>teammates pick this thing
>instantly quit out
im not carrying you through the game

>teammates pick raider
>best players ever

Is it too late to get into Nieghtrign?

>>715144108
nah its pve so theres no real sweaty retards gatekeeping

>>715143892 (OP)
cue 20 guardian players trying to tell you how useful they are because they die last

>>715147234
they always say shit like
>bro look how many hits im taking for the TEAM! now my TEAM can do the damage! the FLOCK bro!
when in reality the boss is at 38% hp instead of being dead because that dude is doing absolutely fuck all beyond being dead weight

>>715143954
This game doesn't have k***hts?

>>715143954
The difference between the best and the absolute worst Raider player is next to nothing. The character is designed to perform at maximum efficiency even if the player is lobotomized.

>>715148451
>bonkchads are retarded
Based.

>>715143954
I see thing with health bar.
I bonk.
Simple as.

>>715148408
Idk how he did it, i promise it isnt edited
Sadly our 3rd quit out after day 1 and eventually he did too
RIP niggerkiller... it was fun while it lasted

Guardian is like Executor with less status and more crowd control but the Executor gets Rivers of Blood 80% of games and his main weapon is a status stick. They also made deflect frames really forgiving, I went back to SOTE recently and the deflect hardtear has a way smaller window and last year, I thought it had quite a big one! Because it does!

Supposed to be a tank but has no real method of pulling aggro, duchess and ironeyes steady dps means boss is usually on them instead

>>715143892 (OP)
Guardian is fine, Wylder Raider and Ironeye need nerf. Game's too easy in general and it plays itself with these characters

Greatshields need to drop more often

>>715149172
Executor is far stronger offensively which is why it isn't dead weight. Even when deflecting it is offensively dealing posture damage on each deflect and it isn't losing stamina so it doesn't give up damage potential to block. Charged guard counter is just not applicable in enough situations during the fights which actually matter

>>715143892 (OP)
>im not carrying you through the game
As if you even could. You sound like the type of arrogant bastard that ends up falling badly anyway, forcing me to revive you in crucial moments to keep going.
The Guardian is great. The super block is amazing. The damage reflect is splendid. Being able to revive the entire party even they're at 3 bars, and then make them invulnerable to damage, and recover them to full health. Is a very strong ultimate.
And his guard counters are genuinely useful for efficient guard breaking, and they deal decent damage too. Especially when paired with the damage reflect.

>>715149784
Sorry that you play with shitters but no, i havent played with a bird since release and have a 30+ win streak because of it
The other anon was right, the game is too easy, ive won a ton of duos with quitouts before but overall the bird is such deadweight its a distraction, you do no damage and evetually die because you sit in melee

>>715149350
He really needs a built-in aggro magnet as a passive or something, that or they fix the relic which is supposed to do that because it clearly is not working properly.
Was ridiculous when I fought BBH on castle rooftop and it keep running after my teammates even when I hit him like 4-5 times in a row

>>715143892 (OP)
I hate playing him but i want to finish all rememberance questlines. Only he and recluse are left.

>>715150229
>the game is too easy
No it's not.

>>715151627
perhaps for you it is.
but not for me.

Reverion, Vengeance Incarnate

>>715143892 (OP)
>>715147234
>>715147351
The funniest part is that revenant, raider, or executor can tank just as well or better than a guardian

>>715149784
Revenant can do that too lil bro
And she gives everyone death immunity and a damage boost when she does it
Plus she can deal actual damage with miracles, and her summons tank just as well as guardian. Better, actually, since they don't have to be revived

guardian needs to be reworked to have a taunt. people say revnant and guardian are the worst characters, but rev is way more usefull than the fucking bird

>>715152429
>Revenant can tank just as well or better than a guardian
not sure what you mean by this, her using her summons to take the aggro off her is not "tanking". also Revenant's ult doesn't grant teammates immunity after reviving them, so they can go down immediately after getting up, Guardian's ult can at least give them some breathing room and save them from a giga-nuke if the boss happens to do one at that moment.

>>715153057
>Taking aggro isn't tanking
Then what does guardian even do?
Sitting behind your shield and dealing zero damage isn't helpful, in fact it's actually worse than if you would just leave the match because you're raising enemy scaling just by being there
A two player team is better off than a team with a guardian

>Guardian
>Bad
You realize you're not supposed to JUST block with him, right? Guard Counters are in the game.

>>715153395
You mean like executor also has?

>>715153423
Yeah, but thrusting weapons also benefit from counter damage. I'm not gonna try and pretend guardian is the BEST, but he's really not as bad as people are implying here.

>>715143892 (OP)
I play guardian by dropping his shield and almost exclusively charge attacking with halberds

>>715153554
>thrusting weapons also benefit from counter damag
And it would still deal less damage and stance break than a raider powerstancing two colossal weapons and spamming jump attack
There is literally nothing guardian has that another class doesn't do better, he needs a buff or even a rework and until he gets it there's no reason to play him unless you're a furfag

>>715153719
fully rework is needed, having a guardian is like playing with 2.5 people. 0 damage, rev ulti is better, executor block is better, cant tank because he does not hold agro
if someone picks guardian, i am insta leaving

Speaking of guardian, a surprisingly huge pool of weapons types are still not tied to characters, to list a few:
>straight swords
>thrusting sword
>Spears and great spears
...etc
I wonder which direction FROM will take with; one weapon type per character(Wylder, Duchess...etc),or one character with multiple weapons(Raider).

In retrospect, it's kinda odd how Wylder doesn't have straight sword as a compatible weapon, duchess with thursting swords or Guardian and spears...

>>715143892 (OP)
the game's not that difficult that everyone needs to pick OP meta characters bro, why not let people play shitty bird with a shield if that makes them happy

My mains are ironchad, revenant and recluse. I don’t like raiders, they usually think they know where to go and won’t follow me when I know 100% where to go in noklateo and the crater and I can get us to level 15 easily but they keep wanting to do shitty camps instead.

>>715150229
I have a 30+ winstreak spamming bird with everdark randoms.

There's no better litmus test for learning that someone is a passive player than hearing them say guardian can't get aggro.

>>715144108
I imagine it would have died by now

The game is way too easy. I literally just started it and won 3 out of 3 games, 1 solo and 2 with randoms. Which means I've done like 40% of the game's content already.
I really hope they add a hard mode or something.

>>715147234
>cue people who don't play guardian or exec completely forgetting how broken as shit guard counters are.

Idk. Maybe you guys just never tried then in ER. Not with all the extra boosts and moves that can be added to them, they're more broken than ever.

