Thread 715804527

Why is it not as beloved as Sonic 2?

>larger levels with more complexity
>minibosses
>more shields (fire, water, electric)
>fully playable Tails
>music composed by one of the greatest artists of all time (Michael Jackson)

>>715804527 (OP)
It was barely rereleased for the longest time due to the latter.
And it's a damn shame because now the only way to play it on modern consoles is Origins.

sonic 2 was released at the height of sonic's cultural relevance

>>715804527 (OP)
I'd argue it's just as beloved as Sonic 2. But it's not quite as well known or popular because of >>715804636, which should be kinda obvious when you think about it.

>>715804527 (OP)
>Why is it not as beloved as Sonic 2?
what the fuck

>>715804527 (OP)
It is

>>715804636
This. Sonic kinda fell off hard in 1994. It wasn't even in consideration for GOTY in magazines, that year was an anglo fight between EWJ and DKC.

>>715804527 (OP)
S3&K is considered the height of the entire series by many

>>715804527 (OP)
Sonic 2 has a much lower skill floor where you can zoom through most levels in 50 seconds without much interaction. Sonic 1 and 3 are less popular because they require more skill to go fast

>>715804527 (OP)
because sonic 2's a piss baby game that makes it easy to go fast and that's all that matters apparently

>>715804527 (OP)
the vast majority of people say 3K is the peak, I have no idea what alternate universe you came from

>>715805532
That's Sonic 3. Not Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

>>715805532
This is a classic modern vee tactic.
>post universally beloved game
>ask stupid question like: I don't get why this game is so hated????
I assume these posters do it for attention.

>>715804527 (OP)
Probably the same thing as always - some e-celeb said Sonic 2 is better and now people adopt that opinion as their own.

>>715804527 (OP)
I never replay Sonic 2.
Sonic 3&K is peak of 2d sonic. It boasts the best characters, soundtrack, and levels in the entire series.
I believe many people only played 2 because it was bundled with the Genesis for the longest time. Again, 2 is vastly inferior and 3&K is a truly great game.

>>715805604
>That's Sonic 3. Not Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
Two halves of the same game, to try and separate them is shallow and pedantic

>>715805439
I never enjoyed 2 because the last boss was such a departure from the mechanics of the rest of the game. Maybe I was just a dumb kid, but I could consistently get to Death Egg Zone, only to get completely curb stomped by robot Robotnik. His mechanics were not really telegraphed or built upon anything else in the game.

>>715806123
It literally bends forward for you to land a hit on it. You may be retarded

>>715806123
well yeah death egg's the only actually hard part of the game, even then it's just a matter of learning the timing of a few patterns

>>715806123
2's final boss is actually one of the best in the series because it holds true to the philosophy of "new players can wait for openings but skilled players can get a lot of hits in quickly". I would say 1 and 3's final bosses are worse because they have much more mandatory waiting

>>715804527 (OP)
It's only half a game.

>>715804527 (OP)
>music composed by one of the greatest artists of all time (Michael Jackson)
Yeah but it's not as "punchy" as Sonic 2's music. The level music in Sonic 2 hits you with hard, catchy melodies, and when the level starts each of these melodies plays without any backing instrumentation so they almost act as a musical "Ready? Go!" for the level.
Sonic 3 has some jams, some funky tunes to be sure, but they don't really stand out like Sonic 2's soundtrack does.

>>715804527 (OP)
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is literally the peak of the whole franchise, what are you talking about?

>>715806294
I remember as kid watching the next door neighbor beat the Death Egg Robotnik by creeping up behind him and hitting him on the ass at the right moments. I always thought that's how you were supposed to beat him. It was only years later when I watched a playthrough on YouTube that I realized you're supposed to attack him head on. I then went and beat him first try.

>>715806294
Eh, but it's a pretty quick motion and easy to miss.
Also, I think having 0 rings if you die and have to start the fight over again was crazy difficult for me as a little kid.

You have to consider that strategy for most of the bosses in this game can be boiled down to:
>Jump when you see them
>Do damage
>If you get hurt, grab your rings
>If you die, collect more rings and try again

Then you get to the last boss who you seemingly can't jump at without taking damage, except for a tight window (at least it seemed that way when I was a kid). And he shoots an unavoidable attack with his hands unless you get to the other side of the screen early. Compare that to every other boss that is just "just at him when you see him".

