Thread 715349720

but why's that when the gameplay itself's nothing remarkable?
No special interactivity or great new systems
just serviceable gameplay.
I've got the same gripe with GOW2018 and TLOU

Story's important, but it shouldn't be at the forefront

Weak bait

>>715349794
What's the bait, I am genuinely upset at the current state of gaming
If it could've been a tv show or movie they should've done that instead of making a video game

>>715349720 (OP)
>Confusing good combat with good gameplay
Sometimes the non-combat elements of a game are what make the gameplay.

>>715349919
(You)

The game is fun. Muh innovation is a meme.

The story was written by an actual redditor, and people are praising it
Weird times

>>715349720 (OP)
You can say this about a ton of /v/ goats, from literally all RPGs, FPS games, and all shit like Silent Hill/Metal Gear Solid.

>>715349928
Name 5

>>715350114
There's difference Between interesting story intertwined with good gameplay
But it bulk of the praise is just About the story and gameplay is mentioned in passing then it's a problem

>>715350119
Any Silent Hill, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Souls, SMT, Persona, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, CRPG, JRPG, survival game, etc.

>>715349720 (OP)
so many people lack the words to describe what is it about this game that actually makes it good.
if you single out the parts, everything but the music and art direction are mediocre at best.
but the point is that games come in a package, and clair obcure's package is highly synergestic with the core identity as a westernized jrpg. it's like using a good tool or firing a satisfying rifle, it just "feels right". it's good because it's....good.

>why's that when the gameplay itself's nothing remarkable
because gamer goypigs were starved for something nu and shiny so they latched on to this ugly, boring UE5 slop like their pathetic lives depended on it.
the extensive shill campaign probably helped with the brainwashing, too.

>>715349928
but there is no gameplay outside the combat besides running around picking up luminas

>>715350225
Those games have shit gameplay and are praised for mostly story, atmosphere, etc. Why aren't you posting about them?

>>715350345
>>715350225
Ideas should be expressed through gameplay not through cutscenes

>>715350225
This is the one and only (You) you're getting from me but just in case you're not baiting and are a legit retard: The gameplay is also really good. In the turn-based jrpg space is basically the new standard as far as I'm concerned and going back even to something like Metaphor, which is like a year old feels like a huge step back in time. The reason the gameplay is not brought up as much as some other aspects (although the gameplay has definitely also been praised) is because that's what most stick in people's minds after playing it because it's so great and impressive. It's like saying New Vegas is a bad game or shouldn't be considered among the greats of its kind because most of the discussion is abut the characters and choices you make in the game.

>>715350345
>Any shit, Final Fantasy (doesn't belong here LMFAO), shit, shit, shit, shit, Fallout (the isometric ones probably filtered you), shit, CRPG (kys retard), 99% shit, shit, etc.
the pattern here I'm seeing is that you play a lot of shit and are retarded, so (you) also like and defend Stale Manur. everything checks out

>>715350710
what do you play? do you mash against dummies in dmc or play trash like nioh/ng?

>>715350537
why?

>>715351226
Just because alright? Otherwise my autistic mind can't take it

>>715351226
>>715351428
because it's a video "game"
medium should be used correctly

>>715349720 (OP)
because parry systems successfully trick people into thinking they're doing something skillful when it's one of the most shallow mechanics that exists.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that action games WILL die if developers don't get over their obsession with such an easy to implement, yet shallow mechanic and start implementing thoughtful combat design again. But it's difficult to pull away from when it's so easy to manipulate players into thinking they're playing a good action game by including them.

>>715351614
You do know that even tabletop games have "non-gameplay" exposition, right? Setting up the context for your actions is part of the "game"

>>715351632
Why do cat posters consistently have the worst takes?

This was my first time playing a game with combat like this and i loved it. And i don't mean turn-based alone, but the whole dodging/parrying mechanic + all the spells and abilities were fun as fuck to cast and to look at.

