Thread 715909805

What's your favorite Diablo clone that's not Path of Exile?

>>715909805 (OP)
I guess it has to be grim dawn then even though I don't really like it that much. It's just the gap between actual Diablo (2), PoE, and GD is so fucking massive compared to all the other clones it's not really a contest.

Victor vran

>>715909805 (OP)
path of exile goddamit i blew it didnt i?

grim dawn is up there for me

i liked torchlight 2 as well

Chronicon

incredible adventures of van helsing

>>715910680
Van Helsing is great too

>>715911038
first two torchlights were peak comfort games

>>715909805 (OP)
Hated the environments and enemies in this game. So bland, zero creativity or style. Made the whole thing very unpleasant to play and forgettable.

>>715911212
i think tower defense in arpgs is the neatest shit

>>715911259
My favorite part of Torchlight 1 was being able to roll new properties onto items and then prestige them. After a few playthroughs I had a level 6 ring that gave massively inflated values for health and damage because of an overflow error.

>>715909805 (OP)
Path of Exile 2

>>715911265
same, I nearly fell asleep both times I tried to play it. Titan Quest at least kept me interested with its setting

>>715911380
They made a game that's just the tower defense sections - https://store.steampowered.com/app/310510/Deathtrap/

>>715911265
I like the grimdark setting but yeah I can see why it gets tiresome fighting the nth iteration of a crystal-infused mutated flesh monstrosity.

>>715909805 (OP)
survivors games. why grind for 100 hours to minmax your shit when you can achieve the same in 20 minutes.

>>715911535
why play the video games to feel the good feelings? just take drugs.

Does grim dawn also more or less force you to invest all points into a single skill for the damage to not be shit?
I want some goddamn variety

>>715909805 (OP)
Sacred

After Poe2 all ARPGs should have WASD movement or proper controller support. The move with mouse shit was always janky, no reason to have it anymore

>>715911661
I think some builds are different in the sense that you regularly cast buffs and debuffs but AFAIK most specs usually just use 1-2 damaging abilities yeah.

[Gay] Sex with loading screen guy!

>>715911802
Shame

>>715911618
why take drugs, just meditate

>>715911887
Though it should be said that you can beat the game doing whatever the fuck you want to, you don't need to minmax unless you plan on doing endgame content on the highest difficulty.

I got excited when V rising came out

then I realized it was a souls survival game RIP

>>715909805 (OP)
Nioh 1 & 2

>>715911892
why mediate when you can just sneed

>>715912045
basebuilding is still pretty cool thoughbeit, i love feeling like an aristocratic vampire

>>715911661
so play a fucking mmo

>>715911535
Any recommendations? VS was too flashy for me, Halls of Torment was great, and I'm currently playing Death Must Die.

>>715912115
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LoQtm-LoUiw

>>715911461
wow anon, thanks. how did i never think to look at their other games

>>715912261
nordic ashes is my all time favorite
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2068280/
https://youtu.be/JITbEnQdk7k?list=PLEnz2EwvYH7AyfT0fBCC3-MKHm5b4m798&t=109

>>715911661
As a cabalist (necromancer/occultist), I have four summons up, two of which are my main damage dealers, and I'm piano-keying buffs/debuffs on like, every pack.
Grim Dawn has this constellation system, where you can supplement your regular skills w/ % proc effects, so my AoE debuff can also summon a whirlpool on hit that can deal damage, or whatever. Ultimately, a lot of your off-skills will just be support abilities that spawn more minions, or heal you, or debuff enemies, but you do press more than one button during gameplay.
Skills have both a soft, and a hard cap, so you're encouraged to invest into other abilities after a point. Like, you might only be able to invest 12/12 points into Raise Skeletons, but you can go up to 24 with skill point bonuses from gear.

what are you gonna pair berserker with when fangs releases boys?

>>715913056
Most likely soldier. It's probably the best secondary "just dump points when you start dying" mastery, and I'll want the primary skills from berserker.

>>715913442
Might go inqisitor. Aura of censure will be better for a cold damage build, then melee to build onslaught stacks for a rune of hagarrad nuke.

>>715912219
if there's one thing aristocrats are known for, it's manual labor and construction

>>715913820
aristocrats are known for living in large and intricate castles, which you can build in that game

>>715913056
>originally planned for 2024
>delayed to this year
>now they're saying if it doesn't come out this year, it'll be summer 2026

fucks sake

>>715909805 (OP)
Titan Quest

>>715913056
oathkeeper
so i can make even more shield throwing builds

>>715913056
Going with Occultist for the chaos support.

>>715911661
You can do a skill reset for a really low cost so you can change up your build if you get bored of it.

>>715909805 (OP)
It is a really hard choice. I like Divine Divinity, Sacred GOLD, NoX, Torchlight and Path of Exile. Torchlight and PoE are the most like Diablo. Divine Divinity, Sacred and Nox are a lot more unique.

>>715910680
I remember this game!

i've been playing nightblade + soldier build for fast melee and it's pretty fun desu

>>715912261
brotato

>>715911661
Play piano builds if one key isn't enough for you.

>>715911869
Literally built for breeding me

Speaking of berserker, is it any good in titan quest? I wanted to pair warfare with rune, but dream or nature just seem like better options. Currently being carried through the game by this battle standard though, it's insane.

Last Epoch and Grim Dawn are my top 2.

last epoch competes with grim dawn for me, im glad another very good offline arpg entered the market

Titan Quest

Path of Exile 2

>>715915059
does it allow u to replay older seasons or do they keep stacking features on top of the old ones?

>>715909805 (OP)
Titan Quest, followed by GD.

>>715913056
soldier for a blade arc bleed crit build
my bleed warder already does pretty good numbers so I'm curious if this will be better

>>715915201
i dont think so, you can download older versions of the game and play them since its offline, so there's that at least

>>715915391
might be a smart move since their cadence is very slow so it would be easy to catch up while not missing out anything unique specific to a season

>>715912962
Sounds neat
Thanks for the detailed answer

>>715915626
>since their cadence is very slow
pun intended anon?

>>715913056
Definitely want to do something with Wereraven but not sure what to pair it with.

>>715915936
occultist? you can be a raven man and have a raven pet.

