Thread 714881341

Why are indie games not comfy, even if they're actively trying to be

They almost always have a distinct lack of human warmth

>>714881341 (OP)
I have no idea what those images are trying to convey in regards to your message or what lack of human warmth you're talking about in general

>>714881529
OP is a bot and the color palette used by these games confuses it.

>>714881529
Golembro..

>>714881341 (OP)
Contrarian bait thread

>>714881341 (OP)
>Incel indie game hater is scared of the outdoors

>>714882940
My issue is that none of them actually feel like the outdoors, they feel like artificial plastic spaces

>>714881341 (OP)
Old game developers were inspired by life experiences
New game developers are inspired by older games
So when trying to make a fictional space, they pull upon their memories of older games depicting that space, rather than tangible places/locations in the real world

>>714881341 (OP)
I don't have that problem, when an indie game is trying to be comfy it generally is.

>>714881341 (OP)
i like how taxi looks

>>714883868
How long have we been repeating this meme? 15 years? Pretending that all the great devs of old had never played a video game and were solely trying to transcribe their "real life experience" is literally the level 1 "don't just try to make a clone for your first game" advice, it's not actual reality.

>>714881341 (OP)
this is the problem with having a powerful (basically free) engine that let's you easily create big worlds but you don't have the team or time or budget to fill it with hand crafted content.
So you mainly use presets, assets, shader, tutorials to create your game that everyone uses so you create more of the same with some variations.

>>714881341 (OP)
Bottom right looks soulful and comfy

>>714884248
It goes deeper than that, on every scale

When looking for inspiration for a game you can look to real life experiences which will likely result in a vision and take unique to you, or to other media which will be slightly less original, or games which will be derivative, or games based on other games based on other games etc which will result in schizophrenic feeling fictional universes etc

On a smaller scale when trying to make a tree asset, you can personally try to create a tree sprite or model based on real trees you personally observed, or on ways other artists have already interpreted trees in art and cartoons, or on ways game artists have already created tree assets, and the deeper down you go the more of a caricature the tree becomes

Compare the trees in >>714883652 which have size and color variations in the leaves, deep black shadows in the canopy, textured bark, realistic proportions etc, to the trees in bottom right in the OP which use the Sonic checkerboard pattern over a handful of low poly spheres and a cartoony trunk and don't evoke the feelings of a tree in any way and feel more like abstract iconography

>>714888234
Who knew Popeye led to Everhood.
Interesting chart anon.

>>714888234
>Avowed is inspired by Skyrim
Why would I take this image seriously?

>>714881341 (OP)
cold, sterile, inauthentic

>>714888853
It was literally marketed as Obsidian's answer to TES

https://www.windowscentral.com/details-xbox-exclusive-avowed-obsidian-outer-worlds-meets-medieval-fantasy

>>714889140
So? There's nothing unusual about marketing being like that. Marketing always tries catering to lowest common denominator.
And your link isn't even a good example of that cause it has two mentions of Skyrim in it and both of them are from the author himself.
Avowed is not remotely inspired by Skyrim in any way.
Your image is retarded.

>>714889348
This was the first ever gameplay footage of the game revealed, I don't know many other modern first person fantasy RPGs where you wield magic in your left and a sword in your right hand

>And your link isn't even a good example of that cause it has two mentions of Skyrim in it and both of them are from the author himself.
Illiterate? "We were told Avowed will feature multiple class playstyles and borrow from Skyrim's two-handed combat system."

>>714889846
So your logic is circular.
>There are no other "modern" first person fantasy RPGs, so Avowed has to be inspired by Skyrim, you see how modern games have to be inspired by something else?
You obviously did not play Avowed or you wouldn't have made this retarded comparison to begin with. The game is completely like a first person Pillars with some added casualizations on top (None of which are from Elder Scrolls), such as forced companions, for example. The influences are very clearly Baldur's Gate and Dungeons and Dragons in general, plus fantasy fiction. The structure of the game is nothing like Elder Scrolls open world.
As for the quote, first off, that can be read as the author being the one who brings up Skyrim, but even if one of the developers said "It's like Skyrim", that doesn't mean the game is inspired by Skyrim, it's just the easiest point of comparison to communicate something.

So, yeah, that image tells me that your arguments are very poorly thought out and your thesis is incorrect. This guy >>714884248 was right to call you out.

