Being a schizo makes it kind of hard to explain myself, but I hope this makes sense, and that /v/ can clearly see why it's been ruined by nu-slop-Zelda.

>>715063067 (OP)
I like the formula best in BotW/TotK

It's kind of a shit analysis.

The key difference is that in the old games you found new items that changed how you approached the dungeons and overworld, and in the nu-slop you get the same copy-pasted mini-dungeons and nothing of value to find past the tutorial island. It kills the sense of wonder.

>>715063198
>I like the ubislop formula

>>715063067 (OP)
spot on. Open world freedom kills pacing and it's the bane of story telling.

>>715063230
Yeah. I forgot to include that somehow, but I still think focusing on the "structure" explains it too. The old and slightly more linear structure was better in that it allowed it to ebb and flow, and balance story and gameplay with each other in a series of escalations and deescalations, or "Linear parts" vs "Open Ended parts".

Now that everything is open ended from the moment "GO!" and until the final boss, all you end up with at the end is a cutscene that has to account for the player potentially having done very little, and all you get in both BotW and TotK is a scene after the final showdown of Zelda saying "Hi LINK!" and smiles at the camera over an un-earned playback of the "Main Zelda Theme".

It feels forced in a way when in everything between ALttP->TP felt very "monumental" in their finales, including the final story scenes where it felt all kinds of celebratory and cathartic to having EARNED a payoff for all the time you put into the game. The endings always deflate all the time you wasted in these open world sandboxes by being just Zelda appearing and smiling at the screen.

>>715063067 (OP)
not even reading the thread i just KNOW the bottom half is wind waker and the thread will be full of people saying "it's good though"

wind waker is not good and the last good zelda was minish cap

>>715063645
>>715063645
>not even reading the thread i just KNOW the bottom half is wind waker
Wind Waker is in the top half :) and it's exactly the same as OoT and TP. It seems you haven't given it a chance.

I think the dungeons in TOTK are a huge step up from BOTW but they still ain't the zelda dungeons i love because getting all your items at once annhilates that classic zelda pacing and sense of exploration, finding all the different ways your new items interact with the world

>>715063645
Retards like you who compare windwaker to BOTW have only played Ubislop zelda. Windwaker is a linear based game with an open world, the same as ALTTP. Nu Zelda is an open world game with no direction and 900 collect-a-slop items to find

>>715063067 (OP)
you can still have dungeons, items and story in an open world game...
the problem is more the execution than the formula, I would put the classic formula within the new one, but still have mini shrines and optional collectibles

>>715063067 (OP)
perfect

>>715063772
I want to potentially kill Aonuma, just whoever made the "New Dungeon Template" because it seems to me that they said "Do away with Map/Compass/Small key design" and then said "We're gonna rethink it from scratch!!!"

That's cool in itself, and has a ton of potential. But the Divine Beasts/"Temples" in BotW/TotK end up being the absolute shallowest part of those games because the "New" formula is this "Find 5 Switches" thing. It's so overly basic and so uneventful compared to what they had before. It's change for the sake of change. There's even Shrines with Small Keys inside them, and what's wrong with mini-bosses?

There's nothing good about this change. I don't understand what they're thinking here? Why can't they design "old Dungeon Templates" but work it around the "go anywhere at any point" method? Just allow the player to enter a small-key room from the roof because they can, and overcome the dungeon without the dungeon item if they can figure it out. That's how the rest of the game is made anyway. It's Zelda but without guard-rails or handholding. But the "5 Switches" design flattens the dungeons so completely that you just end up going through the motions and get it over with, and you don't really remember anything afterwards.

The dungeons should be even larger than ever now that it's open world and Link has this high level of mobility and ability to climb and glide everywhere. I imagine a Dungeon being an entire volcanic crater, or like a whole Open World location in the game. A Mario Odyssey sized level should be a Dungeon and there should be way more than 4 of them.

It really feels at odds with the rest of the game now that they've pivoted the design.

>>715063859
Wind Waker's Great Sea is literally just Ocarina of Time if you controlled Link by sailing across it instead of walking on legs. It's literally the same, but retards always mistake it for being "Open World" or "Ubislop" just because it works by picking a wind direction and not really touching the controller much, which feels too boring to most people. All it did was simulate the feeling of traveling sea by boat. Everything else in the game is fundamentally the same design pattern as how OoT or TP's Hyrule layout is done.