>>715806695
You're crazy. Every track on 3&K is a banger, and catchy as fuck (Ice Cap, Flying Battery, Lava Reef, etc.). Sonic 2 is very good as well, but I don't think it has anywhere near the same depth as 3&K's music.

>>715805948
It's Sonic 3.

>>715804527 (OP)
Sonic 2 just did everything better but the bosses. Take Carnival Night vs Casino Night for example. Anyone in their right mind is going to prefer Casino Night over Carnival Night in both music, stage design, and aesthetics.

>>715804527 (OP)
???
Sonic 3 has always been regarded as one of the best platformers of all time

>>715808291
2 loses steam around Hill Top if we're being truthful

>>715809308
This is a huge difference between the two as well: Sonic 2 is front loaded with good levels. 3&K gets stronger as the game goes on. Starts off good and gets even better as you go along (with Marble Garden / Carnival Night being the lowpoint)

>>715809308
Before Mystic Cave Zone and Oil Ocean? You're nuts!

>>715807673
It's a deceptively small window and since there are no rings, you have zero room for error or experimentation. You have to no-hit the gauntlet of metal then death egg and it's BS.

Half of the game was still in development and six zones compared to Sonic 2's eight with the final parts of the game making up nine and a half. Granted when they did release S&K and fully completed Sonic 3, it was definitely a hell of a good game, but the damage was already done and Donkey Kong Country was creeping up with just the game itself vs. needing TWO games for the full experience. Sonic 3 should have had two more zones from S&K and a playable Knuckles and that could have saved it.

THEN make Sonic 4 in late 1995 with whatever zones didn't make it in Sonic 3 and new zones atop that with Knuckles and the Chaotix crew as new playables and Sonic as a hidden bonus character after the main campaign. Donkey Kong Country had no opposing competition and DKC2 claimed 1995 as its own with ease. Sonic 4 and Alien Soldier could have countered it.

Sonic 3&K the levels seemed to farfetched, obtuse. Especially the bonuslevels. It's just, mid-level managed all too much to be fun.
Sonic 2, that's where the fun is to be had. S3&K retards will never understand true fun.

>>715804527 (OP)
the new shitty sprite ruined it

Sonic 2 had Chemical Plant Zone.

>>715814924
My fun is truer than yours.

>>715804527 (OP)
It doesn’t give me any “put the controller down and enjoy spinning to music” sections until Hydrocity Act 2 , and that’s like the only one.

Too many people filtered by the cylinders in Carnival Night

S2 is so boring, don't like the water zone. 1 and 3 are better.

>>715804527 (OP)
>One of the greatest
>One Of
Fuck off

>>715818965
This, he's the GOAT

s3 is a bad game and the knuckles level pack has good bosses but bad levels because they are built off the bad game that is s3.

>>715804527 (OP)
As far as I know most Sonic fans consider S3&K to be the peak of classic Sonic. I tend to agree, too.

The music in Sonic 3 is terrible. It has that crusty genesis sound that Sonic 2 managed to mostly avoid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBTAGVnfXAw

How the fuck can anyone listen to this and not have their ears bleed

>>715809308
Hill Top Zone has a banging BGM.

>>715819332
The speakers and system took the edge off at the time and the crispness that was present sounds a lot better than the muffled nature of the competition. That said, I do agree with you that I think 2 overall had a better OST. Genesis had some fucking awesome music-- all of SoR was phenomenal.

>>715819332
>posts audio kino
>"yeah this sucks, actually :)"

>>715819332
>How the fuck can anyone listen to this and not have their ears bleed
You say that like Sonic 2 doesn't have high-pitched farts playing for the boss theme, stop being disingenuous.

>>715809308
I like Mystic Cave and even Oil Ocean but everything afterwards is painfully boring with bad music and 2 was already pretty hit-or-miss before that point.

>>715819531
The hillbilly harmonica in the beginning completely throws the track and zone into the trash

its important to remember that sega fans on the internet have negative taste. you are talking about a group of people who have generally convinced themselves that saturn > dreamcast >sega master system > genesis. Actual real life opinions always supercede the 'opinions' (irrational reaction formations) of internet sega fans who have tied themselves into logical knots in order to cope with the failure of their pet company.

>>715819801
kys

>>715804527 (OP)
S3&K is the whole package. No point in reviewing 3 or S&K on their own as they were just limited by hardware and time of their era.

