Games that have world building, plot, or stories completely kneecapped by their game play.

Fucking Blue Prince

So much went into this game yet fucking nothing can be capitalized on and it pisses me off. This was the first puzzle game where I grew more and more annoyed with the secrets I uncovered because you can't fucking do anything with what you find out.

Major spoilers so fuck you if you spoil yourself.

Okay so Simon is the one true heir of the original kingdom, your mother broke her back to get the crown for you and through other plot you are in control of the original castle and other royal artifacts. You have everything, the crown, the bloodline, noble title, the scepter, original black prints, multiple deeds / wills that give you the land in different ways under different legal systems. You have all the soft power in the world. You have all the symbology that could possibly be handed to you and you can't do a fucking thing with it all. Soft power is worthless without hard power and Simon has fuck all. He is a 14 year old kid with a handful of servants. His family is dead or bunkering in foreign lands. Hell he can't even try to get a foreign nation to help because the grounds for his ascension and claim ALSO gives him claim over those other nations, and they wont risk endorsing him for him to come right back around and use their own endorsement against them.

>>715411796 (OP)

The people still have the war fresh in their memory and the red guard will descend upon him if he so much as hints at the truth. Fuck they already have Simon watched so who knows what they already know or learned from Simon figuring out puzzles. The fact that staff draft rooms the same as Simon and multiple people can be in the home at the same time means the investigator could of went into every room you were in and looked at everything you did while Simon was in another room. Fuck they may just off Simon before he can even think of trying to reclaim his birthright.

The gameplay is also a fucking puzzle game! Its a good game don't get me wrong but the scope feels wildly disproportionate. I can't even see a sequel moving the plot forward because how? The game is simply not set up for that. It feels like all the secrets you learn are just fucking pointless because it can't go anywhere. I see no future in which this information is of use to Simon at all. The story and plot of the world is 10/10 but the gameplay wont let you do anything with it.

dang, i saw some guy play the game and the plot seemed good with a lot of secrets, but it sounds like it was better than i thought. like you said, too bad its a puzzle game lmao

>>715412094
The plot is great. The world building especially. Nothing feels forced but at the same time nothing feels unnecessary. Every piece of information is used somewhere or links to something else. That's why I'm so mad. There is so much there that I want MORE and I want to act on it. I want to see The seventh age where Simon takes power. Let alone the eighth age with apparently is the apocalypse. Its all there just out of reach as I am trying to get one specific room to spawn o do the thing I figured out seven runs ago.

>>715412305
instead of blue prince, call it blue balls lmao

My takeaway from Blue Prince is that your game needs an ending. It feels like the only driving force behind Simon exploring the mansion day after day is my willingness to continue pursuing the endless parade of puzzles. Once I asked myself why I was continuing, I couldn't come up with a reason and set the game aside. I feel like a lot of BP playthroughs must have petered out like this, which can't be what the developer intended.

>>715414697
I feel it. Right now I'm just finishing what I know I can finish. I've got a few things on my list where I just need the right rooms to spawn to finish them. Once I finish them I don't know if I will do much else. I think another problem is not knowing how much is left. There are a few things that I have notated down that may lead to something but could just as well be nothing at all. Some of these rooms need such specific things to spawn or need other things to spawn as well that I'm pretty sure I have not even seen every room.

>>715411796 (OP)
I really wanted to playbit but apparently it has rng and i just straight up hate that stuff

the fucking lab puzzle is doing my head in
I chained the elements in order but the result makes no sense
I actually managed to roll boiler+lab+freezer and I feel obligated to figure this out.

>>715415767
If its the one I'm thinking of 9 then 3 if not I have no idea.

>>715415712
It has a lot of RNG you will have multiple dead runs just from getting cucked from room connections. Luckily that's it there are no RNG puzzles or puzzles that have their answers changed based on RNG.

>>715415867
Yeah it is I figured it out literally a minute after posting.
I thought this controls the freezer but I guess not.