>>715063067 (OP)
All they needed to do was just have better dungeons in totk instead of dumbed down 5 keys horseshit. Imagine having 7 temples with the complexity of the Water Temple in totk. They should be capable of making it, but for some reason they choose not to. Because they're trying to get dumb kids to buy Zelda. They want it to be accessible like Minecraft. This is the problem. Yes, I understand that some of the shrines in totk are somewhat complex, but shrines are optional and don't matter. I'm talking about main story progression, not optional bullshit that most players won't even see

>>715064315
blame 'dragon quest builders' that shit is catnip for japanese autistics.

>>715063968
The problem is that they're trying to save money where they can, and dungeons are the most "not worth it" aspects of the production, so they're minimizing them to lipservice oldschool fans, but not really giving it the attention they should.
Worst part is that most Nu-Zelda fanboys seem to love the Shrines in particular, and what we all kind of want, I think, are just really really huge dungeons, outdoor or indoor, but confined spaces that are kinda like a mega-shrine, but it's inside the rest of the world, and you can still climb on walls but you just get way more challenged by the level-design inside this confined space than traveling across the Hyrule Field.

Such a waste making Sky Islands and "Depths" in TotK. It really suggested to me that Aonuma and Fujibayashi are beating around the bush instead of making what they should be making. I think everyone would be amazed by a kind of dungeon that's Breath of the Wild-like, and just super huge. You can glide from one end of the dungeon to the other, but there's contraptions everywhere, and arenas that will trap you with enemies, and sealed rooms with mini-bosses and the main boss somewhere, and otherwise it's free game to just mess around in it, and merge through floors or climb over the walls.

The dungeons in TotK are so small compared to everything you can do as Link that it made me feel like I had to be careful not to go nuts with it. It goes against the whole design of the game.

>>715064305
based and true. its closer to twilight princess than ocarina because you have even less freedom than oot

>>715063772
TotK Fire Temple is a fucking joke because they gave you a “warp through ceilings” power at the start of the game.

>>715064315
I want it so that TotK's Water Temple is a "Part 1" of the full temple. So you clear it, and it unlocks either an underground compartment or an island even higher above that you can reach because the waterfall connects to it, and then that part is maybe 1.5x as big as the dungeon we cleared.

And yes, then 7 of those. It pisses me off that Aonuma stays "Zelda GAIDEN" for these games, like he did with Majora's Mask. They did that for "Side stories" in the past. Even Wind Waker kinda has 5 temples because Tower of the Gods is the third one, before the last 2. And especially when you have the subtropical region and the 2 ice mountains, it's like, what the fuck, why are there just huge open world areas with nothing special in them? EVERY Region in Open World Zelda should have a dungeon.

Even better, I think there should be 4 "Main regions" that connect the narrative, but the remaining 3 "Extra" regions have entirely player-discovered side-dungeons. They're just as complex, and they become the fan-favorites because all players felt like they stumbled into them, and found a big secret themselves.

It's the thing I wanted the most out of BotW when I saw what they were doing, and I was so weirded out to discover it just isn't in the game.

>>715064972
remember when he and miyamoto we're playing the game on the wii u and miyamoto saw ruins and thought "there must be a dungeon in there"

>>715065126
But of course, dungeons aren't a core part of Zelda. FREEDOM and EXPLORATION and CHOICE are! Don't you love EXPLORING to find things you can engage with now the same as if you had found them 80 hours ago?

>>715065126
The problem is Fujibayashi. Whether it's completely linear or completely open is the same to him. His idea is that "Everything MUST be FUN" so the game has to have "non-stop gameplay" so he doesn't understand why Zelda usually distinguished open world (buffers) from dungeons (gameplay design) or the fact that it's this very distinction that gave Zelda the feeling of adventure, going from "familiar" to "unfamiliar" in a proper ebb and flow.

Skyward Sword->BotW most people see some sort of great remedy. I just saw the same design problems that plagued SS as a Zelda game carried into a different format. it's still Fujibayashi-coded as fuck, and that isn't a good thing. He doesn't understand the core of Zelda and any time he talks about the "essence of Zelda" he talks very loosely about it, which indicates he has never actually thought about it.

>>715065510
>everything must be non stop gameplay
>cutscenes out the ass

>>715065764
His fetish for his perfect untouchable unquestionable high schooler goddess waifu Zelda overrides all thoughts related to gameplay.