>>715915936
nightblade or inqusitor seem like the best pairs for cold damage, maybe arcanist

>>715911461
>2015
>1.8k reviews
oof

>>715916013
In Grim Dawn? NTA but I rolled Occultist as well and went full Raven perks so far and holy shit that thing one hit kills with maxed out lightning bolts. Wolf seems weak. Anything else I should go? Was thinking picking the Eye too.

Is V Rising actually fun as far as combat goes?

>>715909805 (OP)
Path of Exile is the only good one, everything else is less engaging than even gacha. I wouldn't even consider Grim Dawn to be a real video game.

>>715916092
How would it interact with the skills based off of weapon damage? Grimtools' version mentions 'cannot trigger weapon pool skills' but I'm not sure what that means.

>>715909805 (OP)
Grim Dawn is great.

>>715909805 (OP)
You've got to have an IQ below 60 to enjoy grim dawn. I got zero respect for people that play that, that's a red flag game like elder scrolls and fallout where you just know the person is a moron instantly the second they bring it up.

>>715917273
>You've got to have an IQ below 60 to enjoy grim dawn.
20 IQ site
20 IQ board

>>715917273
>any video game
>requiring intelligence

>>715917273
Based chad

>>715917042
My own preference with occultist is always Dreegmaxxing in conjunction with oathkeeper.

>>715917370
Yeah, games are supposed to be a series of obstacles and Grim Dawn has none. You're running for Grim Dawn because you want to veg out and not think. Might as well just watch netflix and leave this board alone.

>>715917273
what do you play then

>>715917554
i can only imagine how you would react to an actual intellectual obstacle, youd probably be saying "huhhh?" out loud like some kind of caveman

>no cute female character model
Grim dawn sucks

>>715917630
I play path of exile for exactly 1 week after a new season releases, leverage the economy to speed through endgame content and become mega rich, then drop it. Then I go back to playing real video games.

>>715917848
>shits on game
>plays another one that's exactly like it except it has an online component that turns it into a pseudo MMO where everyone just rushes to the end

ok retard

>>715917273
>tfw too smart to enjoy ARPGs

>>715917765
yeah sucks my pee pee
also last time i posted statue sphinx tits i got banned. amazing

>>715917957
>plays another one that's exactly like it except it has an online component that turns it into a pseudo MMO
Yeah that's the entire point of Diablo 2. That's the only relevant component. Mashing M1 at loot pinatas that give gear that's entirely vertical upgrades isn't interesting gameplay, that's extremely depressing and you shouldn't be here.

>>715911212
1 is great until the endgame, 2 & 3 learned nothing about balancing.

>>715911265
Same had to refund after 46 minutes. Fucking boring

>>715917848
>I play path of exile
So you've got absolutely no right whatsoever to look down on anyone playing Grim Dawn.

>>715918067
>I only get enjoyment if I can play fake economy with other people

Kek you probably never even played a hardcore character in any arpg

>>715918119
Yeah I do, Grim Dawn is a retarded reddit "game" for people who don't want to think about whats happening and be spoonfed gear while doing the same thing over and over. Where's the gameplay?

>>715918197
>Kek you probably never even played a hardcore character in any arpg
I play the seasonal HCSSF races in PoE. These remix the game and make it much harder, and I enjoy strategizing with and racing against other people.

>>715918235
you are describing every diablo clone ever. stop thinking you're smart because you play the lesser shit game. if you want real gameplay and challenge go play souls games or devil may cry instead of your lootclicker disguised as a game (where everyone just follows the same build posted on reddit or what streamers use)

>>715918301
You actually deserve to be strangled.

>>715918425
poe 2 is just another soulslike though

>>715918301
>remix the game and make it much harder

>>715910680
>>715911132
>>715911212
>>715911259
>>715911734
these

>>715918552
That's not even the right game, poe2 doesn't have races

>>715909805 (OP)
Grim Dawn is one of those amoeba brained slav games for edgy teens and discord furries.

>>715911265
Thats fine, the game falls apart after you clear the mines at the beginning of act 2

>>715918781
Don't samefag, cretin.

>>715918720
anon said poe, not poe2

>>715909805 (OP)
Grim Dawn is definitely up there but I've been enjoying Last Epoch a bit. I like that you can bake in other abilities you unlock into the actual abilities you use as a passive way to do extra damage.

>>715918941
And the reply was footage of poe2. You can't do that in poe1.

>>715911661
Depends on the build, but even auto-attack builds will have support skills to keep you alive by either buffing you or debuffing your enemies. Templar has a good righteous fervor build but it relies on a monster infrequent to work at all. A lot of builds in the game rely on specific gear to work, so I suppose that makes it a good arpg.

>>715918965
The skill system in both grim dawn and last epoch is awfully linear, it's a total illusion of depth when every class has like 2 decent builds and they all function the same. It's itemization and crafting is also abysmally retarded.

>>715915059
I'd like it more if they just dropped the excuse that they can't do transmog when they clearly can since they're selling full sets for like 5 bucks a pop.

>>715918984
>>715918720
they added pause to PoE1 with the new league

>>715918920
Is this projection? These generals have been ongoing for years and it's one mentally ill brony that accidentally outted himself a couple months back.

>>715918552
Why is he constantly pausing the game?

>>715919163
not like it matters anyway, before people would just alt+f4 before dying

>>715919190
harcore, he'll quit if he thinks he's in danger so he doesn't lose his character

>>715919189
fuck are you even talking about?

>>715911265
Agree, the world is just to generic, still i played 30 hours with dual welding ice swordman mage, super kino

>>715919190
He's attempting to game the system by giving himself more time to react, but poe is about layering defenses, not avoiding damage, and he loses the run shortly afterwards.

>>715919069
it's worse in PoE because there's one best setup for each skill and it's always 'moar projectiles!1!1' and if you're not using a seasonal meta skill you're basically bricking your character.

>>715917848
>I play path of exile
LMAO

>>715919263
I have NEVER understood this mentality with HC players. What's even the point of playing HC at that point?

>>715919310
Why is there constant spam of a dead game with like 100 players? There are more posts in this thread than there are people playing grim dawn. These weird astroturfing rpg threads are incredibly boring, it's why /vrpg/ died because it became one spamming ESL faggot's personal advertisement space.