Also i remember looking at the credits and basically all the character animators were Korean, and it shows. The moves the characters were doing when using their abilities were flashy and cool as fuck. Especially Verso's and Maelle's

>>715351930
It's the toxo gondi speaking. The humans underneath are long gone.

>>715349720 (OP)
Die unloved.

>>715349720 (OP)
kys brown

>>715351930
it's an objective reality that parries are a shallow mechanic. it's not some take or subjective thing. it's empirical.
let me ask you this. what is "depth"? depth is when if someone asks you what to do in a situation, the answer is "well, it depends". when the combination of inputs and consequences is complex enough that you can only really give someone a general strategy to deal with a problem, then that is depth. now, what is a parry? a parry, in most games, is a mechanic that serves as the answer to EVERYTHING, and this is especially true in expedition 33. no matter what question you ask, the quickest, most precise and most effective answer is: parry it. press the singular button at the correct time. and no matter the timing associated with that action, it will always be a shallow interaction. and most games adopt this style of parry nowadays.

>>715350112
Reddit is a style of writing. E33 is earnest melodrama, which is very anti-Reddit in philosophy.

>>715351632
I do think it’s strange how people treat parrying as if it’s something new when it’s been in action games and action RPGs since DMC and Kingdom Hearts.

I feel Sekiro’s parry system isn’t what a true parry is anyway. A parry is supposed to be a well timed technique that gives you a free follow up if done successfully, whereas in Sekiro (the parry system everyone likes to copy) parry is just a block button that fills up a meter until you can do massive damage. It’s very “gamey”.

>>715352191
>earnest melodrama
It's pure netflix slop except it rips off other JRPGs instead of TV and novels. It's incredibly pretentious.

>>715349720 (OP)
It literally has the best turnbased combat system in gaming. What the fuck are you talking about?

>>715352000
No wonder I fucking hated them, gooks have no sense of cool whatsoever.

>>715352167
Parrying in games would be way better if they went back to only letting you parry some things, but not everything. Parrying a melee attack is fair, but it’s extremely silly that you can parry a massive magic spell.

I blame Sekiro for pushing this “you can parry literally everything” idea.

>>715352167
>most effective answer is: parry it.
Most effective answer is: one shot it

>>715349720 (OP)
Alright man. We're about half way through 2025. What's your GotY pick then? Lay it out for us.

normals don't like videogames, they like netflix. interactive movies are the best 'games' to them.

>>715352497
You literally can not parry literally everything in Sekiro

>>715352445
Metropolis mogs this normalfag garbage.

>Game of the year
To who, the marketers and shills? Its reception is is inorganic as Witcher 3's, BG3's and Wukong's was: all noise, no substance.

>>715352167
you aren't going to convince them, i'm afraid. they're convinced that they are 'good at games' because they are able to press one button at the right time.

>>715351632
First off, a timed button press, even if it is not an especially deep skill, is still a skill to be honed.

But more importantly, you start talking about "thoughtful combat design" but guess what? The people have spoken. That shit doesn't resonate. You know what resonates? Fucking parrying. I'm sure you've got some niche indie game with combat that's so deep and thoughtful and guess what - there's a reason no one gives a shit about your favorite game. Because its combat sucks ass. You've mistaken complexity for quality.

>>715351856
tabletops games also have great amount of interactivity and systems

>>715352497
Monster Hunter Wilds is a massive dud overall, but I think offset attacks are a great implementation. (unfortunately the game has regular parries too)
basically, the enemies have large windups, and so does your offset attack, but you actually have to hit the part of the enemy that's going to have a hitbox in order to trigger the offset. and while you get to avoid damage, spamming it won't topple the enemy over and over again.

>>715352580
>interactive netflix series
>parry slop
>no anime art style to make me uncomfortable
Yep, this is real gaming

>>715352547
KCD2

>>715352598
Anything you can’t parry can be Mikiri countered (which is arguably a type of parry), or jumped over. It’s still the same kind of Simon says solution where an attack only has one or two viable counters.

