Thread 715840976

>"In my opinion (key word, opinion!), the Crash Bandicoot remake got almost everything right. Except the most important 30 milliseconds. When they remade Crash, they nailed the visuals. Looked great, faithful to the original, kept the spirit. Then they completely botched how jumping works.

>"On the original PlayStation, we only had digital buttons - pressed or not pressed. No analog sticks. Players needed different height jumps, but we only had binary input. Most games used the amateur solution: detect button press, trigger fixed-height jump. Terrible for platforming.

>"So we built something borderline insane. The game would detect when you pressed jump, start the animation, then continuously measure how long you held the button. As Crash rose through the air, we'd subtly adjust gravity, duration, and force based on your input. Let go early = smaller hop. Hold it down = maximum height. But it wasn't binary - I interpreted your intent across those 30-60 milliseconds and translated it into analog control using digital inputs.

>"The remake developers either didn't notice this system or thought it wasn't important. They reverted to simple fixed jumps. Then realized Crash couldn't make half the jumps in the game. Their solution was to make all jumps maximum height. Now every jump on the remake is huge and floaty. Those precise little hops between platforms are awkward. The game's fundamental jumping mechanic feels worse than the 1996 original despite running on hardware that's 1000x more powerful.

>"The minutiae of timing and feel matter a lot more than people realize."

Is there nothing Activision didn't fuck up?

Oh, so this is why people complain about the remake's controls?

>>715841275
The complaints are actually more about hitboxes, in the old games he and all the platforms and enemies were big boxes but in the remakes everything has rounded edges so if you land corner to corner you can slide off instead of getting the solid landing you would get with the same jump in the original.

>>715840976 (OP)
>Their solution was to make all jumps maximum height.
But that's wrong. You can short jump in the remake. It's required to get at least the platinum relics.

>>715841763
Not really. You have only TWO jump heights i.e. two maximum jumps vs the original games where you jump varied based on how long you held down the button...A thing which isn't unique to Crash and is how Mario & Sonic handle their jumps.

>>715840976 (OP)
Bought the n sane trilogy during the last steam sale
and he's right, they changed how momentum works and C1 is so dogshit to play now.

>>715840976 (OP)
Crash was never good

>>715840976 (OP)
>So we built something borderline insane. The game would detect when you pressed jump, start the animation, then continuously measure how long you held the button. As Crash rose through the air, we'd subtly adjust gravity, duration, and force based on your input. Let go early = smaller hop. Hold it down = maximum height.
What? Isn't that how jumping in platformers worked since Super Mario Bros?

>>715840976 (OP)
we have complained about it since its release in 2016. i know this because i was the one who pointed it out since i got it before its release date at least 2 weeks.

I liked both so no problem

>>715842745
No which is why the Nsane Trilogy doesn't have it.

Hate him or not hes speaking the truth.

>>715841534
Is there a mod that fixes these

>>715840976 (OP)
Glad I didn't pick it up for 90% off then.

>>715842745
Yes, but Andy isn't known for his modesty.

He's right. But at the same time I can't play as Coco in the OG so...

>>715840976 (OP)
We've had 10 years of threads of Kojima talking about inventing an in-game camera, so I really hope you autists don't let this bum get away with saying Naughty Dog created tapping or holding the button for different jump heights.

Very nice. What does he think about the manual save that can we do any time unlike in the original and about checkpoint system that saves destroyed boxes (still unlike in the og)?
This whole thing about jumps is either bs or skill issue. I played and finished this game easily but sure the first one is the hardest.

>>715840976 (OP)
This is the reason why The High Road became so notorious in the remake when it wasn't that bad in the original, I knew the jumping was fucked from the start.

>>715840976 (OP)
look at how fucking smart developers were back then compared to now

>>715844451
A modder found out that you can in fact change the hitbox to be rectangular, but then it would make Crash get stuck on every slopped terrain constantly, which is probably why the devs didn't do it.

