Thread 715744807

which of these is better game design?

>>715744807 (OP)
right is fine if there are no catchable dratinis or dragonairs

They don't bother putting hurdles on catching previous gen Pokemon because people will just trade for them online if they're any hassle at all. You can only effectively gatekeep the newest mons and even then not for very long.

>>715744807 (OP)
Left because it actually makes you put in work to achieve something stronger. The philosophy on the right is exactly why Pokemon games are in the shitter right now.

>>715744807 (OP)
The first one is better because it means the typical player will never get a Dragonite, which makes the penultimate boss a lot more threatening when he suddenly whips out a team of dragons.
It also means that if you know about Dratini (maybe you saw the anime, maybe you memorized all the Pokemon, whatever) you can hunt for a rare pokemon and it actually feels rare. Then you have to train it and this makes it feel difficult and thus rewarding.
However, none of this is even remotely required to beat the game, which is piss easy, and that makes it fit in the game even better because it's an optional challenge. Nobody HAS to grind for a dragonite.

The right is just some lazy RNG. In that game you get a legendary for free and ride it around everywhere, so a dragonite is no big deal. Also this >>715745204 online trading means there's no such thing as a rare pokemon anyway.

>>715744807 (OP)
Dragonite sucks in early gens

>>715744807 (OP)
Second one is a bandaid for the shitty trade evo system, so now you can get that Gengar or Scizor you never got to get as a kid

>>715744807 (OP)
dragonite isn't worth it at all
just solo the Elite 4 with starmie

>>715744807 (OP)
Left.
By getting a dratini and leveling up you complete 3 entries on the pokedex which is one of the main goals of the game. If right is your only option then by then you'll need to breed the dragonite then raise a dratini to a Dragonair to get all thedex entries for a pokemon that likely isn't viable for badge completion unlike your naturally raised dratini from early-mid game on the left.

>>715745336
Most pokemon sucked ass before physical/special split. The split was the best thing to ever happen in pokemon.

>>715744807 (OP)
Stupid Barney ass looking Pokemon

>>715744807 (OP)
>level until 55
That would explain why I couldn't ever find him as a kid.

>>715744807 (OP)
if the only goal is catch dragonite, who tf is voluntarily picking to level grind a dratini over just catching the damn thing?

>>715744807 (OP)
having fully evolved pokemon like Dragonite spawn in the open world was yet another major mistake someone who doesn't understand the games would make
Left design is obviously better, you have to earn the strong pokemon in your team

>>715745253
Boomer detected.
>>715744990
This. That's what zoomies do.

>>715745265
>online trading means there's no such thing as a rare pokemon anyway
in fairness strong mons still felt somewhat important in the 3DS games, sure you could hack mons in but without candies trivializing exp most people still weren't gonna be putting their end stage mons into the wonder trade. If anything it was the strong spawns/raids that made end stage mons too easy to nab.

>>715745886
It's movepools that are the issue. Everyone forgets most gen 1-2 movesets looked like this. Gen 3 fixed it for some mons but others were still fucked, Gen 4 felt like they did a pass over them all

>>715745253
>he thinks zoomers have time to grind dratinis
They can't even sit through a TikTok video >10 seconds without needing a break to check something else.

>>715744807 (OP)
Left if I intend to use it, right if it's only ever going to sit in the box.

>>715744807 (OP)
The dratinis in that area spawn at or around the level that they evolve anyway I think? It has a different level curve so of course it functions differently.

>>715746325
you can see why dragons were 1 tier above everyone else in gen4 and 5

>>715744807 (OP)
>extremely rare spawn that requires you to have certain abilities to even reach which doesn't happen until late in the game, then you have to hope you can catch it with the mons and balls available to you and if you don't have enough badges it won't listen to you because it's high level

Either way works fine, both of them involve you not being able to use them until late game.

>>715746982
Dragons got so much power-creep since the Split that they had to make an all-new type just to rein them in.

>>715746982
>10 years old me: oh boy a dragon he looks kind of like barney but I bet his attack move is super strong
>dragon rage: does fixed 40 damage and doesn't even benefit from stab
why did they betray thousands of children like this?