>>714888234
If I understand you correctly: the more far removed from nature one's inspiration is, the flatter/iconographic the result

Like if the height of a cube was linked to the ratio between the original natural form and how far down the derivation chain the inspiration is.
The tree in >>714883652 being closer to 1:1.25 and the other sonic-like tree in bottom right in the OP being more like 1:5 —the resulting percentage indicating the dilution of the original irl form of the inspiration. Like 1% juice vs 100% juice

>>714891969
Pretty much, each derivation removes more and more of the actual features of the source material, while hyper focusing on a few key exaggerated features which makes the result feel abstract and iconographical rather than real and personally relatable

>>714892779
The hypothetical I'd propose to you, then, is how would you differentiate between an artist who looked at a real person and drew the character on the far right, vs an artist who looked at the stage 3 character and also resulted in the far right character

Essentially, how do you differentiate between two identical results with different ratios? I don't think you can base the depth/emotional resonance of an artistic depiction entirely on how far removed it is from the natural source material. Rather, I think it'd be more appropriate to consider it akin to evolution, where you have generations of entities stemming off of previously successful entities, etc...carrying along dna that holds the emotional resonance

>>714888234
>When looking for inspiration for a game
Sonic was based on the feeling of rushing the levels you already know like the back of your hand in a platformer. Are you going to claim that Sonic, from his inception, is some sort of parodic caricature of game design? Of course not. The issue isn't whether you derive something from "real life" but your ability to process and recontextualize your own experiences overall.
People who need to take specific inspiration from other games to represent something in a game format are displaying an inability to process. Using iconography, ideas, and feelings already established in other games is nothing wrong.

>>714881341 (OP)
I think it's your surroundings that's the problem, not the game. People have made gears of human warmth game and I think that's because we still had incandesant light bulbs or fluorescent ones still. It's the god damn lights.

>>714893978
In terms of evolution this is closer to inbreeding, where the same genetic stock keeps being reused for new offspring, and then reusing that offspring again instead of bringing in outside genes over generations, people abuse this by forcing selective breeding on animals and plants to achieve some desired exaggerated feature

Evolution usually has safeguards against this and boys and girls that grew up around each other often won't find each other sexually attractive when they're adults even if they're not related, the Westermarck effect

The equivalent of new genes in media is new creators who mainly reference from their real life source and personal experience despite having a wealth of media before them

I'm seeing some really comfy areas in my dreams. I wonder if I'll be able to translate them into low-poly pixel art (the only thing I know how to do).

>>714881341 (OP)
Lack of art direction, level design or conception in general.

>>714895623
>The equivalent of new genes in media is new creators who mainly reference from their real life source and personal experience despite having a wealth of media before them
New genes occur all the time. Creators like this have not existed since before recorded media of any kind. How are they equivalent?

>>714881341 (OP)
Because few indie games have genuine sincerity behind their design anymore due to the inherent nature of "you can turn your passion into a profitable empire" from growing envious of breakout stars of the past and wanting to emulate their exceptional successes.
It's why so many of these cunts also jump right on board for getting physical release and merchandising deals with companies like Fangamer or Serenity Forge, they WANT to sell their soul ASAP so they can pull out with a nice profit to set them for life in the best case scenario.

>>714896930
The point is that indie creators are overly dependent on the existing gene stock instead of inducing new takes from their own personal experience with real life

>>714881341 (OP)
Jumping around in the corn kidz parking lot is comfy, I think you just play shit games.

>>714899028
Introducing new takes from their own personal experience with games is fine too. Just so long as it's a new take, and not literally what they played, regurgitated.
So, like 95% of the indie games /v/ has ever willingly discussed.

>>714899028
But how do you distinguish between a take based on real-life experience and a take copied from somewhere else? For a recent example, one of the central themes of Deltarune is loss of control over your own body — (You), the player, are possessing the body of a separate individual who often resents the paths you lead him down and tries to work against you at times — and the biggest inspiration for this theme was Toby suffering a serious wrist issue which left him largely unable to engage in his two passions (playing piano and making vidya) to the extent he used to.
Thing is, none of that is directly stated anywhere in the game: sure, there's a scene where the character gets frustrated at (You) for being unable to play the piano while puppeting him, and there's lots of imagery in the game referring to severed hands...but unless you know about Toby's life story you're not going to pick up on the relevance of any of that, and you'd come away thinking the whole thing is purely a homage to OFF or Spec Ops or OneShot or whatever.

>>714881341 (OP)
I'm reading this book by Hayao Miyazaki (Ghibli) about animation, it's filled with essays from the 70s, 80s and 90s. Even back in the late 70s he was angry at the state of creativity... basically artists had already started regurgitating each other, and nobody was studying life anymore or reading history books.

He argued that specialization was destroying Animation. In the 80s an Animator would come up with a concept, storyboard it, design the characters, do the actual animation itself and sometimes even voice the characters... These works had the touch of a human spirit along the entire process giving a unified message.