>>715416174
If you are trying to figure out the freezer

Hints
What makes heat?
Have you tried exploring with contraptions?

If you want the answers.
Build a furnace within two tiles to melt half the ice. Use the igniter magnifying glass + Metal detector to melt the rest. There is also a secret wall you need to bust down with the auto hammer. Lever + Battery pack + Hammer

>>715414697
It also really needs a story. Yeah, you're getting your inheritance and there's background stuff about a political uprising but the game is extremely fucking disconnected from all that, the mansion does not feel lived in, and there's no good payoff like you said. Sokobans and pure puzzle games can get away with having minimal story but for an adventure puzzle game like this where most of the secrets are about the narrative, it has a really fucking weak setting and story.

>>715416428
Do I absolutely have to have the furnace? I'm out of options for the day.
I can build both the items though.

>>715416515
I think you can melt all the ice with the igniter but never tried.

>>715416486
>the mansion does not feel lived in

You have not been paying attention. You can literally see the effects of at least one other person as they do stuff day to day if you know what to look for.

>>715416691
It does not feel lived in. Even the personal bedrooms don't feel like real bedrooms. Everything is pristine, and most of what you interact with are expository notes and only very rarely objects or furniture so you barely get any flavor. It's too much of a place that was expressly built to be a puzzle house for an inheritance ritual and not a real house. Babbage cleaning up after you, a cat you never see, and other minor details does not make it feel like a real place.

>>715416918
Fair. To me Babbage moving things around according to her notes and what you have unlocked and completed did it for me. It made it feel like the home could come alive the moment everyone arrived. Once you reach room 46 though and become Barron the fact that they don't arrive does make it feel empty.

>>715411796 (OP)
I can only stomach 2 in-game days/runs per play session before I turn it off with frustration wondering why I'm wasting my time on this.

>>715417326
Why? Is it the steps keys and gems? There are trainers that fix that.

>>715411796 (OP)
>Games that have world building, plot, or stories completely kneecapped by their game play.
Cultist Simulator
Book of Hours
Library of Ruina

>>715417789
>Cultist Simulator

I have the game and have no idea how to play it. It seems interesting but I bounced right off it. Never gave Book of Hours a try because of it.

>>715417151
I think a big part of why I feel that way is that you don't get a personal story of any of the inhabitants as they grew up or spent time in the manor, so there's no association to be had with a lot of the rooms. They're just there, really. The most endearing thing I've learned about Simon is that he wore a train shirt.

Are there rooms that just don't have those paired drawings?

>>715412305
>Every piece of information is used somewhere or links to something else
pic related, baron bafflers, random numbers hidden in textures, atelier, they all lead nowhere. The game has only one ending you can easily reach in few hours of playing. Rest of the information and puzzles is completely optional and doesn't give any ending or closure. You're just left with more questions than answers and too many leads which ended prematurely.

>>715417847
Book of Hours has no timer, you can just do everything at your own pace. It's enough for you to learn how the gameplay system works. But holy fuck is it tedious. Remembering where you left your items in the mansion, writing down the books which boost a specific 'element" in an external excel spreadsheet - it's mind-numbingly boring.

>>715411796 (OP)
>>715411828
game for pseud redditors, might be difficult if youre sub-80iq
the game relies too much on rng for difficulty

>>715417981
I think there are a few, but every square on the map corresponds to a letter of alphabet anyway. So you have to either guess a letter if you are missing it from the grid or finish the day and roll another room in that place.

>>715418101
Is there any pay off? Boring gameplay can get a pass if there is pay off.

>>715417981
Most of the green rooms, yeah.

For me it was knowing exactly what I had to do but being at the mercy of RNG even with all the RNG-mitigating strats and techniques. Even if I'd use a walkthrough I'd still have to hope that all pieces would fall into place and correct items would spawn. I know how to complete the game, I just have to wait for specific seed. This is not fun.
I dropped the game when I used 50 stars to pull specific room.
Also fuck whoever designed blue tents hints. They cost a fortune and give you hints for puzzles you solved 100 hours ago.