>>715747439
>>715747235
This is what it looks like now
>Lv 80 Hyper Beam
kek

>>715747439
I will never understand why Dragon Rage and Twister are so shit, in the anime they btfo'd everything but in-game they're useless

I found it funny that you can catch Salamence in Sun and Moon very early.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNQW_zUTrDU

>>715744807 (OP)
left is better as trained pokemon are innately stronger than high lvl wild pokemon

>>715744807 (OP)
As many anons pointed out, online stuff makes left one kinda pointless. Someone got a Dragonite? Well now they breed them nonstop and gives Dratini to everyone or trades leveled up Dragonairs to everyone. Or hacks one.
Right one is just smarter from accessibility aspect. Also left one would be called "unfair hassle to get a strong pokemon".

I personally think that if Pokemon had only local wireless for trading, the left one would be better. Grinding a cool mon and getting few eggs, then sharing it to few others who haven't done the grind, or if the mon is from different version.
These days you just connect to anyone to get any mon you want. It's streamlined but also has removed social aspect from Pokemon. You don't need to have a friend with different version anymore.
To me that is the biggest reason I don't have much passion for Pokemon anymore, other than porn that is.

>>715747798
Dragon Rage is great in the early - mid game. 40 guaranteed damage 1 - 2 hkos most mons up to level 30. In the early gens nothing would have dragon rage that early though

Haven't played pokemon in a while , is Dragonite still good competitively or is Garchomp still stealing it's thunder?

>>715748186
Dragonite is better in VGC and probably better in Smogon too but I don't really play that

>>715744807 (OP)
i choose a third option
get a special one after the gym challenge so you can use him in the postgame
>>715748186
i don't play comp much but from what i hear with the power creep even garchomp is a total garchump best for setting up hazards compared to some of the newer mons they're puttin out

>>715748547
They keep minmaxing the newest pokemon with objectively better abilities, it's terrible.

>>715744807 (OP)
Right only because Dragonite only starts getting good after Gen 4 and it’s actually worth getting.

>>715744807 (OP)
In the context of the games they're in, they're both fine.
With the smaller roster in FRLG, having a strong, rare type of Pokemon be harder to get is a good plan.
In a game with a much larger party candidate selection, having fully evolved Pokemon be rare catchable spawns or even fixed high level boss enemies is fine too. Odds are the sheer variety has offered you a dragon of some sort already, and if it hasn't, this just makes it easier to complete your collection without having to level grind or trade a weaker Pokemon that you don't even want. It's similar to how you could catch a Level 5 Salamence in USUM, it's silly but neat you can and adds a little spice to an already fairly easy game (especially since that Salamence gets obliterated by Necroz).

It's almost as if all the faggots in this thread dont already have all Gen 1-2 pokémon with the Origin Mark transferred in from the 3DS versions of R/B/Y/G/S/C

Fucking casuals

>>715749423
I didn't buy those because I have HG.
I hate the mark system though, shit just makes it annoying to complete stuff in Pokemon Home. Hated it back in XY too because everyone acted like your Pokemon was hacked in if it didn't have it.

>>715748784
The new abilities are retarded to. They do like 3 things, meanwhile you have mons stuck with shit like Pressure, or damp

>>715749423
Transferred into what? The new games that I haven't played since Sun and Moon?

>>715744807 (OP)
left because it makes the game more involved though still reasonable. One of the biggest problems with modern pokemon is how they've streamlined much of the game out of the game in the name of quality of life. Some of it is good like making the IV/EV process much more reasonable but a lot of it is bad for the general non-postgame and takes a lot of teeth out of the journey

>>715744807 (OP)
Dragonite is not some super rare Pokemon that's an achievement to own anymore, there's really no reason to make it awkward to get

>>715744807 (OP)
Both, actually.
>earlygame shitmon bought from specialized breeders
>late or midgame overlevelled rare spawn that can completely ruin your progress and force a retreat back to the pokecenter
>can catch it but until it gets 3 levels in(at reduced xp gain) it will be treated like a traded pokemon and disobey. Or maybe max affection.
>can't actually spot dratinis in the wild. Maybe with a fishing rod in a lategame area(that is a dragonite's nest)

>>715750121
>Some of it is good like making the IV/EV process much more reasonable
But what's the point of easier breeding if hyper training and nature mints exist now?
>a lot of it is bad for the general non-postgame and takes a lot of teeth out of the journey
Pokemon has never been hard. You've always been able to go through entire games with just your starter, but giving you the full evo of a "strong" pokemon is just lazy design.