I'm starting to think this whole genre is retarded and archaic for people with massive sunken cost fallacy who can't let go and play other games

>>715919310
please ignore newfags and their newfag babble

>>715919415
Clout of beating it on stream. They're not doing it for fun.

>>715919480
No wonder they always look so miserable on camera!

>>715919415
>What's even the point of playing HC at that point?
It's because PoE is bullshit game. Try to play hardcore. It's interesting but not in PoE (time consuming and risky). Start from roguelikes not lites. You will understand. Try Battle Brothers.

>>715919336
>it's worse in PoE because there's one best setup for each skill
You can pull up poe.ninja and see that there's an objectively far greater build diversity than any other ARPG. Every player is catalogued so this is objective and inarguable data. Additionally, different attentions have different paths to offense and defense, a Slayer isn't stacking evasion for example, but a trickster is, and these all have unique synergies and layers to make them work that you have to figure out for yourself, because no progression isnt entirely vertical since theres no many different elements playing off of each other.

>>715919595
Battle Brothers isn't a roguelike, are you retarded

>>715919615
In no uncertain terms: FUCK OFF.

>base game is about aetherial invasion
>you turn into c'thonians mid game and stop caring about aetherials
>low tier ending considering c'thon itself has interesting lore
>first expac
>you finally go against aetherials
>you end up fighting a literal who
>second expac
>the boss is an entity that was barely mentioned in a secondary quest in base game
developing plots is not one of crate's entertainment virtues it seems

>>715919595
I understand the appeal of HC in general. I just don't understand playing it then effectively cheating by logging out at the slightest hint of danger.

It's real 'you didn't beat the game' vibes to me.

>>715919707
You didn't make this thread to have a discussion, you made this thread because you wanted a picture of grim dawn in the catalogue for 20 hours. This is astroturfing, not discussion.

>>715919670
I know it's not roguelike. Just remember suddenly the game that can give anon "taste of permadeath" but not so punishing.

>>715919794
I didn't make this thread.

>PoE has more build diversity
lmao

>>715919767
I didn't watch his PoE2 streams but there should be proper context why is he doing this. He plays normally as I remember in PoE1.

>>715919848
You shouldn't play battle brothers on Ironman for your first run. One of its biggest flaws is its meta aids where only like 3 skills of 80 are decent and you'll lost 10 hours of progress on a random difficulty spike. Much simpler to play an actual roguelike that's only an hour or so long. We start with DCSS because it teaches good fundamentals.

>>715919901
Bro this game is 10+ 100 plays you shouldn't play old singleplayer games man play PoE online only epic loot no classes it's kino frfr cap dude play it do RMT make real money

>>715919107
yeah i kinda hate they forgot to make armor and weapons for people that actually paid the game and not cosmetics

>>715919735
I thought Korvaak was a fun villain, I liked the reading the hidden notes about how the witch gods stole his power

>>715919735
developing plots is not one of arpg's virtues in generalm, the lore in grim dawn is pretty interesting though

>>715919872
People honestly take how effective top builds over other stuff as 'zero build variety'. I've beaten Ubers on some pretty shit builds before. Like... the effectiveness of Hammerdin doesn't necessarily mean everything else is just garbage.

>>715915059
Wait, it's offline? I was under the impression that it required servers and shit

I hate that /v/ is infested with teen slavs larping as ebin boomers because they play the most casual kusogue imaginable. Any retard can play grim dawn, it's not popular because it's boring. Playing boring nitwit games is not commendable le oldfag behavior.

>>715918965


all the classes in last epoch feel so off for me when i played

>>715920187
It's had full offline for like a year now.

>>715920187
Yeah, you can launch it in true offline mode.

>>715919735
Grim Dawn has some sick lore. It's a lot more nuanced than that.
>https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/grim-dawn-lore-notes-pdf-and-ebook-epub-new-update-1-1-9-0/50203

How is playable is the game on a controller?

>>715909805 (OP)
I wish there was like an offline Diablo-like with anime character designs instead of edgy western grimdark gore.

>>715920372
it heavily depends on your build, overall it feels like shit though, targeting and menuing sucks

>>715920386
Why do you want to play an offline diablo game at all? It's like vampire survivors at that point.

>>715920198
This so much this. Play PoE it's so fun. Stop playing Grim Dawn it's boring bro u fucking slavs. Play PoE. Buy my chaos orbs pls...

>>715909805 (OP)
You posted it

>>715920372
Pretty comfortable despite not being designed around it.

>ctrl+f wolcen
>0 results
its over...

>>715920506
haha...

>>715920434
How does flipping an online switch change the minute to minute gameplay?

>>715909805 (OP)
Grim dawn is the only arpg on the market that can keep my attention. Wish there was better, but only thing that can surpass grim dawn is the upcoming expansion for it.

What second mastery should I pick for necro purely thematically?
Occultist and the other common options seem a bit of an odd fit.

>>715920506
One of the most successful vidya scams in recent history. Devs just took the money and ran, no updates, no DLC

>>715920506
Wolcen had really good titty armour with high heels, so I'll always give it props for that.

>>715920506
the builds and items are just not interesting, which is the core of arpgs

>>715920614
what kind of build are you going for? blaster? summoner?

>>715920506
>Scamcen
Yeah I wonder why

>>715920614
Soldier pairs extremely well with Necro on that basis as well as mechanically.

>try GD since it has a necromancer class in it
>has summons based as fuck
>you either all go in all summons and do fuck all yourself or else don't use summons due to gear

sigh
I just want to recapture the D2 necromancer with you getting to buff and debuff shit while your army fights

>>715920506
>paid 10 bucks for it
>a few months later it was available for only 4 bucks
fuck me, though the game is good for one or two playthroughs, just the last act with the hq upgrading is shit

>>715920559
The genius bit about diablo 2 is the way runewords function. Endgame is people endless burning runes to roll for perfect stats, so there's a robust economy to play around with. PoE does this with orbs, which are similiarly used for crafting, but in a much more complex way. If you take away that element there's no thought behind your actions and all gear that doesn't directly benefit your character becomes worthless. It's basically stripping away 95% of player input. I wouldn't play OSRS offline either, that would be terribly boring.

>>715920559
Some "people" who play those games can't play offline or singleplayer because they don't feel "value". They're grinding but it's all pointless for them because you can cheat in singleplayer. The need gaas to play those games.

