Is SMT 4 a good place to start playing SMT games? (I like Persona so I wanted to try SMT)

Probably the best since 1 and 2 are memes and 3 is acquired taste
4 is the one that is the most like a regular JRPG

>>715652349
Oh and 5 is just 3 again but with more cutscenes

>>715652196 (OP)
Play SMT4 if you want a beginner friendly SMT if you can get past the first two bosses that is
Play SMT4A if you want more Persona
Play Nocturne if you want to experience the essence of SMT
Play SJ for absolute fucking kino
Play SMTV if you're a tranny

>>715652196 (OP)
Maybe. I tried 1 and 4 but I didn't like any of them

>>715652196 (OP)
Start with Strange Journey, it's a mainline SMT game in all but title.

If you're already acquainted with Persona then you can start anywhere.
SMT4 has a ton of gameplay issues but the soundtrack and atmosphere are great.

>>715653160
Best DS cover ever made

>>715652196 (OP)
No start with SMTI, SMTIII, SMTSJ, or SMTV. SMTIV sucks.

It's way too easy and the story is retarded.

If you're a purseowner fan you'll feel right at home but it's a poor example of the rest of the series.

>>715652196 (OP)
i played nocturne it is good just you need to watch what skills you overwrite you cant learn it again

>>715652196 (OP)
Damn this thread is shit with all the replies you got. If you want an easy accessible Shin Megami Tensei game go with SMT3 HD or SMT5. The HD remaster isn't better because of muh graphics or voice acting, but because they patched in manual skill selection in fusion. Trust me this is the biggest quality of life change. Not even vanilla Persona 4 PS2 had manual skill selecting for fusions. So depending on which you start, SMT3 HD Remaster or SMT5 Vengance (get Vengeance ignore vanilla unless you have no money), you can branch out further.

SMT4 is two games, the vanilla and sequel SMT4 Apocalypse. Play them in order, the sequel assumes you played the best Neutral ending path of SMT4. Strange Journey is an acquired taste, not because its in first person, but because a lot of the mechanics are about survival more than anything else. You can fuse in the middle of battle, Strange Journey is definitely my favorite but it's not for everyone. Get the 3DS Redux, ignore anyone who says vanilla Strange Journey because they are out of their minds about how obnoxious the game is without the quality of life changes the 3DS remaster brings.

1 and 2 aren't translated by ATLUS so you'll have to play on PC with English fan patches. The Raidou games aren't that great mechanically, but they're fun for their atmosphere like it's an old Toonami cartoon series vibe at midnight. Even though I think the SMT4 duology are better than SMT5 Vengeance, you might get shellshocked from hardcore they are.

SMT4 has some of the best atmosphere of the series

>>715652196 (OP)
Yes, its one of the harder ones, even on normal, if you get beaten to much just try smt vv, it waaay more friendly at the beginning

>>715654937
>SMT3 HD
>The HD remaster isn't better because of muh graphics or voice acting, but because they patched in manual skill selection in fusion.
Absolute garbage opinion.

>>715654937
>Get the 3DS Redux
You can safely ignore whatever this fag is spewing.

IV is simultaneously quintessential and rather mediocre. It has a plethora of hallmarks that are present throughout the franchise, and it's not a particular strong entry. It's actually close to feeling generic in some cases, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you start with it and want more out of the formula, there will be plenty points to jump to from IV.
Nocturne is too different from the norm by ditching alignments for Reasons, and all but abandoning the sci-fi elements.
Entries for the PSX, Super Famicom, or earlier are much harder to get into. Hindsight is 20:20 in regards to how they're desperately missing mechanics that are underappreciated godsends in later entries, such as the Demon Compendium itself.
Strange Journey ditches the Tokyo setting entirely and you won't find any other entry quite like it in anything but the alignment branches and dungeon-crawling.
V, as well as VV, are polished to the point that a lot about the franchise feels sanded off.

>>715655441
I turned the voices off entirely when I played it
A long time after I had played the original
Didn't really notice any changes unless they bugfixed some of of the skills that were fucked before or something

>>715655441
You're lying to yourself if you think rerolling the totally random skill selection until you stop getting Talk skills and 99% of the time stop getting Expel/Death/Mind/Nerve/Curse skills is better than just picking the inherited skills yourself. Even SJ is better than that because you can manipulate things with D-Sources, and it's not random outside of that.

>>715655935
The HD Remaster fixed something with Dante so he has Pierce now and can be used in one of the superboss ending fights.
>>715655441
>>715655536
retards diagnosed at birth by the way.

>>715652196 (OP)
It's my favorite game ever! Though I did play Nocturne before it. Beware though, the games difficulty is really frontloaded. After the first few hours it mellows out.

>>715656116
All they had to do to make it fair in this regard is add a dedicated reroll button and maaaybe let you select one skill for inheritance. Giving you an option to create overpowered giganigga demons/personas without any effort feels plain wrong even if rerolling was an absolute pain in the ass originally.

>>715652196 (OP)
Yes. The enviroments look great, the va is very good (english), the vn style fits it perfectly. The demons all look ugly though.

>>715656116
Unrestricted skill inheritance is pure garbage and THE worst addition in the franchise by far. Shoving it into games it wasn't designed for makes it even worse. It's like being forced into super safety difficulty.

>>715652196 (OP)
If you like saving after every demon encounter, sure. The game is cool but the amount of times I just get hit a demon, get chain hit by all my weaknesses and die without getting a turn made me want to break my system

>>715657868
I agree, they should had patched out resetting for skills so that you always get the same ones depending on a save file seed
The entire point was to make fusions be random

>>715652196 (OP)
Honestly I think the game is just a worse version of strange journey, just play that instead if you want a portable SMT game or play nocturne instead

>>715652196 (OP)
Since it's the worst in the franchise it's probably a good start. If you play it after the others you won't like it as much

>>715652196 (OP)
Its my favorite game of all time.

>>715652196 (OP)
I fell in love with the series thanks to SJ

It's pretty expensive if you wanna buy a physical copy now.