Despite your schizophrenia, your point is perfect. This is the plague of most open world games, as building narrative tension is significantly more difficult when you can approach the narrative in any way you want with little to no barriers. It's even worse in TotK where each major dungeon shows you an identical cutscene narrated by a different character.

I just replayed BotW on the Switch 2, did all 120 shrines, got every piece of gear that wasn't DLC, etc. I enjoyed my time with it again, but I felt no qualms skipping every single cutscene. The story is basically irrelevant.

>>715065973
I'd sadly give up Zeldass if it meant no more shit about "Shiekah have SUCH SCI-FI TECHNOLOGY, that it's as if the Gods in Zelda were just ANCIENT TECH!"
I fucking hate that shit. I want it to end.

>>715065510
He connects well with the Disney Princess foids who want a game about their subservient golden retriever boyfriend saving them, and that makes Nintendo a lot of money. Wish he understood legitimately anything else people liked about Legend of Zelda.

>>715066168
ancient tech was only good when halo did it and literally never before or again.

>>715063067 (OP)
Comparing Ziggy Stardust to Low.

>>715066168
I like ancient tech but at this point it feels like it's trying to override half the setting, so yeah, agree.

>>715065764
Conversely, everything on Wii or 3DS was just pause to the gameplay over a tutorial NPC explaining everything and asking you to take breaks. That crap came from Iwata, not Fujibayashi. Skyward Sword is at its core a linearized OoT-like where instead of Hyrule being semi-open-world, they just took the "outdoor" regions and made them into "Levels" so that there's no difference whether you're inside a dungeon or outside, because all of it is "Zelda Dungeon Gameplay" at all times, and only a miniscule hub area is left.

He took that same approach on the flipside with BotW and just said "Now everything is Open World FUN" but you could still make a real Open World Zelda that's like an Open World Zelda. A game where you have areas that aren't really about the gameplay being super challenging or fun, squeezed in between locations and dungeons out in the world where the actual enemy camps and gameplay depth happens.

I think most BotW fans love just traveling across the world anyway, and taking in the sights themselves. You could just make that game but not flood it with Korok Seeds and Shrines everywhere, but plant enemies as they do, monetary rewards, as they do (rupees, weapons) in between actual locations that have dungeons, where more hardcore stuff happens. That would give the games a better sense of safety vs danger, that I only sometimes get out of BotW but not nearly often enough because Shrines are there to suck up all the gameplay-focus and doesn't actually happen in the rest of the open world.

>>715066414
Now I’m just reminded that we were robbed of Conan-kino with the Zonai because having another race of technomonks made it easier for Nintendo to just re-use BotW’s concepts and structure wholesale.

>>715066481
Skyward Sword being the prequel to everything as Fujibayashi's first outing spelled it pretty clearly. He wants it to be so that the 3 Goddesses you heard about in OoT are actually just highly advanced sci fi robots, just like the Master Sword isn't god-imbued but it has an AI-girl inside it. And replace all of that with "Goddess Hylia."

He has awful taste imo.

>>715066694
>literally made the Master Sword into the worst sidekick in Zelda right after we just got the absolute best sidekick in Zelda

>>715066694
to this day ALTTP still has the coolest origin for the master sword

>>715063067 (OP)
Are there formulas for other games available ?

>>715067375
ALTTP and OOT are both the peak of cool stuff in Zelda, and TP has glimpses of cool that are overshadowed by tryhard cringe. Everything after is kind of lame.

>story

fujibayashi wants zelda to be adventure time so badly.

>>715067884
writing story off completely is the reddit thing to do

>>715064195
This was already becoming a problem in the prior games, with less trust placed in the player when it comes to actually understanding a complicated and interdependent 3D space without repeatedly telling and showing the player what effect their actions have. If you were solving puzzles, then you were mostly doing so room-by-room or the solution would be handed to you.
I would almost assert that the designers of large portions of the game do not have faith in the player to imagine hypothetical alternative configurations of larger spaces or even the ability to do so themselves.
>>715065973
>Right-handed Link
>Stamina wheel
>High schooler Zelda
>Zelink
>Throw out established lore
>UI is complete ass
>Entirely new branch of forerunner magitech every fucking time
>Muddled and indecisive aesthetic, with enemies and non-humans that trend towards being substantially more wacky than the generic humans, as if he's trying to avoid offending Aonuma for discarding the cat human toon characters
Yep, it's Fujibayashi time.