>>715842745
>we'd subtly adjust gravity, duration, and force based on your input
This is the part that's unique, not the variable release jump height.
It's a subtle difference, the only games that also had it that early on was Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2. Mario 64's was different in how it behaved where you didn't get that extra floatiness the longer you held the button it simply gave you your max height but your gravity and duration was consistent due to the nature of the triple jump.

>>715842745
It isn't even something insane, but maybe ancient C++/C was a different beast where these kind of things were difficult.

When I used to fuck around in game maker I'd do something like
if (jump_pressed)
vsp = -8;
else if (jump_released && vsp < 0)
vsp /= 2;

I thought that's how most games did variable height jumping.

>>715848085
That's the casual way of doing it. Like I said here >>715847448, what Andy did was manipulate the values of gravity and force over duration to add an extra layer of floatiness so a full jump had you in the air for longer but your max jump height was still capped to a set height(2.5 crates).

this is like kojima saying he invented the camera

>>715840976 (OP)
I have been playing Crash 2 remake on PC and I'm pretty sure a quick press still does a quick hop, holding does a full jump, an d holding off of a bounce will do a high bounce jump

>>715848386
That's not what Andy is claiming though. He says:
>Most games used the amateur solution: detect button press, trigger fixed-height jump
That's false. That's like Donkey Kong arcade-tier jumping where there is only one single jump height and no matter what inputs you do it always plays an identical jump animation for an identical height.

>>715846846
It took you to The High Road to notice? I realized it as early as Native Fortress with one very specific jump near the end that required near frame perfect timing.

>>715846846
I noticed it very early on. Its funny how a remake is more annoying than the original which was considered moderately hard at best.

>>715840976 (OP)
They copied that from Mario. It was also copied by Mega Man, Sonic, basically every fucking platformer (even the one-and-done animal mascot ones nobody cares about today) through the 80s-mid 90s. He's a fucking tool for trying to claim that they did something "borderline insane" when it was a common feature for a decade before Crash came out.

But Mario did that since the fucking nes

>>715840976 (OP)
I played the demo when it came out and i noticed the jumping problem immediately
Avoided that garbage like the plague

>>715840976 (OP)
Glad I read this just now and this guy spoke up about this. I was actually considering getting this and Spyro but it seems I'm best left to just playing the originals instead if I want to play the Crash games again. I hate that these developers think they know it all when in truth they just don't. This shit keeps happening over and over and its not even just limited to the modern Crash team either. This happens with just about all of these demasters and demakes.

>>715851492
Nah, just mentioned High Road specifically because it's the one that people complained about the most.

>>715840976 (OP)
I mean... Okay? That's so great and/or I'm sorry that's happening to you I guess.

>>715844354
COCO'S COCOS

>>715853150
It's usually best to stick with the originals

>>715846286
If he didn't then who did?

how many times are you going to repost this thread

>>715842745
Rayman on PS1 behaved the exact same way

>>715840976 (OP)
>they nailed the visuals.
lol
lmao

>>715856510
So awful. They refused to put any effort into this.

>>715846527
>checkpoint system that saves destroyed boxes
that is a feature anon, not a bug. It's what made crash challenging. "Fixing" the checkpoints in the later entries casualized the game to a unrecognizable state

>>715856996
Can anyone besides ND even replicate this aesthetic now? They were at the top of the game in the 90s but I would struggle to find anyone else that could even match their thematic designs for the world in the original 4 games.

>>715857967
Not even ND can do that anymore, they hate fun now.

>>715840976 (OP)
>So we built something borderline insane. The game would detect when you pressed jump, start the animation, then continuously measure how long you held the button.
oh like super mario bros (1985)?

>>715857954
As opposed to it being 'competitive'?
Fuck off tranny, actually respecting the players time was the best change they made

>>715858074
>suddenly projects
just get good anon it's not that hard. Granted you would need the cool jumping system from the OG game but it's still possible with the new controls, just more awkward

>>715840976 (OP)
>they nailed the visuals

>>715858006
pacland (1984) actually

>>715858407
God I hate realism. Especially when there's no distinction between foreground and background

>>715840976 (OP)
>When they remade Crash, they nailed the visuals
Stopped reading.