>>715819952
>saturn > dreamcast >sega master system > genesis
No one has ever said this in the history of earth. kys

>>715804527 (OP)
Not a pack-in, and it was the incomplete first half that even if you judge them as standalone games gets mogged by its second half. Sonic 3 was the first time kid me felt scammed by a video game with how much of a downgrade it was from 2.

>>715804527 (OP)
The moment Sega converted to Judaism. >>715820191

>>715819790
Before Metropolis Zone onwards (and even Metropolis Zone isn't bad, just not great), what would you consider a miss? Because with the exception of MAYBE Aquatic Ruin, I can't really think of any songs that aren't good.

>>715804527 (OP)
Michael Jackson barely contributed anything, he lost interest very quickly and let the rest of his sound team like Brad Buxer do all the work. He directly contributed maybe 2 or 3 of the tracks out of everything his team composed, and out of those, only a small amount got selected by the dev team to be put in the game as a replacement for the proto tracks by the Japanese composers. So it's doubtful whether any material directly composed by MJ is actually in the game to begin with.

>>715804527 (OP)
Its the Zenith of the series. Everytbing after has been Hard Times for Sonic

The levels just weren't as enjoyable as 2's, but 3 was still fun.

>>715819801
That's part of what made it so great.

>>715804527 (OP)
how would you fix him

>>715804527 (OP)
>>larger levels with more complexity
Absolutely not. Larger sure, but adding Knuckles and Tails as fully playable characters with their own movesets meant having to dedicate large chunks of most levels to completely separate routes for Knuckles alone to do, which in turn limited the routes Sonic could take and made every level a long meandering hallway. Sonic 2 is peak because most levels have actually branching paths that reward skill and encourage replayability.

>>715819952
Genesis is the greatest console ever made.

>>715820912
meant for

>>715820434
Not true, Michael did work on it, but his team claims he didn't like the Genesis sound chip. Michael was a perfectionist who was obsessed with topping Thriller so it makes sense

>>715819332
>The music in Sonic 3 is terrible.
Unironically agree but the Classic Sonic fandom ain't ready to admit that.

>>715821006
how he fuck did i miss twice

this post >>715814958

>>715819332
I actually like that about it, adds some texture to it.

S3K is the peak of Sonic as a franchise. It is one of the greatest platformers ever made. A lot of the things Sonic 2 introduced was done better in 3K. Levels were speedy yet complex, getting Super Sonic and making the game much easier for yourself made being brought back down to earth in Mushroom Hill hit that much harder, and made Hyper Sonic that much more satisfying to obtain. Elemental powerups are better than just 'here is a shield', and the invincibility thing Sonic does if you double tap jump means that Sonic has some uniqueness compared to Tails and Knuckles. The final bosses were better than a walking egg robot you need to hit a couple times to beat. Replayable game considering you have two other characters to play again as. Special stages were leagues better than the tails rapes you in the butt stages of Sonic 2.

>>715821487
I think making the special stages be in hidden parts of the level instead of at checkpoints was an incredibly retarded decision. This is Sonic. I want to go fast, not grind against walls trying to find out which one I can walk through to jump into a big ring.

>>715804527 (OP)
Sonic 2 and 3 is a simple case of quality over quantity. Sonic 3 may have more content and better visuals at times but Sonic 2 is the superior games overall.

What games outside of the Genesis ones are good?

>>715823664
Depends on what kind of games you like and how much jank you can put up with.
The 8-bit ones can be good as long as you either play the Master System versions, or the Game Gear exclusives without Master System versions. Reason for this is the screen size, MS->GG ports make the gameplay worse because of it, but GG exclusives were developed with the GG's screen size in mind.

>>715823664
Sonic 1 and 2 Master System, Sonic Chaos, Sonic Triple Trouble, Sonic Mania. I guess the Sonic Advance games are passable.

>>715804527 (OP)
It is? S3&K is generally considered to be the best 2D Sonic game and arguably the best Sonic game period. Like, the only other 2D game that comes close is maybe Mania? And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who claims any of the 3D Sonic games are overall better than the 2D Sonics outside of maybe comparing base Sonic 1 to like Sonic Colors or Generations or something. The best of the best 3D versus the worst 2D.

>>715806472
Yeah not many people realize it's a Votoms reference

>>715805135
>that year was an anglo fight between EWJ and DKC.
Not to mention DK raped Sonic in sales.

>>715804527 (OP)
Greatest fucking 2D platformer of all time imo if combined with Knuckles. Only thing that would set it over the top as pure kino perfection is if drop dash was added in combination with his insta-shield move.

