Which philosophy is superior for game creation, in your opinion?

>>715864958 (OP)
Bottom, on the basis of the natural state of man being a continuous state of reevaluating everything he knows, and everything he thinks he knows.
The top is just a cope and a terrible excuse for lazy design that doesn't seek to improve, foisting the burden upon the viewer instead.

>>715864958 (OP)
Top is literally slave mentality
If you're making art make it genuinely and to the best of your ability, limited though it may be.

>>715864958 (OP)
I feel like making things intentionally shitty to screw with the player and make them think whatever comes after is even better due to their expectations being subverted is a kind of shitty thing to do, arguably worse than just making something shitty for a laugh/ironic intent, but I don't know how to describe exactly why I feel that way without resorting to argumentative buzzwords like "dishonest development" or some shit. Dishonest game design? I don't know.

>>715864958 (OP)
Neither, but closer to the bottom. You should strive to make something good and to improve yourself and your product. But at the same time, perfectionism can be a trap and at some point you just have to let go and release something and accept that art will never be perfected.
the top is just retarded though, I don't even get what he's trying to say. that he doesn't want to get people's expectations too high? just a shitty attitude, reeks of insecurity.

>>715864958 (OP)
undertale designs look better

>>715865426
that's exactly what he's saying, yeah. he made a writeup for his original romhack that talks all about "the impression I wanted to give the player is that the person hacking this game is very lazy" (so he can subvert it later) and it pretty clearly shows itself in undertale and deltarune as well.

>>715865426
it's not insecurity, it's so that he can hit you with shit like this out of nowhere and you'd never expect it.

>>715865627
But you wouldn't expect that even if the player's sprite didn't look like shit.

>>715865627
So it's to le subvert your expectations? Ok, I mean that's not much better, and like anon above said I think you could do that without making your game intentionally look like shit. I would actually prefer the reason being that he just isn't all that interested in aesthetics and visual art, and just did what he could to provide a visual shell for the game he wanted to make. Instead of it being some kind of commentary or purposeful reduction. But I'm not a successful game dev so what do I know.

>>715866082
Shut the fuck up retard, there is LITERALLY nothing wrong with subverting expectations or throwing a twist in at a stories climax, the only thing that matters is execution

>>715866261
>no argument whatsoever
Sorry for offending your e-daddy, I accept your concession

>>715866261
>"dude just eat it man, it only LOOKS like a pile of shit but trust me dude there's a surprise buried in there somewhere that you'll never see coming"

>>715864958 (OP)
top is just saying don't make everything look like the sistine chapel coz then you'll have a bigger workload

>>715866261
Not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with that, just that you don't need to make the rest of your game intentionally shitty in order to do that.

>>715866428
no it isn't

>>715864958 (OP)
I don't think Fox's "philosophy" is necessarily translatable to other games. Even the other games that he will make in the future. Undertale is all about being subversive, and the simplistic art that the game hits you with at the start is one of the vehicles to achieve that sensation, since there's also plenty of higher-quality art that's thrown at you later. If you tried that shtick with another game, it would feel old and played out. So I think Barone's "philosophy" is more universally applicable.

>>715864958 (OP)
tobdy fox doesnt even feel like a real person anymore

>>715864958 (OP)
This thread is full of dimwits. The two quotes aren't mutually exclusive since Toby's quote concerns artistic vision and ape's is about iterative process.

>>715866382
You didn't have an argument either? Do you even have an argument against it that doesn't boil down to it being used badly or being overused, neither of which proves the concept itself is bad?

>>715868335
he has ascended to machine-translated salaryman. (laugh)

>>715865426
it's undertale you know the art of that game sucks. he's saying "goddamn I'm a shit artist, but that said how do I work around being this much a fraud? well there's that"

>>715869386
how the fuck do you live toby's life and advance through toby's career and still act the way he does? (derogatory)

>>715869556
>goddamn I'm a shit artist
That's why Temmie did the majority of the art. He specifically told her to make the player look like shit, along with some other sprites she had to make look worse.

>>715864958 (OP)
>min maxing your dev skills (in this case, art vs music)
>getting good at everything
really depends on what you want out of your project. the answer lies in between, play to your strengths and work on your weaknesses