>Ruins action game combat design for the next decade and a half

>>715355223 (OP)
People didnt start copying the formula until years afterward. Its a great game, but i wish devs didnt just go oh souls shit is cool because its hard and you roll a lot and you parry, None of those thing are what made the combat good imo. The exploration and character building were as good as the combat, perhaps more important even.

Also i think the games control scheme is dumb because having sprint on a face button means i have to give up control of the camera. If sprint was on one of the triggers, and the attack buttons were square and triangle like every other action game, this wouldnt be an issue but for some reason 10+ years later from soft is still asking us to claw grip

>>715355223 (OP)
Not Miyazaki's fault. Blame all of those soulless developers and publishers that are creatively bankrupt.

>>715355223 (OP)
These games were never hard, idk when that meme started. They were just different. If you see a big boss swinging your natural reaction is to run away when hes swinging and attack when hes not. In souls, all you do is lazily walk behind them and try climb inside their asshole. once you learnt the "Trick" the games were really easy. Now all the bosses flip around the arena constantly &/or run away with every attack being a delayed attack and input reading set to 100%.. it sucks. fromsoft getting popular was its downfall because they will always listen to the loudest voices but those voices are fucking retarded.

Like, all the enemy move sets you learn throughout the early games used to transfer to bosses/later game. In Elden Ring the DLC is a lesson in forgetting everything the base game taught you.

>Defines action game combat design for the next decade and a half but nobody uses it

>>715355223 (OP)
>Made one of the ebst video game worlds to explore which the average jrpg slop has yet to reach

>>715356830
So it didn't define anything

>>715356653
Normies got beaten up tho so its hard.
We gotta suck up to normies and the act man.

>>715356008
The combat was good because of environmental placements. I think undead burg, catacombs and upper blighttown are the unironic peak. Its a shame people took the roll and parry away from this since it was more about entering a room and pulling enemies in certain directions so they couldn't team up on you or you could strafe around them.

what was the better combat system for longer, melee focused 3d action games in 2011? i can't name a better one

>>715356897
It gave the perfect framework of how to pull off action combat in multiple styles in a vast open world, but before you knew it, everyone graduated from Skyrim ripoff slop to Dark Souls ripoff slop

>>715355223 (OP)
None of them managed to copy it anyway

>>715356008
>Its a great game
and yet there's zero webms of this game ever looking "great"

>action game devs can't design their own combat and just rip off something popular
>this is fromsoft's fault
reminder action games were already dead in 2008 before demon's souls came out
DMC4 was shamelessly unfinished and ninja gaiden didn't have a good game after the original xbox entries
and the more mainstream shit was bamham/asscreed "combat" and QTEs instead of boss fights
maybe action game devs are just fucking shit at their jobs

>>715356952
D:<
streamers/youtubers were a mistake. those assholes ruined gaming. now everything's just souless advertiser friendly slop.

>>715357310
>It gave the perfect framework of how to pull off action combat
>Soft lock on you have no control over
>Magic that is not designed to interact with enemies
>Skill spam with little committment and endlag
>Botched poise system
>Wooden animations that can't be redirected at all
>It gave the perfect framework of how to pull off action combat
>It gave the perfect framework of how to pull off action combat
>Slow retarded enemies
>No weapon swaps
>Retarded AI always around you

>>715355223 (OP)
don't blame the originator, blame the copycats

>>715357543
this you?

>>715356008
>Its a great game, but i wish devs didnt just go oh souls shit is cool because its hard and you roll a lot and you parry, None of those thing are what made the combat good imo.
Damn I guess you understood the game and everybody else didn't
>If sprint was on one of the triggers, and the attack buttons were square and triangle like every other action game
Then it would be any other action game, and not one meant to be played without lock on
>>715356653
>These games were never hard
>Now all the bosses flip around the arena constantly &/or run away with every attack being a delayed attack and input reading set to 100%.. it sucks
>>715356830
Lol this crap sucked