>>715149360
Hugely agreed. The game already isn't hard but retards spam broken classes and the evergaol relic and then afk/troll when you ignore them. One of my buddies is like this and on VC he was absolutely malding when we had a run go south and didn't hit evergaols for him so we started the final boss at level 11-12. We struggled, but clapped his ass. Idky people think making the final boss take 60 seconds is fun. It isn't. It's boring as fuck. Issue is if you're good you can't even play solo/duo, because the downscaling on enemy posture makes everything a joke.

At this point I'm actively joining my teammates' pings that are a bit of a waste of time, because even if you just play efficiently without any of the broken shit the game is still too easy.

>>715162463
>>715162463
Guard counters would have been amazing in any previous souls game beside ER. They are sitll okay in ER, but they are diminished because so many enemies will do a 10 hit combo and drain all your stamina and possibly break you OR the enemy has a 1 frame attack that gets you before the slower guard counter can hit. You're just better using some ash of war or something other of the dozens of tools.

>>715162463
oooooh boy you sure staggered that generic banished knight in the castle, well done anon, this will really help the team
Guard Counters are mediocre because this is a game where 2-3 characters in your team can continually wail on a boss for 80+% of the fight unhindered with status effects and magic. In that context getting the equivalent of one charged Halberd R2 every 20 seconds or so when the boss gives you a GC'able opening is just not relevant at all
This IS NOT ER

>>715163270
Yet another criticism that just reveals your passivity. You have the hp to spam guard counters even if it means you get hit.

>>715143954
STOP BURYING THE BOSS AND ITS DROPS INSIDE OF YOUR RETARDED KEK BLOCK FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

>>715163687
retard the limitation on how many times you're landing GCs on a nightlord isn't your fucking HP

>>715143892 (OP)
Don't care. Will still protect the flock.

>He's afraid of trading hits when guard-countering
SHIFTING EARTHS COST ONE BOSS CURRENCY. ALWAYS PICK SWAMP FOR THE HP REGAIN ON HIT. BECOME UNGOVERNABLE

>>715144108
nope you canplay solo offline too, pc version its best cause mods to curbstomp the retarded fornite system

>>715161359
It was hard on release. All the casuals got carried eventually and dropped the game, so only enjoyers are left

>>715152429
guardian has a worse booster passive than barricade ash of war yes, hell the guardboost number its bustedly retarded in this game i got 120 and still i loose stamina blocking

>>715153395
>Have a big shield
>No you dont block even thought we make shield block worse than vanilla elden ring

>>715148451
that isn't a bad thing

>>715143892 (OP)
Raider takes more damage and tankd better with no shield than a guardian with a shield.
guardian truly is shit.

>>715163687
its not hp problem retard you have 0 poise using guard counter and shit range most of the times

>>715164292
How the fuck did you confuse me saying you don't JUST block as "No you don't block"
How are you this dumb? Are you drunk? Did you get enough sleep last night? Is english like, your third language or something?

I love the bird. I really like staying in the bosses face with improved blocks and retaliating. I know it's not very good, and I'd be getting a ton more value by stunlocking with raider, but I just don't find it very fun. I think I contribute enough as him when I have two ranged teammates.

Rate my duchess load out.

>>715163726
AAAAAAAAAAAUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>715163828
You're right. It's whether the boss is focusing you or not. Almost like the "draw aggro while guarding" passive serves a purpose. What a thought.

I seriously can't understand you retards. It's like you're so 1 track minded you genuinely cannot think. If you're getting focused by the boss, you aren't wailing on him anyways. You're avoiding his damage. Whether you're doing it with rolls or blocks it doesn't matter, but blocking does allow you to follow up with the equivalent of 2 jumping power stance attacks in terms of posture damage in a single attack.

I'm not kidding in the slightest when I say you can tell who's actually tried getting gud at guardian/exec and who hasn't. Stop playing them like wylder & raider. Use your fucking fat head to think and play differently for once. For some reason, wylder/ironeye/raider players have this impression that all the other classes are boring or shit to play. They aren't. You just play every souls game the EXACT same way and continued the status quo for NR.

>>715144108
Nah go for it. Everyone was shitting on it so I held off but turns out it's actually a lot of fun. It's Elden Ring x Fortnite which sounds terrible on paper and it *is* rough around the edges and sometimes teammates are morons but fuck it, it's fun.

>>715164189
Well you definitely aren't using his passive, because you clearly never bothered hitting the training ground to see how to activate it. Also, "guard boost" boosts guard counters. It doesn't boost defensive capabilities.
>>715152429
Holy retard. You must also have never used Guardian's passive (block + dodge forward to enter the stance) because he most definitely tanks MILES better than anyone else. The only competitor is Raider if he gets nothing but +poise and +damage negation buffs, which is highly RNG dependent for what guardian does at level 1.

>>715165012
Outblocked by executor

Raider is without question the most boring person to play. Jump bonking gets old halfway through a single run before you never want to do it again & his character skill requires you to be a shitter to take the most advantage of it. He's 100% the noob's choice.

>>715165012
>"guard boost" boosts guard counters. It doesn't boost defensive capabilities.
You have to be baiting

>>715144108
You can but it's become trivial now
Most shitters have stopped playing so everyone left just steamrolls bosses 9 times out of 10

>>715165129
Depends on the enemy, desu. Plenty of enemies just bonk off hitting a shield, but do no such thing for deflections. Similar thing applies for big moves that would knock exec backwards if he deflected, but Guardian stays right in the boss's face when blocking them. The cursed sword stance is obviously really good, but it's much harder to block combo attacks and big moves effectively. For example, 90% of exec players aren't gonna deflect everdark Fulghor's combo or the scion's combos that come out so quickly one after another. While the deflect window is MUCH bigger than Sekiro or hardtear, it isn't spammable like the other 2 are.

My point is that guardian actually DOES have things that he is without question the best at. Most people just suck balls at learning to play around them/play differently.

>>715165129
>cuckxecutor spends the entire boss fight slowly waddling with his foam dildo out
fuck these useless retards. Id rather have the bird

>>715165393
I'll admit I was retarded there. I totally got it confused with something else. Doesn't change the fact that anyone just blocking into bosses on guardian is retarded. Use his passive shield stance and you can tank everything without using much stamina. Everyone seems to think his "passive" is actually a passive, not realizing that it's actually an active ability and requires you to block + dodge to activate it.

>>715165737
You can block during the sheathe or unsheathe, anyone who slowwalks with the sword out or attacks with anything other than a guard counter or charged slash is retarded and should be kicked
A bad guardian will outlive a bad executor, sure, but neither will pull their weight
A good executor will do a lot more damage than a good guardian, while tanking just as well
>>715165754
Bro nobody here is unaware of how steel guard works

>>715163904
If you traded hits, you didn't beat the boss.

Should I buy Nightreign or SotE?

>>715166749
Have you beat Mohg in Elden Ring?