>>715920614
For me it's Nightblade.

>>715920771
>I just want to recapture the D2 necromancer with you getting to buff and debuff shit while your army fights
That is how it works though. You bind devotion procs to your debuffs and make sure they have 100% uptime.

>>715920771
But you can do that, pick either occultist or shaman as your second mastery

>>715920771
Occultist specifically has a lot of debuff abilities that pair well with Necro.

>>715920771
>getting to buff and debuff shit while your army fights
Are you playing a different Grim Yawn than everyone else? That pretty much describes the summoner experience.

>>715920771
That is probably my biggest complaint about GD's gearing. You have to all in on one type of damage on your gear and convert into that damage type.

Though at the same time, being able to convert something's damage type into something it was never meant to be IS pretty funny. I did a Cold Aether ray build once. Wasn't bad.

>>715919429
>check grim dawn concurrent players
>2500
again, what are you even on about retard? This is a video game board. people talk and discuss video games no matter their age. Are you retarded?

>>715921008
for me it's lightning doom bolt, it even changes the animation to a blue lightning bolt

>>715920784
The "value" is the weight behind your actions, and the inherent worth of every single drop. Everything in PoE has potential for progression, maps can be modified to increase drop chances of certain items, every drop has X percent chance of being something else, every base gear has potential to be something better, every stat roll increases or decreases the worth of an item. You constantly have something to think about. When I play grim dawn the only time I'm actually planning is when I go back to town after soullessly doing a bunch of MMO style quests I don't care about and sorting through my pack to vendor the 99% garbage drops. I don't even have to think about where my talent points are going since most of it is like "drop 20 points into the talent to drop 20 points in the next talent it unlocks". It's all so boring and stupid.

>>715920780
>onimai avatarfag without trash opinion today
PoE has too much currency and bloat though. The system was perfect in Diablo 2. f2p was a mistake.

>>715921103
You're a gambling addict.

>>715921176
Wooh gambling is a sin!

>>715920780
>>715921103
i don't care about economy or ladder. played diablo 2 for probably 1k+ hours never even touched multiplayer, I just make offline hardcore characters every once in a while, same with grim dawn, and they're games i can actually experiment and eventually beat the endgame on my own, rather than look at spreadsheets and guides

tldr don't care about your gay economy or ladder

>>715919872
it does. Grim dawn is not a game. It's a single passthrough time waster. There's nothing serious or timeless about it. Even when it came out it paled in comparison to Titan Quest

what about lost ark? tried getting into it, but got bored

>>715920780
None of this has anything to do with minute to minute gameplay, besides maybe deciding what maps to clear.
>If you take away that element there's no thought behind your actions and all gear that doesn't directly benefit your character becomes worthless. It's basically stripping away 95% of player input
It sounds like you consider the actual action portion of these games to be worthless.

>>715921210
i don't give a shit about sin or whatnot but gambling makes people do stupid stuff, always

>>715921103
It's a video game. A hobby. If gameplay is boring you just don't play it. Everything in EVE online has better value and impact than in your favorite games. Your skills are useless. Maybe you just have gambling addiction (you can satisfy it in EVE too).

>>715920608
what do you like about grim dawn? The builds are incredibly boring, everything hinges on proccing shit through constellations. The animations and graphics are complete trash, there's no seasonal content, there's no competitive play, no grouping, no community aspect. It's meh

>>715920780
Your dopamine receptors are fried

>>715921176
Manipulating probability is the gameplay of PoE. It's something you constantly think about and engage with. What is the game play of grim dawn? What part of it is mentally stimulating? You're free to slog through PoE and just trade orbs for gear, but a player that engages with the crafting and probability manipulation will progress 100x faster, and that's rewarding. It's rewarding the player for thinking. Diablolikes don't demand enough motor control from the player to be interesting as action games, is it really enough to drag gear into your equipment slot to see if your DPS goes up or down in Grim Dawn? Are retards really satisfied with doing that for 100 hours?

yeah it's great. mostly hardcore and i usually hit 100 and do everything except the super bosses. i particularly enjoy the community season mod and just started with grimmillion but don't like how much clutter with that mod there is so far, but we'll see. very very very excited for the xpac.

>>715921232
>they're games i can actually experiment and eventually beat the endgame on my own, rather than look at spreadsheets and guides
You can and will beat PoE on your own, with your own build, it just takes hundreds of hours because it's an incredibly complex game that takes time to learn. And that's a good thing. Builds shouldn't be a literal straight line on a talent tree where you level up 100 times and pick like 7 whole talents.

>>715921463
Why can't you understand some people just want to play a game for what it is and not engage in a rat race? I think you might be actually autistic. Your arguments are retarded too because they apply to every other singleplayer

>why beat Resident Evil bro what's the point
>why beat Expedition 33 bro there's no online frfr

>>715921463
>interesting as action games
They're not interesting. What's the point in all action? Why you don't just kill everything in one hit? Why can you die? It's pointless. I play with infinite HP and 1shot kill cheats and they're all boring.

I don't play ARPGs to autistically plan out my item crafting. I play them to autistically grind mob packs and get the dopamine hit from getting an item upgrade.

>>715921616
even if that's true I don't play online-only games or games with microtransactions out of principle

>>715921645
>Why can't you understand some people just want to play a game for what it is
I'm asking you what part of the game is "playing".
>just fuck off and let me play slop for 1000 hours
Isn't a good enough justification for making hundreds of threads.
>why beat Resident Evil bro what's the point
RE has a literal scoring system because it's a REAL video game. No idea why people would play E33, that's a movie.

>>715921645
/a/ and /v/ were doomed the moment onimai avatarfag discovered existence of 4chan.

Been having a ton of fun with my demolitionist/ inquisitor build. Blackwater cocktail is amazing and inquisitor really buffs up your M1 duel pistols to an insane degree when paired with some other demolitionist buffs.

Way more fun than my Occult/ Necromancer pet build was. Since this one can actually do damage and kill bosses.

Really need to give up the explorers hat, chest, and pants though, but those exp bonuses are just lovely.

>>715921910
>the moment onimai avatarfag discovered existence of 4chan.
2005?