Anyone know what Mantis is supposed to be for? I can not for the life of me figure it out and am about to dump it as a red herring.

>>715418398
I'd say not really. I really like the writing style, but there's not really any payoff. I played like 20 hours before dropping BoH.
Travelling at Night by the same author looks very promising though. I don't see how they can ruin a Disco Elysium-like; 0 gameplay is way better than bad gameplay.

>>715418749
>Travelling at Night

That does look promising.

>>715418737
It's a red herring. That's all there is to it.

I spent fucking HOURS drafting rooms trying to figure out the castling puzzle thinking I needed specific rooms next to each other only to find out the real answer was so much simpler. God damn it.

Spoil it for me: what is the pattern on the scrolling panels in the boiler room for?

>>715414697
My takeaway of dev intent was that he was just throwing everything at the wall to extend playtime past the return barrier.

If anyone has it, I strongly recommend using cheat engine to increase run speed.

>>715416486
I assume there's more content to be added by the dev, but he also really needs to commit to endings. I assume spiral into madness was where he was going.

>>715415712
This is an absolute do not play for you. Cheat engine to increase run speed is a no brainer for anyone playing and has no effect on puzzle solving.. Something that multiplies all resources also feels correct.

>>715419619
No one knows. Many have noticed it but if anyone has figured it out or found what it connects to they have not shared it online. It might be nothing. Most think its related to dergiblocks and will be used when the update happens. There are a few things that are obviously for dergiblocks.

>>715419882
>Something that multiplies all resources also feels correct.

I use a trainer to give me 100 of everything because I can not be assed to deal with dead runs.

>>715419619
Absolutely nothing. lmao

>>715411796 (OP)
>>715411828
doesn't al-jazeera or whatever his name is straight up say he's not alone in the mansion?
>the investigator
is that what's being referred to or are there other instances in the game that hints at such a character?
>>715417789
>Cultist Simulator
>Book of Hours
unironically a fucking shame what happened with the writer and failbetter games, cause his new games have good writing but shit gameplay
imagine if he got to write another game in the Neath and they improved even more from skies cause while the gameplay is good the setting is subpar

>>715421389
Yes. The Red Guard have been watching the house ever since the heist and the investigator was tasked with following you around.

>>715421538
yeah he's cooked
even if he is a rightful heir and even if the current reign is totalitarian few people probably have reason to acknowledge him
especially given the reason for the war in the first place and with 2-3 generations of historical revisionism
then again, the setting does give the impression that people put far more weight on royalty, lineage and heraldry and arent as politically liberal/democratic

>>715421881
Yeah. Even after the populist revolution new nobility was put into place. One of themes is bloodlines and natural orders. Things have their place and their fates are predetermined. Its why I want to see the eight age. Its pretty clearly stated that the eighth age is the apocalypse. Given the apparent tech level I'm thinking nukes but magic is a real thing in this world so who knows.

>>715422210
>spoiler
Imagine this shit turning into various ages like in Myst. It would be fun seeing Orinda during various historical events.

>>715422210
Draxus, the angel of death being the 8th in the natural order fits into that, as well as there being 8 realms

>>715422210
it isnt actually apocalypse. they misspelled it.

>be children literature writer noble
>all your publisher asks of you is that you don't add politics to your children books
>add politics to your children books
>chimp out and abandon your family (probably fucking that dude in her letters by the beach

>we made a walking simulator...
>... but the levels are random...
>...and it's cardslop...
>...and... LE ROGUELITE
It never fails to amuse me that this is the kind of shit that makes normalfags go "OH MY SCIENCE THE BOUNDLESS CREATIVITY OF INDIE DEVERINOS!!!"
It's extra funny how people want to pretend it's some sort of intelectual puzzle game but the average puzzle involves going to some other place where you get told the solution

>>715422691
The books were not made for the general public. They were made specifically for Simon. Her life as an author was one of her covers to gather information specifically on the publisher she worked with while she looked for the artifacts. Everything she did was to set Simon up to be the next true king and start the seventh age.