>>715165754
maybe fromsoft should stop hiring his duwang tranny translator that fuck up even ranni ending dialogue

>>715166749
none pirate it

>>715166242
>and should be kicked
Ahhhh. You're a metafag. Got it. Go play solo for your 60 second boss fights that you stagger in 3 hits. Go live your power fantasy there. Again, this game is easy as piss and minmaxxing it just strangles all the fun out. You can tell which people here (& in game even) power levelled/cheesed when they hit a brick wall in ER/Souls vs those who smashed their head into it until they got better and conquered what was blocking them. Oh, and minmaxxing doesn't make you a good player. If anything, it does the opposite.

There are very clearly plenty of people here who don't understand how it works like >>715164441 >>715164292 >>715154825 for example.

>>715166841
I don't think I have a save that has or is close to him that isn't on NG+

>>715166749
Honestly? Pirate SotE and figure out if you like it and want to support it. Many hated it, but I've enjoyed both of my playthroughs of it and will do more down the road. The bosses are varied and really force you to learn their movesets and the best way to dodge attacks. It's really engaging, but also difficult if you don't just cheese/powerlevel. It provides a great challenge if you're willing to learn instead of rob yourself of that experience. If you just care about beating the DLC & moving on, I say skip it, but if you care about the experience and learning from hard fights, I highly recommend it.

>>715166945
Nothing >>715154825 said was wrong

>>715167089
Then get Nightreign
You can also just use creamapi to unlock SotE without paying for it if you own Elden Ring

>>715158434
he gets the same agro or less than other player while doing half the dps

>>715163726
This is such a terrible ult. Why is even its purpose. All I know is it deals like 5% damage to the boss so I just use it but feel bad every time.

>>715153395
The good ole "block, guard counter and get hit by the second hit of the 17 hit combo"

>>715163904
>Guardian apologists have evolved from "just get the right relics bro" to "just use this specific shifting earth every run bro"
Incredible.

>>715167197
Big physical damage boost to everyone nearby

>>715144108
Yeah, play solo. Play as Raider or Wylder until you get some experience then experiment with other characters.

>>715167747
I meant to say it's not too late. I'm retarded

>>715167197
>>715167448
Raider ult can absolutely be clutch, even if it has potential to be obnoxious.
Worst ult is, unsurprisingly, Guardian.
>B-but it's a full revive!
Yeah but you niggers never fucking save it. You monkeys just spam that shit whenever it's online despite doing piss all for damage. I've seen more clutch saves from fucking Revenant than I have from you lot.

>>715164462
vigor and end pretty much useless, you should have dozens of better relics with the dagger effect

colossals useless, rest is good but why not use the boss relic that combines starting frost, conceal in frost and frost damage?

What is even the point of that conceal after backstabs? That doesn't work on bosses and you don't need to conceal against rats. Rest is great.

Change first relic with anything else with the same effect, second relic with the frost boss relic and the third with the key+evergaols yellow one from the sigil shop

>>715167197
the rock can interrupt charges like the ones from fulghor and fallingstar beast

>>715143892 (OP)
Im trying to get good with Duchess I like her versatility but her Ult is too situational

>>715168075
>Vig and End are useless
Stop giving advice if you have room temp iq

>>715168064
I usually see guardian players waste it on teammates with 1 bar and then not have it when that teammate is at 3 bars

>>715149172
>deflect hardtear
i think its 6 (aka 12) frames in SOTE
and 12 (aka 24) in Niggrain

>>715167162
I'm more so on the exploration side. I wasn't too impressed by Elden Ring's way of handling boss fights, although they were mostly fun even if I thought they weren't well-designed. From what little I saw of SotE, the visuals were amazing, far better than the base game.

>>715168064
Worst ulti to me is recluse. The only use is for a infinite FP comet azur (if the boss doesn't move an inch)

>>715165210
You still get a lot of value from his skill even if it's not fully charged.

>>715166749
I enjoyed both. Sote can be a mixed bag, some parts seemed rushed and empty while others you can tell From seriously cooked on.

>>715168064
just because you saw some players using it wrong doesn't make it a bad ult, dumbass

>>715168905
Recluse is nice for team support at least, that heal on hit is shockingly useful.

>>715169208
>*More bird cope*
Cope more, bird brain.

>>715168209
Why would you say that when clearly you have no idea what those stats represent? Literally everyone will tell you stats are the worst thing you can get on a relic. vigor gives you a pathetic 10 hp and endurance gives you 2 stam (out of 50 at lvl 1). Now compare that to the +12% hp/stamina powers you will very frequently find.

>>715164702
I'd love to see a video of your Guardian gameplay where you think you're helping

>>715169417
Same for str, dex, etc btw. Improved *weapon* attacks is a bigger damage increase than stats

>>715164702
>Guardian nigger trying to imply they're in the same boat as Executor
Executor is actually good.

>>715164702
My main issue with Guardian is that you need so much relics rng to make him work. You want the aggro on guard, longer skill, heal on ulti, reflect damage on guard, heal on guard, thrust counterattack... You can (and must) live without some of these but you always feel gimped. Compared to other classes where you don't really need anything except a class effect and just stacking damage

>>715143892 (OP)
So, you dont like the pollo?, what the matter with you?.

>>715169417
NTA but they should be used to buff the stats a character is bad in
For example level 15 raider has 10 mind, so +2 mind is good on him
Judging by fixed relics Fromsoft thinks they should be used to buff already good stats, and I think that's how a lot of people use them without thinking about it, but that's retarded

Guardian should have reflect damage on (steel) guard by default, just as part of the class kit

>"Guardian is ba-
BIRD UP

>>715167197
>Why is even its purpose.
It knocks enemies out of almost any animation, it gives a party wide damage buff while it's out, and standing on it makes quite a lot of attacks (especially any ground effects or shockwaves) miss since most enemies have trouble aiming up.

>>715168905
It's good as a free flash and works with any spamable magic. Meteor on any giant enemy with this is bonkers

>>715168905
Recluse's ult is great for party wide FP refills if you have a Revenant/Duchess or if you have a party member with a good weapon skill.

>>715170020
>Dies after dealing .001% of the boss's max health over 30 minutes.
B-bird down...

>>715170271
i'd go down on that bird

>coolest looking character
>coolest looking skins
>shittiest to play
fucking criminal
can I get a raven Wylder or something?

>>715170271
>Abel went into his charging grabs phase

>>715170495
Beast skins for the other characters would be cool. But only if Guardian gets a skin where he's a human.