>>715067971
Story in videogames is wikipedia plot section tier THIS HAPPENS THEN THIS HAPPENS THEN THIS HAPPENS THEN YOU BEAT THE BOSS THEN GOOD ENDING/BAD ENDING (bad ending?????? So le deep!)
It's just a dressing to the gameplay. It can be a nice add-on, but to treat it on the same level or even as more important than the gameplay like the OP picture does is just nonsense

>>715068218
and i want a good wikipedia article over a bad wikipedia article

>>715068218
Well lucky for you, BotW/Totak gameplay also blows.

>>715067992
Things I would change
>Link should be left-handed (no motion controls anyway)
>Fuck Stamina wheel, it should only appear when climbing.
>Zelink? She was built for BGC in TotK, so make actual Zelink
>Keep established lore and drop the "sci fi" crap
>Don't alienate the overseas audience by making the areas feel too "feudal japan" or use too many asian music instruments like his games do
>UI has a rupee marker, hearts, and currently equipped inventory
>Hearts come out of grass
>Food is only for stamina-related, swimming related, stat related boosts, not HP
>Music plays a "Zelda fanfare loop" when you go from towns/enemy locations into more idyllic areas.
>7 dungeons, not 4
>Closer to TP's aesthetic for BotW3, and less "Wind Waker but more mature" because it's bland as fuck
>Chests go "da-da-da-daaaaa~" again if the reward inside them are big
>Master Sword can't break
>There are only 1 of each "mini-boss" to find in the overworld, not 32 of each of them.

>>715068218
>It's just a dressing to the gameplay. It can be a nice add-on, but to treat it on the same level or even as more important than the gameplay like the OP picture does is just nonsense
It was what gave older Zelda games the feeling of "masterpiece" by the time they conclude, because the stories they told unfolded through the steps of the main story's gameplay, and by the end it feels emotionally cathartic and poignant, because they told an actual story at the same time as they sent the player through fun puzzles and combat inside and outside of dungeons.

>>715068563
Zelinkfags get the rope

>>715068218
Nothing beats gameplay, but good stories are remembered. It's place 5, I'd say. At least 30% skip the story as a whole.

>>715068645
I don’t think any game before OOT felt like that except maybe LA

>>715068218
Story, or at least writing, in a game determines how and how reliable the gameplay is at carrying the experience on its own and can elevate the gameplay significantly by forcing the player to view it in a specific context.
If the story/writing is shit, then you need to watch cutscenes, or visual novel sections in between gameplay, because they couldn't let the gameplay do the heavy lifting or simply chose the wrong gameplay for the story they were telling.

>>715063772
i don't even think the progression items are that necessary, it's just that THE DUNGEONS IN TOTK WERE FUCKING 10 MINUTES LONG

>>715068748
For me it's OoT, LA, WW and to some extent MM. ALttP has a bit of the magic too, but yeah, it doesn't guarantee it's there just because it has the same "formula" as OoT.

>>715069149
Retarded post

>>715069641
They're shorter than normal dungeons are, but not much honestly. They just feel short because everything else in the game stacks up to 215 hours of idling around in an overlarged map so only having 4 dungeons that are less eventful than before creates the feeling that they're way smaller than they should be.

>>715069787
alttp is my fav because I want to fuck that Zelda in particular

>>715069874
the introduction and preparation phase for the dungeons take up the majority of the time, when you actually step into the actual dungeon it's almost over already. the water temple had like two puzzles

>>715064605
nah
what happened was covid massively ruined the full scale plans for totk, so they just polished whatever they had done and released it as soon as possible after they got back to the office
they were going to do more dungeons and do more with ganondorf but the project was way over budget and way behind schedule
that's why you only see ganon's horse in a cutscene and not in the actual game
you can tell the water temple was rushed

if totk had 50 different enemies, 8-10 dungeons and a stronger story
nobody would complain

it was still an improvement over botw's 4 dungeons, at least we got actual bosses this time instead of the recycled calamity ganon

>>715070256
>>if totk had 50 different enemies, 8-10 dungeons and a stronger story
>>nobody would complain
>if the game was better people would think it was better
so insightful

>>715068218
If you think OP is solely talking about the disconnected Wikipedia events of the plot and not the way the game feels overall, you have never really experienced a video game. Building tension throughout the game by having SOMETHING actually fucking happening isn't just "plot" it's pacing as a whole, it ties in to atmosphere and game progression. A game story is not an isolated thing if you don't make it like BOTW/TOTK's.