I like Sekiro, but even it has a problem where parrying is the objectively correct solution to everything to the point that all the tools you’re given are useless in comparison.

Expedition 33 has a similar problem where once you learn parry timings, dodges and defense builds become worthless.

>>715352857
but bro, i can't brag about liking this to my coworkers over the water cooler! it can't be goty...

>>715352778
>First off, a timed button press, even if it is not an especially deep skill, is still a skill to be honed.
this isn't true. especially with the timings in nowadays games, parrying one attack doesn't mean you get some sort of legacy skill that carries over to the next attack. you have to learn all the timings individually. I think expedition 33 does something that's arguably worse, where everything is actually easy to parry the first time, but only if you stop looking at the animations and instead just listen for the sound cues

>>715352693
No, every gamer agrees it's GOTY. Even here most people agree.

>>715349720 (OP)
I like the gameplay too.

This game seriously upset the transcord, it's gonna be hilarious watching them melt down when it wins goty.

>>715352857
>Poster with dogshit opinions like a mediocre oblivion clone
Really I should have predicted this.

>>715349919
name 3 videogames with remarkable gameplay, special interactivity or great new systems

>>715352927
Skill issue.

>>715349720 (OP)
Clea is best girl

>>715352927
E33 also has many enemy attacks with party timings designed to throw you off. You can’t parry every attack without a ton of trial and error.

>>715351614
That is not a reason why. The use of the medium isn't decided by you. As long as games sell a lot of copies and are popular, they're using the medium correctly

>>715353289
actually, you can, but only if you use the sound cues. they're always, without fail completely consistent. the animations only exist to trick you. I'm still not sure whether I would just outright call this dishonest game design. i don't really think the developers were aware what the implications were when they decided to do it this way.

>>715350518
well exploration is part of the gameplay, so is gathering the pictos / luminas, leveling them up, the sidequests. It's all part of it.
You could say the same about any souls like. "There is no gameplay outside the combat besides running around gathering souls"

>>715353603
mario 64 is a game about touching stars

>>715352987
>mediocre oblivion clone
you clearly havent played the game

>>715352949
>every gamer
Every shill and impressionable dotard, maybe. Your linear "cinematic" soup of UE5 assets and derivative giant head enemies is a dime a dozen in this industry.

>>715353692
is it? name one other

>>715349720 (OP)
You didnt play the game

>>715349720 (OP)


Sometimes, a good game is just a good game. It doesn't have to cater to everyone and be perfect in every way possible.
Every fucking time a game gets popular, it's the same shit
>hurr only popular because of X
>this mechanic was done before
>I watched a youtube video for 30 seconds, I don't get it

>>715351632
>this mechanic was fun in that game I like, I'm going to use it for my game too

Amazing

>>715353530
My guess is that they they made attacks visually throw you off to stop defense/tank builds from being made completely worthless, but they become worthless once you get the party timings down anyway, so I don’t think it was a complete success. I personally feel it would have been more of a success if they did the classic FF, DQ and SMT thing of making it so that taking some kind of damage is largely unavoidable.

>>715352962
>when

>>715353929
you think words like "fun" and "good" are actually descriptors in themselves. they carry no fucking meaning inherently. you probably don't even know why something is or isn't good, you just spit out the impulse response on the other end.

is clair obscur really even that good for people to say it's better than romancing saga 2 or chrono trigger? are the endings even better than, say, the endings in infamous 2?

>>715350518
>There is no gameplay outside the main gameplay component
Retarded take

>>715354208
It is a very solid JRPG-style game. Not perfect, but I think people are floored to just have a game that feels like a PS1 era FF game in 2025, in addition to the fact that it was made by ex-Ubisoft employees, so people are kind of pushing it as a middle finger to Ubisoft.

