Are these the worst 3D Zelda games /v/?

OOT and MM are vastly superior to every other Zelda game so much so that they might as well be considered a different franchise.

>>714893115 (OP)
TOTK makes me wish we got a TP sequel instead.

>>714893115 (OP)
>>714893254
lol no

I'm curious when people say BotW is a better game than TotK, because say I weigh starting a new game on both and what each brings:

BotW:

Better "story"
Better UI (though still a tad clunky)
Better use of Sage Abilities
Worse lead ups to Dungeons and Dungeons in general
Wose Bosses
Worse finale
Worse Music
Worse combat (mainly there being virtually no use for Monster partd)
Worse Sidequest (both kind of suck but they were worse here)

TotK:

Better Bosses
Better "dungeons" and lead ups (the former of which is still lacking)
Better combat encounters (Gleeoks, toads, there being actual uses for msterials)
Better finale
Better music
Better sidequest
Worse UI
Worse Story
Worse Sage Abilities

I don't know if I'd count shrines as a positive for either since they both were quality over quantity. So why would I play BotW again, when there are far less poditive things that contribute a passable Zelda experience. So please any Botwfag fill me in.

>>714895409
Quantity over quality*

Windwaker and tears

>>714895187
REMINDER

>>714895187
Explain why I like OOT and MM but find other zelda games boring or cringe or too anime

>>714895409
The addition of caves on its own put ToTK above botw for me. It makes the overworld so much more dense and interesting.

>>714895409
I haven't replayed BotW since finishing TotK. On the surface I can't see a reason to go back, but when I get a switch 2 I'm going to play both of them back to back to see what its like. One thing in BotW's favor is that it has master mode. I'm still mad we never got Gold tier horns for fusing in TotK

>>714893115 (OP)
Those aren't Wind Waker and Twilight Princess though

>>714897454
While the cave content could have been better, I personally believe (in this case) something is better than well...nothing because it at least allows for some variety. Again, I'm coming from the standpoint of only replaying one so getting Barbarian armor or w/e won't necessarily cause me to eye roll because I won't have replayed Botw.again prior.

>>714897347
>Explain why I like OOT and MM but find other zelda games boring or cringe or too anime
You're a millennial.

>>714893115 (OP)
No. Twilight Princess is THE worst Zelda game, period.

>>714898465
you say this in every zelda thread. Its never going to catch on

>>714893115 (OP)
Yes. Skyward Sword gets extra negative points for making me buy a Wii motion plus.

I haven't played TP or SS, so from the ones I played I will say WW

>>714895409
I prefer BotW over TotK because it had better exploration. In comparison, TotK seemed lackluster. It wasn't enjoyable to traverse the same map all over again with minor changes. It also didn't help how TotK outright ignored most of BotW's story because devs were afraid it'd alienate players. Such a dumb decision.

>>714895187
>>714897347
The combat used to be simple, because you were turning your brain off for a small challenge as a respite from navigating a complex and interdependent 3D space.
NuZelda not only has even more braindead combat, but spaces are not any more complex than early 3D games and puzzles are usually restricted to single rooms, rather than a system of changes across a larger space.
This is because they not only can't design complex spaces anymore, but they also need to cater to people with sub-80 IQ who can't imagine a conditional hypothetical.
>I can't pass because the rooms are in this configuration
>Yes, but what if they were in a different configuration?
>But they aren't
And so on.
>>714898465
Every issue in TP is just worse in SS. SS doesn't even know the most basic principles of design and will unironically force you to sit through the dialogue scrolling of unvoiced characters.
>>714898695
>Forces the Wii motion +
>Is one of the worst games at actually making use of motion controls in an interesting way
>Doesn't take advantage of the IR pointer at all
>Instead of using motion controls for anything interesting during flight you use it for fucking wing flapping and diving

>>714900618
>Every issue in TP is just worse in SS
Not true at all.
SS is a massive, massive upgrade from TP in every conceivable manner.