>>715070256
This isn't remotely true lmao.
BotW on the other hand actually got rushed. Wii U was the goldmine for games with undercooked content, and while they got a bigger budget than prior Zeldas, not astronomically so, because it hadn't been proven yet, and I believe even aonuma said they had many ideas they didn't use, and actually cut the dev cycle short to shift into "Playtesting mode" around 2 years from launch. TotK had a similar schedule, where they spent about 3-4 years developing the content, but the remainder was completely about just making sure the physics didn't break and trying to get the game to actually run on Switch 1 hardware.

The difference is that TotK had more budget, and less time needing to be spent on just crafting the game systems. As a result, they got to make "proper dungeons" again but because it's Nu-Slop Zelda they wound up not really giving it the attention they should've. And in "Ask The Developers" Fujibayashi actually says that in the final years they considered not updating any NPC dialogue from BotW. This is probably why they ended up outsourcing it to Qalia writers, as they had seriously not given any thought to anything besides gameplay.

A lot of it is just incompetence. They don't give a shit about anything besides the content design of the Open World, and the dungeon team is probably understaffed.

>>715063067 (OP)
I hate weapon durability and I want it gone. When you get the Master Sword in both BotW and TotK it just makes everything fall apart and feel like a waste of time because your reward is essentially a 10 minute cool down, which feels like the equivalent of something breaking. It's fucking stupid. Combat also sucks, I hate how Link swings the sword now, they nerfed how fluid combat used to feel in the earlier 3D games and even got rid of the special moves from WW and TP.

The weapon breaking system only feels good when youre purposely throwing shit at enemies for crit dmg or kills.

>>715063067 (OP)
It used to be better before OoT yeah

>>715071143
>I hate weapon durability and I want it gone.
If you remove weapon durability as-is in BotW, the game will quickly begin to feel much more shallow and empty than most weapon-durability-haters realize.

The whole reason it's there is to create a survival-element that makes the player break off from the path they intended to take. You're headed up to a place with lots of enemies, but you waste all your gear on a random Hinox, now you'll wanna find some new stuff pretty quick, before resuming your path. That's when you go into the woods right next to you, rather than continuing your horse ride. That's when you find 5 more Korok Seeds and spot a Shrine you didn't see from the previous angle, and before you know it you're exploring yet another corner of the map that looks kind of inviting, because you started going in a different direction.

That's literally why weapons break in these games. If they didn't, you'd be "set" after a couple of hours of play, and you'd just go in a straight path past most of the game world, and see the major locations and end the game faster.

>>715071143
My main issue with the sword combat is the slowdown dodge shit. It's too much of a crutch. Besides that, it feels like a waste to put in more weapons in the game and not have some sort of unique special techniques for each one. It'd be interesting to have teachers that can help you learn moves for the different weapons.

Isn't the new Zelda a neuron tickle? Every other second there's binging wahoo and the world is solely copy paste.

>>715072296
>but you waste all your gear on a random Hinox
... and it drops equivalent gear or gear good enough to deal with the stuff that exists where you're going. 99 times out of 100. If you don't want to divert, you almost never have to. I take objection with this.

>>715072460
The quick-time doding is really poorly implemented. I also hate how if you stop swinging because the enemy reaches 0 HP in the slowdown you have to awkwardly wait for the montage to end itself. The game could have a much more sophisticated combat engine here, and I hope that's what they'll work on for the next game. As is, I just find the combat super wobbly and boring in BotW. It's harder than prior 3D games, which is great, but mostly due to damage ratio and not NPC behavior. But I really do think both OoT and Wind Waker had a better "combat feel" than BotW does. It's way more snappy, and BotW feels like a continuation of the child-friendly "LOOK AT HOW OBVIOUS I'M SWINGING" from Skyward Sword.

>>715072620
It is, and it's definitely pivoted for the TikTok audience, which is great because otherwise there's no future for games but if you lose the stuff that made it good in the process, just let vidyas die a painful death ngl.