>>715921845
>RE has a literal scoring system because it's a REAL video game
What's the point in scoring system when I can download save file? Or cheat scores? Why should I care about them? Just numbers.

for me, it's Drox Operative 2

When is Titan Quest 2 releasing? Biggest mistake I made with TQ1 was going Earth/Warfare I should really go back and pick something that isn't painfully boring

Why isn't the expansion out yet. I suppose I should just be happy it's getting more content.
Likewise, where the fuck is Titan Quest 2.

>>715921992
2024.
Watch him saying he's 37 yo NEET and 4chan oldfgag next post.

>>715921910
oh shit is it the same guy? he always shits up JRPG threads too

>>715921463
You are just treating this genre as Vampire Survivors with more complex numbers. POE is your Balatro and I won't take it from you.

>>715922030
>What's the point in scoring system when I can download save file?
Because it's an obstacle to overcome, that's the point of games. Grim Dawn doesn't have obstacles, only rewards, which aren't very rewarding without having to fight for them. Someone who plays Grim Dawn can easily make a perfect character and never die on their very first run. This is IMPOSSIBLE in PoE, this requires hundreds of hours of experience and no guide will help you. There's no learning in Grim Dawn, if I'm not learning or getting better, well, I'm not truly gaming.

>>715922116
>>715922130
'Coming Soon'
Grimlore better not fuck it up I swear to God...

>>715922283
>Because it's an obstacle to overcome,
It's not impossible obstacle because I can just download save or cheat my scores. Pointless shit. Learning how to code or draw or play piano is obstacle.

>>715922182
>POE is your Balatro and I won't take it from you.
I don't like Balatro because there's too little joker diversity and the game pretty quickly devolves into one card or flush builds. It very much feels like an autopilot game like grim dawn. I was pretty dissapointed after all the hype to find out it was just a retard game. I have yet to play a deck builder that doesn't suck ass.

>>715922283
You haven't even played enough GD to get to the first act boss. Warden Krieg can EASILY kill even a prepared player.

You can absolutely follow a build guide in PoE and never fuck up outside of very specific maps/bosses. That's what 95a% of the PoE playerbase does.

I can't get into PoE at all, I'm not autistic enough for the gem and slot system.

>>715922116
Shoud have gone warfare/nature

>put down your banner
>buff yourself and your wolves to godhood
>your wolves howl and buff themselves and you even more
>ascend
that's the stuff right there

>>715922449
I already learned to play piano when I was a teenager and I coded in python (lol) for awhile, these things simply aren't interesting. You should play Talos Principle if you want to understand why people are drawn to games, and what seperates someone with agency from an NPC executing scripted routines. Pro-tip: You're living like an NPC and people like you are in the game who ask the same questions.

>>715922643
That might be fun, I know the game is pretty slow compared to its contemporaries but man was it a fucking slog even considering that. Having pets might make it more enjoyable at least.

>>715922756
Shut the fuck UP you conceited piece of shit.

stop replying to the avatarfag

>>715922572
If you don't care about a game enough to learn it then it's not for you. You should seek out games you care about enough to learn, not settle for games that don't require learning.

>>715922153
8@ failed us...he left for a month, but came back. Their 10 posters probably fed up with his shit takes and opinions. This is the end.

Why are stunjacks so shit and is the thermite mine any better?

Why does like every class get power from some deity?
Even fucking soldier and demolitionist

>>715909805 (OP)
>What's your favorite Diablo clone
Path o
>that's not Path of Exile?
Motherfucker.
Now this is probably 95% nostalgia and the game wasn't actually good, but I really enjoyed the 1998 "Akuma: Demon Spawn" back in the day. It came in one of those shitty 100 game collections.
What's unique about it is that you control 3 characters at the same time. Or two, if you leave the mage behind in the city like I did. Fuck that guy.

>>715922547
>You can absolutely follow a build guide in PoE and never fuck up outside of very specific maps/bosses
Nope, there are too many minute adjustments in endgame, you have to understand how to transition builds and what levers youre strong enough to oull on, and end game builds are modular since you need to alter your skill points and gems to match your current level of gear, otherwise you'll stagnate and have to grind in one way for a long time instead of rapidly improving. People who are good actually don't use guides for endgame, they generally just poke around on poe.ninja to see what people at similar levels of progression are doing, and even that can only guide what gear and skills your aiming for, not where and how to get orbs efficiently, and certainly not what to pick up and what to craft.

>>715922756
>I already learned to play piano when I was a teenager and I coded in python (lol) for awhile
I can code Hello World in C++ and press few keys too.
>Talos Principle
Movie game. Walking simulator. Pointless.

>>715919190
He's just trolling. Acting like a retard is his streaming persona.

>>715922853
Less bad posts, more playing talos principle

>>715923159
>People who are good actually don't use guides for endgame, they generally just poke around on poe.ninja to see what people at similar levels of progression are doing
lol

>>715923182
>Movie game. Walking simulator. Pointless.
It's a puzzle game that asks you to puzzle out why you're bothering to play it.

>>715920506
People only pretended to like that one in the hopes of bullying the PoE devs into casualizing their game.

>>715923159
Have you never followed a league starter before? They're about as safe and braindead as it gets and are made to hold your hand till like early yellows. Most people don't even make it to yellows dude.

>>715923258
Fuck Croteam.

>>715923318
>puzzles
Solved them after watching youtube.

>>715923332
>Have you never followed a league starter before
Yeah I haven't need them in years, how is getting to yellows beating the game lol? For me getting to yellow maps is just goofing around and trying to do whacky shit on a budget since I already know what fundamentally works.
>Most people don't even make it to yellows dude
Then I guess it's not as easy as people think it is

>>715923159
come the fuck on dude you can open twitch right now and and probably find some braindead streamer roastie following a build guide to boot speedclearing maps

>>715923434
You can't solve the meaning of life by watching YouTube, by looking up the answers you're only failing the game's main puzzle

>>715923573
>probably find some braindead streamer roastie following a build guide to boot speedclearing maps
That roastie put in effort to learn the game. Not you though.

>>715919735
Diablo 2 is still the only ARPG with a story that you actually pay attention to, good music, memorable characters etc. I don't even know what the ''lore'' of PoE and GD is other than everyone is depressed

>>715909805 (OP)
Torchlight 2. The mods lift it up, and the art style, while others hate it, made it able to withstand showing 'age'.