I wonder why you niggas are so divisive about SMT4's difficulty. It isn't THAT hard, how many are you are zoomers who got a 3DS and it was your first foray into Shin Megami? Like if you have no prior knowledge it can make a tough first impression, but as someone who's played them before I do agree they're hard in the first hour but both SMT4 simmer down once you get to like level 40s you don't get first turn party wiped anymore. It can happen to you too in SMT3's first hours as well.

how's Soul Hackers
Is it easier than DS SJ?

>>715658568
super easy game

>>715658568
It's harder than SMT 4 at least

>Is [spreadsheet simulator #1235] harder than [spreadsheet simulator #1236]?
Why are rpgtroons like this?

>>715659245
why do you love sucking cock

>>715659245
>I'm an ADHD gen Zoom Zoom kid by the way.
Back to Fortnite daycare little kiddo.

>>715658568
Pretty easy but also kind annoying to play.
>>715658497
I imagine most people that hype up the difficulty either quit at Minotaur/Medusa but to be honest I haven't see anyone really say it's anything but a super easy game.

>>715658568
very easy if you know the cheese strats, unparalleled aesthetic carries the game hard

I HATE FUCKING HATE ZOOMERS. BE GONE FROM THIS THREAD GEN Z.

Strange journey is the best the franchise can ever offer in terms of story, characters and gameplay in general

Most other games have some varying level of stupidity. I really fucking hated the "school" shit from 4 despite liking the setting

>>715657868
There is literally zero skill involved in fusion with RANDOMIZED skill inheritance. Just press circle and cross a few times and get what you want, which isn't hard or time-consuming. Strange Journey without passwords or D-Sources is "harder" because you have to actually know how inheritance even works to get the demon you wanted. Nocturne is just random outside of a handful of inheritance types like "Weapon" or "Eye". Are you really going to say that no longer requiring rerolls from RANDOMNESS to get what you actually wanted is casualization? Because Compendiums, which remove the randomness of Demon Negotiation to do more fusions, even existing is already casualization by your logic. Compendiums certainly weren't a thing UNTIL Nocturne.

>>715653024
SMT 1 is the essence of SMT

>>715660590
Demons are very biased to certain types of skills, anyone who's tried to fuse something and constantly getting Zio and Ziodyne together knows this. It's still not hard, but it is most certainly time consuming.

>>715657868
If you can select skills, you're a journalist. Just deal with the brainless RNG and worthless skills until you get what you actually wanted.
If you have to reroll skills or reload from accidents, you're a casual. Just deal with the hand you're dealt.
If you have to use the Compendium, you're a baby. Go and find the ingredients and fuse everything all over again until you get that perfect Beelzebub.

>>715660590
>There is literally zero skill involved in fusion with RANDOMIZED skill inheritance.
You're a retard that has no idea how the system works.
Go ahead and show me a Surt with Bufudyne in the original. Should be easy if it's all random, right?

>>715660590
>Just press circle and cross a few times and get what you want
>a few

>>715653024
You haven't played any of those games.

>>715660924
>skill = time wasted
nobody will ever believe this no matter how hard you insist it's true

>>715661030
I mean there would be an easy solution to that. Just disallow demons that don't have preferences towards skills to not be able to inherit those skills. I believe the Persona games do that.

>>715660736
It is still random, inheritance chances aside. It's fucking nothing but canceling and confirming to get what you want. This adds nothing to the game. And if the game's easy once you get what you're trying to get, which 99% of the time involves having none of these elements because they're genuinely worthless in boss fights
>Expel
>Death
>Mind
>Nerve
>Curse
>Talk
...then the game itself is just already easy. At that point, the only difference in skill between an HD player and a Maniax player on the same difficulty setting would be that the HD player did not waste time with rerolls. And even then, having access to Daisoujou will trivialize a majority of the game. Unless someone genuinely believes that knowing not to level Wu Kong past 55 so he doesn't have a chance to pass on Dark Pledge is considered skillful, randomness isn't difficult; it's just tedious. If a game is worse for being able to pick your skills from the ingredients, the game is by design easy once the illusion of RNG is lifted. You might as well say breeding in Pokemon is hard. Why? Because the RNG is there.

>>715652196 (OP)
It's where I started. Pretty hard intro if you are new to SMT and its mechanics. That said, I prefer SMT3. I did not care for SMT5/5V.

>>715661459
Go breed Pokemon and tell me how hard it is with more RNG than Nocturne skill inheritance.

>>715652196 (OP)
Yes

>>715652196 (OP)
i only played the first one but it's not as hard as people say it is (actually i played 5 first but got filtered by the first major boss, so if anything the later games seem harder), for half the game you're gunning down fools puttin' em to sleep with no demons on your team. that said the encounter rate is ridiculous especially in the final dungeon which is so long it made me stop fully mapping places (don't do that btw it's totally unnecessary). there's a spell called estoma which removes all encounters in an area until you go back to the overworld, so if you start with 1 you should get that as soon as possible.

>>715652196 (OP)
yeah

>>715661798
It's not completely random. Once you know how it works, you can very easily get what you want.
But considering how you think all those elements are worthless because they aren't good on most bosses, you just aren't intelligent enough to figure out inheritance.

>>715661798
>randomness isn't difficult; it's just tedious
Yes, everyone knows this, and we keep saying it every time you bring up these retarded argument, quite literally in the posts you're replying to. You would know this if you actually read them instead of crying about nothing.

>>715660736
In Nocturne I think only tier and body type matter (Like weapon, mouth, lunge, ect). Higher tier skill = Rarer chance to inherit necessitating reroll.

>>715652196 (OP)
4 is alright I guess, I'm kind of a 4 hater and as I play the classics (played SMT1 PSX like last year, playing SMT2 SNES right now, 3 was my first mainline game I played like a decade ago) it really only solidifies my dislike for it, but I know lots of people do like it so you may like it as well.

>>715661362
When there's only around 4 or 5 slots on average that you'd need to reroll for and most of the dogshit would be through level ups, it'd only take a few minutes to get what you want in the end. I guess mutations would be harder to manipulate.

>>715662180
Elemental affinity does as well.

>>715662321
Mutations are an autism rabbit hole I dare not even go down. The amount of save scumming required to get what you want.