TAKE THE FUCKING GREATSHIELD

IF THE FINGERPRINT SHIELD IS SITTING THERE

TAKE IT

I DONT CARE IF YOURE NOT GUARDIAN

TAKE IT

IT BLOCKS EVERYTHING

SQUISHY RETARDS TAKE THE DAMN FINGERPRINT SHIELD

>>715170674
better the crow demon of dark souls but with a woman defined body and tits

>>715169883
Look at it from the flipside. Revenant has zero things she can ever get on a relic that are meaningful.
It's significantly worse to have nothing possible to get rather than too many things to get.

>>715169883
his best relic (Witch's Brooch) is a reward for completing his missions, so rng my ass. also heal on guard is useless and thrust counterattack is inferior to improved guard counters/guard counter dmg increased with full HP (the latter being a reward for killing the centaur)

>>715170729
Nope. I only run equipment that's thematic for my character.

>>715168905
No, Recluse's ult is still a net positive and if you have the relic effect, it even procs bleed for the AP boost from Lord of Blood's Exultation and that one power. Raider's ult is the ONLY one with the potential to completely fuck everything up.

>ult in castle basement or other enclosed area
>completely fucks up positioning, forces your team to run around it, and even GIVES the boss cover

>ult humanoid or other small boss
>trapped in totem and can't be hit
>if you're really unlucky, the boss will die and the power will be trapped in the totem and unreachable
>most raiders will have increased totem duration, so have fun waiting for it to expire because you can't manually remove it

>>715170729
yeah nah, i'll pass, looks fucking lame

>>715170729
I will only take a Giant Crusher if I am Revenant

>>715168905
>damage buff
>HP and FP heals on hit, for everyone
>relic adds a second damage buff and also lets it proc bleed buffs for the group for a third
It's not flashy and the slow cast sometimes leaves you in a bad spot, but it's an amazing support tool for both offense and recovery.

>>715170978

>>715170864
>>715170907
>>715170964
>dies to an attack the fingerprint wouldve blocked for chip damage
this is why trump won

>>715171057

>>715171128

How is raider if you use him with a shield instead of powerstancing big weapons? Retaliating through telegraphed hits is fine but just trying to iframe or face tank every attack in the game doesn't appeal to me.

Does the affinity damage boost only affect infused weapons or also elemental damage from spells/skills?
Also is it good? Say for a Wylder with a fire claymore, is the physical / fire split about half/half?

>>715170906
>because you can't manually remove it
It's weird that you can't manually end it prematurely like Executor's.

>>715170802
Ghostfire on her Ult is meaningful enough

>>715171513
You're retarded and a blight on your groups. Ghostflame does less than a whirlwind from guardian. Pointless to try to add offence to a defensive ult in the first place even if it actually did damage.

>>715170906
>get a relic that makes you bleed when you ult
>use it at low health
>die
fuck that relic and fuck that power and fuck whoever suggests it

>>715168064
>guardian is bad when you use him poorly!
this seems to be a running theme

>>715171674
>Birdfag chimping out over nothing again
Lmao anon is pissed that Revenant can make her ult better than bird's with a single relic eff (not even considering her summon gets their own damage oriented ult on top of that)

>>715170978
>>715171057
>>715171128
>>715171206
I love shit like this

>>715171863
Bird has a high floor and a low ceiling.

>>715171867
I don't play guardian, just emphasizing how dogshit ghostflame is. All revenant players are retarded. Her ult does no damage outside of ghostflame because the boss moves and the summon misses. The ghostflame itself deadass does less than whirlwind.
You're bad at the game and a net negative on your group.

>>715172081
>I don't play bird but *obvious bird deflection*
Sounds like a skill issue.

>>715167162
I bought it because my 2 irl friends they wanted to do it with seamless coop like base ER
To this day they have not bought it nor have I stepped foot in the dlc (I dont even know how except touch some hand somewhere underground)

>>715172608
Have you never defeated Mohg?

>>715143892 (OP)
>have fun playing character
>win majority of my runs
>causes others to seethe

>>715172081
>deadass
Shut up, ***ger

>>715174138
>win majority of my runs
People hate bird because he doesn't do this.

>>715174138
>win majority of my runs
There's the problem, retard.
You could be winning ALL of them.
t. Raider

>>715174264
If you lose a lot of runs and the bird happens to be there are you sure it's his fault

>>715174351
Mathematically.

>>715174351
If all of my lost runs are also runs where I had to babysit bird then yeah, I'm going to notice a pattern.

>>715174459
There is nothing the bird does that drags others down, what drags down others is a negative mindset and idea that they need to make up for something based on that mindset.

>>715170978
duchess is always cute in comics and fanart for some reason

game is too easy
it's unironically more fun if people take weaker characters or choose non-meta pathing

hey gaijin

we want (you) to come up with a new crass for our new hit gameru elden ring: nightreeigun. what would they look like and what would their playstyles and abilities be??

>>715174835
literally every game is more fun if you don't follow meta shit

>>715174895
Deathknight edgelord scythe user ,spoopy scary skeleton and clown with autocrossbow

>>715174568
>There is nothing the bird does that drags others down,
The game auto-balances around team size. More teammates = higher damage that's required to defeat a boss.
If you, as a member of the team, cannot facilitate enough damage to make up for the increased effective health pool of the boss, you are literally a detriment to your team.
Bird does not deal damage, doesn't do enough to facilitate damage (aggro isn't a robust enough mechanic for tanking to be a viable strategy for keeping the boss off other players), and frankly he's not even that good defensively (only one good defensive option is stamina heavy and loses to command grabs).

>>715174895
Cute priest girl with built in golden retaliation that procs on your own spells like in base ER.

>>715143954
>insists on two mines so they can do the power powerstance meme with two purple weapons
>totem selah spam that protects the boss
>gaol spam
Absolutely not

>>715175493
Not my problem.
Fight harder for me.

>>715174895
Dragon Communion nigga
Good HP and FP, High ARC and some FTH (for the dragon communion seal), low INT, maybe C/B in STR/DEX.
Main weapons: spears (like Vyke).
Starts with off-hand dragon communion-like seal.
Probably like a dragon transformation (but with better stats) art, and uhhhhhh maybe placidusax style dash where you turn into an electrified cloud as a skill? idk

>>715175694
All seals scale purely off faith in Nightreign.

>>715174895
How about actual assassin and not mage shit?

>>715175493
>bird does not deal damage
the damage you get from staggering bosses from guard countering and damage from everyone during crit attacks makes up for this
>only one good defensive option is stamina heavy
it is significantly less stamina draining than regular blocking and slightly less than rolling he also has his ult, for small and medium sized enemies he also has his ability which stops them from attacking completely for a while

>>715174895
Dex/Fth inquisitor that uses whips. Just go full castlevania with it.

>>715175892
>actual assassin
Literally Ironeye
but if you mean the dark souls trope of dex/int assassins, then Duchess

>>715175916
Putting aside the fact that bosses move like schizos and aren't getting got by guard counters often (inb4 MUH TRADES), if bird niggers are so enamored with this option why not use a weapon class that's actually good at it? All birds should be running hammers if they plan to spam guard counter.