>>715858000
Well that and all the people who made Crash and Jak got run out by the people who made Uncharted and TLOU. If they stayed well who knows.

>>715858441
No. Pac-Land does not have this.

>>715840976 (OP)
Reading this has just pissed me off for the entire day. What a fucking moron. First of all as everyone else has pointed out, he's bragging about a feature that's been in every platormer since Super Mario Bros as if it's some crazy maverick innovation. But also, he has no idea what he's talking about. 30 milliseconds is less than one frame in his shitty 30 FPS platformer. So the engine can't even sample the inputs he's talking about, but being generous and assuming he means 1 frame, he's also a fucking idiot because short jumps aren't frame perfect and that would feel like absolute shit.

>>715848386
If you have to do anything complicated to get basic NES platformer jumping behavior, your engine is shit and your code is garbage. This story is complete bullshit.

>>715861614
>Reading this has just pissed me off for the entire day.
lol

Somebody mod the relic runs for Crash 1 and 2 so I don't have to play N.Sane Trilogy anymore

I'm glad /v/ discouraged me from getting the remake during the summer sale.

>>715861614
>30 milliseconds is less than one frame in his shitty 30 FPS platformer. So the engine can't even sample the inputs he's talking about
To be fair, input polling and game rendering can run at different rates. They aren't necessarily tied (and usually only shoddily made games do).

>>715842745
You don't get it. He invented variable jump heights, and Hideo Kojima invented cameras

>>715857967
nothing like this, but reminds me of path of exile kaom's stronghold
Like, you want to do fire, DO fire, all fire, all business all the time

>>715842745
Yeah, the Crash team isknown for being delusional.

They legit try and tell people that Crash was bigger than Mario at one point.

>>715846527
>Saving
Just use the Super Password brah.

>>715866020
And I love them for it.

Still amazed at how Crash is dead yet Bubsy is somehow still alive.

>>715840976 (OP)
>But it wasn't binary - I interpreted your intent across those 30-60 milliseconds and translated it into analog control using digital inputs.
Why are developers always such insufferable faggots? It's a jump not the fucking Sistine Chapel

>>715866020
Crash on PS1 was bigger than Mario on 64. The delusion would be thinking otherwise, on a console and brand that up until the Switch was always in the shadow of something else.

>>715866020
desu I never heard about mario until like 2010 and had 3 crash games for ps1

>>715840976 (OP)
>So we built something borderline insane
... that's how the first Super Mario on NES does it.
At the time of the PS1 it was already the default behavior for any half-decent platformer.

>>715847001
lol
That's /agdg/ "my first Unity project" tier of gamedev problems.
How incompetent were they, that they decided to fuck up the entire game instead of solving something you can the answer to with a google search.

I invented the idea "jump"

>>715840976 (OP)
Why are platformerfags so obsessed with having perfect precise controls in games made for 5 year olds?

>I NEED-A DA FASTEST SCREEN IN DA WORLD TO MAKE-A DA JUMP IN-A MARIO

>>715856360
Dude! She's looks 12!

>>715858479
>realism
The issue in that webm is desaturation and lack of contrast. But nothing about it appears realistic.

>>715861614
Game engine logic are not tied to in game fps.
Well, if you're not fucking retarded dev (most of japans games, gamebryo, etc.)

>>715847001
terrainslop

the games are still easy as shit. skill issue.

what does it matter if it controls differently if the game is easy as hell?

>>715840976 (OP)
More like andy gayvin

>>715840976 (OP)
or how about the fact that they randomly made some collision boxes pill shaped, or that if you hold forward you'll actually slowly drift off the path unlike the original. The only people who like the nsane trilogy are people whose interactions with video games are so superficial that they're easily fooled by window dressing. same with bluepoint remake slop.