>>715072296
i played it modded and had way more fun without weapon durability. your sword breaking fighting one bokoblin just isnt fun

>>715063067 (OP)
This but 2D Zelda formula

>>715072680
All I'm saying is that you can't remove it as is, in BotW, without breaking some fundamental feedback loops that keeps the exploration from feeling "dead" after a while. But they probably took it from Minecraft, like so much they've done since then, and not anything "smarter" than that as the impetus.

I definitely think they should abandon it going forward, but then they'll also be able to design exploration around it at the same time. I think TotK had a nifty trick where the weapons are the tools to fight enemies, but the stuff you can attach to weapons give them properties that feel like Zelda items. You could essentially remove durability entirely, and just give Link the ability to swap out 5 weapons whenever you find it without being obligated to do it, and then the "consumable" stuff is about what stuff to put on your weapons, to give them the properties to create fires or send gusts of wind or become like boomerangs. That would stop the games from frustrating durability-haters, and it would still retain the feedback loop of "getting something out of" enemy camps.

>>715072785
I don't mind some tickles, but Zelda is grotesque, it's constant firing at neurons. That's not a game and certainly not a rpg. Playing yakuza rn and playing slot machines. People spend their life in front of slot machines, some pictures imitating a story and horrible sound effects. It's basically Zelda light. Spooky. Shame game devolve into work. There should be a movement fighting this, but movements are usually astroturf.

>>715072792
I'm not convinced it's better as a whole just because you're one individual who's able to enjoy it on an emulator.

You probably played it for 5 hours and got distracted. I'm talking about if you 100% the game, it has to sustain itself, and it also has to give the player nudgy reasons why they automatically feel a need to break off and go to different spots. I personally find most of the time I got to see random little corners of the map because I had to look for a Korok Leaf, or I ran out of the best items, so I headed over to a nearby Enemy compound to knock down some white and black-colored respawns. I did this a ton in TotK, and it was out of a sense of need, which to me reinforces the Open World design they made.

>>715073196
no i didn't 100% the game because there's no point. its all the same after a certain point. i beat the divine beasts and then fought ganon. i dont care about doing all 120 shrines

>>715072460
>It's too much of a crutch
did it? took me like 80 hours to actually perform flurry rushes and such, extremely difficult timing

>>715073460
do you collect disability checks by chance

>>715073673
no

>>715072276
LttP established the formula.

>>715070864
>considering not even updating dialogue
Holy shit, didn’t know this. They were honestly looking to cut every corner they could for the new gimmick mechanics, weren’t they?

I'm a proud Ocarina-snoy and Majora's Mask Eric. nu-Zelda's overworld lacks any compelling structure and its dungeons are crap. I don't want to build cars and I don't want to climb cliffs, I want to play a proper fucking Zelda game!

>>715073862
Zelda 2 did.

>>715074404
I want to have a foursome with Riju, Purah, and Paya but other than that these games suck

>>715074482
Now that I think about it, the first game did as well. I don't think OP knows what In Media Res means.

>>715074482
Zelda 1 already did. Sure, you can find bombs and go straight to Ganon, and that makes it less of the ALttP formula, but ultimately, it's still different from BotW in that it's a game where the world contains tangible secrets that you use to find all 7 dungeons, which is exactly what BotW never ever does, and yet people concentrate solely on how it's delinearized from Ocarina of Time's format, and call it "a return to NES Zelda" when it isn't even doing that.
NES Zelda didn't have "ubisoft towers" or give you all key items at the start of the game, and ask you to "go anywhere you like and clear it at first glance."

BotW is the first Zelda game that has the principle that anything in front of you can be exhausted right away, and never have to be dealt with again. It's the first Zelda game to omit the whole principle that
>Player sees thing they can't overcome
>Remember that
>Player comes back later with a new item
>AHA! I can get past this
>Ooh, what's inside?!
That's my only problem at the end of the day with BotW/TotK. They just frontload all the secrets to the player and ask you to pick from a buffet of locations that never ask you to memorize or connect between each other.

>>715074590
In medias res just means the story starts from a protagonist's already ongoing plot. Ocarina of Time doesn't, WW and TP don't. ALttP don't. They start before the protagonist is involved, and then show how they get involved. Zelda 1 doesn't have much of a story, so Link is just "somewhere", and Zelda 2 kinda does start right the second Link gets his task.

TotK for example is in-medias-res because it starts with Link and Zelda already chasing a lead related to the "gloom". Skyward Sword also kinda starts with Link getting strange dreams and an encounter with Fi. While OoT could be the same, Navi is a natural element in the forest, and Link just has a premonitive nightmare about Ganondorf, but otherwise lives his day to day, then Navi is given to him as a fairy, and the Deku Tree getting sick begins the story.