But the modern (in the 90s) animator was a cog in a commodity machine. Some other specialist came up with the concept, another with the storyboard, another with the character designs. So he sits at his desk and just draws the frames he's told to draw, without any input or expression... and thus the art is soulless.

It's pretty wild to see all the same problems happening in the games industry which is mirroring the same rise and specialization that occurred in Animation.

>>714901958
that inevitably happens in every industry anon google alienation of labor

>>714881341 (OP)
Have you tried Yoku’s Island Express or is that too old? Also I don’t think Yellow Taxi was trying to be warm, it’s manic.

>>714902850
OP intentionally picked bad examples to try and force his point.

>>714881341 (OP)
too many comfy games nowadays go for that sunset color palette that makes everything kinda lack vibrancy and makes it look artificial

>>714902930
When there’s thousands of games, it’s easy to cherrypick.

>>714903030
comfy requires the existence of the uncomfy...

Stardew Valley starts off as an escape from corporate life in a cubicle. A green lush forest offers comfort when you just came out of a slog through a mud soaked monster pit. These modern comfy games are just like sugar candies.. too sweet, too much, no contrast. A work of art must be a balanced meal to be truly great.

>>714901958
This is why 3D movies are soulless as hell

>>714903030
>>714903987
True. The reason I like standing around in something like OOT/MM is specifically because the dungeons are there to contrast it out. You need intense moments so that the calm moments hit harder.

>>714904885
There is a whole chapter of the book of Miyazaki talking about run cycles. How the way a character runs can communicate so much. That animation has the special potential to make a run that is larger than life and exaggerated beyond reality. But that 99% of animation is just someone tracing a video of someone running or an old book on animation.

How does someone run in absolute terror, vs. running home with joy after getting a good grade in school. A child's run, carefree and stubby, vs., the way a warrior runs who has trained day in and day out to carry sword and shield. Even Hollywood can't get it right, there's no way the extras they hire have spent a lifetime hauling gear to actually express a run that tells their story as a solider.

This is how next level artists think, they go so deep and they want to create works that are firing on every cylinder... imagine a game dev applying this much care and thought to every facet of their game the way Miyazaki thinks about run cycles?

>>714881529
OP say indie games now are full 3D with graphics of Megaman Legends. The "lack of human warmth" is they make games of PS1 for modern PCs

>>714905454
>imagine a game dev applying this much care and thought to every facet of their game the way Miyazaki thinks about run cycles?
I don't have to imagine. Toby Fox took years to accept having a "team" of more than a couple artists he was friends with, even after making his big hit.
... but of course OP probably thinks Undertale and Deltarune are the epitome of what he's complaining about.

>>714906230
I hate modern "quirky" bullshit, yet somehow Undertale feels genuine. That's a great example of a work of art. The music and setting sync perfectly to take you to another world... even with the simple graphics. It's a reminder of what's possible with even the smallest resources if you're actually passionate.

>>714905519
Megaman Legends is soulful as hell though, indie games wish they could look this good

>>714884162
same, and it's very clear by the saturation and line stylization that it's not going for "comfy." op is retarded once again

>>714906694
It's because MML was made by artists who understand color theory and shape language and all the really hard stuff that goes into traditional art that modern 3d artists never learn because they're too busy spending 20000 hours how to mask cavity maps in zbrush and manage 10 million poly sculpts and plug nodes together in substance designer.

>>714881341 (OP)
what gaem is middle left?

>>714907285
In the 80s and 90s, it was possible for a group of a few dozen people to create something that reasonably reached the limits of the hardware they were on.
This stopped being the case.
Now the artist with art training can't afford to stop and learn how to apply their skills to 3D because there are already 3D guys who've been trained on standard 3D software busy setting up the 9 gorillion polygon, uncompressed 10gb texture asset they'll use to render the pimple on the protagonist's left cheek.
Relatedly, programmers and artists used to trade notes, now they don't have to.
The issue isn't "artists need more skill before they make games", that's retarded.

>>714906230
>>714906405
UT and DR are just Ready Player One for old Nintendo games, 00s indie games, and old cartoons, he may put a lot of care into them but they're derivative and referential as hell, definitely the type of media Miyazaki would condemn for not being human enough, an extreme example even

Some themes like the wrist thing are a real life touchpoint but basically everything else about them is a regurgitation of existing media and tropes, UT's main points especially make no sense as if you're never played JRPGs

>>714909382
Undertale is SOVL because it's obviously inspired by toby fox's actual personal experiences and came from a spontaneous idea of his ("what if NPCs had more complex feelings?"). Yes, it takes a lot, even copies from earthbound and other classic rpgs, but that inspiration is 100% from toby's own perspective. It's less or a direct regurgitation of earthbound the game and more of an expression of what HE personally felt when he played those games, and his memories about them.
Deltarune is SOVLESS because it's a direct regurgitation of both those classic rpgs and of undertale itself. This is mainly because undertale is 99,99% made by toby fox alone, deltarune is mainly made by a bigger team of autistic people who played undertale years ago but felt that there weren't enough tranny characters.