>>715846527
sneed zoomer

>>715849689
and he's right. theres thousands of games with this shit jump. mario and sonic stood out because they had good controls.

I haven't played the remake in like 8 years or whatever but I don't remember not being able to control jump height in crash 1

>>715864279
>Hideo Kojima invented cameras
this is unironically true though ans everyone who says otherwise is either being disingenuous (intentionally misinterpreting his comment) or simply clueless

>>715872094
It's hard to tell how much of it is shitposting and how many people actually believe in it.
Kojima was simply referring to the in-game "Camera" item in MGS1.

>>715872026
Because you can

>>715856360
Thanks for reminding me I should get on my Coco account more often.

>>715840976 (OP)
It's just dumb nitpicking since all the tech from the original is usable in the new game. It's not like NGS2's broken tracking

>>715872783
actually he was referencing to the actual camera and how it would shift to different angles while leaning against wall, or first person with certain weapons.

>>715873058
It was literally the in-game item.

>>715866020
Late-40s fag here, during the PS1 era literally everyone played the crash games, he did have a period where he was easily the top dog of platforming

>>715867495
What kind of third world shithole do you live in? Even in slavlands Mario is known thanks to famiclones and the TV show.

>>715840976 (OP)
The Crash games were never good. I remember trying the demo for Crash when I got my PS1 and could not figure out why everyone was going crazy for this shit.

>I invented the concept "jumping with buttons"
SMB1 did his "insane" idea...

Yeah cool who gives a fuck now where is nitro fueled for PC?
You know I don't give a shit anymore, sonic crossworlds probably just gonna fill that PC kart racer gap fuck you faggots for holding nitro fueled hostage forever

>>715846286
He didn't say that.

>>715873424
the first tweet proves me right lmao

>>715840976 (OP)
I'm literally going for all achievements right now already 102%'d the best game, crash 2 and I can definitely say that the jump controls ARE shit. Getting the platinum on the second bridge level in crash 1 was a fucking terrible experience, it was a coin flip whether my jumps were too short or too far. I ended up giving up and sticked to the rope cheese
Still better than the PS1 versions though, I fucking hate 30FPS despite growing up with the goddamn PAL PS1

>>715840976 (OP)
>>"So we built something borderline insane. The game would detect when you pressed jump, start the animation, then continuously measure how long you held the button.
Doesn't Mario do this on the NES?

>beat all n trilogy with the highest % you can get per individual game
>original fags will shit and fart that it somehow does not count and that they are more skilled

>>715875167
We knew about mario but crash was the "thing".

>>715866020
kek, I legit knew n64 for zelda and banjo. later on I found out "oh, there's a mario".

>>715866020
>at one point
Exactly at one point. Definitely in places where N64 bombed.

>>715875167
later on I did learn that my cousin had mario on his famiclone 99999 in 1 cartridge but we only played that one tank game on it and no one really gave shit about mario or nintendo
it was all about ps1/ps2 and pc games
I guess the only relevant part of nintendo on the market was gameboy with pokemon

>>715858407
the anti-soul fog claims another victim............

but seriously why do we have fog in a fucking corridor platformer what the fuck barely anything is even on the screen HOW do you fuck this up

>>715862930
Wish they did the same for me...

>>715876729
I went back recently and played it on PS1 and I didn't remember it being anywhere near as bad as it it (it is still tolerable on CRT) but I guess I was a dumb child and didn't know any better

>>715840976 (OP)
>In my opinion (key word, opinion!)
why are they always afraid. you're the co-creator of one of the most know mascots, call the fucking retards out. it's bad. it's objectively bad. the ones responsible are X Y Z. call the motherfuckers out with no remorse, stop tip-toeing around. they are bad or they are not and made a mistake, shit happens, but let them take responsibility. fuck them, the nu-games are shit and the bootlickers can kiss my fucking ass.