>>715357885
god this looks like shit

>>715355223 (OP)
*saves

>>715356653
>These games were never hard, thats a meme.
The learning curve is just steep, also most modern games since the ps2 boom have been easy, they had to be 4 the normies who bought the ps2 for dvds. They didnt sell 150m units to hardcore gamers
>If you see a big boss swingin ur natural reaction is 2 run away when hes swingin and attack when hes not. In souls, all u do is lazily walk behind them and try climb inside their asshole. once you learnt the "Trick" the games were really easy.
I started with bborne & i would always say back then, "my strategy is to get in the grundle and go wham wham wham", it is like that if youre playing a str build for sure. Cant speak 4 other builds though. Well mages arent but mages make ds piss easy so i hear you just. hang back & mash spells
>Now all the bosses flip around the arena constantly &/or run away with every attack being a delayed attack & input reading set to 100. it sux
It is annoying as hell, i really feel like the meme of souls being hard was made into reality and thats not why i play these games. Ideally, when i play a game i want to have to try a few times on a boss before i beat them, but if im puttin in 2 hour sessions every day and not beating the boss after a few days, every single boss, im gonna get tired unless i rly love the game. Like for the final boss of drakengard 3 i actually took a few months, but i did it because i absolutely love that series and it wasnt a recurring issue just a really weird difficulty spike at the end.
>fromsoft getting popular was its downfall bc they will always listen to the loudest voices but those voices are retarded.
Maybe? I guess so
>Like, all the enemy move sets u learn thru out the early games used to transfer to bosses/later game. In ER the DLC is a lesson in forgetting everything the base game taught you.
I was told u just gotta collect the scadu bits bro but like... i dont want to? Its the worst way 2 grind because u can put all of the effort in & still get nowhere.

>>715358021

>>715356008
>claw grip
You are supposed to not be able to control your camera during sprinting. It's an intended trade off and good game design. Claw grip subhumans get the rope.

>>715358241
god this looks like shit

>>715358305
back buttons solved this a long time ago

>>715358241
nice webm bro

>>715357919
>These games were never hard
Its still not hard, its annoying. Bosses that flip around the arena or that input read are the difficulty equivalent of bulletsponges. They made all the DLC enemys the opposite of base game enemys so instead of building off what you learnt in the base game, you had to relearn every enemy to expect delayed attacks and flippy-dippy bullshit. It was annoying, unfun and a step in the wrong direction.

>>715358449
here is another great webm that you will no doubt relate to

>>715357184
Except when a game does have good environmental placements and doesn't allow you to cheat by pulling enemies and safely circle strafing them one by one this retard fanbase gets filtered because pressing the roll button at the right time isn't working. Entire souls community is frauds.

>>715355223 (OP)
I think the two worst things about Souls combat system are the Stamina system and the inconsistent hit stun. The latter in particular is a cardinal sin of ARPG design.

>>715358641
h-he's fast

Op here, posted the wrong pic! Pic related was what I meant to post.

>>715358693
I think you'er stupide

>>715356830
Dragon's Dogma combat is easily worse than Dark Souls combat, it's not even close

>>715355223 (OP)
How can the best action game of all time do that?

>>715355223 (OP)
Dark Souls copied Ocarina of Time

>>715358543
>Its still not hard, its annoying.
The excuse of shitters
>Bosses that flip around the arena or that input read are the difficulty equivalent of bulletsponges
Nope, you are too stupid to read the boss and adapt to them. You want them costantly at reach, and never to actually understand if they are committing to any kind of animation
>>715358641
>Except when a game does have good environmental placements and doesn't allow you to cheat by pulling enemies and safely circle strafing them one by one

>>715356008
>The exploration and character building were as good as the combat, perhaps more important even.
Trvke

>>715357543
All footage of it looks great

>>715356830
Biggest pile of slop I've ever played. No, 36388 move combo does not make it cool. Koreans and japs are mentally ill they can't fathom a normal slash or a shield bash as a way to kill a nigga

Reminder, the souls community will unironically tell you to 'git gud" after an enemy kills you through a wall; but then whine like baby's because an enemy is placed by a fogwall you can iframe through. Now you tell me which is actually more fair and honest difficulty? Anything they have to say about what's good should be taken with a grain of salt.

>>715358127
>The learning curve is just steep
Well said. My first souls was DS3 and I died like 50 times to Gundyr before it clicked for me. Like, its not hard but its just different. Thats what made it special.
>I was told u just gotta collect the scadu bits bro but like... i dont want to?
Oh man, that was the first thing I did and it does help but its just annoying lol I dont want to collect pinecones or watch sunsets or climb towers or whatever. Just let me play >.<

idk, I agree with everything you said.
Im just salty haha Im going through Elden Ring again and its such a stark difference between the base game and the DLC.

>>715356653
It wasn't hard, but it was unforgiving. I don't think you realize how stupid the majority of the population is. They will take unnecessary risks, get hardstuck into the same patterns, and panic without a plan. If you don't teach them the right way then they will spin their wheels forever until their subconscious gets so used to the animations that it becomes slow motion.