>>715422818
Except the biggest gripe with the game is the RNG drafting mechanics. Out side of pacing the player out in the early game they only get in the way once the player hits mid game.

>>715411796 (OP)
unironically filtered. it's the greatest puzzle game of all time - each mechanic and puzzle has grounding on the world and doesn't just exist for the sake of it.
It's a bit unfortunate the roguelite/boardgame mechanic is anathema to a lot of people, but imo the game doesn't really work as well if it was just a straight up puzzle game like Lorelei, Riven etc.

>>715411796 (OP)
The atmosphere and the premise of this game is amazing, it feels genuinely fresh and mysterious in the first hour or so
Too bad it quickly devolves into a poorly designed TPS after that

>>715423331
I think there should of been a mechanic to 'lock' rooms so you started the next day with them already placed. That would of made things a lot smother and let you work on rooms where you know the solution but could not produce the answer. Like when I just can not fucking find a broken lever to make a contraption with.

>>715423331
The game is actually FUN if you can skip the rng elements, yes.

The game is pure slop. I went over it with a fine tooth comb when it came out, and it was awful until after the sigils, and then good for a minute, and then awful again when you realise that all the leads actually go nowhere and the game is half-finished at best.

One of the biggest let-downs in recent memory, actively insulting in its presentation. I could live with the awful gameplay and poor design if the game had something to offer at the end, but instead it's just fake leads that go to nothing.

Go play Type Help instead. It's a lot more fun.

>>715423331
>unironically filtered. it's the greatest puzzle game of all time
Yeah, you don't play puzzle games. Please play some Zachtronics games or Golden Idol before making such statements.

>>715411796 (OP)
I thought there was going to be some occult thing with the cursed effigy and claiming the thrown would be symbolic metaphor for retaking the country. Then nothing really happens and it doesn't even really have an ending. I really enjoyed it but its kind of weak in retrospect. What you get for the time investment is pretty low, its kind of like a magic trick in that respect

the roguelite elements are there just to pad out the playing time
absolute slop

>>715423556
I think Golden Idol is weaker mechanically than Obra Dinn and Rootrees Are Dead tbdesu. Zachtronics games are the greatest puzzle games ever made.
Blue Prince is dogshit.

Anyone here made it to the blueprints maze?
Did anyone clear it?

>>715423792
>Golden Idol
never played it but the title somehow dug up a memory of this other series called Broken Sword
remembered it as a puzzle game but it's just some adventure game with slight puzzle elements

>>715423717
It always pisses me off when modern indie shitters do this
They used to understand that a "roguelike" should be gameplay focused and offer enough variety to keep the game fresh for many runs, meanwhile modern indie shitter thinks like "our game only has like 1 hour of content, how do we sell this for 15 bucks at least? Hmmm... make it roguelike"

>>715423792
No, Golden Idol is better than Obra Dinn because it doesn't involve guessing and having to look for hints in random places. All the information you need is located on the scene, you only need to think and have some basic logic.

I got into the room by day 14 but post-game rerolling to get the other secrets felt annoying as shit.
When I started playing this I thought "man people on /v/ exaggerate this game is kind of neat"
But the more I played the more I started to hate the random design of it all.
I'm at 5 red envelopes and I can already tell there's no payoff that will salvage this game for me.
Loathe it with all my being.

>>715423813
Yes, but at that point I was pretty sick and tired of the game so I just looked at the solution.

>>715423792
Type Help is the best of the deduction games, and I'm tired of people acting like it isn't just because they haven't played it.

>>715425183
Help

>>715423792
Zachtronics games are one of those things I have a complicated relationship with. I really love the games and enjoy playing them, but I've never actually finished any of them because they start getting really complicated towards the end and I start burning out really fast.

>>715425290
I really liked the solitaire game. The rest I like in concept but just can't get into because they feel so tedious and like coding which I don't enjoy.

I've been playing A Solitaire Mystery since yesterday and I don't like it as much as the Zachtronics one.