>>715840976 (OP)
Feels like this was an issue directly caused by not hiring any if the original devs as consultant. Feels like a lot of tech wizard magic could have been recreated if they did

>>715885042
>didnt hire Charles Zembillas to help with art direction again
>didnt hire Josh Mancell to get the clearer, crisper, pre console mixes
>didn’t even ask anyone from the old ND team how the controls should be
>didnt even attempt to get some of the old voice cast back from the originals (the alive ones at least)

>>715885042
>not hiring any if the original devs as consultant
We are big fans who respect the original creators!.. But not in this way, what those fuckin' dementia-ridden fossils may know about our refined modern day gamedev?
t.toys for bob, vicarious visions and many others

>>715841956
It's how every good game handles jumps.
Fuck, even I implemented it in a shitty gamemaker game I worked on for 3 hours before giving up. It's the most basic shit.

>>715840976 (OP)
Just play the OG Crash games in HD with emulators and with Retroachievements. It's the same shit as the remakes but better.

>>715840976 (OP)
I don't get how they didn't notice this, it's like they're retarded

>>715840976 (OP)
They get the most fucktarded brain dead faggots to demake this fucking shit

>>715840976 (OP)
what the fuck was wrong with the devs for the remakes man... it's like they never even played the originals

>>715840976 (OP)
I don't really know what he means by any of this because I tap the button in that game for a shorter time and I get a smaller jump, but holding the button gives me a bigger jump. This has to be a nonissue considering the only major issue people have complained about with the remakes is the hitboxes.

>>715840976 (OP)
holy shit this. I thought I suddenly sucked at this game after not playing for years or some shit. no matter how I time the jumps, they never consistently feel right and sometimes I'm short just an inch and fall to my death.

>>715886261
there's only two set variations of jump height. normally (two arches), there would be a wide breath of variation (picture rainbow arches) depending on how long the player held down the button

>>715840976 (OP)
why would you remake a platformer and not recreate the movement mechanics? what were they even thinking

>>715886746
Hmm, I see. I guess I'll need to check them side by side to get a feel for what this is about.

>>715856996
I get irrationally angry over sunset vista in the remake.

>>715869578
Every single Crash remakes are just Skylander reskins, they didn't give a fuck.
And since they sold dozens of millions of copies, no one else cared either.

>>715841275
I just hit Cold Hard Crash on the remake and the ice physics make me want to blow my brains out. Absolute garbage.

>>715882832
you can't voice your opinions directly in anno domini
someonne might hurt their feefees

name 1 good remake that's isn't some soulless slop

>>715887103
The ice physics don't get shit on enough in NST
>Skating fast on ice
>Jump over enemy or crate or sometimes even a pit
>All that speed is cut and it's like I'm doing a normal jump
>If I was adjusting for my increased speed I'm now slowing down and hitting what I tried to jump over
Pisses me off every time

>>715887304
re4

>>715887304
Metroid Zero Mission

>>715887730
lol

>>715840976 (OP)
>creator
The creators were David Siller and Zembelas you piece of shit.

>>715887859
This

>>715887304
Tactics Ogre Reborn

>>715844451
I think they patched it in one of the updates.

Is that the same guy who was frothing at the mouth seething in 96 because Mario 64 mogged Crash so hard?

>>715887304
King Kong 2005 and its game.

No shit the jump mechanics are botched. Bought this on sale and Crash dies a dozen times to jumps for every enemy death.

>>715841275
>People understood what made the originals great
>HURR NOSTALGIAFAG
>HURR ENTITLEMENT
This isn't a jab towards you, just stating those exact responses. Old good because they knew what they were doing. New bad because they don't know what they're doing.

>>715842745
He's being a smartass, but it's justified when developers today can't do what games in 1985 and 1996 perfected.

Demakes are... le bad?

>>715885042
the technical wizardry that made crash 1 work aren't really necessary
>memory isn't super constrained anymore so manually paging 16KB chunks into RAM from the CD-ROM isn't necessary
>rendering hardware is significantly less constrained so deleting libraries that sony published for math handling isn't necessary to render 1500 polys at runtime.
>saving systems are superior to 30 years ago
>occlusion culling is just a thing that engines do now, you aren't coding things in assembly anymore to get the most out of the hardware
getting the original ND staff on as consultants would have helped but not as much as you think it would have. The technical edge that Andy Gavin engineered in the 90s is simply no longer present unless you're trying to target super low end hardware.