>>715748017
>2 of those humanoid mons are psychic
>one of them evolves into a psychic
What did Gamefreak mean by this?

>>715744990
There are catchable Dratinis and Dragonairs, in fact, some of them are catchable around level 50, basically ready to evolve, especially since the game showers you in rare candies/EXP candies

>>715745265
>In that game you get a legendary for free and ride it around everywhere
Well, to be faire, you can't actually use that legendary in battle until near the end of post-game, around the time you'd catch Mewtwo in gen 1

>>715748186
I don't play Pokémon, only follow competitive castings. Last year Dragonite was used a lot due to having access to Tailwind for utility and Scale Shot for damage, as well as its Multiscale ability increasing its resilience a lot. I haven't seen any this year, probably because the regulation is dual uber.

>>715744807 (OP)
the one on the right is from some far corner of the map you'll never visit so both are good
this bread didnt even play the game

>>715745886
Gyarados got nerfed hard by the split. iirc Hitmonchan did too.

they're both fine within their contexts
>RBY
there's 150 pokemon, some should be rare and exciting to discover over time
>SV
there's 1000 and this one in particular is fucking ancient. if you're trying to catch it you're just working through a checklist (if it was one of your favorites you'd already have one imported from Home.)

>>715744807 (OP)
>going from left to right
Turning a monster raising game into a monster collecting game, it's just sad that's where we are now.

>>715750702
That creatures with a heightened psyche tend towards humanoid forms?

>>715744807 (OP)
KANTOOOOO is nearly 30 years old you cannot possibly expect them to maintain a sense of mystique around its roster

>>715752430
why not, most Scarlet/Violet players started playing pokemon with like... Sword/Shield, the only KANTOOOO pokemon they've heard of are Pikachu and Charizard.

>>715752089
What screwed Gyarados was the Special split into SpA and SpD, his 100 Special went to SpD and his SpA went down to 60. If you compare Gen 3 Gyarados to Gen 4 Gyarados Gen 4 is way better.

>>715752548
Do kids even play Pokemon anymore? I was under the impression it is enjoyed exclusively by 30 year olds now, much like Yugioh, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc

>>715752642
a lot of zoomers have gba emu with emerald on their phones

>>715752640
ah yeah, lol i forgot the split special into special attack/defense before the phys/special split for moves.

>>715752825
The only thing I can think of that got straight up hurt be the moves split was typlosion with the loss of elemental punches. Pretty much everything else got better or stayed roughly the same, not accounting for newer pokemon that were better.

>>715748547
>>715748186
multiplayer is so fucking terrible, I don't like the paradox mons but you MUST use them if you want to stand a chance because the balance team overtuned them so hard that they eclipse most standard mons

>>715752642
nah, there's still tons and tons of kids getting into pokemon. Anybody who has ever been to a card shop can tell you pokemon nights at those places are full of really young kids (and middle aged men).

>>715753042
Reminds me of Ultra Beasts. Don't worry they'll disappear and become irrelevant forever soon.

Thoughts on fixed Boss Pokemon like the L85 Garchomp or the L60 Blissey in PLA?

>>715752825
yea Gyarados is an example of why the phys/special split was necessary, Gen 3 Gyarados had no way of dealing good STAB damage with 60 SpA, Water moves were special and Gyarados couldn't even learn Flying type moves, hell even Bite was special. With the split now he had Aqua tail and Waterfall to deal decent STAB Water damage, Bite also became physical, he could learn Ice Fang too for Dragons.

>>715753225
Nta but Ultra Beasts are cool though, Xurkitree is rad and I legitimately don't see what's bad about most of the others aside from maybe Guzzlord.
Ultra Beasts were also not as overwhelming, Celesteela was an annoying staller and Pheromosa was Deoxys v2 but the bulk were just decent. Even ones like Blacephalon that had great stat spreads had absolutely dogshit movepools to balance it a bit.
The problem with Paradox ones is that the robot ones are mostly pretty bland and samey and the prehistoric ones are either great like Slither Wing or utterly forgettable like Scream Tail.