>>715349720 (OP)
>10/10 music
>10/10 animations
>10/10 character design
>Level design was good
>Graphics are good except for hair
I kind of agree on the game play. You could beat almost any boss with perfect parrying and time. I think the turn based combat styles were great, but everything was really about parrying. The harder bosses were because of weird nonsense combat animation that make it harder to parry. Parrying was fun, but the end result is: "I am good at parrying, now your game is too easy for me." I'd still give game play 8/10.

>>715349720 (OP)
Used to not mind the retards screaming GOTY whenever they discussed e33 but now after finally playing it myself I just have to shit on them whenever the subject appears. The game is barely 6/10.

>>715354371
>10/10 character design
i disagree with that one
they look good and real but designs are okay
you can tell by the minimal amount of fan art for a cultural movement

>>715352987
> mediocre oblivion clone
it blows Bethesda out of the water

>>715353069
Wish she would've gotten more screentime.
I also don't understand when people call her villain, she just wants her family to log off her dead brothers Minecraft RP server and kill the Writers

>>715352857
Based

>>715354371
You don’t even need to get good at parrying to break the game. Even just equipping a bunch of damage Pictos will allow you to one or two shot most things in the game.

The final boss is an absolute joke because if you do any side content before facing him, you’ll be overlevelled and be able to destroy him with ease.

>>715354371
>I kind of agree on the game play. You could beat almost any boss with perfect parrying and time. I think the turn based combat styles were great, but everything was really about parrying. The harder bosses were because of weird nonsense combat animation that make it harder to parry. Parrying was fun, but the end result is: "I am good at parrying, now your game is too easy for me." I'd still give game play 8/10.
While you are not wrong, strategizing also played a part, having good synergy between equipment/skills/luminas/pictos made the difference between a boss being a slog or not

>>715354634
>you’ll be overlevelled and be able to destroy him with ease
That's a problem with pretty much every SMT game and most RPGs.

>>715354371
I've had more trouble with some optional enemies than any of the bosses. The game isn't easy because of the parry mechanic but how overpowered the party members are.
The game hands you respec items all the time too

>>715354781
A lot of JRPGs do employ different methods of trying to counter overlevelling though. To name a few:

>FFVIII- Level scaling so you have to really get to grips with the Junction system if you want to get ahead.

>Lost Odyssey- Caps your level at certain areas to prevent overlevelling.

>Kingdom Hearts- Damage caps that limit the max amount of damage you can deal per area, and also an optional challenge mode that disables levelling entirely.

>SMT- most fights are extremely punishing and resource intensive, so grinding takes forever and is risky.

In E33, you get an absolute boatload of XP from encounters, and the Lumina system makes it very easy for you to equip a bunch of cracked abilities at once.

>>715350386
Not only that but the individual elements work well with each other rather than in spite of each other. I actually hold the opinion that the music in E33 isn't really anything special, but that works in favor of the whole. It is very understated and atmospheric to not distract from other elements; it is complimentary rather than abrasive. This awareness of focusing on what takes precedence is what elevates the sum of the parts above the whole. Verso is written as a shitty character, but his character is compromised purposefully to create mystery and for overall narrative pacing.

Compare Sandfall's holistic synergistic view to the amateur abrasiveness of Disco Elysium. DE is unaware of the bigger picture and frequently murders pacing and presentation in the name of the writer's vain ego. The DE writer is uncaring that his 3 paragraph description of a door the player just wants to fucking open might be a pacing killer. It's the difference between a symphony with clearly defined transitions to which voices are featured and an overly longwinded guitar wank solo that loses all charm on minute 2 of 15.

All this shilling for the game to be forgotten in 2 years time. Sad!

>>715349720 (OP)
Story is unironically the weakest part of this game

>>715354597
she tortured her siblings especially verso in the painting with the nightmare guy. its implied shes a hardcore sadist whenever she uses her powers. wouldnt be surprised if she corrupted her mother somehow to cause the whole family war

>>715352857
Eh, you could have picked worse, I'll allow it. I imagine this earnestly is goty for like 5% of gamers. Coincidentally 50% of that 5% are Eastern European but it can't be helped.