3 isn't even hard enough to justify that, even on hard.

I'm playing through apocalypse right now and I swear to god if Asahi will cream her pants over me recruiting a demon one more time I'm gonna break something, jesus christ girl just shut the fuck up for a minute

I absolutely ADORED the atmosphere but the game was too damn easy. It's a shame.

>>715662482
don't worry it will stop eventually

>>715662038
high random encounter rates is what the auto battle function is for. once you know you can smoke a mob encounter after entering a dungeon for the first time you let the fights play out automatically, only stepping in to heal when/if shit goes south, or topping off between fights.

>>715652196 (OP)
Start with KMT on the SNES. MT2 in particular is necessary to fully get the allusions throughout the entire series.

>>715653024
SMT3 is the worst of mainline besides if…
It also is only “the essence of smt” if you started with it. If you started with any other game, its dogshit.
>>715653160
SJ is also a great starting game.

>>715652503
Nocturne may as well have a total of 4 cutscenes, so that is not a bad thing.

>>715662824
>SMT3 is the worst of mainline besides if…
>It also is only “the essence of smt” if you started with it. If you started with any other game, its dogshit.
I started with 4, but 3 is my favorite by far.

>>715662618
>>715662482
Is she the main character's groupie friend? I forgot her name, she also calls the main character Nanashi. There's this amazing cutscene when the Christ Lawfag dude with a spear tells her straight to her face
>You are a poser, a groupie deadweight, I would kick you out of the group if I was the leader here
She **LITERALLY** fucking cried and left the room after that hahahahha. I loved it, I can't stand that childhood friend trope. People who say SMT4 Apocalypse is a PERSONA GAME only look at face value. That shit was amazing, I kept that guy around for the banter. Plus Dagda was an asshole to everyone.

Why does the schizo keep making these threads all the time and then shitting up any other smt thread he finds?

>>715662987
Yeah she dies, permanently.
>dude spoilers
Game is 20 years old

>>715663069
I like the blonde with the huge tits in SMT4 Apocalypse. Thank God.

>>715663106
That one backstabs you

>>715662180
That doesn't mean a whole lot when Mouth and Thrust or Weapon are the only really worthwhile inherits, especially when compared with Eye, Talk, or the joke that is Wing. Higher ranks also mean little when most of the best staple skills are ranked 5-8 out of 14, which is a failing on Nocturne's balance. I'm not even sure if it's true that something like Jack Frost is more likely to inherit Ice skills, as skill types appear only limited to what a demon could inherit or not based on their anatomy.

>>715663150
Not really, you just go to timeout jail for a little bit. I would not consider it a backstab desu.

>>715652196 (OP)
4 has the distinction of being the single best example of non-random encounters in a JRPG.

Play Shin Megami Tensei 5 and marry Yoko.

>>715663185
Dumb simp.

>>715663260
Play Strange Journey and marry Frost Ace.

>>715663176
One guide I'm reading to refresh my memory mentions that inheritance type determines what type of skills a demon is more likely to inherit. These types are: Phys, Healing, Fire, Ice, Elec, Force, Magic, Expel, Death, Support (buffs).

I can't seem to find a list, but some of them can probably be guessed fairly easily like Jack Frost being ice.

>>715663260
Already did, multiple times in pursuit 100%

I picked Tao once and it was awful.

>>715663191
It's cute, but come on.
DQXI does it better, SMT V does it better.
Even Earthbound and Mother 3 make it better.

>>715663191
>4 has the distinction of being the single best example of non-random encounters in a JRPG.
not even close, it's a generic symbol encounter implementation but with a dumb QTE to not eat an ambush, or to use estoma. the later tales of games does it better with your ability to stun enemies with a fireball launched from Mieu or a sorcerer's ring instead

>>715663381
based traditional tard wife

>>715663419
Nope, DQXI is a bunch of retards strolling around a park, and if they notice you, they throw a little retard fit and run slower than a toddler. You must not have played it.

>>715652196 (OP)
Smt1 on psx has a translation just start from there

>>715663362
This doesn't sound right but I'll believe it if we had a list of what demon is more likely to inherit what beyond the anatomy inherits. Even the shitty Nocturne tabletop lets you pick skills freely beyond anatomy.

>>715662987
>People who say SMT4 Apocalypse is a PERSONA GAME only look at face value.
they just never played the game
there's a murder loli that orgasms on screen ffs
I WISH purse owner had shit like that instead of the gay and endless non-combat segments

I own more physical Shin Megami Tensei titles than the emulator PC pirate babies who need a Save State baby training wheel to play turn based RPGs.

Are there mods that make V's MC look less homosexual?

>>715663563
>he has to backtrack to save
lmao

>>715663563
Post them with timestamp.

>>715663563
Cool story but we're all virgins here, no need to compare dick sizes if no one's using them.

>>715663620
no but there's some that make him more homosexual

>he doesn't remember when Persona used to have Shin Megami Tensei in the title for Western releases
Persona 4 Golden removed SMT from the moniker.

>>715663381
She'd be a 12/10 if she didn't have that dyke asymetrical haircut.

>>715663839
Oh no, the overseas marketing changed.

>>715663506
As opposed to a bunch of tard diamonds roaming around and only really posing a threat in those narrow meat dungeons.

>>715663839
it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand he's talking about mainline SMT anon, obviously he understands Persona is a spinoff otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned it at all in his post

>>715663927
ATLUS USA was rebranded to ATLUS West. The West has fallen.

>>715652196 (OP)
Yes, it's probably one of the better places to start, difficulty isn't too hard for an SMT game so you can get used to the combat.

>>715663845
her hair is CUTE and STYLISH and you will SHUT UP

>>715652196 (OP)
>Is SMT 4 a good
No.
One of the three endings requires you to complete almost every single sidequest. This will take dozens of hours for no real reason. There's a 33% chance you'll get screwed by this game's morality system.

>>715663949
No as opposed to
>will eventually just fucking jump you if you go long enough without a fight, hope you have godlike reflexes
>some can actually outrun you, so you have to use the environment to your advantage
>if they notice you, they will basically never relent
Absolutely nothing like the retards running around in modern DQ games or whatever.