I remember in gen 2 there was a secret little pond on route 45 where you could fish up dratini and dragonair
I would spend a retarded amount of time doing it and pretending I was camping there or some shit

>>715745336
True until it got Dragon Dance. If Salamence didn't powercreep it, it'd be high usage in ADV. Even then it still has a unique niche in having heal bell, boltbeam, and focus punch.

>>715753225
The entire soup has been ruined.
The chances of there ever being another good pokemon game are incredibly low, but if gamefreak did decide to actually put in effort and produce a good game, they'd have to add the full dex back, which means all of the awful broken shit too.
Every game from here on out that has a full dex is going to be riddled with these freaks, and the multiplayer will be ruled by them, whether it's in the official "anything goes" ruleset or the smogon ruleset which is just built to encourage you to use Great Tusk. These things are infinitely more oppressive to the metagame than even the worst of the UBs

>>715749423
No because my cartridge died and I'm not going to bother to change the batteries

>>715753721
>Every game from here on out that has a full dex
There won't be any. why would there be? You just explained why it shouldn't happen.
With dexit in the rearview mirror, I think we can look at it more calmly. The reality is that many pokemon are worthless filler and should be forgotten, or at least rotated in and out so they don't get annoying. Case in point, paradox mons.

>>715748103
Except the Dratini you can get at Goldenrod's game corner.

>>715753306
still BS he lost 100 SpA thunderbolt/flamethrower. they owe Gyarados badass fire/electric coverage moves, the carp doesn't jump over the dragon gate just to end up treated like this.

>>715745886
>The split was the best thing to ever happen in pokemon
Use moves other than STAB moves, you autist.

>>715753967
No
The only one that should be is Watchog

>>715745402
im in leaf green second e4 run, what starmie moves are best?
i keep getting ass guttered at agatha

>>715754227
the carp was explicitly denied dragon status and left to seethe eternally. 80/90 bp water moves coming off 130(?) base attack is a fine consolation prize though

>>715754270
... you do that more after the split anon.

>>715754227
Gen 1 Gyarados was insane, and honestly a fair reward for having to train a Magikarp.

>>715754402
nope, screw that, give him volt tackle and flare blitz. Gyarados is supposed to be a coverage god, not locked to using waterfall and fucking bounce.

>>715754498
gyarados has had power whip and earthquake for a while. it's fine coverage

>>715744807 (OP)
Neither, you get a Dragonair and give it an everstone.

>>715744807 (OP)
Left, right is for people who want stuff without having to work for it.

>>715744807 (OP)
right if it is in a small obscure location and rare
>muh instant reward
>muh hard work
nigger it is a bug catching game
go find and catch the rare bug

>>715754672
>work
>a video game for children

>>715744807 (OP)
GF honestly need to cut down the amount of Pokemon in the next game. It doesn't feel special to just cycle through a new area, throw a few ultra balls at whatever pops up and suddenly have 10 new Pokemon in your pokedex

>>715744807 (OP)
Might have to do with Dragonite being the super awesome mythical pokemon of gen 1 while he is a nothingmon in gen whatever the fuck it is now.

>an XXL Dragonite is 14'6"
Imagine

>>715751987
spindass lol

Both are fine.

I really really want to put a zoomer in front of a Disgaea game.

>>715745886
> Most pokemon sucked ass before physical/special split
This is demonstrably false, and the split exacerbated the divide between good mons and shitmons. In gen 3 basically everything barring shit like Ledian and Unown was usable, and almost every single monster had its niche.

>>715754270
This

>>715744807 (OP)
>rare spawn
It's just an aggressively-telegraphed, static terrastelized spawn.