It has stellar OST, some of the best dungeons in the franchise, GREAT characters and story, and generally wholesome vibes.

Even the worst Zelda game is an absolutely fantastic game. Fight me.

>>714901007
>SS is a massive, massive upgrade from TP in every conceivable manner
absolutely delusional

>>714901159
I agree with you

>>714893115 (OP)
Wind Waker is by far the worst 3d Zelda

>>714901007
Those are all the high points of Twilight Princess. Skyward Sword's story raped everything interesting that remained part of the overall mythos of the franchise. The only characters that are even actual characters are Zelda and Groose. It's the first time they started to poke fun at the idea of Link having a love interest other than Zelda, rather than simply offering a lot of girls they made it exactly one candidate, and the joke is she doesn't look as conventionally pretty as Zelda.

>>714901256
Kill yourself.

>>714901534
No. Why would I do that?

>>714901007
>SS has stellar dungeons and great characters
As does TP, easily putting it over other games in the series

>>714895409
If you try to compare them objectively and ignore the release timeline I'd say TotK is better than BotW though both suffer from quantity over quality overall. Thing is BotW released first and for me it felt like a techdemo that is OK if you see it as this but with a lot of room for improvement. At least I gave it back in the day the benefits of doubt that its successor will turn into a great game. However TotK then reused BotW base, filled the world with somewhat the same and a few extras while barely addressed the issues I had with BotW like the weapon durability or lack of proper temples. Sure building is fun but if anons shitpost it's a glorfied DLC they aren't exactly wrong.

Why would I ever replay any 3D Zelda instead of Dragon's Dogma or Bloodborne?

>>714895409
>botw
>worse music
they are the basically the same
>worse combat
I think TotK is worse because you have to keep fusing for arrows and I generally hate fusing. All the weapons are weaker by default now unless you fuse, which takes time and looks gay. I guess TotK gives you more options but you don't need them. If anything zonai devices are too overpowered. Honestly both suck because of bullet time garbage and instant healing.

The rest I agree with. But there is context missing here. Even if we ignore the fact that TotK reuses the same map, assets, and gameplay loop (i.e. shrines, towers, koroks). Even if we ignore the expectations set for an asset flip sequel that took them 5 years to make. TotK still completely fucks up the point BotW made about exploring the terrain and struggles of getting from A to B. Because now you can fly. And I think that seriously ruins the game.

If TotK only took place in the sky, that might have been cool. But instead they said NAH, we're gonna make the sky practically empty and bring back the old map. And also we're gonna include an underground (also empty btw). And all the towers will shoot you thousands of feet in the air. And you can use hoverbikes whenever you want. The challenge is fucking gone and so are the enchanting wilderness vibes. The game becomes a joke and tone deaf.

>>714901332
>Those are all the high points of Twilight Princess.
Like hell they are.
TP has THE worst, most forgettable dungeons, tons of overlapping, very single-use types of weapons, absolutely barren Hyrule fields, terrible pacing especially at the beginning, the Wolf mode becomes absolutely obsolete towards the end, and all the "cool characters" are thrown under the bus or not even developed one bit during the gameplay.

Not only that, but TP also suffers of the early 7th gen's bloom + blur cancer.

>>714901951
Just admit that you only fap to the Midna porn.

People like Skyward Sword now?

>>714902591
It's been so long now that a generation grew up on it.

>>714902396
Dragons dogma is an incoherent meme of a game that v tricks you into thinking is good like nier automata. Why play blood borne when the souls games peaked at one?

>>714895409
>Worse Music
>botw
I'm surprised you think that considering most memorable tracks from TotK (that are new) are basically remixes of BotW music.

>>714902787
>incoherent
Incoherent? Like you couldn't understand the class system or controls? Bloodborne is peak gameplay and storytelling, Dark Souls was peak multiplayer, but that's dead now so fuck replaying it.
>inb4 you were talking about Demon's Souls
It was fun, but I can barely remember it at this point. The remake being an abortion makes me never want to revisit it.