>>715821487
>It is one of the greatest platformers ever made
Fuck outta here.

>>715826370
It is, and quite literally, everyone agrees with that statement; you being smug doesn't change that.

>>715826349
isn't it in AIR?

>>715821487
Blue spheres is alright but they still could have did something a bit better even at that time I bet. I do agree with you on basically everything though. Its the best 2D platformer all time. There is barely anything wrong with it. The constant looping music when you become Super/Hyper does suck though that also could have been better.

>>715804527 (OP)
>came out right when Sonic's popularity was beginning to wane
>was sold as half a game, and you had to pay full price for the second half
>wasn't ported as much as 1 and 2 due to the music rights issue
>Donkey Kong Country came out that same year and proceeded to make Sonic its bitch in terms of sales

>>715826973
I think so but you have to add it in with a mod. I haven't played in awhile so can't say for sure. Its interesting how Sega themselves had experimented with the concept long before Mania ever released.

What went wrong?

>>715829398
they halfassed sonic 3

>>715820240
Anon, Sega was founded by Jews.

>>715804527 (OP)
Everyone always says 2 is the best game in every series like a bot

>>715804527 (OP)
Garbage levels, horrible soundfont, sprites are ugly, and it's extremely rushed and buggy.

>>715805398
>Sonic 1 and 3 are less popular because they require more skill to go fast

Sonic 3 has parts where you get speed boosters and automatically run through huge swabs of the levels for like half a minute of time. Every level except maybe the first one has them.

>>715806123
skill issue.

>I never enjoyed 2 because the last boss
So you couldn't enjoy 99% of the rest of the game? As a kid I couldn't even make it to the final level, but I still enjoyed it immensely (I think Metropolis or Wing Fortress were as far as I could get, granted I was maybe 6 years old at the time).

>>715807673
>And he shoots an unavoidable attack with his hands unless you get to the other side of the screen early

Yeah if only you had some kind of move that allows you to instantly move at maximum speed. Something that would allow you to charge up your speed and release it immediately, shooting you out of one corner and into the other one. Like a spinning dash move or something.

What do you mean not as beloved as sonic 2? Absolutely every single millennial who grew up with it (including me) agrees S3&K is the best Sonic game ever made, we all also love 2 but no one thinks it's better. Must be some random shit zoomers say for no reason other than to be mildly contrarian to millennials and/or because the most popular way to play it these days replaces half the godlike original OST with trash.

I think the knuckles have is far weaker than sonic 3 alone

>>715819164
Sonic fan here, I've administered a large sonic site and my current project also has a Sonic board on it.

Sonic 2 is a ton more fun. The level design is far better.
I liked S3&K as a kid but but it became just boring cause it was extremely easy and extremely long.

>>715820434
>Michael Jackson barely contributed anything, he lost interest very quickly and let the rest of his sound team like Brad Buxer do all the work.
MJ always had his songs done by his team, or Quincy Jones or others. He couldn't play instruments, any time he "wrote" music it consisted of himself beat boxing into a tape recorded.

>>715831363
Isn't that true of most pop musicians?

>>715804527 (OP)
This >>715804636 right here. Sonic 2 is Sonic 2, 3 is just 'the game that came out after Sonic 2' for a lot of people. It was just more of the same and in a lot of respects, just less exciting overall.

>>715805948
Cool. Sega is the one that separated them, you disingenuous fucktard. We will one day reach a point where retards like you say the same about Generations and SXSG being the same game despite being separate releases at their respective initial sale dates.

>>715830721
>Yeah if only you had some kind of move that allows you to instantly move at maximum speed.
"Spindash totally isn't like boost, you guys!"fags, how are we coping?

Genesis baby here. I always hated Sonic 3 when I was growing up. We owned Spinball and I was practically raised on the cartoon, so to me the "classic Sonic trilogy" didn't have the same weight it does for others. When I was older and experienced CD through Gems Collection, I remember thinking to myself the entire time that it was way better than 3&K, even if I couldn't really explain why. My only regret is never begging my parents for a 32X so I could be one of the dozen or so people who played Chaotix at launch and lived to tell the tale.

>>715806695
>music composed by one of the greatest artists of all time (Brad Buxer)
ftfy

Why was MJ such a lazy pedophile piece of shit?
>he was a Sonic fan
Never mind.

>>715830519
I hate this boss because he has way too much health.