>>715355674
GOW 2018 and tlou were also goty for most people
and i disagree with them

>>715354634
It's not even about overleveling, having 30 more strength means nothing when your weapon gives you 8000 str.
Bigget problem of the game's balancing is how it gives you insane damage boosting pictos way too early, you get a "+25% damage if at full health" picto from the last dungeon, but you already got "+50% damage and +50% crit chance when at low hp" pictos in the first couple hours.

>barely any normal (non-AI) fanart between the numerous boorus
what happened?

>>715355309
Smt is just a lie. The press turn system lets you farm with zero variability and the enemy never gets to act. I don't play trash games so I can't comment on the others. Never playing another smt again because 3 and 5 were boring easy dogshit.

>>715355965
character deigns are good for a movie or tv show
not for a game

>>715356084
Verso, Renoir and Maelle’s designs are great.

>>715355946
Don’t forget Solo Fighter + Last Stand Critical, which basically means that all your attacks become crits.

>>715356225
>same body type
>same colors
>little to no standout features

>>715356305
I reached 100% crit chance in a couple of hours with the 50% crit when on low hp and +25% crit on burning target. Lightning Dance did 12 x 9999 by the end of act 1.
The two bosses in the Monolith were the ONLY bosses I had to fight because they had more than 120k hp.

>>715354268
did you read the post he replied to, or do you always butt in to conversations like you have any clue what anyone’s talking about you fucking moron?

>>715349720 (OP)
The game play, voice acting, story, animations, and graphics are all superb and come together for a sublime experience. Perhaps it may not be entirely your cup of tea, but for me this game reminds me of why I fell in love with video games all those years ago.

>>715353650
Completely disingenuous and you know it. There is 100 times more variety in how you get a star vs how you get a lumina.

>>715354208
like the other guy said the fanbase is rabid and they want this game to be huge and want other JRPGs to be using it as a template for the next decade.

>>715356798
The only boss in general that has a reasonable about of HP for the amount of damage you can deal is Simon. The final boss has just under 2 million HP when at that point in the game, breaking 5 million HP of damage is child’s play.

>>715357263
I one shot both his phases.
I appreciate the game giving me challenge options to multiply the enemy HP but fine tuning the difficulty shouldn't really be on the player. Maybe I'll go to NG+ and give the enemies like 10 - 20 times HP multiplier so I can see the bosses attacks before they die.

>>715356949
OP here,
>animation
come on, that can't be a real metric

But I guess that's the argument that makes the most sense.
>It's nothing new or innovative, and it doesn't has a lot of depth, but everything is well done, and the complete package feels great

>>715355670
It was just a prank, bro
Like grow up and use your powers, the paintings are just painting and are not real people

>>715355309
>>715355946
Pictos give you a shitload of stats too

>>715349720 (OP)
the parrying is fun

>>715357880
Speed an Crit chance being the only things that matter, then again you get First Strike and 100% crit chance early on

>>715349720 (OP)
>Story's great
>Gameplay's great
>Characters are great
>Music's great
>Writing's great
>World building's great

GotY inbound!

>>715349720 (OP)
I've been wrong before but there is no way in hell this wins GOTY over Dead Stranding 2.

>>715361332
lmao. You may actually be right though, depending on how much Kojima slurping Geoff is willing to do. E33 is absolutely GOTY though. It's is literally what the honor was made to award. If it doesn't win, then the whole charade is meaningless.

>>715349720 (OP)
It insists on itself

>>715349794
Post gameplay
>impossible mode
Post gameplay that involves more than pressing 1 button

>>715349720 (OP)
I also really loved the art, music, designs and enjoyed the combat and character building a lot.
>muh marketing event award
pathetic slave to the media

>>715351930
It's one of the reaction image packs you get in some of those reddit raiding discords.

>>715352167
Reacting to things your opponent does is a huge part of gaming. Doesn't matter what you call it. You are stupid.