>>715663563
You must be really fucking young if you can still tolerate the ridiculous time it takes to load a saved game in JRPGs. Holy fucking shit why are they all so damn cumbersome in this regard.

>>715664086
Her thighs sold me. Billions of children must be birthed from her womb.

>>715664381
vengeance is thoroughly thighpilled and I couldn't be happier

>>715663518
Only took 3 rolls to get Jack frost with a Fire skill so maybe it's not a thing.

made for crushing my skull slowly and painfully

>>715663831
>more
I'm afraid to ask how, he's already a 100% prancing la-la homo man after the fusion.

>>715664553
the issues come when you're fusing two or three components with a full eight skills each to pull from, making the biases much more pronounced

>>715652196 (OP)
I'd say it's the absolute worst one to start, particularly because of the whole guest artist demon designs. The game is quite bad overall other than having a nice atmosphere but it's the only one that really relies on you already knowing the common themes of previous games. Without having playing 1 and 2 before it, the story is completely senseless (not that it makes sense even if you do but at least you'll get the references which is something I guess)

Either start with 1 or Nocturne (3), 5 is fine too. If you like dungeon crawlers the first 2 megatens on the famicom are quite interesting too. Wouldn't really recommend starting with spin-offs either.

I can't believe Idun became a runaway success but not lovable Beelzebub caveman design who hasn't been seen since SMT3.

>>715664658
I'm still not 100% convinced skill type matters. I think it's people just trying to make sense of something random.

>>715664553
>>715664658
trial and erroring skills through fusion is not a big issue, you can pass what you want easily regardless of affinities, I didn't even know that was a factor when I played

>>715665165
try using him for black frost and see how many times you get bufu and bufudyne together

>>715653024
>Play SMT4A if you want more Persona
¿

>>715665102
Fred Flinstone only really feels right in nocturne with demon evolution. P3+ have them as separate demons and it's weird and lame.

>>715665165
What were the component demons?

>>715665653
Pyro Jack + Aeros with Mothman (The one from Amala that has all the elemental skills) as sacrifice. All the elemental skills seemed just as likely to get on him as any other.

I'm sure it can get more annoying with more skills in the mix, but I just couldn't find any bias in the skills rolled anecdotally.

>>715665849
Oh, as expected Tier did seem to matter a lot with Pyro's Agi and Aeros' Zan rolling more often than the higher tier skills but other than that.

play Dx2
please

Alice has been replaced on my team by Nahibino Jack.

>>715661798
I remember playing nocturne normally as just trying shit 4-5 times and going with whatever is common. Not rerolling shit for five hours

>>715666620
demons don't really need more than 3-4 skills to do their job so going full autism for 8 skill builds is purely a vanity pursuit, or if you want a lot of ailment nulls to make lucifer less annoying

>>715666773
Either that or just a project demon that's OP just for bragging rights. Like I said before, 3 isn't really hard enough to justify that level of autism.

SMT IVA is such wasted potential kino. It's the FF8 of Atlus Games. Fuck man, for the longest time I couldn't even tell if they can even hear Dagda most of the time only for Asahi to directly reference him and it's so fucking stupid since most of the time it's Dagda saying some edgy shit and the cast just completely ignoring him lmfao.

>>715652196 (OP)
yes.
literally ignore anyone who tells you no, its the best entry in the series bare none.
>Probably the best since 1 and 2 are memes and 3 is acquired taste
1 is unique, it has the darkest atmosphere of all of SMT and i would genuinely call it a horror RPG, its relentlessly depressing and just a slow descent into death.
10/10 kino as fuck.
should be the second entry you play after 4.

>>715667075
>Oh that wacky Dagda, going on about killing everyone!
The alternative IS funnier to be fair.

>>715666902
late game I was making null all fiends I wouldn't even use just because fusion is so much fun

>>715667179
Don't even get me started how fucked up friendship route is. I mention it so many times but an easy fix for Friendship/Anarchy is just to not revive Asahi. You can have her whole revival at the end of the game as a bonus or whatever or a reward for defeating YHVH sure. But Dagda should've been using that to stir you into Anarchy and it would've made 200% more sense to pick it. Otherwise, you feel intentionally WAY too edgy picking it out of nowhere even with good intentions.

>>715667493
Oh I 100% agree with that sentiment. Really twist that knife in the player if they had any feelings for Asahi.

>>715652349
>the best two games are memes
Hot take.

>>715667107
>its the best entry in the series bare none
If it's the only one you've ever played or you just listen to the OST, sure. Tell me the Neutral ending, both the requirements to get it and the actual route itself, make perfect sense. You can end up so Neutral by the final alignment lock question that you're locked into Law or Chaos, because the game doesn't have Neutral choices. Tell me that Johnathan and Walter both witnessing Infernal and Blasted Tokyo and still proposing those results is good writing. Tell me the game is actually even reasonable in difficulty for anything beyond the overtuned superbosses once you get past Medusa.

>>715666031
I tried it last week and it's complete dogshit because of all the mobile game shit bringing it down. It's a shame because the story was somewhat interesting.

>>715667493
I think Dagda even tempting you with the revival that you can only do through siding with him would be smart writing. He already lets you pick a goddess, so why not tempt Nanashi with giving him his closest companion back as a soulless husk of a bride? Frame it as choosing your living friends (and Navarre) or your oldest and deceased friend.

>>715667873
The neutral route being such a narrow alignment window was such a retarded decision. needing to use a guide to make sure you get the actual route that's longer than the others is so boring.

>>715665849
>sacrifice
Oh, that explains it. That has different rules compared to normal fusion.

Yeah except you need emulation.
The game is essentially perfect but it's so fucking easy (this is not really a problem if you are a newbie)

>>715667493
The Dagda 2.0 shit is also really bad.

>>715667873
I still can't figure out why the challenge just dies out after Medusa. There's always a sort of Early game difficulty to SMT games but it's extra true in 4 except it drops off a fucking cliff.

>>715668329
>Revives and mindfucks Dagda
>This is supposed to be considered the 'good' ending?
Honestly a little more fucked up than anything in Anarchy desu.