>>714910335
>because it's obviously inspired by toby fox's actual personal experiences
..with games, by his own admission, which is the type of regurgitation Miyazaki condemned

>>714909382
See, this is like I thought.
Undertale is a game about how you experience games.
It's hard to say what Deltarune is about yet, since we've only got half of it, but it seems to be in a similar topical space.
This is fundamentally incompatible with your theory, because you think games aren't "real" enough experiences in the first place.
>UT's main points especially make no sense as if you're never played JRPGs
Huh? I like JRPGs and Undertale's main points make perfect sense. You're not one of the idiots who thinks Undertale is about how characters have feelings too, are you?

>>714881529
>human warmth

>>714910925
>which is the type of regurgitation Miyazaki condemned
No. Regurgitating what you saw someone else do just to show what their work showed is what he condemned. No artist in their right mind would ever argue that you're not allowed to make your own work meant to evoke the emotional state another work evoked in you.

Because the lighting is based on UE5's LED-based path tracing.

>>714881529
>indie game... BAD!
>indie dev... SOIMALE!
There, I summed up OP's talking points for you.

>>714911829
so trve brahmin if only they used spectral path tracing

>>714910335
>Deltarune is SOVLESS because it's a direct regurgitation of both those classic rpgs and of undertale itself. This is mainly because undertale is 99,99% made by toby fox alone, deltarune is mainly made by a bigger team of autistic people who played undertale years ago but felt that there weren't enough tranny characters.
The fuck are you talking about? Toby is the only one who works on writing for Deltarune, and it shows obvious improvement over Undertale. Undertale worked well within the boundaries of its story, but in many ways it was falling apart if you scrutinize it too much.

>>714910925
>with games
Except he is not merely stealing ideas from those games, he describes his own experience with them, playing them as a child, researching and dismantling them to find out every little secret. Consider the Eizouken manga - is it "regurgitation" because it deals with anime as its subject matter?

>>714911810
That's pretty much what Miyazaki was saying though

>>714910925
>some insect gook said that you can't make cartoons inspired by other cartoons (which is what he himself did btw) therefore you must pull everything out of your own ass and not be inspired by anything ever
>>714912095
>undertale has MUH PLOT HOLES therefore bad
I know the plot might look like an important part of undertale, but again plotfags only see things on the shallowest surface level. Undertale was a 100% original and personal product (inspiration isn't unoriginality), deltarune is like a fangame to undertale. Not a bad game btw, but undertale felt like something completely unheard of when it first came out.

>>714912095
>Except he is not merely stealing ideas from those games, he describes his own experience with them, playing them as a child, researching and dismantling them to find out every little secret.
No one said it's about stealing, but about creators basing their media on consuming other media rather than their real life experiences and observations, and Toby's games are almost entirely based on the media he consumed

>Consider the Eizouken manga - is it "regurgitation" because it deals with anime as its subject matter?
Eizouken doesn't deal with anime, it deals with the industry and craft of animation, it's not inspired by Shirobako or Bakuman but the real life industry itself

>>714912143
The end point of what you're claiming he believes is that an artist should avoid knowing of any other art in the first place. You can't avoid your mindset being colored by the art you see, especially if it's good art. Thus, if art "untainted" by your feelings on other art is superior, you should cut it off at the source.
This is ludicrous, so I choose to believe your argument is a misinterpretation of his beliefs.

>>714912649
Undertale was like a fangame to Moon and Earthbound

>>714912851
Playing a videogame is a real life experience you retard, as is watching a movie for example.

>>714912649
Deltarune is the game Toby was trying to make when he made Undertale. And so far, I believe it. The emotional core behind it feels very "raw" compared to Undertale's.

>>714912879
That's the extreme end point, yes, I'm just clarifying what he said

I'm personally fine with up to 3-4 levels of derivation on this chart >>714888234 but any lower than that and things start feeling schizophrenic and robotic fast

>>714912940
>sonic is a fangame to mario because they're both platformers and the creator of sonic played mario before creating sonic

>>714912649
I'm not saying Undertale is bad, I'm just saying that Deltarune is on completely different level. Undertale is Hobbit, Deltarune is Lord of the Rings, if you will.