Man proto-palworld is fuckin weird

>>715753306
No, Gen 2 Gyarados is an example of Gamefreak rebalancing to fit a new campaign. He’s a fire breathing sea serpent, so having high attack and special made sense in Gen 1 as a secret reward for training up the shitty Magikarp you were “scammed” with early on. Old JP guides had Magikarp and Gyarados listed far apart, to keep it a secret that they were connected. Gen 2 hands you a Gyarados though, and the “secret” of it being a Magikarp evo is out anyway which they reference in the plot. The free catch one also practically comes with surf unlike in Gen 1 where surf was lategame, so they decided to give it a weaker special attack so you wouldn’t absolutely steamroll the game early on. By the time you get to the E4 you can teach it earthquake, and benefit from its 125 attack.

>>715755272
I'M IMAGINING IT
I'M IMAGINING IT

>>715744807 (OP)
Left because catching pre evo Pokemon and raising them to their peak was part of quality gameplay

right because it requires less grinding

>>715756186
huh? The red Gyarados in Gen 2 starts with Thrash which an evolving gyarados can't learn and gen 1 gyarados doesn't get at all. It's stronger, not weaker. If anything they gave it out to the player to make the game easier.

>>715755272
>14'6"
>3 inche penor
>1.5 stone nuts
wow

>>715744807 (OP)
right but 1% chance at the very most, and ~10% less EVs
and 55 could be brought down to 45-50

I just wanted to play GSC with a fucking Murkrow. I don't want to get it after 80% of the game is over.

>>715757023
this is why i'm thankful for romhacks

>>715744807 (OP)
Why is Dragonair so much better than Dragonite? That's the real bloody question.

I think if there is a legitimate argument to be made for children’s games being designed differently from grown-up games. Really cool things showing up completely randomly in a children’s game doesn’t sound like the end of the world to me. There’s always going to be some children that just never get good at the game or who don’t have enough time to regularly play it, children are always going to care more about big moments and things they can brag about at the schoolyard. Designing a game such that it takes complicated maneuvers or high levels of skill or perseverance is well and good, nothing against it in general, but I don’t actually think that that appeals to small kids nearly as much. I don’t know about you guys, but when I was a kid on the playground, people would brag about rare Pokémon cards that they had, or secrets that they stumbled into or been told about by an older brother. They wouldn’t actually brag much about which kids they had beaten at Pokémon, or which difficult video games they had finished, it was more about stuff that they found. Obviously a Pokémon game is probably pretty big, and there’s room for both, but they are games for smaller children. in light of that being the case, fairly significant rewards being random, or as easy to get as talking to the right NPC fosters in most kids a sense of wonder, rather than a sense of annoyance from a 30-year-old minmaxing with the wiki open. Imagine if every single decent Pokémon was hidden behind a series of difficult and well-made puzzles and highly strategic battles. This would be the Pokémon game I would have the most fun with, but you’re locking off a lot of your best content to a large number of children who will never be able to access it, or worse, the present day in mind, will learn extremely early on that they were rewarded for simply looking up the answers on the Internet, or following guides from their favorite YouTubers.

>>715754331
i liked watchog because it could get hypnosis + false swipe. good for catching mons

>>715757023
>Team Rocket has the cool new dark type fire dogs
>Teases you all fucking game with it
>Available postgame
What were they thinking!?

>>715757462
Sleek and refined wyrm always beats out literal Barney looking dragon.

>>715757023
Don't forget the tendency for some Pokemon to just run off for no reason in GSC, Phanpy especially

>>715759049
I hate Watchog, and there are way easier ways to catch stuff, it was the gen where everyone just chucked Quick Balls at stuff either way. But hey at least someone likes it. The cuts kinda put me off Pokemon for a whole two gens worth of them and I only just fell off the wagon and tried PLA recently.

>>715754371
How? Just use psychic

>>715757023
johto is so dogshit

>>715756186
>hack red version to start with level 5 gyarados
>it starts with dragon rage
>can one shot literally everything until the fossil nerd in the cave

>>715757023
>get my 6 homies and hm whores long before midgame
>pass up all the cool new pokemon because i like my guys too much
This part of the games always sucked and never got better

>>715757023
>'johto pokemon'
pokemon gen 1->2 is a linear continuity, and pokemon 152-250 include some regional exclusives but the large majority are pokemon so rare and hard to acquire that researchers literally didnt realize they existed throughout the entire first game.