>>715668332
1, 2, and 3 are the only ones with proper difficulty curves.

>>715668332
No defense stat outside of Ma, I guess, because I was getting OTKOs on the Kunitsu bosses. Once you're out of early game hell and your options open up, the game is immediately torn apart in difficulty. While Nocturne doesn't have a defense stat period, the earlier games I feel don't give you enough options to abuse.

>>715668403
You can literally do this with any demon that was being an asshole in your way.

>>715668413
I'm playing 1 right now and I have no idea wym about difficulty curve. Everything is a fucking curbstomp except for the rare "haha I mudo'd half your team". but holy hell that encounter rate is starting to be REALLY fucking annoying. I s2fg I'm about to enable cheats to just stop encounters for a while.

IV is a spiritual successor to SMT I, to the point that the leads (Flynn (furin), Jonathan (yonatan), Walter (warutaa)) are named after the code names of the leads of the original (Futsuo (normal guy), Yoshio (good guy), Waruo (bad guy)). The main character of I is from Kichijoji while the main character of IV is from "Kiccigiorgi". There's a very standard Law / Neutral / Chaos dichotomy with multiple route bosses, with Neutral being the definitely canon route where you fight both final bosses. There are also references to the original Megami Tensei with bosses like the Minotaur and Medusa.

IV Apocalypse, meanwhile, takes more inspiration from SMT II and Megami Tensei II, which was a sequel to SMT I and Megami Tensei I. Both IV and Apocalypse are their own distinct identities nonetheless, and they have my favorite OST of the series.

III (Nocturne) was a bit of a black sheep at the time simply for being somewhat different to the typical alignment dichotomy of the numbered games that preceded and followed it and completely dropping the cyberpunk elements. The game is more mystical with no sci-fi. In recent years, V has served as a spiritual successor while still containing more traditional SMT elements.

Strange Journey takes place in Antarctica and has an orchestral OST, it's traditional SMT other than that and is also pretty Etrian Odyssey.
SMT if... is basically Persona 0 with Guardians (ie. Stands, proto-Personas).
SMT NINE is an Xbox game with nine different factions only released in Japan.
SMT IMAGINE is an MMO follow-up to NINE

>>715669056
The difficulty ramps up once you get to Ginza and the Police Station.
>I'm about to enable cheats to just stop encounters for a while.
Just use Estoma bro.

>>715669170
Do you even get Estoma this early? I just got to the post apocalypse

>>715669205
Kushinada-Hime has it. She's level 28.

Nocturne endings

Law (standard endings)
>Shijima + Hikawa
>Musubi + Isamu
>Yosuga + Chiaki

Neutral (bad ending)
>Show hesitation to Aradia and get locked out of fighting the final boss

Chaos (true ending)
>Unnamed reason (Freedom) + Yuko

Chaos+ (rerelease bonus content ending)
>Fight Lucifer

>>715669374
Yuko is neutral (good) not chaos you dingus.

>>715669374
None of the Reason endings are Law. They're straight Chaos.

>>715660602
You can steamroll SMT1/2 by abusing bullets effects and it’s super easy to break the fusion mechanism, so gameplay wise, I think more modern episodes have more to offer.
Thematically and in atmosphere, 1&2 are peak 90s classic Megaten era tho.

>>715669441
>>715669512
Her "unnamed Reason of freedom" is inherently Chaos, she just doesn't have the resolve to fully develop it which is why you're needed. Freedom is Chaos. Kagutsuchi accepts you in all three regular Reason endings because you're playing by the rules of the universe. All three endings are near identical, they follow the same template. But "Freedom" is Kagutsuchi becoming enraged by you for trying to bring back the world you want and rejecting this standard process of the universe. You get a completely unique ending, Lucifer emails you and praises you, telling you that you've become an enemy to the universe but he will stand by your side. It's very obviously the true ending of the base game, and Nocturne's entire concept was to be a game about Chaos, hence the Demi-fiend's ultimate title for mastering all Magatama that carries over into other games being "King of Chaos". In comparison, II was a game centered around Law.

>>715669512
Did you speedread everything the Lady in Black and Lucifer said? The Conception is a scam designed to get humans to iterate one world after another into what the Absolute One wants.
>Kagutsuchi... It is the light whose sole purpose is to empower the one who will oversee creation. Creation is the act of bringing a new world into existence, made possible by the annihilation of the old world. Kagutsuchi will allow a life form of its choosing to determine the course of the new world. There must be those in Tokyo who yearn to be chosen by Kagutsuchi, in order to realize their vision. The shape of the world to come depends on who is chosen...and what their Reason is. In the vast Amala Universe, this Vortex World is not the only place where creation occurs. Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places. There are millions--no, billions of worlds that you are unaware of, and they all experience the cycle of death and rebirth. That is the way of Amala, as determined by the Great Will.
And this is what Kagutsuchi says about the "Freedom" ending
>...The Great Will once granted the world freedom, in hopes that it would evolve to a new level. However, it was that freedom which gave rise to evil, brought darkness, and led darkness the world to destruction... Freedom is the seed of disaster: its sole fruit is ruin. I will not allow the world to be doomed to failure! My power was meant for one who sought the world's rebirth, upholding a worthy Reason! Hero, you have become a slave of freedom, like that fallen angel! Begone, demon! My light, searing with anger, shall wipe you from existence!

>>715669863
No, SMT3 wanted to move on from alignments in general and did so.

>>715670036
I don't care what the English translation of the expansion bonus content says.
A tool of YHVH (the Conception) was hijacked by outside forces (Hikaru) and some opportunists (Isamu/Chiaki) mucked things up further.
If you think going against YHVH from minute 1 is Law, I've got a bridge to sell you.

If Atlus does a remake of SMT4, should they keep 4/A separate or try to unite their storylines?

>>715654589
>The demon laughed me, called me stupid, and bit me in the face killing me.
Always a hearty kek with that one

>>715670263
They're two totally different stories running in parallel, trying to combine them would be retarded.