>>715074790
The “BotW/TotK is a return to Zelda 1” argument is entirely something astroturfed by Nintendo’s marketing team. Because they know retard zoomers and normies who never played Zelda 1 will mindlessly parrot it at anyone who wants a return to classic Zelda.

I can forgive weapon breaking if they can find a way to make dungeons feel compelling again. I greatly disliked the divine beasts in botw and "dungeons" in totk. They really need to go back to the drawing board for dungeon design. Zelda isn't just about exploration, dungeons need to have a larger presence again. Some of the shrines in botw felt like miniature dungeons, but there just weren't enough of those. I barely remember any shrines from totk, just a lot of weird vehicle sections and stealthing around enemies.

>>715075068
What they actually meant is "we played Minecraft and realized Gen Alpha kids are gonna filter Nintendo and leave us with zillenials if we don't adapt our existing IP to what kids play more than Nintendo games, oh shit."

My biggest gripe with nu zelda is that they could make 3 or 4 big dungeons, but they simply refuse to do it.

>>715075014
That's not what it means. It means you're starting right in the middle of the plot, not the "protagonist's" plot, which you're doing in both Zelda 1 and 2. Link's Awakening is the one that doesn't by pulling the Adol maneuver. Link to the Past does it as well.

>>715075396
I don't like that 4-5 seems to be the normal they're comfortable with now. What happened to 8-10 dungeons being the average?

>>715075197
IMO they have to make Dungeons as immersive as the rest of the open world feels, even if that includes gutting some of the upfront storytelling to instead make it implicity and player-discovered inside the dungeons. And then clearing a dungeon needs to have a better feeling of having overcome an ordeal than the totally superfluous "Champion" abilities that only aid the existing mechanics but don't really become essential to gameplay. It's like if you cleared Forest Temple in OoT and all you got was Nayru's Love from it. (An ability that gives Link a mana-draining shield, and you never use it)
I'd like for an area of Hyrule to come into existence upon solving a main dungeon. Like, you see a mountain that looks a bit "off", and it's a real dungeon. You go inside it, and defeat the boss, and then outside the mountain transforms into a hovering platform that contains some sort of Zelda-goddess thing on it, and clearing 3 of the dungeons forms a triforce, and standing where the triforce centers reveals a temple with a special power inside it, which grants Link the ability to enter the next 4 dungeons, and the story unfolds along the way, as Link unraveling these things makes the antagonist find the locations as well, so you can have a bit of a "Zant" moment when exiting the fourth location, in whichever order.

I had a moment in TotK that reminded me of old-zelda because I never bothered to fight Gloom Hands, so my first time ever seeing Phantom Ganon was when I had to find the way up to Korok Forest from underground. Not having seen any real presence of Ganondorf in the "active" story earlier, made this feel monumental to me. That's kinda all I want, and if you balance that with "proper dungeons" but it's still Open World, then it's basically what I already wanted out of this type of Zelda game.

>>715075573
Would take too much time away from the open-ended, one-off physics puzzles and Korok turds. Aonuma won, he gets to make Wind Wakers (that don’t even have to have the stuff that was good about Wind Waker) for the rest of his days.

>>715075564
Yeah ok, so TotK isn't quite in-medias-res but whatever. Most OoT-clones start from the "humble origins" and even ALttP is just Link in his house with the Uncle having gone, so that's also Humble Origins. Besides Link and Zelda spelunking, the premise of TotK is the same as BotW where the whole plot has "happened" and Link only gets a semblence of an active plot by finding past memory cutscenes, which makes it feel like the rest of the game is in medias res.

>>715075801
This isn't "Wind Waker" at all. Wind Waker's open world has the same structure as Hyrule in Ocarina of Time. Instead of holes with pointless caves inside them you just have islands with Treasure Charts on them. The only connection between WW and BotW is that WW found a technical way to seamlessly render the entire openworld without instancing it into "Center", "Left Region", "Right region" etc.

>>715063067 (OP)
You wrote a basic summary of the game and used buzzwords to describe the aspects you didn't like.
You need to understand that you are in fact being heard out and understood, it's just than no one cares because you're failing to see the bigger picture and think that calling things ubisoft is an argument. You've been talking with the same ten people who agree with you for 8 years. If you feel like you've grown out of Zelda then move on to something else. It's not a lifestyle.