>>715757023
At gligar and delibird supposed to be counterparts

>>715760784
gligar and phanphy iirc

>>715744807 (OP)
>not available till endgame
shit design

>>715757023
Don't forget that Crystal fixes some of the version exclusives, but makes Mareep unavailable because fuck you.

>>715760582
On the one hand, I completely respect the intent here.
On the other hand, they should've seen that a pokemon whose main noteworthy trait was being rare was a gimmick to be used SPARINGLY. Farfetch'd is fine alone, adding a second or third one to the dex would've been okay too, Johto has like seven. And they practically mock you with some really cool typings that they can barely use because the only stat they have is rarity. Caught a new ghost type? Sorry, you're not really doing anything with it that a Gengar wouldn't do better!
I know that power creep every sequel is bad, but this wasn't the solution.

Biggest issue with pokemon is your rival actively picks a pokemon weak to your pick instead of picking the pokemon that your pick was weak to out of spite like it use to be

>>715745265
>because it's an optional challenge
Um buddy around here we call that bloat

>>715757023
>There only one new ghost type in gen 2
why?

>>715762808
There's only three in gen 1, it was a rare type.

>>715762391
Most games have multiple rivals tho

>>715760894
Dragonite is incredibly strong and he's incredibly tough, therefore owning him too early will make the Pokemon games too easy. It's bad enough that all of the Pokemon games are already easy because they have zero level scaling.

>>715745253
Only problem is that Dragonite is incredibly mediocre for the investment in RBY. Tauros is much more attainable and better in almost every way.

>>715763397
NTA but he evolves at level 50. That's always been the issue with pseudos. In almost every game before the 3DS era, you get the first stage way too late in the game. You completely ignore the Magikarp period that the first and second stages are balanced around and just power-level it in Victory Road until you have one of the strongest Pokemon in the game for little effort.

>>715746325
So many mons in Gen I bizarrely have very wide elemental TM access as well. I'm guessing that the reason is for it to be a highlight for types like Normal and Fighting in otherwise limited movepools, but the former has like three of the best mons in the game too.

Ngl, Dragonite was a miss. They had the opportunity to create a cool, rare dragon pokemon that would get kids everywhere begging eachother to find one and they made this barney-esque design instead. I don't even care that it evolved from two serpentine pokemon and people wished that it's final evo was more consistent. I guess they didn't want to usurp Charizard in the same but even still, why make a design that's very similar to it only to end not be as popular or marketed? Dragonite could've been so much more for being the first dragon type final evolution.

>most of the Pseudo legendaries are obtained too late/take too much effort and grinding for them to be worth it in a normal run
>by the time you grinded them up, you could've just made your actual team overpowered for the league

>>715761519
I do not understand why Mareep is so fucking popular in gen 2, electric isn't even that important to Johto like Rock, Flying, Fighting, Water and Ice are.
Why even pick another mono electric type over the only water/electric type in the game?

>>715763815
Nta but
Aside from Goomy being obtained in the swamp by Lumiose, that's still the case in the 3DS entries, Jangmo-o is only obtained on the last island in both SM and USUM iirc. Unless you mean all pseudos, since you can literally catch a fully evolved sub-level 10 Salamence in the first island's grass if you're patient enough. And er, Beldum at a similar point to Goomy but in Alola. I have no idea where Frigibax or Dreepy are found since I don't have those games.

>>715764872
Lanturn is sexually attractive but lacks the immediate appeal of the Mareep line.

>>715764936
Fuck Lanturn, Chinchou is the best

>>715764872
There's too many water types to begin with in most pokemon games, so they're often snubbed regardless of subtype, especially common ones. Also, people love sheep.

>>715745336
HYPERBEAM

>>715764583
>tfw autistic retard who has 6 L100 before even filling out the badges/stamps
Granted it's PLA so I barely ever battled at all though

>>715764872
It's cute, and ampharos is part of the main story.

>>715765883
You can just grind Alpha Blisseys for crazy exp.

>>715766878
I caught a few but I genuinely did not need them. I even swapped out a couple members in the mid-70's and still ended up at max just because I really enjoy catching them without battle.

