why dont most fantasy rpgs allow you to play as a dark mage, warlock or just use dark magic at all?
its always the classical elemental spells like fire and lightning but never dark?

What even is dark? Just a fireball recolored to be gray and spooky?

>>715315734
Yeah? Or a spectral Scythe that steals life. Or a swarm of bugs that bleed. Or a dark fog that poisons.

>>715314575 (OP)
Because most of the time they'll just file those abilities under Necromancy and they'll be covered.

>>715314575 (OP)
Because 99% of the time devs think 'le hecking life drain or le hecking dark magic means you must be evil lol'

>>715315734
I like how Dark Souls 3 handles it, Dark Sorcery has a lot more weight to it than regular sorcery (starts slow before accelerating, has a heavier impact and deals more stamina damage when it hits).
You can also just go Pyromancy and get a literal fireball recolored to be black/white and spooky if you want that instead.

>>715316170
Chance are they'll only be npc or enemy only spells.

>>715314575 (OP)
Dark or evil is usually covered by debuffs or other effects, otherwise you're just tossing black fireballs.

>>715316647
The dark pyromancy spells are real nice because against enemies with high fire resi or just straight up immunity it deals dark damage and bypasses them.

>>715316772
You could also give then unique effects that wouldn't make sense with fire spells like dealing dark damage instead of fire damage or physical damage or deal stamina damage.
Either way they animations should be different enough to warrant them. Like Dark Storm, Pursuers/Affinity and Dark Hail/Bead.

>NO DARK MAGIC CAN'T JUST BE A BLACK FIREBA-
*THUNK*

>>715316854
I actually did just do a Pyromancy run of DaS3 recently, it was really nice being able to just switch to dark damage when the situation called for it.

>>715317098
>or physical damage
Love how that quirk in DaS1 gave you a reason to use staffs with physical stat scaling just to get a small boost to the physical component of dark spells.

>you can summon meme skulls in elden ring and skellies
Shame that out of all the assets fromsoft reuses they never reused dark spells. If only we could get all of ds2and 3s dark spells along with elden rings death spells.

>>715316580
Probably this desu. Took a while for playable dark mages in fe to be a thing.

>>715317142
i remember this spell being kinda shit for how absolutely sick it looks

I hope the healing spells these guys use becomes accessible to players in future games. If it had negative poise so that you could get disrupted; I think it could be balanced enough. Would also fit as a dark spell

>>715318620
It does solid damage and could trip up people with how slow it starts but speeds up.

>>715316580
>devs think 'le hecking life drain or le hecking dark magic means you must be evil lol'
a reasonable assumption

>>715318620
It's genuinely a really good spell. Great damage scaling with a dedicated dark staff, slow speed makes it tricky to roll through and can set up roll punishes.
The issue is that you get it at the start of a DLC that's incredibly hostile to dark builds, outside of the twin demons damn near everything heavily resists dark. Outside of the DLC it's phenomenal.

>>715318184
The Death spells were very clearly meant to be the successors to dark spells, but the shit damage makes them a lot less fun.

>>715314575 (OP)
they fear giving the player unlimited power

>>715314575 (OP)
>why dont most fantasy rpgs allow you to play as a dark mage, warlock or just use dark magic at all?
This never happened. Warlocks, necromancers etc. have been represented in fantasy RPGs since the beginning.

>>715319143
death/ghostflame was my most anticipated magic school after seeing people post Helphen's Steeple and none of it is that good. my death knight just became a moon warrior.

>>715319143
The putrid spells (literally only2) are solid. Spectral rings of light also doesn't get boosted by Prince of Death's staff

>>715319398
DLC fixed it a bit at least. Both Putrescence spells are decent (even if Mass can be awkward to use sometimes). Wish Rings was a better spell but you take what you can get.
>None of them benefit from Prince of Death staff
Fucking why Fromsoft?

>The most fun spells in Elden Ring are actually weapon arts

>>715319943
>>715319143
>family heads weapon art does more damage than ancient death rancor AND scales with only one stat AND doesn't need to be charged to outdamage its spell counterpart.
>the axe with tibial summons is the exact same thing

>>715315984
>>715314575 (OP)
elden ring literally has dark magic, though. spells that summon the dead, blood magic, spells that summon bugs/pestilence, as well as (i would count) all the gravity magic spells. not to mention an actual spell named "darkness".

>>715320230
Golden Order has the same issue, every ring spell gets absolutely mogged by Halo Scythe.

>>715320393
>elden ring literally has dark magic
*kind of
The death spells are mostly shit, the blood magic is mixed, gravity magic is absolutely not darkness themed, and the literal darkness spell is a smokescreen.

>>715320516
>no not like that!

>>715320579
Exactly, give me the fun dark spells from DaS3.

>>715314575 (OP)
What they should have done is add in more stealth abilities and make backstabs less glitchy so that I could LARP as my world of warcraft rogue in PVP

>>715320624
I wish we could have ds2 hexes and ds3 dark spells along with elden rings meme skulls all in one game

>>715320516
>>715320624
you literally cited "bug swarms" as a "dark spell". elden ring has that. it also has spells that summon the dead or shoot skulls. that's pretty "dark magic/necromancer" flavoured. you cited poison cloud spells, elden ring has that. just because it isn't exactly what you want, does not mean they don't have it. which is the premise of this thread, pretending like dark magic not possible. it is possible. you might not like the balancing, you might not like the exact spells they have, but it is possible.

There's the necromancer in Diablo 2. He has debilitating curses (debuffs) and poison (damage over time/anti-regen) spells. He can also use enemy corpses as bombs. Other spells are summons or basically recolored fireballs and such.
Lineage 2 had a necromancer too.
What is a dark spell you'd like to see that has barely seen any use in games?

>The best way to get big long ranged magical attacks is with melee weapons
>The strongest close range damage is via a spell that turns your staff into a small magical sword
What did From mean by this?

>>715320774
Assassin Gambit has rare uses but concealing veil is alright.
The transparency of ass gambit and Unseen form have been nerfed compared to their souls games counter part. Probably because of the open world factor. The same thing with the invisibility range of the concealing veil compared to obscuring ring.

I'll forever miss the ring of fog from ds1... my beloved...

>>715320915
>/v/ is one person
Anyway strictly speaking the blood stuff is framed as something else and is mostly meant for pure faith.

>>715314575 (OP)
OP never played C-RPGs and it shows

>>715320915
>>715320915
That was me.
Also yeah. I will bitch about the nerfs.
Dorhys gnawing>>>> swarm of flies
Dark fog >>>> poison mist
Affinity/Pursuers>>>> omen wraiths

>meme skulls
Alright you got me. But they still suck damage wise.
Also
Great Soul Dregs, Lifehunt Scythe, Dark Storm, Climax, Dark Edge>>>> Literally everything in elden ring

>>715321624
bad balance does not equal not possible, you gigantic faggot.

>>715322274
I never said it wasn't possible in elden ring, you gigantic retard.

>>715321624
I wish that with how many runes that are available in Elden Ring that they had some kind of successor to the DS2 spells that cost souls to cast.

>>715315734
Gravity magic