>>714912851
>Eizouken doesn't deal with anime, it deals with the industry and craft of animation
Exactly, and when Deltarune deals with video games, it does not merely "regurgitates" the ideas from that games. There's an entire segment where characters are playing an in-universe video game, and it is literally in the background while the scene focuses entirely on characters interacting with each other during the gameplay.

>>714913016
Yes, an experience of consuming media, the thing Miyazaki condemned as choice of inspiration for creators

>>714881341 (OP)
>They almost always have a distinct lack of human warmth
More like you've been conditioned as a corporate slurper your whole life and the idea of a game not originating from a Real Established Studio makes you uneasy.

>>714912851
>Toby's games are almost entirely based on the feelings he got out of the media he consumed
Fixed that for you.
There's a difference between devs blindly applying iconography they feel the warm fuzzies over and UT/DR. Toby has a grasp on how games feel the way they feel to him and is trying to communicate it.

>>714913372
Anon I can see you're desperate to defend these games for some reason, but yes that is the thing Miyazaki condemned, these games are reactions to other media and not reactions to non-media real life

>>714913181
Did Sega start by making a literal Mario fangame?

The "good enough to ship" bar is somewhere around pic related. Even if the talent and time is there it's still aimed low.

>>714913239
1. I'm completely ignoring what miyazaki said since I literally don't care what he said, I don't even know which animefag he is, is he the studio ghibli one?
2. Game "A" inspired by Game "B" is different from Game "A" inspired by playing Game "B". Undertale is inspired by toby playing earthbound and other classic rpgs. Deltarune is inspired by undertale (which is an uncomfortable example anyway since deltarune is a sequel, let's say Yokai Watch is inspired by pokemon)

>>714881341 (OP)
whats middle right?

>>714884248
Pokemon was made from a guy that collected bugs as a child. Pokemon clones are inspired by Pokemon games.

>>714888234
>mother doesn't have a line going to pokemon
That was the easiest one of them all too

>>714913715
Deltarune is even more inspired by Toby's personal life. The world of Undertale was mostly fantastic and the game was built around subverting or reimagining common JRPG tropes and assumptions. Deltarune has a more mundane and grounded setting, and deals with real-life issues, some of them Toby obviously experienced himself.

>>714913186
>Exactly, and when Deltarune deals with video games, it does not merely "regurgitates" the ideas from that games.
It kinda does, the reasons for most of the creative decisions in the game are "because Cave Story/OFF/Earthbound/etc did it that way", there's almost nothing in the games that is relatable to people that never played games, the locations are bizarre and alien, the character are caricatures completely unlike any real life people, the events follow video game logic etc

>There's an entire segment where characters are playing an in-universe video game, and it is literally in the background while the scene focuses entirely on characters interacting with each other during the gameplay.
This further proves my point

>>714913715
>Game "A" inspired by Game "B" is different from Game "A" inspired by playing Game "B"

>>714914107
>there's almost nothing in the games that is relatable to people that never played games
Uh-huh, sure.

test

>>714881341 (OP)
Because old beloved games were made with the love and passion of several talented individuals, new indie slop is made by people who looked at old games and thought "if it looks le old, that will make it look good and soulful!" without much further thought. Back then, devs were pushing boundaries or doing the most with what little they had. Indie devs purposefully kneecap the aesthetic rather than just try to make something unique to themselves.

>>714881341 (OP)
>volumetric fog
>volumetric fog, now with cell shading
>volumetric fog
>volumetric fog
>brown retard
>green hill knockoff

>>714914090
The setting being realistic or fantastic is literally a non-factor, literally how is that even a relevant point
Then games with big fantasy elements are completely out of the discussion because they're not grounded in reality

>>714913162
I think that the things you're seeing as only one or two layers derived are actually derived by several dozen, so trying to draw a line by "number of layers" is silly. We can't see all the layers. Peter Pan, the animated movie, based directly on playing pretend? It had cultural context, it didn't pop out of thin air. Hell, it was an updated adaptation of an older story, which itself had its OWN cultural context.

>>714883652
>a straight line...but le pretty!
Anyone got that nuTomb Raider webm where she's climbing through a shipwreck in a storm or whatever juxtaposed with the basic gameplay representation?

because they're just derivative of older games basically

indie games used to be fresh but now they're the least creative class of games. They chase trends.

>>714914472
Okay but what about linear fog

>>714914525
That's not the movie

>>714913503
Then I think Miyazaki has been a lucky idiot the entire time, probably (like you) making exceptions for random things you think that don't "feel like" they're inspired by other art. Your brain isn't a perfectly insulated system.

>>714914561
The straight line being le pretty is 50% of what makes the game good. The other 50% is the raw gameplay which is what that webm highlights.