>>715820953
What I'm understanding here is that drastically different character abilities ruined the franchise and that abilities should never have deviated too far from what already works with Sonic's moveset.

>>715833250
Why are you trying to derail the thread like this?

>>715804527 (OP)
I loved this the most, along with the sonic and knuckles expansion. I still enjoyed 2, moreso than 1. All had excellent soundtracks.

>>715821698
Good thing you don't need the emeralds to enjoy 99% of the game then, retard. This is why I laugh at Heroes haters, too. The only part you "need" to beat all 4 teams for is a single boss fight and not even a very good one. Same with SA1 and it's shitty characters, just one boss.

>>715832536
>We owned Spinball
So how'd you like the first three levels of the game?

>>715833364
It wasn't the movesets themselves that were the problem in S3&K, it was dedicating massive chunks of each level to cordoning off the different characters instead of designing the entire level to work with all three characters. The Advance games didn't have this problem and they had five characters with their own movesets, plus combo moves in Advance 3.

>>715833695
>boring slow flying
>boring slow climbing
Are we really going to defend the abilities themselves?

>>715833671
Sonic Spinball is great and I will not accept slander towards it

>>715805136
Sonic 3 & knucles is not a game. It is 2 games.

>>715805398
Sonic 3 is the easier game. Wtf are you talking dumb nigga

>>715821076
Brad Buxer says different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tHXdeaYluc

>>715832536
nigga i owned a 32X and a Sega CD and was huge into SatAM and even I couldn't muster a single fuck to give about Chaotix.

>>715835582
It's literally one game split in two. Two half games make one. If you're not retarded, you can do the math.

>>715804527 (OP)
>larger levels with more complexity
The level design is precisely why i hate it. It's obnoxious and convoluted, and 99% of it is filler.
>music composed by one of the greatest artists of all time (Michael Jackson)
1) Only like 1 or 2 tracks were composed by him, and then re-arranged by the japs.
2) None of the music is as good as the music in the first 2 games.

>>715805136
It has absolutely atrocious music.
The american team composed it, and they have no idea how to use an FM Synth.

>>715834062
I love it too but The Showdown was awful, we all know it.

>>715831060
Bullshit. Sonic 2 has always been seen as the better game, the absolute paragon of what a Sonic game should be. It's the killer app that sold the Genesis.

DA GOAT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6kjAkVw_s

>>715836780
Not counting Jackson's team, the only western composer for S3&K was Drossin, who only did a few last-minute jingles that would end up in S&K and replacements for MJT jingles in S3&K. The actual zone tracks not done by MJT, including the replacements used in S3&K and the PC port, were done by Japanese.

>>715833309
It takes twelve fucking hits, just four more than a regular boss, and you can get seven of those before he takes off for the first time. Come on, man.

>>715837198
Then why has it been such a nightmare for Sega to re-release this game?

>>715837330
Because of the music tracks done by the Michael Jackson Team you dunce. They ported the game as-is to Steam and got into legal trouble with those people over disputes as to whether it counted as a new project or a continuation of the existing project for the purpose of royalties and material ownership. It wasn't until Origins that they just decided to use the prototype tracks that were re-arranged for the PC release.
Same reason why reuse and remixes of S1 and S2 songs have to get cleared by Sega first because they need to pay royalties to Masato Nakamura who composed them, as Bioware found out the hard way.

>>715804527 (OP)
Better question is why Sonic 1 isn't more beloved.

>>715837272
>just four more than a regular boss,
The other boss fights are nowhere near as boring and long.

>>715835709
I trust Buxer over MJ because Buxer is white and MJ is black and black men are notorious thieves.

>>715838059
I'll give you boring, Sonic boss fights have always been pretty lousy.

>>715837272
>just four more than a regular boss
So literally a boss and a half long for any early players, you mong

He was perfect for Sonic
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aoYHOhJt4GU

>>715836780
absolute garbage taste

>>715831176
That's lovely, anon. I'm a longtime Sonic fan and I still prefer S3&K.

>>715813750
I kept saying chaotix should have been on the Genesis without that add-on. Extending the console's lifespan with more Sonic platformers was so simple, but they refused to do it. They could easily replace 3D blast with a traditional Sonic game. Dreamland 3 came out in '97.

>>715837928
No spindash, harder to build up speed.

>>715837928
It plays like a typical platformer from the era and doesn't lean into what would eventually become the strengths of Sonic gameplay as much as it should.
This doesn't make it a bad game, but it feels like a prototype for a Sonic game more than a complete Sonic game like Sonic 2.