>>715176349
issue its that guardcounter are only good to counter attack last combo of enemy given alck of poise/hyperarmor , gaurdian passive should have been infinite poise at guardcounter

>>715176349
like you said the bosses move around a lot so guard countering with hammers is a terrible idea, you guard counter with a halberd heavy attack where you close distance on top of having the long reach of the weapon. trading is absolutely worth it but you need to know when it's worth it. There's a lot to learn with guardian which will expose shitters but like every other class that isn't spam attack the fault is not with the class but the player that can't use their tools

>>715176313
No, I mean an actual assassin. No magic, focuses on attack from behind/backstabs, can carry more throwables, good ARC scaling for bleed/poison, etc. Though I guess Executor and Duchess kind of have those already, so I have no idea how they can make an assassin feel different.

>>715143892 (OP)
What's the reward/benefit from being the absolute best in game? Is it really necessary?

>>715176914
There is none it's all about playing to have fun

>>715176914
Not really. It's easier than most Souls games because everyone except Guardian is stacked with op tools.

>>715174617
She's probably the friendliest Nightfarer. Her being Wylder's sister also helps if the artist isn't leaning into an incest thing.

>>715170674
>Guardian gets a skin where he's a human.
>man from india
>has to occasionally, even in the middle of combat, do an emote to shit or he has massive debuffs
naaaaaaaaaaah

So how am I supposed to use Raider's ultimate? I tried using it on a downed ally to have a safe spot for a revive and they just got stuck inside of it.

>>715177618
Save it to interrupt big attacks (Libra meditation, or red circle attacks from most other Lords), or just plop it down for the damage buff. The damage AoE is bigger than the pillar itself so you don't need to use it right in the boss's face. Using it to bring dying allies up to a safe platform is also a good use, but it tends to be buggy for that purpose around any kind of sloped terrain.

What do you think is the most fun character to play?
I find Recluse to be the best, since finding new spells to play with feels significantly more different than just finding a new melee weapon with an identical moveset.

Guardian is good, you just need the ''reflect dmg while blocking'' relic, that shit should be baseline

>>715143892 (OP)
lmao what a bitch.
>friendless
>whines about "carrying" teammates instead of winning without their help.

You ever just?

>>715178479
Wylder

>>715174895
naked guy with no weapons and the lowest stats in the game, HOWEVER he gets massive item discovery bonuses ,rune aquisition bonuses and high stats at max lvl

>>715143892 (OP)
My only issue with guardian is that you need a damage reflect relic to not be completely useless
Just give it to him by default and change the relic effect to increase the reflect damage
Between the reflect and guard counters guardian can put out some decent damage

>>715178479
Wylder is probably the objective answer because he does everything, but I'm a sucker for Ironeye.

>>715178479
Recluse and Duchess for the same reason as you, spell variety keeps things more interesting.
Wylder for grappling hook mobility.

>>715177618
it has an actual hitbox so you can block projectiles with it

>>715178576
bro your parries?

>>715148408
I've seen niggerk***ht before which was pretty funny. No idea how they evaded the filter

>>715153285
I always carry an aggro+ rite and spam the tornado and pokes to keep the enemy on me. Maneuvering to keep the bad guy between me and my teammates because no one pays attention to spacing in these fucking games. (That's why Raider is so popular)

Why is this game so laggy?

constantly getting hit through, under, over and around the shield is what makes guardian complete fucking misery to play. I'm so sick of it it's actually turned me off the whole game

>>715168075
Vigor +2 is like 10% more HP at 15 and and double at 1. It's worth it on Duchess to smooth out her early game where you're a squishy ass melee

>>715153554
average retard likes to pretend guard counters don't exist and throw their sippy cup against the wall when they can't invalidate the game with a medium shield like it's ds1. guardian being so bad he sandbags the team is a meme. the community swallowed misinfo about blocking getting nerfed in ds3 and still to this day people don't know that a greatshield hard counters consort radahn because they refuse to even try it.

>>715179425
I thought vigor in Nightreign was just +20 health per point

>>715179362
You know what's better than distracting the enemies? Killing them
If all you're doing is distracting them you're a glorified revenant summon, Sebastian could do what you do

Mostly-QoL balance wishlist. I'm happy with the state of the cast as is, but there's a few quirks that could be smoothed out.

Guardian
>Make reflect relic work during shield pokes
>Make charge attack whirlwind relic apply to charged guard counters
>Allow charged guard counters with any weapon during Steel Guard, instead of being halberd specific
>Allow stamina regen during skill. If Raider and Wylder (relic) can have it, Guardian shouldn't have to choose between recovering to guard the next string or plinking for chip damage and aggro
Revenant
>Ult relic atk buff applies to Revenant as well
>Allies revived by ult still receive buffs
Executor
>2h and weapon switch buffs apply to cursed sword
>cursed sword doesn't undo 2h on your regular loadout
Raider
>speed up unique moveset for greataxe and greathammer
>improve consistency of Totem Stela raising things into the air, forcibly push anything stuck inside out of it

>>715174895
perfumer with unnerfed rolling sparks

>>715149350
>>715150986
At least make it so using Steel Guard pulls aggro

>>715179564
Hiding behind greatshields and poking with thrusting weapons was well known in ER long before the DLC. The reason people didn't use it isn't because of muh community, it's because it's fucking BORING.

>>715179417
Personally I hate that little hop he does whenever you activate steel guard, it often puts you in a position where you're no longer facing the boss and just get hit from the side

>>715179564
What's the value of guard countering with a halberd? It deals less damage and less stance damage than a simple jump attack from raider
A jumping power-stance colossal hammer attack does 33 guard break, a halberd guard counter does 30
Jumping attacks are also faster and don't require you to block an attack, so even raider's other weapons will do more stance dps than a guardian's guard counter
So what the fuck is the point of guardian?

>>715180146
These numbers don't apply because Guardian has a unique moveset with halberds and charge his guard counters

>>715180278
can charge*
I accidentally a word

>>715180278
Proofs?
And a charged guard counter takes even longer, so the raider is out stance damageing you even harder
There's is literally no point to guardian, he does nothing useful that other classes don't do better

>>715175608
all optimal btw you just jelly your character sucks

>>715163265
Don't block the combo. Just weigh in at the end of it.

>Everdark Adel
WHY?!? Now I'm both scared and excited for Everdark Libra

>>715180697
Everdark Gladius will split twice and you will have to fight 9 of them at once.