>>714903201
I clearly said dragons dogma was incoherent and I meant the story, it makes no sense that the king locks your character up for being in the room with his whore but you can just walk up to him like nothing after escaping.

>anons ITT discussing BotW/TotK's soundtracks
I legitimately don't remember a single track from either game other than the ones I hated, I.E. the Shrine and Guardian themes. I remember liking the final battle themes but they never get the chance to shine because the fights are so embarrassingly short/easy.
It's all just background noise, much like the NPCs/Dialogue/Story and the combat really. Not sure what was supposed to be the selling point of these games. The IP, I guess.

>>714902517
>TP has THE worst, most forgettable dungeons
TP's dungeons are second only to OOT/MM's. The worst is either WW or BOTW.
>absolutely barren Hyrule fields
Skyward Sword has a total of two locations in its entire overworld, and then a handful of portals to self-contained "mini overworlds". I'll take TP's Hyrule Field over that any day of the week.
>terrible pacing especially at the beginning
Pot, meet kettle. TP fans all acknowledge it and curse Miyamoto for tripling the length of the intro arbitrarily every time they replay it. Does SS have such a single clean reason for being a poorly paced mess? I don't think so.
>the Wolf mode becomes absolutely obsolete towards the end
Agreed. I'm not arguing TP is the best here, just that SS is bad.

>>714903526
Tears' Lightning Temple and the way it progresses with more parts of the melody as you progress in the dungeon only to conclude and go quiet before the boss fight was a highlight of that game for me (and this actually happens in all dungeons).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taydEbTLZ9E
I would argue that the point of a game soundtrack is to set the mood rather than be some kind of independent listening and in that regard these games excel, Tears moreso with a lot of events dynamically queuing changes in the BGM. If the LoZ theme blasted for 40 to 100 hours you spend zooming around that'd be fucking stupid.

>>714902591
It was always good.
My first Zelda was the NES game.

>>714903950
Literally everything you said is wrong.

Skyward Sword will forever be the worst Zelda game. I will die on that hill. Fuck revisionists.

>>714904350
>it's all wrong, no I won't actually read any of it
luh mao

>>714904561
BotW managed to be worse.
... I can't really tell why, but I feel slightly less so about TOTK. I might replay it over SS? Maybe. But neither is likely.

>>714902295
Fair enough, and it's not exactly like I didn't enjoy BotW. I'm just a bit surprised these days to see some people treat TotK as an abomination that killed their child while BotW is their favorite game ever.

>>714904561
TP is worse.
LTTP is worse.
CDi game is worse.
The game.

>>714902591
>>714902751
That's your "Zelda Cycle". People generally don't change their tune, they eventually just move on and people that grew up with the new entry come out and gush over it years later.

>>714904876
NTA, but there's a metric boatloads of nuance and design differences between BotW and TotK.
Latter really isn't as captivating and fun as BotW. Yeah, it brought in some neat little additions and minor QOL improvements, but it also went batshit insane with what might just as well be Roblox-tier nonsense.

>>714905116
>SSfaggot also hates ALTTP
Terminal shit taste.

>>714903420
It's apparent that the Duke doesn't give a fuck about the Arisen being there and only imprisons him/her due to Aelinore calling for it. Hence, when (You) inevitably escape he doesn't really care.
It's also implied by the scene that the King is suffering madness/dementia and is even potentially drunk. Meaning he likely doesn't even remember the previous night, or even recognized the intruder as the Arisen.
Next.

>>714902517
>TP has THE worst, most forgettable dungeons,
Arbiters grounds and snow peak are iconic. Temple of time is hands down, objectively the best looking in the series
>tons of overlapping,
Overlapping what?
>very single-use types of weapons,
Ball and chain. Hidden skills. Twin clawshots
>absolutely barren Hyrule fields
Just like majora, tears, botw, and ESPECIALLY ocarina. Because they’re fields
>you only fap to midna
I don’t, because illia is best girl.