Ideally it'd just be a double pack but given their track record with remasters it would be a barebones HD port of 4 that wouldn't sell meaning no FINAL at all

>>715670263
Way too messy to try and unite the storylines. 4A is explicitly stated to be an offshoot of Neutral Flynn's universe and it's only Dagda's interference with Nanashi that causes the split.

I wouldn't be opposed to a remake backporting 4A gameplay though. I don't think anyone will object to 4A being an improvement over 4 in that regard.

>>715670185
If you don't care what the canon via supplementary material within the game says, provide proof that in the original script for the original Japanese release, Kagutsuchi does not loathe the Demi-fiend in the Freedom ending. That burden of proof lies with you. Playing by the rules of the creation of the new world is a Lawful act. Why the fuck would ANGELS ever side with Chiaki if that was a Chaotic act? Yes, they moved away from Law vs. Chaos in gameplay, but this setting where the heavens are at odds with hell with humanity caught in the middle is going to be Law vs. Chaos from a storytelling perspective.

>>715670263
Separate but bundled.

>>715670591
I already explained it. Hikawa goes against YHVH at the start of the game for his own gain. Everyone else later follows along.
Going against YHVH for the whole game isn't Law.

>>715652196 (OP)
it's peak SMT
play the undubbed version with 3D turned on at all times

>>715670263
They're wholly separate and incompatible stories. IV:A takes place in a Neutral run of IV but things are thrown drastically off-course. They would have to instead just sell it as one package. I would however like it if IV got a remake that implemented gameplay mechanics from IV:A. But doing that with Hama/Mudo changes will be tricky because those actually deal damage in IV:A, and having all the bosses just immune to those two elements that would become proper damage types would feel stupid.

>some people actually think Atlus won't take every opportunity to nickle and dime customers
4 and 4F would 100% be two games for $40 USD each. At best you'll get a bundle that brings them both down to $75.

>>715670263
>remake
While Raidou is a relatively questionable turn of events, remakes are still clearly confined within the normalfag realm of big Persona bucks. Why would they remake IV and not just dump ports of their 3DS titles to current-gen systems?

>>715662482
>Game called "Apocalypse"
>Base IV envisions two shitty but interesting apocalyptic scenarios
>IV A is just shitting about in base IV's neutral route

>>715668413
>1 and 2
>Difficulty curves
laughs in shock and sleep

>>715669056
use estoma and auto battle. you should be stomping random encounters. they're basically balanced to be a minor resource drain and not to kill you unless they get lucky instant kills off, or you aren't paying attention to stop the auto battle if you get low, or if they're reflecting shit back at you

>>715671371
It's not called Apocalypse. Stop using the shitty localized name.

>>715671325
They'll probably get the EO treatment where the second screen gets shoved in a corner or something.

>>715659745
>Game is fairly easy outside ambush spawns
I remember one of the White putting a boot up my ass but I think I was unprepared. I can't name any other difficult bosses off the top of my head.

>>715670049
The fact that alignments are present in the game means they did a pretty bad job. You choose one of four sides (failing to choose a side whatsoever gets you a bad ending). These are alignments, because you ALIGN with them, whether they want to call them Law, Neutral, Chaos, or whatever. V doesn't call its endings Law, Neutral, or Chaos either.

But the fact is that the developers use the word Chaos (混沌; konton) to refer to Nocturne both inside and outside the game multiple times. The concept of freedom is the virtue of Chaos, and it's what Yuko's incomplete reason represents and what Aradia preaches. Meanwhile we call the other Reasons "Law" because it's the idea of playing the game and following its rules. We could call it Order, we could call it all manners of things, but Law just happens to be the thematic representation that fits it most. Even a dystopia can be a world of Law.

>still no smt game on a modern home console that has a similar setting to smt 2 or 4/4a
it isnt fucking fair. im so sick of this wasteland bullshit thats present in nocturne and 5

>>715670734
Yeah, and siding with angels like in Yosuga is definitely Chaos. Definitely. Retard.
Bringing about the Conception, even early, plays into the Great Will's hands. Are you genuinely retarded? Hikawa went against the Ring of Gaea and was considered a heretic for planning the Conception. The Conception is a universal constant.
>b-but the original release
If you remove all the Labyrinth of Amala content that Maniax added, the original release made ZERO mention of the Great Will or the Absolute One until the Freedom ending, which had Kagutsuchi decry the Demi-fiend's actions for foiling the Conception. The original release had Kagutsuchi deliberately resemble YHVH. The original release had all Reasons amount to a reasonable endgame for Law as you beseech Kagutsuchi. The original release had all Reasons rejected aside from either siding with Yuko or rendering humanity extinct forever, and Kagutsuchi considers the Demi-fiend despicable for either choice. The burden of proof lies with you that in the original release with the original Japanese text, going with the rules of Conception is NOT considered Law and that Hikawa was going against YHVH for bringing it about. Prove without a shadow of doubt that the Conception and Reasons are Chaos beyond surface level understanding. You cannot pull out the "English localization" and "rerelease retcon" cards without evidence that they are directly contradicting the Japanese text.

>>715670263
IV-Nothing
IV-Chaos
IV-Law
IV-Neutral (Nanashi doesn't take Dagda's offer)
IV-Neutral (Nanashi takes Dagda's offer) > IVA Law
IV-Neutral (Nanashi takes Dagda's offer) > IVA Chaos
IV-Neutral (Nanashi takes Dagda's offer) > IVA Bonds
IV-Neutral (Nanashi takes Dagda's offer) > IVA Massacre

The focal character changes when Nanashi is introduced into the story. You're no longer playing as Flynn, you don't carry anything over from Flynn, it's a different game. Maybe you could have IVA only unlock after completing IV-Neutral, or doing something in the IV-Neutral route, but I think it's better to just let players choose which game to start and give a warning that IVA takes place late into IV, specifically in its Neutral route. The benefit of having it in one pack would maybe be having an overarching compendium and bonus features that you reward each other's games.

>>715671771
There's also the fact that the Scripture of Miroku, in the very opening of the game no less, mentions that it is the Law of Creation in every version of the game, other than the original localized version of Maniax. Whether it's YHVH or Ahura Mazda or whatever who is in charge of the setting and put down the Scripture of Miroku is irrelevant; the Conception is objectively Lawful in this setting. Anyone claiming that Reasons are Chaos would have to be playing the neutered English release for the PS2 to think that. From the very beginning of the game it's clear that the Conception is Law, just not in the conventional sense.

