>>714884825
I'd rather call them Jewstar if you don't mind. Oy vey.

>>714880390
>That's like one case where extra price is actually justified
No it aint

>>714855332
>exclusives
>also on PC
Pick one.
>>714856060
Neither does PlayStation.
>>714856108
Cope. It's either an exclusive game or it isn't.

>>714884739
this nigga would hit a literal pig if someone were to superglue an oppai mousepad on it LMAO

>>714869382
yoshitp is not a creator hes a businessman

>>714883182
>some of these companies have thousands of devs. this would lead to making too many games in a short period of time and most of these game would be low to mid quality
As opposed to making barely any games that are still of low to medium quality.
With studio sizes that large actual coordination is impossible, especially when dealing with mediocre management interlayers.
>Nintendo has find the perfect balance for team size and budgets
And that's still not thousands of people. With very on-the-ball management you can maybe deal with more people with only minimal losses in efficiency, but most of these studios don't really have that.

>>714885323
So? Nothing wrong with that.

>>714854524 (OP)
>"o-our budget keeps doubling. we're in dire straits!"
>"I know, let's keep pumping out garish moviegames chock-full of eyecandy instead of going back to PS2 era games focused on . that will surely help matters"
why is the industry so retarded

>>714865301
>Horizon
I loved it, but I'm a 29yo depressed neet.

>>714886185
it all comes down to ppl making decisions (not devs) i.e. managerial class and publicly traded companies being the absolute worst environments for creative process and creating art.

>>714887001
I know a few people who do but it doesn't seem to have left a huge impact on vidya on a whole. I think I like the concept art and idea more than I do the actual execution. I once went to a museum exhibit to look at some game concept art and it was kinda sad to compare the amazing concept art to the final product.

Just curious: I've heard from a few fans that liked/loved the original that the sequel is shit. Your take on that?

>Quit trying to make everything high fidelity photorealism. Branch out and try different art styles
>Don't have teams of literal thousands working on a single fucking product
>Actually optimize the game and stop trying to pass the buck onto customers and their hardware
>Take a "No, we should fix this now. Patches are for smaller stuff." attitude when it comes to unfucking games

>>714867924
Stellar blade

>Don't have teams of literal thousands working on a single fucking product
Then how do you expect me to get all my nephews,nieces,friends,and people I owe favors to onto the consultants list? These people need to be paid too anon.

>>714868739
xenosaga?

>>714887917
3 specifically

>>714854524 (OP)
We knew this from leaked Snoy budget plan. All their bloated AAa games are barely breaking even.

>makes overexpensive movie games
>not sustainable after first play
No shit

>>714854524 (OP)
>can't compete with real games because they lost the knowhow after ps2 gen and pushing nothing but cinematic movie slop to this day
>can't compete with service gacha slop because they're too woke too make cute anime waifus and too up their own ass to offer free to play
IT'S OVER

>>714887607
That's just a 3rd party game they paid to delay other platforms

>>714864680
No, he didn't, he made a terrible subscription service which screwed up their first party games sales, went for the lowest quality possible with their games, took more than 10 years to finish a game, kept putting their games everywhere, and forcefully shoved DEI shit into all of their games. Xbox never stood a chance.

>>714869662
Good. The brand's already been destroyed enough to the point where the damage is unfixable.
Just fucking emulate.

>>714870057
Fucking use RPCS3 then. I play KZ2 online on my laptop quite frequently.

SONY ARE YOU OK
SONY ARE YOU OK
ARE YOU OK SONY
SONY ARE OK
SONY ARE YOU OK
ARE YOU OK SONY
SONY ARE YOU OK
WILL YOU TELL YOU THAT YOU'RE OK?
THERE'S NO SIGN OF EXCLUSIVES
ALL MULTIPLATS
ALL ON PC SONY
YOU CAME IN WITH LIVE SERVICE
IMAGES OF GRANDEUR
BUT THEY ALL FLOPPED
YOU'RE FANS ARE SEETHING
IT WAS YOUR DOOM
SONY ARE OK
SO SONY ARE YOU OK
ARE YOU OK SONY
SONY ARE YOU OK
SO SONY ARE YOU OK
ARE YOU OK SONY
YOU'VE BEEN RAPED BY
YOU'VE BEEN GAPED BY
A CONPUTER CRIMINAL

>>714854524 (OP)
RIP IN PISS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mAlnkHH9us

>>714861203
>BG3 was worked on by 2000 developers
that number is highly inflated you fucking dumb lefty retard. voice actors having 3 entries, countless QA, countless special thanks.
fuck off

>>714867262
for real, AA was always the cream of the crop in terms of being games that i want to play