>>714893115 (OP)
Yes

>>714893115 (OP)
I didn't like SS very much when it was new. But all these years later I loved it. Probably because I played both botw and totk in between

>>714905231
That's true, and I honestly feel that was almost entirely due to the social media physics wackiness that BotW brought. Aonuma and Fujibayashi probably thought that people would love to interact with a more complex system due to everything they saw. They, unfortunately, just put too much effort into refining it at the expense of many other aspects of the game which clearly didn't go over well with many people.

>>714893254
True

>>714905358
>Headcannon
Thought so, next.

>>714893115 (OP)
>/v/ eternally seething

Love to see it.

Even the worst Zelda game, Skyward Sword, is still better than 99% of all other games ever made.

>>714893115 (OP)
No, SS and WW are legitimately awful games. WW wastes your time constantly and has the most baby tier puzzles out of any Zelda game. It also insists on giving you the answers to the puzzles.

SS is just awful in every aspect.

>>714905874
>Skyward Sword in CDi tier
>LA Switch in a different tier from LADX despite it being the same fucking game
Batshit insane

>>714905874
I'd easily rank TP above Majora's Mask 3D and both Hyrule Warriors. Same for LBW, Ages/Seasons and BotW

>>714906102
OP here, I'm asking because generally it seems that before TotK...SS was clearly the most disliked 3D Zelda game. Now with TotK (outside of the reviews), among the actual fans it seems extremely divisive. See >>714905714

>>714906219
>SS and WW are legitimately awful games
They are not. They were the best Zelda games of the 6th generation, and by that definition some of the best games of the decade.

>>714906087
What happens in the scene?

>>714906442
TP > WW >>> SS
SS was so bad in its day it was barely thought of as a Zelda game. Nobody could tell how they'd fumbled it this badly.

TotK had some of the best exploration in the series.
It has some flaws, but most of my problems with it have to do with the story.
The game itself is amazing.

>>714906838
What exploration
>flies over the setpiece on two fans

>>714906442
Windwaker does everything worse then twilight princess. The dominion rod is a direct improvement on the command melody, and the finishing blow fixes the waiting you HAVE to do when you knock enemies on their ass. That’s not even getting into the triforce quest and the KoRL railroading you to the forbidden forest and dragon roost

if botw looked like mm you fags would call it the best zelda ever

>>714893115 (OP)
no, Skyward Sword is good

>>714893115 (OP)
Nah, Majora's Mask and BOTW are way worse.

>>714906909
Absolutely not. My objections are with the gameplay. I like the feeling of getting entirely new tools and using them to access entirely new areas.

>>714906894
The 2 fan hovercraft is a flaw with the game, sure.
But on foot exploration was like nothing else I've played.
Particularly exploring the cave systems. Not the depths, but the caves across the overworld.
Some of the best adventuring in a vidya.

>>714906440
>TotK among the actual fans it seems extremely divisive

So was Majoras Mask
So was Wind Waker
So was Twilight Princess
So was Skyward Sword
So was Breath Of The Wild
So was Echoes Of Ages

>>714897113
HAHHHAHAHAHA

>>714907758
EoW seems mostly ignored these days.

>>714901159
I would gladly fight you

>>714893115 (OP)
Honestly yeah, Skyward Sword has fun gameplay (If you play on a wii) but the formula in that game was so bad it convinced people that it was dated and needed to go away, totk is just not good, specially as a sequel, even if it was a standalone game the story is just unprecedently bad, it makes you wonder what those 6 years of development went into.

>>714893927
My headcanon was that it was tp's Ganondorf who had not actually died and was instead unwillingly kept alive, frozen in place to keep him from being reborn again for so long they forgot about his existence entirely, imagine my disappointment when the answer was way simpler than that.

>>714909379
>it makes you wonder what those 6 years of development went into.
We know it was making ultrahand work without Switch exploding into spaghetti