>>715653024
>Play Nocturne if you want to experience the essence of SMT
Nocturne sucks ass and made V shitty by trying to be 3 v2.0

I wish they would just re-release their old games on Switch so I wouldn't have to deal with Citra anymore.

>>715672667
Citra is outdated, nigga. Look for a new 3DS emulator like azahar or whatever

>>715662038
>it made me stop fully mapping places (don't do that btw it's totally unnecessary).
Doesn't 1 have an auto mapper?

>>715666031
Id rather play soul hackers 2

>>715671771
>These are alignments, because you ALIGN with them
Congratulations on being the most socially inept person in the thread.

>>715673263
No.

>>715652196 (OP)
Yes (Do a dex build with guns if you want to fucking break the game)

>>715673316
why must you remind me that exists

>>715673509
I can't remember what I did when I played it anymore

>>715673263
>>715673458
it does actually, in the ps1 version which is what i was playing. in the snes original it still has a map but you have to go through a couple menus to get it so that plus some glitches that came with the translation made me pick that version. that said the glitches are pretty unlikely to actually happen from what it seems.

>>715673373
Congrats on being the most illiterate person, then. It just doesn't have hard Law and Chaos routes. But the setting still necessitates Law and Chaos.

>>715673458
I think there is. I think there's a mapper spell and I think you can bring up a full map in-game.

>>715670263
I'd rather have expanded 4A with a fully alternate dagda path starting from just after resurrection instead of it just being "guy says psychotic shit to anime characters for 90% of the game while no one takes it seriously, then he murders them all"

>>715667075
the game did dagda so dirty at end i just opted to forget it
>finally have a merciless entity driving you
>lol lmao power of friendship and some shit

>>715667075
Dagda is an incel, makes sense people ignore him.

>>715673830
Good, laugh at school shooter types

>>715670263
Id take a rewrite, SMT4 is missing hallf the game anyways

>>715673562
>the excitement from a seemingly Soul Hacker-related mysterious countdown to the absolute misery when the actual thing was revealed
Now that was an emotional rollercoaster.

>>715664112
Yeah, that's part of the problem. What's the point of having them on the map if they just spring up and jump you anyways? You might as well just make it random encounters instead. At least then, the Estoma spell would be more useful than the retarded sword.

>>715673594
>>715673635
You guys are retarded. Fully mapping means going through every tile. There's nothing in 1 that automatically reveals tiles you haven't stepped on.

>>715654937
>Nocturne baby
>Has the shittiest opinion
LMAO every. single. time.

>>715674330
oh i didn't know what he meant lol, yeah that's what i was doing. what even is an automapper then? because i thought it was just a map, specifically one that's assigned to a button rather than in a menu.

>>715664090
so pick a different ending? retard

>>715674330
>There's nothing in 1 that automatically reveals tiles you haven't stepped on.
>Fully mapping means going through every tile.
What the fuck are you on about?

>>715664090
>waaaah why is the secret ending difficult to get?
You're a retard.

>>715652196 (OP)
Yeah it's fine

>>715664090
it's a jrpg man, you're supposed to enjoy the sidequests. if you don't well that's what the other two endings are for.

>>715675790
>the series staple neutral ending is now suddenly a secret

>>715676014
God what a shit game. Never finished it even after switching it to easy just to see the ending.

newfag here, played VV last year and just finished 4 and 4A recently.
gonna start DeSu soon, what am in for?

>>715652196 (OP)
>no yugioh x smt

>>715676061
>Got filtered by the best game in the franchise
You're probably a nocturne baby lmao

I got Neutral ending blind on my first playthrough

>>715664090
It's not even every single side-quest, it's just a number of specific ones that have relevance in making Tokyo see you as a symbol of hope.

>>715676014
>the series staple secret ending that's always locked behind side quests is locked behind side quests

>>715676069
rude emails and anti-gravity titties

>>715675790
>Neutral
>secret
There's something to be said about how if you're perfectly Neutral just before the final alignment question, you'll end up Law or Chaos because there are no Law or Chaos choices. And that goes for the rest of the game as well, where Flynn has to act like he has a mental illness instead of being adamant about his view like other MCs who do have Neutral choices to make. That's the real secret to the Neutral ending, that ATLUS genuinely fucked up the requirements.

>>715676125
Nah, I cut my teeth on Jack Bros.

>>715676061
Why did you need to change it to easy? Devil Survivor is easy as fuck just use holy dance + drain and you win.

>people unironically picked the CoV chaos end without reading the fine print.

>>715676201
I didn't realize every other game forced you into a different alignment if you didn't do the right side quests

>>715676283
>Why did you need to switch to easy to reach the ending?
>Just grind for these Lv 9999+ end-game skills you probably won't use until the very final battle or in New Game+ runs
CAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO GRIND, GENIUS!

>>715663839
Um sweetie Persona is actually the alternative goddess tale to the goddess tale, not smt.

>>715676376
let me guess you made a balanced mc and found yourself doing dogshit damage at the end

>>715676294
I don't get what this is trying to convey.

>>715676432
Nah I was like mid-game. I got into a fight, lost bad, then spent 20+ minutes grinding the auction+fusion to make a team for a battle. I wound up completely decimating them with minimal losses. Then I got into the next battle and got absolutely creamed, and realized I knew what the winning strat was going to be, and it was going to be another 20+ minutes of grinding. I think I would have lived through that except I was also quickly starting to hate the story and the character's retarded ass philosophical takes so it was losing me really fast. That was really the final straw.

>>715676495
The MC is the one doing the birthing.

>>715661529
This is true, you can't get a Jack Frost to inherit fire skills through fusion for example. No clue about skill cards though.

>>715676201
Name one other game. Because they will generally just require that you are on the Neutral alignment by the time the lock happens. IV is so strict that you can't be TOO Neutral before the lock, or else you're stuck as Law or Chaos. And from what I remember, doing the side quests is only required once you're already locked into Neutral, not as a prerequisite to get locked into Neutral.