>>715358641
What a dishonest clip, the entirety of DS1 revolves around carefully pulling one or two mobs at a time from distance so you don't get swarmed and killed.
Those Capra demons are just bugged obviously, and not representative of the game overall.
Are you jewish?

>>715359131
Except when DS2 does the exact same thing you throw your hands in the air and call that cheating like a good lil casual npc
>>715359209
> the entirety of DS1 revolves around carefully pulling one or two mobs at a time from distance so you don't get swarmed and killed.
And that's good, because why..? lol

>>715359085
>Souls whiner has never actually played any o f the games
Classic.
There are zero i-frames on DS2 fog walls. You are vulnerable during the entire animation and enemy attacks cancel you out of walking through it.

>>715358732
Where are all the dmc3 clones you speak of?

>>715359085
>>715359294
Glass house

>>715359209
>that one individual instance is just le bugged

>>715359294
Because its engaging and exciting gameplay. Its skill based and has multiple levels of skill that you have to acquire during the game. Good pulling, good situational awareness, good combat skills, good escaping skills. Top tier game design.
You probably play unironically garbage bing bing wahoo slop like DMC and think thats good, a monkey could play those games because they require zero thinking.

>>715359131
90% of gamers are stupid yes, but a little bit of grinding is enough to give you a massive stat boost over bosses.

Also, From games often have this problem where you can easily run past enemies with no consequences.

>>715355223 (OP)
then name a game with better combat that isn't just mashing one button like DMC

>>715359417

>>715359417
I mean from one clip I would have assumed it was just bugged but now its clear you modded the enemies to be passive in order to create these clips, pretty pathetic.
Its not anyones experience in the game, thats literally how most people play Dark Souls, by pulling mobs from afar, and they certainly do run after you when you range hit them.

>>715359131
>If you don't teach them the right way then they will spin their wheels forever
Thats what I normally appreciate about these games. The first few encounters are always a lesson. I guess all of them are but the first ones were always the most important and set the tone for the rest of the game and gave you the tools to deal with whatever's in front of you.

At least, thats what I appreciate about them now. Jumping into the souls series blind was like hitting my face off a brick wall until I finally understood.

>>715359430
No, it's completely breaking whatever situational awareness and combat skills you might need otherwise if the enemies cant even work together or just do nothing entirely.
>>715359539
>it's le modded
You cant argue with DS1 hipster cultists. Holy shit.

>>715359447
>"just mashing one button like DMC"
>he says this while defending Dark Souls, a series whose combat is entirely just mashing one button and never advanced past that

>>715359578
>Backpedaling from half a dozen mobs is the pinnacle of Dark Souls 2 game design

>>715359447
What? DMC uses every button found from your controller and has more moves than a fully fledged fighting game. I'd even argue that they're easily harder than fighting game combos because you're operating in full 3d space and there's more possibilities on where the enemies and you will end up after each button press.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbGS0qBSOCg

>>715359815
>combos
combos are pointless, you can beat the whole game just by mashing Y

>>715355223 (OP)
>If you do something, and everyone copies it, then it's somehow your fault that they are unoriginal fucks without ideas of their own.

brainlet take

>>715359884
And you can drive to work with just following the road and traffic rules. Doesn't mean that all driving is easy.

>>715359774
>miyazaki hipsters cant into game design when not one iframe is being used

>>715359578
The enemy AI is great in DS1 and creates all kinds of totally unique situations that you have to adapt to.
Also its obvious you modded the game, yes. The enemies literally do come after you when you range hit them lol, its insane that you are trying to push an agenda that they supposedly don't. We all played through the game first time by carefully pulling mobs from afar.

>>715360193
Ok, please post webms to expose i modded the game

>>715359447
NG

>>715358305
Being unable to claw grip makes YOU the sub-human, anon

>>715360193
>The enemy AI is great in DS1 and creates all kinds of totally unique situations that you have to adapt to.

Dude, DS1 looks like the fucking worst game ever made; but then DS2 exemplifies everything this fandom preaches about and is 'le baaad'? Can someone explain that to me?

>>715358641
Dark Souls 2 derangement syndrome and Bloodborne/Artoriae unwarranted endless glazing are the two foundational problems of modern Souls games

>>715360595
The fandom is retarded. That's literally all it is.

>>715358732
Dmc is really cool, but it wasnt very influential for game design. There were some dmc inspired games like chaos legion but there hasnt been a dmc inspired game for probably over a decade now

>>715360595
>Dude, I'm easily influenced by disingenuous webms about games I've never played
a /v/igger thru and thru

>>715360889
Well, it's your job to post "non disingenuous" webms that show this game ever looking good.