>>715425365
I recently replayed Exapunks and got up the baseball puzzle before burning out. I have literally zero coding experience and kind of enjoyed it. it took me fucking ages to understand how the Swizzle command worked.

>>715411796 (OP)
Story boils down to "mommy abandoned her son and ran off with her lover" glad I didn't put too much into this

>>715425183
Thanks for the recommendation, just wishlisted https://store.steampowered.com/app/3641000/The_Incident_at_Galley_House/
As long as it's even half as good as Rootrees, I'll be satisfied.

>>715411796 (OP)
>you can't do a fucking thing with it
Based. Muh Blue Kingdom was the weakest plot in the game. The only thing I wish Simon could do is tell him mom that she and her friends are Repairer of Reputations-tier political schizos and he's considering a career in the Red Guard

>>715416918
>It does not feel lived in.
It feels like a house tongue-cleaned every day by literal servants. Which is vgh to me, but has nothing to do with "not lived it".

>>715417968
>you don't get a personal story of any of the inhabitants
Anon you get like 5 of those.

>>715425480
Literally fucking wrong. If you are going to bait at least use a bait where the real answer has already been posted in the thread.

>>715423331
>it's the greatest puzzle game of all time
Not really, but it is alright. Seething ITT is all actual literal clinical autists who fundamentally cannot be satisfied because their brains are broken.

I personally do not get the gripe about not having an ending - the game works even without a traditional one, and it works thematically with the "does it never end" shtick as well as Herberts wish for Simon to forge his own path whether that aligns with family tradition or something else entirely. If it did have a definitive ending it would defeat the point of those story beats.

I don't play a game for an ending (although a "good" ending is always nice), a game is always about the journey more so than what ties it up nicely at its conclusion. A good game imo cannot be ruined by a terrible ending, but a fantastic ending can never make up for a horrid game.

>>715416486
half of the game is piecing together the story. no that's not background info, that is actually the story and how the Sinclair family and Simon is tied to it. It's also about a mother's love for her child and how tradition compels her to do things contrary to such feelings. it's about a guy who was given everything except her mother's love. it's so many things, if you pay attention and take notes.

>>715418101
>But holy fuck is it tedious.
This.

AK succeeded with a browser game, and it mindbroke him into only being able to create browser games since then. It also castrates the Secret Histories setting with it's "muh comfy" vibes.

>in an external excel spreadsheet
I actually signed shelves for that.

>>715411796 (OP)
>Okay so Simon is the one true heir of the original kingdom
I didn't get far enough to get that detail I thought it was just that your mother and some of her friends were rebels that stole the crown as a statement and your Simon never really knew my his mother vanished and his Uncle thought that the 'big puzzlehouse bonanza' he was already planning for his heir would be a great time to disclose that info to Simon without anyone overhearing/finding out that he was complicit with the crown theft
Somehow having him be the rightful fucking king makes the whole thing even more retarded, it was perfectly fine when it was just what I described/the extent I already knew it.

Anyway the game takes way too long in the late game and RNG bullshit.

>>715411796 (OP)
rogue like rng bullshit, game has a cool concept but it went too far with the randomization

>>715426038
>it works thematically with the "does it never end"
kind of insane when you think about it in the context of the chain of stars
like at some point you gotta stop yourself

>>715426038
>a fantastic ending can never make up for a horrid game.
Black Souls 1 does it. The ending salvaged an otherwise unremarkable, mediocre game. And I'd rank it higher than 13 Sentinels, which has a great start but a disappointing ending.

>>715426234
>Black Souls 1
Go away.

>>715426234
bs1 is just crap, in general.

>>715426075
>I actually signed shelves for that.
I think it might be a QoL addition added later. I played it near release and don't remember it being a thing at all.
Either that, or I'm retarded and never noticed you could do that.

>>715426216
Whats funny is that if you don't stop yourself the game does it for you. If you actually sit there and get to the end the day just ends.

>>715411796 (OP)
>spoilers
Isn't that the basic premise of the plot at the very start? Where are the spoilers?

