Is this the best CRPG ever made?

>>715703868 (OP)
close to it.

Addiction to (You)s should be studied.

It's deeply flawed, but then, few games that aren't banal are, so I'll have to say yes. Like, I have already played WotR longer than any other "CRPG", but if I was to go for one more playthrough, that would still be WotR. That has to count for something. There's one thing that Pathfinder 1e does well and that's build autism (both in terms of powergaming, but much more so than most other games, the freedom to make flavormaxxed builds), and given that the bulk of other candidates like PS:T or BG2 tend to use D&D systems, the downsides like negligible tactical depth, poor simulation, alpha striking simulator gameplay, etc, aren't downsides compared to e.g. Infinity Engine games that also have negligible tactical depth, poor simulation, and either being facerollable without an idea how the game even works or are alpha striking simulators.

System aside, and where it sets itself apart from non-D&D/d20 games, mythic paths are a REALLY big deal (more build autism but also excellent justification for uncommon alignments in terms of RP - very few games make alignments other than LG/NG feel compelling and Mythic paths make them all worth a try, replayability, power fantasy), and it just plays and fuctions really "nice" (whether it's in-game documentation of mechanics, detailed combat log, toggle between RTwP and TB, etc), and most of everything else ranges from "good enough" (like story/writing) to really good (like music).

Well, that's contingent on what you mean by "CRPG". If you stretch the definition beyond "Baldur'sgatelike" and start looking at games like NetHack or Crusader Kings, then perhaps not.

Contrapoints looking ahh

>>715703868 (OP)
If it is I don't think I'm a fan of crpgs

Mogged by RT

every day I cry that owlcat isnt making another pathfinder game

>>715703868 (OP)
If we put CRPGs into subcategories I think Wrath would easily win in the technical aspects. Despite having hundreds of hours in Wrath better written CRPGs like Planescape, Kotor
2, Arcanum, etc will always live rent free in my head and I don't think I could justify putting Wrath in the top spot because of that.

>>715705504
arcanum, planescape, and kotor 2 aren't even that well written
they just try different stories than what are usually told

>>715703868 (OP)
I think the weakest part of the game is the core pathfinder system. D20 with just a bunch of +1s and -1s is just kinda boring, doesn't matter if you have 3000 classes and subclasses it all kinda feels the same at the end of the day especially since most of these classes share the same spells and abilities except this class gets a +1 here and a -1 there.

>>715705769
is this your first crpg ever?

Shit HoMM3 drags it down by at least three points. Rogue Trader is infinitely better by just having the planet building minigame.

>>715703868 (OP)
Runs are too long

>>715705892
No, I've played plenty of CRPGs, I just prefer games which come up with their own systems that take advantage of being on a computer like Fallout, Arcanum, Dragon Age: Origins ect. They typically have more going on than just a million little +1s or -1s like Pathfinder. Its easy to calculate at a table but its boring when I'm playing it on a computer.

It is the best modern cRPG for sure, it would have been the greatest cRPG ever made if it didn't have that dogshit HOMM-like minigame, Kingmaker's minigame even with all the issues that it does have is better, at least its not forcing the player to play a game inside a game that has nothing to do with the main experience.

>>715703868 (OP)
It's not even better than Kingmaker, it's not even better than Rogue Trader

>>715703868 (OP)
nah kingmaker mogs it

>>715705320
F

Does kineticist play anything like warlock including the invocations? Someone in the NWN 2 thread sadi it did

It becomes too easy too early and mid -> lategame is tedious as fuck with all the buffing.

The story is OK, the companions are FUN.

>>715706576
I also like Kingmaker more, mostly for aesthetic reasons, but man, Wrath made so many improvements over Kingmaker in terms of the engine and gameplay. I played Kingmaker again after Wrath and it felt like it was 10 years old already.

>>715705769
there are a number of more interesting classes/archetypes they never ported
Kineticist is good
Its a shame we never got Summoner or Spiritualist, would be an entirely different style than we currently have
Some archetypes like Brownfur Transmuter which did get into wotr do open massive changes even if they arent mechanically the most interesting

Ultimately, DnD (except 4e) is a game where martials mostly just declare attack over and over. They would need to include ToB/Path of War stuff to break that up

I just dropped Pathfinder after beating Rogue Trader, Pillars of Eternity 1 + 2. I tried playing it on the same difficulty I beat Rogue Trader on, Daring, and got so frustrated by the combat/ruleset/allat reading/pre-buffing, that I stopped playing it and started playing Underrail.