>>715360146
>spam estus, spam lifegems, survive.webm

>>715360976
Its not my job to do anything /v/igger. You don't deserve to play good games.

>>715361029
Dude! Just spam the lifegems it totally works I promise. Even though there's not one webm of this tactic ever working, yet DS1 and DS3 webms exist of players just spamming heling in the boss's face just fine.

>>715361230
>Dude! Just spam the lifegems it totally works
Yes

>>715361339
>notice how he's running away to get a heal off because you quite literally cant spam heals
Like i said

the brutal blackpill on action game design is:
most people simply just want to dodge and attack and nothing more, they dont want to think about what kind of attacks are coming, or what kind of attacks they have, they dont want to be aggressive etc

>>715359660
Dark Souls has two attack buttons. Three attack buttons if you use a spell catalyst instead of a shield, four if you also include items. Dark Souls 2 would massively improve how left-hand weapons work allowing for proper dual wield setups, Bloodborne added more moves to single weapons and introduced charged heavy attacks, Dark Souls 3 had the first proper iteration of weapon arts and ER would retune everything so that every option has its place in a fight.
If you're going to argue that none of that matters because you can beat the game with just R1 then DMC is also just a single button game because you can beat everything with the basic Rebellion combo. But if you're that much of a reductive faggot about either game then I don't think you've ever actually played them at all.

>>715361432
>You can instantly disengage with an entire roster worth of worthless enemies and set up some ridicolous passive heal enemies can't even punish posthumously
Weird flex

>>715361432
You couldn't get away playing this bad against even flexile sentry, but i'm supposed to believe it's DS2 with the healing "problem." lol

>>715361339
I fucking hate those hungry hungry hippo's. They will always scare the shit out of me. I think its because they look like they are smiling.
>Why you smiling, dawg?
>WHY YOU EYEBALLIN ME?!?!
>WHY ARE YOU SMILI-*nomnomnom*

>>715361559
>rolls away to get a heal off
No one thinks this is bad. This is how healing is supposed to work.

>>715361481
the 2nd blackpill is that souls boss roster (even the spectacle combo ones) is more consistent and more fun than other action games
souls doesn't have anything as good as vergil, but rarely will it have something as bad as arkham

>>715361432
>Overleveled
>12 estus at Pontiff
The only valid take from this webm is that poise and armor finally works in DS3

>Dude just spam the lifegems.
>My source trust me bro.
Not one webm exists of this ever once working and yet there's multiple examples of doing this very thing in DS1 and 3.

>>715357310
>vast open world
fucking lmao, DD fans are so full of shit

>>715361673
>Healing is supposed to be infinite and easy
Lol

>>715361935
>Look how the healing i purposefully delay is punished

>>715362020
>>715362263
>715362263
You create space, openings, and calculate the time for every heal you do. What else is healing supposed to be than that? Chugging in their face and tanking hits?

all they did was copy zelda, which just copies arcade games

japan kill gaming

>>715362310
>Worst Souls 2 lets you walk while popping lifegems and lets you tank the damage you take and heal it back
>Somehow walking is advanced strategy and that nullifies the fact that healing is easy and infinite

>>715358808
Braindead fromdrone cope

>>715362263
>delayed healing is punished
That's how healing is supposed to work. Which is more than you can say for any of the other games.

>>715362518
and yet there's not one webm of you ever tanking damage with lifegems because it's fundamentally impossible with the slow healing. But they exist in DS1 and DS3 and you conveniently ignore that.

>>715355223 (OP)
Before dark souls, everyone was doing retarded gears of war clones.

>>715355223 (OP)
Replayed for the first time in nearly 10 years. Got to the four Kings and stopped afterwards, I adored this game but it has aged quite terribly and the bosses despite not being hard at all are extremely fucking glitched and broken.

The run backs are of course atrocious, most of your deaths will either be from enemy spam, cliffs, or janky boss hit boxes.

>>715362542
>That's how healing is supposed to work.
You mean healing is supposed to work so that you wait to start for the enemy to be half done with the recovery and get killed to pretend Dark Souls 2 is a challenging game?

>>715362662
>and yet there's not one webm of you ever tanking damage with lifegems because it's fundamentally impossible
That's funny

>>715362859
>not one iframe is being used
god take me back. Holy shit from completely lost their way

>>715363028
When do you tank the damage? I'm not watching the whole thing.

you people seem to have forgotten what gaming was like before dark souls 1. during those years games were being made to be as simple and easy as possible. Mainstream games were basically movie games where the player input didnt even really matter, you pressed X to advance the story. Souls added gameplay to games again and showed it could be successful. It unironically saved gaming

>>715363028
>didnt use a life gem one time
??