>>715744807 (OP)
How rare are we talking here? Are we talking closer to a one-in-a-ten thousand chance that most players would never find, or obsessively walk in the same grass for days on end, or something that can be done by fucking around the area for 45 minutes?

>>715767286
The lowest a standard rare encounter, no variants/shinies/etc. can get is 1% in most 3D Pokemon games.

>>715744807 (OP)
WTF

>>715753630
Kino

>>715755751
Ghost being physical and dark being special was fucking retarded and made a lot pokemon not even able to use thier own stab moves

>>715744807 (OP)
I haven't played Pokemon since Pearl(it was so bad it made me stop caring about the series). Do you not have to level up Pokemon anymore to evolve them?

>>715772621
If you catch them unevolved. The problem is that you don't have to catch them unevolved anymore.

>>715744807 (OP)
Right is obviously bad

But the problem with left is that you never actually GET a Dragonite. The idea of cool Pokemon arriving after you finish the game is, well, trash. They should be hidden, yes, they should need training, but they should be available early.

>>715744807 (OP)
Gen 3 dragonite is outclassed by Salamence and doesn't even have extreme speed

>>715744807 (OP)
I always thought the lore of Pokemon was that it was very rare to find fully evolved Pokemon in the wild, which is the whole point of training. Right completely throws that away.

what the actual fuck is a paradox pokemon and why does it sound like some Plants vs Zombies 2 shit?

>>715773636
The lore has started doing weird multiverse shit with timelines and averted cataclysms and a whole bunch of stuff that'd be interesting if it was in the game and not just weird lore on the tertiary sidelines, if it even gets that close to canon (see the Ultra Beasts being clear parallels of people in SuMo for no reason). Paradox pokemon are from the distant past/future and mostly only show up in one fucked up crater where time travel was going on.

>>715773636
"we're out of ideas for pokemon so let's take old ones and fuck their shit up"

>>715748186
In singles dragonite is probably the strongest its ever been in gen 9

>>715744807 (OP)
Left BUT you should only be able to catch Dratinis in the Safari Zone and the catch rate should be reduced from 15% to 1.5%

>>715773636
They’ve been repackaging old Pokemon for a decade now, this is just the newest (and shittiest) iteration

>>715754371
idk i never played gen 3

>>715773636
>check out this old pokemon but its made out of metal, and also it has two random typings that have nothing to do with its design, and better stats than legendary pokemon. also there are like 20 of them.

>>715763480
>much more attainable
Isn't Tauros THE rarest/hardest catch in RBY?

>>715744807 (OP)
>Route 3 lvl 9 salamance

>>715774873
>Isn't Tauros THE rarest/hardest catch in RBY?

No

>>715774873
Yes, it's one of the rarest mons and only found in the safari zone, and it has high speed so it flees often. it's a 4% encounter and has a 52% chance to instantly run. If you're stupid enough to try using rocks on it then it runs almost 100% of the time. It's a massive pain in the ass to catch. Chansey is actually easier.

>>715744807 (OP)
Neither, the left made sense for a game with 151 monsters with only one like Dragonite. The right makes sense for one with 600 monsters which has 10 different Pokemon lines of Dragonite's archtype.

Do you really expect a player to have to catch some low level rare monster 10 times and grind it up to level 45-55 to fill the Pokedex?

>>715744807 (OP)
Always felt a bit iffy about that ever since bw. The fact that you could just fly to Iccirus, walk up a screen, and start fishing for one at the pond in front of Dragonspiral Tower was kinda lame. At least make it somewhere remote or through a game mechanic.
>>715753630
>They got rid of it in hgss, so now you can only catch dratini in Clair’s bitch cave
Still mad. Hopping down all of those ledges to get to the dratini pond was neat. Even if it was a bit redundant.

>>715765134
>Fuck Lanturn
yeah that's the idea, anon

>>715773636
Magical ancient turtle that sleeps underground below a giant crater in the middle of pokespain was used to summon them from potentially alternate pasts and futures. Might’ve happened due to the turtle picking up on the wishes of explorers who wanted to find cool shit and later obsessed researchers, or maybe it just did it on its own. Who knows

>>715773636
it's a regional forme, the form being that of a different UNIVERSE! or time period.

>>715760582
>>715762213