>>715835582
It was designed as one game and the only reason it was ever released as two was because of a McDonald's promotion.

>>715842330
>it was released as two
Thanks for agreeing

>>715842414
Don't be an idiot sandwich

>>715804527 (OP)
>Why is it not as beloved as Sonic 2?
Because Sonic 3 and Knuckles exists

>>715842453
I'm not going to rewrite history just to placate zoomers. It was sold as two games for full price, and Sonic 3 was a massive disappointment. I don't care if Sega was stupid enough to sign a stupid deal with McDonalds.

>>715839713
KEEP SAYING IT

>>715841092
Sonic 1 isn't a bad game, it's just a bad Sonic game.

>>715839713
Extending the Genesis' lifespan at all, with or without addons, is part of what killed the Saturn in the US. The 90s were still when physical retail space was king, and every Genesis-related product meant they could stock fewer Saturn-related products. The moment the Saturn was released, it should've been a complete all-in support of the Saturn.

>>715804527 (OP)
i don't know what you mean because i've always thought it was a pretty even split between s2 and s3&k

Go Sonic Spinball!

>>715843080
>canonizes Sally
Including Spinball in Origins was a mistake.

>>715832386
>Sega is the one that separated them, you disingenuous fucktard.
Ok? What does that have to do with anything?

>>715843169
It was the shitty game gear version. Genesis version wasn't included

>>715843191
It has to do with the fact that they were released as separate games.

>>715804527 (OP)
Sonic 2 is the normie choice just like Tomb Raider 2, MGS 2, etc were. A game comes out and makes a big splash. The normie reads about it in vidya publications and buys the second one because it seems popular. The other games in the series will never make as big a splash, so they only end up playing that one, while the actual fans and hardcore gamers play them all and settle on the superior part 3 in each case.

>>715804527 (OP)
Because right after the first zone you do a water zone that has an annoying start that always kills me because I get don't get all the way up the ramp and then get squashed.

>>715804527 (OP)
classicucks only played Sonic 2. Sonic 3 is obviously the superior game

>>715818757
This.

>>715837041
Maybe among millennial journos who never emotionally moved past Christmas 1992. To actual big-time Sonic fans 3 (and Knuckles) was the peak of the franchise's 2D titles.

>>715843469
Sonic was always designed as and has remained a normalfag franchise.

>>715842860
Sonic CD is a bad Sonic game.

>>715805135
Sega as a whole fell off that year.

>>715818757
You can't talk about water zones and act like 1 and 3 are better than 2.

>>715844879
That's a very agreeable opinion.

>>715844879
It's carried hard by its soundtrack, just like SA2.

Wasn't alive back then, but I really miss the nineties.

>>715845523
Zoomers and Alpha are nostalgic for the 80s even though they never personally experienced anything from it so hey you aren't that weird.

>>715844238
Yeah that's true. If you live in a fantasy world of fucking faggots.

>Big Jim just grabbed Jacob's ass
CUUUUTEEEE

>>715804634
Game launched unfinished, surely wasn't because of the sound track that it was delayed.

>>715837928
this but Sonic CD

Any Knuckles' Chaotix enjoyers up? I dunno, it's just kinda fun to effortlessly fly around even if it's easy as fuck. It's lowkey a good stoner game. I wish I had friends to play it with because I've never done the true co-op experience.

>>715847403
Amazing OST and visual presentation, horrible level design and general gameplay
Sonic Advance 3 is kind of a better version of it despite missing the actual pulley/rubberband system

>>715847479
Sonic Advance 3 is a better version of it because it didn't have the rubberband system.

>>715847403

I got a 32X just to play this game.

>>715847651
Which year though?

>>715847757

1995.

>>715847820
But, at least you enjoyed it, right?

>>715836780
(You)

>>715847963

Oh, definitely. Knuckles was my hero as a kid.

>>715848738
Does he have to grab his balls everytime he jumps

>>715819332
This sounds terrible because it was recorded from a shitty emulator from 2007 you retard.

https://youtu.be/Nd5G9AzTAWU

>>715804527 (OP)
Only Nintendo tourists and casuals like 2 over 3

>>715851356
I was a Sega kid growing up and I liked 2 over 3. Didn't get to play S3&K until I was able to get the PC collection for cheap at a yard sale.