>>715355223 (OP)
Soulslike combat only took off due to the plague of controller-first design and bad multiplat porting of 7th gen.
People were sick and tired of Bamham style counterslop and cover based shooters that played themselves and required zero attention span.
There just isn't much you can do in a 3D game with dual analog controls without heavy compromises.

>>715364212
The viral marketing behind souls being the savior of gaming was done by people that grew up in the 80's that thought spending 20 dollars a week at the arcade was a good way to spend money

>>715364810
>grew up in the 80's that thought spending 20 dollars a week at the arcade was a good way to spend money
It was.
And still is

so why DID the souls formula become the dominant gameplay format?

>>715364810
Back then arcades were the top of the line of everything.
Best graphics, motorized contraptions, different controls..
You basically could play dreamcast like graphics in 1996, and get into an insane thing that spins you around like crazy.

>>715355223 (OP)
Once you peak it's all downhill

>>715365425
arcade gameplay is fucking garbage and japanese games suffer because of it, souls is basically an arcade game

>>715355223 (OP)
Funny enough the combat isn't even that good. But the overall game was so good that others just copied that aspect of it anyway.

>>715366542
Lower case copium
=D

>>715366994
Arcades were literally just marketing scams, wowing you with presentation while the actual experience was non existent. At their worst they were rigged to give kids game overs so they keep stuffing them with quarters, fooling them into thinking they were accomplishing something which is the psychological reward system that keeps them playing sub-par games

>>715367182
Maybe some shitty ones sure, but arcades were often where the best games were, you should try 1ccing something like final fight to get a better view of what this part of the industry was actually like.

>>715367408
Ah yes, fighting games, notorious for having fair CPUs

>>715367467
You were talking so confidently i thought you might have had some experience but you don't even knowing what final fight is? jesus man

>>715367575
No I never went to arcades even as a kids because I thought they were scams (they are). I did play air hockey though, often not paying and slamming the handle around instead.

The CPUs in final fight cheat to try and steal your quarters

>>715355223 (OP)
Only the first half up until Anor londo is good, everything after that is shit, all combat in these games devolves into figuring out how to lure out one enemy at a time, or using the enviroment to block the stupid AI while you kill its friends, there is barely any positioning to speak of and the entire game is broken by a nigga with a Zwei strong attacking or roll poking

>>715359417
>>715359578
>>715360232
Works on my machine

>>715356565
Even Miyazaki is just mindlessly imitating his old successes at this point though.

>>715369886
you're standing right on the edge of its aggro range (and then you roll straight towards the other one)
one step down, or even just more towards the middle of the steps, and they'll just stand there getting shot

>>715355223 (OP)
If all the CAG creators hadn’t been tied up in retarded industry drama maybe things would have been different but that’s not Miyazakis fault.

>>715356653
>These games were never hard
Where did this discord meme start from? These were absolutely hard the entire reason these games have been remembered is because they’re hard.

>>715356830
DD fucking sucks nigga I’m sorry you haven’t realized that lol

>>715371759
historical revisionism that started with the release of the remaster
i saw it firsthand, i invaded PTDE a ton all the way up to 2019 and the gravelord sword was incredibly rare to come across, generally only other lifers with thousands of hours would have it
come the remaster, ten billion youtube videos are out within release week about HOW TO GET SUPER OVERPOWERED AND BREAK THE GAME IN TEN SECONDS and every single player has gravelord sword, more common than the drake sword even. if they don't have gravelord sword they have black knight halberd. always the halberd specifically. the busted shit was always in the game, but it wasn't something the average player would come across without being told. especially if you go all the way back to original release when nothing was known about the game by anybody, it was a completely different difficulty to how utterly trivial it is to play with full speedrunner knowledge and a comprehensive wiki and guide open at all times now.

>>715357885
>LLEEESM
“People” with handles like this should be executed on the spot

>>715374128
The game was designed and marketed to be hard

>>715358641
Pulling enemies is intended game design. Bloodborne even gave you pebbles to do this, because it didn't let you carry 999 bullets(like you could do with arrows in previous souls games).

>>715359085
>Running past enemies
Deserved. In fact, they should be able to follow you inside boss fights.

I desperately want to play a game that replicates the feeling of playing ds1 for the first time, with an interconnected world in a hostile, decaying environment