>>715167434
>Guardian apologists
The fuck is wrong with you retards. Gotta admit, I'm taken aback at the amount of vitriol by shitters in this thread. I cycle through every character because I enjoy how each one has different strengths and weaknesses.
One time I even clutched with summons as the loli by spawning and de-spawning through enemy attacks. It's fun to try and get creative with each kit. DPS be damned. I've carried shitter wylders and raiders with Guardian by saving my ult and poking just to have it refilled just when they get downed again because they just spam jump attacks.

>>715180697
I'm betting he will force you to take a deal to start the fight

>>715143954
The only successful single-class runs I've ever been on have been Raider-only.

>>715181181
>One time I even clutched with summons as the loli by playing her as she was meant to be played

>>715181181
Its /v/ anon, they'll blame everyone but themselves, and since guardian is at the bottom of all those epic youtube tier lists, then that what's the losers here parrot.
>We didn't die because I was shit, the problem was the guardian

>>715177602
>SAR DO NOT REDEEM DE GUARD COUNTER

>the guardian is useless
>who even needs defence if you just never get hit!
>now look at my high dps while I never get hit because I'm totally a pro at this game!
>*gets hits once and dies because of shit defence*
Every fucking time. And then I have to revive you!

>>715181726
No retard, it's the problem with all block tanks in a game where damage is king
Games like Vermintide and Helldivers have the same problem, if basically all you're doing is blocking you're not actually contributing enough to pull your own weight

>>715180405
Charged counter hits multiple times so it taking longer doesn't really matter, the real issue with it is it takes way too much stamina

>>715143892 (OP)
Guardian was the only class I gave a fuck about in the previews. I'm glad I keep seeing threads like this pop up because it justifies my refund, every time.

Fuck this piece of dogshit trash garbage "video game". And fuck any assfaggot retard that shills it.

>>715181907
You realize you're telling on yourself with this, right? If you're playing guardian and your teammates are still always dying across multiple games, if this is happening consistently enough for you to complain about it, you're sandbagging. You're not even drawing aggro enough to protect le heckin flock
At that point what role are you even filling? Being the last man standing has no inherent value if you can't actually do anything when it's just you

>>715181726
Nice victim complex

>guardian still worthless

I see the game is still shit. Glad I'm not ever buying it.

>>715181987
Just like nightreign, foot knight and ironbreaker are only bad in the hands of shitters

They should add more clothes for the characters.

They should fucking kill themselves.

>>715182946
Footknight is and was always great, ironbreaker was useless until they gave him the torpedo and even then engineer uses it better
But at least ironbreaker can enable a shitter to carry a grim, there are no grims in Nightreign

In the end, shitters complaining about guardian mean nothing since I only play with friends anyways and once I close this tab all of your retarded posts will fade away.

>play guardian
>carry
>also soloed every boss with kino Chad birdman
Skill issue

>>715174895
Armoured Knight girl that uses dual longswords or longsword and shield
Spear nigga
A Page

>>715183646
solo is easy mode

>>715182671
Maybe you should actually stay behind me instead of running forward to get your le epic DPS moments?
The night bosses/lords aren't on a timer. Don't be some Unga Bunga retard. A tank can't protect you if you never let go or retreat. If you keep on attacking non-stop, no tank can do anything for you.

It's funny how birdfags cry and shit themselves over negative opinions about their bad class, as if their entire identity revolves around it.

>>715184138
Birdhaters are the ones who're overreacting. Sometimes even plain up leaving the match as it starts because they saw a bird.

>>715183646
Solo is too easy. When you have to carry two shitters who cause the boss's HP pool to bloat with your shitty trio player scaled damage it becomes hard as fuck playing the Bird

>>715174895
Weapon Master
Quality build with a focus on weapon arts
Regains some FP off of weapon art use, like how recluse regains FP off of casting

Cleric
Strength/Faith with axe and hammer focus
Martyr passive lets him deal more damage with low health

Perfumer
Focuses on perfuming arts and team buffs
Stores materials from dead enemies like how Recluse stores her magic cocktail, when the materials are full you get a free wondrous physic based on the elemental affinity and strength of the dead enemies

>>715184018
Everything else IS on a timer though and you're not going to complete your routes if you play like that at any other time

>>715184620
Outside of the night bosses/lords, I'm doing guard counters and trading charged blows, which the Guardian can do the best of the entire group with his inflated HP and Stamina pools.
The stance-damage is genuinely above average even the regular damage might be below average. Even the block-reflect deals stance damage and can cripple bosses when they try to do multi-hit moves.

Guardian would be a real class given the following:
>his passive is an actual passive, not some awkward stance you have to clunkily hop into, and which slows you to a hilarious crawl
>the attention-drawing relic mod actually does something, seriously, I swear I actually get targeted less by enemies whenever I have it on, it's fucking retarded
>bosses don't fly all over the map like the spastic retards they are, so your defensive frog waddle doesn't render you worthless, and your mono-directional defense isn't constantly bypassed due to constant crack-speed repositioning
>boss attacks don't constantly cause you huge knockback even through your waddle-stance, and bosses don't immediately disengage 60 feet after every hit, allowing your juicy guard counters to actually hit something
>half his mandatory relic mods are just baked into the class (taunt on block, damage reflect, ult charge on block)
But since none of these are true, Guardian is just a class that's barely okay at dealing with the shittier field bosses and random trash, and completely worthless against real bosses, save for their ult. Which is a shame, because bird dude with halberd is a winning aesthetic.

>>715174895
Cute priestess who gets big buffs for all Golden/Erdtree incantations so that cool slow star actually does some kind of damage and maybe a relic that makes defense and healing incantations also apply the other. Probably specializes in maces and flails.
Lancer with their skill being a special lance charge that changes depending on if two handing a lance or wielding with a shield.
I'd like a great bow user so there's a point of a bow beyond Ironeye with a Barrage bow but I'm just a sucker for huge bows/crossbows and ballista-like weaponry. Maybe a special kind of siege crossbow but as a quicker windlass or something.

>>715184963
>which the Guardian can do the best of the entire group with his inflated HP
You're not getting the poise and damage negation that raider is getting if you're trading with halbreds

>>715184970
Guardian does fine against the majority field and night bosses, he's just very awkward against the nightlords other than Fulghor and Heolstor

>>715185508
He's awkward when being on top of your game matters most. That alone kind of disqualifies him as a class.
>Guardian does fine against the majority field and night bosses
"Fine" is a low bar. He's pretty bad against a disappointing number of them, very few are susceptible to his guard counters because they either cause massive knockback, stamina drain, or constantly dodge and disengage, and he just can not hold aggro to begin with to save his life. He's outdamaged by every other class, so he can't even really profit off not being attacked, his skill is worthless against anything that matters, he's just in an overall absolutely abysmal state.

>>715181907
but what if I facetank the hit and it's just 5% of my health and I get it back instantly while also shitting out constant damage?