>>715071143
They should have your weapon lose its edge as you use it and sharpen it with a whetstone. Throwing your weapons should be reduced to say, a new weapon type like throwing knives and throwing axes like Diablo and you can stack them too. Magic rods/staffs should be treated as such, and they need to bring back the magic meter.

>>715072296
>the game will quickly begin to feel much more shallow and empty than most weapon-durability-haters realize.
...so you're admitting that the game is fundamentally shallow with its system. So it needs to change next game and a rehaul of the system, the way you earn rewards and the rewards themselves more substantial. I don't want to treat my weapons as ammo when there's actual ammo in the game alongside it. Same with Bows. No durability, your quantity of arrows are crucial to its use.

we're going home

>>715076087
>buzzwords to describe the aspects you didn't like.
Why do zoomerfailures always say that when they can't come up with a rebuttal?

>>715076123
>so you're admitting that the game is fundamentally shallow with its system. So it needs to change next game and a rehaul of the system,
I don't love it, but I feel like I understand what it accomplishes in the absence of something else to make the world feel like it isn't fucking dead inside.
I'm not really a fan of these open world games because I find that the world itself is largely pointless, but I at least feel like the durability creates a reason to not get fed up with how bland and overly plain everything is.

I'd absolutely want them to rethink most of this. All I said was, if you outright remove durability from BotW, the game becomes more bare to see for how boring and shallow it really is.

>>715076292
Sadly, they're going to continue this system of weapon durability and korok seed hunting, only they'll reskin the seeds as something else. And we won't see it for another three years and play it for five.

>>715078420
I think whatever comes next it will be a further bastardization of Zelda, and the people that loved BotW won't be able to connect the dots between
>Zelda goes full normieslop
>It is now life-service monetization greedslop
And they'll claim that Zelda has completely shifted towards a cashgrab appeal it never had before.
It would be another accurate prediction like when I said TotK would be better in every way than BotW was including repeating all the things that aren't great to begin with about it, but fans would act as if they remembered BotW being way better than it. And that's exactly the reaction people had with TotK.

>>715063067 (OP)
I dont see any equations. How is this a formula?

>>715063067 (OP)
Why does there have to be a fucking "formula"

Are nintendo is so creatively bankrupt they gotta copy paste the same game for 20 years? Just make a new fucking game and dont use a "formula". Botw was great but totk sucked i dont eanna play the same game iver and over again

>>715081238
>Why does there have to be a fucking "formula"
Because any video game is a formula at the end of the day. I think many would be happy if games never repeated themselves entirely, but if you get a sequel you're going to expect some traditions to be upheld or it won't feel enough like it's the same franchise. For the same reason that I don't think most would appreciate it if Nintendo made a Zelda game that was entirely a multiplayer third person shooter with sci fi armor.
It's myopic to suggest that games don't run in formulas, and we shouldn't argue whether one format is better than the other. But to your point, it's best not to just repeat BotW's formula endlessly, same as it's best not to repeat Ocarina of Time, but if we have to pick which formula is better so far, many will agree that it's actually the old formula that stood the test of time, and only 1 or 2 more BotW-clones can happen before we stop giving a shit about "Zelda".

>>715081238
Gotta have flour to make bread

>>715081238
>why do you want a game series you love to maintain the structure that made you fall in love with it?

>>715083116
Brother, you need to find something you actually enjoy and stop clinging to the one good memory you had as a child. I'm telling you this because I care.

>>715083272
I'm fine. You on the other hand seem pretty upset that some people think nu-Zelda is a step in the wrong direction for the franchise.

>>715063067 (OP)
>see aftermath of world post-story
I will pass on any and all future Zelda games that pull this shit. Having the most interesting part of the plot be behind you by the time the game actually starts is bullshit, and making a musou game that tries to sell you that interesting part only to STILL not give it to you borders on feeling spiteful, especially when it's happened not once but twice.
>b-but age of imprisonment is going to be canon!!
I will not be fooled by these people again.

>>715083512
You made this thread to get validation for your opinion of a game that came out 8 years. You've also been doing this since it came out. You're not fine.

>>715083869
>You made this thread
Except I didn't.

>>715063067 (OP)

Being a schizo makes your opinion invalid.