>>715848738
>The default team combo is the best

>>715851487
The actual best for secret-finding is Tails + Knuckles as I recall, Knuckles gets a double-jump on glide

>>715851468
> Didn't get to play S3&K until I was able to get the PC collection for cheap at a yard sale.
Like I said, tourists and casuals

>>715851541
okay zoomer

Everyone talks about the MJ collection but never the Teddy Riley connection

https://youtu.be/EASRXUyY7XM&t=180

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFgxzqKbrNk

>>715842918
>is part of what killed the Saturn in the US
That and focusing on the 32X instead of going ALL in on the Saturn. The N64 was fresh out the gate with DKC3 and Dreamland 3 like the other anon mentioned. They could have easily made some more Sonic games on it, good ones even if they were rehash-y. Hell, Chaotix could have been the experimental title to play around with new ideas for Sonic before the jump to 3D. Saturn and PS1 were two years old when 3D Blast released. More people still had a Genesis than those two consoles, like it or not.

>>715844879
it is actually not.
having the option to explore the levels instead of just speed through adds gameplay, not subtracts.

>>715804527 (OP)
The barrel in Carnival Night Act 2 filtered 90% of kids who played it.

>>715847403
The graphics in this game are so ugly

>>715805135
Ok but Sonic 3 came out in 1993. The xpac came out in 94 and I have the shoes to prove it.

>>715847651
suddenly much about you makes a lot of sense...
Virtua Fighter is the only actual 32X game i owned. i owned more than one 32X CD game, however.
i wanted DOOM but i never actually saw a physical copy.

>>715849238
Amy grabs her balls when she grinds and you guys love that

>>715804527 (OP)

A lot of the levels go on too long, and their complexity adds little to nothing to entertainment value. Most of the stages overstay their welcome, and don't really reward you for exploring anyway.

Contrast this with Sonic 2's flow style of stage design and gameplay. A run through a stage with charming obstacles and enemies woven into it. Sonic's about flow as much as he is about overcoming obstacles and Robotnik. Lose the flow, and you've lost a core part of what makes Sonic great and fun. Overly complex design is antithetical to his design and character. If you wanted complex level design that rewards exploring, then make the game about Knuckles or Tails.

Minibosses add little to the game. They're not a detraction, but they're not particularly interesting most of the time either.

The music is hit or miss. You get some bangers like Ice Cap and Flying Battery, but then most of the rest are forgettable.

Worst special stage in the series. I didn't think they could do worse than 2's special stage, but they pulled it off.

Yes, at least shields are cool.

>>715851356
Actually tendies are SA2fags because that was their first Sonic game.

>>715853242

I've found quite a few thanks to second hand stores. Lets see, Chaotix, Doom, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Racing, Motocross, Kolibri, Star Wars, Cosmic Carnage...I'd love to find Primal Rage one day.

>>715848079
let's be real for a moment.
if SatAM had gotten that season 3 as planned in 1995, you'd be on the train too.

>>715804527 (OP)
Nah, this game is the shit. All my niggas love Sonic 3.

>>715852669
hate to break it to you anon but it's just sort of "generic circus music"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNv2RHR62Rs

>>715853347
Train?

>>715818965
HANDS DOWN (one of) the greatest artists (of my childhood)

The "complexity" in S3K's levels: "hmm should I use the stage gimmick to go up or just take the easier lower path?"

>>715853331
No Tempo?

>>715853316
I'm talking the SNES kids that had a friend with a Genesis that they got to play once or twice.

>>715853331
i'd see Kolibri on the shelf, as with Chaotix. if Ecco could only get a couple of rentals out of me, a hummingbird shump wasn't gonna do anything.
i didn't bother with Primal Rage because i had Mortal Kombat.

>>715853347
>conjoined eyes
>Knuckles
Nah

>>715853456
supporter. fan. advocate.

>>715853496

That too. Heard good things.

>>715853449
True but I like to think it was part of the MJ influence since Riley worked closely with Jackson at the time (specifically he co-produced Dangerous, which was MJ's most recent album as of the time of S3&K) and the way it's used has a similar kind of vibe.

>>715853539
it's literally confirmed as Knuckles by the guy who animated the eyes, colored them and put them in at the behest of Sega. Sonic 3 was coming out during production and they wanted Knuckles teased.
so Ron Myrick did it.

makes sense its just the eyes, because that's all the public was allowed to see until the game released. he's just some eyes in a bush on the cover art.

>>715853685
Thats that wizard guy. Ixis something.