>>714881341 (OP)
I know right fellow /v/ro, they lack the essence of primordial creation and the spiritual manifestation of human will by virtue of their golem design and inauthentic authenticity. Sometimes I find it a curse to be so smart that I notice these things, that most indie games are a clear continuation of Kant's paper man, but I guess that's why I don't play indie games.

>>714914107
>the reasons for most of the creative decisions in the game are "because Cave Story/OFF/Earthbound/etc did it that way"
Source: your ass
>there's almost nothing in the games that is relatable to people that never played games
And that's a good thing, given it's about the experience of playing games.

>>714915009
>given it's about the experience of playing games.
I.e. derivative and incestuous

>>714914502
>>714914107
Video games are not a central theme in Deltarune, the only "videogamey" concept it explores is the relationship between the player and protagonist, and even then I've seen similar stories in non-interactive media, except with author and his characters instead. The main character stopped playing video games many years ago, and fantastic worlds he visits are based on the games of make-believe he had with his friends during childhood, not on video games.

>>714915089
Explain how.

>"why aren't games based on personal experiences anymore"
>new game is about the past personal experience of playing an older videogame
>"NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU THAT DOESN'T COUNT"

>>714914747
You're making an exception right now and projecting it on Miyazaki

I've started with game development this year and certainly fall into the "copy of a copy" territory. Even when I try to avoid it, I simply lack the skill to capture any real experience, even if it's just something simple like how a buidling looks.
It takes a few years to build up the drawing/modelling/composing skills, but if you get them as a hobby on top of your job, you don't build any real experiences because you're glued to a screen 16 hours a day.

>>714914502
>Then games with big fantasy elements are completely out of the discussion because they're not grounded in reality
Not really. Even if you create something fantastical, you can look at the next best thing in our world to draw inspiration. E.g. you look up the relatiosn between roman empire and the germanic tribe for how to portray the relationship between humans and elves in your game. You take historical swords as the basis for your 3D models, or take rare natural phenomena like the Giant's Causeway and make it a common feature for a level.

>>714915303
That's literally entire problem, too many indie games are based on games rather than the creators' lives (likely because they didn't have lives outside media)

>>714915462
>you have to be a fucking retard poorfag kid playing with sticks in a swamp to make a good game
Got it.

>>714881341 (OP)
Difference between devs raised on video games and other slop and devs raised in the real world when the world was sane.

>>714915582
That certainly seems to be the case

>>714881341 (OP)
>colors kinda washed out
>extreme bloom
>anti soul fog
>extreme anti soul fog
>Unreal assets flip, N
>is fine

>>714911627
Is that a butt?

>>714915724
You have to grow up a retarded illiterate kid playing with sticks in the swamp to write a good book, or animate, or draw, too I guess.

Most of the time it's the bad lighting and processing effects, usually whatever the engine defaults to because nobody can program anymore

Biggest, fattest, shittiest, tranniest, most SOVL-sucking, ESSENCE-destroying, HEART-crushing element of nu-indie games: muh breakcore/dnb/jungle soundtrack that doesn't sound like a soundtrack but like some tranny's soundcloud songs slapped on top of unfitting gameplay

>>714915935
anything is better than being an internet kid.

>>714916025
I don't know, I want my stories to be written by literate people who've read enough to know what they find satisfying in a story. In fact, I feel like this about most mediums. The odds of a true know-nothing producing something even remotely good are near zero. And for gaming, we already have it, it's Rain World, so that's the quota for this century, at minimum.

>>714916248
I think getting over that immense, seething self-hatred will let you enjoy a lot more games, anon.

>>714888234
time to make my magnum opus
>inspirations
>renaissance paintings
>terminator 1
>most extreme elimination challenge
>devil may cry 3

>>714916350
I don't need to lie to myself.

>>714881341 (OP)
middle row, the one on the right. What game?

>>714881341 (OP)
You're so used to manufactured and sanitized soul that you lack the ability to appreciate genuine human warmth.

>>714889140
"Marketed as" and what it actually ended up being are two different things.

>>714916485
never mind, it's Europa. Apparently kinda short and kinda shitty, bummer.

>>714916213
Where are you finding these breakcore jungle games I'm craving them

bottom right has a blacky which is inherently soulless

>>714916575
That image is a year old

>>714881341 (OP)
Unironically the forced soul meme is a real thing. Indies look at beloved classics, at games they played that give them warmth and comfort, at soul if you will, and ape the superficial elements without understanding what made those games work. They look at PS1 games and think ok, PS1 soul = shitty graphics and wobbly textures and don't get that at the time the devs were trying to make the best looking games they could and that some of the quirks and "sovlful" elements were the devs trying to get around the limitations in creative ways.