I went back to try out Diablo 2 Resurrected, and I wished some qol stuff were added in as optional. Plus the graphics, while beautiful seem to take up too much space.

>>715923610
>You can't solve the meaning of life by watching YouTube
Just read /v/.

>>715912334
9/11

>>715923730
PoE is about freeing slaves who then summon a murder god, and then you run around killing slaves. It's pretty hilarious.

>>715909805 (OP)
idk both Grim Quest and Titan Dawn are equally good
>>715915059
too expensive

>>715909805 (OP)
divine/beyond divinity

>>715923703
having a guide open on your second monitor or looking up what mechanics do is not learning, in PoE it's just something mandatory if you want to actually beat the game, because the game punishes you for trying things yourself (at least they let you respec now)

>inb4 just play for 500 hours you'll eventually figure out yourself bro

it was hilarious seeing streamers bitch and moan about how they actually had to pay attention to boss fights in PoE2 and how they couldn't just fly across maps clearing everything though

>>715917135
most retarded take on /v/

>>715924081
Ummm that never happened because I said it never happened.

>>715924081
>having a guide open on your second monitor or looking up what mechanics do is not learning
That's not going to work and you're going to hit obstacles. That's why this video exists
https://youtu.be/DE9VOpo8REo
Guides are for complete beginners and you will hit an obstacle that forces you to engage with and learn the game.

>>715919735
>caring about story in a Diablo game
lol. Literally the ONLY good story in a diablo clone is Van Helsing, and that's because it's the only Diablo game where there's an actual story involving the character you're playing as. Every other game it's
>random chucklefuck NPC points you in some random direction "hurr durr kill them all"
>you kill them all
>very good, you can now continue to the next area where you will kill them all OR you're just the adventurer's equivalent of a janitor cleaning up trash mobs so the REAL main character NPC that the story is based on warps in to do actually progress the story and point you in the next direction
Path of Exile goes so far with this kind of "story" that it wraps all the way around to having comical ascended murderhobos (much like yourself) as main NPC characters (but not really your murderhobo, you're still just some retard killing random shit for power and no other justifying reasons)

>>715920463
bad at game
how do you have 3x the hours but less achievements

>>715924460
>but not really your murderhobo, you're still just some retard killing random shit for power and no other justifying reasons
I like that PoE is just being a crazy asshole that kills gods for a living. Like you literally become a JRPG protagonist in endgame and just duke it out with gods and shit.

Why aren't there more Asian ARPGs (that aren't MMOs) anyways? It seems really fucking obvious.

>>715924617
Asians are too soulless to make good arpgs

>>715924617
PoE cornered the market, the Chinese version of PoE is a gacha that let's you roll for waifus that loot gear for you.

>>715921828
based
fuck pooetards

>>715924586
>"man, I wanna try out
>start new game
>play for 20-30 hours
>get bored
>repeat

>>715909805 (OP)
>that's not Path of Exile
Does that imply popularity or quality for Path of Exile? Should I get into it since unlike the implied lesser clones its actually free?

>>715923573
>come the fuck on dude you can open twitch right now and and probably find some braindead streamer roastie following a build guide to boot speedclearing maps
I just checked and nope, this isn't happening. You're wrong.

>>715924867
Literally me in every game

>>715919190
RTwP

>>715924737
>>715924704
Grim

>>715924873
PoE is popular because it's free and it had quality once upon a time. Not anymore though, get into PoE2 instead

>>715925024
Dawn

>>715924586
I only play Hardcore so I'll get to Elite or Ultimate and get one-shot by something I've never seen before

>>715925024
No, no, no; If you want an asian ARPG, look to the likes of Nioh or Stranger of Paradise or Khazan.

>>715924873
Path of Exile is the most popular ARP and has 1000x the userbase, with around 49 million registered accounts if I remember correctly and an estimate 1 million daily users across all clients at league start. Make of that what you will. Everyone should play all the way through at least once, there is nothing else remotely like it.

>>715925149
>always online
>have to pay for stash tabs

ehh nevermind

>>715925149
WTF? I'm buying all chests and PoE skins now. My credit card is moving on its own!

I dropped 8000+ hours into Path of Exile, and had multiple challenge league totems fully completed by the time I dropped it - Tencent acquisition around Bestiary league kneecapped my motivation to drop money on supporter packs, and as they bought more shares, so too did my interest decrease.
Those niggas sold their heart and soul, I have no respect for them, and they have infinite money backing them, so they don't need me anymore. Can't stand GGG on principle of being huge giga-corp sellouts, that actually spread their cheeks for cash, it's nightmarishly fucked up.

>>715925297
Yeah, it's secretly a $45 game with a 200hour demo.

>>715925149
This includes the chinese bots which are roughly 2/3rds of it daily

>>715925149
1 million flies can't be wrong after all

>>715911661
if you want mmo like kit with combos and rotations you can try Last Sleepoch.

>>715925898
don't the chinese have their own client?

>>715911869
I cant be the only one who rubs his nips while waiting for the game to load

>>715920506
I am a wolcel

>>715922116
could be worse. I went spirit/dream and got completely cucked. A good 1/3 of the game is immune to vitality damage lmao
just hoping they are not retarded enough to keep immunities in the sequel

>>715927232
Man at least D2 waited until like Hell mode before just outright cucking you if you were going like Fire Druid or Fire Sorc, I couldn't imagine being cucked like that during just the normal campaign.

>>715927232
Titan Quest is just fucked in terms of how it works. Like every build I make ends up being absolute dogshit, between resistances, immunities, ginormous recharge delays, etc. And then I finally decide to be a munchkin and play Conqueror and it stomps the entire game from level ~5 all the way to the end. The scaling ridiculous.
>battle standard gives as much damage as a top tier, end game weapon
>battle rage also gives as much damage as a top tier, end game weapon
>shield passives are basically just damage multipliers since they make you quick hit twice with both your weapon and shield
>massive damage bonus from crits, which are a melee exclusive feature
>like 4 different speed bonuses
>colossus form, which gives you a speed "penalty" actually gives you the biggest movement speed bonus in the entire game and the 6 minute recharge delay doesn't matter since you've already killed the boss you're farming by the time the duration runs out

>>715928019
my main problem with titan quest is how shit the drops are. i know you're supposed to grind in these games but i would literally go 10-15 levels without a single good drop

>>715920614
i went shaman for a vitality/life-steal build

>>715922116
>>715922410
Hold up, TQ2 is going to be a thing?