>>715887304
RS minstrel song

>>715869578
>How incompetent were they, that they decided to fuck up the entire game instead of solving something you can the answer to with a google search.
You know how /v/ whines about "WHY DOESN'T EVERY DEV TEAM USE AN IN-HOUSE ENGINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
This is why. This wasn't something they could fix "with a google search." That'd be if they were actually on something like Unity. This was something too ingrained into how their engine handled collision for the other purposes it was used for that it'd be a massive undertaking to fix.

I don't care. Do I BUY Spyro remake or Crash remake?

>>715891908
Neither.

>>715891908
No. Just play the originals.

>always hear about how good but frustrating Crash games are
>decide to get the Trilogy during Summer to try them out
>read this thread
...Well, fuck.
Think they will accept a refund petition if I have a little over 2 hours of playtime (at least to my Steam Wallet)? Or should I just tough it out?

>>715892562
Nigga if you don’t stop acting like a pussy and play the damn game

>>715861614
>Reading this has just pissed me off for the entire day.
Consider taking some anger management courses, buddy.

>>715857015
Until everyone understands that the N.Sane trilogy sucked ass.

>>715891939
>>715892116
I'm buying one. Dont make me buy both.

>>715892562
If you can't get your money back, tough it out, then play the originals and then you can say that the controls are worse in the remakes and no one can accuse you of being a nostalgiafag because you actually saw it through.

>>715840976 (OP)
I'm sure that's all true but nothing is more pathetic than has beens whining because they haven't done shit for two decades and they're desperate for attention.

>>715892959
Please save your money. Buy some food instead.

Frankly, I prefer how the originals look too

>>715891908
Crash has a better quality remake than Spyro
>Art style is more faithful than Spyro's extreme redesigns
>Adds more content that is fitting to the games (relics for crash 1, coco, future tense, stormy ascent)
>Does not have physics issues at high FPS unlike the spyro remake
das about it

>>715892698
I am though, it's been fairly fun, but man do I feel the rounded edges often, and I'm not that advanced either, can only imagine what it will be like later on...

>>715893092
I've got the exact amount of food I need for the next 2 weeks (2100 kcal)

Hmmmm which one do I buy?

>>715892562
Instead of being an NPC and asking for daddy 4chan to tell you the right thing you could try using your critical thinking skills and decide for yourself

>>715857015
Better than posting an AI slop general or twitter bullshit.

I literally just 100% the whole trilogy with 74/74 achievements in 23 hours and had zero issues with any controls besides the ice sliding in Crash 2. I even got all the platinum relics in the first 2 games even though you only need gold. How shit can you be?

>>715891802
>Massive undertaking to fix
Nigger, Sonic the fucking Hedgehog games do it. You know? Sanik? Guy with shitty games bought by autists. If the devs can't code better than the Nippon slaves at Sanik Team, they need to re-evaluate their lives...with a shotgun.

P.S. This also implies every game that uses Vicarious Visions in-house engine going all the way back to Crash Nitro Kart has shitty controls. The Vicarious Faggots definitely can't code.

>>715890191
>Crash dies a dozen times to jumps for every enemy death.
As opposed to Mario 64 where you've probably never died to an enemy a single time because they all drop coins that heal you back?

>>715892959
DO IT FAGGOT
and post receipt

>>715894179
Clearly you don't understand video game development at all.

>>715840976 (OP)
This is why you NEVER buy remakes/remasters. They're made by retards who are nowhere near as smart as the original developers, which means they always fuck something up.

>>715894690
No, please explain to me how Vicarious Visions are more incompetent than FUCKING SONIC TEAM, LOOOOOL!

>>715894875
The situation was already explained, you just don't understand it