>>715853594
It's got some good animation (gif related) and nice visuals for the platform. Tempo Jr. probably has the best graphics on the Gamegear and I have yet to play Super Tempo but I've wanted to do so for years now.

>>715848738
the best sonic game ever

>>715853539
What if I told you Knuckles was initially designed similarly to Kiryu, where he's always scowling, causing you, the player, to think he has two separate eyes.

Obviously, that fact has been lost to time, similar to Sonic's shoes being retconned to sneakers rather than boots.

>>715804527 (OP)
>Angel Island Zone
>Hydrocity Zone
>Carnival Night Zone
>ICE CAP ZONE
It was peak.

The only things the other original games have over it are 2's special stages, Chemical Plant Zone, and Flying Battery Zone.

>>715804527 (OP)
because sonic got fat and ugly inbetween games
t.sonic 2 fanboy

>>715853875
But Flying Battery Zone is in Sonic 3

MJ is overrated, not because his songs are bad but rather because he was lazy as shit with the act 2 remixes. I respect the prototype for doing them properly.

>>715854002
Isn't it the second stage in & Knuckles?

>>715854137
No it's right before Ice Cap

>>715853875
Chemical Plant is overrated compared to Sonic 3's levels

>>715854137
It's the 8th stage of Sonic 3

Reminder that Sega tried to convince people that all of the glitches in the game were actually Robotnik's diabolical speed traps.

>>715851487
Knuckles + Amy is my favorite because of wall spindashing

>>715853854
Fuck off
/v/ isn't ready for that conversation

>>715819332
Nigger
>https://youtu.be/RPYzgCI6Q1I?si=v8lIbOBiug9fkPUD
>https://youtu.be/hYxlqTpZ-24?si=Qa-UFTr6vyUlIfFC

>>715853875
>2's special stages
Unironically mogged by 4 Ep2's

>>715854458
3D Blast Saturn is still the peak of halfpipe

>>715854195
>No ... Cap
This

>>715854432
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPNgC3gBaq4&list=RDiPNgC3gBaq4&start_radio=1

>>715854548
Only musically

>>715854701
I have never been so mad

>>715854195
Forgot that one anon, thanks. Thought it was in & Knuckles for some reason.

>>715855157
I know, it's sacrilege to eat a pizza like that, but princesses are typically insufferable. It's as endearing as it is disgusting, imo.

>>715853732
originally, when it was put in, 1994, it was done so on the orders of Sega and was supposed to be Knuckles.

when Ben Hurst made his 10 year anniversary season 3 attempt, he retconned it to Naugus.

>>715804527 (OP)
Since when? S3&K is the top choice for best Sonic. Sonic 2 is like the FFVI to S3&K's FFVII. Older game that's the second most likely to be considered the best by fans of the series.

If you mean 3 by itself without Knuckles, that's because most people nowadays treat it like just an incomplete game. It's still good on its own though, I like the final boss and original miniboss music.

>>715854195
Well yeah, if we are counting Sonic 3 & Knuckles as one game, then it isn't even fair.

Remember when Iblis returned in the Knuckles show?

>>715855302
>endearing
It's disgusting and she gets what she fucking deserves

>>715855608
>punches the Super out of Sonic in 3
>cleverly shifts the blame onto Sonic and Tails in SA1 when he lets Eggman get 2 Emeralds
>solos the monster that took Silver at full power and required Blaze to drag and drop herself into a new reality to seal (not even destroy)
>deflected and attack while cyberspaced before FH made everyone physical again
>appeared in Lost World for no reason
>led an army to victory against Eggman's global domination
Is there literally anything my mans can't do?

>>715855940
Have a good solo game?

>>715804527 (OP)
Terrible sprite

>>715814958
https://gamebanana.com/mods/252912
mods fixed it thoughbeit

>>715855771
God, I wish Amy could suffocate me with her butt and drown me in a fit of disgust.

>>715804527 (OP)
not as fast

we wanna go fast

>>715804636
2020?

It is dumbass. Most people say 3 is the best Sonic game. I don't know where you hear other wise.

>>715857781
from me. 2 is the best by far

>>715837928
based
this but with Sonic 1 and 2
Sonic 3 & Knuckles fanboys are too onions for SEGA

>>715857781
2 > 3
Sonic peaked with 2

>>715858289
>Sonic peaked with 2
But he beheld with 3&K and saw that it was good

Actual best Genesis theme coming through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRuJfhEeCe8

>>715857781
I disagree.