>>715676612
Retard got filtered by basic Megaten progression.

>>715665364
SMT4A has a power of friendship route

>>715676935
I didn't have that problem with the other games.

>>715676969
So? 1/2 have the power of love.

>>715652196 (OP)
Honestly yeah, that's what I did. I liked Persona 4 and 3 and got into SMT with IV
Just take your time with it, you might like it a lot

>>715676294
My wife would never lead me astray so whatever she's saying must be in my best interest.

>>715676759
I was so fucking done by the end of neutral because I had to scour the dogshit map for one random fucking quest I missed because I just so happened to not autistically check every fucking door in one of the underground areas for one particular asshole who wanted me to get him a dragon dildo or something. Whoever thought this shit was a good idea should be killed.

Whats the verdict on the devil summoner remasters that just came out?

>>715676376
>grind
Git gud, you probably didn't crack the good skills

>>715678425
You talking about Raidou?

>>715676376
You probably ignored the racial skills like a complete retard lmao, you can even do no fusion runs

>>715652196 (OP)
I played SMTV as my first SMT game. It comes with two canons. The original canon kinda sucks dick in most departments. vengeance canon fixes a lot of the original canons shortcomings, but you must play the original canon to truly appreciate vengeances canon. SMTV still sharts all over Persona just by its gameplay mechanics and party building progressions. Play on hard.

>>715676294
>Susano, god of sea and storms
he isn't, though. might as well regurgitate the "tsukiyomi and amaterasu were married" shit that only exists in english speaking circles

>>715678929
yeah

>>715652196 (OP)
Depends on which persona game you liked the best. For 4/5 I think you’re pretty well set with IV, but if you like P3 the most I think Nocturne is the best starting point- they have a lot of the same DNA

>>715652196 (OP)
IV is what got me into the series, my previous experience with it was 10 hours of the SNES version of I

>>715679962
The whole reason the Nahobino looks like water is because he's a god of the sea.

>>715680245
I can't speak for anyone else but generally it's much improved combat wise, with some minor downgrades in how the gun feels to use and loss of some options for demon commands. graphically some areas are much uglier than the original and there are some questionable story changes, but honestly the new combat alone makes it a much better play the original Raidou 1.

>>715670036
Also in interviews before VV came out Doi said all of the original releases endings were neutral or different flavors of law. Reinforcing that creation = order regardless of your ideals.

>>715668164
Pretty much everyone agrees it would have made much more sense to give Asahi as the only choice to make your birthing factory and it was so fucking stupid you could choose anyone.

>>715682792
Maybe I wanted to see what kind of fucked up universe I'd make with Toki

>>715682893
I makes more sense for it to only be Asahi because of how she died, but if you wanted to make the choice only between Asahi and Toki that would be ok. Better than the nonsense we got.

>>715654937
>1 and 2 aren't translated by ATLUS
1 was, why you lie?

Sex with demon women

>>715652196 (OP)
Oh man, you have to try the Uma Musume game—it’s this insanely polished mobile title where you raise these horse girls (yes, that’s right) into elite racing idols. The training system is super strategic, and you form deep emotional bonds with your characters as you guide them to stardom—and like, the drama? It hits. Like that one arc where Oguri Cap’s career is on the line and she’s recovering from injury, and her whole comeback hinges on that one final race in the snow at Nakayama. I swear, the way she pushes through the pain and wins—I was in tears. The pacing, the inner monologues, even the gritty rivalry with Mihono Bourbon... top-tier writing.

>>715685407
I was getting ads about that game in my playthrough of SMTV.

>>715678820
>>715679381
>If you mastered the game, you probably would have been good at it!
News flash, dickweeds: Games are only as good as how much you WANT to master them. If I can't be arsed to put in the effort, it's a bad game. If most people can't/won't put in the effort, it's a shit game.

>>715683761
Probably because:
1. Nobody owns an iPhone 5 anymore
2. It was taken off the Apple Store cause it's no longer compatible with the newer iOS.
It was briefly available as an "ackshually" technicality for a very brief amount of time on a platform that gamers did not care about, let alone the normies that would ever dare looking at the genre let alone archaic gameplay. A decision so bat-flapping insanely divorced from any knowledge of western gamers that even Squarenix-san had to take notes about how to give your players exactly what they don't want.

>>715681392
>VV
>Doi
Holy retard.

>>715686197
Unholy retard*

Sex with summoner men

>>715674179
Do you just never want to have fights? Why are you playing a JRPG?

>>715689101
>demi gets pixie wife
>V MC gets husband and daughterfu

>>715652196 (OP)
Yeah. 4 and Apoc are the best turn system-wise. 4 is also the best thematically and environmentally. Apoc has an awful cast compared to 4. 3 and 5/VV are TOO desolate for me to really remember them fondly, though 3 has personality.
Strange Journey and Soul Hackers are amazing but I figure we're sticking with press turn.
VV is okay, way better than 5 but my tastebuds were soured from the dogshit 5 was.

>>715653024
>Play Nocturne if you want to experience the essence of SMT
A boring game that's not really fun to play?

>>715662618

The question I have is PS1 or SNES?

>>715667075
>>715673830
The massacre ending was god tier though. I didn't feel bad at all smoking everyone because it was literally the best method of freeing everyone from YHVH. Like the divine retards but with an actual solid plan instead of lmao eat everybody then run away to another universe

>>715654589
I love this image so much.

>>715689457
>Apoc has an awful cast compared to 4
lol

>>715689742
I prefer PS1 just because it's smoother, has a cleaner UI, and benefits from more buttons but there's an argument to be made for SNES with things like the music and style of the UI.

Smt Alice is the sexiest character in the existence

>>715691026
4 is bad too, but they're less in your face. It seriously feels like Flynn and Burroughs are alone most of the time

>>715687791
Kill yourself coss-siter bitch fujonigger

a real autobattler series

>>715691614
A gacha too

>>715652196 (OP)
I'll tell you I loved 3 and didn't finish 4 so far. My big problem with it is every dungeon is very short, there is little to no tension around managing MP