>>715426038
Except this entire story is explained within the first hour. There's nothing more to be gleaned from walking around the mansion, and it's a very dull story to begin with.

Blue Prince is a fantastic example of a game where the story is a massive detriment. There are no revelations, what you think is going on in the first hour is what is actually going on and the few additions you find make no change to this.

>>715411828
>don't get me wrong

>>715426503
what do you mean? like as in the day ends with the progress of time or what? I never bothered to wait that long

>>715427195
"our day will immediately end if you ever attempt to add another word to Spiral of Stars"

Once you finish the spiral if you ever touch it again the game just ends the day on you.

>>715426038
It is background info, period. Especially since the game doesn't even bother to resolve it.

>>715426558
>Except this entire story is explained within the first hour.
that's the premise, not the story

>There's nothing more to be gleaned from walking around the mansion, and it's a very dull story to begin with.
That's just patently false. As I said half the game is figuring out the story (and world and setting) based on environmental observations, puzzles and notes.

>Blue Prince is a fantastic example of a game where the story is a massive detriment. There are no revelations, what you think is going on in the first hour is what is actually going on and the few additions you find make no change to this.
This sounds like the drivel of someone who did not play the game or someone who watched someone else play it.

I know this is an obvious bait but going point for point with a blatant lie is the best way to debunk it.

>>715426574
>making use of basic english is reddit
I fucking hate you newfaggots, holy shit.

>>715411796 (OP)
The game turning out to be a monarchist propaganda was the most surprising thing about it.

>>715428349
Redditspeech is technically a variation of English, yes

The ending when you unlock the 46th room is enough.

>>715416428
>puzzle requires three specific rooms and five different items on the same day
>one of the rooms, a dead end, freezes your gems, limiting your future draft options
>the other room, also a dead end, screws you with more frequent red rooms
They just dick you all over trying to get everything from the freezer.

Is there any point in going back to room 46 once I've got it, or should I just focus on getting new rooms? Like is it similar to Binding of Isaac where each time you clear the game you get more information? Can you actually go inside the room or is it just a cutscene?

>>715429876
Well its not as bad as that. The furnace unfreezes your gems if you stand next to it. Its still bad though. Just don't enter the freezer until the furnace is down.

>>715429887
Yes. Some rooms trigger when you enter 46, there are also puzzles in 46. Room 46 is the start of mid game.

>>715429887
There are items, notes, and puzzles inside Room 46 that you aren't given a chance to interact with on your first entry.

>>715430109
>>715430143
Awesome, thank you

>>715429876
>puzzle requires three specific rooms and five different items on the same day
Um, no. It's either "TWO specific rooms" (Freezer and Furnace), or two specific items (Magnifying Glass and Metal Detector), or three other specific items (Lever + Battery pack + Hammer). You don't ave to do all the breaking and melting in one day. Furnace and igniter both melt some of the same things, and a small subset unique to either, so you can do both on different days. Wall-breaking is persistent so you can do it entirely separately.

>screws you with more frequent red rooms
More frequent red rooms is actually good once you remember that you have a three digit IQ, especially once the Furnace is already out of the deck. Restroom is literally the only downside.

>>715429887
>Is there any point in going back to room 46 once I've got it
Eeeeh, a little bit?

>or should I just focus on getting new rooms
If you don't have all the rooms and upgrades, yeah, focus on those plus any puzzles you didn't figure out yet since some of them give persistent mechanical advantages.

>>715427486
there is resolution though, but not in a typical game "ending" where there is a cutscene.
how is what I contend as "story" merely background info?
just because the exposition in Blue Prince is non-traditional does not mean there is no story. you could say you do not like how it is presented - environmentally and with subtext, but you cannot just deny it exists. a large part of why the Blue Prince story works well is exactly because of its structure and presentation, else it's just a slightly above average story about the push and pull between tradition and carving your own path.

anon you don't just say "period" in a sentence and somehow that makes it irrefutable - expound and let's examine your thoughts.