>Default Knight guy is the most fun, the second strongest, and gets the best storyline
How is this fair? How am I supposed to play anyone else?

>>715178479
I like Wylder, Ironyeye, Duchess, Recluse, and Raider a lot. Of that list, Recluse and Duchess only have fun if my team is competent, because they're so RNG-needy when it comes to spells. Give me a Carian Queen staff on either of them and everything after level 10 becomes a disco, but deny me good spells and they're miserable.

>>715182774
You seethe because I'm right.
Typical shitter.

>>715180278
Charged guard counter does more damage and the movement is useful, but it adds nothing to stance breaking. 65 poise Fire Monk is as close as you can get to two halberd guard counters missing a stagger, and charging them doesn't make a difference.

Recluse is the most dependent on weapon drops because of sorcery rng
Revenant can coast off her default and summons until she gets seals
Duchess can be the mage or bow in offhand since dagger requires too much relic commitment to build around

>>715186612
recluse is somehow rng dependant despite being able to use any spell in the game while duchess isn't?

>>715186042
It's wild how the two charges on grappling hook immediately make this game bearable. Boss once again does a backhop that takes him into a different zip code? Any other melee class and I would want to kill myself, but now I can just grapple to that sucker and get a free weapon buff in the bargain. I genuinely can't go back to playing another pure melee class.

>>715186873
nta but Recluse gets arguably the most useful starting weapon plus summons scale really well in the early game. She has plenty of time to find upgrades unlike Duchess who's start is relatively pretty rough.

>>715143954
I've seen no bigger sign of shitters than picking raider

>>715187608
Real shitters pick Ironeye. And even on a bad player, Raider's basic functionality is just so good that he'll provide some use no matter what.

>>715186612
>Recluse is the most dependent on weapon drops because of sorcery rng
This is complete nonsense, she has infinite FP and has the same amount of FTH as Revenant does. She can use viably use any sorcery/incantation because she has the highest INT and FTH in the game. Even only focusing on sorceries, it's very common to see boss killers like this in a run:

>Comet
>Carian sword sorceries
>Gravity Well
>Rock Sling
>Shattering Crystal
>Rock Blaster
>Stars of Ruin
>Rancorcall

>>715187608
>>715187760
The only real shitter magnet that you can really feel when they're bad is bird.

>>715186612
>dagger requires too much relic commitment to build around
Is Duchess not very good without a heavy investment then?

>>715187496
>summons scale really well in the early game
Do they really? They seem to just die instantly even to the demihuman bosses when I tried messing around in solo.

>>715187482
Two grapples also means you can do whatever the fuck you want in the rain and be fine

>>715188065
Bird is just subpar sadly so you need a good player (and relics) to make him work

>>715188065
Bird is just bad no matter the player. His kit, his playstyle, the way it doesn't mesh at all with what the game is like, everything about bird is just off-kilter and doesn't work well.

>>715180005
Theres literally a relic that does this

>>715143892 (OP)
>complaining at all what your teammates pick
the game is so easy if youre actually hitting points of interest consistently it doesnt matter

>>715188681
The relic absolutely doesn't fucking work at all. I will play Guardian, park my ass in front of the boss with the relic, block-poke him all fucking day, and maybe get directly attacked once or twice, while the boss keeps chasing the Revenant around the arena.

>>715188489
I mean you can win with anyone, this isn't a terribly hard game.
Bird ally specifically just means it's probably going to be an annoying run.

>>715188964
It can't be helped, niggas would rather fight bell bearing hunter at level 3 than pick up a less likely to be targeted weapon

>>715189238
A class also shouldn't require the rest of the team to pick up weapons they normally have little reason to care about, just to support its awkward as fuck play style.

>>715189238
>Bird niggas try to go 5 minutes without bitching about their team (IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE)

>>715189429
even if you don't have a guardian a recluse should have less likely to be targeted
>b-but my 5% charged spell damage!
doesn't matter when you're dodging attacks instead of casting

>>715170020
Fucking finally
At least one said it
Bird Up

>>715188716
That's why people say guardian is overdependent on relics
Because if you absolutely need that, plus reflect damage on block, plus heal on ult, plus increased duration for whirlwind, plus extra damage per gaol, plus start with stonesword key
If you don't have all of those at the bare minimum you're throwing
Witch's broach and the yellow gaol+key relic can give you four of those 6, but there's no way to guarantee all 6 of them unless you cheat
And even then there's a ton of other relics like night of the champion that would be good for guardian if only you had the relic slots for it, but you never do
No other character needs this many relics bare minimum, and all that just to still be worse at tanking than a skilled executioner or revenant

>>715188681
Aggro is influenced more heavily by how many times you hit an enemy than the aggro on block relic effect. A fully charged enhanced whirlwind does more for keeping aggro than the blocking relic. This is why Ironeye is constantly getting targeted no matter what you do and Revenant's skeleton will instantly die the moment it starts roaring.

played a game with 3bird once

>>715189892
The skeleton dying doesn't matter, a player dying does

>>715189949
how did you beat the nightlord at level 8

>>715190059
zhe said zhe played it, zhe didn't say zhey won

Wylder and Duchess are the only characters I really enjoy playing it seems. The others are too gimmicky or finicky for me.
But I'm not sure what you're aiming for when playing the cute european lady, or the best ways to use her ultimate skill.

>>715190024
That's not the point, I'm trying to say the aggro on block relic effect is inconsistent and useless. If you're not playing solo, others will rip aggro off you regardless of whether you have it equipped.

I play Duchess the most but I wish her ultimate was a big attack like Wylder

My friends are TURBO shitters so having the big boom is a nice safety net

>>715143892 (OP)
based, fuck birdniggers

>>715190059
>>715190164
we in fact died to ultrablack adel with 20% health left

one guy was also still doing his bird remembrance quest

>>715143892 (OP)
>not one mention of the actual problem
Executor takes 0 damage from parrying
Guardian takes damage from every block

Its beyond retarded. Executor can parry forever while Guardian will die to chip damage, and yet their abilities are otherwise identical.

>>715190838
ive won with 3x guardian on hardmode, though not adel hardmode
that being said, it was a slog and every boss took 2x as long compared to picking other classes

>>715190838
>3bird
>against the guy who only has 2 moves, charge 2 miles away and command grab
why do you hate yourself

>>715191021
>>715191114
the other two guys were already locked into bird so i had to join in

>>715190909
That's not even the real issue.
Executor is incredibly stamina efficient.
Guardian loses a chunk of stamina the moment he goes into guard mode, and only loses more steadily.

>>715190909
You forgot to mention that Executor's passive is useless if you don't have Seppuku, his stance has the exact same problem as Guardian because he moves slow as shit and is only useful if the boss is targeting him, and his ult doesn't instantly raise 3 bar teammates and make them invincible while also being vulnerable to stagger.