>>715929423
It's been going to be a thing for a while now, multiple dev videos and gameplay demos too.

>>715928820
Titan Quest just has extremely fucked up drop distribution. 99.9% of the game is killing trash mobs, yet they drop no loot. All of the good gear is either bought from a vendor, cheesed from purple quest monsters, or farmed off a red-name boss. As a melee character, it's almost always best to use the strongest Veteran's weapon you can buy from a vendor, even a shitty mid tier Veteran's that is acts old can be better than the far majority of """legendary""" weapons. INT builds are just fucked for gear until mid-Epic and Legendary, and then all of a sudden a fountain of overpowered gear pours into your inventory. And then there's Stonebinder's Cuffs, which is a really headscratcher, taking 30 minutes to farm despite being hyper ultra god tier even when you don't factor in that it ALSO gets a prefix and a suffix and can be enhanced.

>>715920771
There's builds like Necromancer with the blood knight set that have player scaled pets. There's also the Reaper constellation for player stat scaled skeletons.

>>715920771
You honestly probably didn't get far enough to get into the constellation stuff which really is a big part of your player power

>>715929423
Made by a completely different team, they're just using the IP for recognition.

>>715930112
Well yeah, the TQ team is making Grim Dawn.

>>715930218
Nah there's like 1 guy at Crate that worked on TQ, they licensed the engine out but its mostly different people. Still a pretty small team.

>>715930424
Really? Figured it was at least like 3-5 of them.

>>715911661
I've had builds that literally just left click and builds that use a whole skill bar
There's good skills you can get from items that take zero skill point investment, even shit you could potentially use as a spam attack between your bigger shit from your actual class.

>>715928820
Also, TQ drop rates are insanely generous for the genre. Some BIS gear has a 1% drop rate from a boss that you can kill ~once per minute. The moment you get to Lernean Hydra, you pretty much win the game because he's both extremely easy to kill and drops a lot of the strongest gear in the game.

TQ is uniquely fucked too in terms of difficulty progression, no fucking clue what they were thinking with the end of act 3 and all of act 4 in normal difficulty being far more difficult than anything else in the entire game.

>>715930634
Interdasting

>>715909805 (OP)
Of the ones I've played, I'd rank them like this

>great tier
PoE1
Grim Dawn
Last Epoch

>meh tier
Torchlight 2

>fuck off tier
>PoE2

>>715930424
>Still a pretty small team
How many people on Crate, do you reckon? Cause they're still doing Grim Dawn, and Farthest Frontier, and supposedly an RTS in pre-dev, and building a new engine. That's a lot of plates for a small team to juggle.

>>715930903
Not counting voice work and translating there's only like 20 people on the credits for their games

>>715920614
Shaman
Embrace death's part of nature and harness the true power of the cycle

>>715909805 (OP)
It's extremely lazy that the final boss for the cthon faction was reused to be some swamp monster in one of the later dlcs. These fuckers couldn't even bother to give it a palette swap, it looks exactly the same. Other than that, the game is good.

>>715930903
>This is the first time in the company’s history where we are concurrently developing 4 different projects, and we overestimated our own capabilities
From the recent "state of the expansion" post. They also have/had at least three guys working on a survival horror game.

>>715924867
I have like 5 builds I'd say are 'done' and a few that are half leveled, kinda just waiting for the expansion so I don't burn out on it though

>>715931182
That's honestly crazy. Love Crate and wish them the best, and I always supported those loyalist packs. Hope to see a GD2 in my current lifetime.

>>715931182
>Hiring another 10 developers (that’s +50% company size, by the way)
Yeah they're small.
>>715931458
>Reality is, Farthest Frontier has already blown past our expectations for Early Access with over 1.5 million copies sold. It has crushed Grim Dawn’s numbers in the same timeframe. We are financially secure, and most importantly, we are steadily growing.
We're good on the GD expansion and hopefully GD2.

So what class to add in with my necromancer to debuff the fuck out of everything

>>715931684
occultist

>>715931684
Conjurer, lategame you can double up on the Spiritbinder Glyph rings to convert all your pets to pure Vitality damage
And spam Hellhound summons to use its death explosion offensively every time its resummoned

>>715931684
Occultist (Debuffs + minions)
Shaman (Defensive buffs + minions)
whatever that lame elementalist class is, i heard they have some auras that apply to minions that are actually really good (this is cringe however)
I prefer occultist for flavor - Blood of Dreg being a party heal on CD to give your guys a 20% hp boost, some hp regen, and other goodies.

>>715931684
Shaman for swarm

>>715931930
Fuck I mean occultist
Conjurer is one of the class combo names

POE2 is utter trash compared to last epoch and you're a fucking retard if you think otherwise

>>715931458
>We have developed a new engine internally that takes advantage of modern tech without being saddled with 20 years of bloat, which will power our upcoming RTS, and Grim Dawn 2 beyond it.
23 days ago. NEAT

>>715931458
>Love Crate and wish them the best
Same.
Surviving without a publisher must be rather scary, hopefully they will manage to keep going without those parasites.

>>715909805 (OP)
Didn't they announce the new xp literally 2 fucking years ago
what's taking so long

>>715920506
ran like absolute shit on my pc, felt like microstutter all the time.

>>715931458
dev just said on the steam forums GD2 will start pre-production next year

>>715932450
they said in their website that they keep adding more features. and they're not in a rush because they don't have a deadline, so they will keep adding shit until they're satisfied

>>715912261
soulstone survivors and brotato are really great
be my horde and jotunnslayer are about average but they're still early access so who knows how they'll end up, good for a day or two

>>715932450
https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/fangs-of-asterkarn-development-update-june-2025/146114

>adding in the ability to upgrade epics into legendaries
>Won't be all at first, but it's something they can introduce to other epics in the future
Have no fears, we've got updates for years.

A friend of mine with 400 hours in PoE said he quit because the endgame was way too meta restricted. How true is that and how easy to follow the meta is the game?

>>715933690
>the meta is the game
yes

>>715933690
>the endgame was way too meta restricted
Current league(see pic):
>highest class usage is 12%
>highest gem usage is 9%
So objectively no, it has a more build diversity than any other ARPG in existence. Will it give you a free win for doing literally anything without thinking like every other ARPG? Definitely no.