You could recreate that aspect, but you need to give yourself the same kind of limitations the devs at the time had to deal with so no UE5 with a PSX shader.

Minimalist copycats that are derivative.

I've noticed my tolerance and patience for derivative games PLUMMETED as I got older, as a kid and teen anything was fair game because it was all new to me, but when I started observing time pass on a larger scale I lost interest in most things that don't feel relatable to real life or genuine things somehow

comfy is for women. True men crave the adventure feel.

>>714911829
>cold light
bro just say "alexa, lights soft white" lmao

>>714881341 (OP)
they become chore simulators
and don't have the ability to apply tone to their content
its probably more of an engine issue if anything

>>714888853
I mean... You're saying the fantasy first person rpg that sold so much and become so influential in the industry didn't inspire in *any* way that other more recent fantasy first person rpg?

>>714881341 (OP)
modern engines cannot do open green fields for some reason. I hate it every time I see it and there's been a lot of it for like 10 years now.

>>714916494
I don't play modern AAA at all

>>714915179
All of chapter 3 is based on TV Dinnah's segment from Little King's Story, the Queen fight is based on Power Rangers, Spamton's way of talking is based on a Jimmy Neutron character, it's an extremely referential game

>>714916494
The genuine human warmth in question
>wot if I remade a game I liked when I was 7 but made it a roguelike

>>714915462
Devs were always copycats, even the ones you least expected them to be. And it doesn't matter if the end product is good.

>>714907628
DoubleShake

>>714881341 (OP)
It's literally just the resolution. Put this shit in 480p or 240p and you all would cum.

>>714907206
It visually references 3D Sonic games and Mario Sunshine, games many people consider comfy childhood games

>>714920037
>you would all
Who are you talking to, champ?

>>714881341 (OP)
i like this game called metro gravity

>>714917163
>and don't have the ability to apply tone to their content
this is the best post in thread, you hit the nail on the head. It's not precisely that they're just copycats, plenty of copycats have made good games, but they're copycats that can't modulate the tone of their game. Ties into the flanderization already mentioned.

>>714920140
Learn how to quote.

>>714920227
Extremely soulless and cold regurgitation of Pseudoregalia which was already wildly derivative on its own

>>714895162
>The issue isn't whether you derive something from "real life" but your ability to process and recontextualize your own experiences overall.
Huh. This might be the most concise way to explain "soul vs. soulless", honestly.

>>714920537
i don't remember asking

>>714881341 (OP)
What is he upper-left game?

>>714920275
I asked you a direct question, vagueposting nigger.

>>714921016
Nevermind I found it.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158160/Coral_Island/

>>714905454
>There is a whole chapter of the book of Miyazaki talking about run cycles. How the way a character runs can communicate so much. That animation has the special potential to make a run that is larger than life and exaggerated beyond reality.
Richard Williams said the same in the Animator's Survival Kit, as did James Baxter. Apparently this is a pretty common theme among veteran animators (makes sense, given that they spent their lives working on telling stories through animation).

>>714895162
>>714920743
You guys should really read Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud. He goes over a lot of this shit (obviously in reference to comics, but the principles still apply).

>>714920261
And yet even they have infinitely more soul than whatever indieslop came today. It's that extra touch of having an actual human experience rather than the soulless automatons that we call indie devs these days.

>>714923602
I'm taking your advice. This is a pleasing level of autism so far. I think I've seen a few pages of it posted around.

>>714881341 (OP)
I think most of you have rose tinted glasses about games from 30 odd years ago. So you'll make up some shit excuses about how it was harder to make the game back then or something, without it ever dawning up you that there's almost no discernible difference with older games and indies now. It's hard for you to except low poly and pixel shit really are the bottom of the barrel for aesthetics therefore you're looking for any excuse that you can to say that old garbage on the PS1 had some hidden ingredient that made it 'soulful'. Yet it doesn't exist.

>>714924790
>there's almost no discernible difference with older games and indies now.
Cool can you post some indie games that look like this

>>714923602
I often think about this particular page when I consider modern vidya, especially the indie scene.

Damn Toby Fox worshippers are annoyingly obtuse lmao

>>714888234
You are legit autistic. Shit like Nine Sols and Hollow Knight have actual artists that derive from real life and not Metroid or Cave Story.

>>714925785
How many horrific indies are you people playing? Is this really the majority of the scene? My experience with them isn't nearly so bad.

>>714926059
Nah their aesthetics and gameplay are derivative as hell

>>714926546
If anything Hollow Knight derives more fron Faxanadu and Zelda 2 which are both OLDER than Super Metroid.