I should try on easier difficulties to actually role play in the RPG, but not til I'm done with Underrail.

>>715706245
I think "being easy to calculate" is a boon and it's not like a game like DA:O does much (if anything at all) with its unique system, other than being incredibly opaque and very poorly documented in-game. And leads to the usual min/maxing of putting all points in one stat (after meeting other prerequisites) so fundamentally it doesn't even play any different. I don't think it's even "good" in its own terms: World of WarCraft for example has "essentially the same" stat system, but is way more elegant, self-documented and gets the small details right.

I do agree that Pathfinder is mechanically shit both on tabletop and especially in CRPG context that both lack a human DM making judgement calls but also open new potential by automating bookkeeping, but my reasons are entirely different. The mere choice of d20 is shit because of its linear probability-distribution (extreme outcomes are as likely as any other) and combined with mechanics like AC (full damage or nothing) make for extremely explosive "all or nothing" combats. It makes the "last few points" super extra valuable (having enemies hit you with only 20 rather than 19 and 20 literally halves the damage you take) - in essence playing straight into need to crunch.

>>715707090
Im not super well versed in 3e warlock so I cant tell you the exact differences but broadly yes

Rather than Eldritch Blast you use Kinetic Blast coded to whatever element you chose
Wild Talents instead of Invocations to modify your blast as well as some other fun effects, so you can do things like add a trip effect to your earth blast with Bowling Infusion or make your blast into a 1h melee weapon

Kineticist scales with Con (plus like Dex to hit w/ ranged attacks) but using some wild talents costs health so it balances out

>>715706245
>>715707950
But what's worse is that it doesn't even accomplish much with it. You may go about touch and flatfooted AC and DR (which are extra crunch, bad for PnP) that are theoretically there, but as a real matter of fact in actual play the system doesn't make a difference between hitting a sleeping adamantite-scaled dragon and a fly: it all looks like "dodging".

If you want an example of a die-based system "made for computers", look at wargame Dominions using "DRN" (opposed rolls with exploding 2d6) system. I think opposed rolls should be standard in PnP (they naturally produce "bell curve" like distributions which you could admittedly simulate by adding dies for unopposed rolls and tweaking modifiers, but more importantly, it gives a sense of "agency" to the defender, crucial for emergent narratives) sole argument against being twice as much rolling, but more importantly, it does a lot with them. Armor acts like armor (if a human is trying to hit a human with a sword, most rolls negate the damage entirely and hits that do go through are mostly 1 or 2 damage, which unlike AC makes sense), but avoidance-based defenses are also possible unless you are swarmed (each hit taken during a round reduces defense by 1), unless the unit has "unsurroundable" trait (like a multi-headed hydra that can in a sense fight multiple opponents, one head against each), but also length of weapons matters, there's fatigue, there's locational damage model and permanent injuries, size of combatants matters (a hobbit could only punch a giant in the feet), etc, etc. And crucially, it does everything with great consistency using the same "DRN" roll: despite having vastly vastly more powerful and thematic combat resolution than Pathfinder, it feels vastly more intuitive and less crunchy. The downside is you might have to roll a dozen times just to get a single attack resolved... but that's what computers are for!

>>715705280
Its ok to not like RPGs anon, not every genre is for everyone

>>715703868 (OP)
bg3 is better

>>715706245
In terms of pure "making the numbers feel good", no other RPG has done it as well as Final Fantasy XI. RPG systems perfection.

So I tried this game after all the buzz on /v/ about it and it's so fucking bland, is it literally only made for build autists?
Character design is embarassing, there's zero interactivity with the environment and NPCs, you start in some Diablo-esque dungeon crawl with a million trash mobs to wade through.
I thought this was supposed to be the successor to BG, Arcanum, Fallout... what kind CRPG is this lmao.
It's a glorified dungeon crawler and all the mechanics are focused solely on supporting that.

>>715703868 (OP)
kinda yea
recently, like 1-2 days ago there was rereleasing of newerwinternights 2, and i downloaded it, and oh well, what a shitty game it is. every pseudo-dnd game made by shitters kinda mages wotr game better and better, in comparison

wotr is very good
but they should ve made big endings, with movies, not just puctures, telling what happened with characters.

>>715703868 (OP)
Areelu owes me sex

>>715707282
>Kingmaker again after Wrath and it felt like it was 10 years old already.
time sure flies, kingmaker is 2015 or something. we having war 3.5 years already.

>>715709498
what? no, Kingmaker came out in 2018

>>715703868 (OP)
Kingmaker and DOS2 mog