>>715932798
Why does he keep updating this moldy garbage instead of making a new game? When the latest expac releases this 3/10 indie game is going to cost over $80, more than a AAA game.

>>715933690
>400 hours
Noob doesn't know shit.

>>715934860
lol

>>715935250
>PFFFFT LOL HE JUST PROVED ME COMPLETELY WRONG HOW DARE HE

>>715935297
lol
not even the guy you were replying to

>>715934860
48% of the playerbase using just 8 skills (out of literal hundreds) is actually not very diverse.

Path of Exile lost me after I found out drops were balanced around trading. Also got sick of fags in hubs covering the entire screen with their $500 cosmetics

>>715935432
That line of reasoning is always retarded, because it implies that the game would be better if the they removed the bottom 90% of abilities. Which is retarded.
This is also not the entire payerbase, but only the top 10k characters.

>>715935481
>muh drops
People reliably full-clear the game in solo self found within a week on a single life every single season.

Why does everyone always fall back to Diablo II

>>715935481
>Path of Exile lost me after I found out drops were balanced around trading.
PoE drops are balanced around crafting. Like Diablo 2.

>>715935606
>the top 0.1% of NEETs who spend weeks theorycrafting and using third party tools to optimize their builds
>people

But

which Diablo clone has the best narrative

>>715935535
Or they could raise up the bottom 90% of abilities

>>715935675
crafting instead of trading is just intentionally handicapping yourself.

>>715935432
>48% of the playerbase using just 8 skills
There are 50 or so main skills in usage, and all of those have different support gems which can make even more builds. Everyone on that website is in endgame, so all of them work.

>>715935786
So... Like Diablo 2?
>>715935742
They do regularly.

>>715935721
PoE1 is unironically about not trusting brown people.

>>715918425
>real gameplay and challenge
The majority of players over level and use nothing but strength and vitality. Souls games are a joke if your health bar takes up over half your screen and you have fifteen health pots.

>>715918425
>if you want real gameplay and challenge go play souls games or devil may cry instead of your lootclicker
Souls games are pretty casual. You could have at least said spelunky 2 or something. PoE is a thinkin nigga's game.

>>715936605
the only thinking you do is thinking of which build you're going to follow
but yes spelunky or any other mechanically heavy game is harder than poe

>>715924264
>watching videos that tell you how to play the game you're currently playing.
I fucking can't with people these days.

>>715936754
>the only thinking you do is thinking of which build you're going to follow
Nope, see >>715924264

Where is Titan Quest 2?

>>715937227
Soon :)

>>715909805 (OP)
PSO

TQ2 better have mod support or at least skimpy armor on par with TQ1 when you use nudity cheat.

>>715936836
You mean the one crying about people watching build guides? That kinda proves my point though. You either copy someone smarter than you or you brute force through hundreds of hours of testing and math. There's no “moment-to-moment” thinking past dodging bricked maps and filtering junk loot. It's spreadsheet simulator with action elements.

>>715938243
go on...

Really a shame what happened to Torchlight, doomed to being a shitty p2w mobile game

Why do ARPG fags go ape if someone wants WASD controls in these games?

>>715940661
Boomer brain.

>>715938495
>You mean the one crying about people watching build guides?
It literally explains why you can't rely on a build. The math is unavoidable. Strategizing your progression is unavoidable. You will hit a brick wall and only you can get over it, no one can carry you over that obstacle.

>>715911661
Don't listen to any retards here, thats exactly how grim yawn works.

>>715940575
At least the women were hot.

>>715940661
All
Purpose
Extreme?

>>715923061
Put some points in it and found some gear that increases its lifespan by 12 seconds. Absolutely goated when mixed with blackwater cocktail holy shit.

>>715923061
Quickjacks were very powerful during the early access, but got somewhat nerfed. They are still viable, but you need some equipment to pull it off.
Thermite Mines are very good for RR. If you deal elemental, aether or chaos damage, you should take them. They were wonky in the past, but now you just place them instead of throwing them.

>>715928019
TQ has some hard specialization issues. you could make a dude who could 1-shot the beefiest bosses in the game, but with his damage being completely single-target he was an insane chore to play.

Division 2

>>715943497
Hush now, that's the forbidden fruit.

>>715930617
That chart is wrong, Egypt is easier than Greece.

>>715911661
It depends on the skill. There are some that are one point wonders, like in Diablo 2, where you don't really need to put more than one point in them such as Holy Shield or Vigor. There's also a balancing act between the mana costs and damage that investing skill points into a skill offers, sometimes it's better to hold off on going all in for that reason. And you can quickly reset any investment instantly for very little cost, so experimentation is quite effortless.

>>715944305
>It depends on the skill.
It really doesn't.

>>715944639
You don't need more than 8 points in Blood of Dreeg, don't be ridiculous. With + to skills from items, you won't need more than 1 most likely.

diablo 4 is a technical far superior than anything else on the market but it just lacks content. it has good bones for scalability tho. poe2 doesn't have that yet unfortunately.

>>715944981
BoD gives flat damage and OA in addition to healing. It's worth maximizing. Aspect of the Guardian on the other hand is usually fine with one point.

>>715945206
I personally did not use BoD for anything other than minion healing, because the flat acid damage is rather pathetic given the investment required in addition to lacking any resistance shred and the OA boost isn't significant enough either.

I really enjoyed Grim Dawn up until the point at which the next tier of difficulty became a game of "what color is that spot on the floor that's killing me this time?"
Bonus points if you have abilities that cover them up too

It was still a pretty sweet ride up until that point. I liked pairing classes that made no sense at first glance because their damage types don't line up, and the constellation system rewarded being an explorer with more skills which was awesome

>>715945313
My Witch Hunter for example has maxed it and was pretty viable. I might have to redistribute some points into Vulnerability due to the recent changes.
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/JVl75052

>>715945537
I believe you, it just didn't fit my build, since I was playing a minion focused character at the time. That said, that's a pretty cool character, I might steal your build, kek.

>>715945803
It's a fun build. Could use a few tweaks due to recent changes.
I miss the old Chaos Strike.
That said, Minions greatly benefit from flat damage and OA, since they get enormous percentile boosts on both.