And the aesthetic is clearly born from shit like Angel's Egg. Again. Older than Metroid.

>>714925125
Old JRPG garbage? i don't know. Crosscode? Probably most garbage RPG maker games. Are you asking for a non static pixel shit background? i don't follow.

>>714926281
Shit like Nine Sols

>>714926761
But anon, they're indie, indie means they have to be a shallow ugly clone of a retro game with a story about depression.

>>714926778
>he thinks this looks anywhere near this >>714925125
Oh you are just legit blind

>>714883652
Someone who spends 10 years on their darling indie project ain't going outside

>>714927014
They both look crap.

>>714926761
You didn't change the amount of derivative layers, just the target source material, the games look like some chibi tumblr garbage

>>714927167
Because "amount of derivative layers" is complete fucking nonsense, if you make media and it doesn't derive from any of the media you've ever consumed in your life you have a mental disorder.
>but if I just don't reference anything
You're still being derivative.
>but not like that indieshit
Exactly like it.

>>714925125
Still waiting for the reply to this, I'm curious as well

>>714927142
Not that you would know, being blind and all

>>714927167
>You didn't change the amount of derivative layers
Amount of derivative layers is complete gobbledygook if I can point to older works a game potentially derives from.

It's a shifting goalpost for you to shitpost with. In your eyes the only indie that actually matfer is complete esoteric garbage that resumably derives from nothing.

>>714927425
>>714927557
Nah that's cope by creatively bankrupt hack frauds, some influence is obviously going to exist but going "my game is going to be like game x with stuff from movie y" is an insanely derivative of making games

>>714927646
>going "my game is going to be like game x with stuff from movie y" is an insanely derivative of making games
And the games you're complaining about aren't even remotely like that you fucking sperg, you're falling for a stereotype perpetuated by the target audience for the average AAA release.

>>714927941
Indie games are overwhelmingly like that, including Hollow Knight and Nine Sols

>>714928000
You're going to be a big fan of whatever bullshit slop Activision is going to put out next.

>>714881341 (OP)
NitW is comfy as fuck.

>>714928204
I haven't played AAAslop in 15 years

>>714928276
>clean vector autumn pastel tumblr furfag artstyle
>comfy

>>714881341 (OP)
>Farming simulator #23421
>Witch of the Wild
>DS-looking platformer
>Ghibli of the Wild
>Nigger of the Wild
>DS-looking car game.

>it's an artsperg purity spiral episode

lmao

>>714928409
Yes

>>714881341 (OP)
These are all lifeless. They're not trying at all to evoke a sense of place that a person could actually occupy, they're solely there for the sake of mechanics. You could make the background a black void and hardly anything about the presentation would change.

>>714881341 (OP)
They don't have as many hands polishing them.

To be comfy you need good audio for example which indies probably never have. Good UX too.

Most indies use engines they didn't build too so they tend to feel generic because of that.

>>714917451
what do you mean? botw and genshin are like the gold standards for open green fields

>>714929692
They both look plastic and washed out

When I see them I don't get the feel there are bugs running around on the dirt below the grass, I don't get the feel there's dirt at all, or that the grass is wet in the morning from the dew, or sharp and dry in the sun, or that it has a scent, they just feel fake

>>714929980
what old engines did it well though?

>>714881341 (OP)
In indie games everything is molded to fit the mechanics no matter how incoherent it makes everything feel. In Crazy Taxi, the game is based on California which ends up directing the level design which ends up influencing the mechanics (lots of steep roads that make your car fly for example). In that bottom right example it's just a mishmash of random shit that they probably thought would be cool to do stunts on or whatever.

>>714928409
I can see the argument for it. The artstyle kind of draws from elementary school children's picture books, which gives it this veneer of innocence that slowly gets stripped away as the game goes on. I don't know if the devs were thinking that hard about it, but it does work.

>>714930452
This argument is utterly incoherent, is the original Green Hill Zone bad because there isn't a natural loop de loop you can run through in the real world?

>>714906230
Undertale is dog shit

>>714933905
Do you actually have an argument as to why it shouldn't count as an indie game made with care or do you just hate Undertale because people constantly gush about it and you hate popular things?

>>714930316
Engines were an entirely different beast back in the day. Everyone had their own "engine" which they built upon. They basically just made their first game, and then copied the source code for that in to their next game while expanding it in assembly or C

>>714934098
No
Toby fox is a faggot and so are you

>>714934684
>do you actually have an argument?
>no
Stellar work anon

>>714881341 (OP)
Yea I understand you OP.

>>714935057
Cry more Undertranny