>>715189949
>>715190059
>>715190838
>>715191275
What would the strongest x3 class be?
Maybe Raider, for all the stunlocking spam?
Maybe Wylder because you could just zip around the map way faster than anyone else? Imagine 3 Wylders with double grapples clearing the whole map
I feel like Revenant and Duchess would be worse than Guardian, because of the starlight shards
Ironeye and Recluse really need someone in front of them

>>715191608
Triple Raider would be best I think

>>715191608
i've played with 3wylder, 3bird, 3raider, 3ironeye, and 3executor so far

3raider was by the far the most broken due to the infinite stagger

>>715191743
Triple raider is how I beat the game.

>>715191608
i've done triple raider and it was boring ez mode

How viable is not thinking, anons? If I just follow the other players and grab whatever comes my way, will I have a decent success rate? Or do you actually have to target specific things for individual characters? I'm good at actually fighting, but terrible at everything else.

>Duchess
Is putting bleed and frozen mist on her starting dagger the only way to have a meaningful melee presence as Duchess? Most of the time I find I use my melee only to get my FP back so I can go back to spamming spells, and then I'm just kind of a worse Recluse.

>>715192035
you'll be guy #3 in every game i have where, even if i afk the first two minutes, i still end up being the dude pinging everything

just prioritize the castle and/or the shifting earth event on day 2 and you'll be fine

I just play with friends so I can play whoever I want.

>>715192035
Just play as Wylder, or Ironeye if you can at least understand "Bow and passives that buff Bow = good"

>>715192035
You pretty quickly learn what's best for your character. Pick an easy one to understand like Raider or Ironeye

>>715192107
>meaningful melee presence
"Chain attack finishers trigger restage on nearby enemies" relic turns your dagger into a blender.

>it's another "the night boss spawns in the furthest corner of the map, on the half of the map you spent day 1 clearing" episode

>>715192035
It's fine if you're not doing Everdark, but you will inevitably lag behind a bit

>>715191608
In general it's 3x Raider, but I think in terms of raw damage it would be 3x Recluse with Stars of Ruin/Ancient Death Rancor/Rennala/Ranni's Moon or 3x Revenant with Flame of Frenzy/Burn O Flame/Ancient Dragon's Lightning Strike depending on the nightlord.

>>715192668
Also forgot to mention Wrath of Gold, Elden Stars, and Triple Rings of Light for bosses weak to holy.

>>715147234
Work on your movement lil'bro

>>715143892 (OP)
OP is a shitter.

Anyway, birdbro is undercooked, a Katanna should not out-perform a Greatshield in this scenario.

>>715192823
Is triple rings actually good in this game? It was ass for its fp cost in base ER

>>715193856
>fp cost
Not really too much of an issue on a good run, even moreso with Recluse.

>>715193856
FP is only an issue during the regular days. Red bosses, bosses at the end of each day, and the castle are when you may need to be conservative and use something like a Wraith Calling Bell or FP efficient spells. Generally you should save Starlight Shards for nightlords, 4-6 should be enough to last the whole fight unless you're spamming something really FP inefficient like dragon breath.

>>715192668
imagine how many starlight shards 3x revenant would need

>average birdGOD expedition

>>715194809
>dragon breath
is that shit good, like ever? got it once and did mediocre damage while raping my fp bar

>>715191608
Raider and it's not even close

>>715192668
Raw damage should be 3x Recluse with Burn O Flame regardless of boss weakness. The damage on that spell is unreal, and it synergizes well with the HP/FP recovery on her ult.

>>715143954
skill issue

>>715195014
Rot breath can be good because none of the nightlords are immune to it and most enemies aren't either. Greyoll's Roar and Dragonmaw are pretty good dragon incantations, but they're not breath attacks.
>>715195173
I like the Flame of Frenzy better, it's much more consistent if you aim it at the ground and still does a fuckload of damage. Burn O Flame is great if the boss is really big, but good luck hitting something like Gnoster with it.

>>715155483
Please understand, Fromsoft never thinks deeply about anything. Everything they do only had surface level thoughs put in it, they just happened on a good formula and repeatedly prove they barely understand it.

>>715192561

>>715193856
free cast it at ground near the boss and watch all 3 blender them

>>715194941
less than you think
this run was really fun

>>715197070
i forgot to add the other 2 are randoms and we just happened to all be running the friede skin

pure kino

>>715192561
>its another "get 10 bleed weapons and buffs when bleed is nearby" but the boss is immune to bleed episode

>>715192561
>>715197390
>its another "i see wylder using moonveil and rivers of blood while im stuck with some blue thrusting sword as executor" episode

>>715192561
>it's another "every field boss is gargoyles, draconic sentinels, death rite birds, and bell bearing hunters" episode

>>715195991
Flame of Frenzy's more consistent if you don't have to worry about being interrupted and have boluses or some other fallback for the madness buildup. Burn O Flame low profiles a ton of attacks with a faster startup, continues on its own even if you're hit (and rallies the health back), and outperforms most other fire spells with just two pillars hitting, let alone the whole spread. You get significantly more against fat fucks of course, but even humanoids typically eat 2-4 if launched by it, or if moving through it.
Gnoster's a weird edge case and I don't have much experience against the moth specifically. Burn O Flame puts in work still when it's low to the ground, but I'd imagine when it's at heights the pillars don't reach it'd be preferable to use Black Flame, Frenzied Burst, or non-fire projectiles at that point.

>>715189949
lmao 3bird
3bird!

>>715197620
If you hoard items better used by someone else, or pass on a legendary game changer item that a teammate could use in favor of some shitty stat boost, I hope your balls rot off.

>>715191608
Triple Wylder
Literally all you need are three siscons

>>715192561
>it's another raid event where I have to waste 5+ minutes of the run chasing down or fighting one of the mini nightlords for a mid passive buff

>>715170729
Never seen it drop in 100 hours.

>>715193856
High damage, reliably hits even slippery spastic enemies, and perhaps most notably the AoE is gigantic. It speeds up banished knight and troll castles considerably, clusterfuck evergaols like farum azula beastmen melt in a couple R2s, any room with a pile of enemies is one button for 7k+ runes.

>>715196958
You only get 2 hits that way, there's a rehit rate. Best you can do is cast at an angle where one disk stops near you and one flies off, then you get 3 hits.

>>715192107
Pick up any other dex or int weapon, you aren't forced to run a dagger.
>but the restage finish-
Sorceries, katanas, curved swords, twinblades, Elden Stars, etc. are a better use of your time than trying to chain dagger combos. If you're using Black Blade or Reduvia, L2 is also a better use of your time. If you want more restages, use skill cooldown reduction instead.